Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / The Power of Alignment: Culture, Values, and Growth Mindset’ with Roger Brosch, CEO of Foster Denovo

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The Power of Alignment: Culture, Values, and Growth Mindset’ with Roger Brosch, CEO of Foster Denovo · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: And today on the Financial Planner Life podcast, I'm joined by Roger Brosch.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: He is the CEO of Foster De Novo.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We talk about his career journey, what it's really like to be a CEO and what is the secret source to building the best management team.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We talk about high performance mindsets.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: We talk about culture and values and how they must align if you're going to join a company like Foster De Novo.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: We also talk about acquisitions and what are the opportunities out there right now within the financial planning profession and for you newbies.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Roger shares those top tips and what you should do within your first year of being a financial planner.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Roger, thanks for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: This is a talent attraction partnership and we're here today with you, the CEO of Foster De Novo, to talk about you, your career journey and the business, the vision, where you're going, where you've been and why really someone should join you right now at this time.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: So, Roger, for those who don't know you, can you just introduce yourself please?
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I can.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my name is Roger Brosch.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I'm the CEO of Foster De Novo.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I started the business 17 years ago.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I'm a financial services lifer, so I've been in the sector for over 30 years.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I live in Wimbledon Village.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I've done for 30 years Family man, so married to, where we're four kids all sort of late teens, early twenties now, so just entering into their careers.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: A big sports fan, I was born in Sutton, coldfield in the Midlands, so, for my sins, I'm an Aston Villa fan, which has been traumatic up until recently.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I went to school in Leicester, so I'm a Leicester Tigers fan.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Rugby is one of my passions and so, yeah, that's a little bit about me.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I've coached Rugby, I love my cycling, I love my skiing, enjoy travelling, so yeah, brilliant.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It's been a really exciting time for Foster De Novo over the last few years.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I mean Crestline making an investment.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I think you've made three acquisitions in the last three months.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Every time I look on social media you seem to be out there.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I think professional advisor, you're in the magazines you've got your own column.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: From the outside, looking in, roger, it seems to me like this is an exciting time for Foster De Novo.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Is that the case?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: What's going on?
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very exciting.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: So we've been around for a while but we've grown very steadily up to this point, and when we went to market a couple of years ago because of the infrastructure we'd managed to build the propositions we've been able to deliver to clients award winning we felt it was the right time for us to look for an investor and go on an accelerated growth journey.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: So that's what we've done and the business has been transformed in the last 24 months.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: On the back of that investment.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: The internal PBO has practiced buyouts that we've done the three acquisitions which you kindly mentioned, which have all come relatively close together, but we've been working on those for probably the last 12 months.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I mean there's quite a high step about the business.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: At the moment, the financial results are looking very strong, but I think, as importantly, the people here who, because they share in the value we create for a stakeholder community, are really excited about where we are in the future.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about that stakeholder community then.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: How do the employees and partners share within that?
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: So culturally, for us it's really important we have a focus here where we look after our people first, and if we look after our people superbly, they'll look after their clients our clients superbly as well, and so we tend to find then the results naturally flow.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: And what we do culturally is we run a stakeholder community that enables everybody, through options, the opportunity to invest personally and through a growth share scheme, to have a small stake in the business.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: So every single person where they joined yesterday they've been here 10, 15 years since we formed is invested in our future.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: So the alignment to purpose that brings, the energy it gives to help us achieve the success that we desire, then all of that feels as though it's pulling in the same direction.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Everybody pulling in the same direction, feeling part of the team, would have a fantastic time to join at that point then, so anybody joining this business now can become a stakeholder within it, Absolutely so.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: The growth share scheme when we did the deal with Creslin, we put 20% of the equity of the business into a growth share scheme and that is for every new joiner to participate in and feel as though they are helping us build and grow but sharing the value that we create, and it's a really powerful motivator.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: But it's also a very successful way of aligning our efforts and our vision and support for the future.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Since actually implementing that, have you seen a change in performance?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Do people feel motivated by that?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, we've always been a stakeholder business so, to be fair, it's not something that's new to foster day and over per se.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: We started our original share schemes back in 2005 when we founded the business.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: But I think new joiners are surprised that, bearing in mind how long the business has been around, that there is still that equity participation available.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So I think it's a differentiator.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: There's no doubt alongside a number of other factors, but in particular it's one that I think surprises but really interests people.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: And probably until we did the investment with Cresslin, people used to look at their share certificate every now and again and probably didn't really attach the huge amount of value to it.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: But since the investment, now they can see the growth trajectory everybody has.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Their share certificate is probably viewed, if not daily, on a regular basis certainly.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: So that whole participation piece, the team ethic, the sort of adding value back to those that are helping us grow, all makes sense.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's usually motivating.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: That would motivate me to be fair.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Fantastic, I love that.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Very welcome to be a part of it.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Roger, so you're the CEO.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Let's just kind of give our listeners a little bit of an insight into what a CEO does, what it means to you to be the CEO of Foster Dinovo.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, a lot of people ask me that question and that does mean you've got to really work hard to think about it.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: So, look, I've got a great team around me.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: One of the key factors of our growth and success is the quality of people are brought to the business.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I always wanted to bring people who were better than me, that challenged my thinking and our thinking and make us a better business because of it.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: So the quality of people we have around us mean I can focus most of my time and attention on the strategy, strategic implementation.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: At the moment, that focus is obviously leading to the sort of vision and strategy of the group, but in particular, focusing on acquisitions, so selling the sizzle to those outside about the great business we are, the values we believe in, why they may be appropriate and work for others, obviously working hard with our relationship with CressLine and to external parties.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: So as much as I'm internally focused, I have a lot of external responsibilities as well.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: So the CEO you know it's very much a leadership role, but it is also about plotting and planning for the future.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Fantastic, so a very active CEO, and I also love the fact that you just said sell the sizzle.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: That's definitely something I say a lot.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Sell the sizzle, not the sausage, and sell it to Helena.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: On the phone quite recently she goes oh, roger says that as well, so I'm really glad we got a sound bite of the fact that you say sizzle High performance.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: You strike me as a very high performance focus, individual High performance mindset.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: You've built a fantastic business here.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: It's going from strength to strength.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: When it comes to building high performance teams around you, can you give us some insight in how to do that?
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Because there's a lot of aspiring CEOs out there and there's people that are running their businesses and they're hoping to kind of build it, but we all know it's the people you surround yourself with.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So any hints and tips about how to build a high performance team around you, roger?
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you've got to be really clear on the values and the things you believe in.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: So culture is created from values and value clarity is absolutely paramount.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: So I'd encourage people to be very clear on the values, write them down, share them with others, test them to make sure that they are those values that others would believe in, to make sure they're robustly challenged.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: And once those are understood, you will naturally attract like-minded, similarly value-based people to your business.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: It's just the way it happens.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: And you do gently push away those who don't share those values in a very comfortable and natural way and you end up with a hardcore people who really believe in the same things.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: And if some of those values are very much around work ethic and the efforts and the contribution of the performance that you believe is right and in particular for us is the sort of client and people-centric focus we have as a business, then the performance naturally flows.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: So I go back to what I perhaps said earlier, where if we focus on looking after our people brilliantly, they'll look after our clients superbly and the results and performance naturally flows.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: And that's very much the style of business that we are.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: In it it sets a standard that people aspire to but don't feel is something that's too difficult to achieve.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: You strike me as somebody who's got a growth mindset.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: And when I talk to people within the business, it is all about growth and opportunity and progressing people and moving people based on their skill set into roles, creating roles for people.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a very exciting dynamic growth, mindset, environment.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Does that come from you?
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Are you more of a growth?
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: mindset individual.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I'm a team player.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Robbie was my sport and you can't play Robbie on your own.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: You need every different type of skill set and capability and the business is very similar in that regard.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: So, and yes, growth is about getting better at what you do all the time and every day, working with people who challenge you.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Don't just do what you say, but actually bringing new people to the business.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: For me is really exciting.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: We've brought over 91 new people to the business in the last three months through the acquisitions that we've done.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: You know we're only 350 people in total, so nearly 25% of the business has changed or had been added to, and that brings huge amount of creativity, ideas, energy, you know, passion, belief all of those things we can harness alongside the culture that we believe in to make us a better business.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, absolutely a growth mindset.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Every day is about moving forward as achieving more and getting better, and I think when you believe passionately in those things, people feed off that energy and maybe become of a similar mind.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: You said there about the acquisitions being a big part of your growth and over the last year or so it's really increased your numbers.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question about how you determine whether or not that acquisition is actually the right cultural fit for you?
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Do you have to go through that process, Do you?
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Have to think hang on, if I bring this company on, are they going to?
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Because one bad apple can spoil the whole car, can't it?
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: It's the absolutely most important thing as far as we're concerned.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: So the culture that we assess.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: We assess very early in the process, so we get to meet all of the key people, not just necessarily the owners.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: We meet them face to face, ideally meet them at their place of work if that's possible, but certainly local to it.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: So we see the connection they have with the local community.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Do they believe in the same things that we believe in?
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: So if we see the world in a similar way, that's really encouraging and we move quite quickly then on from culture to propositional fit.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: But culture for us is everything and if there isn't that natural fit, the integration is going to struggle and the long term relationship between the businesses and the people who join will not be as successful as they need to be.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: So, for us, successful integration starts with cultural compatibility critical, Fantastic.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: And you're out there meeting these people face to face yourself, roger to make sure they're ticking the boxes and they're not going to come into the business and kind of change the culture in any way.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we feel it's really important.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're a large and growing business but we're not so big that we shouldn't be whether rubber meets the road.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: In my view, If people want to hear and understand what this business is about, what it believes in, they should hear it from me or another member of the senior team.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: So you know, I'm very happy to lead that process and every acquisition I will meet face to face in the first instance, really to make sure that culturally we feel it can work.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So, what would you say?
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: right now are the biggest opportunities within financial planning.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: What would you say is the biggest opportunities?
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's a really exciting space at the moment.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure demand certainly in the time I've been in this sector has ever been higher than it is at the moment.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: People do need the right people do need the right sort of advice, and interesting when you see pressure on price right across the sector.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Actually, the one thing, even through consumer duty, that's holding up pretty strongly is the price that the clients are prepared to pay for advice, the value they place on that advice.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: So that demand, I think, is going to stay with us and is a really important part of the current dynamic.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I do think there's a lot of pressure in the sector, particularly through compliance and regulation.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: You know, consumer duty has been another sort of a really good example of that.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: But technology has made everything that we do more transparent.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: It's easier to deliver a higher quality service and openly and transparently and to make sure that reporting is easily accessible.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: So that will lead to more digital capability, all of which is enhancing the sector's ability to provide a high level of service.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: So I think the opportunity for that is significant.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: It's led to a lot of investment you know some of that's private equity, which has given the sector the funding it needs to really be able to grow and expand.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So I think the career opportunities with people in financial planning at the moment are as good as they've ever been and I genuinely you know I mean that, I think and there is a real demand for good quality advisers.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: You know the succession phase that we're now going through of what is a sort of you know, a sector that's quite mature is really critical, so very exciting times.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Do you think?
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Do you think an increase in numbers of client facing power planners, or perhaps even changing the name power planner into financial planners, where they're going to become more client focused as advisors retire out and more acquisitions, for example, come in, you might?
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: all of us have seen many clients that you think in hang on, we need people in front of them.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I think it's a great opportunity for power plans to start stepping up into the role of financial planner and continue on the power planning journey.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking quite recently with somebody around AI and Gen I AI and the impact that Gen I AI is going to have on back office functions, and in reality it is going to be freeing up administrators and power plans to be spending their times in different ways.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: And I think those companies now that are doing that, investing in those, client facing power plans that want to are investing in it are only going to read the rewards later on down the line.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: In that client relationship type role I see yes, I think.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I think for those power planners who are more technicians but want to become client facing, I think it's a massive opportunity.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: The combination of skills required to be a really good advisor are high levels of technical capability, of course the IQ that goes with that but also the EQ to be able to really build relationships.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately, trust is the critical piece of value that sits within responsibility we have as an advisor, and your ability to build rapport, to manage and maintain good relationships is a vital part of that.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Now, not every paraplanner will want to go that route, but I think for those who do, it's a massive opportunity, and we are seeing in our own business those advisory roles being filled by a whole range of back office staff, including paraplanners.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: So I do think it's a part of the succession solution.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got juicy on the podcast a bit later on eight promotions in seven years.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: You're a company that definitely invests in career development plans, mentoring, training and encouraging people to go through the process, and I think a clear career roadmap for anybody when they join a business is really, really important, as is the opportunity.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: You need to see what's in front of you.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: You need to see can I progress through this company?
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I think when you look at the financial planning profession as a whole, it's been very hierarchy based admin, paraplanner, financial advisor.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: You're in that place.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: You're in that place.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: I think a dynamic environment like yours, which is growing and then has the ability to move people around based on their skillset, is refreshing To me.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: That's refreshing.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got loads of examples of that.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, first of all and this was pointed out to us by the Investors in People Gold Award that we were awarded a couple of years ago that actually we fill a lot of our vacancies internally.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: It's quite rare, unless it's the very junior roles, we have to go externally to fill those.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: We are promoting people all the time and when you're a business that's growing, you offer that opportunity to people so people can move through the ranks, as Josie has very quickly Ahead of operations, who runs pretty much everything across the operational side of the business.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Joe Butler started out in a fairly junior role in marketing and has worked through that and stepped across to operations.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: So there's many, many examples across the business where people have been able to develop their careers, maybe in a different direction from where they started.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: But as a business we invest heavily in the people side of the training, the skills to be able to do that.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: And it's not just training, it is also your management development that is critical and that means having mentors that guide and support you on that journey and obviously you have to have the doors that will open for opportunities to be taken.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a really important part of the mix.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I've got Helena on the podcast as well, so it's going to be another episode with Helena, who's obviously head of talent acquisition, and she was so excited to tell me just about the retention rate, but also, in the last couple of years, flipping it on its head a bit and looking at people that don't have as much experience and investing in them through the career frameworks and the right training, the right mentorship and development and the success from that has been huge.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: And again, just refreshing to hear because everybody's out there fighting for that top talent.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: But what they don't realize is there's plenty of people out there that might just be a little bit below the idea of what you think you should have.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: You should invest in them.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in our view, people stay where they grow.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: So if you can create a growth focused environment where the resources are available and the opportunities are available for them to be able to grow and develop, they will stay with you.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: People don't naturally want to leave unless they feel that they're getting ripe and they're rotting.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: They need to feel as though they've got that next piece of growth and development ahead of them.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: So for us, that's critical and in a business that is growing as quickly as we are, we can offer that.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: And there aren't many months that go by that I'm not writing a lovely letter to somebody who's been with us for more than five years or 10 years, or, as I did literally last week, two people have been with us more than 15 years and we've only been existing 17.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: So it says a great deal, I hope, about the fact that people, when they join us, they want to stay.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the challenges that financial planners might be experiencing right now in the current climate.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: What are you?
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: coming across.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Obviously, you're speaking to lots of planners.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: You're speaking to lots of business owners.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: What do you think are some of the challenges they're coming up against?
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Are they difficult to overcome?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I think they are, unless you are managed to achieve.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: You manage to achieve the scale, it gives you the financial ability to deal with some of them.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I mean one of the biggest recently has been the sort of it's always been a factor is the sort of compliance and regulatory burden.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: The cost of that has just increased several fold over the last decade Consumer duty, the pressure that's put on every business to absolutely review, and it's brilliant in one sense that you are absolutely clear on the fair value you're offering to client.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: But it has been a huge piece of work and has led to a lot of change for a lot of people and that's not easy for smaller businesses to work through while they are managing BAU.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: I think the investment in technology, creating the connectivity between systems.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: We've spent a lot of time building our operational platforms so that back office and front office talk to each other seamlessly, connecting to our reporting software, to the platform that we have created.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: So all of these things take a lot of time, a lot of investment and are a real challenge for smaller businesses to be able to deliver.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: We were a small business once ourselves.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: We absolutely understand how difficult that is.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: So I think for those reasons there are challenging.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: You've also got succession We've touched on earlier in this discussion, so there's a lot of people heading towards the retirement phase of their career with particularly advisors and bringing through the next group of advisory capability is really important and not easy to do when you're a small business in a local area, trying to find those resources and the ability to train and develop.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: So those three things, I think, are big challenges for smaller businesses and we're in a fortunate position now only because of the longevity we have, perhaps, and the funding we have, but we are able to invest in all of those things to really deliver aid to client, to our staff, but also help with succession.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Do you think some of those restrictions in place to be able to grow firms Because you're absolutely right, if a tunnel pool is small, how are you supposed to grow your firm?
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's obviously giving people no choice really but to go to perhaps, a consolidator or to start to partner with a larger firm?
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Do you think they're going to have no choice at some point and they're going to have to go down that route?
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah well, I think we're going through a very interesting cycle.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, clearly this is a consolidation phase for the sector and there's very good reasons why and there's a lot of interesting dynamic driving that.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Not all consolidation is good.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: We describe ourselves not as a consolidator but as a facilitator.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: So we tend to look at culture and people first rather than numbers.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And if we make that work then naturally the integration and the retention long term is much higher because of the cultural fit.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: So facilitation means flexibility.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: So some people will be joining us as a self-employed advisor with a view to maybe doing a PBO longer term.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Not every business can offer that opportunity.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Some will join us because they are looking to de-risk and take some capital today.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: They might stay with us longer term.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: The risk is their primary focus.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Or will be some people who might join us because they are looking to exit and they want their clients really well looked after in a like-minded culture, with a service focused or into proposition.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: So I think there are options, but consolidation isn't the only one.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Facilitation is there.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying we're the only one doing that, but we do want to differentiate ourselves between the sort of facilitator, the flexible, adaptable role that suits the individuals involved rather than necessarily just the more cookie cutter, financially driven approach.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: What should somebody think about when they are approaching that age or time of their career where they're thinking about exit?
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: What should they be thinking about?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: When should they be thinking about it?
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: What are the key things that they really should?
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: They're going to write a little list, roger.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: What are the things that they should really focus on before they even pick the phone up to somebody like you?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think in terms of planning, they should be thinking three to five years before you know they're looking to make a firm decision.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: So there's lots you can do to prepare your business, your practice, whatever the size is, before you actually end up in a deal.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: You should think about your people.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: You know what age are they, what motivations do they have, what timeline works for them?
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Are they critical to the business?
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: You obviously will be if you're the advisor.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: But what about your staff?
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Can they be a big part of the benefit of the acquirer?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: So that there is that continuity?
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: And obviously for me the absolute centre will be your clients.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: You know what proposition will they really value and appreciate and benefit from?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: What are the services that you provide that need to be replicated in a similar way, at a similar price, by the business that you merge with or you sell to?
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: So I think you know again, it's all about the people.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: You know your staff, obviously, your own personal circumstances and timeline, but obviously sitting at the heart of the client.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: What do you think they should be?
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: wary of yeah, I think be wary of purely focusing on price.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately, I understand it's your life's work.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: If you're selling it, you want to get the best possible price for that.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: But as we know in life generally, you know, with the price tag there comes a further commitment and sometimes, if culture is wrong, if proposition is not going to be suitable, if it's not going to work at an emotional level for clients, it's unlikely to work for you.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: You know the consideration of it, if it is of a deferred nature, is going to struggle to be realised.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: You really want a positive integration, a really comfortable fit, and then everything else seems naturally to take care of itself.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So you know, be wary of those that come with large checkbooks.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Look beyond that to the people.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: And you know we're a business that's still led today by the people who founded it.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: There's not many out there that can say that and you know, with us, you know what you're going to get.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: The values are clear.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: They've been laid down for 17 years.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: We've been applying them in the same way throughout the whole period.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Find a business you know has that longevity and that you can trust the values that they preach.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: You've got quite a few areas within Foster Dayno the employee benefits as well.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Second site, for example Can you just give us just a brief overview of the different areas of Foster Dayno though.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we are a group.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I call it an integrated financial services group so we we deliver personal advice services to high net worth and ultra high net worth individuals through the private wealth brand, foster Dayno the private wealth.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: We also have a corporate advisory business which deals with mid to large SME so probably 50 to a thousand employees is our, our sweet spot and a whole range of services employee benefits, wellness in the workplace, financial education.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: We provide them with communication tools for their, their staff, to really understand the benefits that have been provided and right through to even taking action through digital support services on, maybe, isa contributions or pension top-up.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: So, and we also run an investment business which is offers a portfolio management service called the Dynamic Portfolios, which is very complementary to the two businesses, both the corporate advice and the individual advice, and, alongside that, a digital service which will offer guidance both in the workplace and to individuals for those who are on their journey, maybe haven't built enough assets or have complicated circumstances that really need full advice, but are on that journey.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: So it's the sort of four key pillars, really, and all of those are integrated in a way that they talk to each other, they share opportunities and ideas.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Many businesses that we look to acquire have got some corporate clients and aren't quite sure what to do with them.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: We've got a perfect home for them.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: So for us, we see financial planning, and particularly the workplace, is a really exciting opportunity.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Hence the reason why we've recently acquired the Ponson South, or EB, business, which you know we're very excited about potential.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: What do you see in the potential when it comes to financial planning through the workplace?
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Where is that potential there?
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Do you see it?
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Well, you've got a sort of captive audience of people who understand and hopefully trust the brand, and it's a way of harnessing and enabling an education of some of the core things that you know we all still feel should be taught through the education process when people are younger but never quite get to.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: So for us it is about understanding their benefits and the value that can bring to them and their families, but also where are their gaps and their weaknesses.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And you know, big focus at the moment is wellness.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: You know this whole sort of mental wellness approach that for the right sort of employer, they want to make sure their staff are well looked after, both financially and in their health.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: So we see the workplace as a real growth opportunity over the next 20 years as the state is becoming more and more challenged to provide this whole dependency that perhaps it has become the norm.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: As we move away from that state dependency, you know, the employer will become more and more of a focus for providing those sorts of required financial and wellness services.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Do you think the pension product will have a bit of a resurgence because it's got.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: It sounds a bit dusty, doesn't it?
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: A pension?
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: When everyone says well, I've got a pension.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: It sounds dusty.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Do you think they're going to modernize it?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: You know, do you think retirement's changing?
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Anyway, we're going to need to reframe it all and reframe it?
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, I think so.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the whole concept of retirement is a bit alien to me.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, my father was somebody who, although he stopped working in a particular role, never stopped working.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: He was making bell frames on his farm till he was, you know, in his 70s and beyond, and I do think now there is that sort of sense of of wanting to be able to contribute and be involved for much, much longer.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: So pensions, really getting to an age and then retiring, doesn't feel to me to resonate with the current social norm.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: So, you know, the pension changes that were implemented nearly 10 years ago now make quite a big difference.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: There is an awful lot more flexibility, people using, you know, sips, for example, a more personal approach, and I think there is a lot further that we could go to ensure that whenever people are investing in it is going to be fit for purpose, for their lifestyle and at the right time for them.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fantastic.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I love what you said about the wellness and work side, because, 100%, if someone's looking after their financial well-being, it's going to have a massively positive impact on the bottom line of the company.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: And I think companies do tend to have a duty of care to bring wellness into people's lives.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: We've bought in things like counselling.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: I'm on the board of directors for a charity called Talk Club, so we hire talk clubs in our office and if anybody has any problems or any issues, we can refer them on to a coach, whether it's financial, whether it's mental health.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: So I think we do have a duty of care as employers to do that, and I think employers are looking at ways to be differentiators out there as well.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: It's competitive, isn't it, to keep?
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Staff and employee benefits play a big part in that, as does employee wellness, and, I think, if companies can score themselves high on that which they're now starting to do by bringing in certain types of like B Corp and all those different types of things.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's a massive differentiator and people are going to go to those companies where they feel looked after Well, I think it's become an expectation now you know that those are things that certainly younger staff will look for and it's not.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: it's you know.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: So if you haven't got it, you will stand out.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: So it's a negative differentiator potentially, you know, and there's different reasons.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I think HR departments definitely want to attract the right people and they want to do the right thing.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: The duty of care is real.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: You know, in the finance department it might be slightly different.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: They're looking at potential liability and managing that as best they can.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: And you know, somebody gets to a retirement position or maybe ill health, and they haven't got the right things in place.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: You know who are they going to turn to and point the finger at.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: You know it could well be the employer.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Well, shouldn't you have done more for me to understand the implications of some of these things?
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: So, yes, the duty of care is absolute and I think there is a big drive and there is an expectation there that I will get looked after above and beyond.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: But there's also the liability issue, which needs to be, needs to be managed carefully and protected by by doing the right things.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: For me, it's all about stories bringing bringing to life the business, and this is part of that.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: That journey as well, you know, is getting to know who Roger is and the staff that make a business.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I do believe that the talent within a company is the most valuable talent asset at all that you could ever have, and we're listening to things more now.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: We're watching things on YouTube.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: We're consuming information through social media.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: People aren't scrolling through job adverts anymore.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: They want to be kind of captivated by some content and relatively quick and relatively engaging and long form at a time when they want to do it, and they might want to listen to it when they're in the car or the gym or walking the dog.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: So I'm really pleased that you guys are kind of forward thinking and everything you're doing at the moment just sang so forward thinking.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: On the subject of forward thinking, let's think about the next generation, because there is a talent shortage, there is a lack of people coming into the profession and there are people trying to fix that with academies etc.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: But let's just kind of focus on that.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: What do you think can be done?
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: What do you?
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: you know, I ask everybody this.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: What do you think can be done more in the financial planning profession to get more young people involved in it?
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: And second careerists because there's plenty of second careerists out there got the same transferable skills.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: You just don't know about the profession.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think profile is everything and you know this and what you're doing some in particular I think is is a hugely important part of that.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: You know, just raise the profile.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: You know I've got three sons who are all in their early twenties.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Would I have spoken to them about anti-infantial services 10 years ago?
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Not sure I would.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Am I in?
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Do I today?
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: You know, for you to become qualified, and maybe do your first four or five years as you would in pretty much any other professional services career, you can be earning somewhere between 50 and 100,000 very quickly For working hard, of course, getting your qualifications.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: The opportunity is very significant.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't the same if you go back 10, 15 years ago, I think you, the doors that have now opened the opportunity that is there, and but we need to get that message out and I don't think it is clearly understood you know, universities is.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Is that the same input to the university sort of structure for financial services as there are for many others?
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: probably not.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of approaches to my kids, as well as others, from the big four, you know.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: But what are we doing of a similar nature?
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: So you know, we've been quite a segmented or fragmented probably better term market for a long time, I think.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: As larger firms are emerging, I think it does give us a stronger position to be able to put our best foot forward, but getting the message out there is critical.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: So I'm behind 110% and that's the whole reason why I set up the financial plan of life.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: There was nothing out there that was giving any indication as to what it was like to work within the profession from my perspective being a recruiter.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: That was how I did.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I was talking to people all the time.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I think we'll just bring them on a podcast and everyone know what it's like.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: It's gone from strength to strength, so I'm really excited about the financial plan of life, becoming the go-to place when it comes to financial career education, financial planning, career education and then coming into the academy.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: If they haven't got qualifications and training, deploy, you know because again certain firms of certain sizes are struggling with the training costs how to manage it, all those different types of things.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: So there are different things that can be done, but it's not just for your SJPs, it's not just for you Quilses, because they can have that you know big, glamorous academy when they're doing a great job and bringing people in.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: They absolutely are.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: But it's like how can we make it more accessible to everybody?
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: And that's the sort of thing we're trying to fix it.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: My infinite wisdom.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: I thought I could fix the advice gap.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: We'll get there eventually.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: We'll get there eventually, once separate on.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: On this final note, this passing note, what should we say to say to somebody who's just started as a financial plan up right, you've had a successful career, okay, it's still going on as you're going from strength to strength.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: But if someone's at the beginning of their career right now and they need a bit of pointing in the right direction, what would Roger do if he went back in time and it was year?
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: one.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well, like I think, obviously you need the qualifications to be able to enable you to develop, but that aside, I would focus very much on your communication and relationship skills.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, for me it's everything.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: If you're going to be talking to people who have substantial wealth and they're going to be looking to you to invest.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: You've got to be able to build trust and that means having the understanding of how trust is created and maintained.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: It's doing what you say you will do is being open and honest and transparent.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: It's always doing the right thing.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: You know so and there's a lot that you can learn about that.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: It isn't always naturally within us.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: It is with some people, but for many of us, we've got to work very hard at that and I remember in my early career doing huge amounts of tapes, listening to books, reading and going to seminars and so on, and it is a huge learning.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: So, first of all, I would really train, educate, learn.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I surround myself with great people, mentors, people who have been there and seen it and done it.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: We have a huge number here.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: We're on a whole mentoring program at Foster Day, novo and surround yourself with people that can help you learn and develop, but also build a really strong network externally to your business of people who will open doors for you, will want to and have the capability to introduce you to opportunity.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: So I think, I think your relationship and communication skills are critical.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Build your network, both internal and external, and and make sure that you start by adding value.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: You know I think we always begin here with that I love the law of tenfold return whatever you give out, you'll get back in tenfold.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: That's good or bad, and if you add value first.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: So seek to understand first before being understood, rather than going out with your sales pitch.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: How can I help is a brilliant question, and not everybody will respond positively to that, but a lot of people will go.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Actually, you could help by doing this and if you can, they will come back and help you in return.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: So you know, start with the value you can add.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Always put yourself in the other person's shoes.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Build your relationship and communication skills that develop trust and surround yourself with brilliant people.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: And there's a recipe there that, with your own work, ethic and skills and abilities, you know you'll fly.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Roger, I echo absolutely everything you said there.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Roger.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to bring that to an end.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for taking the time out today to sit down with me here at the Financial Plan of Life to talk about your journey, to talk about Foster De Novo and, obviously, what a wonderful future ahead for the company.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be watching because I think you guys are going absolutely far.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much, Roger.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.