Latest / From the Coach's Mouth / Episode 34: Nick French

Transcript

Episode 34: Nick French · From the Coach's Mouth

0:00
The technology that's available now is so I wish I had it, you
0:04
know, I might have been able to learn a rise ball a whole lot
0:07
faster knowing, Oh yeah, it's spinning in the right direction
0:10
versus now I got to wait until I go out to a game and I'm
0:13
comfortable enough to throw it and find out oh Nope, that
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didn't that doesn't spin with backspin because I have to ask
0:19
the umpire for a new ball whether.
0:20
You live northeast, West or South?
0:22
The best fast pitch info comes from the coach's mouth.
0:41
Welcome to the From the Coaches Mount podcast with your hosts
0:46
Jay Bolden and Ken Krause. Hello everyone and welcome to
1:04
the From the Coaches Mouth podcast.
1:06
This is Ken Kraus here with you as always with my good buddy Jay
1:10
Bolden. Jay, how you doing today?
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Doing pretty good, Ken. It's a beautiful fall weather
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finally, which is awesome. I felt like we've had our just
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got over our third summer here in the Midwest and it actually
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feels super nice. Kids got a game tonight, so it's
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going to be a little chilly, but it'll be fun and and all that
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good stuff. How about yourself?
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How you been? I've been doing well, getting
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used to the time zone again, just getting back into the swing
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of doing lessons, but you know, off to a good start.
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I moved inside now so you know, just getting acclimated to being
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back indoors again, but probably you don't usually have.
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No, no, I like the, I like the indoors all the time, so never
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have to worry about the elements.
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So yeah, it's good. I'm excited though.
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Our fall ball just kind of wrapped up last week and had a
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great fall. Now looking forward to taking a
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little break and then getting into some individual time with
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some of the pitchers and catchers.
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So excited for excited for this upcoming season.
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We've got a lot of talent, you know, really excited to get
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going with these kids and see what kind of improvements we can
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do here in this in the offseason here.
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All righty. Well, that sounds good.
2:12
Just real quick, since as we're recording this, it's the
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beginning of October. You.
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You're a Halloween guy. Oh absolutely yes.
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But can I have to pick, you know, I used to do all the
2:24
getting dressed up stuff, but now it's been the inflatables.
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Like whatever it is, I got to be in an inflatable.
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And that has to go with the weather because some Halloweens
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as we know are 90°. Other Halloweens we're in the
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middle of a Blizzard to get in the inflatable ones.
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I'm out of those elements every time and it's a it's a good
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time. So last year I was a minion.
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The year before that I was Oogly Boogly, and the year before that
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I was a Stay Puft marshmallow Man.
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So all blow UPS. So really, really excited with
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my kids get into it. Still, the wife decorates.
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It's a great time of year. How about yourself?
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Yeah, I'm a Halloween guy myself.
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I've got a big display out in front of the house, a whole
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graveyard thing, some of which I made myself and some of which
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I've just bought at a Spirit Halloween and other stores along
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the way. You know, definitely look
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forward to it. It's a big production on the
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actual day of Halloween, with fog machines and a professional
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sound system going and all kinds of crazy things, all for the 12
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kids that show up at my house. We're usually pretty packed but
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it has been going down over the years as the kids get older so.
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Yeah, I'm I'm. But I'm thinking maybe we're
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going to try giving out full size candy bars this year, see
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if the word gets out, maybe we get a few more.
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There you go, There you go. But you didn't tell us.
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What are you going to be for Halloween?
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Oh, and my usual goal is basically basically Beetlejuice
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in various forms. Awesome, awesome, awesome.
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Well, enough about us. Do you want to give a little
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intro or information about this awesome guest that we have today
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with us? I sure do.
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So we're really delighted to be able to speak with today's guest
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because he's had an amazing coaching career that started
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when he was just 14 years old. Our thanks once again to Rick
4:03
Pauly for introducing us to him. Our guest had nearly 20 years of
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college experience coaching in a variety of conferences including
4:11
the SECCAA, Patriot Conference USA, PAC 12 and now the Big 10.
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This time includes five seasons as head coach at the Division
4:22
One level at Bryant University, as well as coaching in the NCAA
4:26
Tournament with the University of Memphis and the University of
4:30
Arizona. As a volunteer assistant at
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Arizona, he was part of the staff that led the team to a
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runner up finish at the Women's College World Series the last
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time the school appeared in the championship game.
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Other stops along his coaching journey include two stints as an
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assistant coach at Tosin, plus coaching at Holy Cross Simmons
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College in Massachusetts and Piedmont College, now Piedmont
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University in Georgia. He also recently served as
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Director of Player Development at the University of Georgia.
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Our guest is primarily known for his expertise as a pitching
5:03
coach, where he focused on helping pitch design and
5:07
strategy for the Staffs at various schools.
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In addition to his current position as an assistant at
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Rutgers University, our guest has also been named as one of
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the coaches for the USA Softball Men's 23 and Under National
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Team. So it'll be interesting to get
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his perspective on coaching men's fast pitch players versus
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women's fast pitch athletes. Ladies and gentlemen, please
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give a warm From the Coach's Mouth podcast.
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Welcome to Mr. Nick French. Welcome, Nick.
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Thank you for having me. I'm excited to get to talk to
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you guys for a little bit. Yeah, awesome.
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We appreciate your time today. So we're just, we're going to
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jump right in because you've been, you've had a, a very
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extensive coaching background and and we, I want to dig into
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that along with the analytics and the, and the data that you
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do too. So just give us a little bit of
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how you first got into coaching softball and like what inspired
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you to make this a career? You started so young at 14.
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Where? Where did that come from?
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So my dad started coaching in the late 70s when nobody wore a
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helmet, girls still used wood bats and the slap was considered
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a bun attempt. And so he started coaching my
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aunts in I think 1977 and by 1982, which was the year I was
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born, he was coaching in college.
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So I guess I started by being babysat by the kids on the team
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at the end of the bench when my mom had to go to work and dad
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had a game. So I literally grew up in
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dugouts my entire life. And so, you know, my family
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vacations were travel ball nationals back when you had to
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qualify and there weren't 14 different choices for you to go
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to. You went wherever the ASA or one
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of the there were a couple other organizations, but wherever they
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put it in the middle of nowhere. So, so that's really how I got
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started, was just always being around the game and running
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around with a bat in my hand and asking somebody to pitch to me.
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And then it turned out I couldn't really hit and I was a
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better basketball player. I actually played basketball in
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college, so for a little bit and and then kind of came back to
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softball. I started coaching with him when
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I was 14 or 15 and by 16 I was the pitching coach of the high
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school varsity team. So it was interesting to be
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coaching the pitchers in a game on Thursday and back in math
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class with them on Friday. Yeah, yeah.
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How did that go? I mean, was it something?
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Did they listen to you? Yeah, I mean, they they did
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because I mean, it's it's like any other job.
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You kind of have to prove, you know, what you're doing and that
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you I think you always have to prove that, you know, you care
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about them. But obviously in that case, like
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they were my friends. This is my high school team, you
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know, like we were representing our town.
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And so, you know, you just kind of have to prove, you know, what
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you're doing. And, you know, there wasn't a
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pitching coach at the time because my dad had given it up
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for a little bit and was focused on some other things.
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And so I got kind of roped into coming back and helping out.
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And I guess I caught the bug. And, you know, to be honest, I
8:11
never thought you could make a living at it because, you know,
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in the Northeast in the 80s, you coached in college for $5000 and
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tried to go do other work and, you know, recruited when you
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could usually, you know, during travel, you know, by coaching a
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travel ball team. One of the rival, one of the
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rival coaches that my dad coached against in the 80s in
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his conference with Brian Kelly. Brian Kelly got the job because
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he was a grad assistant on the football team.
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And they just needed somebody to coach softball.
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So they said here, go figure it out.
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And so Brian called my dad like that.
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That's that's where the level of importance that athletic
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departments put on women's sports in the 80s and even into
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the early 90s, like full time jobs were rare.
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And so, you know, I never really thought you could make a living
9:01
at it. And so I went to college doing
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other things and I was going to be a high school coach and a
9:08
basketball, you know, high school teacher and a basketball
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coach and a softball coach and go from there.
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And I got a college opportunity in 2008 and mainly because they
9:18
needed an Sid and I could do that with my journalism degree.
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And for 18 straight years after that, someone is called and
9:27
asked if I wanted to coach again.
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So here I am. Well, that's cool.
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It's funny how sometimes, you know, just different things can
9:33
come up. You know how our pathways kind
9:36
of lay themselves out. Maybe not be the original plan
9:38
you had, but it's still something that takes you where
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you should end up being at some point.
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It was definitely a plan I would have liked to have.
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I was just realistic that I didn't think I could ever make a
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living at it. Still not really sure you can.
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Hey Nick, I want to ask you, how did you get into the pitching
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side of things? Was was your dad a pitcher or
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my? Dad, coach, pitcher.
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Well, my dad had to learn pitching first, but then
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ultimately he played a little men's fast pitch.
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He was just OK. But he was sort of where we grew
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up. He was the pitching coach for a
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long time in the 80s and 90s. So he had a lot of lessons and
10:12
things like that. So, you know, I learned how to
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do it by catching a lot of lessons.
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You know, I was 1011 years old and catching the ball, getting
10:20
balls off the shins and him telling me, son, it hurts a
10:23
whole lot less if you use the glove.
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I don't want to hear no. Equipment, huh?
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Oh God, no, I didn't squat. So yeah.
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So, you know, I mean, I'd love to say he taught me to pitch,
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but just like any kid like I, I never thought he was really very
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smart. So.
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Like I didn't listen to him. I'd pitch back when I was
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catching lessons in high school. I'd start pitching it back.
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And you know, if I throw it over a kids head, over the pitcher's
10:54
head, you'd be like, it's not your lesson.
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But you kind of picked it up along the way, maybe by osmosis,
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you weren't necessarily listening actively, but.
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Well, I was listening actively, but I mean, you know, you if, if
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you're just listening, it's hard.
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I mean, you know, I mean, how I taught myself to pitch.
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I threw it a wall all the time by myself, you know, a joke.
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The, The Dirty secret was I was living.
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I, I, I was living in an apartment that I didn't love my
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roommate at the time. And so I just need to get out of
11:27
the house a couple times, a couple hours at a time, 345 days
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a week. So I just when the weather
11:32
turned, I just started going up to the park and throwing at the
11:34
wall and till I could till I had to go back and deal with what I
11:38
was dealing with. So you've been doing this a long
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time. What are some of the changes
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you've seen in the in the game since you started coaching?
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I think the biggest one is the specialization of all positions.
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You know, like I said, you know, my dad was given lessons for
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$20.00 an hour in the 90s. Like, that wasn't unheard of for
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pitchers because just nobody knew how to pitch.
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But nobody, I mean, he was doing $20.00 an hour until about 2014
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or 15 when I made him raise his rate slightly.
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But in any event, there wasn't hitting lessons, there wasn't
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fielding lessons. You know, now hitting's caught
12:17
up to pitching a lot. There's a whole lot more offense
12:20
in the game. I think it's a good thing.
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Even though I'm, you know, I have a pitching background.
12:25
I also love hitting. I've coached hitters at the
12:27
college level too. You know, I think that and
12:31
defenses are a lot better. Everyone can play catch at a
12:34
high level now, moving their feet, all these things that
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just, you know, 253035 years ago they weren't as good at, you
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know, it was pitching dominant. And now I don't think it is.
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Like, obviously if you are really good in a circle, you're
12:50
still going to be dominant. But we used to joke in my
12:53
newspaper days that, you know, the running gag was always, you
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know, the reporter almost always showed up and missed the first
13:00
inning and would miss the only run of the game.
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You know, you get stuck in traffic or you're trying to find
13:05
a high school field when you're a reporter and you don't know,
13:08
rarely do they play at the high school.
13:09
So you're trying to find a municipal park or something, and
13:12
you get there and you're like, oh, it's the top of the second.
13:15
OK, I didn't miss much. Anybody score?
13:17
Yeah, it's one to nothing. And then nothing happens for the
13:19
next 6 innings. And and, you know, that was the
13:22
running gag at all levels of high school softball back then
13:25
was, you know, first one to score wins.
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And now it's definitely not the case.
13:30
So, Nick, I want to ask you, I'm sorry, Ken, I was just, I was.
13:33
Just going to say that I even remember that watching college
13:36
games on TV when they would, you know, record them and then they
13:40
play them back later and you'd be over there and be, you know,
13:43
so you get to the bottom of the fourth inning and then they
13:46
would say, all right, we're going to jump ahead.
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It's now the top of the sixth because basically it was OK,
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Nothing happened. Yep.
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You didn't miss anything. Moving on.
13:55
Yeah. So, Nick, I was going to ask you
13:58
a question. How do you feel about this
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specialization, especially at at younger ages?
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I, I think, you know, as, as a dad, I've got a, you know, I've
14:06
got a basically a 1110 year old, 1011 year old who's, you know,
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we're just coming out of wreck ball and, and I don't, you know,
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she's good at a position, but I don't want to pigeonhole her
14:16
into that position. How do you feel about that?
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I don't want to, you know, at 9, you do we know who really is the
14:21
best shortstop or second baseman or outfielder on the team when
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it's all said and done? How do you How do you feel
14:26
about? Not necessarily, but I think
14:28
it's good that there is the coaching available to go take
14:31
fielding lessons, hitting lessons and pitching lessons.
14:34
You know, I think too often before it was, well, you're
14:38
really tall at 9:00, so we're going to teach you how to pitch.
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And, you know, specialization is kind of a dirty word that's
14:45
thrown around. And it's not like, you know, I
14:47
still think kids should go play soccer and some basketball and
14:50
volleyball and all those other things.
14:52
But you know, it's not a bad idea to learn position specific
14:56
stuff. And, you know, kids do tend not
14:59
to learn well in groups nowadays.
15:02
So, you know, just going to practice and being like, we're
15:04
going to teach, we're going to do a hitting practice with 15
15:08
kids on your rec team. You're probably not
15:10
accomplishing a whole lot because even the kids who are
15:13
focused are going to get distracted by the other kids and
15:17
you know, the ones who really want to do it.
15:19
So I, I think if you can afford it doing some of those, I don't
15:23
think you need to go, you know, spend $100.00 an hour.
15:27
But you know, like we do some stuff here on weeknights and I
15:30
think we charge 60 an hour. It's not a big deal.
15:32
And we get a lot of younger kids and you know, the more you can
15:35
teach fundamentals at that age. I I think is real important.
15:38
A joke when it comes to throwing and catching is that when I
15:42
teach coaches clinics with this, I describe it as long division.
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OK, when when your kid brings home long division the first
15:50
time and says, Dad, I have to show my work.
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And you haven't had to show your work in long division since you
15:55
were in 4th grade because you've just been using a calculator.
15:59
Well, you don't remember all the steps to do it correctly as
16:03
well, right? Well, that's honestly throwing
16:05
and catching. Someone taught you how to do
16:07
that at 10. And if you don't know and now
16:11
you have to show your work to your 10 year old, you don't
16:14
really remember. It's like it's just just, it's
16:16
out there just like this. Just squeeze the glove Like
16:19
there's a bunch of processes, a bunch of steps in that process
16:22
that gets lost if you haven't been doing it every day.
16:27
And then you're going to naturally get frustrated because
16:30
your kid doesn't understand what you're trying to explain.
16:32
When in reality you've probably missed the important steps like
16:36
left, right catch with your feet, you know, or right, left
16:38
catch, depending on your left or righty, you know, moving your
16:40
feet to come to the ball, things like that.
16:43
You're just used to, hey, you catch it, take it out of your
16:45
glove. Well, if you take it out of your
16:47
glove on this side of you, on the left side of your shoulder,
16:50
it's a long way to go. You're going to put yourself in
16:52
bad positions like there are specific steps to get it correct
16:56
that your average parent doesn't really remember.
16:59
Very true, very true. So you, you talked about your
17:03
dad a lot. Was one of your biggest
17:05
influences growing up? Were there any other people on
17:09
your journey here that you've been on that have been, you
17:11
know, people that you've looked up to or the person maybe you
17:14
lean on when you, you know, you need some help as well too?
17:16
Do you have anybody that's kind of helped you out through the
17:18
years besides just besides your dad?
17:20
I think it's kind of split, Yeah.
17:22
They're playing mentors. I mean, you know, I've gotten to
17:24
work for 3000 win coaches or close to 1000 win coaches.
17:28
And you know, Mike, Andrea, Lou Harris, Champur, Lisa Costello,
17:33
you know, Lisa's close to, I think she's at 8 or 908 or 900
17:37
now. You know, Teresa Wilson won
17:39
nearly 1000 games as a as a head coach.
17:41
She was on staff there. There there's been a lot of
17:44
coaches that I've learned a lot from, but I've also learned from
17:48
others that nobody's ever heard of.
17:49
You know, and I think nowadays it's the people in my inner
17:55
circle that I talk to regularly. They're not necessarily coaching
17:59
mentors. They're just peers now.
18:00
You know, I mean, I'm, I talked to Josh Johnson, Carlton Salters
18:04
is someone in the hitting side I talk to three or four times a
18:06
week. You know, he challenges me to
18:09
think differently and and you know, stuff like that.
18:12
Anthony Aresco out at UNLV. You know, there's, there's a lot
18:16
of people that I think those are not necessarily mentors, but
18:20
they're people that I talk to more regularly now about how
18:23
we're doing things now. But there's certainly been
18:25
plenty of people I've worked for.
18:28
I've probably I've learned from every person I've ever worked
18:30
for do. You do you think the nature of
18:32
what you talk about has changed since, you know, since the early
18:36
age of your coaching? So, and how has it been?
18:39
It depends on who I'm talking to, but you know, at the same
18:42
time, we get a lot more technical and a lot deeper into
18:45
some, some thoughts and ideas and just coaching in general Now
18:51
it, it is definitely a lot different now coaching kids than
18:55
it was even 10 years ago and especially 15 years ago.
19:00
You know, when I was at Holy Cross, the smart kids always
19:02
needed to know the why, like the why and the how.
19:06
It used to be the high academic kids, like their brains just
19:08
work a little differently. They need to know why they're
19:11
doing this and step by step and, and explain it in a smart way.
19:15
Well, now kids have these phones in their hand and they're all
19:19
like that. You know, if, if they think
19:22
you're full of crap, they can probably find it pretty easily
19:27
somewhere else. And so, you know, you, you have
19:32
to have a real understanding and knowledge of what you're doing
19:35
and what you're explaining or be willing to admit.
19:37
I think this is the case, but it might not be.
19:40
We've certainly change the nature of what we talked about
19:44
in terms of how the body moves. You know, it used to be, yeah,
19:47
you, you, you did AB and C no matter what.
19:51
And probably throwing and catching is the only thing
19:53
that's still the same for every kid.
19:55
And even that's not entirely the case because some kids want to
19:58
get, are comfortable getting lower.
19:59
Some kids have to stay more upright.
20:01
Yeah, that brings me. I want to ask you a quick
20:03
question with that. So what is what is 1 area that
20:06
you think young players tend to overlook when they're trying to
20:08
trying to level up their game? You know, you talked about, you
20:11
know, doing some, some things differently for each kid and the
20:14
how and the why. Like is there a certain area
20:16
that you think players overlook? I mean, we talked a little bit
20:19
about throwing overhand. I mean, even if you want to put
20:21
that in the in the pitching perspective or whatever hat you
20:24
want to throw on, on that one. I would go with, in general,
20:26
moving their feet. You know, if you ever watch big
20:30
leaguers play catch, they move their feet.
20:32
Their feet are always under them.
20:34
They're like cats. You know, I love going to a big
20:36
league game or even a high level college baseball game or minor
20:39
league game or whatever, and you know, their feet are always
20:42
underneath them with every throw they make.
20:44
And you know, the bigger thing is is how they control their
20:48
head. I think whether you're throwing,
20:50
hitting or catching, how you control your head probably
20:53
dictates more than anything else how quote UN quote softball
20:58
athletic you are. If you can control your head
21:00
movements, you're going to be able to control your body
21:02
movements. And it's sort of a chicken or
21:05
egg thing. Like is it your feet that affect
21:07
that or is it your head? Depends on how you feel.
21:10
I think. You know, if you always put your
21:12
feet and your body in good positions, your head will stay
21:15
in a good position. But if you don't know how to put
21:18
your body in good positions, then your head is going to
21:21
balance itself left or right because your body self-defense
21:25
mechanism of don't fall will always supersede whatever task
21:29
you're trying to do in that moment.
21:30
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's great.
21:33
I I didn't know. So how do you, how do you
21:35
balance kind of the, your, the traditional coaching methods
21:40
with some of the new modern technology and, and data?
21:43
I know we're going to talk to talk to you a lot about data
21:45
here and, and analytics. But so how do you, how do you
21:48
balance those two things? Because I see a lot of people
21:51
that are like, you know, and maybe this is wrong, but you
21:54
know, people are always talking about ball flight data, ball
21:56
flight data, which I think is fully valuable.
21:59
But I also have kids that, you know, can get the job done and
22:02
their ball flight data isn't the greatest, right?
22:05
So, you know, it's, I think you know, how do you, how do you
22:08
combine both of those things, Nick?
22:11
I think you're always combining both.
22:13
OK, At the end of the day, you've got to throw it, You got
22:16
to throw it over the plate, and your goal is to try to miss
22:18
bats. You know, you can have really
22:20
good ball flight data but not throw enough strikes.
22:24
And ultimately that doesn't matter.
22:27
You can have bad ball flight data and throw enough strikes,
22:30
but at some point you're, you're gonna level out to a certain
22:36
extent. Like you know, whether that's,
22:39
hey, you're good enough to throw 3 innings, but you're not good
22:42
enough to throw 7, or you know, you can't pitch at this level
22:48
because you know, your ball does, whether it's fastball,
22:52
curveball, rise ball, drop ball, your ball does the same thing.
22:56
OK, so you have to balance both of, you know, one, I need to
23:02
know what your ball flight data is.
23:03
And then ultimately it's my job to take the traditional methods
23:07
and say, OK, here's what your ball does.
23:10
How do we get people out with it?
23:13
If that makes sense. Like I'm not.
23:15
A. I'm not a Rapsodo everyday
23:17
person or pitch log. I've been using the pitch logic
23:20
ball and I'm still not even like everyday.
23:22
It's just a check in. You know, at this point, you
23:26
know, I kind of know, you know, your ball fight data is a little
23:29
bit like your fingerprint. You can make it a little bit
23:32
better, but you know, it is hard to do that at the college level
23:36
because we don't. The hard part of with fall ball
23:40
is we never really get a chance to just be like, you're not
23:43
facing hitters for a while. And you know, when you try to
23:47
scramble their brains with new pitch ideas, sometimes that can
23:51
happen. You know, you've got to take a
23:53
step back before you take 2 steps forward.
23:55
And we don't ever really have the time until you get into
23:58
individuals to really be able to do that.
24:00
So I mean, I, I think just balancing the 2 is, you know,
24:04
you go out, you throw your bullpen and you know, you try to
24:07
piece together what their ball does and how can you make it
24:11
better. And at the end of the day, I
24:13
always say the hitter tells you what works and what doesn't.
24:16
True, Very true. So do you ever wonder sometimes
24:19
if we're getting too data-driven to the point where they, you
24:23
know, if people get too focused on the numbers and don't take
24:26
the human aspect into account? Now, if anything in softball, I
24:30
think it's still the opposite. We're still looked at is, oh, it
24:34
the human element matters more. I mean, yeah, it probably does
24:38
to a certain extent. But like, take a look around
24:42
Major League Baseball right now. You know, if you don't throw
24:45
100, you know, it's hard to win at this point in the season if
24:50
you're not throwing a lot of gas.
24:52
You know, if you're not, if your ball is not doing a bunch of
24:54
different things, like, you know, you can't just really go
24:58
out there with guts and guile anymore.
24:59
You know, Clayton Kershaw found that out the other night coming
25:02
out of the bullpen. Like, it's not like he didn't
25:04
have heart and guts and guile or any of those things.
25:06
But like, the stuff's not there anymore.
25:09
You know, when it's not there, you're not getting people out.
25:13
I don't think it's used enough. I think a lot of people just,
25:17
it's a it's a tool to them and and it validates what they want
25:20
to hear. I think more people fear it
25:22
because they don't like being told either as a coach they're
25:25
not good enough or they're, you know, it, it can be humbling to
25:29
be like, oh, I I can teach a Rice ball in three months and
25:32
then you keep putting them on a pitch, logic or Arapsido, and
25:35
that ball still tumbles at 6:00 down.
25:37
Yeah. Just because you throw it up
25:38
there doesn't mean you're actually teaching them a Rice
25:40
ball. And I think at the younger
25:42
levels, we really don't do it enough.
25:43
And it's most, you know, because we're not spending the time to
25:47
teach them how does the ball, how to spin the ball in the
25:50
correct direction. That's a that's a great
25:52
statement. I want to, I want to, I got to
25:54
interject, ask you a question, Nick, just because you said that
25:56
and that's that's I couldn't believe that even more so about
26:00
what you said. So what, what are your thoughts
26:03
on bullet spin? Because I've been to some
26:05
conventions and I've had people that have done presentations
26:08
that say, you know, bullet spin is OK.
26:12
And again, I think it, I think it, you know, it's going to
26:15
happen. But you know, what are your,
26:17
what are your takes on that? Because I'm always trying to get
26:20
my kids to spin the ball with a really good axis.
26:23
And that's the thing. Where where are you at with the
26:27
with the bullet spin compared to, you know, more of a pure
26:29
spin. Well, I would prefer more pure
26:32
spin, but you know, that goes back to the human element here.
26:35
I if a kid's throwing 67 and commands it really well and it's
26:41
bullet spin, cool, good enough cool we and we can change
26:49
speeds. Sure, that'll work 'cause it's
26:51
like ultimately, you know, the harder you throw it, the less
26:55
important ball movement is to a certain extent.
26:58
Like you know, and there is a point too of like if you throw
27:02
it 67, the ball doesn't have time to move that much.
27:07
OK, Like, you know, you see baseball 14 fastballs at you
27:12
know, plus 18 to plus 22. Well, that 17 feet of difference
27:16
is what allows for that. You know, I saw a kid the other
27:19
day with a on their pitch logic, which is pretty close to Rapsido
27:23
it it and I haven't quite figured out what the exact
27:26
difference is, but it's pretty darn close with like a + 11 on a
27:29
rash ball. Well, it was really like an off
27:31
speed rise at 52. OK, so that ball took longer to
27:36
travel to get to home plate. So because it's high spin, it
27:40
picked up two or three, you know, four or five more inches
27:43
than what a kid throwing. You know, I would venture to
27:46
guess if she threw that at 65, it's probably only a + 6 because
27:51
it's just not doesn't have the time to get there.
27:55
It doesn't have the time to to move that far.
27:59
But in terms of like bullet spin, sure, it works if you
28:02
throw hard enough and you can command like, like you said
28:05
before, Ken, like almost anything can work if you do
28:07
that. But when you come to me at 57
28:11
with bullet spin and not a whole lot of movement and three of
28:14
your pitches do the exact same thing and, you know, like,
28:17
you're probably not. You're probably gonna get
28:19
pummeled. It's just what's gonna happen,
28:21
you know, And that's sort of the area where people don't like to
28:24
hear that. Yeah, well, it can definitely be
28:27
humbling when you think you're doing well with a pitch and then
28:30
you put it on something like pitch logic and you see, oh, it
28:33
wasn't quite the spin we were hoping for.
28:36
Although, you know, when I run into that, you know what I'll
28:38
usually try to tell the pitchers, say, look at how
28:40
effective you've been so far doing what you're doing.
28:43
If we can fix this, if we can get a better spin access, if we
28:46
can do this or that with it, it's just going to make it that
28:49
much better. Right.
28:51
That's, that's ultimately what you have to tell them.
28:54
But you know, again, there's a ceiling for everybody in every
28:58
sport. And that's probably the hardest
29:01
thing for people to realize and accept.
29:03
Like I, I know I joke all the time.
29:05
Like my ceiling in basketball was my freshman year of college.
29:08
I walked on a campus as a six foot, 370 LB shooter and
29:12
realized I was too slow to cover guards and I was too small to
29:16
cover forwards. And, you know, the the dude who
29:20
played my position broke the all time scoring, scoring record in
29:23
the conference who's a little bit better shooter than me.
29:26
And even though I was pretty good, there was really only room
29:28
for one guy on the floor who couldn't guard the logo at
29:31
center court. Robbie did a little bit better
29:33
than me. Yeah.
29:34
You know, at 19, I refused to acknowledge that I was, I blamed
29:39
the coach and all the same stuff that everybody does.
29:42
And then you realize later, like, no, I I was not ready to
29:44
play. I was good enough to be a part
29:47
of things, but I I wasn't I wasn't ready to play.
29:49
And had I kept going with it, I probably would have been good
29:52
enough to play. I sometimes wonder if I had kept
29:55
going with it, where my career would have taken me.
29:57
Because that kid that I was just talking about is the assistant
30:00
GM of the Thunder. So yeah, one of our college team
30:05
mates before that who who graduated before we got there is
30:07
the GM of the Thunder. And so our my little college
30:10
basketball program has eleven former alums in the NBA now.
30:15
So, you know, I always when there's some, I joke all the
30:18
time, like my first love was basketball and I married
30:20
softball and I give no regrets, none of that.
30:24
But you know, I mean, you always wonder, what if I married my
30:27
first love might have been in the NBA last year.
30:31
Well, you know, and it's funny because, you know, you bring up
30:34
a good point, Nick, and this is something again, I think that
30:37
Jay and I both try to tell our kids is the value of learning a
30:40
secondary position. So, you know, you may be a great
30:43
shortstop on your travel ball team.
30:45
Let's say, all right, you're you, you've been the shortstop
30:48
there, but you get to your high school and there's somebody
30:51
there that's the best shortstop that ever played there and she's
30:54
a year ahead of you. Well, you got either three years
30:57
on the bench or you better find another place to play.
31:00
Same thing in college. You might have been the the star
31:03
shortstop on your high school team, but so was everybody else
31:06
when you get to college. So, you know, only one of those
31:09
is going to be on the field and everybody else either better
31:12
find another position or they're going to be on the bench.
31:15
Exactly. I need you to become a better
31:17
defender and I I didn't do that in enough time.
31:21
I still can't defend. It's OK, I'll score 20 and give
31:27
up 19 and we'll win. So Nick, what what's your take
31:32
on on some of the tech based tools like the weighted balls,
31:35
velocity focus training, Is that something that you guys are
31:38
doing there at Rutgers? Are you using a lot of plyo
31:40
balls? And plyo balls, I think they fix
31:44
a lot of flaws a lot quicker than almost anything else
31:49
because you know a ball is evenly just the weight is evenly
31:53
distributed. And so when you have mechanical
31:56
flaws and almost every kid does at this point, like there's,
31:59
there's so many pitching coaches and they just, they don't, not
32:03
enough is focused on how your body wants to move, how to load
32:06
correctly. And so ultimately you throw
32:10
10,000 pitches and you learn to create compensations.
32:13
I, I can throw it anywhere I want anytime, but my
32:18
compensations have sapped velocity for me and put a
32:23
ceiling on it. Same thing when when we talk
32:25
about a ceiling, like, you know, I don't do the things that I
32:28
teach because mainly I figured out that I've got bad habits and
32:34
at 42 I've can overcome them. But there's a reason why I don't
32:38
throw much more than 63 or 64 anymore, OK.
32:42
And why I didn't get to 75 and is as a pitcher myself when I
32:47
played, you know, I, I, I hit my ceiling and I figured out like,
32:51
I have to throw strikes. I have to change speeds and I
32:53
have to command better than anybody else.
32:55
That's the only way I get hitters out when I play.
32:58
And so I wish I'd had plyo balls years ago.
33:02
I probably would have been able to, to fix a lot of those, that
33:05
stuff because the way the weight shifts in those things really
33:09
puts your body in bad positions quickly.
33:13
Even heavy balls, I like using heavy balls and light balls and
33:15
things like that. But when the weight is evenly
33:17
balanced, you can put your body in bad positions and create a
33:22
compensation to still be able to throw strikes.
33:24
It's really hard to do that when the weight of the plyo ball is
33:27
shifting constantly with whatever position you're putting
33:30
your body in. So I find those to be extremely
33:34
helpful. How heavy of a ball would you
33:36
use for a softball pitcher and and at what effort levels?
33:41
I think the highest we go is 12 ounces at, you know, we start at
33:46
50 and maybe get to 75 in terms of effort level, percent wise.
33:52
Good luck trying to get kids to figure out what their 75 is or
33:55
even what their fifty is. They're usually smart enough to
33:59
figure out the 50 is like the first six to 10 throws to just
34:03
sort of get the arm moving in a circle.
34:05
And then the 75 tends to bleed into 80 or 90.
34:10
But you know, it is what it is. So, Nick, I want to, I want to
34:15
jump forward a little bit here and how did you first get
34:20
connected with the USA Men's Fast Pitch 23 and under team?
34:24
How did that come about for you? I kind of cheated the guy.
34:27
The head coach has been my catcher for off and on for the
34:29
last 15 years. So some of it was pure dumb luck
34:33
of the timing of when their tournament was last month in
34:36
Argentina. It was a hard time for a lot of
34:38
college. You know, a couple of the other
34:40
guys who've been in the program who've thrown batting practice
34:42
for him coaching college and they had a hard time getting the
34:47
two people that that they do have used regularly couldn't get
34:51
off. And so Tony Aresco, the head
34:53
coach and I, you know, I, we're very, very close.
34:56
He called me and was like, if you think you can get the time
34:59
off, I, you know, I'd love to have you.
35:02
I give all the credit to coach Butler at Rutgers.
35:04
You know, I basically start a new job and said, hey, I'm going
35:07
to come for a week and then I'm going to leave for two weeks.
35:10
Is that OK? And she was just like, Oh yeah,
35:13
no, that's an awesome opportunity, you should go do
35:15
that. So it was a really cool
35:17
experience. You know, the hard part with
35:19
with the men's game is you don't really get to coach them
35:23
because, you know, we had two practices and you know, 1 was a
35:28
scrimmage, 1 was a one was a little practice and then we were
35:30
off playing. You know, there just isn't the
35:35
the money essentially and it's through not anybody's fault.
35:38
It's just expensive to house 15 kids and run them through two or
35:44
three weeks of practice and the end of the day.
35:47
Like it's really no preparing for that level of velocity that
35:51
we saw. Even we talked about it like 7
35:54
of the 8 countries in Argentina for the Pan Am games had an arm
35:59
throwing 78 or better. We weren't, we, we didn't expect
36:02
that. Like we, we thought it'd be like
36:04
7075 for the most part. And there was a couple that were
36:07
going to touch 80. Everybody had somebody throwing
36:10
rockets. I mean, we, we came out the
36:11
first, the first game and the dude from the Dominicans
36:14
throwing 85 to 87 drops and we're just like.
36:17
Whoa. OK, that's different.
36:19
You know, we knew our pitcher could do that because, you know,
36:24
Marco Diaz is the best arm in the world right now.
36:27
He's won the last two ISC World Championships and you know, he
36:30
could do that, but we didn't expect everybody else to be able
36:33
to do that. And that probably made it, you
36:36
know, made Marco a little more human too.
36:39
He he did great. And you know, ultimately the
36:42
tournament just came. It was old school fast pitch
36:44
from the 90's. The first mistake, that's who
36:47
won. You know, we beat the Dominican
36:49
because we did the old get him on, get him over and he threw a
36:53
wild pitch and we got and we scored, you know, we lose to
36:55
Mexico because we made a mistake.
36:57
You know, it just that was that was the way those games went
37:01
was, you know, you, you got one opportunity and you better not
37:04
screwed up. So was this your first time
37:07
coaching men? At least you.
37:09
Know fast pitch, yeah, I like, I mean, I've, I've coached younger
37:13
kids coming along since I've started playing, you know, I
37:16
mean, again, you know, coaching's probably the wrong
37:19
word. It's more of just mentoring, you
37:21
know, hey, I've been through it. This is what I've seen because
37:24
again, there's no real practice. There's not, you know, I mean,
37:27
part of why I probably didn't develop as much as much is
37:30
because I just had to kind of figure a lot of it out on my
37:32
own. And because you don't have
37:34
pitching lessons and things like that to go to you, you go and
37:37
you throw to a wall. And, you know, I still remember
37:41
early in my career when I'd started trying to work on stuff
37:43
during the league and one of my catchers throwing the ball back
37:46
and being like, this isn't practice.
37:48
It's 95° and I'm pouring sweat out here.
37:50
I'm not, I'm, I'm not chasing your wild pitches while you're
37:52
trying to figure out a drop ball.
37:54
And so, you know, that that was kind of the lesson of, OK, I
37:58
guess I have to go figure out how to do this on my own.
38:00
And, you know, when you don't have ball flight and things, you
38:02
know, again, you know, the technology that's available now
38:06
is so I wish I had it, you know, I might have been able to learn
38:11
a rise ball a whole lot faster knowing, Oh yeah, it's spinning
38:14
in the right direction versus now I got to wait until I go out
38:17
to a game and I'm comfortable enough to throw it and find out,
38:20
oh, Nope, that didn't that doesn't spin my backspin because
38:23
I have to ask the umpire for a new ball.
38:27
That one just got hit to to, you know, 400 feet.
38:31
So, you know, you sit there and practice like I got a rice ball
38:33
now it's like, no, I just threw a fastball high.
38:35
Took a while to get that. So I've always tried to help
38:39
younger kids who are playing. the US experience is kind of no
38:44
different. Is there a difference to you
38:47
between coaching the men and coaching females?
38:50
I would have thought that, but honestly now, no, I don't think
38:56
there is. I'm going to be the old man
38:59
yelling at clouds right now, but I find this.
39:01
It was interesting for that two weeks was this generation.
39:06
I'm used to the girls and you know, I thought the guys were,
39:10
you know, sort of the same way of like you strike out two
39:13
times. You go kind of to your phone.
39:15
You find your own your own echo chamber feeling bad for yourself
39:20
that like you know it was interesting that I I expected a
39:26
little bit more F that guy. I'm going to get him this time
39:30
and it it wasn't really that trying to be careful how I say
39:34
that I have. If you want to pause the
39:40
recording for a moment, I will give you my.
39:43
We'll do that after we're done recording here.
39:45
Yeah. But yeah, I, I guess I, you
39:48
know, I can see that. And I think every generation
39:50
thinks that the, the generation that comes after them is soft.
39:53
So it's probably not. I know I've.
39:56
Never thought that and like I don't even think this
39:58
generation's soft. I just I, you know, girls have
40:01
always been more image conscious.
40:04
You know, they don't like to look bad swinging, swinging and
40:06
missing to them, you know, it sometimes feels like the end of
40:09
the world, whereas you know a a dude playing baseball loves to
40:12
take a big hack and be like, God throw it to me again.
40:15
I didn't see as much of that and even watching.
40:18
The body language of is this isn't really necessarily my team
40:21
watching the body language of the other teams in these from
40:25
opposing countries. It was a lot of the same stuff.
40:29
And I think it's a generational thing now of, you know, you're
40:31
used to being on your phone and and going off into your own
40:34
world and finding your people to tell you it's OK.
40:39
We're just as a whole, a lot more image conscious than than
40:43
we used to be. Yeah, and it's probably easier
40:46
to find your tribe too, because you've got a much bigger
40:49
universe you can tap into. Yeah, you know, and you just,
40:53
you just want to get away sometime.
40:55
You look, it's not fun to strike out three times.
40:57
But you know, that's the the nature of of men's fast pitch at
41:02
a higher level. You're you're going to miss
41:05
that. You're going to you're going to
41:06
miss the ball a lot. So, Nick, what was it like for
41:09
you representing the United States on that international
41:12
stage? What was that like?
41:13
It was really cool. I mean, it's, you know, you, you
41:16
don't really realize it until you put that USA jersey on and
41:19
you're just like, wow, this is, this is real.
41:24
And so, you know, it's, it's, it is a special honor and, and
41:28
definitely a, a, a bucket list item that I never thought I'd
41:32
ever achieve. And you know, I was grateful for
41:35
the opportunity. From that experience that you
41:37
had, what were some of the some of the lessons that you took
41:39
away from that, like coaching, working with those pitchers that
41:42
are throwing, like you said, 85 miles an hour with you?
41:45
Want you want the the the true lesson.
41:48
Yeah. The, the, the pitching coaches
41:52
we think are really, really good because they've produced really,
41:55
really good pitchers and coaching really high level
41:57
pitching don't have to do very much it.
42:01
It's you know, I've, I've kind of said this privately and this
42:06
will get some blowback, but like I have a probably a little less
42:10
respect for the quote UN quote best pitching coaches in the
42:13
game now, because it really wasn't very hard.
42:16
When you look at Marco Diaz and he bounces the change up and you
42:19
go, Hey, just keep your eye moving a little bit more.
42:22
Keep your eye moving all the way through it, which I think was
42:24
the only thing I said to him all week on one because he bounced 2
42:26
of them and I was like, hey, you just pause in the middle of
42:29
that. Like you're trying to change
42:30
speeds automatically. Just, you know, keep your arm
42:34
moving, flips the next one in for a strike and is throwing it
42:37
in the game a little bit like that's a lesson that you spent
42:40
10 minutes on with somebody else.
42:42
He's the best in the world. You don't really need to coach
42:44
that. You just give somebody like that
42:46
a quick cue, a reminder and stay the hell out of his way that
42:51
that's really all you're trying to do there.
42:53
You know, and I mean, I give him credit and the other the you
42:57
know, Cody Gibbons, the other one who pitched really, really
42:59
well for that for us there and and is a really good young
43:01
pitcher. Like there are sponges.
43:03
They wanted to hear stuff, but there isn't a whole lot of
43:07
coaching to those kind of things.
43:08
You know, you're you're hey, be on time.
43:13
You know, I mean that there is there isn't that much to it, but
43:18
you know, you certainly can develop pitchers.
43:21
But I think we probably give outsize credit to some, a lot of
43:25
people that, you know, get handed really good data, really
43:29
good velocity, and it's like, hey, congratulations, you just
43:32
didn't screw it up. Yeah, yeah, I, I think that that
43:37
is very true is that, you know, those those 1% athletes, they're
43:42
going to find the way. You just got to stay out of
43:45
their way and give them a little bit of guidance, a little bit of
43:48
encouragement and, you know, tell them here, maybe try this.
43:53
And then did you find them when you did offer suggestions, were
43:56
they very receptive to it? Oh.
43:58
Yeah, I got, I, I joked with Marco in the beginning I was
44:00
like, I'm not here to coach you. I'm like, I'm just here to watch
44:03
and learn from you. And he's like, no, no, no, like
44:06
if you got anything. And so I said the one thing
44:08
about that and then, you know, he's threw it a few times in the
44:12
game and I don't, I don't, I mean, he doesn't throw a change
44:15
up very often. He doesn't have to.
44:16
He's throwing 878889 miles an hour.
44:20
We gave a little, I gave one or two things.
44:22
I probably coached the hitters and the younger kids a little
44:24
bit more, you know, those other kids more.
44:26
But again, like, you know, you're, you're mostly there.
44:29
I was there to throw batting practice, help offer insights.
44:32
You know, you're trying to teach the game because they are still
44:36
college kids and you know, they do some stuff.
44:38
You know, not all of them have played at the highest level yet
44:41
in ISC and men's. So you know, you're just trying
44:43
to teach the game in little situations.
44:46
You know, you're you're, you're not, I don't want to say you're
44:50
babysitting. You're not doing that, but
44:51
you're just trying to do what you can in a limited amount of
44:54
time that you have with them. So did you bring anything from
44:58
that USA coaching experience, even though it was brief, but
45:02
did you bring anything back to your everyday coaching?
45:05
Is there something that you went, I think I can incorporate
45:08
that? Definitely on the hitting side,
45:10
you're talking a lot more about timing in where you get when you
45:13
get set because, you know, I think a lot of kids across the
45:18
board, they don't really know. I know there's a pitching
45:21
podcast, but they don't really know when they're supposed to
45:23
get started in their swing. And most of them get started
45:27
real late. They don't get to their spot
45:28
fast enough, early enough because where they have to get
45:32
to to get to create some resistance.
45:35
They don't get to it before the ball gets released or they start
45:39
that in the pitcher's downswing. And you know, we, that was one
45:45
of our problems with our hitters was they were trying to get
45:48
started with all their pre pitch stuff and then trying to get
45:52
loaded as the ball is coming out as the pitcher's coming in with
45:55
her and it's downswing. Well, that ball is coming in at
45:57
80. Guess what, you're late.
46:01
I mean, I, I've, I mean, I've got a video of a picture, a
46:04
still picture of, of our best hitter from the tournament
46:08
getting a swing off against somebody in which the ball is
46:11
very clearly in the glove and his bat still is, is still in
46:15
lag position. It's like, well, like you got
46:17
started late. Like, you know, I, I think
46:21
trying to explain the pitcher to hitters, like you don't get to
46:24
dictate when you start. Well, I should say you do get to
46:27
dictate when you start, but if you choose to wait until the
46:31
pitcher does it until the pitcher's going, like, you're
46:34
going to be late. Yeah, yeah.
46:36
And this, we're not a pitching podcast.
46:38
So, you know, definitely like talk all different aspects of
46:42
it. You know, we cover the whole
46:43
gamut on that. So, you know, and again, I I
46:46
doubt that this was the case in, you know, in the men's fast
46:50
pitch when you're doing the national team stuff.
46:52
But, you know, I also find with sometimes with hitters, they get
46:56
worried that they're going to be late.
46:58
So they start too early and then they get themselves stuck.
47:02
So it's like they start, they load, they pause, and then they
47:05
try to get restarted and then they're going to end up like
47:08
that way. Do you find that as well?
47:10
Yeah. But I mean, there's there's a
47:12
timing aspect of like you get started with your upper body,
47:15
but you don't necessarily stride right away.
47:18
You know, the old get your foot down is that's where they get
47:21
stuck because you just like try to get your foot down early
47:25
because you think that's the timing you need.
47:26
But you know, you don't get to a separate, you don't get to
47:31
separation and the separation you need everybody's separation
47:36
is a different point. And that's probably the next
47:40
most underrated thing when it comes to the hitting side is,
47:44
you know, just because one one person may have only needed to
47:48
go to, you know, a little bit, you know, they teach every kid
47:52
to be right here in their shoulders.
47:54
And the next kid may need to be, you know, Otani style with
47:59
there's early start separation. You know, there's there's
48:04
everybody requires different a different distance to make that
48:09
work. And I think, you know, as a
48:11
hitting coach, it's your job to find where that is for each kid.
48:16
Yep, so. And that's going to vary too by
48:19
pitcher, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
48:21
So you're going to be different for, you know, kid that's
48:23
throwing 57 versus necessarily. The timing each time may be
48:27
different, but where your spot is doesn't change.
48:30
So then, yeah, I meant what your timing.
48:33
Well, yeah. And so your job is how do you
48:35
get to your? Spot for 5767 and 77 right
48:39
that's what the on deck circles for and that that's probably
48:44
that was the hard part of you know not having a enough time
48:49
with the hitters when we were in Argentina is you just you can't
48:52
really teach a hitting an offensive philosophy with two
48:56
days worth of work and you know the first time we watch them
48:59
play is you know we really see them play is the first time we
49:03
play a real game and you're like OK, well you throw that one out
49:06
and it was 87 we just weren't ready and then you get 82 and
49:10
you're like OK, well he's he's probably.
49:13
The best pitcher in the tournament.
49:14
Besides Marco, OK. And now you're into day three
49:17
and that dude's 78 and you're still like, OK, you know, now
49:22
it's a problem, you know, and you know, and again, hitting is
49:29
so mental, you know, you go over the first three games and even
49:34
though we're two and one, we aren't swinging the back crate.
49:37
And, you know, then we get the easy one, We go 3 and 1, you
49:40
know, feeling pretty good. And then a couple mistakes and
49:44
we still haven't really hit the ball and, you know, kind of
49:47
limped to the finish. So, Nick, I'm going to I'm.
49:49
Going to Fast forward a little bit here I.
49:50
Want to get into a little bit of recruiting or at least
49:54
evaluation with you a little bit.
49:56
People that are listening mostly to this are, you know, parents
49:59
and and some coaches and stuff like that.
50:01
What do you guys? And you can, let's just put it
50:04
in pitching if you, if you want, what do you, what do you think
50:06
out? What are college coaches really
50:08
looking for when you're evaluating, say a pitcher or
50:12
even a hitter? If you want, I'll stay across
50:14
the board. Like who doesn't?
50:15
Belong like if you walk to. The field and you go.
50:21
Which kid looks like they don't belong or which kid looks like
50:26
this, just for lack of a term, looks different.
50:28
You know the thing I said earlier about how you, well, you
50:31
control your head and how well you move your feet are probably
50:35
the two things I noticed first and foremost before anything
50:38
else. There's a lot of people who can
50:40
make the play, but will they make the play at the next level?
50:45
When everything has to be speed up a little bit faster.
50:49
As a hitter, same thing. How well are you controlling
50:52
your head? How well do you control your
50:53
barrel? I say this all the time, Put
50:55
your body in good positions. The kids who put their body in
50:59
good. Positions all.
51:00
The time tend to be the best athletes and the best players.
51:03
Not necessarily, you know, you look, everyone who's on a roster
51:08
was better than everyone. Most kids.
51:12
Didn't travel, ball on. The field, whatever.
51:14
Or they were the best of the best of their age group.
51:17
That's another one of my favorite things is like using my
51:19
college basketball experience, like I was 18 and I was really
51:22
good against every other 18 year old.
51:23
When you got to guard a 22 year old, it's different.
51:27
And that translates to softball too.
51:30
Like you're playing when you're an 18 year old freshman and
51:32
you're playing against somebody who's done this every day for
51:34
four years. That is a gigantic talent gap.
51:37
Yes, it is. Or I shouldn't say talent gap.
51:39
It's a gigantic experience gap. And so the talent gap can shrink
51:47
a little bit if you're really, really talented.
51:50
But you know, my college basketball coach used to tell me
51:53
all the time, you just don't know how to play yet, You know,
51:55
and, and I take that experience for myself is like I played for
51:58
a Hall of Fame high school basketball coach, but it was a
52:01
very regimented, you go here on offense.
52:03
And when when the ball's here, you go here, you know, or not
52:07
even that. It's when you you know, you go
52:09
here, then this person goes here, then this person goes
52:11
here. Well, we got to college, we
52:14
played the Bobby Knight motion, which is when the ball's here,
52:16
you go there or you can go here or you can go here.
52:18
But you have to know what the you have to know where to go
52:21
correctly based on what the ball did and where it's going and
52:25
everything else. So you have to think five times
52:27
faster and understand where the other four guys are going to be.
52:30
I came to realize later on like he was right.
52:32
I just didn't know how to play basketball the way he wanted to
52:35
play. I think a lot of freshmen get
52:37
here and they don't know how to play softball yet, just in terms
52:41
of the speed of the game, where things have to happen,
52:44
situations, everything else don't know how to play when I'm
52:48
you know, I'm looking for in it's a long answer, but to
52:52
summit, like I'm looking for the kid who doesn't belong or stands
52:54
out. Tools matter.
52:56
They just do the skills you, we can teach you the skills and you
53:01
know, because we get you for. 20 hours a week.
53:03
For nine months, I can teach you some of the skills.
53:06
I can't make you throw 70 if you only throw 60.
53:10
I can't make you hit it 70 if you only hit it 60.
53:14
OK, that's a big jump. That is a talent jump That just
53:19
probably isn't going to happen. It doesn't happen for girls very
53:22
often, guys, you'll see a dude can walk onto campus as a 5 foot
53:26
10175 LB scrawny kid and he hits a late girl spurt and he's
53:30
suddenly 6 foot 4225 and he's throwing 98.
53:33
That doesn't really happen with girls.
53:36
They they are the the size they are at 15 or 16.
53:41
We might be able to get them a little bit more strength and
53:43
athleticism in the weight room, but if you don't throw it hard
53:47
enough, hit it hard enough or move fast enough, you're
53:50
probably not going to get to the level that's necessary when you
53:55
get there. Like at any point you'll.
53:57
Become a better player, but your tools aren't good enough to
54:00
really ever get on the field. I I say all the time, there's
54:03
plenty of kids who will become better players just by
54:04
practicing 20 hours a week. But if you don't.
54:08
Have the. The juice and the horsepower
54:11
like a crappy 4 cylinder engine isn't beating a Corvette in the
54:14
race, right? Unless the unless the Corvette
54:16
loses control and careens and hits a tree, you're never
54:21
winning that race. So you you have to hope for
54:25
someone else to screw up for you to succeed.
54:28
And I always say hope isn't a plan.
54:30
So Yep, very true. What are we looking for I.
54:33
You? Know pitching wise like I look
54:34
for ball flight. Because if you don't have
54:38
something that goes up or down and you don't have change of
54:41
speed, I don't know how you survive at this level.
54:45
Are there any other things that someone can do?
54:47
At a showcase or you know, at a recruiting event or something
54:51
like that to really make themselves stand out.
54:54
One of the things for position players is to me is.
54:56
How you play catch? Because it goes back to what I.
55:00
Just said like do you move your? Feet.
55:02
Do you have good feet? Do you get your thumb under the
55:05
ball with the glove? OK.
55:07
When you catch with your palm forward like this, see a lot of
55:10
people do that and they start to stab at it, that's a little
55:13
insight. Oftentimes it's one of two
55:15
things. You're either lazy or you can't,
55:17
or your depth perception isn't very good.
55:19
And So what I've learned is if I see you catch the ball that way,
55:22
I'm not really interested in finding out which one of those
55:25
two it actually is. Yeah.
55:27
Yeah, I can. Understand that in either case.
55:30
I'm going to be pounding. My head against the wall to a
55:32
certain extent because as I it has been, I have had to tell a
55:37
couple of kids you can't see before and one kid took it, ran
55:42
with it and and did a great job with it and the other kid didn't
55:48
believe me. So I I think it's important to
55:54
have. Success but.
55:56
You know, we, we watch, we go to these showcases, we watch what
56:00
you actually do. I'm more looking for, do you
56:03
display the tools that look necessary?
56:06
Because I can go watch plenty of videos on you to see you
56:09
actually have success. I have a love hate with kind of
56:12
going to these things. You know I I may have seen you
56:15
on your best day. I may have also seen you on your
56:16
worst day, which is also why the data matters to me of like OK,
56:20
you went over 4 but you've come to camp and hit 70 miles an hour
56:25
of exit below off of my machine at 62 miles an hour.
56:30
Yeah, you can hit you just had a bad day.
56:32
There's a million variables to success and non success in our
56:37
sport but. Your.
56:41
Tools aren't the variable you. Either.
56:45
Can do it or you can't. There's gas in that tank.
56:49
There's. Juice in that bat.
56:50
Or there isn't and and then how much does?
56:55
For lack of a better term, character factor in as you're
56:58
looking at a kid. Say the kid has the tools, but
57:01
you're not sure that she has the maturity or the the mental
57:06
toughness or whatever you want to call it to handle adversity
57:09
because it is an adversity based game.
57:12
I don't think you can ever. Truly know that.
57:17
Now character is a different question because you know,
57:20
certainly you can kind of watch and see if a kids just a jerk on
57:23
the field sometimes, but they're always on their best behavior
57:27
around us. But in terms of the mental
57:29
toughness and how they handle failure and everything else, how
57:32
hard they work. I don't think you can.
57:34
Ever know that? Because travel ball.
57:38
Coaches are in the business. Of selling us kids ultimately if
57:42
they do. Tell me like hey I.
57:44
Don't know that she works hard enough.
57:45
Like that's a major red flag because and you know, and we all
57:49
have relationships. Some coaches who might be like,
57:51
you know, with some travel teams and things, but you know, you
57:55
always. Like your own player?
57:57
And you're always have some bias to your own players regardless,
58:00
OK, even we deal with it now in the transfer portal, you know, a
58:03
kid, a coach calls me and I'm like, I'm not going to blow up
58:06
this kid. I, I like her.
58:07
I wanted to have an opportunity even if it didn't work out here.
58:10
So there's always some inherent bias to the kids, you know, So
58:14
I, I, I don't think you can ever truly know that, you know, you
58:17
don't spend enough time with them to know truly who they are.
58:25
So while character, yes, it's important if it's if you're
58:28
clearly not a jerk, if you tell me if you're a child, can you
58:32
tell me she's the hardest worker?
58:35
Great. I've heard that 10 times already
58:36
today. Yeah.
58:38
And just because, you know, it's the old and I I think that's one
58:43
of the to answer an earlier question a little bit is like,
58:47
don't mistake activity for achievement.
58:50
No one ever sits here and thinks.
58:51
They don't work hard enough. If they do, they're probably.
58:55
Not planning on playing in college sports?
58:57
Anyways, everyone thinks they work hard enough, but they don't
59:03
know what someone else is doing. So, Nick, I want to, I want to
59:05
come back to you here for. A minute buddy again, thanks for
59:09
the for all your time today. I really appreciate you hanging
59:11
out with Ken and I talking talking softball, but what's
59:14
what's next for you in your in your coaching journey?
59:17
What what's are you happy? You know, I'm sure you're happy
59:19
where you're at, but is, you know, are you, you like staying
59:23
in that element of being the pitching coach, hitting coach or
59:26
you ever have, you know, aspirations to get back and be a
59:28
head coach ever again. I never ruled anything out.
59:31
I like it here. I'm close enough to home.
59:35
I, I love Coach Butler, so I'm, I, my feet are here.
59:37
I don't really think about what's next 'cause I think if
59:40
you have a plan in coaching, prepare for you better.
59:45
Have three plans because. Prepare for that plan not to
59:47
actually happen. OK.
59:49
In terms of what's? Next, I don't know.
59:51
And like I said before, for 18 straight years now, since the
59:56
first year, someone's called and said they they want me.
59:58
So the first question will be is does Coach Butler want me back?
1:00:01
And then after that see from there I like.
1:00:05
It here I think. We can build something here.
1:00:07
We're certainly, you know, we're getting a new stadium here at
1:00:09
Rutgers finally. And, you know, we're starting
1:00:11
to, to really pour some stuff into the program and I, I think
1:00:14
we can really build something to be successful here.
1:00:17
So I, I just, I don't really think about what's next.
1:00:20
I've been blessed to have done everything that I could have
1:00:25
even possibly imagined. I think the only thing left now
1:00:29
would be to women's Olympics for me.
1:00:34
Having now done. International ball on the men's
1:00:36
side, I've been to two College World Series.
1:00:38
I've like I, you know, I've been able to be a head coach.
1:00:41
I have enough experience everything now that just, you
1:00:44
know, if if tomorrow I had to stop coaching, I really couldn't
1:00:49
complain about the last 19 years.
1:00:51
So, you know, everything from here on out is just gravy.
1:00:54
And you know, I don't really have any kind of five year plan,
1:00:59
anything else like that because every situation.
1:01:03
Is different. Well, again.
1:01:04
Thanks, Nick for spending time with us today, Ken.
1:01:06
Do you have any more questions for Nick or No, I don't.
1:01:09
I think he's given us. A lot of great insights and we
1:01:12
really appreciate all the time he spent with us today.
1:01:15
No problem, appreciate you having me on.
1:01:17
Hope I answered some good questions without rambling too
1:01:20
much and circling back over and over again.
1:01:24
He definitely did. I don't know that.
1:01:25
I'm that interesting, but you know.
1:01:27
See, I guess no, It was very interesting and.
1:01:31
Again, good perspectives and just a little bit of a different
1:01:35
coaching journey as you went along starting so early, going
1:01:38
through all the different things, all the opportunities
1:01:40
have come along and you know, we hope for more of those great
1:01:44
opportunities to come along. If anybody from the Olympic
1:01:48
coaching pools, you know the selection pool is listening and
1:01:53
he's thrown his hat in the ring. Now I'm.
1:01:57
They they have a great staff. I'm not, I'm not.
1:02:00
I I just said that's the probably the last thing on the
1:02:02
list. Hey, you never know.
1:02:06
I have a left. Arm that can throw a batting
1:02:07
practice. I'm willing.
1:02:08
To travel that's that's pretty much how my career got you know,
1:02:14
it has continued and continue to go.
1:02:16
So, you know, as long as long as it still moves in a.
1:02:19
Circle there's. There's a market for someone to
1:02:22
need batting practice, so for sure.
1:02:26
All right, well. That's it for us this week.
1:02:28
Thank you to all of you for listening and the kind words
1:02:31
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1:02:33
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1:02:52
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