Latest / Beheaded / Rebel of the Red Cross | Edith Cavell

Transcript

Rebel of the Red Cross | Edith Cavell · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to season six, episode six.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to 2025.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Happy New Year's.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Beheaded style.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Beheaded style.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Kicking off the new year with gore, blood, and executions.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Year of the snake.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Year not yet, because it's not the lunar new year yet, but very close, very close to Year of the Snake.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Though I'm a dragon, so I would love for the Year of the Dragon to continue, you know, until it needs to go away.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit more.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Was it Year of the Dragon?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the Year of the Dragon.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: My turn now.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a snake.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because you're you're younger than me, right?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how it works in the Chinese Zodiac is every 12 years is the your year.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: So because we're 36.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know a whole lot about it.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: I have a little book here.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to learn.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I took it from my childhood bedroom in Colorado.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was like my very first astrology book I bought when I was a sixth grader, and my dad was deeply concerned.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I remember Years of Astro of Chinese New Year's.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, it has both like the first half is Western Zodiac and the second half is Chinese.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's kind of cool.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's really cool because there's a section too that shows the overlap.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, because I'm a cancer dragon.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can find out more.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a Virgo snake.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when you combine the Eastern with the Western, you learn a lot more.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's very specific.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's really weird, actually.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I like that for both of us because I feel like Virgos and Cancers are nice.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like and like nice.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, dragons and snakes are a little bit wild.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you got both.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Taylor's Taylor Swift is also year of the snake.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: And what's her sign?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Capricorn?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: December.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not that good at astrology.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: We gotta get uh um spill the mead on the horn, they'll tell you.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: What were you saying though about because you're 36?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: That is because every 12 years is when your year comes.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: So like the year you're born is your Chinese zodiac year.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you're 12, and then when you're 24, and then when you're 36.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that makes so much sense.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: The math is mathing.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: The math is mathing.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm now 36, so it's my year, the year of the dragon, and then you turn 36 in the same.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I do turn ther oh wow.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I turn 36 in September.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it will be my year.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just learned something.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Year of the snake.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you learn things on this podcast.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Not a lot, but sometimes you do.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you do.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're not what you think you're gonna learn.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Unexpected information.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Not the title of the episode is what you're gonna learn, just uh other fun tidbits along the way.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been learning a lot of fun tidbits lately.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: You did.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: You just had a really cool weekend.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Tombstone, Arizona.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Arizona.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: My husband just had his 40th birthday.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's which I feel like I think that's cool.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know it feels old, but also kind of cool.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was telling 40-year-old.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was telling Megan it doesn't like 40 doesn't scare me.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't scare me at all.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we like really wanted to go big, so we did uh two nights, three days in Tombstone, Arizona.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's about three hours south of where I am in Scottsdale.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, Tombstone is okay, corral, the big shootout, Doc Holiday, Wyatt Earp.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really cool being in the middle of it because you hear these stories, and we did prepare by watching the really cool dockey series on Netflix.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to go in knowing what I was surrounding myself with.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to be oblivious.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to shove to a historical side and not know who anyone was.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: No context, yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's great that when you read little plaques and like so-and-so was here, you're like, Why did I know that person?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's it makes more of a difference to me.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And is the era late 1800s when like Doc Holiday and White Earp were there?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the town of Tombstone started in 1879 and the shootout happened in 1881.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, wow.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I learned so much.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: We saw the mine, we did the mine tour.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: The mine is called the good enough mine.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And there's the good enough pot too.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I learned so much information.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: The reason why is because Edward Sheffield, who founded Tombstone, by finding the mine first.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's just how a lot of towns get started.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in the southwest, there's there's gold, there's silver, there's something.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And at first he found another silver spot and it was being valued at$2,000, which is a lot back then.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like gold?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't buy a a unit, like a unit.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they like basically measure a unit and put value to it, and they would rate it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Don't hold me to this.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds good.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So just remember, so one was valued at 2,000.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I don't know what happened in that spot, but he kept moving on, and then he found the tombstone area, and it was rated at 1800.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, good enough.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Good enough.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because he liked the spot or whatever.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's comparable.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's called the good enough mine.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: I also love, and we've talked about this a little, like on previous shows, how things in the West are just very literal in terms of how they're named.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's like dead man wash and like dead man, probably washed up there.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, like good enough mine.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's just funny, like in air in It's kind of elementary.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's fun, it's kind of silly, but I'm sure in the West when they were expanding, it's just kind of like pointing to things.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: People were super educated.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think they were the brightest lights in the box, taking over all the land from the natives and just pointing to things like shiny, I want that.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: What does it look like?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh four peaks.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a four peaks mountain.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's a street called Tough Nut in Tombstone.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because verbatim, someone said to Ed Sheffield, he's like, oh, this will be a tough nut or something.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, we'll name the street that perfect.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we had an Airbnb and it was right right across from the OK Corral.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Which, if you're not familiar with Westerns or anything, I'm sure it's you it sounds familiar.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um there was a big notorious shootout that only lasted 26 seconds.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it was between the Earp brothers, who was like Virgil and Wyatt and their other younger brother, and they were like the sheriff, not the sheriff, but um they were the law of town.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then Doc Holiday, who is this famous out kind of an outlaw, he was arrested several times.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: But was he actually a doctor?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, he was actually a doctor.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And he was a raging alcoholic and he had tuberculosis.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like everyone was an alcoholic and had TV back then.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: His prescription he gave himself was whiskey, and he kind of like took that very seriously, so he was just constantly wasted.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: As do I.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, speaking of, I'm getting over sickness.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: We always are seeing you hear it.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And when I start laughing, it's gonna come out.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna try to take out my coughing spurts, but I'm I'm in that period, so I apologize.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's alright.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there is a big shootout between them and the cowboys.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And back then the cowboys were not good.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: The cowboys were like a gang.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right, okay.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole thing came down to who was behind what of um I'm really butchering the whole story, but it had to do with the Wells Fargo wagon.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a it was a really big, like classic Western tale.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the end, why Earp and Doc Holliday got arrested for the any I won't get into all of it.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not relevant.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: But look it up because it's fascinating.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Look it up.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: We were right across from the okay corral.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: We went to the birdcage, Jake and I didn't know.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Which is the theater.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: That theater that was the gambling hall where all the prostitutes were, the very cliche, just any western movie you watch.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Big Nose Kate, she was one of the ladies who worked there.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: She was Doc Holiday's girlfriend.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that was just cool.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: They had all of their artifacts, all of their stuff there.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the actual like tables that they would sit and play cards at, and there's bullet holes in walls from where things got rowdy.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we just like hopped through a lot of saloons and saw a lot of Western stuff.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really fun.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Texting Megan down there, and I don't think you were quite sober.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was not entirely sober.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: You were like really living it up like the cowgirl.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: I need to go down there, and I've said this before, like, I I mean, me and Megan travel a lot, and it's like I kick myself when I go somewhere as far as like, you know, England or like France, and you're seeing all these cool historic sites, and I'm like, we actually have a lot in Arizona.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a different type of history, it's just different, yeah, and it's a little more recent, obviously.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking late 1800s, but it is cool because so many people are fascinated by that era in history, and we forget that it's just like so accessible here.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I I do think you know, we need to spend a little more time in the Arizona ghost towns around.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the ghost towns are really cool, and I highly recommend.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely need to post some pictures and videos of it because we toured through the courthouse.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And in the back, there's a yard.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's like a big, tall Brickedon courtyard type yard.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they weren't the original gallows, but they did have replicas, and they were big, really tall gallows with five nooses hanging on it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they had all but that was where it still happened.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So even though I get it, they can't necessarily save all the wood, that'd probably lose all of its integrity over the past 150 years or so.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I bet a lot of those ropes ended up in that museum you and I went to where it showed the noose ropes for each victim.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Probably that'd be cool.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we'll have to I I would go again, definitely.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how's your Christmas?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was good.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Robbie and I went up to Colorado and we drove because we wanted to take the dog and all of that.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and unexpectedly we stopped in Santa Fe, New Mexico on the way up.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was we kind of did it last minute because Robbie had some work calls, and it was really funny because he was like, Oh, I just booked a random hotel like with points.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking we're gonna be at some like, I don't know, holiday in or something.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like holiday in, whatever he's got for his credit cards or points.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And we ended up in this really cute old boutique like hotel, and uh it was called, oh gosh, now I'm on the spot and I'm already forgetting.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was called La Posada.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it had the traditional, like, you know, red, green, like like they're the red chilies that are dried and like hung up everywhere.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: They had a library and this like roaring fire, and we took it was dog friendly, and we took the dog in there, and he was like, You could tell he was feeling fancy.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even when we opened the room, I was like, wow, this is a huge room.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: We had it, I didn't expect it to be so like luxurious because I was again, I thought we were staying at like a crappy best western, and uh, and the dog goes on the bed and like rolls around right away, like he realizes a rescue dog coming from the streets of Phoenix.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: He's like living the high life, like you could tell.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was really cute.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: That was great.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, went up to Colorado, did the whole family thing, and we always do the same things for for Christmas with my family.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we do the midnight mass, we go to always go to like a play or a show or a musical.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we saw the Christmas Carol downtown.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, went to the Brown Palace Hotel for dinner.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: I've been there.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's beautiful I love the Brown Palace.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: I will say, of course, the night we chose to go was the night of the debutante ball in Denver.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we're like debutants, like this is Colorado.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we don't, it's not the South.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought that was more like a Georgia thing.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and so of course, Robbie's Mr.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Social, so he started talking to some of the moms, and he's like, What is this?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because he went to college in Virginia, so he was like, I know I've been to dead like debutante balls, like I've done this, but in the south, like, why are you guys here in Colorado?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Oh, we're all transplants, like we're all from the southeast, yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: We we have to keep the tradition alive, and so they had 36 debutants, it was huge.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so as much as I loved going there, we were so crowded in the restaurant because they were just like spilling everywhere, just like walking everywhere.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Explain the Brown Palace, and then where did you I'm gonna know where you ate in there because there's different things?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: I know we did see we did the casual restaurant, okay.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: The shipwreck or something tavern.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like a so it's more pub filling, you know, but it's still nice and great food, like amazing food.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: But of course, the table we got was like right next to the bar, so all of the like debutante parents were just at the bar and like literally just practically spilling their martinis like on our table.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh proud.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was fun because I'm like more the merry thing.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's a big tradition, and I like that people uphold the tradition.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: And and Robbie said the what like the women he talked to were very like, he's like they talk to me really like seducely.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean like these rich old ladies who are like looking at him like a piece of meat.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I've never felt so like like you know, like just uh what do you call it?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like objectified.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's funny.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh yeah, young, young hot guy talking to the old ladies with money.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the Brown Palace is old.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: What a hotel?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: It is it is it, yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the oldest hotel in downtown Denver, very historic.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they like they're very famous for their tea.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've been to their tea there.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't, but I remember looking at the options.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we didn't get a chance to tour because there was just people everywhere.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we kind of just went straight in from the street, went into the restaurant, and then came, you know, had to go to our show.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we wanted to tour, and of course, my mom too was like, I don't want to go around while all these people are everywhere, and they're all in like, you know, black tie attire, and we're just like here to see a show.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, but it was it was a great Christmas overall, very warm for Denver, no snow.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: But came back here.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Warm everywhere.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, not yeah.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right now it's it's getting chilly in the country, but yeah, in general, every every place around Christmas was pretty warm.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I went to Prescott to see my parents for Christmas, and I was hoping to see snow too, and no snow.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: No snow.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was like high fifties next year, yeah.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And now we're just gonna go straight into the hundred-degree wet weather.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we didn't really get a break.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, before we get into the show too tonight, sorry, I know we're going a little long here on the banter.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we exchanged Christmas gifts today.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: We did our tradition of of exchanging books.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we won't do it live.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: I know we've done that on the show where we opened them live for you.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone loves to hear it's just opening a present.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like ASMR.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know everyone just fast forwards through it, it's fine.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so Megan got me an 1883 copy of Robin Hood, which is super oh, it looks so cool.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like the binding is fragile.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: The binding is fragile.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful book.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've never actually read Robin Hood, and it's thick.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited to get into that.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then also the like the we always we tend to, we're like the rule is get each other one book, but we always end up with two somehow.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: We never make our decision.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second thing that was in the package was a French Revolution comic book, which I guess that's a thing.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what what year was it from?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was 1959, but it's an American comic book.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Of the French Revolution.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like about Marie Antoinette, and it was just like the most random little niche weird comic book.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Very specific, but it has all of her like main quotes, and I'm sure a lot of it's like fairly inaccurate given the time period.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: You'll have to read it and tell me how accurate it is.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, I'll read it all.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, I'll have to post some pictures because it's really funny.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: That was just like a silly add-in.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I need to throw this in somehow.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact that you'd find it at that bookstore, like what a random thing to have, I don't know, anywhere.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's so weird.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just kind of like shoved up in the back against one of the bookshelves, like it wasn't on display or anything.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a little fun find.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you did super cool as well.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: One, the first one is this like beautiful leather 40-year-old book.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Vintage.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I like you say 40-year-old, like that means something.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Same age as my husband.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And of uh the English law, which sounds a little stiff.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds boring.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds a little stiff, but it is what's the relation of it to Sir to Sir Walter Raleigh?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was his interpretation of Well, it was written in like the 1400s, and it's essentially like a defense of um the English laws.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: So there's even a section about like execution and torture.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's the part I'm excited to get to.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the author is essentially defending the laws and like why they're in place in England.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: So there's like this preface note that's kind of inserted in the book, and it talks about how like Sir uh Walter Raleigh like hailed this as like every like British person.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it was, kind of should read this.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Loved this book.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna read it through the perspective of Sir Walter Raleigh.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So ironic.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Here's this guy defending the rights of execution, and then of course that's his fate as well.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think at one point he was like, oh, maybe it wasn't quite there.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that so that was like the first part, and that is definitely a display book.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: That one is this pretty plum color, it's really cool.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second one, which I don't know a lot about, is a biography from 1935.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: We like to find old books, not just like your normal Barnes and Noble book, but yeah, we like to make up, make sure it's like more of an antique.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a 1935 autobiography of William the Conqueror.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Who, of course, built the Tower of London, so that's right up my alley.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna quiz Megan next time on how the Tower of London was constructed.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know much about William the Conqueror.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: All I know is his relations to Tower of London, and he conquered something, obviously.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I gotta read into him.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just have to be careful.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's so fragile.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: You don't wanna have oils all over it and spill wine and coffee on it.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that kind of doomed.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that kind of a book.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so overall, yeah, really good holiday season.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Good holiday season.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: My only downside of the holidays, my only negative part.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: That darn talent show through my job.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, did you not win?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Zero appreciation for my talent.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just gotta say, this was the the voting system was rigged, had to have been obviously don't trust it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even get most original.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even rank.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: There was only 11 contestants.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's only 11 contestants.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't get an any no nod, no ones.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um participation award.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's good too.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I bought some makeup wipe removers, I think.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: I like some.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I think it's time to quit.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that might be the zero appreciation.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: The the straw that broke the camel.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: After nine years, this is what you have to show for.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: She even talked about the British monarchs.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was really impressive, but that's okay.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, someone who made a rap about our sales team won something.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Of course he did.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: What a he's the sales guy.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: The customer support people get overlooked.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned to live with it.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: All good.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: But anywho.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Life goes on.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna move on with on that note.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a lady for today.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: We do, I know.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: I and you're actually taking early life.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: I am.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's a world war one lady.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Have we done anything world war one?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: We'll have to look back, but I'm pretty sure.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty sure like we've had quite a handful on World War II.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, this is.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Our lady of the episode is Edith Cavill.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Edith was born December 4th, 1865.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Your Abraham Lincoln was shot.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect, as everyone knows.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she was born in a village near Norwich, England.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was the eldest of four.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Her father was a vicar of 45 years.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And a vicar's like a reverend, correct?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Someone in the religious ministry of sorts.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who is very trustworthy, pious.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Very pious.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she was educated.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: She went to high school, which is always a funny thing to think about, like high school in the 1800s.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was the epitome of education.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, compared to some, she and she went to an all-girls boarding school at some point.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So she was a smart girl.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, after her schooling, she was a governess in Brussels.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that was between 1890 and 1895.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And after that point, her father got very ill, got very sick.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: She came back to England to care for him.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it was through caring of her dying father that she really found her true love was being a nurse and was taking care of others.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it should be known that like at this point, she's not like a young 20-something.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: She's already 30 when she goes into nursing.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's like fairly old for especially for a woman to just middle aged.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like to go into a new career.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like me, becoming a nurse at 35.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, honestly, a lot of respect for nurses.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: I could never, especially a nurse during the time of war.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: The idea of it is frightening.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna ask you too, because we've talked about the artful dodger on this show.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you started it, right?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I did, I watched the whole thing.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've never seen it, it's uh it's a Hulu show.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a spin-off of Oliver Twist, but it's about one of his friends who becomes a surgeon in Australia.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a very like powerful uh female figure in it who's also trying to be a surgeon at the time.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a time where women weren't even like allowed to work in hospitals.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Same age as this.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I was gonna ask you if you knew the timeline on Oh, I don't.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's around the same era, like late 1800s.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say it is.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: So women could only be nurses, right?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: They couldn't be surgeons or doctors.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right, and most of them were like nuns, like they worked in you know that field.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: She gets a job at Fountain Fever Hospital.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'd want to be taking care of a hospital.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: At fever hospital, no?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fever hospital?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Typhoid hospital.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she starts off as a nurse probationer.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um Uh which I didn't actually look to see what that was.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: What's a probationer?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta Google that one.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I thought you knew.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I thought maybe you looked it up.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, I didn't.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: My assumption, and I know someone will correct us, is someone who is of entry level.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Should I look it up?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be ideal.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's learn something.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let me hold your note.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Nurse probationer.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: I like that your last Google search was men's alluring cowboy costume.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Tombstone, okay?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: We had a dress to see.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just here, you know, pointing that one out.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's just a person who is trained in the medical care for the sick and disabled.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a nurse who has not completed 180 days of probation.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so it's like an entry-level employment.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: You were right.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Probation.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Probation.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Duh.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're smarter than this.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: The word probation is in there.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so she is a new nurse, and then she goes back to England.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she's in England.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: She goes to London Hospital.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: September 1896, she's working under a matron, Eva Lux, who, from the sounds of it, was quite an established, well-known the matron nurse would have been the overseeing superintendent type nurse.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we're sharing all this not just because we love early life and backstory, but really to just show how her career has built up quite quickly from when she was 30, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Moving up the ranks of nursery.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: She even earned the Maidstone Typhoid Medal because she really helped battle like a big typhoid epidemic that was going on in the town.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so again, she wasn't just working there, like she became really good at her craft.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Her and the other like nurses in in that hospital, it was a big epidemic where there was in a 34,000-person town, like 1,800 of them were infected.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And typhoid was not fun.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh between 1919, 1898 and 1899, uh, she was a private nurse, so she went around in different homes.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then she was eventually upgraded to be a night superintendent at St.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Patras Infirmary, still in England.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: From there became assistant matron at St.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Leonard's Infirmary in Shoreditch.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, she just kind of moved her way along, going all the way from being a probationary nurse to uh to assistant matron, which is almost, I guess, like the second highest rank that you could get.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in 1906, she became the matron of Manchester in Saulfield, sick and private nursing institution, which again, I like that they just keep naming them these things.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: If you're sick, go here.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then by 1907, she was recruited by Dr.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Anton DePage.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: And if that name sounds familiar, he was actually the Belgian royal surgeon and the founder of the Belgian Red Cross.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big deal.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so he saw her, recognized her talent, and again, in a world where women didn't really like hold these large positions other than just to be um nurses who worked for a male doctor, like he recognized her and wanted her to become matron of an entirely new nursing school that he was opening called the Berkendale Medical Institute in Brussels.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: So by 1910, she was not only matron in that school, but she also launched a professional nursing journal.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: She figured this is like an emerging field, you know, uh it's not just about, again, doctors and what they can do, it's about the nursing field.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so she uh published that journal, and within a year of that, she was training uh different nurses at three hospitals.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: She was training at 24 different schools, and I think like 11 other, they were like junior schools.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: I saw kindergarten.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: It said kindergarten, I assume that means not real kindergarten.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was taking that verbatim.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I'm gonna take care of the kindergartners.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh perhaps.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but so they worked really closely together, uh, Edith and DePage, uh, and really kind of drove like the medical profession forward because they recognized a lot of the the religious institutions that were practicing medicine weren't necessarily using like the latest medical tech.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they weren't quite as hygienic as like some of the cutting-edge medical facilities.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So she really came in and like I know I just referenced Artful Dodger, but similar to that, like like saw a lot of the things that needed to be fixed in terms of processes and cleanliness and like really got them up to up to par.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously, watch Artful Dodger.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you like history, I love that series, and I feel like no one has talked about it, no one has like given it praise.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Also, is there only one season?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is there supposed to be a second?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: There should be another I think I saw a petition going around for season two.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'll sign it.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it's cool because it really does talk about the this mind-blowing idea that maybe you should wash your hands before you amputate something or before you do surgery.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe don't stick your dirty fingers in.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they throughout the show, they're coming to the realization about infection and post-surgery care is just as important as the actual surgery.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that was something that um Edith Cavill was really uh really a fan of was just cleanliness and making sure that her nurses were in order, they were organized, they were professional, they had a good bedside manner, um, and everything was in a ship shape condition.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: I almost got it.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: So so then at this point, World War I breaks out, and uh Edith is actually back home in England visiting her family.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: Her mother's now a widow, so she lost her father.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: And by the time she comes back to her clinic in Brussels, like her entire facility is overtaken by the Red Cross, and all they're doing is attending to wounded soldiers at this point.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: And because it's Brussels, right?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're not in England, you're not in France, you're not in Germany, you're kind of at this intersection.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you're getting both sides of the war.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: You're getting German soldiers coming coming to you, you're getting British soldiers, you're getting French soldiers, and so she's taking care of everyone.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: She's not gonna pick a side.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: She's not like I'm only I'm English, so I'm only taking care of the English.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she she makes sure to care for everyone equally.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And at this point, this is 1914, and the Germans even start to occupy Brussels.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: So they're now even like overseeing this area of town in which she's staying.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know what is weird though?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why understandable, I suppose, as a nurse, that you're not allowed to discriminate.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if a patient comes in, whether they're German or British, you're gonna care for them.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: But that also means the sur the sorry, the soldiers are now together side by side in recovery next to their enemy.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the guy who may have like blown off his leg is next to them.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe not specifically, the odds of that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully they separated them a little bit.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: But no, but in theory, right?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're having to recover and lay side by side their enemies.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: I guess at that point, does it does it matter?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody at that point, you're all you're all human, you're all dying, you're all injured and sick.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, it's not like you're there because you had the sniffles either.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: You're there because you're missing a leg.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I'm sure they put their their differences aside to be cared for here.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but she starts to take it a step further.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: So now she's not just caring for soldiers of all walks, she is helping um the British and the French soldiers who are again now in occupied like German territory.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: She's helping them escape the German-occupied territory.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: So she's giving them money, she's helping them procure like false papers, and she's setting them up with guides.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: So once they're ready and like, you know, able to leave the facility, she's not just like, all right, see you later, good luck in German-occupied Brussels.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, hey, go to this guy, see this person, they'll get you papers, they will take you.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: The main goal was to get to um the Dutch frontier.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: So once you got to Netherlands, it was like neutral territory.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that was her whole goal.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: And she started smuggling quite a few people out that way.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she even kept this private diary.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was said that she kept it like sewn into one of her pillows.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: So she had a pillow that she would hide the diary in, and she kept very detailed notes of like how she was caring for people and um it and like who she was smuggling out of the hospital.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty dangerous because that's incriminating in itself.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you're documenting what you're actually doing, she didn't tell, she didn't want to uh incriminate anyone else of her colleagues of the other nurses who were just innocent and there to do their job.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't tell anybody.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: But there was this whole underground network of people involved, of sm smuggling maybe.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Smuggling sounds like the wrong term, but helping them get to their freedom and this underground escape route.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, and and the Germans did start to to get very suspicious of her.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they they knew that she was very outspoken, so she talked very openly about the fact that she would, you know, help anyone regardless of which side they fought for.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And again, this is German-occupied Brussels, so you're really not supposed to say that.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and they they saw how attentive she was and that perhaps she was helping them beyond just her skills to heal.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so by August 3rd, 1915, she actually gets arrested.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason she gets arrested is because she's betrayed by this guy named George Gaston Quinn, and he pretends essentially to be a wounded French soldier and like saunters into her hospital, like looking for her care specifically, because he's trying to figure out like, is she or is she not guilty of like harboring soldiers?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so she, of course, helps him.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: He's a Frenchman, like, so she, you know, can speak to him in French and whatever, and she's she tells him, Hey, I can get you to like neutral Netherlands, let me help you escape.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so at that point, she's like charged with harboring Allied soldiers, like gets arrested, and then at that point, her safe her fate's essentially sealed.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they were suspicious because soldiers were going missing.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: They know that there was a wounded British man here yesterday, and now he's mysteriously gone, and nobody seems to know where he went.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's not dead and buried.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he didn't die.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's no record of him dying, there's no record of him getting better.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when there was a full investigation.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, unfortunately, Edith didn't get away from it.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: She also didn't deny anything, which I really like this about Edith's character.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, you know, we hear stories of either they refuse to talk or they just lie, they deny everything.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: But from the very get-go, Edith was completely upfront and honest about it, about what she was doing.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't betray anybody else necessarily.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: She only spoke for herself.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in total, there were 34 people a part of this ring who were all arrested, and we'll get to the trial part, but tried together.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she is sent to St.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Giles Prison.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I hope it's St.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Giles.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Giles.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've had this exact same same word before, and we never say it correctly.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: You get it.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: She's sent to prison for a total of 10 weeks.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Two of those weeks, the two final weeks, she was in solitary confinement.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: She gives three different depositions on August 8th, 18, and 22nd.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this is happening pretty quickly.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And she admitted that there was at least 60 British people, 15 French people.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I believe it was 60 British soldiers.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry, British soldiers.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: 15 French soldiers, and then about a hundred um French and Belgian citizens, specifically citizens who are of military age and they were seeking shelter and housing to get out of the torments of World War One.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: So she's really trying to help innocent people of not Germans, but of but of all other Allied um backgrounds.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um a lot of people speculate at this time because the first Geneva Convention was already in place, and that stated if you are a nurse or a doctor in wartime, you're essentially exempt from like these potential accusations because you are there to help everyone.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: So she was supposed to have been protected, but then the the Germans took it a step further and they were like, Well, it'd be one thing if she was a nurse and was just overly helpful.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: They in fact thought she might have been a spy, like originally a spy who became a nurse to specifically go undercover.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, that seems far-fetched.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like just to help um, you know, the cause kind of thing.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how that's how they framed it when they finally came down to like what she's accused of and why she had no protection as a nurse.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: They were like, they're like, she's not just this nice nurse.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's my that might be her public perception, but she is in fact a spy for Allied forces, and this whole nurse thing has been a guise.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, look, she became a nurse at age 30.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: She really worked her way up those ranks, though.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: She did.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she there were officials coming from other countries trying to help her.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: This wasn't completely under the radar.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: This wasn't a very sneaky like I I know this was World War II and not World War I, but I'm almost thinking of like Sophie Scholl, how all of that seemed very hush-hush and secretive.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: People knew what was happening, uh, but they couldn't really help because of these like these clauses of the Geneva Geneva Convention and of these like these very technical little pieces of law that really didn't help in her favor.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the foreign offices of Britain basically said they couldn't help as much as they wanted to.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I am afraid that it is likely to go hard with Miss Cavill.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm afraid we are powerless, which everybody wanted to fight for her.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it it's really hard when Germans are going verbatim by the law.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Well, explain this then.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me how this doesn't fit.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um at the time, America was not part of World War I.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: But we even had our foreign advisors and our um foreign uh oh my gosh, tell me what the word here ambassadors that were located in Belgium at the time, right?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to intervene.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And same with Spain.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Spain was also neutral at this point.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: They were trying to intervene.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone just, I think, really felt bad for this woman who more than anything was a nurse.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she wasn't n they didn't see it as her illegally harboring 200 people, but that she was saving 200 people who didn't want to be there.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that didn't fly with the Germans.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, and the Germans at never, like at no point wavered.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they were very clear on coming down with her hard.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they even said, and you may I don't know if you have the exact quote, but they even said, if we don't make an example of this female, like every female's gonna think they can get away with this, where they can help the cause and they can harbor soldiers and do whatever it takes to help them win this war, but you know, and we're just gonna be soft on them because of their sex.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of a sudden they're such, you know, feminists.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: How convenient that it now now women should be treated equal as men.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll get through her story a little bit, but I do really like the the the quote from the German secretary about this.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe Oh, is this right here?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but maybe we'll we'll say that a afterwards after the sentence has been carried through because it kind of drives it home a little bit.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um so in total, I think there were five people, correct?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: That were uh sentenced to death.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right, but only two was it actually like carried out.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Three were I don't want to say pardoned, but um essentially lowered their sentence.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: They yeah, their their sentence was reduced.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: There was 34 people at the trial in total.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we mentioned that 34 were arrested, and yeah, five were set were found guilty.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um during the court martial, she signed her confession.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Again, didn't really dispute anything.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that really that kind of incriminated her as well was some of the soldiers, some of the British soldiers who got back home to England were writing her thank you letter saying, I made it home, like thank you for everything.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, it wasn't then that she just helped get them into Holland and get them into the Netherlands.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's that she got them into neutral territory and then brought them back to the country that is against Germany.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that extra step was also very increasing.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's so technical.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, it's not enough just to put them in neutral land, but the fact that you wanted them back in our enemy country.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, they're brilliant.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're from there, that's where their family is.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: So those letters did not help in her favor.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know what this was interesting.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Part of the 200 people that she helped save was Prince Reginald's sister.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: He was the Prince of Belgium.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Princess Marie of Croix was one of the people who were who was um harbored out.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't put that to uh together, but I did read her name.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Very cool.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she was um she she was uh orchestrating a very big network, uh, which she again admitted to.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that didn't help during her trial is that they questioned her in French during the trial.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, yeah.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the trial itself was recorded in German.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they're also not that again, it's not like she was claiming innocence.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think in the end, regardless, she was confessing, but there could have been a lot of misinterpretation and that didn't help her that now there's she speaks English, now it's being translated through Ger through French, then recorded into German.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like who knows what she actually even said?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: It could have been so convoluted at that point.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot gets lost in translation there.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the two that ended up with the the sentences of death were Edith and then um a person who was an architect.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think he was a Belgian architect, but his name was Philip Bach.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he also helped the cause uh, you know, equally as much as she did because he was the one figuring out all the transport for people.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like he was the one uh kind of the mastermind behind who would go where and when, and really maintaining all the timetables and the logistics of the moves.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: So they were seen as the two biggest like offenders.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: There hadn't been a lot of people in on it.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's how brave.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's one thing to be brave to be a nurse during uh working for the Red Cross during World War One, but another to take it a step farther and risk your life and other people's lives by getting fugitives out.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not fugitives, that's also the wrong word.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Helping people escape.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Scary while the Germans are there.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oof, no, thank you.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: And when they finally gave her her sentence, it was like late night, October 11th, 1915.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: So they just finally decide, okay, you know, her sentence is death by firing squad.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: And instead of like usually when they deliver a sentence, there might be a couple days before there's an actual carry-out of the sentence.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: They decide to do this the next day, the following day, October 12th, 1915, at 7 a.m.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's less than 12 hours from when she receives the sentence, her and Bach, to where they are marched out to have this being be carried out.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: And she was said to be extremely composed.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: She obviously was in prison for 10 weeks, so she kind of knew what was coming for her.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but she had the most like eloquent quotes before she was taken, and they even said the final thing that she wrote in her diary, the night that she knew you know was going to be her last.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: She said, like October 12th, 1915, like Edith Cavill died.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: At 7 a.m.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: At 7 a.m.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: 12 hours is not enough.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: To find out at 8 30 p.m.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to lose your life to firing squad by 7 a.m.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: the next morning.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I always feel for these victims that have this type of ending.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like we saw it with Anne Boleyn when it was like she was told on different days, like, the swordsman's here, this is going to be your execution day.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and she kind of was like, What's the hold up?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why do I have to keep waiting?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to I think those moments where it's like you you know what your fate is, you're kind of prepared to meet death, yeah, and it's just like either thrust upon you very quickly, or you have a little bit too much time and you're left wondering.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, you know, I always I always hate to hear these stories of like, oh yeah, you know, your sentence on this day, you die in the morning.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the night before she took her last communion and she had some pretty impactful words, or her final words that she shared.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Some of which are uh even put on statues and placed throughout Europe to this day.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the full quote was I am thankful to have had these ten weeks of quiet to get ready.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now I have had them and have been kindly treated here.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: I expected my sentence and I believe it was just Standing as I do in view of God in eternity, I realize that patriotism is not enough.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's beautiful.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about a sweet soul.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like heart of gold to be, you know, going through all of that, treated as you are, and then at the end just saying, like, you know, this is my fate.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Just to say that it's just like I've had time to reflect on this and I I'm ready.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Which I mean, I always we always think about how we would react in such a state.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the more time you have to prepare, the more you do have to think of something fairly eloquent and how you want to be remembered.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you don't necessarily Really want to just be seen as like kicking and screaming and mad about it because it's not gonna change what happens to you.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you might as well have some eloquent, thoughtful last words that obviously for her got put on a statue.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, remain poised.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: So she was executed with Bach, the other um the other person involved in in this whole scheme, this whole um intricate underground system they had going on.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there were 16 riflemen in total, eight for Bach and eight for Edith Cavill.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we talked about this before, I think when we did the Matahari episode about firing squads.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: But a big reason why a firing squad was a was a popular way for an execution to go was because the gunmen felt less guilty because no one knew who shot the person.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're all firing at the same person, you know, maybe my bullet doesn't hit them at all.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: And you can kind of live with yourself of like, oh, I wasn't the one who executed this poor nurse.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: When there's eight of you, any one of you could have been killed and thus or any one of you could have killed her, thus, none of you really have like quote unquote blood on your hands.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it wasn't in an effort to get it done quickly.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Also, it was tradition that some might have blanks or some might have false bullets because then in the back of your mind, you're like, even if I hit her, maybe my bullet wasn't actually a bullet.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it it's in no way to comfort the victim.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really for the soldiers purpose.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: There are some tall tales and some rumors, and it was more so to garner sympathy for her after this had happened, but there are some like pictures of her laying on the ground because they said as they brought her up to the place where she was to be executed, that she fainted.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: So she apparently was very courageous her whole life and at this last moment faints, and then they show like a German standing over her, like point blank, shooting her like in the head.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like that was pretty much like like I think it's been decided that that was false.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: If she died by firing squad, you know, in the way that we described previous.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: That was more so to put on a poster so they could really it was for the Americans to show the Americans like looks look at what's happening over in Europe, like you need to be involved in this war.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: They're yeah, they are killing nurses on the ground point blank.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like they really wanted to dri like dramatize it.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they did kill a nurse, but it was not in that fashion.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this was so silly.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Her death sentence was technically formally and publicly declared hours after she had already died, because again, they did all this so quickly and they came to her cell at 8 30 the night before saying, by the way, this is gonna happen at 7 in the morning.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't even get an opportunity to formally put it out there.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of a little bit half-ass backwards there.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Cart before the horse.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh initially, right when it happens, she's buried next to St.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Giles Prison.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Giles Prison.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Then after the war was over, they move her body to Westminster Abbey for memorial service.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: They also did a memorial service at St.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Paul's.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: So at this point, she is becoming very much like the face of sympathy during the war.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she became probably the most famous British female who lost her life during World War One.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and then she was transported to Norwich Cathedral, which is her hometown in England.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the king had to allow an exception for there to be a a reburial at this cathedral because they had put in laws that there'd be normal burials at this cathedral, but he made the exception for her to be in her hometown and reburied in her home church, which is nice.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, especially because you know her father was a reverend as well.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: So she was pretty close to her faith.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure her family and she probably would have wanted that too in her life.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but one thing she didn't want that she was pretty clear on is in those 10 weeks where she thought a lot about her life and death, she had said specifically, you know, I don't want to be known as a martyr, and I don't want to be seen as some sort of angel.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think she knew, like she put in her work, she helped save a lot of people, like she felt good in her heart about that, but she did it because she wanted to, and not because she was trying to build some sort of legacy where people would point to her and say, Oh, what a beautiful, great person, you know, who was a martyr for the cause and who's an angel from above.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she really didn't want that like image.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: She was like, just see me as a good nurse.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, she was probably obviously very smart.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: So she's like, you know, I that identify what I did for the hospitals, or like, you know, give me that kind of praise.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: Don't just see me as a martyr and an angel.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I also don't think she wanted to be victimized.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted to she, I don't think in any way would she have approved of this image of her fainting and then being taken out before she, you know, was even cognizantly aware of what was happening.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted to go down as a strong woman, which I think she was personally, but like, yeah, let's talk a little bit about the propaganda that continued on after this.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, perfect word to use because this was when propaganda was really like coming about.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: And again, like this is the the social media of the age, right?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, how do we garner sympathy from people?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: How do we get people on our side?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we're gonna create these elaborate, dramatic posters, you know, of these glorious or or sad events to really evoke people's emotions and get them to want to be involved in the war.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, like we said, the image of her laying down with the German soldier standing over her, she's even in a nurse costume in the photo.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think after 10 weeks in prison, she probably wasn't still wearing her nurse uniform perfectly pressed.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: With the red cross perfectly on.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but they wanted to say, Germans are murdering our female nurses.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: So she really, you know, her her life took on a whole nother meaning after her death because it was like not just about, again, her and her work, it was about making her this this figure of female innocence, of British innocence, of French innocence, you know, of uh of people that worked in the medical profession, innocence, you know, to be like, look how monstrous the Germans are.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like look what they're doing to people.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: But she has gone down in history.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I was surprised by this just one year after her death in 1916.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: They already made a movie about her.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: 1916.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about progressive.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm always I always say that when movies come out current day that are made of an event from like the year before.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: How did they already make this movie?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: They were on it to do it in 1916 is insane.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she was also on one of the the the 2015 like memorial coins in England.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think it really is just a testament to this day.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: She's kind of the face of not only nursing, but also of I think fem female contributions during the war as well.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can't yes, there were thousands and millions of soldiers, but let's not overlook the nurses and the women who helped out and also gave their lives.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: She wasn't a criminal.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't categorize her as being a criminal.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, she totally knew what she was doing, but she was prepared for that risk.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: And she was prepared because she, as soon as she was arrested, she's like, Yeah, I've been doing this.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you and I think she was she knew she was gonna do this.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: She knew all along, hey, if I get caught, I'm not gonna drag it out and deny it.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, she's gonna own up to it.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Very open and honest to the fact that she had all of the numbers even ready about how many people she had helped and transported.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: Everything doctors ready, yeah.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: Which obviously didn't help her, but um, she wasn't ashamed of what she did.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I and I think you know, her the acknowledgement of who she was in this day and age, you know, isn't just from all the propaganda.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, that helped perpetuate her image.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like that that definitely helped get you know get her on a world stage.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: And another movie in 1939 came out about her.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's probably gonna be another one in 1936.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: 2027.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get this going.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm picturing like a Nicole Kidman type.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, she's a little old now.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean she's Australian, but but I was gonna say, but this goes down like next to the sinking of the Lusitania ship, which was a ship like similar on the scale of Titanic that was torpedoed by the Germans as like an act of like, how could you do this against someone so innocent who's not involved in the war?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: So those are almost the two things in World War I that both stand as these examples of like again really showing how atrocious World War I was, especially like what the Germans did in terms of stopping at no cost to like uh to take charge of their cause.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Which, as promised, we wanted to share the statement that the Germans made about this whole ordeal with Edith.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: They completely stood by what they did.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the German Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Alfred Zimmerman, made a press statement, yeah, quite modern, about about the situation.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: He said it was a pity that Miss Cavill had to be executed, but it was necessary.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: She was judged justly.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is undoubtedly a terrible thing that the woman has has been executed.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: But consider what would happen to a state, particularly in a war, if it left crimes aimed at the safety of its armies to go unpunished because they were committed by women.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: So brave.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: So brave of him.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: So feminist, such a progressive man there.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the way he kind of nonchalantly, like, yeah, she was executed.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: She had to have been.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was necessary because she committed a crime.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, on one hand, so cold.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: On one hand, like I guess the way it's so objective is at least they stood by their guns.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he didn't back down.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um Well, there was even we watched a documentary about Edith, and there I we didn't read it um online, but it was funny because apparently there was also an incident where like German nurses were taken by the French, like two German nurses, and they were executed.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then when they like asked the Germans, like, you know, do you have a comment essentially on this?
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I don't want to say they did it just to rile them up and have them defend the nurses, but it was ironic, not really, but like the Germans just came back and were like, Yeah, they committed crimes.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: Of course they were executed.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it was just so black and white to them.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and you still stand by what's your take.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so no distinction of sexes there.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a crime is a crime, right?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's black and white.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: You do the crime, you do the time, and the sentence.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we will say, going back to the whole speculation that she was a spy, apparently there was new evidence that came out in 2015 where um there was a woman who I believe was part of MI5, like British Intelligence.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've got her name here, Stella Remington.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: Stella Remington came forward and said that she was looking through like the Belgian archives from the time, and she said she found records like from Edith that were written in code, like essentially proving that she was in fact a spy and passing on information.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: But she did comment that like it wasn't super sophisticated, like maybe she learned the codes here and there and did pass on some information, but that didn't mean she was like a trained special undercover agent.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like she might have just been involved in the network.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think that was her primary motive.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think it started off with her just wanting to help and save people and get them out, right?
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe, of course, they see her as a tool of you know, hey, while you're doing this, can we also figure out some things because you're really good at being secret and figuring things out?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think her primary motive was to be quote unquote, I am a spy.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think she had I I think she truly obviously was a nurse.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think she proven it.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted to be a nurse, and I think overall her goal was just to help people and save people and do something for the greater good.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Edith, for your contributions to saving about 200 people during World War One.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it's those small things that really tip the morale in a war, you know.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_02: You never know how far those things ripple.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: The kindness of a nurse.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they wrote her thank you letters afterwards.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, doesn't that kind of pull out your heart a little bit?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: That is sweet.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: That'd be a nice exhibit to see if they had any of the letters still.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're incriminating for her.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to put that in writing, but coming from a good place.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Good intentions.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Good intentions.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: And again, we won't remember her as a martyr and we won't remember her as an angel because that's not what she wants.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: We will remember her as a very smart, brave female who really wasn't afraid to do anything it took to save lives.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and she um she was brave through the consequences, so Elizabeth.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that beautiful story on this very new year's first episode of 2025.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why getting sentimental on that.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in the in the again, it's not quite the year of the snake, but in honor of a new year.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we we bring you Edith Cavill.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: Any final words?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not today.