Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 355 - Processing the Deadly Shooting of Charlie Kirk

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Ep. 355 - Processing the Deadly Shooting of Charlie Kirk · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Speaker 1: A few minutes ago, mark, oscar Ray and myself walked into the studio and, as we were walking in, oscar asked me how I'm doing and the only word that came to mind at the moment was gutted, absolutely gutted, and I know that those of you watching right now who've heard about what happened to our brother, charlie Kirk, can relate to that word and many more words like shocked and heartbroken and disgusted and in utter disbelief.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I was in the studio here recording a live master class for some of the people that are part of our ministry and follow our ministry, and Mark and Oscar walk in, they sit down.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I'm still recording.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I had no idea what was going on.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I finish up about a minute later and I get the news and we just wanted to get together here in this room and be there for you, as we're there for each other right now.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: We're all walking around the office, kind of in a cloud, in total disbelief that this has happened, that Charlie Kirk, 31 years old, on a college campus in the United States of America, proclaiming truth, standing up for righteousness, and in a split second he's shot and killed.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: And so we want to be there for you as our friends who have followed the ministry, those of you that are struggling right now, trying to figure this out and ultimately talk about what do we do as believers, as followers of Christ, as ambassadors of the Lord in this world, and so, guys, I'd love to hear how you're processing this and how we can give hope to our friends as we try to hang on to hope in the Lord as well.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in fact, I had received a text from a family member who said hey, mark, I'm crying so hard I had to leave work.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I'm so devastated over Charlie's death.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Why would God let this happen?
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I don't understand.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Please help me to understand.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: He was doing such a good kingdom work and he was making such an impact.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Why, why, why?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I don't understand.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: And I think that her question resonates, with so many people, 31 years old, young, doing what he can do to make the message known.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: We had just texted back and forth five days ago.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: He just agreed to come on our podcast and you know, I'm just beside myself in shock over everything.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: And I told my family member.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I said listen, when we come across something we don't understand, we always have to fall back on that which we do understand.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: And what is it that we understand?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: We understand that God fall back on that which we do understand.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: And what is it that we understand?
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: We understand that God is not pacing back and forth.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Right now.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: There's no sweat on God's brow, he's not worried, he's good, he's glorious.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: All of our days were written before there was one of them, and though we were caught off guard, god was not caught off guard, and I think that it would do us well.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Instead of raising our fists to God, we would raise holy hands to God and we would echo the words of Job Though he slay me, I will trust in him.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: And it was a life that was spent well.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I've often said to my kids you know, I don't want you to live necessarily a long life, but a well life, right, a life well spent.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So many people have died at young ages.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Think of, like David Brainerd dying at the age of 29.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And so many others.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: You know missionaries dying really young.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: And we want to go why?
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: And we say, well, because they walked in the work which God prepared beforehand.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: And that's quite simply that this is the scriptural answer, right, that there was a work for them to do and they walked in that work and God then took those people home, and in this case, took Charlie home.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: God was not busy handling the orbit of planets, and then he was caught off guard and he said oh no, we forgot about Charlie.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: God is sovereign, which means he doesn't need our advice.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: He doesn't need our advice, he doesn't need our counsel.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: He doesn't he.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: He didn't.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: He didn't wake up this morning and, as one person put it, has it ever occurred to you that nothing has ever occurred to God right, that that God is still on his throne and there's gonna come a day when death is gonna come knocking for each and every one of us.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So what does this do and what should this do?
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Well, what this should do is this should stamp eternity on our eyelids, because there's a lot of video of Charlie's throwing hats out to the crowd.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: He's smiling, he's taking pictures with people, he's living his life and now he's before the presence of God because his race is over and he's worshiping at the feet of the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: And as difficult as it is for us to try to navigate through what just took place and try to make sense and put together, god knows, and if we can throw those two words together and have it be enough for us that God knows, and knowing the character of God and the attribute of God and all that he's doing, and that he's working all things together for our good and for his glory, then it is enough to know that God doesn't need our wisdom, he doesn't need counsel.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: If God needed counsel, you would not know about it, but he was due to speak here.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: No, god's not worried about that.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: And so that baton has been handed off.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: And let me say this young generation, you guys, are out there, and let me say grab a hold of that baton and run with it.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: That's good, and not just politically, but with a Christ-centric message, putting Christ at the center of all that we do, right, and whatever you do do, all to the glory of God.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: And I remember when I met him for the first time and I handed him Ray's book God has a wonderful plan for your life.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: And he asked me he said are you the author?
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: And I said no, I'm not an author, I go, we have some similar friends.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: And I started naming them off.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: And he asked me he said are you the author?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: And I said no, I I'm not an author.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: I go, we have some uh similar friends.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: And I started naming them off and he goes oh, wow, neat.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: And then I saw him about five minutes later and then he sent me a dm through uh twitter or x, uh gave me his phone number and he asked me to call him and and then he went on his podcast and he was talking about the book.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Uh, god has a wonderful plan for your, and he commended it through the moon.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I stand in awe because I know that even in the midst of this, god does all things well, amen.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: So confusion, sure Doubt about God?
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: No, no, there's no worry.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: You know, with me there's no second guessing if God is on his throne.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: You know, we've walked with God for too long, you know for that.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: We know that God is on his throne.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Where do I go from here?
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I think of the saying do the next thing, do the next thing from Jim Elliott's wife, when Jim Elliott had died.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: As a missionary she read a poem and inside that poem it said do the next thing and that next thing.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: It's go brush your teeth, hey, you can go tuck your kid into bed, you know, hey, uh, go go put more groceries inside the house right now.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Go tell your loved one you love them.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Give mom a call you know, do the next thing, do.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: What is that next thing?
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Do do what god has called you to do and you'll be walking in the work which god has prepared before him.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And we can never forget, never forget that we are God's poetry, we are his poem, we are his poema, that we are the expression of his heart as his child.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: If you're a Christian, the trophy of his grace on display.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: And the truth is that some of our numbers can be up tonight.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: You know, we don't know.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Charlie was planning for tomorrow.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: You look at his schedule.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: He had a full schedule.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: And guess what?
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: He fulfilled his full schedule.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: So a man plans his ways.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: The Lord directs his steps.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: But let it be known that God has ordained all of our days.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Before there was one of them.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: And right now we gather as a family, we put our hands on each other's shoulders, we wrap our arms around each other, we hold each other a little bit tighter, we love on each other a little bit more purely and we march forward on our knees, because this isn't a playground, it's a battleground.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: And as a battleground, the army of God marches forward on their knees, bearing one another's burdens and being there and fulfilling the law of Christ.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, mark, I love the way you put that.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: We know the God, who knows Our knowledge of him and the knowledge that he not only knows all things but does all things well.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: I'm always trying to like boil things down to their bare minimum, because you know there's so much potential for complication and intricacy and confusion in life.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Boil it down.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: God knows I know him and in that he also knows me.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: He knows my frame that it's butt dust.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: He knows my frailty as a person.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: He knows my pain, my struggle, my confusion.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: But just knowing that he knows that and knowing that he's sovereign and knowing that he loves me as his child, helps me to weather any storm.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean we walk around with a plastic smile and just yippee a.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: It just means that we know that all is well with our soul, yeah, and that god is still on the throne and that we can cling to him, who is life eternal.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, you know, ray, I I really would like to hear where, where you're at with this and with this and what this has already done in your heart.
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's stirred me up.
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: When I heard he was coming on the podcast, or contemplating coming on the podcast, I began watching more of his videos.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: I watched a lot and I remember thinking I'm going to be so intimidated, for a number of reasons, if he shows up at the ministry.
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: He was what?
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: Six foot seven, his intellect was through the roof.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: Every time I watched him I thought how could he grab all those words?
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: And yet the wonderful thing is he loved the Lord, he was unashamed of the gospel and that thrilled me to hear him give great arguments that were just so profound and so solidly based on scripture.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: So when I heard that he'd been shot, that broke my heart.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: But I wasn't surprised because he was so bold, so unafraid to speak against racism and reverse racism and things like that.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: He wasn't ashamed to bring it out.
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: And I remember just this morning I sent you and ken ham one of his videos and I said charlie kirk is awesome and I was meaning he's courageous to be able to speak up like that.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: And so what it's done for me is we were just talking yesterday at our as we're having a meeting and I suggested I wanted to go to 13 universities in southern california and do what charlie kirk did, and this has made me resolute to do that.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: I think of stephen.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: They made great lamentation over him and then, further out, done, if it's the same place.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: But when Saul of Tarsus created havoc within the church and he was killing Christians and torturing them, they that were scattered went everywhere preaching the word.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: So when the winds of adversity come upon us, they fan the flame, and I've found that in the past, when persecution comes um, I just feel stirred by the righteous, righteous indignation.
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: How dare the enemy take one of our generals?
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: This is going to stir up the soldiers of christ to do what we, what we're supposed to do to take the gospel to every creature.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: So what would thrill me more than anything is the christians got that same resolve.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Read the book of acts and thought, man, I'm not going to stop for anything.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: This has stirred my heart to do what Charlie was trying to do, but we're going to do it with an army.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, I wouldn't be surprised if you know that there is an army, righteous army, that rises up.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Right, and they live their lives in such a bold way.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: It makes the apostles in the book of Acts look lukewarm, right, that they call heaven and hell as a witness.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And I remember it was DL Moody who drew a circle in the center of his room, got inside that circle and said God, send a revival, but start with everybody inside the circle.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Right, if my people who are called by my name, right, if we humble ourselves, if we repent of our wicked ways.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: You know, and look at I am, I'm stirred up.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: You know, and look at I am, I'm stirred up.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: You know, and it's, it's not a shot of adrenaline that that's gonna, that's gonna wear off, it's no, there's inventory that takes place.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: What, what needs to go, what weight is on our backs?
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: We're trying to run a race.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: You know we're.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: How do you?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: How do you word it easy inside your book?
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: It's like a tugboat, if you would.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Instead, we're on a battleship.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: How did you word that?
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah well, we're acting like we're on a luxury cruise ship heading for the shores of Bora Bora, when in reality we're on a Higgins boat heading for the shores of Normandy.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, ray, what you said.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: And, oscar, I want you to jump in here too.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I know you have a lot to share.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: But what you said, ray, reminded me of Paul's words in Philippians 1, where he said but I want you to know, brethren, that the things which have happened to me have turned out for the furtherance of the gospel.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: And he goes on.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: He talks about.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: It's become evident to the whole palace guard and to all the rest of my change are in Christ, and most of the brethren in the Lord, having heard about my change, are much more bold to speak the word, proclaim the gospel without fear.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: So you think Paul's imprisoned and now the believers are being emboldened to preach the gospel.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: That got him in prison.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Talk about counterintuitive.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: But, like you're saying, that's what these things do for us.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: They make us say no, that cause that Charlie Kirk died for, which is truth, and you're right, he would unashamedly speak of Jesus, that gospel is worth dying for.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: What did Paul say?
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I don't count.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: My life, dear to me.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I count all things but rubbish.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I count all things but loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whom I've suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: And so there is that effect, and I pray it has that.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: And this is one of those things where, again, we don't understand.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: But God in his sovereignty, can be doing something marvelous that is beyond us.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: We would never have wanted this to happen and it's not something that we would ever in any way take delight in.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: But God somehow takes what Satan meant for evil and he uses it for good, for his glory.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: So that's what I'm hoping for.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: My first response when we saw that he had actually passed away because you informed me about the shot we were processing, that we told you and then Taney Phoebe and I went out to coffee for a meeting and we got the update that he had passed away.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: And one of my first responses was I was just processing the reality that a human being looked down the scope assuming there was a scope the scope of a barrel of a rifle and on the other side of that he saw an image bearer of God and he decided to pull the trigger and it just made me think what is it that would?
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: How could we do that?
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: Not we, how could somebody do that?
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: You know, not we.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: How could somebody do that?
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: And I just think so often when we talk about figures in the news, like Charlie Kirk or others, we see them on screens.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: It's almost like we talk about them like they're WWE people, like they're caricatures in a political story, and we forget that they're image bearers of God.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: You know who knows that morning this morning, yesterday morning Charlie probably was had his two kids, all both under two years old, I think one of them definitely under a year old, sitting on his lap.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, when we see them on our screens, we forget that they wake up in the morning and they make breakfast for their families.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: These are human beings.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: These are human beings.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: What is that?
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: What is a human being?
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: Not a pig, not a bird.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: It is an image bearer of God, and that's what makes that action so horrific is that he looked down the barrel of that scope and he marred the image of God by pulling that trigger.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: That's what makes that sin.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: He marred God, the image of God, and I love what you just said, mark, and the other guys as well, which is and if you're just tuning in, man, this is just this is just us live processing, as friends.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: We just got the news unscripted, live processing.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: I love what you just said.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: This kind of information, it can scare people into hiding.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: It can make them afraid.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: You know like we need to back off.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Just yesterday, I saw that Gen Z leads in new church attendance.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Think about that.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Gen Z right now leads in new church attendance and I mean just you look at the crowd that was there for Charlie Kirk and it was primarily Gen Z, right?
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: In other words, like I, I don't want anybody to go into hiding.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: I, you know, I think often, like there are so many, there are so many preachers that get up and like blame Gen Z, complain about laziness, whatever it is that they say.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Here's the reality.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: If you're listening and you're a part of that generation, you were made for the day and the day was made for you.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: God made you for this day to be an instrument in his redeeming hand, and he means to use you.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: We talk often about how amazing the Puritans were or how awesome the reformers were, how amazing the, the uh, the prophets of the old Testament or the apostles were.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing If God wanted prophets from the old Testament, if you wanted apostles, if you wanted, if you wanted reformers and if you wanted Puritans in 2025, then that's who you would have here.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: But he doesn't.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: He has you.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: He has you here right now, in this day.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: You were made for the day and the day was made for you, and so, as we say in sports like next man up, let's move forward with the gospel.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: What do we need now?
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: We know what we need.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: We don't need political revolution.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: We don't need new policies.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: We don't need better politicians.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: What we need is the gospel.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Every single time a life is taken, it's one step closer to Jesus coming back.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: The seconds are ticking and, yeah, the response is to proclaim the gospel.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: You know, I was texting with my siblings just a few days ago and I sent them a video of Charlie Kirk.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: It was just so powerful because the guy was only 31 years old right, he's younger by a number of years, you know, from all of us here today, by a number of years, you know from all of us here today.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: But he just had such a wisdom and a presence and a boldness and a courage that was beyond his years and the Lord had given him favor and he gave him a platform, you know, and he was using it well and you can imagine, right, the price that his family was paying.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, they just paid the ultimate price today, but they were paying a lot through all of that.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: You can imagine the attacks and the threats and all of that.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: But I was just so moved by this video.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: It was so profound and insightful and winsome and wise, and so I sent it to my siblings.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I have four siblings.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I sent it to all of them on our group text thread and my sister, neda, said I follow him, he speaks my thoughts in a powerful way.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: And then she put in all caps my favorite guy in the whole wide world, he is brilliant.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: And I said yeah, he's great.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: She said a genius, I worry for his safety.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: People that speak truth are in danger.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: How long ago was that?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: This was just a few days ago.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: And uh, and you know, I my text back was yeah, he is a genius.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I said he's got a good security team.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: And you know again, lord, teach us to number our days.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, now, listen right, he does have a good security team.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: When I saw him, when I met him, he had like eight or nine security guards around him.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: But he does, he did.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: He had the best security team in the world, because the angel of the Lord encamps around those who fears him and sings songs of deliverance.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: That we are invincible.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Who said it?
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: We are invincible until our time is up.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's George Orwell who said the further a society drifts from the truth, the more I'll hate those who proclaim it.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: So there is a hatred towards Christianity.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: They hate us, of course.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Well, they hated Christ first, they hated him first.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Of course we're going to be hated, and this more than anything.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Listen, do your nine to five job, do it to the glory of God, but rise up with your voice like that of a trumpet and proclaim the mysteries of the gospel.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Do proclaim the mysteries of the gospel.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Do not be ashamed of the gospel.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: What are people doing?
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Here's the decision.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Your decision is you either go cower inside of a corner, you move to some state where you have no neighbors, or you go into the local square, or you go door to door, or you go to the university and you proclaim Jesus Christ and him crucified.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: That's what you do, that those are your marching orders.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: He came to seek and save that which is lost, and when the marching orders change, well then you change.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Somebody once said you know, listen, if God calls me to go, I'll go, but he's got to call me to go.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: In the meantime, I'm going to stay.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Well, wait a minute.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: God has called you to go, and what you need to say is I'm willing to stay.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Should God call me to stay In the meantime, I'm going to go, but how is he going to call you to stay when he's already told you to go?
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Or, as Jim Elliot said, why do you need a voice when you have a verse?
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: You have a verse to go.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: It's not to come back, right?
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Or, as Justin Peter said, if you want God to speak to you, read his word.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: If you want God to speak to you out loud, well then, read his word out loud.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: We're looking for this weird esoteric, maybe this Gnostic insight, information that something has changed with God's desire to seek the lost, and it hasn't.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: So this is what needs to happen, right, that the blood of Charlie Kirk, that it needs to be the seed of the church, and it needs to give us wind in our sails to go forward.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: That's what we need to do, yeah.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Tanny.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Tanny just sent me an image of I'm guessing a tweet or something by Charlie Kirk four days ago and it says Jesus defeated death so that you can live.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Wow, oh man, you know I was thinking about his security team and they were amazing.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Those guys were, they were huge, they were and they were on it.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I remember you know you'd see people that try to get riled up and stuff and they're like right there, you know, think of trump, right he had.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I mean secret service who would be more protected than a, at that time, a former president, who was like the top presidential candidate and who then became president again, but he was shot right.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: It was just that split second of divine intervention.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: And again we wrestle with it.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Well, why not with Charlie Lord?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: We don't know.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: But I think what we need to recognize is we need to number our days so that we can have a heart of wisdom, not so that we can just say our I love you's.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Not just so that we can live in an upstanding way, without regrets, so to speak, in the way we arrange the affairs of our lives, but so that our lives would count for eternity, so that we would be like Paul and, as he exhorted in Colossians, set our mind on the things above, where Christ is, on the things above, not on the things of the earth.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: This life is a breath, it's a vapor, right?
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: We've all heard the whole saying like who wakes up in the morning and puts it on their calendar, I'm gonna die today.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Or who plans their death date?
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Right, that puts it on their calendar I'm going to die today.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Or who plans their death date, right?
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: That's not how people live, and so we have to make our lives count and ask ourselves what are we doing for eternity?
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Tis, but one life will soon be passed.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Only what's done for Christ will last, and we have to remember that.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: And on that note, ray, I know we have and this is like stirring us all up more than ever.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Right now.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: We have a massive campaign that we're working on, and I just want to say, friends, at the outset, that this is not some sort of plug for any financial gain for our ministry.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: This is something we're doing 100% for free and it ties in exactly with what we're talking about today the gospel and souls.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: So, ray, why don't you share what we're planning?
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: I'd like to share, but I've got something else in my heart just before I do and it's rather strange and I hope it doesn't ruin this thing.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: But I don't like to talk about dreams that I had, because the Bible says old men dream dreams.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Number one, number two weirdos talk about their dreams, but I had a dream that was two seconds long and it horrified me beyond words, woke me up in an instant.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: Let me tell you what it was.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: I don't like spiders.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: I actually hate spiders.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: I don't have a phobia, but I spit.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Whenever I see a spider, I just want to spit.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: And one of your children confided to a mom that she's exactly the same and I thought that's genetic.
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: This dream that was two seconds long that woke me up was I saw this incredibly big spider, the size of a small dog, and it ran after me this is all in two seconds Reached out one of its legs and touched my flesh to a point where, in that two-second dream, I yelled out and that woke me.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: Like that and some dreams you forget immediately.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: But I haven't forgot this one Because, as Christians, if we want the power in the church, we need to sanctify ourselves and there is a beast that wants to reach out and touch our flesh because that's what the spider did.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: It touched my flesh.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: That's what the spider did.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: It touched my flesh.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: That's what made me yell.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: It touched my right leg All in two seconds.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: And every time I go to the local college, twice a day I feel that beast rise up and want to touch my flesh because there's so many girls dressed inappropriately, got out hunting the beach.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: Every time I'm driving, just as there's the pier I'm driving up there, it is again that beast.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: And what I've got to say to myself is that beast promises pleasure, but it has a sting it's death.
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: Every man is drawn away by his own lusts, and then lust, when it's conceived, brings forth sin.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: Sin, when it's finished, brings forth death.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: And so it really helped me.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: This morning I was going to a local college.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: As I go in there, they are again girls inappropriately dressed and I just said to myself spider.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: And immediately it brought a sobriety to mind.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: So I hope that what's happened to Charlie Kirk causes each of us to put the fear of God in our hearts.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: Let it in and sanctify ourselves and guard our eyes and guard our hearts, because that's where the power comes from.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: God wants a strong church.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: So, like I love what you said, Izzy, we're giving away two million of these tracts.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: Paul McCartney is coming to the US in the next six weeks.
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: For six weeks, end of this month, through the whole month he's going to 15 cities in the US, so there are literally hundreds of thousands of Beatles fans, not just older people but young people.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: One of the Beatles videos on YouTube has had over 500 million views, so it's got it right across the culture.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: So this is a little blow-up so we can see what's going on.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: Brad Snow did a wonderful job and it's got these little what do you call them?
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: Easter eggs, easter eggs hidden in them.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: So Beatles fans are going to absolutely love this.
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: It's going to be seen as a memorabilia.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: They're going to snap them up quicker than grabbing hotcakes on a cold day in Alaska.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: So these are completely free.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: Just go to livingwaterscom forward slash fab4.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: Got it right.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: I believe so, and they're completely free, and 2 million of them, and we would love it if we got so bombarded that we have to get another 2 million printed, because this is one thing we can practically do, because we can say to you share the gospel, knock on your neighbor's door.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: That's great, but here, literally, probably millions of people could be reached with a gospel message that's going to resonate within their hearts so take advantage of that.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let me just say, friends, that this is not an endorsement of the beat.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: This is us taking an opportunity that we see in front of us, of all these people gathered and just saying, look, is there a way we can reach them with the gospel?
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: And so on the back of that bill is the gospel, and so people are going to take it as memorabilia.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: So please understand that this isn't us saying the Beatles are great and they were wonderful and we endorse what they did and stood for.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: We understand their paganism and the history of all that.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: This is to reach souls.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: We do this on a lot of occasions when we don't agree with the people that may be tied to a track that we've produced.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: We've had Obama a million.
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: We've had Trump a million People we don't totally agree with.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: But let me just say Paul in the book of Acts, chapter 17, stood up and quoted godless idolatrous, perhaps adulterous, fornicating greek poets.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: Why did he do that?
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: Because it was a springboard to his hero, something they related to, and so that's our precedent.
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: In scripture he said by all means, reach some.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: So this is a wonderful way to reach people with a message of everlasting life yeah, you know, just this morning actually, I was telling tanny about this earlier today.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: Uh, I was reading from my morning devotional.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: I've been reading through Revelation.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: I was reading Revelation 4 and it prompted a question during my workout afterwards which is are you willing to suffer for Christ?
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: So, revelation 4, the backdrop is you get this vision of the cherubs and the angels surrounding God and they're crying out to the Lord, they're singing holy, holy, holy is the Lord, god Almighty, who was and is and is to come.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: And the commentary that I was reading through it helped me remember that this isn't just a moment.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: This is actually ultimate reality.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: What we see and experience right now is a shadow of what's really going on.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: In many ways, the eternal story that's happening, that's actually happening for all of eternity, is exactly that that these angels, these cherubs, they would spend eternity singing a song to God Holy, holy, holy is the Lord, god Almighty, who was and is and is to come.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: And as we talk about heaven here on earth, we often talk about I can't wait.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: You know, confessionally, I'll always like I can't wait to eat as many breakfast burritos as I want and never get fat.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: And we think like that's how great heaven's gonna be, and maybe there's elements of truth to that.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: But what Revelation 4 reminded of is that ultimately, that, ultimately, heaven is about that an eternal moment of glorifying God in ultimate joy for all of eternity, with all of creation, all of saved creation.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: And so I took that and I was in the middle of my workout and I asked myself that question am I willing to suffer?
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: And so I took that and I was in the middle of my workout and I asked myself that question am I willing to suffer?
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: And so the prompt in my mind came to this is and imagine this.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Imagine you're not a believer and one day you witness your neighbor, the spouse, goes to jail for their faith, their kids are murdered, and not only that, but like your entire city, the neighborhood, the news, everybody is celebrating like good riddance, get rid of these vermin, like let's, let's get rid of them.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: You know that's a celebration, nobody's lamenting.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: And you wake up the next morning and you're comfortable, middle-class home and you're in your comfortable, middle-class pajamas and you walk outside and pass your comfortable, middle-class car to get the you know, to get your, your mail, and a puffy eyed neighbor, the spouse leftover walks up to you and says can I tell you about Jesus?
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Would you listen?
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Would you listen?
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: Because I think in America, like, we're so used to Christianity being comfortable and safe and acceptable, and for most of human history, for most of Christian history, it wasn't.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: But especially in those first 300 years, when it was definitely not safe the birth of the early church it was not safe to be a Christian, and yet the church grew radically, went from 500 to countless, and we're the recipients of that same faith.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: And so, in my mind, I think it's time to stop being American Christians.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: And so, in my mind, I think it's time to stop being American Christians.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: It's time to be Christians.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: You know biblical, historical Christians.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Like we need to be honest.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: It's not safe to be a Christian, it's not.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: But are you still willing to follow Christ?
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: And you might think like, why?
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Why would you do that?
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: The answer for me, I believe, is yes.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, I would listen.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: And the reason why I would listen even if everything, if my family was at stake, if I knew it would mean the end of my children's life, if be separated from my spouse, why would I still listen?
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Why would I say yes to being a Christian?
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: It's because ultimate reality is all of creation, is singing to God holy, holy, holy is the Lord, god Almighty, who was and is and is to come.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: What else is there to live for?
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Amen, oscar.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: You know we're talking about our brother Charlie, and how his death was instant For some of us right now, I believe, who are alive.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: In light of what may happen regarding our faith, we may be put in a different predicament, where we're given an option to deny Christ and to blaspheme his name, or to stay true to him unto death.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: And I just have a challenge, you know, for all of us, because you would be hard-pressed to find someone who professes to be a Christian, who would not say, if you ask them, would you die for the name of Christ?
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Who would say no, I mean that's the expected answer.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Of course I would die for my faith.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I remember as a pagan kid I would talk about I would die for my Catholicism.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: That's how I felt.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: We often say we would die for my Catholicism.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: That's how I felt.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: We often say we would die for the Lord.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I remember when my daughter Julia was seven years old.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: I was in bed sleep in the middle of the night and all of a sudden I was awakened by just a loud yell and I jump out of bed.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: I run down the hallway, run into her room and I see Rachel there in a panic.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I look on the bed.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Julia's lying there, her eyes rolled back in her head.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: She's writhing on the bed, foam coming out of her mouth.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like what in the world?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: She's seven years old and our world just turned upside down in one moment.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: So we called 911.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: We're waiting, we're trying to help her.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: They got there, thank God, quickly, and they come in and we find out she was having a seizure.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: They take her to the hospital and they're running a battery of tests.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: She was unconscious.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I remember they had tubes connected all over and I remember sitting there just in tears, looking at her through blurred vision, and I remember saying Lord, if she needed my heart right now, I would dig my hand into my chest and rip it out and give it to her.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: If she needed my eyes, I'd rip them out of their sockets and give it to her.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: If she needed every drop of blood in my entire body, I would drain my body dry to make sure that my daughter stays alive.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: And as I was thinking that, another thought came into my mind, and it was this easy you're willing to die for the sake of your daughter.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Are you willing to live in such a way so as to further life in her and friends?
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: That's the question before us.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Are we willing to live in such a way that we want to further life in others Before we say we'll die for Christ?
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: How are we living for Christ, and especially as it relates to the gospel?
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: This isn't about condemnation.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: This is about encouragement to say even if you struggle in sharing the gospel, christ sympathizes with your weaknesses and he calls you to come boldly to his throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: So let's wake up.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Let's let this be used for the good.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: What happened to our dear brother Charlie?
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: And to say we're going to pick up that banner, we're going to keep running.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, you heard Ray say he's ready to go to campuses.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: This is what we need.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: We need to rise up and say we're not afraid of death, because we know the prince of life and we understand that to live is Christ and to die is gain.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: But are we living for Christ or are we just trifling with the trinkets of this world that mean nothing?
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Where's our devotional life?
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Where's our prayer life?
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Where's our commitment to the word?
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Where's our love for our family?
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Where's our desire to die to ourself?
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: We need to wake up.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: We can't just keep cruising.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: We can't keep saying tomorrow we might not have it.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: And even if you haven't been living fully for the Lord and you say now I will, and you die tomorrow, at least you died, committed to live fully for Christ.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: So, friends, it's time to wake up and it's time to say no, we're going to make this count for the glory of God.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: He's there to help.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Emotions will fade, we'll wake up tomorrow.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Other things will distract us, but we have to commit now and we have to recommit every single day, because we are prone to wander, we are prone to leave the God we love.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: But if we just come and say, lord, here I am, help me, without you I can do nothing, he will.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Let me just get that.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: This is from Turning Point, usa.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: It says it is with a heavy heart that we confirm that Charles James Kirk has been murdered by a gunshot that took place during Turning Point, usa's the American Comeback Tour campus event at Utah Valley University on September 10th 2025.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: May he be received into the merciful arms of our loving savior, who suffered and died for Charlie.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: We ask that everyone keep his family and loved ones in your prayers.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: We ask that you please respect their privacy and dignity at this time, and so we ask all of you to do that, to pray for Charlie's family and to respect their privacy, but, beyond all of that, to live in a way that says Charlie's savior was worth dying for.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: So, guys, you have anything else to add?
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll wrap it up there.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: God bless you, guys, and let's continue to hold our loved ones close, hold the Lord closer and hold our lives looser for God's glory.