Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 2 - Was Enoch Written by Demons?

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Ep. 2 - Was Enoch Written by Demons? · Martyr's Row

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  Saint Stephen. Stephen suffered the next in order.
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  His death was occasioned by the faithful manner
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  in which he preached the gospel to the betrayers
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  and murderers of Christ. To such a degree of
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  madness were they excited, that they cast him
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  out of the city and stoned him to death. The
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  time when he suffered is generally supposed to
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  have been at the Passover which succeeded to
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  that of our Lord's crucifixion. and to the era
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  of His ascension in the following spring. Upon
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  this, a great persecution was raised against
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  all who professed their belief in Christ as the
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  Messiah or as a prophet. We are immediately told
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  by St. Luke that there was a great persecution
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  against the Church which was at Jerusalem and
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  that they were all scattered abroad throughout
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  the regions of Judea and Samaria except the Apostles.
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  About 2 ,000 Christians with Nicanor, one of
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  the seven deacons, suffered martyrdom during
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  the persecution that arose about Stephen. Paul,
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  what are you looking at? Is the lighting weird?
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  What? Huh? What just happened? What are you looking
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  at? What are we doing? I don't know. Let's just
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  keep going. All right, episode two. So this week,
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  I'm the martyr. Yeah. Right, so I read St. Stephen.
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  It's kind of a big day for you. I know it is
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  it is Yeah, I mean I guess in some ways we honor
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  st. Stephen the first martyr after Christ and
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  Yeah, so that was fitting and we talked about
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  a little bit on the last episode which was Kind
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  of where this came from you made a joke initially.
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  Yeah, I'll just say it again And if you haven't
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  watched the first podcast or listen go back and
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  listen to that one kind of helps set up I think
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  I think this podcast is To use a phrase of another
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  podcast. I love Journey podcast. Yeah, it's just
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  it's gonna be one of those podcasts that kind
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  of unfolds as we go So yeah, I think it's important
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  that you go back and watch the first episode
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  that being said You initially in a conversation
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  said? Is it weird as a Steven to be talking to
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  a Paul? And it was the most subtle, theological,
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  had to know the Bible joke that you could have
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  possibly made. It's probably one of the nerdiest
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  jokes I've ever said. It had so many layers to
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  it that it took me a minute and I was like, oh
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  yeah. So if you don't know, Steven gets... stoned
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  as we read before he gets stoned in and he's
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  the first martyr after Christ for his faith and
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  he gets stoned actually by a mob of Jewish zealots
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  and the that group was headed up by Saul and
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  Saul eventually He becomes Paul and in his conversion
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  process process conversion moment. Yeah, yeah,
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  yeah. It's a process. Or vision. It took him
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  a week, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And yeah,
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  so in that process, essentially, Paul martyrs
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  or orders Stephen to be martyred. So it also
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  felt like a flex a little bit. A little bit,
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  yeah. Or like you were kind of muscling up some.
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  Big square out. Yeah, like I'm gonna at any point
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  I could call a mob of people to stone you It's
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  been done before It literally has so on that
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  note this week we honor Stephen we honor Stephen
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  and Speaking on behalf of all the Paul's and
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  especially one that is You know a little more
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  guilty than the rest of us. Okay You know, we
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  were on this journey to to find our music. Oh,
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  yes And I figured, you know, as a way to pay
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  reparations, as I should to the Stephens, this
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  song. Are you going to be the minstrel? I'm going
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  to be the minstrel today and I'm going to serenade
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  you. Like, like David. Yes. To Saul. Oh, actually
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  not bad. Not bad at all. That's another subtle
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  one that like, if you're not quite there with
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  us. That's good. And David was probably a redhead
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  too. And there's not much left. Saul was a redhead.
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  David was too, I'm pretty sure. That brings up
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  some weird implications. It does. Well, it does.
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  I'm pretty sure Solomon, they were like, he's
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  a redhead. Why do I picture Solomon as blonde?
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  I don't know. I think I knew a Solomon who was
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  blonde. And they were blonde. Yeah. He was also
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  maybe Mormon? Which, yeah. Kind of fits a stereotype.
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  But that brings up an interesting topic for a
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  later discussion. Which one? Redhead or Mormons?
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  Both, honestly. Both of them. Yeah, good point.
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  So you're going to ease the tormenting spirit
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  that has come upon me because I'm sitting in
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  the presence of a Paul as a student. Yeah, some
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  PTSD. We're getting really layered So, how about
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  we just go ahead and attempt a song you ready
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  I'm ready three two one And we're back. Welcome
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  back. Here we are so if you saw episode one the
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  idea is Paul and I are both musicians and a pot
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  a podcast should have a song a theme song Something
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  recognizable. You guys are like, oh yeah, this.
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  Yeah. It gets you the feel of the moment and
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  gets you all ready to hear what we're going to
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  talk about. Yeah. But at the same time, we were
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  like, well, we don't exactly have. Maybe it's
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  more fun if we just do it in real time. Yeah.
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  Make you guys part of the journey with us. Yeah.
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  Journey podcast. That's right in all aspects.
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  Yeah So either we do a completely different song
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  every week because we never actually write anything
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  good Or we build it From week to week and it
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  becomes this long saga of a song that we have
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  to try and remember Yeah, that's because it's
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  like a 20 minute inch like every every Yeah,
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  every episode we have to write a new verse That's
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  a whole different challenge. We'll see Yeah,
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  how about you guys comment and let us know? Yeah,
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  let us know what you think. Which one's your
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  favorite one so far? Yeah, it might also be a
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  good... Out of the one. Yeah, do you like the
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  last one or the one we haven't done yet? Because
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  there's only two options. If they say the one
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  we haven't done yet, then we're like, oh, so
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  you didn't like that? Yeah, it's a little bit
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  like what's behind door one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  It's like, well, door one's open. Door two, do
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  you want this one? You don't have a choice. You
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  have to. Here we go. All right, so Paul? We didn't
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  practice anything, so. No, this is all stream
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  of consciousness. Yeah, and it's not, it might
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  feel like a bit because we're literally in a
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  studio. And we did a bit to get into this. And
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  we're fully miked up. Like we meant to do this.
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  And we did mean to do it, but. We meant to record
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  this. Yeah, but I don't like, I think Paul might
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  have something in his head, but I have no idea
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  what he has in his head. Yeah. So let's see what
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  happens. And I'll say it's one of those where
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  it's like. Again, it's like you pick up the guitar.
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  It's like, what does it tell me? Yeah. And I
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  don't for me, I've been in my you can't tell
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  by my those watching by my sweater. I'm in like
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  full fall mode. OK, I feel that. So I'm like
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  I'm thinking like fall direction. But then I
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  I pick this guitar up and it's like it's like
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  I think it's like the nylon part on that. It's
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  not nylon, but it's a rubber bridge. Oh, that's
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  what it is. Yeah. It's all muted. It makes it
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  sound like a medieval instrument. Yeah. It's
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  just kind of fun. And also what you decided to
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  play first. Yeah. Made it feel that way. You're
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  also a little Irish. That's fair. Just a little
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  bit. Just got nicked with it. We did like the
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  space that we're in kind of feels like a tavern.
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  It does. And we want this podcast to feel like
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  a tavern. Are you allowed to say that? I think
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  I can say words, I guess. But yeah, so I'm in
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  that fall mode. And when I picked this up, this
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  was kind of where my mind went to these chords.
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  So you just go, and then if there's anything
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  to add, I'll add. Now this is probably like,
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  you just got to think about like, where is the
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  melody at? Yeah, it can be anywhere. I like that.
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  That's storytelling. That's storytelling. Yeah.
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  I want a face that shines like Steven. And a
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  faith that's born like Paul. Oh, I like this.
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  It's our little turnaround. Yeah, I'm trying
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  not to go dark with the lyrics Which is easy
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  because I know I was about to go like down the
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  the rabbit trail of like Get stoned and then
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  but in a biblical way Wait play it again. I just
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  follow the dark rabbit trail It might bring us
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  somewhere this is part of the things for those
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  that aren't they don't write Like this is one
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  of the fun parts about writing with another person.
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  Yeah. Is like just what are the random ideas
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  that you get? Yeah. Like you might say something,
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  I might say something that sparks something.
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  And you've said this before and it's like it
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  goes down a path that you never imagined. Yeah.
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  But it's exactly what it needed. Yeah. And in
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  this instance, it doesn't have to be anything.
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  Yeah, because we probably never use this again.
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  Yeah. But this is not a songwriting podcast.
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  No, it's not. But this is a songwriting segment
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  in our podcast. So what was the first part you
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  sang? There you go, yeah. I wanna sleep real
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  nice in a lion's den like Daniel after all Hey,
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  I like that But that's not the dark you had Old
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  Testament with it. I know why you have to it's
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  true It all ties back in because I was thinking
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  like maybe a chorus hook is like this is where
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  it goes like Are we all just martyrs? waiting
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  to At the pearly gates with Peter by our side.
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  Do you know Phil Keagy? Are you familiar with
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  him? Yeah, of course. It kind of reminds me of
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  something that he would probably do. Lyrically
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  at least. I was like, that's great. Now we're
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  entering the part where we forget we're doing
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  a podcast. Now we're just writing. Alright, so
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  let's go with what we have. Okay. And then see
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  what happens. I like it. I don't know if I can
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  remember it. You start it. I don't remember all
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  the Daniel stuff, but I'll just make something
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  new up. Something about a lion's den. We'll need
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  to write all this down. We haven't recorded.
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  I actually like this one though. This is fun.
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  Yeah. I wanna rest like Daniel in the lion's
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  den. No, that was not good. That wasn't what
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  you did the first time. What did I say? Rest
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  like? I wanna rest like. I wanna rest in the
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  lion's den. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Daniel did
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  after all. Something like that. I think that's
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  right. You wanna take me to the top? Yeah, yeah,
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  yeah. Okay. This might be one worth doing something
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  with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want a faith that's
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  bold Oh no, that's right No, it's a faith that
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  shines I want a faith that shines like Stephen
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  I want a faith that's bold like Paul I want to
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  rest down in a lion's den like Daniel after all
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  Are we all just martyrs waiting to St. Peter
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  at the pearly gates standing by our side Are
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  we all just martyrs? Are we all just martyrs?
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  Are we all just martyrs after all? Are we all
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  just martyrs? Are we all just martyrs? Are we
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  all just martyrs after all? Oh. It's going wildly
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  out of tune. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, it's weird
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  to, like, kind of happy, dark. Yeah, that's true.
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  Sing, are we all just martyrs? I think that's
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  kind of the irony of it, though. Yeah, yeah,
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  yeah. I think there's something there, though.
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  Because there is joy in being a martyr. That's
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  true. Yeah. Oh. Find joy in our suffering. Alright,
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  now we're just like, we're like reveling in the
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  - Did we actually just write our theme in the
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  second shot? We might have, we might have. Now
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  you guys have to let us know what you think.
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  Alright, I think there's a full something there.
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  Alright, so then we'll see if this one continues.
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  You know what I want to see as well is, if you
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  guys have any lyric ideas, comment those down.
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  And then we'll see if we can make them work.
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  Yeah. We'll start putting it together. Yeah,
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  piecing it together. Piecing it together. But
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  I think that type of thing, like, martyrs row,
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  are we all just martyrs? I like that hook. I
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  like that hook. We need something like that.
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  Yeah. Yeah, because you can't just see the graphic
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  and it's like, no. Are we all just martyrs? People,
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  you're going to be like at work. Work on something
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  like, oh you're just my person's gonna look over.
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  What are you saying? All right, well tempting
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  spirit lifted there we go. I feel good. I feel
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  lifted. I do too. Now let's talk about death
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  You ready three two one All right, we're back.
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  We're back. I love I keep saying that every time
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  I know we're always back. We're here. We're like
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  the second coming We're always here I Mean not
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  not true. Yeah, that's true. He is here, but
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  he is coming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's a
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  different topic. That's Gotta research that one
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  a little bit No, but actually that kind of hits
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  at what we talked about last week being or last
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  episode, which is yeah, the the question you
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  posed which was He asked me like I'm supposed
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  to remember Yeah, why why are we not excited
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  or why do we fear the return of the Lord? Yeah
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  Yeah, so if you haven't watched that one go back
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  and watch episode one And today Paul, I have
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  a question for you. I'm so excited Um, so this
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  question, how about I just ask the question?
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  Okay. Because I'm intentionally asking it in
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  this specific way. And I hope that, and potentially
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  it's, maybe I shouldn't bookmark it, but maybe
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  it's the episode title is the question. Okay,
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  I don't even, I haven't heard it so I'm down.
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  Okay, this is episode two so we're figuring it
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  out. That's true. That's the name of the episode.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're figuring it out. It's
• 17:39
  not a bad episode title. There's got to be another
• 17:41
  podcast that has that. Probably. Alright, episode
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  two. Okay. The question I have for you. Man,
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  this is so loaded. I love it. Like every piece
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  of it's so loaded. Alright, here's the question.
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  Episode number two. Question for you, Paul, is
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  was the book of Enoch written by demons? That
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  is the episode title. Okay, let me say it one
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  more time. Yeah, please. For those of you in
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  the back. Was the book of Enoch written by demons?
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  Mamma mia. This is not a multiple choice question.
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  Can you give me a couple hints? No, I think what's
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  tough, and I know you know this already, just
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  because of how you set it up, is there are so
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  many levels inside there that I feel like we
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  need to ask first. You know what I mean? So the
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  first question is, you said, what's the Book
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  of Enoch? First, some people are like, what is
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  the Book of Enoch? And other people are like,
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  what? Just in general. Yes. So it's like, OK,
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  let's answer those questions first before we
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  can, as best as we can, before we get into the
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  meat of it. And then what else was wrong with
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  the question well Also, I love because of what
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  we're about to say What the book of Enoch is
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  and what it talks about? Yeah, it's like so what
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  it talks about you're asking those characters
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  also Which I feel like is a reasonable question
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  it is and actually it's more reasonable than
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  You then some people might think on the forefront.
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  Yes Yeah, which just to add that little That
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  little, like, marker for myself so I don't forget.
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  Yeah. Is, like, the beautiful side of evil. Okay.
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  You should ask that on the next episode. Is there
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  a beautiful side of evil? Yeah, and it's kind
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  of a weird conundrum. Yeah, because of the dualistic
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  but non -dualistic nature of creation. Yeah.
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  Yeah. But even outside of that, even... I think
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  that's one part of it, but then we look at is
• 19:54
  something that appears good, but is evil Right
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  or something that appears good, but leads to
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  harm or it might be its intent is good, but it
• 20:03
  leads to harm Yeah, so I mean even with that
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  as a I'm just throwing out examples up at the
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  top but even we look at like Milton's Paradise
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  Lost okay, or Dante's Inferno is that Yeah, Dante.
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  Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's in there. I don't think
• 20:21
  there's three parts to that one there are so
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  the inferno I think is the this part one. Yeah.
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  Yeah And then there's a little thing with Paradise
• 20:29
  Lost. He has a trilogy. Yes, he's trying to copy
• 20:32
  Dante Yeah, but even with that it's like I mean,
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  aren't we all trying to copy Dante? Come on.
• 20:40
  Come on. He walked all the way through. This
• 20:45
  particular episode is full of like theology student
• 20:48
  jokes. It really is. Already. Like, I don't know
• 20:52
  what the timestamp is. We've lost everybody already.
• 20:56
  Well, so what's interesting about this, for those
• 20:59
  that don't, I'll just stick with Paradise Lost
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  for right now. Okay. Okay, you're already into
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  it? Yeah, I just want to briefly say oh, yeah
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  the question itself is so nuanced and intentionally
• 21:12
  nuanced Because I was trying to think of a way
• 21:15
  to ask this particular question to get us into
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  an introductory conversation on the topic of
• 21:21
  the book of Enoch but and also like the broader
• 21:26
  topic of heavenly hosts spiritual beings the
• 21:32
  supernatural or however we want to talk about
• 21:35
  that the realms and all of those things it's
• 21:38
  all in that question it is and technically my
• 21:41
  question is somewhat um like has subject error
• 21:48
  in it in really unique ways that hopefully like
• 21:53
  we'll be able to unravel the question a little
• 21:55
  bit yeah throughout the course of this episode
• 21:58
  Yeah, so I think what you were trying to jump
• 22:01
  into, which I think is important, and I'll just
• 22:04
  say as what you're trying to get into, which
• 22:08
  is documents, historical documents, and the validity
• 22:13
  of those historical documents. Yeah, yeah. And
• 22:16
  I think we'll probably end up saying this again.
• 22:19
  I am saying it again in some way, but I guess
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  to put a pin into that one, to close that...
• 22:26
  that little corner up and then jump to the first
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  half again is like so here's a book that was
• 22:32
  written with a lot of creative liberty paradise
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  lost paradise lost dante's inferno it's like
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  yes yes there is truth inside of it is based
• 22:40
  inside of paradise lost for those who don't know
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  is uh like a poetic telling of the creation account
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  the fall of man this epic tale about that. So
• 22:52
  there's a lot of liberty done, but what's interesting,
• 22:55
  because a lot of people haven't read Paradise
• 22:56
  Lost. But categorically it would be similar to
• 22:59
  a... Like a fanfic. Yeah, I was thinking like
• 23:05
  to put not... Oh, what is it? Chronicles of Narnia.
• 23:10
  Oh yeah, it's not to that level. Right, but it
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  would be in the same like literary category.
• 23:15
  Yeah. Except it's poetry. It is, yeah. So that
• 23:18
  would be more fiction specific in the literary
• 23:22
  chronicles of Narnia. Yeah. This would be a similar
• 23:27
  feel, meaning that he's expounding on it. Yeah.
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  And making his own kind of writing a song about
• 23:34
  it. Right. In some ways. Yeah. But through poetry.
• 23:38
  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the thing
• 23:41
  that's interesting about it is a lot of people
• 23:43
  get their theology from Paradise Lost. That's
• 23:47
  not in the Bible anywhere But we hold to it like
• 23:51
  it is Bible, but it's like that's actually not
• 23:54
  the Bible or a lot of a lot of theology that
• 23:57
  we all just Assume right is Influenced by it.
• 24:03
  Absolutely. Yeah in the same with our view of
• 24:05
  hell from Dante's Inferno, right? It's like the
• 24:07
  idea of it being these rings in these circles.
• 24:09
  That's Dante that is nowhere in the Bible It's
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  not so why do I say that? And that's kind of
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  goes to the demon part of it. It's like. Because
• 24:19
  we're going to we're going to talk about like
• 24:21
  we probably won't get into the content of it,
• 24:23
  but it's funny because it talks very we can unfold
• 24:25
  that later. That's fair. But it talks very negatively
• 24:27
  about demons and these evil fallen beings. And
• 24:34
  so it'd be funny if they were the ones who wrote
• 24:35
  it. Right. But it could be and they're just misleading.
• 24:38
  But we'll jump into that. Yeah. I just wanted
• 24:40
  to try to like I open that up like I should.
• 24:43
  Try to lock that up a little bit and then jump
• 24:45
  back to the front So here's what I want to start
• 24:49
  with okay, because you you brought up an interesting
• 24:51
  word, which is the host of heaven Okay, yes,
• 24:55
  and so I'm actually I'm gonna pull my phone up
• 24:57
  here Okay, and one of the things that I didn't
• 24:59
  think about until I posed the question just now
• 25:01
  Yeah, because I've been thinking about this question
• 25:03
  today is I didn't think about the fact that and
• 25:06
  this Maybe this is a later thing, but I'll go
• 25:09
  ahead and bring it into the foreshadowing of
• 25:10
  the conversation Who writes the first five books
• 25:16
  of the Old Testament? It's believed to be Moses,
• 25:20
  right? Yeah, so it's just kind of interesting
• 25:23
  that like Moses who essentially Leads God's people
• 25:32
  into the promised land. Yeah is the one writing
• 25:35
  the text down Yeah, and all these the origins
• 25:39
  about his people hmm, and so The demons riding
• 25:45
  Enoch. It would be a weird parallel. Or I guess
• 25:51
  not a parallel. It would be a weird... Deception?
• 25:55
  Yeah. Which is perfectly... Deception is like...
• 26:01
  That's the word. Yeah. That's true. That is the
• 26:05
  word. Bird was the word. But yeah, so Steve's
• 26:11
  in. You almost made me rabbit show in a really
• 26:13
  weird direction. And I think you know what direction.
• 26:19
  Anyway. They're like, can you please get on with
• 26:23
  it? Loose flyers. We're trying. We're too good
• 26:26
  of a mood. Someone let us have fun. I don't know
• 26:28
  who it was. They gave us the keys to the studio,
• 26:30
  and here we are. That's on them. All right, so
• 26:36
  you want to take it back to Book of Enoch? I'm
• 26:39
  actually going to take it as my intro to the
• 26:41
  book of Enoch. Perfect. I'm gonna start with
• 26:42
  the Bible. Let's do it. Okay. A lot of people
• 26:45
  are like, how? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe. Yeah.
• 26:47
  But I'm gonna start in a place that people that
• 26:50
  might see where I'm going aren't expecting. I
• 26:53
  like that. You expect me to jump into Genesis
• 26:55
  6. You do that to me a lot. Oh, really? Yeah.
• 26:58
  I also just cut you off right in the middle of
• 27:00
  saying Genesis 6. That's great. That's probably
• 27:03
  good. But it's like that's probably where you
• 27:05
  think I'd start. I'm actually gonna start Axe
• 27:08
  chapter 6 verse 10. I like this and we're gonna
• 27:11
  start with the stoning of Stephen. Okay Isn't
• 27:14
  that great? Yeah, it's perfect dude. I was working
• 27:16
  hard. I mean, I don't know how great it is, but
• 27:18
  No, I just mean like, you know, like what's happening
• 27:23
  it's like yeah, yeah, thank you So Genesis 6
• 27:31
  10 There you go. My goodness. A little Freudian
• 27:37
  slip there. You want to go to it so bad. I do.
• 27:42
  My body is fighting me. I think that will have
• 27:43
  to just be a whole other question. I think it
• 27:46
  will. But because I like what you're about to
• 27:49
  do, you're doing it from a more scholarly approach.
• 27:54
  Trying to. Versus just jumping in on a headline.
• 27:59
  Yeah, absolutely. Because Genesis 6 by itself
• 28:02
  is currently a headline, which I love. Absolutely.
• 28:05
  I love that. It's a great headline. It is a great
• 28:07
  headline. Yeah. Most people have no idea what
• 28:10
  we're talking about. The ones that do are like,
• 28:12
  yes. Say it. Say the thing. But also, I'm not
• 28:16
  sure how much people that are currently talking
• 28:19
  about the events that happen in Genesis 6 and
• 28:22
  how that unfolds are also looking at the holistic
• 28:27
  conversation throughout scripture. Yeah, throughout
• 28:29
  the Bible by itself because there's a lot littered
• 28:32
  throughout scripture. There's so much Yeah, like
• 28:36
  way Yeah, way more than I could imagine Same
• 28:40
  I keep discussing like this one is brand new
• 28:43
  to me. That's cool from today reading the account
• 28:46
  of Stephen. That's awesome So I was like, oh
• 28:48
  wow, it's right here. That's cool. So here here's
• 28:51
  so it starts. I'm gonna start with Stephen Axe.
• 28:55
  Six. First ten. Also interesting. It is interesting.
• 29:00
  Always a six. And it says, but they could not
• 29:04
  withstand the wisdom and the spirit with which
• 29:06
  he was speaking. So why did I say that first?
• 29:09
  Oh yeah. And what's interesting is because when
• 29:12
  we look at Stephen, what did he do? Well, he
• 29:15
  was filled with the Holy Spirit. Yes, and he
• 29:18
  was doing incredible signs and wonders and he
• 29:20
  was very from what we get from the text Stephen
• 29:23
  as a person was a Seemed to have been a more
• 29:27
  like gentle humble person But was very confident
• 29:30
  and strong in his faith in his preaching of the
• 29:33
  gospel. Yeah, and so what's happening was here
• 29:36
  he is doing these signs and wonders and speaking
• 29:39
  in this way very boldly about Christ and people
• 29:42
  are like we hate this yeah and so so he's there
• 29:47
  reasoning with them and they don't know how to
• 29:49
  argue him back yeah and read what you read first
• 29:51
  again yeah um but they could not withstand the
• 29:54
  wisdom and the spirit with which he was speaking
• 29:57
  so it was stirring up anger within them yeah
• 30:00
  yeah which is yeah there's a lot of levels to
• 30:03
  that even in itself yes um and so the truth they
• 30:08
  were speaking was stirring up an anger within
• 30:10
  them Yes, yes. And then so jumping ahead a little
• 30:14
  bit to Acts chapter 6 verse 15, all who sat in
• 30:18
  the council saw that his, Stephen's face, was
• 30:22
  like the face of an angel. And now this is an
• 30:25
  interesting connection to Ecclesiastes 8 .1 that
• 30:29
  says, a man's wisdom makes his face shine and
• 30:32
  the hardness of his face is changed. And so why
• 30:35
  am I starting with this? Because that's not even
• 30:36
  the main... hook that I really want to get into.
• 30:39
  Yeah. But I think it's interesting because like
• 30:41
  here's Stephen, a very strong man of God. Right.
• 30:46
  I mean, I think it's hard to deny that just based
• 30:49
  on him just being a martyr. It's like, yeah,
• 30:50
  of course. And the first one. Yeah. And a person
• 30:54
  that that would fall into the meek category.
• 30:57
  Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of there's
• 30:59
  a lot of layers to this person and he's not someone
• 31:03
  that we should easily disregard. Sure. So what
• 31:08
  happened, for those who don't know, is they really
• 31:12
  didn't like what was going on. They couldn't
• 31:13
  argue with him because he was a little too wise
• 31:16
  for them. And the spirit that was within Stephen
• 31:18
  was stirring up this anger within them because
• 31:22
  it's righteousness and unrighteousness. And they
• 31:26
  were like, we don't know what to do. So what
• 31:29
  they did was they went out and got a bunch of
• 31:30
  false witnesses, put them in front of a council,
• 31:32
  and accused him. of speaking blasphemy against
• 31:35
  God, against Moses, the law. And so these are
• 31:39
  these are the things that they're built upon.
• 31:41
  Right. The Jewish nation at that time. Yeah.
• 31:43
  And so that was a big thing with with Jesus.
• 31:45
  That's what he was. He was speaking out against
• 31:47
  how they were basically butchering what he had
• 31:50
  given them. Yes. And they're like, no, you're
• 31:52
  the one who's blasphemy. Right. Little finger
• 31:55
  pointing. Yeah. So then what does Stephen do?
• 31:58
  Because they're accusing of all this stuff and
• 32:00
  they say, OK, what do you say? And then so we
• 32:02
  have this long history lesson from Stephen. He
• 32:06
  doesn't go, I didn't say that. He goes, OK, let's
• 32:11
  go back to Abraham. Love this. And it's like,
• 32:15
  what? Yeah. And so what's interesting about this
• 32:18
  is the significance of why Stephen said what
• 32:22
  he said, because he basically gives a history
• 32:24
  lesson from Abraham to Moses. Yeah. They're accusing
• 32:27
  him of denying the law and throwing it out. And
• 32:31
  he's saying, Uh -uh. I know the history. I know
• 32:34
  who we are. Yeah, this is who we are and this
• 32:36
  is who we are now with Christ. Yes And one of
• 32:40
  things that he says in there, this is Acts 7
• 32:42
  verse 42 Stephen is preaching to the people during
• 32:46
  that He brings up the Israelites And that they
• 32:50
  made a golden calf to worship and he says but
• 32:53
  God turned away and gave them over to worship
• 32:55
  the host of heaven Yeah That's where I was bringing
• 33:00
  it to And so it's like you almost like bowed
• 33:04
  up when you said that I was so excited. I am
• 33:07
  So the host of heaven, yes, okay, so we see it
• 33:14
  pop up here you mentioned it earlier. Mm -hmm
• 33:17
  What is that? And so yeah As far as I think it's
• 33:22
  like the lexem Christian dictionary. Okay. I
• 33:25
  care the exact thing but it's it's a big dictionary
• 33:28
  um it's someone else's scholarly work yeah someone
• 33:33
  much smarter than me yeah um so the host of heaven
• 33:36
  as it's defined is something that we can see
• 33:39
  scattered throughout the old testament particularly
• 33:41
  in the book of second kings um that's what i'm
• 33:44
  trying to say but yeah we see it scattered throughout
• 33:46
  scripture here it is The host of heaven is an
• 33:49
  army of angelic beings or pantheon of demonic
• 33:52
  false gods, sometimes used to refer to the sun,
• 33:56
  moon, and stars. And so now what that did was
• 34:00
  just open up a whole new world for us. Whole
• 34:04
  new world. One of my favorite Disney movies.
• 34:07
  I know, I had to, yeah. Yeah, but the funny thing
• 34:11
  is like even what you just said to describe it
• 34:13
  is layered with inconsistent. Things so like
• 34:17
  a pantheon of false gods. Yeah, that's not That
• 34:22
  doesn't that's not no and it goes into like,
• 34:25
  you know, I've talked about this a lot But it's
• 34:28
  it's creating correct terminology. Yeah, so like
• 34:31
  through through the through translations not
• 34:34
  just through translations, but through actual
• 34:37
  evidence of This might be jumping too far But
• 34:43
  through actual evidence of the Jewish people
• 34:46
  who did not want things like the book of Enoch.
• 34:49
  Yeah to that Yeah, let me not go too far into
• 34:54
  that the we're headed there next though. Okay.
• 34:56
  Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so you're in the right spot.
• 34:58
  Okay but essentially taking words that we would
• 35:03
  normally use for To mean one thing They're they're
• 35:09
  used in a translation and they're actually being
• 35:12
  misused, even though they're technically correct.
• 35:14
  And what I mean by that is like, when you say
• 35:16
  a pantheon of false gods, it's not a pantheon
• 35:21
  of fake gods. Correct. It's a pantheon of false,
• 35:26
  meaning not the true one. Not correct, yeah.
• 35:29
  Yeah, the non -correct gods, not fake gods. Not
• 35:33
  gods that don't exist. Right. Gods that do exist,
• 35:37
  but are false. Yes, meaning they represent a
• 35:41
  deception. Yes of They are deceivers They represent
• 35:48
  the great deception. Yeah, and so therefore they
• 35:52
  are false not fake Yes, that's a big thing. I
• 35:56
  feel like for for me that's huge in a definition
• 35:59
  where we go Oh, yeah, they were just worshiping
• 36:01
  false idols False does not mean fake. Yeah in
• 36:06
  the translation. It does not mean fake False
• 36:10
  means not true and therefore a God that is real,
• 36:16
  acting in a mode of deception in order to bring
• 36:21
  on worship that's not theirs to receive, but
• 36:25
  they are actual beings. Yeah, it's not denied
• 36:29
  by the definition. And I think that's an important
• 36:33
  thing to say even where we're at in the conversation
• 36:35
  is Like we're not saying that this does exist.
• 36:39
  We're saying that this text doesn't say it doesn't
• 36:42
  exist Yes, and also bringing up the the simplicity
• 36:46
  of the English language and the translations
• 36:49
  Yeah, and how we just very quickly Allow something
• 36:53
  to mean something that it doesn't mean just because
• 36:56
  a word like that technically in context Could
• 37:01
  mean fake Correct. Yeah, but doesn't in that
• 37:05
  context. Not, yeah, not in that context. So then
• 37:07
  we just pretend like there aren't other gods.
• 37:10
  Yeah. And I think what's an interesting one,
• 37:13
  because some people, I've heard this as a rebuttal
• 37:16
  to this, and I'm going to have to quote Michael
• 37:19
  Heiser in this, because how do you not have this
• 37:21
  conversation and not quote him? Because he did
• 37:23
  such amazing work in this area. Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:26
  And so one of the things that a lot of people
• 37:28
  bring up is, well, there's a verse that says,
• 37:32
  you know, there are no other gods before Yahweh.
• 37:35
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm changing that verse
• 37:37
  a little bit to really emphasize the point of
• 37:39
  what people are saying. Sure. It says, there
• 37:42
  are no other gods before me. And it's like, okay,
• 37:45
  that's a big statement. Yeah. Obviously. But
• 37:49
  what does that mean? Does that mean that there
• 37:52
  are literally zero others? Well, it's like, well,
• 37:56
  let's let scripture interpret scripture. Yes.
• 37:59
  There's another verse, and I can't remember the...
• 38:01
  Reference off top my head. I didn't write this
• 38:03
  in my notes. This is just Yeah, go for it. Yeah,
• 38:06
  but there's a verse where Babylon is talking
• 38:08
  about them as a city And it says there are no
• 38:12
  other cities before us right and it's like well,
• 38:14
  hold on a second Yeah, we know for a fact that
• 38:17
  there were other cities, right? So if we're gonna
• 38:20
  let scripture interpret scripture print out language
• 38:23
  be language Yeah, and look at it correctly Babylon
• 38:28
  is saying that we are so great. No one compares
• 38:30
  to us. God is saying I am so great No one compares
• 38:34
  to me. Yes, and honestly, it would be kind of
• 38:37
  ridiculous if there were zero other The word
• 38:42
  God in this is translated as Elohim, right which
• 38:46
  even we can go into what even that word means
• 38:49
  But it's like for God to say I am The there's
• 38:54
  no others before me. I'm the only one it's like
• 38:56
  well, that's actually kind of weak if you're
• 38:57
  the only one Yeah, exactly, you know, it's like
• 38:59
  yeah, like I am I am the greatest leprechaun,
• 39:02
  right? Yeah, there aren't any so like yeah Yeah,
• 39:07
  and even as Christians, I think we're we're okay
• 39:09
  with saying like yeah, there is a God that's
• 39:12
  that is the creator god that's bigger than everything
• 39:14
  that we have to have faith to believe in we see
• 39:17
  the effects more so than we actually physically
• 39:20
  see him right um and we're okay with that but
• 39:25
  as soon as we go there are other spiritual entities
• 39:29
  that are actual elohim yeah or gods yeah lowercase
• 39:34
  g um we go like that can't be like they must
• 39:38
  just all be like underlings I mean, you're right.
• 39:44
  Yeah, and that's not true, but it's also a little
• 39:48
  bit... I feel like it's not a way for us to actually
• 39:51
  go, there are a bunch of underlings. We tend
• 39:55
  to go, they're probably just like no big deal,
• 39:58
  kick them under the rug, they don't exist. You
• 40:00
  know what I mean? It's like, I'm not afraid of
• 40:05
  spiders if I never see one in my house. That
• 40:07
  doesn't mean spiders don't exist. There's not
• 40:09
  a threat to you. Yeah, they're just not a threat
• 40:11
  to me. But the thing is is like the underlings
• 40:15
  of the spiritual Yeah world the spiritual realm
• 40:20
  they are a threat to me. Yeah, and a lot of times
• 40:24
  I'm calling them something else Also, we're pretty
• 40:28
  far down the road. We are we kind of kind of
• 40:31
  pull it back slightly Yeah, so yeah, so I think
• 40:34
  I think unpacking even what you brought up about
• 40:39
  the original Hebrew there, of the difference
• 40:42
  between there are no gods, there are no Elohim
• 40:47
  before Yahweh. That would be the translation
• 40:51
  of it. Other gods, there are no other Elohim
• 40:57
  before Yahweh. The differentiation of that, that
• 41:00
  there are gods, but Yahweh is Yahweh. Yeah, and
• 41:04
  I think that's a hard thing that we run into.
• 41:07
  because we have an idea of what the word God
• 41:09
  means. Right. And we apply, we do that with a
• 41:12
  lot of things. We apply our definition toward
• 41:15
  something. Sure. And we see that even if you
• 41:17
  take a word from 30 years ago and you watch a
• 41:20
  movie that's from the 1940s, you can laugh at
• 41:22
  them because it's like they're saying that word,
• 41:24
  but that word means something different to me
• 41:25
  now. Yeah, exactly. And so I laugh because that's
• 41:28
  my definition that I'm putting on you. Yeah.
• 41:30
  But you've got a whole different definition.
• 41:32
  So what we have to do is What's their definition?
• 41:36
  What are they doing? So it's like, how does the
• 41:37
  Bible describe this? Yes. And one of my quick
• 41:41
  and easy ways to do that. And by this. The word
• 41:43
  Elohim. OK. Yes. And one of I guess the quickest
• 41:47
  way that I look at it is, OK, well, how do we
• 41:50
  see it used throughout scripture? Yeah. And we
• 41:53
  I did a video. We did an episode on this on the
• 41:56
  Tipsy Theology podcast. Yeah. Which I can link
• 41:58
  that below for people that want to see us talk
• 42:01
  more about that specifically. Yeah. But for a
• 42:04
  quick summary for our use today So that it's
• 42:10
  used many times throughout scripture Oftentimes
• 42:12
  we see as a capital G God capital G other times
• 42:15
  we see it sometimes in the same sentence There's
• 42:17
  a lowercase G God to refer to other things Yeah,
• 42:20
  we see it refer to the word that gets translated
• 42:23
  as angel in our English text Which is Elohim
• 42:27
  in the original Hebrew and we even see it in
• 42:29
  specific and this is the like linchpin for me
• 42:33
  Is it's referred to Samuel when Saul? Goes to
• 42:38
  the witch in Endor and summons him back from
• 42:40
  the dead. She calls him an Elohim Samuel so what
• 42:45
  Paul just said it's a lot is in what is in the
• 42:48
  Bible Not in Lord of the Rings correct because
• 42:52
  that is the Lord of the Rings word Which in indoor
• 42:57
  yeah, I think indoor is in Lord of the Rings
• 43:00
  it might be I think it is But but yeah, all right.
• 43:03
  So yes, so there's I'm gonna end our rabbit trail.
• 43:06
  Yes, cuz that was a big rabbit trail It was a
• 43:09
  big rabbit trail that was that I feel like really
• 43:11
  I feel like that rabbit trail set up context
• 43:14
  because I think what we should do now is Let's
• 43:16
  come all the way back to the surface and go like
• 43:19
  all right. Take a breath. Here's yeah. Yeah,
• 43:21
  but also let's let's like Over future episodes
• 43:26
  we can get really deep into specific pieces of
• 43:29
  those yeah those things, but I think some of
• 43:32
  that is just context of Basically saying this
• 43:35
  there are things that we've allowed to mean the
• 43:39
  wrong thing and no one said anything wrong Yeah,
• 43:43
  technically, but we've allowed it to just be
• 43:47
  a wrong viewpoint perspective of things that
• 43:52
  really we need to bring back central and we need
• 43:56
  to go like, hey, false gods, not fake gods, just
• 44:01
  deceptive gods, but real gods, lowercase g, that
• 44:06
  are in existence. And so that all being said,
• 44:10
  and then letting scripture talk for itself. So
• 44:14
  I think let's go back to the... So that kind
• 44:17
  of hits a few things within the question I initially
• 44:20
  asked. It does, but I think that was important
• 44:22
  to set up the context of that. And kind of also
• 44:24
  just set up the context of understanding our
• 44:27
  language is actually really important. I mean,
• 44:30
  and let me just put it this way, like let's go
• 44:32
  outside of the world of philosophy and theology
• 44:36
  and let's just go to like what I feel like is
• 44:39
  always a hot button topic, which is like leadership.
• 44:42
  So like in in leadership like any leadership
• 44:45
  podcast you watch or or let's go to even like
• 44:48
  self -help stuff The most important thing in
• 44:52
  all of that is language. It's what you're saying
• 44:56
  Yeah, and and how critical it is to always be
• 44:59
  saying the same thing And the problem I feel
• 45:03
  like we've had in Christendom especially is that
• 45:06
  we've allowed a deception to creep in that's
• 45:10
  creating a wrong perspective of the spiritual
• 45:13
  reading of the Bible. Which is very plain, but
• 45:20
  we've allowed the deception of saying, those
• 45:25
  words meaning this or this is not that serious.
• 45:28
  No, it's pretty serious. because it changes completely
• 45:31
  how we approach everything. Yes. So let's take
• 45:35
  all of that context and let's bring it all the
• 45:37
  way back to Book of Enoch. What is the Book of
• 45:40
  Enoch? Well, no, that's great. I appreciate you
• 45:44
  saying that. Yeah. Because I love my rabbit trails.
• 45:47
  Well, and I think I call it the end of a rabbit
• 45:50
  trail. I wish it is. It was a rabbit trail, but
• 45:53
  it was pretty central to just understanding the
• 45:58
  importance of language. Yeah. and how things
• 46:01
  throughout history have been either pigeonholed
• 46:04
  or misrepresented by intention. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
• 46:09
  and I actually I want to bring some of that stuff
• 46:11
  up as we get into it. Especially as we are going
• 46:14
  to talk specifically about the Book of Enoch
• 46:16
  now. Yeah. That's a great little segue right
• 46:19
  there. Yeah. Is the intention of how we've been
• 46:23
  told to view this. Right. So what is it? So Enoch,
• 46:27
  who is the seventh from Adam, Yes. I think his
• 46:30
  dad was Jared. He's the great grandfather of
• 46:33
  Noah. No. It starts with an M. No, Methuselah
• 46:40
  is his son. No, I think... Is there another one?
• 46:44
  Sorry, keep going. Yeah, we could look that up.
• 46:46
  We've got a Bible right here. Oh, yeah. Didn't
• 46:49
  you have a physical... Hand me your actual Bible.
• 46:51
  Oh, yeah. Let's get the actual Bible out. Yeah,
• 46:52
  hand me the actual Bible. And for those of you
• 46:55
  who say that this is the actual Bible and not
• 46:57
  your phone, By the way, this is still technology.
• 47:00
  Ever heard of the printing press? Gutenberg.
• 47:05
  You did it again. But keep going. I'll find it.
• 47:08
  You said it again. I'll keep going. Yeah. Because
• 47:10
  I think Jared is, I think Jared's his grandfather.
• 47:13
  But keep going. You might be right. So Enoch,
• 47:17
  he's a very interesting figure that isn't written,
• 47:20
  there's not a lot written about him specifically
• 47:23
  in the Bible. There's actually nothing written.
• 47:26
  About Enoch in the Old Testament except for This
• 47:32
  verse it basically chronology. Yeah the chronology
• 47:35
  and within that the right word for it Probably
• 47:39
  the ancestry I think Ancestry .com hashtag sponsor
• 47:46
  us Oh boy, that would be weird wouldn't talk
• 47:50
  about you spirits So it says that Enoch walked
• 47:57
  with God and then he was no longer. And so he's
• 48:01
  a significant figure because he's not only one
• 48:05
  of two people to have never died, but he's the
• 48:08
  first one. I was wrong. Paul was right. Really?
• 48:12
  Yeah. Wow. I did not think I was right about
• 48:16
  that. I wanted to say it like that because I
• 48:17
  knew how much life it would give you. You're
• 48:21
  such a blessing. Here's a side note. I feel like
• 48:25
  the Holy Spirit reminds me of this. I sound like
• 48:28
  the most Pentecostal person ever by saying that,
• 48:32
  but I find it important to say that because I'm
• 48:34
  not just thinking about it. Like I'm not just
• 48:36
  thinking good things. The spirit of God within
• 48:40
  me has to bring those good things to my mind.
• 48:43
  No, same. But I was like, man, if I just, the
• 48:47
  people... who are supposed to do jobs that benefit
• 48:52
  me, why don't I just say, hey, thank you so much
• 48:56
  for doing a great job? Why don't I just say that
• 48:59
  all the time? It literally takes zero time and
• 49:03
  it means so much to people. So there's that little
• 49:08
  piece of... That's a good little nugget. That's
• 49:10
  nice. All right, yeah, so really the first time
• 49:13
  we see... I'm in Genesis five, but I think it's
• 49:17
  actually in Genesis four where we see him for
• 49:19
  the first time Okay, cuz I think that's where
• 49:21
  it's after the descendants of Cain. Yeah Genesis
• 49:25
  five is where we really see how old he is, but
• 49:27
  he's mentioned in Genesis four Because it mentions
• 49:31
  the line of Cain. Yeah, so in 17 It is a different
• 49:42
  Enoch. Yeah, which actually is a whole new topic
• 49:44
  right in and of itself. I know. But maybe we
• 49:47
  should mention that. Cain knew his wife and she
• 49:49
  conceived and bore Enoch. Which is a whole...
• 49:52
  Same spelling. When he built a city he called
• 49:54
  the name of the city after the name of his son,
• 49:58
  Enoch. Cain did. To Enoch was born Irad and then
• 50:03
  Irad fathered... Good luck with these names.
• 50:08
  Yeah. Mayhazal? And then he fathered Methuselah.
• 50:12
  Methuselah fathered Lamech and Lamech took two
• 50:15
  wives. Now the interesting thing in this break
• 50:18
  off though is that, oh yeah, because Enoch the
• 50:25
  seventh from Adam is technically from the line
• 50:27
  of Seth. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So that's actually
• 50:30
  an interesting distinction. So you have Adam
• 50:32
  and Eve. They do make a distinction of Enoch
• 50:35
  seventh from Adam. Right. Is very distinct from
• 50:39
  Enoch of Cain. Yes, yeah, yeah because and and
• 50:44
  the reason why maybe we should say this so like
• 50:47
  If you look at the chronology of Jesus, yeah
• 50:50
  and Was it Matthew and Luke? Maybe not in Luke
• 50:56
  Matthew mark anyways in Matthew definitely Definitely
• 51:01
  it's right here. I could just look at it in Matthew.
• 51:04
  It does not go back to Cain correct because Cain
• 51:09
  was cursed. Yeah. So the bloodline of Cain was
• 51:13
  cursed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm saying that
• 51:16
  specifically. But anyways. Because it's applicable
• 51:18
  to this very book that we're about to talk about.
• 51:21
  So that's and we need to do a whole episode on
• 51:24
  just like Genesis one through five or just Genesis
• 51:26
  one. Genesis one one's plenty. Yeah. But yeah.
• 51:31
  I mean just like quickly saying like Genesis
• 51:33
  five you kind of have a reset. And Genesis five,
• 51:37
  it starts back and it says, this is the book
• 51:38
  of the generations of Adam. When God created
• 51:41
  man and made him in the likeness, made him in
• 51:44
  the likeness of God. Male and female he created
• 51:47
  them and he blessed them and named them man when
• 51:50
  they were created. Yeah, so then it goes through
• 51:54
  and it names each one and it names Seth as the,
• 51:59
  like kind of like the first born again of Adam.
• 52:05
  It kind of resets there. And then from Seth,
• 52:09
  you have Enosh. And then Enosh is Canaan. And
• 52:16
  then Canaan fathers Mahalala? Mahalalel? Mahalalel.
• 52:24
  There we go. And then Mahalalel fathers Jared.
• 52:30
  And then Jared fathers Enoch. You're like, why
• 52:34
  are you going through all of this? This is the
• 52:36
  most boring part of the Bible. It's actually
• 52:38
  not. The chronology of the Bible is probably
• 52:40
  the most... Insanely important. It's so important.
• 52:44
  Yeah. It is boring to read. It's one of those
• 52:47
  like, if we didn't have this ancestry, I'm just
• 52:51
  going to keep saying that. Ancestry .com? Ancestry
• 52:55
  .com. Stay away. We'll get into that another
• 53:00
  time. If we don't have that, it's hard to verify
• 53:06
  a lot of things. And potentially, Christ is void.
• 53:11
  Yes. If this gets corrupted. Right. Yeah, because
• 53:16
  what you're looking at is a purity of bloodline
• 53:20
  and the importance of that. And it's like, why
• 53:23
  do you keep saying bloodline? It's like, well,
• 53:26
  if you're a Christian, then the blood of Christ
• 53:28
  is central. to being a Christian. And the reason
• 53:32
  why the blood of Christ is important is because
• 53:36
  the bloodline of Christ is important. And why
• 53:39
  is that important? It's important because Genesis
• 53:43
  6. Yeah, you said it. The tagline. Which we're
• 53:49
  actually not even talking about tonight. No,
• 53:51
  but I will say, so going back to the book of
• 53:54
  Enoch, sorry, Enoch himself. Yeah. So Enoch was
• 53:58
  we don't really know much about him as we said
• 54:00
  it's basically says he walked with God and then
• 54:03
  he was no longer Yeah, yeah, and let's talk about
• 54:06
  that for a second because it says when Jared
• 54:08
  had lived 162 years he fathered Enoch Jared lived
• 54:13
  after after he fathered Enoch 800 years. That's
• 54:15
  a long time Thus all the days of Jared were 962
• 54:18
  years when Enoch had lived 65 years. He fathered
• 54:21
  Methuselah Enoch walked with God Why did I say
• 54:25
  it like that he walked with God Enoch walked
• 54:31
  with God After he fathered Methuselah 300 years
• 54:35
  and had other sons and daughters. Apparently
• 54:38
  they were not important Well, so the that's like
• 54:44
  that's a funny I feel like that's a funny like
• 54:45
  youth pastor joke to make but the truth is is
• 54:48
  The importance of the bloodline is the firstborn.
• 54:51
  Yeah. So yeah as you go through like Enoch walked
• 54:55
  with God after he fathered Methuselah 300 years
• 54:57
  and had the sons and daughters. Thus all the
• 54:59
  days of Enoch were 365 years. Which is kind of
• 55:02
  interesting. That's kind of interesting right
• 55:03
  there. It's kind of interesting. Enoch walked
• 55:06
  with God and he was not for God took him. Now
• 55:11
  the breakdown of that too is like if you look
• 55:13
  at the footnotes of that it's a lot of times
• 55:16
  it'll say he walked with God and he was not for...
• 55:21
  Yeah, the Lord took him. Yeah, and he was not
• 55:24
  to be found. So the footnote in there from the
• 55:28
  translation is that he walked with God and he
• 55:30
  was not, or he was not to be found. So there
• 55:35
  is a mythology to Enoch, and I say mythology
• 55:40
  because it's not actually in the Bible, but there
• 55:45
  is a mythology with Enoch that it's not that
• 55:48
  he was potentially taken up, but that he was
• 55:51
  taken aside. in a monk -like state, similar to
• 55:56
  John the Baptist. And we kind of see that in
• 56:00
  the Book of Enoch itself, where there's times
• 56:03
  where they have to go and find him, and they're
• 56:05
  like, where is he? Yeah, it's similar to John
• 56:10
  the Baptist, it's similar to Moses, it's similar
• 56:14
  to a lot of key figures that are critical to...
• 56:20
  the writing of the Bible and the moving of God's
• 56:23
  people. That there are intentional people that
• 56:28
  set time aside and they are just with God. Yeah.
• 56:33
  And it's credited to them. Like it's credited
• 56:37
  to them throughout that they are put aside to
• 56:40
  be with God. And the only other person who was
• 56:44
  with God and was not was Elijah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 56:48
  So you only have two instances of this. But Enoch
• 56:53
  is the first. Yeah. And then we just never hear
• 56:56
  about him again. Yeah, he's just kind of like
• 56:58
  meh. I mean, we have a lot of stuff about Elijah.
• 57:01
  It's true. Yeah. So that is interesting. The
• 57:04
  interesting thing is what we see from Enoch mostly,
• 57:08
  especially in the New Testament, is references
• 57:11
  to his writings. Yes. But we don't see references
• 57:14
  necessarily talking about him. Except for Hebrews
• 57:17
  it brings smoke it does. Yeah, that's right.
• 57:20
  I was like no actually there's another spot that
• 57:21
  talks about yeah Yeah, so in the Old Testament
• 57:24
  Enoch is not by name mentioned again, correct
• 57:27
  So in the Old Testament you see him mentioned
• 57:30
  You see him only mentioned once Genesis 5. Yeah,
• 57:35
  and then you don't see it again until He's mentioned
• 57:40
  in Luke I believe Luke 14 And I need to bring
• 57:45
  that up You gave me a version that has all this
• 57:48
  commentary in it. It's a study Bible. Yeah Which
• 57:52
  is something to talk about? It is yeah, especially
• 57:55
  in light of this. Yeah, let me see if I can find
• 57:57
  it But while you're pulling that up, I kind of
• 57:59
  want to do a little intro for the book of Enoch
• 58:01
  as well. Okay? As we're going into this Because
• 58:06
  yeah Enoch is a significant figure that we see
• 58:08
  even with just the one verse we see in the Old
• 58:10
  Testament about him in Genesis That alone kind
• 58:14
  of sets them up to be someone who's worth paying
• 58:16
  attention to. And so the book of Enoch is believed
• 58:21
  to be the writings based on what he wrote. Now
• 58:28
  there are three books of Enoch. There's Enoch
• 58:30
  1, 2, and 3. But the 2 and 3 are typically considered
• 58:34
  just like fan fiction and not to be authenticated.
• 58:39
  And so Enoch 1 is the one that really is the
• 58:43
  only thing that people or referencing or referring
• 58:45
  to when they talk about the Book of Enoch. Yeah,
• 58:47
  and it's broken up into different books. So like
• 58:50
  the easiest thing to say is like Book of Enoch,
• 58:52
  the Book of the Watchers. Yeah. And then the
• 58:54
  parables. Correct. So those within Enoch one,
• 58:58
  there are things where it's like, I don't know
• 59:01
  about that. Yeah. And some of it is like translation
• 59:04
  passed down. Correct. So the other thing that's
• 59:07
  important to say is like, like the Book of Enoch.
• 59:10
  it's taken from Enoch the seventh from Adam.
• 59:15
  That doesn't necessarily mean that it was actually
• 59:18
  him who wrote it, and it definitely doesn't mean
• 59:21
  it's him who wrote all of it. However, it's true
• 59:23
  of apocryphal books that many apocryphal books
• 59:27
  are named after key biblical figures. What's
• 59:31
  weird is that the book of Enoch is written using
• 59:37
  his name way before any other apocryphal books.
• 59:41
  Yeah. So like if you look at apocryphal books
• 59:43
  who take like the gospel, the gospel of Judas,
• 59:49
  there's several other ones. But there's the gospel
• 59:50
  of Mary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like those it's
• 59:54
  common for early Christians to have written apocryphal
• 59:58
  writings that are more like fan fiction off of
• 1:00:01
  it. Honestly, the same thing as like The Chosen.
• 1:00:05
  Like The Chosen is basically fan fiction of like
• 1:00:08
  modern depiction of with elaborations on different
• 1:00:11
  things. And so that type of thing is like, well
• 1:00:15
  technically, if you were to read The Chosen in
• 1:00:18
  a thousand years, you're reading an apocryphal
• 1:00:20
  writing. Yes. Yeah, so it's all these things
• 1:00:25
  that didn't technically happen in the Bible.
• 1:00:26
  Someone just... expounded on storylines. It was
• 1:00:30
  their vision of what, same with like Paradise
• 1:00:32
  Lost, it's like what do I think could have happened
• 1:00:34
  in between the stuff we know happened. Yeah,
• 1:00:37
  but it's important to distinguish in the book
• 1:00:39
  of Enoch that the timelines, do you want to talk
• 1:00:42
  a little bit about that? So like Enoch, one Enoch,
• 1:00:45
  two Enoch, three Enoch, they're dated differently.
• 1:00:50
  That's something you knew way more about than
• 1:00:52
  me. Okay, so I want to hear you say it. Okay
• 1:00:54
  Okay, you don't you dove way more into that I
• 1:00:56
  don't remember where it is, but I feel like something's
• 1:00:59
  brought up in like Luke 14 I'd have to look it
• 1:01:02
  up later, but let me I'll do some searching while
• 1:01:04
  you're talking about timeline. Okay Yeah, just
• 1:01:07
  just look up because the main one is Hebrews
• 1:01:10
  10. So Hebrews 10 brings up Enoch very specifically
• 1:01:15
  and then Maybe we can just listen to it. I was
• 1:01:21
  doing an audio book earlier. There we go. But
• 1:01:23
  yeah, so briefly, to jump through this, if you
• 1:01:28
  look at the 66 books of the Bible, they're written
• 1:01:32
  at different points in time, and they're accredited
• 1:01:36
  to different writers, all by the inspiration
• 1:01:38
  of the Holy Spirit. So the book of Enoch, as
• 1:01:43
  we understand it, for the most part, the version
• 1:01:47
  that we had initially was what we would call
• 1:01:51
  like the Ethiopian version. So the Ethiopian
• 1:01:54
  version of the book of Enoch was the one that
• 1:01:58
  we've had for a long time. It was in an Ethiopic
• 1:02:03
  language but translated to that language believed
• 1:02:07
  to be from Hebrew and then into Greek and then
• 1:02:11
  into the Ethiopic. language and then later on
• 1:02:14
  into into English and Actually later on by I
• 1:02:21
  had the guy's name Later on into English, what
• 1:02:28
  was the guy's name? All right, not right now
• 1:02:33
  I won't tell you but Anyways, it was translated
• 1:02:36
  later on into English. The thing that's interesting
• 1:02:39
  about that is when you look at the Dead Sea Scrolls,
• 1:02:42
  so the Dead Sea Scrolls are, yeah, so we probably
• 1:02:46
  should have jumped into this right away. But
• 1:02:48
  the Dead Sea Scrolls, did you find it? Oh yeah,
• 1:02:54
  isn't that interesting? So this would actually
• 1:02:58
  be technically the first mention of Enoch. In
• 1:03:03
  the New Testament. In the New Testament. Yes.
• 1:03:05
  So you want to read it? Yeah, so this is following
• 1:03:08
  that same chronology there. And all we're doing
• 1:03:11
  is using scripture to tell who Enoch actually
• 1:03:17
  is. Yeah. And then potentially tie that to what
• 1:03:21
  might... Genealogy. Thank you. That's it. So
• 1:03:24
  yeah, so this is Luke 3, starting in verse 23,
• 1:03:28
  the genealogy of Jesus Christ. So... It starts
• 1:03:31
  with Jesus, and then it says he was from the
• 1:03:35
  son of, from the son of, from the son of, all
• 1:03:36
  the way down to verse 37, the son of Methuselah,
• 1:03:41
  the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of
• 1:03:44
  Mahalel? Mahalel. The son of Canaan, the son
• 1:03:49
  of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the
• 1:03:53
  son of God. Yeah. And so that's that first, bringing
• 1:03:58
  back into showing that Jesus is a descendant
• 1:04:03
  of the bloodline of Enoch, starting with Adam.
• 1:04:08
  Yeah, and so that falls back in line with the
• 1:04:11
  seventh from Adam. Yes. So that's the importance
• 1:04:14
  of the genealogy, is that basically what you're
• 1:04:17
  looking at is Luke, several thousand years later,
• 1:04:24
  is writing down the genealogy that lines up with
• 1:04:29
  Genesis 5. Yeah, so it brings some validity and
• 1:04:32
  tying in the New Testament the Old Testament
• 1:04:34
  together and basically setting up like hey This
• 1:04:37
  is the same story. We're continuing this story
• 1:04:40
  It with the events that are happening. Do you
• 1:04:44
  want to also look up? It's Hebrews 10 Yeah, so
• 1:04:49
  and just to briefly bring this together because
• 1:04:51
  I feel like there's so much stuff that we kind
• 1:04:53
  of just spread it out forever. We did. Yeah.
• 1:04:56
  So so like simply put, like when we look at who
• 1:05:00
  Enoch is and the book of Enoch itself, what is
• 1:05:04
  believed and understood? And I think people would
• 1:05:08
  argue this and have argued this for a long time.
• 1:05:11
  Even a lot of the early Christians, like when
• 1:05:13
  you look at and by early Christians, I'm not
• 1:05:15
  talking about early church. I'm talking about
• 1:05:19
  people who knew Paul but actually lived a little
• 1:05:24
  bit later. And then you have people like Tertullian
• 1:05:28
  who was like 160 AD. You have Clement, you have
• 1:05:35
  Origen, you have a lot of these early church
• 1:05:36
  fathers that helped develop the creeds and different
• 1:05:39
  things like that. A lot of them actually vouched
• 1:05:44
  for the Book of Enoch as canonical, and not the
• 1:05:48
  whole thing. And a lot of it was because some
• 1:05:54
  of it, the beginning of it, the Book of the Watchers,
• 1:05:57
  most of the Book of the Watchers, and then the
• 1:05:59
  parables, they predate the birth of Christ. So
• 1:06:05
  the reason why we know this is because what we
• 1:06:08
  had was the Ethiopian text. And then when the
• 1:06:12
  Dead Sea Scrolls were found in, I believe, 1948,
• 1:06:16
  or 1947, just before Israel became a state again.
• 1:06:22
  When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, basically
• 1:06:26
  at Qumran, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were, the
• 1:06:30
  second most copied book other than the Bible
• 1:06:35
  was the Book of Enoch. And the Book of Enoch
• 1:06:40
  and the Essenes were at Qumran. And so Qumran
• 1:06:44
  is where the Dead Sea Scrolls were and Qumran
• 1:06:46
  was only a community from like 300 -200 BC until
• 1:06:53
  the fall of Jerusalem, so 70 AD. So it was only
• 1:06:58
  a community for that amount of time. So the scrolls
• 1:07:01
  that they had there from the Book of Enoch were
• 1:07:04
  scrolls that they would have brought with them
• 1:07:09
  there. Some people believe that They were scribes
• 1:07:13
  there but a lot more stuff has come out about
• 1:07:15
  that that They didn't actually a lot of a lot
• 1:07:18
  of people believe that they they weren't copying
• 1:07:21
  texts there but instead that they were bringing
• 1:07:23
  them there because The Essenes were a priestly
• 1:07:28
  community and you literally it was like a monastery
• 1:07:33
  Where everybody all of the Essenes were all?
• 1:07:39
  ritualized priests and they all came from the
• 1:07:46
  Sadducees. And the Sadducees, if you know that
• 1:07:50
  word from the New Testament, the Sadducees were
• 1:07:53
  a group of people who held to the law, and they
• 1:07:56
  only, this is actually kind of cool, the Sadducees
• 1:08:00
  really, one of the things that differentiated
• 1:08:03
  them is that they only believed that the written
• 1:08:08
  scrolls were the true word of God. So they didn't
• 1:08:13
  go off of any oral tradition. They held to that.
• 1:08:17
  And they were of the tradition of the high priest
• 1:08:22
  of the second temple. I forget his name. I'm
• 1:08:28
  not gonna ask you what it is. I don't have it
• 1:08:29
  off the top of my head. But yeah, so they broke
• 1:08:31
  off of that. And basically what that means is...
• 1:08:33
  that line of high priests that came from the
• 1:08:36
  second temple, they preserved the scriptures
• 1:08:40
  in Babylon and they brought them there and it
• 1:08:43
  was important for them when they reestablished
• 1:08:45
  the temple that they had the original scrolls,
• 1:08:48
  that they weren't just going off of what they
• 1:08:50
  remembered because of all of the stuff that they
• 1:08:53
  experienced in Babylon. So all the stuff that
• 1:08:55
  they experienced in Babylon, other lowercase
• 1:08:58
  g gods actively at work, when they came back
• 1:09:01
  they wanted to they were reading the scrolls
• 1:09:04
  again and as they were reading the scrolls it
• 1:09:06
  became important to them that their understanding
• 1:09:09
  of the Old Testament was based off of the scrolls,
• 1:09:11
  not off of oral tradition. So it brings a lot
• 1:09:14
  of validity to what was found at Qumran and then
• 1:09:17
  ultimately a little bit of validity to the Book
• 1:09:21
  of Enoch itself being the second most found scroll
• 1:09:25
  there. And the Essenes were a special group as
• 1:09:27
  well because they were, for lack of a better
• 1:09:30
  way to say, they were considered I think even
• 1:09:32
  by Jesus himself the most right out of everyone
• 1:09:35
  Where it's like they actually held and they thought
• 1:09:38
  that of themselves like they held to the law
• 1:09:41
  As like closer and more accurately than anyone
• 1:09:45
  at that time had Yeah, they were they were what
• 1:09:48
  you would consider zealots. Yeah zealots except
• 1:09:51
  for they were pacifists Correct. So what basically
• 1:09:55
  what they did and then we'll we'll move on and
• 1:09:57
  then we probably need to wrap up I have this
• 1:09:58
  verse here too. Okay. Yeah, but because there
• 1:10:01
  is more that we could talk about, but I like
• 1:10:03
  talking about the history of this. Yeah, I'll
• 1:10:05
  tie a little bow on it with the original question
• 1:10:07
  in the beginning. Okay. I'll try to. Like one
• 1:10:09
  of the things that's important to know about
• 1:10:11
  the people at Qumran, and maybe we could do a
• 1:10:14
  whole thing with Dead Sea Scrolls and stuff like
• 1:10:16
  that, but the people at Qumran, they actually
• 1:10:20
  built Qumran as a new Jerusalem. And the weird
• 1:10:24
  thing is, is like the way that, so Jerusalem
• 1:10:27
  sits on Mount Moriah, which is there's valley
• 1:10:31
  all the way around Mount Moriah and then there's
• 1:10:33
  mountain ranges around that. And if you go out,
• 1:10:39
  Qumran is only like 30 minutes away from Jerusalem.
• 1:10:43
  They basically just went down to the Jordan Valley,
• 1:10:47
  just east of Jerusalem, which is like a 30 minute
• 1:10:50
  at most car ride. So they went down to the Jordan
• 1:10:54
  Valley and then they basically built a replica
• 1:10:57
  of the city of Jerusalem. And then the only people
• 1:11:00
  that could enter Qumran were people that were
• 1:11:04
  of the priestly order or went through the process
• 1:11:07
  of priesthood. So Qumran was they believed that
• 1:11:11
  they were the children of light and that they
• 1:11:15
  were the ones that were correct and that they
• 1:11:17
  were the righteous ones. So you could only be
• 1:11:20
  in a scene if you were a priest or if you went
• 1:11:23
  through the process of becoming a priest. So
• 1:11:27
  they held all of the texts. extremely sacred.
• 1:11:31
  And the stuff didn't deteriorate or essentially
• 1:11:36
  go away with the destruction of Jerusalem in
• 1:11:39
  70 AD because they hid the scrolls in the caves
• 1:11:42
  in the surrounding area of Qumran. And they were
• 1:11:46
  preserved extraordinarily well. They were, because
• 1:11:49
  they were written on papyrus, but then they were
• 1:11:53
  also written on different types of stones and
• 1:11:55
  metals, which is kind of cool. It is pretty cool.
• 1:11:59
  Yeah. Yeah, so I guess... Do you want to... all
• 1:12:04
  that? The Hebrews passage? Oh yeah. Package.
• 1:12:06
  The Hebrews passage. So it is... And then yeah,
• 1:12:09
  we should wrap it up. Yeah, because we've been
• 1:12:10
  going for a while. I know, maybe this is a part
• 1:12:12
  two. If you can't tell, we're Bible nerds. We
• 1:12:16
  like the Bible. We do. So this is Hebrews 11
• 1:12:22
  .5. By faith, Enoch was taken up so that he should
• 1:12:26
  not see death. and he was not found because God
• 1:12:29
  had taken him. Now before he was taken, he was
• 1:12:33
  commended as having pleased God." Yeah, so basically
• 1:12:39
  what that's telling us is the only account of
• 1:12:45
  Enoch in the Bible that is descriptive of who
• 1:12:50
  he was through what means. Because all we have
• 1:12:56
  in Genesis 5 is that he walked with God and then
• 1:13:00
  he was not that's all it says. Yeah So what we're
• 1:13:05
  saying is you look at Hebrews 10 11 11. Yeah,
• 1:13:10
  10 11 11 11 11 5. Ok, Hebrews 11 5. I wanted
• 1:13:15
  to be 10 so bad for you Well, that was close.
• 1:13:18
  We were very close. I would not have gotten that
• 1:13:20
  close But the the cool thing about that is that
• 1:13:23
  basically the writer of Hebrews which arguably
• 1:13:26
  no one really lands on anything Maybe it's Enoch
• 1:13:30
  The writers of the writer of Hebrew talks about
• 1:13:38
  Enoch in a way that's traditionally laid out
• 1:13:43
  more in the book of Enoch and One of the things
• 1:13:46
  that Paul and I were talking about a little bit
• 1:13:48
  is I think and and I definitely want to bring
• 1:13:51
  up Jude Yeah, before we wrap up the question.
• 1:13:55
  I was actually just about to go there myself.
• 1:13:56
  Okay, perfect So let me say this. So yeah, so
• 1:13:59
  the thing about Enoch and who Enoch was When
• 1:14:04
  you kind of go like alright, well apocryphal
• 1:14:06
  books a lot of times took the names of biblical
• 1:14:09
  characters. Yes But you also have the New Testament
• 1:14:13
  talking about Enoch in reference to Genesis 5
• 1:14:16
  which is in the scripture But expounding on him
• 1:14:19
  with knowledge from the book of Enoch itself
• 1:14:23
  So in that description, it's tying the two things
• 1:14:27
  together in a way that's like, maybe this was
• 1:14:31
  not necessarily God -breathed, not saying that.
• 1:14:35
  And I don't think most people are saying that.
• 1:14:37
  I don't think anybody's really saying that. Like,
• 1:14:39
  I think everybody kind of agrees that the Book
• 1:14:42
  of Enoch is an apocryphal text. I think what
• 1:14:45
  the argument is, is should the Book of Enoch
• 1:14:48
  be considered in the conversation of Christians
• 1:14:53
  as a, actually, I heard somebody reference it
• 1:15:00
  as a potential Rosetta Stone, that it's something
• 1:15:05
  that opens up a whole other context that kind
• 1:15:07
  of gives language for, because there's a lot
• 1:15:09
  of things, and maybe the next episode should
• 1:15:12
  be... I think we should get into it a little
• 1:15:15
  bit. Yeah, into even what you're going to talk
• 1:15:18
  about in Jude just for briefly. But that being
• 1:15:22
  said, basically what we see is the Bible talks
• 1:15:24
  about who Enoch is and then it references him
• 1:15:28
  a little bit more in Hebrews way, way later.
• 1:15:32
  And so what we see about that and what we have
• 1:15:35
  to understand is that there was a worldview,
• 1:15:37
  there were books that they read, there were scrolls
• 1:15:39
  that they read as early Christians, as Jewish
• 1:15:42
  people that They knew the context of this and
• 1:15:45
  they understood that. And just like Paul is handing
• 1:15:48
  me an ESV study Bible, that study Bible has commentary
• 1:15:52
  in it. The commentary is not God -breathed. The
• 1:15:55
  commentary is somebody who's writing down information
• 1:15:59
  that may help you read the Bible and it may help
• 1:16:02
  you give a broader context to it. That's all
• 1:16:05
  I would argue that the position that we should
• 1:16:09
  take on what the book of Enoch is. is a potential
• 1:16:13
  commentary on where the Bible starts to talk
• 1:16:17
  about things in such a brief fashion because
• 1:16:21
  it's understanding that the reader already knows
• 1:16:25
  the full context. And the full context actually
• 1:16:28
  only comes from the book of Enoch itself. So
• 1:16:32
  there are a lot of places in the Bible, not just
• 1:16:36
  the Old Testament, mostly in the New Testament,
• 1:16:40
  that reference directly the book of Enoch, because
• 1:16:43
  arguably we don't know either the book of Enoch,
• 1:16:46
  the book of the Watchers, and the parables are
• 1:16:47
  mostly written by Enoch himself, the seventh
• 1:16:50
  from Adam, or they're written at least before
• 1:16:53
  the birth of Christ, but they speak so much to
• 1:16:58
  Christ himself. Yeah, the the the light to the
• 1:17:04
  Gentiles the one by whom salvation will come
• 1:17:07
  it speaks the book of Enoch Speaks about Jesus
• 1:17:09
  in a way that the Old Testament doesn't directly
• 1:17:12
  In a more direct fashion. Yeah, so and maybe
• 1:17:18
  the I'll wrap it up with something after you
• 1:17:21
  talk about Jude Okay Yeah, I mean there's a lot
• 1:17:28
  inside of there there is that And I think the
• 1:17:32
  biggest thing that I think we need to walk away
• 1:17:36
  from this conversation, trying to keep it as
• 1:17:40
  surface as we can with it. Because the question
• 1:17:43
  really, we had to keep stepping back to like,
• 1:17:48
  why are we even talking about this? It's a big
• 1:17:52
  question to ask, especially because when, I think
• 1:17:55
  most people have heard of the Book of Enoch.
• 1:17:57
  And so, especially now, people have heard about
• 1:18:00
  it. And initially we're like, ugh. And like you
• 1:18:04
  brought up with commentary, I think that's a
• 1:18:07
  great parallel to bring up is, well, are we gonna
• 1:18:12
  say that commentary is scripture? Absolutely
• 1:18:15
  not. I don't think anyone would argue that. But
• 1:18:18
  commentary helps us as a non -ancient Jew. to
• 1:18:23
  inform us on what is going on. You're a non -ancient
• 1:18:26
  Jew? Believe it or not. That should be our first
• 1:18:31
  t -shirt. Non -ancient Jew. I'm just saying,
• 1:18:39
  that would be a good bumper sticker for sure.
• 1:18:40
  That would be pretty good. There's our merch.
• 1:18:43
  Let us know what you guys think. Actually, we
• 1:18:45
  would be non -ancient non -Jews. Yeah, because
• 1:18:48
  we're not even Jewish. At least I'm not. I gotta
• 1:18:52
  go on Ancetissue .com. We didn't even get into
• 1:18:54
  red hair. Trust me, that's it. Yeah, maybe next
• 1:19:01
  episode I'll say, why do you have red hair? What
• 1:19:05
  fingers do I have? What was I saying? Wow, that's
• 1:19:11
  a whole different episode, too. Guys, this podcast
• 1:19:16
  is going to have many episodes. So welcome aboard.
• 1:19:19
  As a non -ancient Jew. non -ancient, non -Jew.
• 1:19:24
  What was I talking about? A context, commentary.
• 1:19:26
  I lost my point. What was I saying? Sorry. No,
• 1:19:28
  you're good. The commentary, like the importance
• 1:19:30
  of the commentary as a context. Oh, yeah. Sorry.
• 1:19:32
  Yeah, no, you're good. Thank you. I was like,
• 1:19:34
  that just went right out of my head. So it's
• 1:19:38
  funny. So we're not going to be the ones to say,
• 1:19:40
  oh, that is scripture. But yet, we're comfortable
• 1:19:43
  putting thoughts by, like, Smart scholarly people
• 1:19:48
  were comfortable putting that in this in the
• 1:19:51
  Word of God next to it to help us read it I would
• 1:19:54
  I would go so far as to say we're comfortable
• 1:19:57
  with people who didn't go to Bible college at
• 1:20:00
  all Telling us how to live our lives by the Bible.
• 1:20:04
  Yeah, but we're not okay with yeah, and that's
• 1:20:08
  exactly I'm at but we're not okay with Someone
• 1:20:12
  who's a lot closer to the original writers. Someone
• 1:20:16
  who walked with God and then was not. Yeah, someone's
• 1:20:19
  spoken very highly within the same book and we're
• 1:20:21
  saying entirely let's get rid of the entire thing.
• 1:20:26
  And I think that is potentially foolish to do.
• 1:20:30
  And the reason I say that in a very strong way
• 1:20:33
  like that to you is... When we when we study
• 1:20:39
  scripture our intent is to understand it better.
• 1:20:41
  Hopefully Absolutely. And so how do we understand
• 1:20:44
  it better? Well as a non -ancient non -geo, I
• 1:20:49
  Don't even speak the language It's like there's
• 1:20:53
  so much I'm so distant from Everything that was
• 1:20:56
  going on to to the audience that it was written
• 1:21:00
  to yes that I need to enter into that world I
• 1:21:05
  need to I want to step back like pull it in a
• 1:21:07
  little bit and say, what's going on? And sometimes
• 1:21:10
  one of the things that I found, and I know a
• 1:21:11
  lot of other scholars do the same thing, is let's
• 1:21:14
  look at ancient Babylonian texts, Mesopotamian
• 1:21:17
  texts. And we're not saying that that's scripture,
• 1:21:20
  but that can help inform us, which is what commentary
• 1:21:23
  does, in what's going on. Even when we talk about
• 1:21:28
  Stephen, why did Stephen give him a history lesson?
• 1:21:31
  It's like, well, it was very important to what
• 1:21:34
  they were accusing him of. It's the context that's
• 1:21:36
  added. Well, I think of it I think of the two
• 1:21:38
  men on the road to that Jesus appears to after
• 1:21:41
  his resurrection Yeah, he appears to them and
• 1:21:44
  it says that he opened up the scriptures to them
• 1:21:47
  and their hearts burned within them Yeah, I think
• 1:21:49
  that's what Stephen's doing. Absolutely. I think
• 1:21:51
  that's what we're supposed to do I agree that
• 1:21:53
  when we speak about the Bible and what and we
• 1:21:56
  unfold we allow the Holy Spirit to work through
• 1:21:59
  us to Unfold what the scriptures are saying.
• 1:22:01
  Yeah that the hearers heart will burn within
• 1:22:04
  them Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's great, especially
• 1:22:07
  when we look at what's the point of the Bible?
• 1:22:10
  Sure. The Bible is not just this big old history
• 1:22:15
  book. It's not a fully comprehensive thing. If
• 1:22:17
  it was, it'd be a lot more pages. And even the
• 1:22:20
  Bible itself says if they were going to be comprehensive
• 1:22:22
  about even the life of Christ, there wouldn't
• 1:22:24
  be enough ink. We would drain the ocean dry trying
• 1:22:27
  to write about everything that Christ did within
• 1:22:29
  his time frame. The earth wouldn't contain it.
• 1:22:32
  Yeah. And so it's like... So why do we expect
• 1:22:35
  it to be comprehensive in every single level,
• 1:22:38
  especially when it doesn't have to be, when the
• 1:22:40
  Bible itself can say, hey, someone else already
• 1:22:42
  wrote about this, just go read their stuff. And
• 1:22:45
  so that's when we bring up Jude, because Jude
• 1:22:48
  and 2 Peter as well, those are two big references.
• 1:22:51
  Jesus himself makes some references during the
• 1:22:55
  Sermon on the Mount and then throughout his ministry,
• 1:23:00
  just to name a couple. um to the writings of
• 1:23:03
  Enoch and what he preferred to call himself yeah
• 1:23:06
  son of man yeah that's a massive one that's huge
• 1:23:10
  and that's straight from from Enoch um so at
• 1:23:14
  the very least we can say that some of Enoch's
• 1:23:18
  writings are worth paying attention to yeah and
• 1:23:22
  then i think that's where it's the other part
• 1:23:26
  of scripture which um it says test the spirits
• 1:23:30
  right And it's like, ultimately it's like, we're
• 1:23:32
  supposed to test scripture itself to show that
• 1:23:36
  it's true. One of my favorite things is when
• 1:23:37
  we look at the ministries in the New Testament,
• 1:23:40
  what did Paul do? He went and he reasoned with
• 1:23:43
  them. And it's like, that means it's reasonable.
• 1:23:46
  The scriptures are reasonable. And so what things
• 1:23:49
  inform scripture? What things help us inform
• 1:23:51
  what the story is? What's the context of the
• 1:23:54
  scripture? What's our duty in this? What's our
• 1:23:57
  application? And I think... One of my favorite
• 1:24:00
  quotes is, those who do not study history are
• 1:24:03
  doomed to repeat it. Right. So how do we know
• 1:24:06
  the full story? Well, we need to read the full
• 1:24:08
  text. Yes. I'm not saying scripture is incomplete
• 1:24:11
  by any means. Right. But I'm saying there's context
• 1:24:14
  that's missing because I'm not that person at
• 1:24:17
  that time. Yeah. Yeah, and whereas the scriptures,
• 1:24:23
  the 66 books, canonical Bible, It contains the
• 1:24:30
  entirety of the mystery of God within it. Absolutely.
• 1:24:34
  But there's also a saying that all truth is God's
• 1:24:37
  truth. Yeah. And when you go through, there's
• 1:24:41
  also a scripture in Revelation that says the
• 1:24:44
  testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
• 1:24:48
  And if any text testifies of Jesus, it has the
• 1:24:55
  spirit of prophecy. according to Revelation and
• 1:24:59
  so because of that the book of Enoch itself has
• 1:25:04
  many many places in the first two in the book
• 1:25:08
  of the Watchers and in the parables that Testify
• 1:25:12
  of who Jesus is in a major way. It's actually
• 1:25:14
  one of the main reasons why Early Jewish leaders
• 1:25:20
  Tried to rewrite some things tried to push it
• 1:25:26
  out and tried to let it not be part of what was
• 1:25:31
  and you kind of go like well wait they weren't
• 1:25:34
  canonizing scripture they weren't but it was
• 1:25:37
  probably in their synagogues because why else
• 1:25:39
  were they pushing into it right and what was
• 1:25:42
  being read in those synagogues like when you
• 1:25:44
  have all of that yeah i think it's important
• 1:25:47
  to kind of go like uh i want to hear about what
• 1:25:52
  paul has to say but what about the people that
• 1:25:57
  Followed Paul. What about the other people? You
• 1:26:00
  know, it's like yes scripture is fully complete
• 1:26:03
  within itself Yeah, absolutely contains the full
• 1:26:05
  mystery of God but the mystery of God if Someone
• 1:26:10
  else has some more information. Yeah kind of
• 1:26:13
  want to know Yeah, and you test it and what do
• 1:26:16
  you test it against you test against the Bible?
• 1:26:18
  Absolutely. It's really easy. It's a litmus test.
• 1:26:21
  Yeah, you just put it against the Bible and if
• 1:26:23
  it's like The Bible doesn't really talk too much
• 1:26:26
  about fairies. So, or maybe it does. And that's
• 1:26:31
  when it's like, let's break it down. Let's open
• 1:26:34
  it up. Yeah, and let's look at it. I think that's
• 1:26:36
  a big thing when we can open up these things.
• 1:26:38
  We realize that scripture does speak to all things.
• 1:26:41
  Yeah. But we have to be the ones to open it up
• 1:26:44
  and look at it for what it is and not for what
• 1:26:46
  we think it is. Yes. And I think that should
• 1:26:49
  be our... That's my encouragement to our posture
• 1:26:52
  toward the book of Enoch in particular in this
• 1:26:54
  case is I'm not saying everything in there is
• 1:26:56
  right because I think some of the is corrupted
• 1:26:58
  but That doesn't mean all of it is And I think
• 1:27:03
  that there is truth in there. How do we do how
• 1:27:06
  do we sparse? What is true? What is not true?
• 1:27:09
  Well, one of them is I'm gonna sound Pentecostal
• 1:27:11
  here before the Holy Spirit Absolutely. Yeah,
• 1:27:15
  let let that be your guide. The other one is
• 1:27:17
  is the Bible. How does it line up to the Bible?
• 1:27:19
  Because as St. Augustine, and you quoted, all
• 1:27:22
  truth is God's truth. One of my favorite things
• 1:27:24
  that I say is truth is truth is truth. Yeah.
• 1:27:27
  And that if it's true, it will always be true
• 1:27:30
  no matter what. Yeah. If you have someone that's
• 1:27:32
  saying, oh, this is reality, and the Bible says,
• 1:27:35
  no, this is, well, someone's wrong. Right. Yeah.
• 1:27:38
  And it could be me. Yeah. It could be, you know,
• 1:27:41
  just the third party. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. But I
• 1:27:45
  think it's important for all of us to take that
• 1:27:46
  humility, that humble approach. and kind of do
• 1:27:50
  that. But one of the things I think about as
• 1:27:53
  we wrap this up is essentially like there are
• 1:27:56
  things in the Book of Enoch that can parallel
• 1:28:00
  and maybe give a little bit more context, not
• 1:28:02
  a ton of context, not create a whole other situation
• 1:28:06
  or a whole other book, but instead just develop
• 1:28:11
  a little bit more. And we literally see the writer
• 1:28:15
  of Hebrews use the Book of Enoch to do just that,
• 1:28:20
  to take Genesis 5 and go, here's a little bit
• 1:28:22
  more. Well, where did they get it from? The book
• 1:28:24
  of Enoch. So you kind of just go like, all right,
• 1:28:26
  it's just a little bit more to open up a little
• 1:28:28
  bit more, to see a little bit more, to know a
• 1:28:30
  little bit more. And also it's very subtle things
• 1:28:34
  that I think open up maybe big themes in the
• 1:28:38
  scripture that we'll get into in later episodes.
• 1:28:41
  It opens the door just a little bit wider and
• 1:28:45
  goes, there's actually a huge history to this.
• 1:28:48
  And it's throughout everything. And we should
• 1:28:51
  really talk about that. But one of the things
• 1:28:53
  I think about is something as simple as, if you
• 1:29:00
  don't think that you're not already letting apocryphal
• 1:29:05
  things influence your scriptural view, How many
• 1:29:11
  wise men were there? Right? Yeah. There were
• 1:29:15
  not three wise men. Right. That's not in the
• 1:29:18
  Bible. If you think that there were three wise
• 1:29:20
  men, there's not. There's three gifts. There's
• 1:29:24
  not three wise men. It's the wise men from the
• 1:29:26
  East. Yeah. So we don't know how many there were.
• 1:29:30
  We just know there were three gifts. Yeah. That's
• 1:29:33
  one of those things where the apocryphal things
• 1:29:35
  that are influencing that are movies. and books
• 1:29:40
  and things that we see back then it was scrolls
• 1:29:46
  and a high priest or a priest reading that in
• 1:29:50
  the synagogue or a rabbi reading that in the
• 1:29:54
  synagogue and so that's those things it's like
• 1:29:57
  yeah yeah um so that's like yeah uh not even
• 1:30:06
  touching the surface but hopefully maybe a little
• 1:30:08
  bit of an introduction of of the Book of Enoch
• 1:30:11
  itself. Yeah, but I think more than anything,
• 1:30:15
  the importance in the takeaway from this episode
• 1:30:20
  was more of a challenge for ourselves. Yeah.
• 1:30:24
  Let's challenge our own beliefs and our own assumptions
• 1:30:27
  about things. And let's say, what does the Bible
• 1:30:30
  actually say? What do these works actually say?
• 1:30:35
  How many Weisman were there? Oh, three. Is that
• 1:30:39
  what it actually says? Right. Where did that
• 1:30:41
  come from? Right. And I think that's the question.
• 1:30:44
  And these other writings can help connect dots.
• 1:30:47
  Yeah. And I think that's the important thing,
• 1:30:50
  because the Bible's there. The Bible has what
• 1:30:52
  it needs. But there are things that it assumes
• 1:30:55
  we know. Yes. And writings like the Book of Enoch
• 1:30:58
  can help connect some of those dots for us to
• 1:31:01
  be like, oh, OK, now I see the through line.
• 1:31:03
  Yeah. And if you think it's weird, and it is
• 1:31:07
  weird, There's some weird stuff in there. But
• 1:31:09
  if you think that's enough to throw it away,
• 1:31:12
  we'll have 66 other books for you to read. And
• 1:31:18
  so, I'd say jumping all the way back to the beginning
• 1:31:20
  though, your question that we started with. Was
• 1:31:23
  the Book of Enoch written by demons? And we'll
• 1:31:26
  get back to that. In episode three. Come back,
• 1:31:31
  episode three, and we'll get to why I even asked
• 1:31:34
  that question like that in the first place because
• 1:31:37
  All we talked about was what the book of Enoch
• 1:31:39
  is. What does that have to do with demons? Find
• 1:31:44
  out. We'll see you then. Or you'll see us then.