Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 338—Army captain, 323 GRE. Indonesian transportation buff. Wharton vs Haas and Scholarship

Transcript

MBA Wire Taps 338—Army captain, 323 GRE. Indonesian transportation buff. Wharton vs Haas and Scholarship · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:14
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, February 12, 2024. Are you looking for an MBA program where you'll be more than just a number? Vanderbilt Business offers a personalized learning experience to help each student reach their unique career goals. Whether you're looking to switch careers entirely or accelerate the path you're on, the Vanderbilt MBA program will provide you with the individual support you need to propel your career forward. Vanderbilt is currently waiving their $200 application fee for MBA wiretaps listeners to learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program and to claim your application fee waiver, visit business vanderbilt.edu clearadmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
• 0:59
  Speaker B: Very good. Thank you, Graham.
• 1:01
  Speaker A: So I was counting. This is the 240th episode of our weekly wiretap shows, and obviously, there are over 300 episodes of this show, the Clear Admit podcast, because we have some guests sometimes and don't do wiretaps. But we have done 240 episodes of wiretaps every week, and I don't think we've missed a single week. And so I'm ready to call the Guinness book.
• 1:23
  Speaker B: Yes, I know we haven't missed a week.
• 1:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't think so. I actually looked this up. So four years. I counted it out. Four years, seven months, and change. So, yeah. Coming up on five years of doing this, every week in and week out. I can't believe it.
• 1:36
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 1:38
  Speaker A: So what was going on last week? I saw the wires kind of exploding with activity. Some schools are really kind of. We've got a lot of interview invitations coming. Yeah. What's the.
• 1:49
  Speaker B: I mean, we're seeing a lot of activity now on Livewire with the interview invites. This week, for the first time, we saw Columbia with its second round, at least some of its second round interviews invites. Ross London Business School has released all theirs. Also, obviously, we've still got a lot of interview invites coming out from schools like Stanford and the schools that tend to trickle them out more. So that activity is still ongoing. And this upcoming week is another big school that seemed, you know, folks are waiting for. And that's Wharton.
• 2:32
  Speaker A: All right, when is that? Is that later in the week?
• 2:35
  Speaker B: I think it's two days after Valentine's day.
• 2:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. All right, so that would be Friday.
• 2:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, February 16. So I think we're going to have a special podcast episode that following week. Right. Or our wiretaps episode will be dedicated to Wharton interview invite.
• 2:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, we'll just talk through how to handle the TBD at Wharton, which I think is just. And there'll be some good general interview advice there whenever we talk about interviewing. So stay tuned for that. We do have a bunch of events coming up, so speaking of after Valentine's Day. So on Valentine's Day, I don't know how this ended up getting scheduled, but on Valentine's Day, we're sitting down with Chicago Booth. Let's see, am I doing. Yeah, Chicago Booth, Wharton and Yale to talk about their deferred enrollment programs. So that's at. So, you know, after you buy chocolate or roses or whatever you're doing for Valentine's Day or before, hang out with us and learn about deferred enrollment. There's that booth scholars program. Wharton has the wellace advanced access, and Yale has their silver Scholars program. So those three schools are going to join us for a deferred enrollment event, and you can sign up for that by going to bit Lefeb 24. So deFeb 24. So, yeah, that should be fun. And then the hits keep coming because the week after that, we're starting to do some events with masters in management programs. So on February 21, which is a week later, we've got Georgetown, Carnegie Mellon, Emory, and Notre Dame talking to us about those programs. And then the week that follows February 20 eigth, we've got Chicago Booth, Kellogg, Michigan, and Duke. And the masters in management. Again, those are sort of pre experience programs for people graduating from college. You can learn more about that and sign up at bit Le Ca MFEB. So Camimfeb. And then the last event that I wanted to plug Alex is we're doing like an ask me anything live chat with NYU Stern. And that's more for MBA applicants, not deferred or anything. And that's on Wednesday, March 6, so still a lot of time to go there. That'll be at 11:00 a.m.. Eastern. 08:00 a.m.. Pacific. And you can sign up for that by going to bit Lenyuama for ask me anything. So that'll be fun. I don't think we've done one of those before with NYU. So there you have it.
• 5:02
  Speaker B: What was the date of that last one? Sorry?
• 5:05
  Speaker A: Wednesday, March 6.
• 5:06
  Speaker B: March 6.
• 5:07
  Speaker A: So that should be fun.
• 5:10
  Speaker B: They're not still an unofficial sponsor of wiretaps, are they, Graham?
• 5:13
  Speaker A: They are not, actually, we have a new sponsor. I'm glad that you mentioned this. We have a new sponsor for the show, and it's Vanderbilt Owen school, which I'm just absolutely thrilled about Vanderbilt have been so great to us. They're sponsoring the show for a while now. I guess this is the first episode, but it's going to run for a while. I can't remember the exact terms, but yeah. So as I mentioned at the outset, there's a little ad that runs where I talk about how they're actually waiving their application fee for anyone who listens to wiretaps, which I think is a really cool thing to do. Right. Did you know that, Alex? I don't know if I told you.
• 5:44
  Speaker B: That they are waiving.
• 5:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, you can save $200 when you're applying to Vander. If you're a wiretaps listener, there's a code or you got to go to a. I read a lead in at the outside of this episode which people hopefully paid attention to, but I know, I can't remember what the thing is, but there's like a website, I think it's just you go to the Vanderbilt website, clearadmit or something.
• 6:04
  Speaker B: Fantastic.
• 6:05
  Speaker A: So it's very cool. So the other thing, speaking of discounts or giveaways or whatever, we give out stars to people who earn enough likes on the wires, right? So if you're commenting on our site and someone likes your comment or they like your post, you'll notice you kind of accrue these likes. And when you get 30 of them, you get a star. When you get 60, I think you get two stars. And then the top level kind of contributor on our site has 90 likes and that's a three star user. And so to celebrate the fact that our community is so generous with their time leaving these comments and things, we're actually doing some awards, right? So if you earn a star, you can get a $10 Amazon gift card the second time. When you get a second star, we'll give you a $20 Amazon gift card. And then for people who earn three stars, which you got to comment a lot and get a lot of people liking your comments, we're giving out $50 Amazon gift cards. So pretty cool stuff. And I hope that we see as this kind of spring months come here and people really get into engaging on the site that people will start to earn some stars.
• 7:09
  Speaker B: Yeah. No, brilliant. Do you know how many stars the top star earner currently has?
• 7:13
  Speaker A: Well, there's three is the most you can have, but you mean how many likes they have?
• 7:17
  Speaker B: I'm sorry? How many likes? Yes.
• 7:18
  Speaker A: I don't. I mean, it's got to be over a thousand. Is it more than 2000 or.
• 7:22
  Speaker B: No, no. Well, I mean, if you're talking about us, yes, it's over a thousand, because obviously we're on the site all the time. Elliot leads the way, followed by me. And you're a bit of a distant third. Graham, you're third nonetheless. But no, for a community member, what would be the top number?
• 7:43
  Speaker A: Boy, does somebody have 500 likes.
• 7:45
  Speaker B: That would be a lot more than 700. Heading toward 800.
• 7:50
  Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, so that's someone who's really dedicated.
• 7:54
  Speaker B: Anyway, they've been with us for three or four years, and actually, their real insight is on decision wire, helping folks think through their decision choices and really useful insights.
• 8:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Obviously, I'm hoping everyone takes part in this and just. Yeah, when you leave comments or if you like someone's comment, please be sure to just click the little like button because it helps people to earn these stars. Other news, Alex, in the admissions world is that us news published their online MBA rankings. I know most of our listeners are pretty focused on traditional, kind of full time in person, but I always keep an eye on these rankings. I think they somehow are a little bit related to kind of the brand of these schools. So you've got like, this year, Indiana Kelly is alone at the top, followed by Carnegie Mellon, tepper in second. UNC and USC are tied for third. Then we've got u. Washington Foster at, I guess number five because of the tie there. Then we've got Florida, Arizona State, U. Arizona, U. Kansas, and Rochester Institute of Technology rounding out the top ten. I think the thing for me that jumps out always is how the top group, the top five at least or so, they're all coming out of programs that offer very strong, traditional, kind of full time, in person mbas. And so that's no surprise that they're good at the online stuff, too, I guess.
• 9:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Well done to Kelly. I just do wonder where Ross is because I know they offer an online MBA program and they would be part of that top group for sure.
• 9:31
  Speaker A: I'm just wondering if they must not be participating. We said this last year, too, so they must not participate. But in any event. So there's that over on the website, admissions tips. We keep rolling out about interviewing because it's that time of year. And Alex, I don't know if you know this, but we ran our seven hardest interview questions piece and we made a change to that this year. And that's because one of the seven questions we decided was not being asked enough anymore. So I don't know if you remember, we used to have this question in there that was describe. Where is it? It was like, oh, people you remember the most, break the rules and then explain why. Or what do you think of that statement or something? And the problem is, no one's really asking that. I think it was Duke that used to ask that or somebody, and it's not been coming up in the interview archive. So Lauren, on our team, kind of combed through and replaced it with describe a time someone gave you difficult feedback. How did you respond? Which I think is a good one because that is not always easy to talk about your. So in any event, that's up on the site. It's also accompanied by a video that you and I recorded. Alex, for the admissions academy that kind of walks through this stuff, so should be helpful to people who are getting ready to interview.
• 10:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think Lauren did a great job tackling that particular question, that new question. And I think it's becoming a much more common question. Right. And we need know, it doesn't matter who you are, we've all received difficult feedback at some point in our careers that hopefully we've adjusted and improved from and so forth. So. Yeah, no, I think it's a terrific question, actually.
• 11:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. And the other thing that's back on the website is our real numbers series. This is just where we kind of run through some of the numbers across all the top schools that we cover. So we did one on class size and the breakdown of the class. Right. So how big is each class and how do they break down? Are there cohorts? Are there learning teams? Because some schools don't do that stuff and some do. So we've got that. That's up on the site. I think you talk about this a lot, Alex, but it's always interesting to see how some of the very big schools also happen to be some of the highly ranked schools. There are the occasional exceptions, like Stanford, that's half the size of harvard or something. In terms of their generally, you know, you see the bigger class sizes with the higher ranked schools and stuff.
• 11:47
  Speaker B: I mean, it makes perfect sense, too, right? The better schools are able to attract more of the high quality candidates, right?
• 11:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:56
  Speaker B: At the end of the day, size correlates with ranking to some degree, with, as you say, the exceptions like Stamford, maybe Sloan, a little bit.
• 12:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:09
  Speaker B: And so forth. But when you look at the top seven, when you move into the eigth, there's a drop off in size. When you move from the top 16 to the top 20, there's a drop off in size. You see it quite clearly.
• 12:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And the other one we did is total cost. So we have like a chart where we calculate what does it cost to attend these schools per year? And this means tuition, lodging, food, everything, like all in. What does it cost? And these are based on the estimates that the schools themselves publish. And so I wanted to ask you if you just had any idea what school is the priciest per year and what that price would be.
• 12:53
  Speaker B: I was actually just going to ask you, crab, what is the most expensive school?
• 12:56
  Speaker A: It's not what I expected at all. The most expensive school, and I almost like, did a double take, is Washington University, St. Louis Oland, and they're at $145,000 a year. I'm not really sure what's driving that. The reason I say that is because they are a good bit north of most of the other schools in this little list that we made. So, for example, I think the next most expensive is the New York schools are pretty expensive. They're like 126 or something a year. And then a lot of the top ten schools hover in that 120 to 126 kind of range. It also was just interesting to see for me, like a school like Indiana Kelly, 81 per year, so a lot less. And I don't know if that's because just the location and the cost of living or just maybe state school. It's hard to know what's driving some of these because the numbers that we have here are meant to be out of state. Right. We're not counting in state tuition, which is often a lot lower. Just interesting to see. And another one that kind of jumped out at me. Where is it? Yeah, Duke said 106 a year, which is a bit lower than some of the other schools on the list. So anyway, just fascinating to see. We'll keep running these pieces just to help people kind of see everything in one place. I just think they're useful for that.
• 14:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, really good information.
• 14:22
  Speaker A: So before we get into the wiretaps, candidates, which we're about to do, there was one other thing we did, which we ran for Fridays from the front line. We shared a piece from Harvard Business school about their African American Student Union, which is a group that was founded back in 1968 by five black students at HBS. And it's become this large community, obviously, for all black students at HBS, inclusive of background. So I think it includes international, domestic, everyone. And they do a whole bunch of things, so you can read about it on the site. But they have retreats, they've got kind of a new ventures event. They obviously celebrate black History Month with different events. So there's just a nice piece about that up on the site that you can read. Other than that, Alex, I don't have anything this week. I think we did tackle a bunch at the outset here as it is. But if people want to write to us, they can write to info@clearadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps and Alex and I will write back. Alex, did you have anything else, though, before we dive in?
• 15:21
  Speaker B: No, I think we better kick on.
• 15:24
  Speaker A: I know. All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one. So our first candidate this week is looking to start in the fall of 25. So a little bit of an early bird. And they're applying to Columbia, Tuck, Georgetown, Harvard, NYU, Chicago, Wharton, and Yale. This candidate has been in the military as a software engineer working, they say, an SWE engineer for IC. So software engineer for integrated circuits is my understanding. I had to google some of this stuff to make sure I understood what I was talking about. And they want to get into banking or maybe private equity or asset management after business school. So a little bit of a pivot. They're going to go to Goldman or Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan, Blackstone. They have a whole long list here. Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, asset management, Vanguard. I mean, it's a long list that they shared with us. They have a GrE score of 323, GPA is 3.9. And they've got six years of experience. They're located in the midwest. They want to land in the northeast after business school. And they mentioned that they are enlisted army. I guess they've been working in the psychological operations domain, or psychops, as we would say, Air force officer cyber warfare. They mentioned out as a captain. I guess that must mean that when they left their role in the military, they were at the captain level. In any event, they mentioned they're currently a senior software engineer for a three letter I had to look that up, means, you know, CIA, FBI, NSA, one of those agencies. And they mentioned they also have a master's in computer science from a near ivy, and they say they had a three eight in that degree. So very strong grades, 28 year old male. And they mentioned that Yale is their absolute top choice. Alex, you had a little bit of an exchange with this person, but what do you make of their candidacy?
• 17:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think this is a really interesting candidate, Graham. I mean, they started enlisted army and seemed to have progressed really well. And like you say, out as captain, a lot of work in psychological operations, probably doing some really interesting stuff. So from that standpoint, there's a lot to like. I think their undergraduate record, three nine GPA from a state school, which is fine in of itself. I mean, some people would think, well, actually Ernie went to a state school, but at the end of the day, if you got a three nine gpa, you've done very well. And they've complemented that with a three eight in computer science, what they qualify as a near ivy. So academically they look really strong too. I'm quite curious about this. Yale is my absolute top choice. I mean, Yale's an outstanding program, but if they get into Wharton or Harvard, it might be a little bit, well, Columbia too, they got on their list. It might be a little bit of a challenge for them to weigh that up against Yale, but we'll see how those top choices pan out through the admission cycle. They're applying next season, so hopefully they're going to be an early bird next season. I hope their post MBA goals are well developed. I think investment banking makes sense rather than worry about private equity at this point in terms of preparation for. And then what's the longer term goal? That would be interesting to see what they really sort of. What sort of impact are they looking at in the longer run? Based off of what I think is quite an interesting profile out of the military, and they've got a 323 GRE. Now, in combination with their academic record, they're clearly smart enough to do well in these MBA programs. I don't think that's going to be a question at all, but I would suggest that if they're applying early next season and they have the time and the wherewithal, if they can squeeze out an extra two or three points out of that GRe, come in with a 326 327, which is going to be closer to the medians of the top schools that they're targeting. And we know Yale has a high median gre. So I would really encourage them to take one more go at the GRE and make it a little bit more reflective of the rest of their academic profile. Other than that, Graham, I think we've got a really strong candidate.
• 20:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, I could not agree more. I mean, I think that just for the record here, Yale's median Gre is 330, right? So there are seven points below that. Now, I know that some of the other schools on their list, interestingly enough, they're actually closer, even though those other schools might be technically higher ranked schools. But Yale, they're one of the few schools that I really admire for kind of keeping the line on Gre and GMAT, meaning a 330 GRE does equate to these 730 type GMAT scores that schools typically have required or have had as their kind of median or whatever. So it's interesting, Yale seems to be sticking to their guns on that. And so if Yale really is their top choice, then they owe it to themselves, I think, to take the test again, especially because they have more time. They're not applying until next fall. Right. So there's time there. The only other thing I would say, I was kind of alluding to this, I guess, earlier, is be careful with jargon. Right? So they use a lot of jargon in their post. SWA engineer for IC, three letter software engineer for a three letter. In event, they just need to keep an eye on that because their reader will not know what all those things stand for. And military folks are notorious for using this kind of jargon. And so to the extent that you can spell things out and speak in kind of just layman's terms will go a long way in demonstrating to the admissions committee that you're ready for the business world and can explain these things in ways that non military folks and non kind of engineering folks understand. Right.
• 21:41
  Speaker B: So that's important. Makes good sense.
• 21:43
  Speaker A: But I think this is a great candidate. You point out they started by enlisting in the army, then they end up in the air force as an officer and out as a captain. So, yeah, really amazing trajectory. I think this person is a home run. I just feel like since they have the time, I would take the test again. Work with a tutor, whatever you need to do to just try to get a big score. It may actually influence scholarships and other outcomes, too, so can't hurt, right?
• 22:06
  Speaker B: It's just like advice we always provide. Get your best score. Is 323 really your best score in this candidate's case? I don't think it probably is.
• 22:17
  Speaker A: Yeah. Agreed. So, in any event, I do want to thank them for their service and for posting on the wires and engaging in some conversation with you. I think, obviously, again, they have time. I think they're going to land on their feet for sure. So I want to wish them the best of luck.
• 22:31
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 22:32
  Speaker A: Yeah, let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate is also an early bird looking to start in the fall of 25. And they have Berkeley on their list. They've got imperial in the UK, insead, Manchester and MIT. Sloan and I'll get into why they have that sort of hodgepodge of schools. They are currently working in consulting at a big four firm. So non MBB. And after business school, they want to get into consulting and maybe eventually entrepreneurship. They've got Bain and McKinsey in their sites. Their GPA from Undergrad is a 3.38. They mentioned it's an upward trend. They did pretty terribly in the first year. Apparently they've got seven years of work experience. This candidate is located in Indonesia and their background is in civil, kind of transport engineering. They went to the number one engineering school in Indonesia and they mentioned they were very active extracurricularly, et cetera. You and I talked about this beforehand, but they were actually captain of a futsal team, which is indoor soccer or indoor football, I guess, as you would say, alex. So they were definitely active and they did, as I say, have this kind of upward trend with their grades.
• 23:48
  Speaker B: I'm going to interrupt you there. I think they would call it football, too.
• 23:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, they probably would.
• 23:53
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 23:54
  Speaker A: Yes, that's fair. Yes. Let's see. So they worked as an engineer after that, after college in construction, and then they switched into this kind of consulting role at the big four firm. But they have a focus on transport and infrastructure as their industry, and they've been doing very well there. They were named best employee in the company. They've won a bunch of case competitions. So this is kind of rising star. And they mentioned that they want to do a dual degree in business. Ideally, this sort of MIT has this LGO kind of joint degree with their engineering, or it's like a leaders in manufacturing type joint degree or something, if memory serves, operations stuff. And Haas has something similar, or they say an MBA that's really into stem stuff. And they have some one year kind of options that they're thinking about in Europe, like Imperial and Manchester, where, again, two universities that are pretty well known for engineering and things aside from business. They haven't taken the test yet. You'll notice I didn't give a score. And so they're hoping to get somewhere between 710 and 730 on the GMAT or around 685 on the GMAT focus edition, which is all that's available for them to take now. So, Alex, what do you make of this? Because this is kind of interesting background. I know they did elaborate on their goals when you prompted them, and they sort of talked about how those goals are in transportation, and they seem really interested in that domain. But what do you make of this candidacy?
• 25:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think, again, we've got another great candidate here. I really like their long term goal, actually, in terms of impacting transportation back in their home country of Indonesia. And I imagine transportation in Indonesia is quite a complicated issue to tackle.
• 25:38
  Speaker A: You know that Jakarta is always on the list of the worst traffic places on the planet, right? So it beats out La for having the worst traffic jams.
• 25:47
  Speaker B: So, yeah, they need help. I didn't know that. All I really know about Indonesia is it's a large democracy, right. It's third largest democracy on the planet. But also, I think it's a bunch of islands, right?
• 26:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. I've actually been twice to Indonesia, and it's beautiful. I mean, it's an amazing place.
• 26:05
  Speaker B: So transportation, if it's a bunch of islands, has to be quite a complicated problem, I would just assume. Right. But my point is, I think their work experience looks really good, and they look like they've done really well at work. Right. They can show that with all their sort of awards and impact and so on and so forth. And their work experience relates directly with this long term ambition of coming back to Indonesia after maybe a year or two's consulting stint in the US or Europe, wherever they land for their MBA, but come back to Indonesia and make a real impact in transportation, in the private sector in Indonesia, which transportation is mostly a public sector activity at this juncture. I think that's what they explained. So I really like that. Real good alignment with the goals based on their impact and what they've currently doing. I think schools will like that. I really hope that they ace the GMAT, because, again, the standardized test is an important metric to show your best, and they're hoping for a score between 710, 730, or 680, which will be the new GMAT format and so forth. So, yeah, getting their best score, maybe taking the GMAT now or in reasonably short order, giving them enough time to retake the test if they don't feel that their score is the best that they are capable of producing, and they talk about, they're a little bit concerned about their extracurricular activities not being completely outstanding, but they've got some interesting hobbies and interests, and maybe there's an avenue to pursue one or two of those in more of a leadership capacity over the next several months. But quite honestly, Graham, I think they have an opportunity to be a strong candidate, and their mix of schools looks quite od at first blush. But then when they explain that they're either looking at one year programs or a couple of these really interesting dual degree programs, it sort of makes a little bit more sense. And, yeah, hopefully they can pull it all.
• 28:34
  Speaker A: Think, you know, we are working to take the test and get a high score because even though they went to the best school in Indonesia and did very well. Sorry, they went to the best school, they did very well in the latter years. But they have this three three eight because they did not do well in the first year. So I think getting a high score will kind of cement their narrative right around. Oh, no, I'm actually smart. I just had a period of adjustment getting into school and stuff, so I think that'll be important. And then, yeah, I think the goals make a lot of sense and are very interesting and relevant for the times we live in in terms of transport and stuff. I think that's another excellent choice that you picked them out to talk about because it's just a classic case of they've got the time, take the test, do well on it, and put their best foot forward. Honestly, I don't know enough about the joint degree options when it comes to this domain. There may be other programs out there that could be well suited. I'm thinking about Cornell. There's some other programs out there that have strong engineering and there might be options for them to explore. But this is a good starting list and they have time to kind of.
• 29:42
  Speaker B: Explore all this stuff and also to recognize. For two year MBA programs, I know they have a preference for one year if they only pursue an MBA, but if they pursue a two year MBA, they'll have much more flexibility in the elective offering to go into the engineering schools at the programs that they're at to pick out some additional coursework that relates directly to their ambition and so forth. So I wouldn't dismiss a two year option where if they went to Wharton or something like that, obviously, we're more familiar with Wharton, but they could do some really interesting sort of electives and set a coursework out of the engineering school, I'm sure.
• 30:25
  Speaker A: True. Yeah, good point. All right, well, I want to thank them for their post. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our third candidate, as we've been doing these last several weeks, is a decision wire post that you picked out, Alex, and I'll give everyone the stats here. This person applied to Berkeley, Chicago, Columbia, Dartmouth, Harvard, Michigan, Kellogg, Stern, Stanford, Wharton, and Yale. So very long list of schools that they applied to. They're starting school this fall and they want to work in venture capital, maybe entrepreneurship in the long term. They had a GrE score of 324 and a GPA of 3.7. This person's a New Yorker located in New York. And here's what happened? They got into Berkeley with $188,000 scholarship. Booth also admitted them and gave them 100,000. Columbia, 130,000, Dartmouth gave them 100,000. Michigan Ross, 150, Kellogg, 100, Stern, 180. So very close to that Berkeley figure. Wharton, no dollars, it seems, and then Yale, 40,000. They did exceedingly well. They didn't get into Stanford or Harvard, but I mean, jeez, they got into a number of these schools and with a lot of money. And they mentioned to us that for them it's coming down to Columbia, Berkeley, Kellogg or Wharton. So they've sort of narrowed it down. And remember, so Columbia is 130, Berkeley's 188, Wharton's no money, and Kellogg, as I said earlier, is 100. So they're trying to sort of debate this. And they said that they're moving to Los Angeles after business school. And they also point out that their wife went to Columbia business school. So they actually experienced Columbia business school as a quote, better half. And they do say that they have an option to get sponsorship from their non MBB firm, but their real goal is to pivot into know. And obviously, if you pivot out of what you're doing before business school, you don't get the sponsorship. Right. So normally the terms are that you've got to go back to your current employer for, I think it's like at least three years or something after business school in order for them to pay. And so they asked this question, which is, is the brand and prestige of Wharton in the venture capital domain worth it in terms of turning down all these other scholarships? So what do you make of this, Alex? It's a great dilemma.
• 32:52
  Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's quite a high risk reward scenario, right? Do you choose Wharton with no dollars versus Hass with a very generous package? It seems like we can sort of boil the conversation down to those two in terms of what makes most sense. They want to be in LA and they want to potentially pivot into VC. We know that no matter whether they went to wart nor Hass, pivoting into VC is still going to be quite a tall order. Right? It's not like they want to pivot into consulting, and 50% of the class goes into consulting. So therefore it's going to be quite a very accessible thing. Right. VC is always going to be a little tricky. It's going to be slightly more accessible potentially at Wharton than at has, but tricky nonetheless. So I guess, in my view, I would really scrutinize the LA networks for both schools as well as the networks directly in VC and see how things play out. If there is any opportunity that they think has, can get them there, that's got to be really compelling with that kind of scholarship offer Graham so I would look really closely at that. I would also look at, well, what is their second choice behind VC, which probably is more of a realistically what they're going to be doing. And if that's going back to their company and getting sponsorship from their company, I think that puts Wharton right in the mix.
• 34:39
  Speaker A: Yeah. So that's what I was about to say is I was thinking that initially it's like, okay, if they want to do venture capital, where do you go? So suss out the network for Wharton and Haas in LA and think about what are the VC opportunities, et cetera. And yeah, clearly that Haas money looks really right. But then I had this other thought, which was what if they went to Wharton and had their current company pay and then went back to their current company for a couple of years afterwards, which might mean maybe they can't go to LA right away or it might have impact on where they have to go. But then they have the Wharton network, they've got a free MBA because the company's paid for it, and they can get into VC at that. I did, I did think about, wow, if they were to delay this kind of entrance into VC, or they're at Wharton and they say, you know what? I got a great offer for a VC firm. I'm going to go, or I'm going to tell the VC fund that if I come to you, I need some help paying my tuition because currently I'm supposed to go back to my pre MBA employer and they were going to pay. So that happens. That kind of negotiation can happen if you've got an offer in hand, big signing bonus, whatever it could be. So, yeah, it's definitely an interesting dilemma. And I don't want to be dismissive of the other schools either. I mean, some of these other schools, Stern, Columbia, Booth, I mean, they're offering Kellogg, they're all offering like $100,000 or more, right? So there's a lot of money on the table. But I do think that at the end of the day, Berkeley being on the west coast with $188,000 is probably the one that we look at versus Wharton, where there's no money, but it's the top ranked school they got into. So, yeah, it's a really interesting dilemma, though, and I'm really glad you picked this one out because it was one that we debated internally a little bit as people, because we all posted on it on the site.
• 36:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think it's really interesting. I mean, obviously it's a first world problem. They've done really, really well. And if they go to Wharton, I'm sure they'll be very successful if they go to hass similarly. And it's one of those problems where you'll never know what would have happened if you made the other choice. Right. I know there's a term for that in statistics or whatever, but, yeah, it's a fantastic situation they've managed to put themselves in, but their wrinkle is quite interesting. Right. They want VC in LA, but they have a backup offer, I. E. Returning to their firm, which now they've got to figure out what are the ods of getting the first goal versus relying on the second goal or whatever. Yeah, really, definitely.
• 37:13
  Speaker A: In any event, Alex. So we managed to get through everything. Three great candidates, as usual, and a whole bunch of housekeeping and news and notes that we tackled. So appreciate you making time, as always. And we'll do another one for next week, which we said is going to be focused on Wharton's team based discussion. So look forward to that.
• 37:28
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.