Latest / Math Therapy / It’s never too late to change your relationship with math

Transcript

It’s never too late to change your relationship with math · Math Therapy

• 0:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay guys, it is Vanessa and we are here for another week of Math Therapy.
• 0:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: And let me tell you, we are legitimately doing something we have never done before.
• 0:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, if you are a long time listener, or if you literally have only listened to one episode, you will know that I will not shut up about texting the podcast.
• 0:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm always like, oh my God, text the podcast this.
• 0:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God.
• 0:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: Share this episode with a friend and then text the podcast and send me a message and text the podcast and text the podcast if you think this, and text the podcast if you want another guest.
• 0:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: And like I'm obsessed with you guys texting the podcast.
• 0:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: And let me tell you that today, this is finally going to pay off.
• 0:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because guess what?
• 0:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: A bunch of you have been texting the podcast since this feature was introduced, like three months ago, and now I have a bunch of texts from you.
• 0:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: And today we are going to do a mailbag episode where I read out some of these incredible texts and I respond to them in real time, live on the podcast.
• 0:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Before I continue, I actually have a ton of these texts.
• 0:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I'm only gonna do a few of them today.
• 1:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna do a few of them another day.
• 1:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: But I actually have to tell you that now not only can you text the podcast, you can do my favorite fucking thing, which is you can send the podcast a voice note.
• 1:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Sorry, I got so excited there.
• 1:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: I couldn't even say it.
• 1:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: You can send us a voice note.
• 1:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: So now when you go to the your app or wherever you're listening right now, there will be like a thing that says like, send us a text or send us a message.
• 1:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know what it says.
• 1:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: You can click on that and you can now either send us a text or you can send us a voice note.
• 1:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: Final thing I'm gonna say, I know that many of you are probably like, I sent a text a million years ago.
• 1:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: What happened to it?
• 1:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: We can't respond to the text.
• 1:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: We can only see the text.
• 1:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: But in addition to the voice note feature, we can now respond to your text.
• 1:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm not actually saying we're going to respond to your text.
• 1:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: We might never respond to your text, but we are getting them and maybe we'll respond to them live.
• 1:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna stop now, but I will say one other thing.
• 1:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: I also want you to be able to text or voice note the podcast without the pressure of being like, oh my God, she's gonna play this live.
• 1:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: If you do not want me to like say your text out loud or play your voice note live, just say so in your text or voice note.
• 2:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm done.
• 2:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Are we ready for text number one?
• 2:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: All the way from Phoenix, Arizona.
• 2:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: Anonymous, no name.
• 2:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was slash am a gifted learner and was placed in a gifted class.
• 2:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was always so afraid in math.
• 2:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was put with kids a year older and always felt like I didn't belong.
• 2:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: I could not memorize my facts and remember being in high school, counting on my fingers.
• 2:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: So even though I was labeled gifted, it was a huge struggle for me.
• 2:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Now as a teacher who has taught kinder, then fourth math for 10 years before moving to a position where I see multiple grades and teach eighth grade algebra, now I see how these kids' perceptions of what they can do has changed so much between kinder to eighth.
• 2:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: I just would love to know your thoughts on gifted programs and placements and supporting even these gifted kids who the world labels as high potential and neglects to see that they too struggle and in my experience, need Math Therapy the most.
• 3:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 3:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: First of all, whoever sent this text, I am so with you.
• 3:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 3:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: This one is actually really, really, interesting.
• 3:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because I always say that one of the major causes of math trauma is actually simply being labeled.
• 3:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: It doesn't matter what you're labeled, right?
• 3:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: It doesn't matter if the labeled is quote unquote, a good label or quote unquote, a bad label.
• 3:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: When we are labeled, all of a sudden we are put into a box.
• 3:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: And whether it's a box we are willingly walking into or a box that we are unwillingly enclosed in, it is still a box.
• 3:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: A box is limiting.
• 3:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: A box has walls, a box is a certain size.
• 3:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: So anytime we suddenly feel like we no longer fit that box that we have been put into, it causes some sort of crisis of identity.
• 3:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: It causes us to feel like we don't belong and this happens so often with the gifted label.
• 3:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: There's actually a lot of research right now from kids who were once labeled as gifted.
• 3:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: I will admit, I actually was in a gifted program for grade seven and eight.
• 3:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: There's a lot of research showing that these kids will say, it was one of the worst things that happened to me.
• 4:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: What does gifted mean?
• 4:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: What does it mean?
• 4:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Think about it.
• 4:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: Being gifted is supposed to imply that you have a gift.
• 4:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Not that you've developed or like earned or conjured this gift, but you have been born with this gift.
• 4:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: You are this like smart, above intelligent person of some sort.
• 4:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: So what happens is, when kids feel like they're not living up to the gift or they start struggling in math class, instead of feeling like, oh, this is just like struggle, like, oh, this is just like a mistake I made a year ago, oh, this is just another challenge, they often feel like, oh shit.
• 4:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: I guess I've lost the gift.
• 4:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: The gift has expired.
• 4:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's over.
• 4:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: My time is done.
• 4:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because giftedness implies innateness.
• 4:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: It implies nature over nurture.
• 4:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: And, and this happens a lot.
• 4:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: You will see this with kids who are the quote unquote smart kid or who haven't struggled in math traditionally, and then suddenly they hit a concept or a grade where they struggle, all of a sudden, because they haven't been taught intelligence or math ability are things that are built and they can construct and they can continue to evolve, they start thinking, I've lost it.
• 5:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: My time is done.
• 5:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm only smart up to a certain level, and I'm not meant to exceed that level.
• 5:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: To me, the gifted label actually imposes on kids a whole other level of imposter syndrome because now you're being told you are supposed to not need support in math, you're supposed to be more mathematically capable than your peers that are not in that classroom.
• 5:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: So now when you struggle or you face a challenge, now you're an imposter not only to mathematics, but to the gifted population, right?
• 5:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like you're like now, I'm not only an imposter in math class, I'm an imposter in this gifted class.
• 5:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm an imposter to mathematics and to giftedness.
• 5:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Just because someone looks like they've got it all together, it doesn't mean they're not falling apart inside.
• 5:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: And just because a kid is getting a good grade, it doesn't mean they actually understand the concepts.
• 5:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Often you can get a good grade just by following patterns and formulas and mimicking a procedure and not conceptually understanding.
• 6:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: Just like all of that.
• 6:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Just because a kid is labeled gifted, or getting a good grade, or is labeled, quote, I'm using air quotes a lot here, smart, it doesn't mean that they're not struggling.
• 6:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: It doesn't mean that they're not anxious.
• 6:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: It doesn't mean that their identity is not in need of repair.
• 6:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: So thank you so much for sending that in.
• 6:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: It is something we don't talk about enough and I'm really, really glad you brought it up.
• 6:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 6:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: Onto text number two.
• 6:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: Hi, my name is Juliette and I'm an educator in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
• 6:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: I recently found and love your podcast.
• 6:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have a like mindset and take a similar educational approach with my students.
• 6:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: My teaching journey has led me from tolerating math to honestly falling in love with it.
• 6:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: I've worked in elementary, middle school, and I'm starting as a high school math teacher this January.
• 6:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Your podcast has pumped me up.
• 6:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you for the work you're doing.
• 6:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: Ugh.
• 6:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: I mean, I love to hear it.
• 6:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Juliet, thank you so much for sending this in because this is exactly what I mean when I say we can all build better, healthier, happier relationships with math.
• 7:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: Our relationship with math is not fixed, and I love that you pointed out that you went from tolerating it to loving it, right?
• 7:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is what an identity shift is all about.
• 7:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: When we talk about building healthier math identities, we are talking not only about the person who goes from hating math to tolerating math right, from the person who goes from hating math to at least giving math a try.
• 7:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: That, by the way, is a very important identity shift, but when we can then take that next leap from tolerating math to loving it, that is a really beautiful thing.
• 7:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: And Juliet, thank you for reminding us all that.
• 7:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: It is possible, and it's possible because you didn't just become a different person.
• 7:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: You had a different experience of math that led you to becoming who you are today.
• 7:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so we are moving on to text number three.
• 7:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I'd like to point out, we just went from like the, I'm gifted, but I'm still struggling and moved on to a big identity piece of like, I used to hate math and now I love it.
• 8:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: And now I wanna dig a little into a couple of texts that point to what's underneath all that.
• 8:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: And we are gonna go over to a text from my hometown, Toronto, Ontario.
• 8:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 8:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: Finally, catching up on my to-do list listen.
• 8:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think the nature versus nurture debate for being a math person or a music person or a memory person is a false dichotomy.
• 8:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm no brain scientist, but since there's no math gene, all got to be brain-based, right?
• 8:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: So if neuroplasticity is at such a peak in childhood and adolescence, students can build math identity and ability at those stages of life really easily.
• 8:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Adults can still train their brains, but they're a bit less flexible.
• 8:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: So back it up into infancy and into the womb, and it's all about neurons and brain connections.
• 8:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's all neuroplasticity at every stage, and at some stages we have more of it and others we have less of it, but it's all the same mechanism.
• 8:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's what makes sense to me anyway.
• 8:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so here's what I'm thinking with this one.
• 8:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: I love that this person actually said, I'm no brain scientist, right in their text.
• 8:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because guess what?
• 8:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Neither am I.
• 9:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think this was in response to my interview with Dr.
• 9:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: Sarah McKay, which was called what neuroscience actually says about gender and math.
• 9:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I would actually go back to that episode, and listen to it again because Dr.
• 9:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: Sarah McKay is a neuroscientist and she addresses a lot of this.
• 9:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think what I'd wanna zoom out a bit on this, is this.
• 9:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yes, we're talking about neuroplasticity and we're talking about brain wiring and such, but what we're really talking about and what you're talking about in this text, mysterious Toronto author, is that experience and emotion and identity all merge together and play a role in not only our math ability, but in the way we end up feeling about math, right?
• 9:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Two kids can be born with similar brain potentials and they might have completely different math identities depending on the experience they have with math.
• 9:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: So yes, it is brain-based and it's brain-based, because we're talking about neuroplasticity, we're talking about things happening in the brain with regards to learning, but.
• 10:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think we have to be very careful with the mechanism by which that takes place.
• 10:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't think, I mean, I definitely don't know what it is, that's why I talk to experts about how it works.
• 10:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: But I think the key takeaway is go listen to that episode with Dr.
• 10:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Sarah McKay because she really addresses in their how much of math ability has to do with genetics, like how much it has to do with the brain you're born with, and how much of it has to do with like yes, like things are happening in your brain, but those things are malleable depending on the experiences you have.
• 10:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's a nurture versus nature argument.
• 10:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I don't even wanna say argument.
• 10:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's a nurture versus nature discussion.
• 10:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: So yes, brain base as in things are happening in our brain, but really experience and emotion and identity shapes so much of what our math ability turns out becoming, how it manifests in reality.
• 10:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 10:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Let's move on to another text from Toronto, Ontario.
• 10:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm not being biased, I swear these ones were just very juicy.
• 11:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: One important idea for showing your thinking is that kids often can't explain their thinking or show their steps because math is so naturally human and kids are natural mathematicians who've been sold a story that math is something out there with steps and symbols that must be memorized.
• 11:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: The math itself is intuitive and kids can demonstrate pretty sophisticated algebraic reasoning skills if approached visually instead of symbolically.
• 11:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: So instead of saying that they need to learn how to show their thinking or explain their steps, I tell my students that they have to learn the arbitrary symbolic representations that people have assigned to the great mathematical thinking that they already know how to do.
• 11:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: The math is in them.
• 11:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's a natural way that humans make sense of their world.
• 11:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: They just need to learn to listen to themselves first and fit the notation and symbols to it later.
• 11:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Honestly, this is a really, really interesting take and I think probably many of us would agree.
• 11:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: There's been a lot of conversation around getting kids to think.
• 11:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think that actually, there's two ways I wanna talk about this.
• 12:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: The first is there's so much discourse right now around being like, kids are not thinking, they haven't been thinking, oh my God, like we have suddenly realized they've never thought a single thought, they've just been copying down every single thing happening in math class.
• 12:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: And, I think we are just being a little bit too extra with that.
• 12:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: And what I hear in this text is this idea of like, kids are thinking just because they can't show their thinking, it does not mean that they are not thinking.
• 12:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I think that's the first thing I wanna say is like, yeah, I think a lot of kids, I mean, I think, I think there are some kids and adults and who and learners period who like, are maybe doing a little mimicking and following procedures and don't necessarily fully conceptually understand every mathematical concept.
• 12:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think there are a lot of people who conceptually understand it, but cannot explain it to someone else or show their thought process.
• 12:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Doesn't mean they're not thinking.
• 12:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Now this, because we did an entire episode about showing your thinking, and that's definitely what this is in response to.
• 12:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I, the second piece of this argument is not only are a lot of kids thinking, but when they can't show their thinking, it's A, not because they're not thinking, but B, because sh they don't know how to show their thinking and the way we want them to see it.
• 13:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 13:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: This writer is talking about using the specific notation in which we're asking them to show their thinking.
• 13:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I think this is a really interesting point, like they're saying here that what they say there's to their students is, Hey, I know you're thinking.
• 13:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: You just need to learn the arbitrary symbolic representations that people have assigned to the great mathematical thinking that you know.
• 13:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's what I'm here to teach you.
• 13:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm not teaching you how to think you've already got this.
• 13:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're awesome.
• 13:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: You know how to think.
• 13:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna show you this like code with which to demonstrate to the rest of the world that you understand this concept.
• 13:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have to think about this.
• 13:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: I mean, I think it's, I think it's, yes.
• 13:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think there is a bit of that for sure.
• 13:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I actually kind of like that approach in the sense that you're empowering them and being like, I already know that you know how to think about this thing.
• 13:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna give you some tools that I want you to show me your thinking with.
• 13:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: But I also think it's about the confidence, for kids to be like, yeah, whatever way you're thinking about this, whatever way you got the answered, I respect that.
• 14:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: You don't have to worry that what's gonna come outta your mouth is something I don't want to hear.
• 14:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I actually think there's two pieces here.
• 14:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I like that approach of being like, I believe that you know what you're doing and I'm gonna show you this notation with which to show me.
• 14:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: But the thing I like most about that piece is the confidence you're giving the student.
• 14:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: To be like, I know you know what you're doing.
• 14:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: Sometimes it's hard to explain the things we already intuitively know, like that's hard for us.
• 14:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you know, I talked about this in an episode with Cat and Nat, the two moms, which was very controversial because they were talking about how they hate algebra, cause they hate the letters, they were like talking about how they can't can't stand the X and the Y.
• 14:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I was talking about how when I taught algebra, I would always introduce it to kids with emojis.
• 14:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I'd be like two heart plus, three star equals, actually, you can't do that.
• 14:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's like apples and oranges.
• 14:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 14:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: But like, you know what I mean?
• 14:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I'd be, I would do stuff like that.
• 14:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'd be like, I like, like I would do it to collect like terms honestly.
• 15:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: So it's like two heart plus, three star plus four hearts, plus two stars.
• 15:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: So that would be six hearts.
• 15:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Why am I doing this in my head?
• 15:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Why am I, but you know what I'm saying?
• 15:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: My point is it made it so much easier for them to be gathering and collecting.
• 15:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right.
• 15:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I wonder if we can do something similar with showing your thinking.
• 15:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: I wonder actually if the first step before being like, I know that you understand this and now let me teach you this notation with which to show me, I wonder if the first step, which I know many do anyways.
• 15:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: But I wonder if that like sort of like bridge is being like, okay, I know you know you're thinking something, you don't know how to explain it.
• 15:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: Can you explain it to me in any words you want?
• 15:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Using any symbols you want.
• 15:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I think that is actually what a lot of educators are doing right now.
• 15:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: Being like, you can show me your thinking in any way.
• 15:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: You can make me a TikTok to show me your thinking.
• 15:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: You can draw me a picture.
• 15:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: You can like do an interpretive dance.
• 15:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, I don't know, do something to explain this concept to me in your world.
• 16:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: And then we can move on to the like, official way fine.
• 16:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like if you're doing proofs in college, you can't like show me that with an interpretive dance.
• 16:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: Although like, honestly, I would like to see that.
• 16:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: So yeah, I feel like the first stepping stone is giving kids the confidence.
• 16:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Then it's allowing them to speak to you in their language.
• 16:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's their thinking.
• 16:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: They should be allowed to use their language and then we can move on to like, let's show you how to do it officially.
• 16:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so let's move on to text number five from Nina, from Langhorne, Pennsylvania.
• 16:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: I love saying these.
• 16:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: I haven't been to any of these places except for Toronto.
• 16:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 16:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God.
• 16:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: We should do a podcast tour where I come to the places, guys, this is my dream, I'm actually gonna say it right now.
• 16:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am manifesting a podcast tour.
• 16:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: That would be so cool.
• 16:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like.
• 16:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: I tour with a podcast.
• 16:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Me and David like do shows and do interviews by day and take questions.
• 16:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: And then we play a show with our band at night.
• 16:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God.
• 16:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Can't wait to play Langhorn, Pennsylvania.
• 16:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: Did I say Longhorn?
• 16:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's Langhorn.
• 16:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 16:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: I started listening to the episode about showing your work as I was heading into a day of grade level meetings, discussing work samples from students.
• 17:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: One suggestion I shared with a fourth grade team was for students to make a video on Google slide of their problem solving steps and mathematical thinking before they have to write or type it out.
• 17:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Then I heard your fourth strategy of outer process.
• 17:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: Great minds think alike.
• 17:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thanks for sharing, Nina.
• 17:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, this is crazy because this is basically exactly what I just said.
• 17:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: Nina, you rock.
• 17:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: I first of all, Nina, if you're listening, I would love to know what happened with this idea.
• 17:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: Are they doing it?
• 17:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is your fourth grade team allowing students to make videos on Google slide of their problem solving steps?
• 17:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because I love that.
• 17:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is the thing.
• 17:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: So in that episode about showing your work, I was explaining that speaking is lower pressure than writing.
• 17:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 17:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because like you don't have to put something down like, this is why I like the podcast and I really like, uh, writing is like, is just a lot for me.
• 17:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's a commitment.
• 17:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're putting words to paper.
• 17:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: You can see the words as they come out.
• 17:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: That being said, a lot of people love journaling.
• 17:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because they feel it allows them to outer process.
• 17:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: But honestly for most people, talking is a lot more low lift.
• 18:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: It just, it literally is lower effort.
• 18:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 18:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I think there's two things here.
• 18:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Some people might be more comfortable just like writing it all out in a journal format, and other people like me would be more comfortable just saying it out loud, talking, making you a video, explaining it to a friend.
• 18:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because when we outer process, thinking becomes visible and not only does thinking become visible to the person listening to us, it becomes visible to us.
• 18:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: As we hear the words coming out of our mouth, often that allows our brain to process what it is thinking in real time in a real tangible way.
• 18:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: So this goes exactly to what I said to who was it?
• 18:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Who was this person from?
• 18:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Toronto.
• 18:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: We don't know, there's no name.
• 18:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: But this is the same thing in whatever way a student wants to show their thinking, whatever they feel is like their clutch way to outer process that makes them feel at home and less anxious, that is the way they should be allowed to show their thinking to start.
• 19:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: And, this actually to me, like as I'm saying this, see, I'm outer processing, I'm thinking, and I'm coming up with an idea as I'm saying this, I'm thinking, what a great exercise before, like when you start the year or like when you start next week, just sit with your class and be like, okay guys, let's do a like little, like get to know ourselves.
• 19:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: What is each of our favorite, most comfortable way to explain how we're thinking or what is our most comfortable way, if you're having a problem and you can't figure it out what it is, and you don't know how you're feeling, what's your favorite way to figure it out?
• 19:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is it to A, talk to a friend.
• 19:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: B, curl up and write in your journal.
• 19:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: C, start ranting about it on social media.
• 19:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: DI don't know, some options like this, and based on what they say, turn that into an assignment of this is how you're gonna show the way you are thinking about this problem.
• 19:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: The same way when you're in a bad mood and you can't figure out what's wrong, you would process that, do that with, this is a great assignment idea.
• 19:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Can you do guys, try this.
• 19:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Try this.
• 19:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Nina, thank you so much for writing in.
• 20:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 20:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: We only have two left and we are now on text number six from Atlanta, Georgia.
• 20:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: I was actually there for NCTM last year.
• 20:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have no idea where this will end up, but I'll give it a shot.
• 20:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm really hoping to get a signed Math Therapy book for my son's teacher, who is that math teacher, for our whole family.
• 20:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 20:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm already gonna cry.
• 20:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: She has completely turned my sons and my attitude around.
• 20:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Last year we dreaded math.
• 20:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: We argued.
• 20:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: I complained.
• 20:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: You could feel the tension wherever there was a math test.
• 20:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: In retrospect, I put so much pressure on this one class.
• 20:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: This year, math is my son's favorite subject, and we work together to figure it out.
• 20:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: We both talk about how far we've both come and can laugh at the drama of third grade.
• 20:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: It has gone from impossible to figureoutable because of Sister Beth.
• 20:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yep.
• 20:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: The amazing math teacher who introduced me to your book and podcast is a nun.
• 20:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you for everything you do, and if there's any way to get a signed book for Sister Beth, that would be amazing.
• 20:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Guys.
• 20:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so listen, there's no name.
• 20:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know who you are, but I am praying.
• 20:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: See what I did there, um, sorry.
• 21:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: I honestly am praying that you are listening right now'cause I would love to get a signed copy to Sister Beth, but I don't know how.
• 21:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna be honest.
• 21:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: What I did after I read this text is I tried to find Sister Beth online.
• 21:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: I Googled Sister Beth Math Atlanta, Georgia.
• 21:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: And it just, nothing that came up like seemed like it could have been her.
• 21:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 21:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: So if anyone who knows Sister Beth is listening, if anyone who knows who the author of this text is listening, if the author of this text is listening, email me vanessa@themathguru.ca with your info and Sister Beth's info and I will mail her a signed copy.
• 21:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is so cool.
• 21:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: And what I all, guys, what I wanna highlight for everyone is, I love how you said in here she is that math teacher for our whole family and she has completely turned my son's and my attitude around.
• 21:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: It just shows that that is Math Therapy in action.
• 21:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: You know that math trauma really is generational and it's never too late.
• 21:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's never too late to fix your relationship with math.
• 22:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is honestly so cool.
• 22:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 22:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: Final text of the day, from Steve from Northern Minnesota: i'm a new listener only about five or six episodes so far.
• 22:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have severe math anxiety and deep-seated math trauma for as long as I can remember.
• 22:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: However, after reading the book Is Math Real by Eugenia Chang, and then hearing your interview with her, I feel there might be hope for me yet.
• 22:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: I also just listened to the preview of your new book and to hear that there's no such thing as not a math person gives me very positive vibes towards math.
• 22:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: I can't wait to read your book and share it with my daughter who has the same aptitude towards math as myself.
• 22:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't want her to have to wait until she's almost 60 like me to realize that anybody can do it.
• 22:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: I teach at an aircraft maintenance technician school, and part of the curriculum is basic math and physics.
• 22:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's painful to see some of these kids who just graduated high school and think they can't do basic math, even when it's applied to a career path they chose.
• 22:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you for helping to destigmatize this mysterious world of mathematics.
• 22:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God.
• 22:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: What a, what a perfect text to end on.
• 22:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: Steve, honestly, first of all, the fact that you're doing this work now, that you're teaching math to these kids, that you're thinking about your daughter, that you at the age of 60 are like, I refuse for.
• 23:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: This like math trauma to be my identity, like I want to change and know I can change and believe I can, and I'm taking the steps, is so admirable.
• 23:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's so inspiring.
• 23:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know there's so many people listening right now who are just like you, who are probably so inspired by you.
• 23:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I just said in response to that last text, it's never too late.
• 23:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: It really is never too late.
• 23:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: And the coolest thing, Steve, is, as I said before, math trauma really can be generational, right?
• 23:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like it gets passed down, we can't help it.
• 23:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's just what happens so often, and you are causing that generational shift.
• 23:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: It starts with you and it's gonna trickle down towards your daughter, and it's gonna trickle down from there.
• 23:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: And it also emanates from you.
• 23:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: You are literally teaching kids.
• 23:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: They are in your classroom every day, and there is no better role model than the role model who's like, listen, kids, listen, kiddos, I felt exactly like you did.
• 24:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: I thought I couldn't do it, and here I am at the age of 60, proving myself wrong.
• 24:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: Proving that I can change.
• 24:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is so inspiring.
• 24:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because the truth is, we always feel too old to change, right?
• 24:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, just think about yourself as a teenager where you're like, oh, forget it.
• 24:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like it's grade nine.
• 24:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: I've always sucked at math, it's over.
• 24:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: You could think that then you could think that in grade seven you could be like, yeah, whatever.
• 24:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's done.
• 24:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like honestly, you could think that at any age, right?
• 24:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: So.
• 24:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: I remember like seeing this meme it's about the way you look, so it's a bit different, but it's always like, you know, it, the, the point of the meme is something along the lines of like, it's like someone looking at a picture of themselves 20 years ago and it's like, I can't actually remember what the meme is, but I think the point is, you know what I mean?
• 24:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's like right now I feel like I'm really, really old.
• 24:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: In 20 years I'm gonna look back on this time and be like, holy shit, I was so young then.
• 24:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: How did I think I was old?
• 24:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 24:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like, I think that's what you're really showing, and that's what the teacher or adult who has been carrying math baggage is modeling to people in front of them is, yeah, it always feels like it's too late to change, but the truth is it never is.
• 25:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: Every day is a great day to change.
• 25:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Every day is a great day to try something new.
• 25:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Every day is a great day to try to break through a limiting belief.
• 25:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Every day is a great day to rewire a neural pathway.
• 25:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: You are literally interrupting a cycle in real time in front of people who are looking to you with their own math trauma.
• 25:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: Math isn't about how fast you get it and you're showing them that it's about whether or not you feel that it's available to you.
• 25:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: And the fact that you still believe it is, and I know it is, and everyone listening is cheering you on right now, the fact that you still believe it is allows you to take the steps to access what is available to you.
• 25:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: But that has to date been inaccessible to you for so many reasons that are not your fault.
• 25:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: So thank you so much.
• 25:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is a perfect text to end on.
• 25:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: We are so proud of you.
• 25:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is so awesome.
• 25:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: I want you to keep us posted and I want you to remember that those students struggling in your class, that's not ability.
• 26:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's years of accumulated math identity.
• 26:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have a, um, student, an old student, Holly Mason.
• 26:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: I just had coffee with her last week and I'm gonna shout her out right now.
• 26:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: And she's now becoming a math teacher.
• 26:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: And she said, when she goes into classrooms, I loved this, she said, I always assume competence, I don't assume prior knowledge.
• 26:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I was like, that is a beautiful line.
• 26:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Assume competence, but don't assume prior knowledge.
• 26:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: Those are two different things.
• 26:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: And that's what you're doing right now.
• 26:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: Those kids who are coming to you from high school that can't do basic math, it's not a competence issue, it's a prior knowledge issue, and you are the perfect person to show them that, to heal that, to teach them that basic math and to move them along the way.
• 26:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: So thank you so much, Steve.
• 26:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh, what was your name?
• 26:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: Steve?
• 26:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yes.
• 26:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 26:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you so much.
• 26:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you so much, Steve.
• 26:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you for everyone who wrote in.
• 26:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you guys for listening to the first Mailbag episode.
• 26:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: It is so inspiring to be in community with you guys, to be co-creating math healing with you guys.
• 26:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am just one person, and you guys are out there doing the work, so thank you.
• 27:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: It takes a village, and you guys are part of the Math Therapy community.
• 27:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Please text the podcast.
• 27:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Send the podcast a voice note.
• 27:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: We would love to showcase you on our next mailbag episode.
• 27:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: And if somebody knows Sister Beth or this person from Atlanta, Georgia, I'm now obsessed with getting them assigned a book, so please help me out.
• 27:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: All right.
• 27:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Until next week.
• 27:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: Same time, same place, same channel.
• 27:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Peace, love and pi.
• 27:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: ​final text for today from Steve, from Indianapolis, Indiana, Vanessa, and David.
• 27:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: My name is Steve from Northern Minnesota.
• 27:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: Wait, what?
• 27:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: No, that's confusing.
• 27:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is not Indiana.
• 27:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: Guys, I, I'm not that great at geography, but he Okay.
• 27:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: Steve from Indianapolis.
• 27:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: Maybe it's just, maybe it's how, why does it say that?
• 27:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: lemme start that again.