Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Support, Don’t Solve with Leah Marone, LCSW

Transcript

Support, Don’t Solve with Leah Marone, LCSW · The Trauma Therapist

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gaming Person.
0:04
Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
0:07
Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
0:11
Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
0:15
Speaker 1: So five four, three, two and one our folks, welcome
0:19
Speaker 1: back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
0:22
Speaker 1: guest today. Leah Moron.
0:23
Speaker 2: Leah welcome, Thank you so much for having me.
0:27
Speaker 1: Leah is a season therapist, keynote speaker, and wellness consultant
0:30
Speaker 1: with twenty years of clinical experience and more than twenty
0:33
Speaker 1: thousand therapy sessions across three continents. She helps leaders and
0:38
Speaker 1: people pleasers learn to support others without self abandoning using
0:42
Speaker 1: our hallmark framework Support Don't Solve to guide teams, organizations,
0:48
Speaker 1: and individuals toward resilience boundaries and authentic self care. Earlya
0:53
Speaker 1: just a little bit about you before we get going,
0:56
Speaker 1: share with the listeners where you're from originally and where
0:59
Speaker 1: you are currently.
1:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:01
Speaker 3: So, I was born in Dayton, Ohio, and I grew
1:04
Speaker 3: up though in Indianapolis, Carmel, Indiana, just north of Indianapolis,
1:08
Speaker 3: and made my way to Ball State University and University
1:12
Speaker 3: of Texas in Austin. Was overseas for a bit, and
1:16
Speaker 3: my nomadic days are over, I guess for the time being.
1:18
Speaker 3: And I have been in Charlotte, North Carolina, off for
1:21
Speaker 3: about a little over ten years.
1:23
Speaker 1: Awesome. Awesome, So let's get into it here. How does
1:27
Speaker 1: all this start for you? How does the journey begin?
1:32
Speaker 2: How does the journey begin?
1:34
Speaker 3: I guess even from a very young age, I just
1:37
Speaker 3: loved hearing people's stories.
1:40
Speaker 2: I felt even gosh, I.
1:42
Speaker 3: Can remember in elementary school just even when a friend
1:45
Speaker 3: would open up, when there was like some safe space created,
1:49
Speaker 3: I just felt such an honor and a privilege, And
1:53
Speaker 3: I think, you know, I just have always enjoyed helping
1:56
Speaker 3: and watching people and understanding why they do, why they
1:59
Speaker 3: don't do, and of course myself in that mix. And
2:03
Speaker 3: so that really led me to not only watch my
2:06
Speaker 3: mother get her graduate degree in social work growing up,
2:09
Speaker 3: but also kind of really explore a field that had
2:12
Speaker 3: a lot of versatility where you were, you know, really
2:16
Speaker 3: an advocate for mental health and people and.
2:18
Speaker 2: Their stories and their chapters.
2:21
Speaker 3: And so I kind of took that route of psychology
2:23
Speaker 3: social work, had to battle my own anxiety and it
2:28
Speaker 3: really has led me to such versatility in working in
2:31
Speaker 3: different spaces and cities and countries and with different people,
2:34
Speaker 3: and I've really I pay oh so much gratitude to that.
2:39
Speaker 1: So this whole idea of support don't solve is very
2:46
Speaker 1: interesting to me because I think it in a sense
2:50
Speaker 1: it goes against the grain of what a lot of
2:54
Speaker 1: at least a kind of new or inexperience therapists think. Right,
3:03
Speaker 1: you get into the field. A lot of people get
3:05
Speaker 1: into the field because they want to help. They want
3:07
Speaker 1: to they want to solve. They have all you know,
3:12
Speaker 1: they want. They want to take what they've learned, which
3:15
Speaker 1: is understandable, and and fill in the gaps and help heal,
3:20
Speaker 1: help or heal in and of itself or fix. And
3:27
Speaker 1: I think there comes a point for a lot of
3:29
Speaker 1: seasoned people when you realize you it's it's there's a
3:34
Speaker 1: different river flowing as the river is flowing in a
3:38
Speaker 1: different direction, and it says, how did you come up
3:41
Speaker 1: with this idea? This this this what theory concept? When
3:46
Speaker 1: did it become apparent to you?
3:48
Speaker 2: Yeah?
3:49
Speaker 3: Absolutely well, I think it was. You know, I had
3:51
Speaker 3: to apply it. You're absolutely right, just even as a clinician,
3:53
Speaker 3: because we do. We step into the field, we step
3:55
Speaker 3: into spaces, and we want to alleviate other people we
3:59
Speaker 3: you know, are are moving and using our emotional intelligence
4:02
Speaker 3: and kind of stepping forth with compassion and empathy. But
4:05
Speaker 3: it is kind of this fixer mode where it's like,
4:07
Speaker 3: if you're okay, then I'm okay. If I can help
4:09
Speaker 3: you and fix and solve, then it kind of validates
4:12
Speaker 3: this maybe even rigid association that we have with then
4:15
Speaker 3: I'm a good therapist, Then I'm a good friend, then
4:18
Speaker 3: I'm a good parent, and so it's really like ourselves
4:21
Speaker 3: and our self worth is really.
4:22
Speaker 2: Embedded in that equation.
4:24
Speaker 3: And so I was just noticing this not only just
4:27
Speaker 3: in my clinical practice, but when I was working with
4:29
Speaker 3: teams and educators and people in highly compassionate fields, that
4:33
Speaker 3: there was this need and kind of also this self
4:36
Speaker 3: serving sense of like gaining relief to if I can fix,
4:39
Speaker 3: if I can solve, I can check this off.
4:42
Speaker 2: IM good.
4:42
Speaker 3: I'm worthy and they're fine, and I'm helpful and I'm needed.
4:45
Speaker 3: And so I needed to come up with something short,
4:48
Speaker 3: with something snappy, with something that people could think and apply,
4:51
Speaker 3: which is that support, don't solve.
4:53
Speaker 1: Well, what was wrong? What was wrong with solving for you?
4:58
Speaker 3: Yeah? Great question, what's wrong with that?
5:02
Speaker 2: Yeah?
5:02
Speaker 3: I mean if it's a concrete don't get me wrong,
5:04
Speaker 3: if it's a concrete, concrete very like, you know, very
5:08
Speaker 3: direct answer.
5:09
Speaker 2: Absolutely. But when there's emotion.
5:11
Speaker 3: Embedded, when people come with you know, confusion, when they're hurt,
5:15
Speaker 3: when they're you know, trying to you know, get over
5:18
Speaker 3: some hurdle, they're they're in turmoil, I think we do,
5:21
Speaker 3: we fall into cereal fixing. And what this does is
5:24
Speaker 3: not only kind of create those these micro codependencies, but
5:27
Speaker 3: it also tells people like, I'm going to unravel and
5:31
Speaker 3: structure and do all this for you, and you know
5:34
Speaker 3: as well as I do. You may have the best
5:36
Speaker 3: advice in the world, but feel like you're having the
5:40
Speaker 3: same conversation and telling the person play by play what
5:44
Speaker 3: they should do time and time again, and they can't
5:46
Speaker 3: execute because they don't have their own flavor. They don't
5:49
Speaker 3: have that ownership, and so support don't solve. When we
5:53
Speaker 3: come as solvers. It takes a level of patience, It
5:56
Speaker 3: takes a level you know, of keeping ownership with that
5:58
Speaker 3: person but giving them the repetitions they need to build
6:02
Speaker 3: that self trust, to get those processing skills, to gain
6:06
Speaker 3: that independence as we are empowering and leading with compassion,
6:10
Speaker 3: but not creating not only stress for ourselves, but these
6:14
Speaker 3: dependencies and imbalanced relationships.
6:17
Speaker 1: Well, when you when you were working, when you started out,
6:20
Speaker 1: or even when you got some some time in the field,
6:26
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you realized, wait a minute, I this
6:30
Speaker 1: is not working for me. I should I you know,
6:33
Speaker 1: it's what we'll talk to us about that.
6:36
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, my first job kind of out of the gate.
6:39
Speaker 3: I mean, I think after grad school, I was working
6:41
Speaker 3: for juven Operation.
6:44
Speaker 2: And all of my clients were you.
6:45
Speaker 3: Know, they're you know, out in the community on probation
6:48
Speaker 3: or in a facility, and I just remember I was
6:52
Speaker 3: working with them individually. I was working with their families,
6:54
Speaker 3: doing a lot of crisis work, and I did I
6:57
Speaker 3: wanted to kind of go in as someone in my
6:59
Speaker 3: mid twenties and fix this, alleviate this change systems and
7:03
Speaker 3: family dynamics that have been going on for generations and
7:07
Speaker 3: really took a lot of ownership and false ownership at
7:10
Speaker 3: that where I was anxious. I was thinking about this constantly.
7:16
Speaker 3: I was comparing it to what I did, how I
7:18
Speaker 3: did and the guilt and if I'm not available, if
7:20
Speaker 3: I'm not doing this, if I'm not feeling this, then
7:22
Speaker 3: I'm not a good therapist and I don't know how
7:24
Speaker 3: to fix this, and therefore am I.
7:26
Speaker 2: Going to be good in this field?
7:28
Speaker 3: And so it really was this wake up call, and
7:31
Speaker 3: even through even supervision and things where I just I realized, like,
7:35
Speaker 3: I am not effective if I am going in and
7:38
Speaker 3: trying to grab ownership and come also with almost this
7:42
Speaker 3: egocentric view that I know best right and not meeting
7:46
Speaker 3: people and the situation where they are. And that's excruciating
7:49
Speaker 3: because you have to manage your own emotions as you're
7:52
Speaker 3: trying to help someone manage favors.
7:55
Speaker 1: How does that work in a situation or a population
8:00
Speaker 1: intel such as that. My imagine, my thought would be
8:07
Speaker 1: it would be very easy for a clinician to go
8:11
Speaker 1: in and feel like, because they're not on probation right there,
8:17
Speaker 1: they haven't gone maybe they haven't gone through the criminal
8:20
Speaker 1: system that they have the answers, of course they do.
8:25
Speaker 1: So how do you balance that between maybe you do
8:30
Speaker 1: have some answers, but also not trying to shove them
8:33
Speaker 1: down someone's throat. Yeah, And I guess that was maybe
8:38
Speaker 1: not a good analogy, but but go ahead.
8:42
Speaker 3: No, now I'm following, and you're absolutely right.
8:45
Speaker 2: It is. It's kind of this.
8:47
Speaker 3: You have to, you know, and retrain this way, and
8:48
Speaker 3: it's really about executing it and getting our practice in
8:51
Speaker 3: with looking at all the layers, all the dynamics, all
8:54
Speaker 3: the things that are getting in the way of that
8:56
Speaker 3: person that client of executing you know, really being resourceful.
9:01
Speaker 3: You know, they've probably lacked their own repetitions in building
9:04
Speaker 3: that self trust if they've kind of always been in
9:06
Speaker 3: crisis mode. And so it really is taking a step
9:10
Speaker 3: back and using your knowledge and kind of that macro
9:12
Speaker 3: level analysis to understand that it's not black and white,
9:16
Speaker 3: it's not all or nothing, it's not as simplistic. There's
9:18
Speaker 3: a lot happening, and the internal conflicts that even all
9:21
Speaker 3: of us feel and so fiercely try to navigate when
9:24
Speaker 3: you're dealing with constant crises and a constant sense of
9:28
Speaker 3: urgency and your basic needs are not readily available. I mean,
9:33
Speaker 3: it is the internal conflicts and the amount of suppression
9:36
Speaker 3: just for survival sakes is intense, and so coming as
9:40
Speaker 3: an outsider and just being like, oh my gosh, just
9:42
Speaker 3: do this, or get your grades up, or why are
9:44
Speaker 3: you not turning that in? You're missing the boat with
9:47
Speaker 3: all the different decisions and emotional regulation that goes into
9:50
Speaker 3: sometimes just getting.
9:51
Speaker 2: Through the hour.
9:54
Speaker 1: Let me just remind everyone, speaking with Liam Morone, the
9:56
Speaker 1: book is called Serial Fixer, Break Free from the habit
9:59
Speaker 1: of solving other people's problems. Part of me wants to say,
10:04
Speaker 1: good luck with that. So many of us want to
10:07
Speaker 1: do that, all right, So let's just get clear here.
10:11
Speaker 1: When is the book out.
10:13
Speaker 3: The book comes out November eleventh. Okay, gosh, we're a
10:17
Speaker 3: week away.
10:18
Speaker 1: Okay, book comes out November eleventh. Why this book? What
10:24
Speaker 1: was the impetus the inspiration for writing us?
10:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was I think it was seeing
10:31
Speaker 3: through my clinical practice, through just other things that I
10:34
Speaker 3: was doing with groups and teams. Just you know, we're
10:36
Speaker 3: beyond kind of the band aids when it comes to
10:39
Speaker 3: burnout and compassion fatigue. We can all kind of re
10:42
Speaker 3: reiterate and regenerate kind of these are the symptoms, this
10:46
Speaker 3: is what's happening. I really wanted to get, you know,
10:48
Speaker 3: to the psychology and the lower levels of you know,
10:52
Speaker 3: we know we need to maybe set these boundaries turn
10:54
Speaker 3: off our computer at this time. You know, we know
10:57
Speaker 3: that we need to say no, But it's really you know,
11:00
Speaker 3: these things sound all logically sound and wonderful, but when
11:04
Speaker 3: it's time to execute, it's really about the internal conflicts
11:08
Speaker 3: that critic within us, that is fueling a very rigid
11:11
Speaker 3: association that if we aren't available, if we don't do this,
11:14
Speaker 3: if we don't answer this email at ten thirty pm,
11:17
Speaker 3: what if then we're categorized negatively?
11:19
Speaker 2: What if our team doesn't think that we're passionate enough.
11:22
Speaker 3: What if our child is in distress and we as
11:24
Speaker 3: a parent can't solve that and be five steps ahead?
11:27
Speaker 3: What does that say about us as a parent. And
11:29
Speaker 3: so I really was delving into the dynamics of our relationships,
11:33
Speaker 3: the dynamics of how we enter conversations and how if
11:37
Speaker 3: we enter as this solver, this fixer and prematurely jump
11:40
Speaker 3: ahead and give advice and just step by step again
11:44
Speaker 3: prematurely relate, we are fueling again this source that is
11:50
Speaker 3: continuously burning us out and exhausting us. And I found
11:54
Speaker 3: that highly empathetic people are working so hard to get
11:59
Speaker 3: you know, very close in relationships, to build intimacy, and
12:03
Speaker 3: they were working so hard and fueling these imbalances, and
12:07
Speaker 3: it was confusing, Why are people taking advantage? Why am
12:10
Speaker 3: I able to do this? Why am I always exhausted?
12:13
Speaker 3: And it was let's approach and kind of look at
12:16
Speaker 3: the role that you're placing yourself in in relationships and conversations,
12:21
Speaker 3: in your personal life and your private life, and let's
12:24
Speaker 3: reconfigure this a bit to really fuel our sense of
12:27
Speaker 3: balance and internally and externally.
12:31
Speaker 1: So the name serial fixure that talks about like, for example,
12:37
Speaker 1: me fixing myself, trying to fix trying to fix situations,
12:43
Speaker 1: or me fixing other people or both.
12:46
Speaker 2: But yeah, you nailed it.
12:47
Speaker 3: I mean, you're in this serial fixing pattern where you're
12:50
Speaker 3: trying to fix other people, other situations, emotions, and a
12:55
Speaker 3: lot of times using the distraction of finding your sense
12:58
Speaker 3: of purpose, and you're solely externally like if I'm worthy,
13:03
Speaker 3: if I can fix this, if people crate see, I'm
13:05
Speaker 3: a good person, I'm a good parent, I'm a good friend.
13:08
Speaker 3: And really that kind of you know, puts a stop
13:11
Speaker 3: to the internal work and the internal you know, yeah,
13:15
Speaker 3: just what we need to do internally because it's consistently
13:18
Speaker 3: seeking that external validation for a sense of work.
13:21
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, So getting more specific, what what What am
13:26
Speaker 1: I shutting down when I'm trying to fix, when I'm
13:30
Speaker 1: trying to what when I'm constantly worried about whether or
13:34
Speaker 1: not I'm a good parent or et cetera, et cetera.
13:38
Speaker 1: What am I shutting down with myself?
13:40
Speaker 3: Yeah?
13:40
Speaker 2: It really is.
13:41
Speaker 3: I mean I go into a lot you know, of
13:43
Speaker 3: the internal the internal rescue within us, the internal critic,
13:47
Speaker 3: the the inner pleaser, and how these parts of us,
13:50
Speaker 3: you know, if you look at internal family systems model,
13:52
Speaker 3: they're really you know, pulling out that these are protective
13:55
Speaker 3: parts of us, right, These are parts of us that
13:57
Speaker 3: come in very strong, tend to give us ten bodyguards
14:00
Speaker 3: when we just need one, and they operate with rigidity.
14:04
Speaker 3: So they are constantly you know, feeding us these false
14:07
Speaker 3: narratives or these futuristic you know scenarios where it's like
14:10
Speaker 3: if you aren't available, if you don't overextend, if you
14:14
Speaker 3: don't act and be five steps ahead, chaos will happen.
14:18
Speaker 2: People won't like you, You're not going to be worthy
14:21
Speaker 2: of X, Y.
14:21
Speaker 3: And Z, And so it really is trying to not
14:25
Speaker 3: suppress these parts which I fell victim to for years,
14:29
Speaker 3: just with perfectionistic tendencies, but it's more so aligning. It's
14:34
Speaker 3: more so understanding what these parts are trying to protect
14:36
Speaker 3: us from and beginning to soothe and work with them,
14:40
Speaker 3: rather than I think this is you know, what we're
14:42
Speaker 3: kind of conditioned to do as kids of just don't
14:44
Speaker 3: worry about it, just work hard, just smile. And it's
14:48
Speaker 3: a whole nother flip to get those internal parts in
14:51
Speaker 3: alignment so that we can have a balance, a better
14:54
Speaker 3: relationship with us and then better relationships with others.
14:57
Speaker 1: One of the optacles seems to be, I mean, the
15:02
Speaker 1: culture in which we're living seems to play against or
15:05
Speaker 1: feed into this. Talk about that a.
15:07
Speaker 2: Little bit absolutely.
15:09
Speaker 3: I mean I just think, you know, there is this
15:12
Speaker 3: constant loop and this cultural component of just always being
15:17
Speaker 3: on right and just trying to be ahead, be you know,
15:21
Speaker 3: with the sense of urgency. And I think one thing
15:23
Speaker 3: that I've really tried to not only live by but
15:26
Speaker 3: share with people I work with is, you know, self
15:29
Speaker 3: care is like anything else, it requires consistency. It's not
15:33
Speaker 3: these lavish, you know, pockets here and there where you
15:36
Speaker 3: you know, are multitasking. Even when it comes to self care,
15:39
Speaker 3: it's about consistently checking in. It's about consistently capitalizing on
15:44
Speaker 3: the dozens of transitions we have throughout the day, when
15:47
Speaker 3: we change locations, walk from one room to the next,
15:50
Speaker 3: go from one meeting to the next. We're we're cluttering this,
15:54
Speaker 3: we're consuming, we're looking at news updates, we're checking email,
15:57
Speaker 3: we're doing this. We're not taking advantage of these ten
16:01
Speaker 3: second breaks, these five minute breaks at stoplights to just
16:05
Speaker 3: regroup and practice getting in shape with being present. And
16:10
Speaker 3: you can see that when we want to access that,
16:12
Speaker 3: when we want to go to sleep, when we want
16:14
Speaker 3: to be present with our friends or have a vacation,
16:17
Speaker 3: we're out of shape with that. And I think that's
16:20
Speaker 3: another thing that's just we're disconnected. And so I really
16:24
Speaker 3: really try to emphasize and reframe that self care is
16:27
Speaker 3: really getting in shape emotionally and mentally.
16:30
Speaker 1: How did you come up with this approach is self fixing?
16:39
Speaker 1: I mean, because it sounds like what you're talking here
16:43
Speaker 1: a lot about is kind of what reacquainting yourself with
16:48
Speaker 1: yourself with the importance of that, or understanding what it
16:55
Speaker 1: means to be authentic. How did you come at it
16:58
Speaker 1: from this angle?
17:00
Speaker 2: Yeah?
17:01
Speaker 3: Ooh, you know, I think it was we needed. I
17:06
Speaker 3: just felt like a framework, something simple would how would help.
17:09
Speaker 3: But it's also it's not just this tagline like it
17:13
Speaker 3: requires like anything of meaning, this work, and it's in
17:17
Speaker 3: order to fix what's out here thinks right fix or
17:21
Speaker 3: to to support, we have to do the work in here.
17:24
Speaker 3: And you know, culturally, speaking back to that, we're so
17:28
Speaker 3: I think attracted to quick fixes. We're so attracted to ooh,
17:32
Speaker 3: I just do this. I don't have to do the
17:34
Speaker 3: eighteen steps in between. And I really have tried to simplify, reframe,
17:39
Speaker 3: and really normalize for people.
17:41
Speaker 2: You're not alone.
17:42
Speaker 3: This is a thing that I'm seeing consistently and that
17:45
Speaker 3: I've had to work very hard at, and it requires
17:47
Speaker 3: a different skill set and patience. But you can see
17:50
Speaker 3: that you're not then leaving conversations and interactions with a
17:53
Speaker 3: huge boulder on your back and leaving little space for you.
17:58
Speaker 1: So when you decided to write this book, who did
18:04
Speaker 1: you want to write it for? Who's it for?
18:07
Speaker 2: Yeah?
18:08
Speaker 3: And this is it's so funny because I got a
18:10
Speaker 3: little bit of flak for this because you know, it's
18:13
Speaker 3: almost like when you're doing something like writing a book speaking,
18:17
Speaker 3: you know, doing something like that. It's like people always
18:18
Speaker 3: want to know who's your target audience, right who's your
18:21
Speaker 3: target audience? And rightfully so, and I really guy. I
18:24
Speaker 3: pushed back on this a bit because my target audience
18:29
Speaker 3: I got laughed at it first. But my target audience
18:31
Speaker 3: is humans, and it to be someone. It could be
18:35
Speaker 3: someone neck deep in the tech world. It could be
18:36
Speaker 3: a stay at home parent, it could be a CEO,
18:39
Speaker 3: it could be an athlete. But I really wanted to
18:41
Speaker 3: write something that people people humans can all relate to
18:47
Speaker 3: and we're all starting from different places. But I really
18:50
Speaker 3: wanted the person who didn't maybe have any framework with this,
18:54
Speaker 3: that didn't have much know how and connection and the
18:57
Speaker 3: words to use.
18:58
Speaker 2: I wanted them to be able to pick it up
19:00
Speaker 2: up and have.
19:00
Speaker 3: Somewhere to start. So, you know, it's not necessarily for clinicians.
19:04
Speaker 3: I think new clinicians this would be great for. But
19:07
Speaker 3: I do think it's for our clients. It's for our friends,
19:10
Speaker 3: it's for our parents, it's for people that are finding
19:12
Speaker 3: themselves in this cyclical pattern of exhaustion and they're just
19:17
Speaker 3: relationally needing some tweaks.
19:20
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And along with that, what did you want
19:25
Speaker 1: to communicate to humans through the book.
19:29
Speaker 3: Yes, I wanted to communicate like the importance of the
19:33
Speaker 3: internal work. I wanted to communicate the importance of self
19:37
Speaker 3: awareness and not self awareness, of engaging in every single thought.
19:41
Speaker 2: Or emotion that we have. It's about having.
19:45
Speaker 3: The tools and the frameworks and the push and normalization
19:49
Speaker 3: of the first steps to do some very deep but
19:53
Speaker 3: yet doable internal work so that we are not just
19:57
Speaker 3: living reactively, we have the skills that we can start
20:01
Speaker 3: to build to live proactively.
20:05
Speaker 1: Again. I'm thinking for myself, it's so hard. You know.
20:10
Speaker 1: I'm someone who is like you know, looking looking at
20:15
Speaker 1: my phone, looking at my news app all the time.
20:19
Speaker 1: I can't imagine like shutting that down and not being informed.
20:26
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm caught. Help me, Leah, help me.
20:32
Speaker 2: So here here's the trick, I think. And again, this
20:36
Speaker 2: is not easy.
20:36
Speaker 3: This takes repetitions and you know, building that intrinsic trust,
20:41
Speaker 3: if you will. But something that's helped me immensely is
20:43
Speaker 3: you know, really, I think I was living life through
20:46
Speaker 3: like a black or white filter, like it was just
20:48
Speaker 3: all or nothing. It was I have to be completely
20:51
Speaker 3: up to date on everything. The news is spitting out
20:53
Speaker 3: at all hours. I don't want to fall behind. But
20:56
Speaker 3: then the other side is like, well, just disconnecting completely,
20:59
Speaker 3: and those are to aggravate different parts of me for
21:01
Speaker 3: different reasons, and so a lot of times I'll try
21:04
Speaker 3: to operate with Leo, find the gray zone, try to
21:07
Speaker 3: be your internal mediator and know what one part of you,
21:10
Speaker 3: the part that wants to shut everything down and kind
21:12
Speaker 3: of just live in a hole because it's just too much,
21:15
Speaker 3: and the other part that's like, no, then you're not
21:17
Speaker 3: being like a citizen that is, you know, staying aware
21:20
Speaker 3: and knowing, and you're going to be You're going to
21:22
Speaker 3: lose touch. And so I think it's really understanding what
21:24
Speaker 3: both of those parts are motivated by what they're trying
21:27
Speaker 3: to protect, and it's kind of in a weird way.
21:29
Speaker 3: I try to like perform almost these mini experiments with myself.
21:33
Speaker 2: I try to say, you.
21:34
Speaker 3: Know, it's really triggering for me to out of the
21:37
Speaker 3: gate when I get up before I even brush my teeth.
21:39
Speaker 2: To like have the whole run down with the news.
21:41
Speaker 2: That's not great for me. It doesn't start me.
21:43
Speaker 3: It doesn't It's like you know, getting out of bed
21:45
Speaker 3: and sprinting up my street without any type of warm up.
21:48
Speaker 3: And so I've really then said, you know what, I
21:50
Speaker 3: want to keep up to this, up to date, but
21:53
Speaker 3: I'm going to change when I look at this. I'm
21:55
Speaker 3: going to do some things for myself first and I'm
21:58
Speaker 3: going to switch this up. And I think just experimenting
22:01
Speaker 3: a bit and setting these little, you know, experiments and
22:05
Speaker 3: boundaries with yourself to see how the different parts of
22:07
Speaker 3: you respond and finding that gray zone is a very
22:11
Speaker 3: helpful and safe and approachable way to setting those internal boundaries.
22:17
Speaker 1: How did you organize the book?
22:20
Speaker 3: So I started off with, you know, really talking about
22:23
Speaker 3: what is serial fixing, right, you know, different kind of
22:26
Speaker 3: parts of it, where it comes, you know how, what
22:28
Speaker 3: I'm noticing and really just talking about that, and then
22:32
Speaker 3: it is a lot of the second part is that
22:33
Speaker 3: internal work. I go through really the psychology and the
22:36
Speaker 3: different dynamics and pull from a lot of internal systems,
22:39
Speaker 3: internal family systems model with our inner pleasers, our inner
22:42
Speaker 3: critics are inner rescuers and those internal conflicts and how
22:45
Speaker 3: to start to make peace and recalibrate yourself internally. And
22:51
Speaker 3: then noticing and I go through client case examples. I
22:54
Speaker 3: have different stories that I use where I think a
22:56
Speaker 3: lot of people hopefully can relate. And then the third
22:59
Speaker 3: part is when I really jump into the framework, the
23:02
Speaker 3: external boundaries and that support don't solve while you're still
23:05
Speaker 3: leading with empathy and compassion, but you're empowering and moving
23:08
Speaker 3: away from this like compassion disguised as control.
23:13
Speaker 1: How I'm curious how this has changed the way you
23:17
Speaker 1: work with clients.
23:21
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I think a lot of it is again
23:24
Speaker 3: trying to use my own framework of when you know,
23:28
Speaker 3: you hear a client and you immediately go into I
23:31
Speaker 3: know exactly what you should do, I know exactly what
23:34
Speaker 3: you should do. It's it's more so starting with that
23:37
Speaker 3: validation as we're taught. It's, you know, it's either you
23:40
Speaker 3: can turn right and you can start sharing like oh,
23:43
Speaker 3: we'll do this, this and this or this is what
23:45
Speaker 3: you do, or just say no, or you can turn
23:48
Speaker 3: left and kind of almost come into that space creator
23:52
Speaker 3: mode where you validate and you let that client know
23:55
Speaker 3: that or that person know I'm working hard to try
23:58
Speaker 3: to understand the message that you sharing with me verbally
24:01
Speaker 3: or nonverbally, and I'm you know, going to maybe paraphrase
24:04
Speaker 3: so you can hear your story your words back to
24:08
Speaker 3: you that might kick you into a gear that's different
24:10
Speaker 3: than you've had. I'm going to validate and empathize with
24:13
Speaker 3: like WHOA, yeah, no, I can see why your stress
24:16
Speaker 3: levels have kicked up this week. Starting there prevents you
24:20
Speaker 3: and kind of moves you into that supporter rather.
24:23
Speaker 2: Than that solver.
24:25
Speaker 3: And then you can start to once you've aligned yourself
24:27
Speaker 3: and you're working collaboratively, that's when you can again start
24:30
Speaker 3: to ask those questions of like, you know, what do
24:33
Speaker 3: you feel like your options are at this point?
24:35
Speaker 2: Or you know, have you.
24:36
Speaker 3: Felt this before? And that's when it kind of goes
24:38
Speaker 3: in just you know, clinically speaking, you're into the therapy mode,
24:41
Speaker 3: but that validation with anyone is the first step.
24:46
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I'm thinking, you know, in what way
24:52
Speaker 1: your model shows up differently when you're talking to a
24:57
Speaker 1: client as opposed of when you're doing with yourself. M right,
25:03
Speaker 1: Because I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit
25:05
Speaker 1: about that.
25:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think too. It's really it is practicing
25:12
Speaker 3: that self validation as well. And what I mean by
25:15
Speaker 3: that is it's when you are feeling something. I know,
25:19
Speaker 3: for me, I had such a tendency to when I
25:21
Speaker 3: felt something negative to try to immediately distract myself. I
25:26
Speaker 3: had a layer of criticism of like, what the hell's
25:28
Speaker 3: wrong with me? Am I always going to feel this?
25:30
Speaker 3: Like I with.
25:31
Speaker 2: What's going on?
25:31
Speaker 3: I do every I feel like I'm doing everything right.
25:33
Speaker 3: Why am I feeling this? You know, it would go
25:35
Speaker 3: into this like very just it wasn't helpful, And so
25:38
Speaker 3: I think it is first and foremost. You know, we're
25:40
Speaker 3: taught when we do self check ins, when we're collecting
25:43
Speaker 3: our own data. It starts with kind of validating and
25:46
Speaker 3: really labeling sometimes that feeling like I'm feeling anxious today.
25:50
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean like I'm going to feel anxious for
25:52
Speaker 3: the rest of the week or.
25:53
Speaker 2: The month, but yeah, feeling some anxiety today.
25:56
Speaker 3: This is not pleasant, This is uncomfortable, This is an ideal,
25:59
Speaker 3: But like, this is where it starts. And then when
26:01
Speaker 3: you start to label, understand and validate that this is
26:04
Speaker 3: where you're at, whether you like it or not, it
26:06
Speaker 3: does it really kind of chisels away that power and
26:10
Speaker 3: gives you that foundational level to begin to add some solutions, uh,
26:15
Speaker 3: you know, solution focused or even some logic into that
26:18
Speaker 3: emotion that you're you're experiencing.
26:20
Speaker 1: Do you feel that this book is kind of asking
26:27
Speaker 1: us to again. It almost feels like we're war with
26:34
Speaker 1: our with the culture, with the with the stimuli, the
26:38
Speaker 1: the incredible fire hose of stimuli that will received all
26:42
Speaker 1: of us are receiving on a day to day basis,
26:44
Speaker 1: and your book is asking us to what, take a moment,
26:52
Speaker 1: what what in the face of the culture we're along with.
26:55
Speaker 1: I don't want to set up this duality in a sense,
26:58
Speaker 1: but how do you view you your book in relationship
27:03
Speaker 1: to our culture?
27:05
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, I think it is.
27:07
Speaker 3: It's really trying to understand how can I meet myself
27:11
Speaker 3: in the middle, how I'm living in extremes. I'm discovering
27:16
Speaker 3: these patterns with myself. These are my vices, this is
27:19
Speaker 3: my pacifier, this is my band aid?
27:22
Speaker 2: And is this actually helping me?
27:24
Speaker 3: Or?
27:24
Speaker 2: Also?
27:25
Speaker 3: What am I not wanting to confront? What am I
27:28
Speaker 3: you know, not wanting.
27:29
Speaker 2: To step into?
27:30
Speaker 3: And I do think, you know, that's when we can
27:32
Speaker 3: get support and access our ability to be resourceful. But
27:36
Speaker 3: you're absolutely right, I'm not, you know, subscribing or wanting
27:39
Speaker 3: everyone to subscribe to this like oh, just omit everything
27:42
Speaker 3: and just beletally mindful, because that's not realistic. Right, it's
27:47
Speaker 3: understanding are you clearing? Are you just like clearing your
27:52
Speaker 3: clutter or are you constantly adding to it and giving
27:56
Speaker 3: yourself time to let air out of your balloon? And
27:59
Speaker 3: if not, why what are you running from? What are
28:02
Speaker 3: you trying to protect?
28:04
Speaker 1: Right? Oh boy, amazing questions? Really all right? The book
28:10
Speaker 1: is called Serial Fixer, Break Free from the Habit of
28:12
Speaker 1: solving other people's problems? Liam Moron, Leah, how do people
28:16
Speaker 1: learn more about you what you're doing in the book?
28:19
Speaker 1: Et cetera.
28:20
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, thank you. My I mean you can
28:23
Speaker 3: find me. My website is liamarone dot com. I'm on
28:25
Speaker 3: social media platforms. You can purchase the book really wherever
28:29
Speaker 3: you like to purchase books. It's you know, Amazon, Target Bookshop,
28:33
Speaker 3: Barnes and Noble. And if you do, you know, I'd
28:37
Speaker 3: love to hear from you. So just even if you
28:39
Speaker 3: have serial fixing tendencies, I have a substat going where
28:43
Speaker 3: I'm writing about different types of serial fixers and people
28:46
Speaker 3: are writing into me, and of course it's confidential, but
28:49
Speaker 3: kind of sharing and opening up this conversation. So you
28:52
Speaker 3: can find me a lot of places, and I'd love
28:54
Speaker 3: to hear from you.
28:55
Speaker 1: Awesome. We'll have all that linked up here at the
28:57
Speaker 1: show notes page at the Trauma Therapist cast dot com.
29:01
Speaker 1: Leah love to have you back at a later date.
29:04
Speaker 1: I'm excited to get help you get this book out there.
29:06
Speaker 1: And thanks so much for joining me today.
29:09
Speaker 2: Oh thanks for creating space.
29:10
Speaker 1: It's awesome, all right. Take care,