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Discovering Bitcoin with Susie ₿ · Discovering Bitcoin

0:00
Most people don't remember the first time they heard of
0:03
Bitcoin, but they do remember discovering it in the moment
0:07
that it made sense. That quiet click hard lock is
0:13
for that phase when you're done with the hype and you just want
0:17
a simple honest way to stack stats with flat fees, no tricks.
0:23
Learnmore@learn.hardlock.com dot.
0:27
AU. I see the world through an
0:29
entirely different lens. It doesn't just give you
0:33
confidence, but it gives you. Hope.
0:37
Take like we're wandering our energy, our life force.
0:40
So Bitcoin is changing that. For me, it's like it's healing
0:45
energy. It gives you a kind of office
0:49
then feeling right. Deep and deep and deep in the
0:56
immortal words of the doors, the time to hesitate us through.
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Susie, how's it going? Yes.
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Just great. I'm excited to be able to
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finally talk to you. Yeah, it's, this has been a long
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time coming for me. Actually.
1:40
I've been around the block on Bitcoin Twitter for a little
1:43
while and you know, we not necessarily have had too many
1:52
interactions. But if you remember a meme that
1:57
went around a little while ago where like there was sort of
2:01
some famous Bitcoin Twitter celebrities that were repurposed
2:08
as females. If you recall.
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And you posted it again back a couple of years ago with sailor
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and, and the sailor image where he looks like a like a really
2:25
intense like Karen. And then that reminded me of the
2:30
huddle meme. If you remember when it was a
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band from BTC sessions posted their leather jackets.
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I think I can't remember who that who was initiated.
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That might have been Nick Carter, but anyway, I was just
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going back through some of our interactions using the ever
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trusty, perfectly forever memory of Grok and China.
2:55
Yes. So, yeah, that was sort of my
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first. So I I have been in Bitcoin
3:01
since 2018, but really didn't get active on Bitcoin Twitter
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until 2021. There you go and so and I
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quickly was drive sort of a quirky sense of humor was drawn
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to memes. I, I really, you know, I'd seen
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memes, but I'd never seen Bitcoin memes.
3:19
And so I started making memes and I think maybe four or five
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months into my activity on Bitcoin Twitter, there was a
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bunch of sort of talk about we need more women in Bitcoin.
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We need more women in Bitcoin. And so that's how I conceived,
3:34
you know, turning all of these Bitcoin celebrities into women.
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And we have enough women in Bitcoin it.
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Was it was hilarious. Some of them are eerily like
3:47
attractive and you're like, hang on.
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No, no, no, wait. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I did find
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some people were, you know, disturbed at how attractive they
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were to some of the podcaster. I think Matt Odell was
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particularly. Fetching.
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Disconcerting for people. Oh man, well let me ask the
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question, how did you discover Bitcoin?
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So my story is, is that I have four children and my oldest, who
4:20
will be 23 soon, started. I mean, it was sort of, I
4:24
believe 2016 that he started telling me, Mom, you should buy
4:29
Bitcoin. This is, you know, it's cool.
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And he would, and I mean, he, he was 15 at the time.
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And I just made, you know, it was not something I was
4:38
interested in. It was not, I definitely believe
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the things I read. I think I was a savvy investor
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and other things. So it just to me, Bitcoin was
4:50
for criminals, it was for criminal activity.
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It was a Ponzi scheme. It was, you know, all these
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things. And I had no interest.
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I couldn't conceive of the value and of course I did not spend
5:03
one minute studying it. You know, I just believed what I
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heard. By 2018, he really became sort
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of insistent that I buy some and eventually put an app on my
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phone. It was, I keep saying this, I've
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said this on other podcast. I actually don't know if this
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app is still around. Coin Mama is the app he put on.
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And finally, just to sort of quiet him down, I think I
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purchased the first time. That was another thing I didn't
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realize you can just buy $5.00 of Bitcoin.
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And I think I started with like $5.
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And then for the next three years, it was really sort of my,
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you know, coin jar in the corner.
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And if I didn't get coffee that week or I would just throw
5:48
whatever at it, you know, here and there.
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And then it was in 2021 when I was working on a patient, we had
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T VS on our ceiling and I saw that Tesla was buying Bitcoin
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and putting in the treasury and that and that, you know, that
6:08
they were going to accept Bitcoin as being for purchases.
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And I thought, oh, wow, you know, and again, it was
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something that I really did not track.
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I didn't even know how much I had.
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But I remember after that patient was like, oh, I should
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go see like, and true enough, I was like, oh, my little slush,
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you know, garbage fund here is worth something now.
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And so and yeah, that really got me interested to start studying
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Bitcoin. I did when I say study that was
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watching YouTube at the time, which then had me go full shit
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coiner because of course, yes, I followed the the, you know, the
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path of Oh, well, if this happened with Bitcoin, what's
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the next Bitcoin? Yeah.
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So look, that's, that's some logic there.
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Totally, Yeah. It, it really is.
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You think, oh, I, I happen to come across this, then you know,
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I can come across the next one. And so I did.
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I I invested in all kinds of garbage and did quite well for a
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while in 2021. And so it wasn't until I then
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started getting active on Twitter, more crypto Twitter
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than Bitcoin Twitter. And it was a toxic Bitcoin maxi
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who I was sort of saying like, you know how great this shit
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coin was and this and he just called me out and said, you're
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an idiot. You know, it's Bitcoin only.
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And I was just, you know, like, how dare you?
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Of course I know what I'm doing. Look at how much money I've
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made. I've done this and that.
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And he was like, tell me one Bitcoin book that you've read.
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And I honestly, you know, I hadn't read 1.
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And it for me, whenever people attack Bitcoin Maxis and say,
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you know, they're just doing it wrong, They're too mean, they're
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too harsh. There's two that's I I'll push
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back because for myself, I'd had so many people say, oh, you
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should read this book. You should read the Bitcoin
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standard. That didn't work.
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But to attack my ego and you don't know what you're talking
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about and you're an idiot. That was exactly what I needed
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to go and get the book that day. I read the Bitcoin standard and
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it was immediate light bulb and oh, I am an idiot.
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And I, I did at that point, I sold all my shit coins,
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including ETH and which, you know, I thought, oh, that was
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going to be the next Bitcoin and put it all in Bitcoin and, you
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know, wrote it down the next into 2022.
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Kept buying. I, I still buy weekly to this
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day. And I, I, I often think, gosh,
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when I look back at those shit coins I had, I mean, I would
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have lost everything. I mean, I think most of them are
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down, you know, 99 point something percent.
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And whereas, you know, I ride the waves now and I'm really
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kind of price agnostic. I do get excited still when we
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have pumps. But you know, I just for me it's
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a, it's a long term play and you know, I believe Bitcoin's for
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everyone and it is the way out of the system, the Fiat system.
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That's so great. Like it makes total sense that
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you know you would look and entertain the idea of shit
9:36
coins. Most people do.
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They go through EU turn and it sounds like that Maxi was
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literally living out that meme of the soldier that is sort of
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protecting the the sleeping kid in the bed as all these shit
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coins rain down on them and is standing at the head of the bed
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protecting the the kid. Absolutely, absolutely.
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And it didn't. It wasn't until because at first
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I thought I also like it. It's not my, my MO generally to
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be, you know, very toxic with people when I'm trying to
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explain Bitcoin, but I it what I quickly saw is that, oh, all
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these all of my should coiner friends, all these altcoin, you
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know, we're always trying to convince me to buy their, you
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know, and why and why it was this and superior to Bitcoin.
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And they were always trying to convince me, never trying to
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educate me, Whereas what I found is that all these Maxis were
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simply trying to get me to educate myself.
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Like none of them ever said, you know, Oh, you have to buy it
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because you know, well, it would be like if you read this, if you
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read the creature from Jekyll Allen, if you, you know,
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whatever they were asking me to read, it was always educate
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yourself. So you so it will, you know,
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incentivize me to come to the decision to buy it, which I
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appreciate that. I think it was.
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It is trying to protect but not coerce.
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Such a important distinction and it kind of gets overlooked quite
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a lot. It's just that, yeah, education
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and Bitcoiners will try and educate first.
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They they're not trying to market anything.
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They're not trying to persuade you of anything.
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They're just saying here, look, go read these things or go watch
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these things or go listen to this thing, right?
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Or let me. You know, one of exactly or one
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of the ones I like is, you know, for my Uber drivers or, or the
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bartender I'm tipping is, you know, hey, what do you know
11:38
about Bitcoin? Can I, you want me to send you
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some of your first stats, you know, let me show you how to do
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this and how easy it is. And again, it's just education.
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And if they get rid of it immediately, Oh well.
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But it I always hope that it, you know, just sparks enough
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that they want to educate themselves.
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Yeah, and I got to say what a cool mom to actually number one,
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listen to your son, you know, and and then like dive full on
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deep and, and start creating memes and, and, and just really
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kind of lean in, lock in almost to the to the whole space.
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It's it's phenomenal. It's it's really cool to see.
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And so you obviously then sold all these shit coins and went
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Bitcoin only, and I haven't really looked back.
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Yeah, yeah, so and I've never gotten into any other shit
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coins. My the son who convinced me to
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buy Bitcoin actually went like full like NFP and that garbage
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and has come back around to Bitcoin.
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Did you get to put fun at him a little bit?
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Yes, thank goodness because he would never let me live down
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that, you know, I owe, you know, our retirement and everything
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else that can convincing me to buy Bitcoin to begin with.
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But it yeah, I mean, I just feel thankful for the journey that,
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you know, it hasn't just been learning about financial systems
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and the economy and, you know, global economy and macro and all
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these things. Like it's led me down so many
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other pathways with Bitcoin opening my eyes to the way
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things work to opening my eyes and in so many other ways,
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including, you know, my profession with COVID, with the
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vaccine, like so many other things, it I realized that I
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wasn't a critical thinker and learning about Bitcoin really
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helped me in in that way. Well, in that's a curious point.
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I think like you weren't, you said you weren't a critical
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thinker. That's it's enabled you.
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I think maybe it was just the switch that need to be like, I
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think everybody is a critical thinker, but maybe there's this
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not the incentive there to flip that switch.
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And so you can kind of just, you know, do you think and not
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really overthink everything and and you can sort of reasonably
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get by. I think more than reasonably get
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by, I think me being very, you know, sort of dutiful to my
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education, to the system to, you know, I mean, but my husband and
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I had an incredibly successful dental practice sort of
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listening and being this, you know, obedient to the system,
14:30
you know, human being worked out really well for us until again,
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seeing ways that it wasn't helping everyone.
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And again, it was learning about the financial system that helped
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open my eyes to that. And, you know, and then it
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really I realized even things with the practice of dentistry,
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like me pushing fluoride, I just believed what what I was told in
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school. I did that for 26 years and it
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wasn't until, oh wait, I've never, I've never really delved
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deeper into what I learned in school.
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And once I did, I was horrified. It was like, I can't believe
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I've been telling people to ingest this.
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It's horrible. It's not at all what we were
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taught in school. Fluoride maxing it's yeah, I
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mean, I had a dentist who recommended that I'd, I'd use
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this particular toothpaste, which has like an insane amount
15:35
of fluoride in it. And it was, it was based on my
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gig at the time and what I used to do.
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And I used to taste and drink a lot of wine.
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And you know that that's horrible for you to eat.
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Like your enamel just is overly acidity.
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And so like, yeah, you should use this.
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And I'm, I'm using it. And yeah, once you, once you
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unpack that whole, this stuff is pure garbage for you and really
16:07
quite harmful. Well, flips it on its head.
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What was alarming to me? So it's, you know, I mean, I'm
16:15
not completely anti fluoride. If if you're using it topically
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on your teeth and you spit it out and you're mostly not
16:21
ingesting it, the average person, it's not going to cause
16:24
harm. On the other hand, fluoridated
16:26
water, which we recommended to children and adults, and you
16:30
know that Oh yes, you should absolutely drink fluoridated.
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The. Fluoride in water is not
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pharmaceutical grade fluoride like you would apply topically
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on your teeth. It is literally a toxic waste.
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That's the byproduct productive fertilizer production and that's
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the garbage they're putting in water.
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And but then, you know, again, even as the professional went to
16:54
dental school, like we weren't told that that was different
16:57
fluoride and or that ingesting it, you know, we were told, oh,
17:00
it's, you know, a fraction of a part per million.
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It's not a big deal. So again, I think that Bitcoin
17:08
led me to want to, you know, I think be a little less trusting
17:13
and dig deeper into different subjects.
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Can we just maybe pull on that fluoride thread a little bit
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because I'm sure there's some listeners out there.
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I'd be curious to know a little bit more.
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And you obviously know your onions.
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So like what? What is you said it was a
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byproduct of of fertilizer production?
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Yes. Yes, which is a byproduct of
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bomb making, right? Yes, yeah.
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So and it was, it used to be extremely costly to get rid of
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this fluoricilic acid that's a byproduct and fertilizer
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production. So to dispose of that, they had
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these companies had to pay. So what they found is, oh, you
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know, if we can add it to the water because it breaks down to
18:00
fluoride and you know, fluoride and toothpaste and mouthwash is
18:04
beneficial to teeth, then we can sell it as that.
18:08
And, and, and really that's how it happened.
18:11
If you go online and and look at any time they're doing, there's
18:16
been several stories about if they spill this fluorosylic
18:19
acid, which is used to fluoridate water at any water
18:24
treatment facility, it it literally burns through the
18:26
concrete. Holy shit.
18:28
Wow, I don't even need that. Yes, yes, I mean it, it it's
18:32
extremely corrosive, extremely harmful.
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But if you hear any proponent, they will say, Oh well, but you
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know, you're getting it as you know, a fraction of a part per
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million. So it's like, well then then why
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ingest it at all? Like I don't want a little bit
18:48
of cyanide in like why? And I I don't believe there's
18:53
any positive effect. It's so funny that by the same
18:57
token, the the the minuscule parts per million when it comes
19:01
to homeopathic remedies, they get that gets derided like it.
19:05
Well, it's just it's such a tiny part per million.
19:07
They can't do anything. It's not going to do anything.
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It's like, well, it can't be both true, you know?
19:12
Exactly, exactly. Well, and I, I've discovered
19:15
that so many times with arguments now too.
19:18
You know, I think with COVID, I mean, I, my husband and I were
19:22
some of the being healthcare providers.
19:25
We were some of the first people who were vaccinated.
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We went on to get our, the ability to vaccinate people.
19:37
We, we, you know, what went through that whole thing so we
19:40
could vaccinate our patients. And it wasn't long after that,
19:44
that and, and our children had been vaccinated against
19:47
different things. And you know, like we, we, we
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were, we were not anti vax at all.
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And pretty maybe three to four months starting to see strange
19:57
things in our patient population.
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My son, who's incredibly healthy, was in a military
20:03
college, had to get vaccinated, broke out and shingle.
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You know, we were just seeing strange things and then we
20:11
weren't seeing COVID end. And you know, so it now I
20:16
wouldn't say I'm anti vax, but I'm very very vax hesitant.
20:21
And haven't taken a vaccine since that COVID by that first
20:24
COVID vaccine. Man, that that must have been an
20:27
absolute trip not to pivot too much away from the fluoride
20:32
thing because it's curious. Like as you said, it's no, no,
20:34
it's this is incredible. Like the whole notion of it
20:40
being like an armor, I suppose, for your teeth in, in small
20:43
amounts. Yeah.
20:44
I mean, in in Australia, I'm pretty sure we fluoridate our
20:47
water. I'm pretty certain we do.
20:50
The way I think about it in England, in the in the UKI don't
20:55
think they do. And so there's always this joke
20:58
of like that they've got really bad teeth, you know, and, and in
21:04
Australia and I think even in the US, you guys fluoridate your
21:07
water as well and tend to have like, you know, straighter
21:10
teeth, better teeth. And that's just like an old joke
21:13
that's played out in the culture.
21:16
But I always thought like, yeah, no, fluoride in the water is
21:20
great. Like, you know.
21:22
You buy you. Buy into it well, because you're
21:24
a kid as well. You're and you're an idiot.
21:26
Basically, you have no life experience, which is why it's
21:31
incumbent upon the parents to be you're educated.
21:36
But I mean, like, it's so difficult, man.
21:38
Like you're talking with the, with the COVID stuff.
21:40
It's like you just doing your duty, You're doing the
21:42
diligence, you're doing what you know, you've always done and,
21:46
and, and looking like care. You're just caring for your
21:50
patients. And next minute you're getting
21:53
the wool pulled over your eyes and you.
21:55
And at least at that point, I don't know whether it was
21:58
Bitcoin sort of, you know, poking at you at the same time
22:03
or whatever, but at least you sort of were sort of sitting
22:09
back on. OK, It's not really adding up
22:12
here anymore like. Yeah, I, I think what me
22:16
learning about Bitcoin and our financial systems made me
22:21
realize is that I really did not question things in my life.
22:27
Like for example, when I first started, you know, studying
22:30
about the economy and I really thought US, you know, central
22:35
banks, the Fed was a government entity, you know, here it was a
22:39
50 year old woman who owned a business, very successful, you
22:44
know, an investor. We had commercial properties and
22:48
I did not know that basic fact. And I thought, my gosh, you
22:54
know, so how much how many other things have I I never question
22:58
and I do not know, you know, I think other things like with,
23:04
you know, banking, just so many things I realized I just didn't
23:07
question and I went along because it worked for me.
23:10
And that really is what got me going down so many other
23:15
different rabbit holes. And you do that that whole idea
23:18
of that, Oh, you awake from the matrix.
23:20
And sometimes it, it, it's, you know, it's a little up ending
23:24
realizing that things I was taught things, I firmly believe
23:27
things that I did for my children, my patient population
23:31
were not the best for them. You know, it, it makes me
23:35
sometimes think, gosh, it, it is easier for the psyche to go back
23:38
and just eat the steak, right? Like enjoy the steak and don't
23:43
leave the matrix. But I, I, I am thankful to for
23:48
my eyes to be open. Yeah, it's it's a tricky it's a
23:54
tricky one when you de start defragging your brain and you
23:57
come to the realization that not only is the system existent
24:04
without you, as in it exists, you know, without you
24:08
individually or, you know, external to you, it's actually
24:15
a, a significant chunk of it is embodied by you.
24:19
It exists within you because you act it out.
24:21
You you participate in that, that arena, that field, you
24:27
know, you, you, you are kind of a part of it.
24:30
And that from a ego perspective, from a like just confronting
24:39
that consciously like that can spin people out, man.
24:43
And they're just sometimes not even ready for that and they'll
24:45
just shut it down. Like even you mentioned before
24:49
your son started talking about Bitcoin to you, you know, you
24:51
guys had your, your dental practice, you were investing in
24:55
commercial property, etcetera. Most people at that point would
24:58
be like, cool, the Internet, like the Bitcoin thing sounds
25:01
cool, mate. I'll, I'll, yeah, I'll look into
25:04
it for sure. Because the system is working
25:06
for you. But yet for some reason there
25:09
was something it was it was interesting enough you, you
25:13
obviously revealed your son enough and trusted your son
25:15
enough to take on some of his advice to, to start at least
25:18
looking at this thing. Most people in that situation,
25:21
when the system is already working for them and they're
25:23
enacting it out from within and from without, they just don't
25:27
even give Bitcoin a second look. Oh.
25:30
Absolutely. I mean, my friends who are, you
25:33
know, successful in one way or the other, those I find are the
25:39
generally the hardest people for me to try to orange Pell.
25:43
Because, you know, if I'll, if I say something like, you know,
25:46
well, look at the purchasing power of the dollar and how much
25:50
we've lost and, you know, or how much the Fed has printed.
25:53
And they'll be like, well, you know, it's worked out pretty
25:55
well for us, hasn't it? You know, that's sort of the
25:58
pushback I'll get. So it it, it is much easier to,
26:04
I think, get people to open their eyes when they aren't a
26:08
benefit of this, you know, behemoth system that really does
26:13
enslave us. Yeah, it sounds like you you've
26:17
almost, almost done a 180 and we we sort of talked about this off
26:20
air a little bit. But, and maybe I'll, I'll ask
26:24
the question now before we get into it, but just sort of, I
26:28
don't know. Well, I'm not going to frame it
26:30
up because that would be a shitty leading question.
26:32
Bitcoin doesn't announce itself. It reveals itself not in the
26:36
moment you buy, but in the moment you stop thinking of it
26:38
as a trade, start sensing it as a discovery.
26:43
This episode is supported by Hard Block, an Australian
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hardblock.com dot AU. How has discovering Bitcoin
27:27
changed you? Oh my goodness.
27:30
I mean in in every way. I think the biggest thing is
27:35
that for most of my adult life, it was just getting more
27:42
material success and, you know, being able to provide more for
27:47
our family and bigger and better things is was sort of our
27:50
driving purpose. And so from the time we started
27:55
in dentistry, we started with a little 3 operatory office and
28:01
then it grew into this behemoth, you know, 3 reiterations later,
28:05
as we got bigger and bigger, 16 operatory office with Dennis
28:09
working for us and it became this huge thing.
28:13
But we realized we had more material things, but we were
28:16
constantly chasing more material things.
28:19
And I wouldn't say our life was any better.
28:23
I mean, we had a gigantic almost 12,000 square foot house.
28:27
We were vacationing all the time.
28:29
My husband had the dream car he wanted, but we were a slave to
28:34
all of these things and constantly looking for the next
28:37
thing. So when I started to realize,
28:41
OK, we're at a position now that this was in 2022 that we could
28:51
step all away from this. If we, I mean, when I tell
28:55
people we retired and walked away from, you know, very large
28:59
incomes and these kind of things, they don't want to
29:03
mislead people. And for anyone to think that we
29:05
live the same sort of lifestyle that we did then we have
29:07
definitely downsized our life. We do live in paradise in
29:12
Hawaii, but we don't live in a mansion.
29:14
We don't drive fancy car, you know, none of these things.
29:18
But I think we have so much more peace and we we decide how to
29:25
spend our time instead, instead of how to spend our money.
29:29
That is definitely the shift I think that Bitcoin gave us.
29:32
And what we love is that we do still love dentistry.
29:35
We went to school for a long time to do this, but now we're
29:38
able to give back our skills in the way that we intended, which
29:43
is to help people rather than to make Fiat.
29:46
So we love that we're able to exchange our time for, you know,
29:52
for helping people rather than needing material things.
29:56
Yeah, it's that's the, the real luxury is time and how you
30:03
choose to spend it. Yes.
30:06
That's the luxury, you know, and because sometimes I mean, like
30:13
it's just it's, it's normal, it's natural, the material.
30:16
We live in a material epoch. This is this is kind of the jam.
30:19
This is what we're we're faced with there each and every day.
30:23
And and you mentioned yourself like, Yep, got all the things
30:26
ticking all the boxes. This, this is cool.
30:29
This is very cool, but there's something missing.
30:31
There's like a piece of the puzzle missing and it's kind of
30:34
hard to put your finger on. And it doesn't always have to
30:37
be, you know, well, I just got to like, you know, downsize
30:41
everything. I, I don't know, like it's
30:45
almost, it's almost like a humanity, like a, a human thing
30:51
to get to a certain point in your life and go cool, I've got
30:55
all the things. I'm at the top of the mountain.
30:56
This feels great. Is there another mountain to
30:59
climb? Can I get higher?
31:00
Can I get even higher? And ultimately you can get as
31:05
high as you like, but you'll always kind of reach back to
31:09
that plateau era. Like I sort of see things like
31:12
for instance, my car, I love my car.
31:15
It's the coolest car. I, I just it, it, it iterates in
31:20
so many different ways. We've had it for such a long
31:22
time, but I remember looking at it in the, in the, in the yard,
31:27
in the sale yard and just thinking, man, all the things I
31:30
could do with that car. And then I started doing them
31:33
and like I got the car, I started doing them and I was
31:36
constantly mindful of a kid. Don't let it plateau.
31:39
Because remember there was a time when you didn't have this
31:41
car and you thought it was the coolest thing and you could do
31:44
all these things. And are you doing all these
31:45
things? And I was consciously trying to,
31:50
to not let the car slip back into sort of an ungrateful
31:54
state, I guess is, is my point. Yeah.
31:58
And I, I feel like the, the, the culture basically pushes you to
32:05
get the thing. It's that whole, you know,
32:08
Rolling Stone song. I can't get no satisfaction.
32:11
Get the thing and you have it for a minute, you get a little
32:13
high and then you come back down, you know?
32:17
Well, I, I realized it too, though, it's because, like, for
32:20
example, when we were constantly working and building and, you
32:24
know, maybe having to make some time trade-offs and because we
32:29
were, you know, building this huge practice and in charge of
32:31
so many employees that the material things are kind of the
32:36
salve or reward for, OK, so it's a way to feed yourself that way.
32:44
But like you're saying, it only goes so far.
32:46
And then it's like, OK, well, I, I have the, you know, my husband
32:50
had his Aston Martin and, and he loved it.
32:53
But then it was after a while it was, well, I've had this for a
32:56
couple of years. What's the next thing?
32:59
Because he was continuing to work really, really hard and
33:01
having to go to take more classes, to take on more
33:04
patients to do this, to do that. And so I do think that a lot of
33:08
people, it's the material things are, you know, not that you get
33:12
this mindset of well, I deserve serve them because I'm
33:15
sacrificing in other ways. Whereas once you have freedom of
33:20
time, you really lose that, that I must have this or I must have
33:25
that. It's more, you know, what do I
33:28
really want to do? You're able to sort of get rid
33:31
of all of this extraneous noise and what do you really want?
33:37
Yeah, what do you really want to do?
33:40
It's, yeah. It's the eternal question.
33:43
Did you find as your practice got bigger, that you got further
33:46
and further away from that thing that you loved doing the most,
33:50
the dental work, the thing that intrigued you the most and you
33:54
sort of had to do? Did you, was the practice set up
33:57
such a such a way where you're kind of more managing people
34:00
rather than doing that thing that you used to love or that
34:04
you do love? 1,000,000% like we definitely
34:07
saw sort of the middle ground was our sweet spot.
34:10
And sometimes we say if we could have just stayed there, we
34:13
probably would have sort of that medium sized boutique practice.
34:17
We probably would have stayed there for another, you know, 20
34:20
years. But once you get to this
34:22
behemoth and you're having to manage lots of different persons
34:27
and different things, and we know we owned our building and
34:31
we were having to bring in consultants to deal with other,
34:35
you know, HR issues and hire PE OS and there's insurance.
34:40
It, it just becomes that, yeah, I, I definitely, my job
34:45
particularly was managing the business and I could do
34:51
dentistry forever, but the practice of dentistry, I, I
34:55
don't care if I ever do it again in terms of the business of
35:00
dentistry. Yeah, I find that a lot like I
35:04
used to talk to wine growers and they, you know, they they got
35:08
into horticulture and viticulture for that reason.
35:10
They love to be outside. They like to be interacting with
35:13
the plants and with the ground and the sea and the sky and all
35:16
the things. And then the the more promotions
35:20
they got, the the further away they got from the vineyard
35:25
itself. And they and they would have to
35:27
be in the office, you know, doing Excel spreadsheet, yes.
35:31
Yes. Remember talking to this one guy
35:33
and he's just like, what? What?
35:34
What the fuck? Like, yeah, Like it's yeah.
35:36
He was obviously having some sort of personal crisis at the
35:40
moment, and it was completely inappropriate for the purposes
35:43
of my visit, but it was, yeah. It sort of stuck with me, you
35:49
know, his comment because because I was having a shitty
35:52
day too, so the story didn't turn out too well.
35:55
But anyway, all that is to say, yeah, like the the bigger these
36:00
things get, the further away we get from that thing that that
36:05
fed our soul in the 1st place, right?
36:08
But again, you use the success and the financial success as but
36:13
that's OK because of this and but it's really not.
36:17
But it it just doesn't, it doesn't fulfill you in the ways
36:22
that you know, doing what you really want to do does so.
36:27
And so Bitcoin, obviously you've mentioned this before, you know
36:31
it, it enabled you to critically think a little bit more like
36:35
switch on that that gene that was in that's in all of us.
36:38
I really do think, but also sort of maybe shifted your
36:43
perspective a little bit away from that materialist point of
36:46
view and just thinking, well, OK, cool, I've got a firm
36:49
foundation here now. Now I'm now that I know what
36:52
inflation does and it just erodes my purchasing power and
36:55
I'm just going to be on this hamster wheel and I've got to
36:57
get bigger. And I've got a scale in order to
36:59
kind of out compete the these these dudes at the Fed, which is
37:05
now the Federal or, or what's, what's the other word?
37:08
I don't know. But you know, the Federal
37:10
Reserve, Yeah. Or has any reserves.
37:12
There you go. And they just print money while
37:16
I'm busting my ass every single day trying to deal with all
37:19
these issues and they can just print it for free.
37:23
Cool. What?
37:24
Sorry, what am I doing? And then maybe you flip to, I
37:29
don't know, was it a full 180? Was it, was there a cultivation
37:33
of more of a maybe a spiritual element started to, you know,
37:38
you start to feel an impulse? It, it definitely, I think COVID
37:43
did change a bit for we had had most of our employees were long
37:48
term and we, we just saw a shift in people during COVID, you
37:54
know, in terms of employees not wanting to work to take
37:59
advantage of things and unemployment.
38:02
And it that was a little discouraging.
38:06
We saw sort of tempers rise with patients.
38:08
We had patients arguing with each other, just things.
38:11
I don't know. I saw a shift that made the
38:15
practice of dentistry not as appealing to us.
38:18
And then when I realized, I started to work the numbers and
38:21
thought, OK, we can, we can walk away, we can sell, we can do
38:26
this. And if we sell the house, sell
38:29
the things, sell the business then and put a good part of that
38:34
into Bitcoin, we're, we're OK. Like we, we, we can really kind
38:38
of walk away And, and that's what we did.
38:42
That's so good. And you moved to, you moved to
38:45
Hawaii and, and, and have you, have you had an impulse yet to,
38:52
to, to be, have you, have you done a Ramdas retreat?
38:56
Like because you're in Hawaii and you know, those retreats go
39:00
on quite often. I don't know.
39:01
I'm just, I'm literally just completely hard cutting to that
39:05
question because that's what I'd be doing if I lived in in Hawaii
39:09
for sure. You would be doing what?
39:11
I'm sorry I missed that you cut out for a second, you said.
39:15
That. You would be What if you were in
39:18
Hawaii? I would be going to a Ramdas
39:20
retreat in Maui. He's obviously no longer with
39:23
us, but he, he had this, he has, he's got this sanctuary, which
39:27
is this organization called the Loving Awareness Sanctuary.
39:34
And I. Have no idea about this you're.
39:36
You're educating me. You got to check it out.
39:38
I'll I'll flip it to you. That that would be, I mean, in
39:43
terms of where, you know, what Bitcoin is, is done.
39:47
And this isn't about me, but this notion of moving away from
39:51
the material having having like a level of it where it's
39:55
comfortable and, and, and it's, you know, you can abide and it's
39:59
nice, but you're not on the, the the wheel anymore.
40:04
And then you have a little bit more time to figure out.
40:09
Like ask questions of yourself. Like OK, cool, now who am I?
40:14
What am I doing? Like what do I like?
40:17
Oh yeah. So that, that would definitely
40:18
be something I'm interested in. We, we do still have our younger
40:22
two kids at home and so, you know, we're still raising them.
40:26
That's really cool. Yeah, it's great.
40:29
They they are. Hawaii is very different from
40:32
where we were in Atlanta. I'm thankful that they've
40:35
they're getting this upbringing that is, you know, a little more
40:39
outdoors and just more focused on Aloha and who they are and
40:45
what their strengths are. So thankful for that.
40:49
And but yeah, I would like to explore that more and things.
40:54
But yeah, we're sort of concentrating on them.
40:55
And then my parents are elderly, so that's become something we've
40:59
had to do a lot in the last year is helping take care of them.
41:02
But the one thing we, you know, I, again, I don't want anyone to
41:07
think that, you know, we're not living in a monastery and, you
41:11
know, thrown off all of our possessions and no cars.
41:15
I mean, we live a comfortable lifestyle.
41:18
We, we love where we are. I wake up to a beautiful water
41:21
and Mountain View every day, but I never wake up thinking, what
41:26
more do I want? Materially it's, you know, it
41:31
finally feels like, oh, this is enough.
41:34
So we think how to fill our day with things that that fill us
41:40
rather than things that fill us. And do you think that Bitcoin
41:44
has played like a significant? It's, it's always funny to me
41:48
trying to frame this a bit better.
41:50
It's a neutral protocol for transmitting value across time
41:53
and space. It's literally money.
41:54
They're using it currently. Don't like time stamping these
41:57
these things. But you know, we got the news
42:00
earlier in the week about, you know, the Strait of Hormuz and
42:02
Iran saying, well, if you want to pass through here, you got to
42:04
pay some Bitcoin. Yeah, I'm still not sure if
42:08
that's true or not. But anyway, let's just say
42:10
that's a that's definitely an idea that exists and it's out
42:13
there in the world. So it's used like for things
42:17
like that. But yet at the same time, the
42:18
most the, a lot of people that I talked to on this pod, it's just
42:24
had a transformative effect on them.
42:26
It's it's enabled them to see a whole lot more clearly or focus
42:31
in on things that matter more to them.
42:34
So that thought, when you wake up in the morning, do you think
42:38
you would be able to do it Had you not, as you said, like you,
42:42
you kind of ran the numbers and you're like, fuck it, we'll just
42:44
put it all in Bitcoin and I think we'll be OK.
42:47
I think we'll be cool. That's powerful.
42:51
Yeah, yeah, because I, I, I would think before it, it just,
42:57
you know, it never felt like enough.
42:59
We always felt like we you know, how how to grow the practice,
43:03
how can what what can we do here?
43:04
What can we do? And I we just don't feel that
43:06
way. I will say I do like I'll, I'll
43:09
reach some stacking goal in Bitcoin and think, OK, that's
43:13
good I'm done. I I, I think I'm going to turn
43:16
off the DCAI, think I'm good and then. 6.15.
43:20
Very quickly it again, it'll start to feel like no, I, I, I
43:24
really want to go for the next goal.
43:26
And so that's the one area that I think, I still always think
43:29
that I thought I had enough. I don't think I have enough.
43:34
Yeah, I mean, but why not? Like, that's the whole point.
43:36
It's Hungry Hippos you know and well and.
43:39
I do think to myself, where else am I going to put it?
43:43
You know, I know so, so many people this past cycle it was,
43:46
oh, you should have done gold or silver.
43:50
I'm good. Like I just I, I really, I don't
43:54
stay at wake up up at night wondering, you know, what the
43:58
markets are going to do, what bitcoins going to do.
44:00
I just it for me it's the store of value and I'm very content
44:06
just continuing to stack. Yeah, the logistics of buying
44:10
gold and silver just so more annoying, so much more annoying
44:15
than than than Bitcoin. It really is.
44:19
It's not even a question, really.
44:21
Yeah. And then some people I that I
44:23
know who had bought physical silver and we're trying to
44:25
offload it recently. It turned out it wasn't very
44:28
like just hearing all of that. I was like, oh, thank God.
44:30
I did not, you know, get tempted by any of that.
44:35
No, that's good to hear. Yeah, I mean, there, there's
44:38
certain things. I guess you could.
44:39
I mean, the, I guess the most important thing, it seems like
44:42
you don't need to to convince your oldest about how to custody
44:47
Bitcoin properly and look after it.
44:48
So there's any inheritance coming their way.
44:51
And I don't want to speak out of turn here.
44:52
Maybe they got to earn it. Maybe.
44:54
Maybe there isn't any. Maybe Mum and Dad are just going
44:56
to spend it all. I don't.
45:00
Know they won't know until we're going but I mean that is
45:03
something that I urge everybody to do is it it is not as
45:07
simplistic as you would think it is and not self custody can be
45:13
very very easy, but inheritance plans when you have Bitcoin
45:18
becomes much, much more difficult so that you feel that
45:23
there is enough security in place while you're alive, but
45:26
then you know that your wishes are conveyed and that the
45:33
Bitcoin is transmitted securely to your heirs.
45:37
It's something that if anyone you know, listening to your pod
45:41
has that intention with their, you know, to for their families
45:47
to really put some time into that.
45:50
It it, it, it wasn't a simple thing.
45:53
It's very important and I guess. To go about, you know, getting
45:57
done for. Our family, it's something a lot
45:58
of us don't really think about, I guess because because so many
46:02
other things on our plate, right?
46:04
And you really have to do like to to be dedicated to to
46:10
directing some attention and energy towards something like
46:15
that. Yes, yes, yes, and it's AI mean
46:24
we had had wills and things in place before, but and trust and
46:30
those. But once you put Bitcoin into
46:32
the mix and again, wanting to keep things private, you know,
46:38
even from maybe attorneys or people preparing these things
46:42
for you, it does become much, much more complicated.
46:46
So again, I would urge anybody who has these plans in place for
46:51
their families to to invest some time.
46:53
What might be a good time to ask?
46:54
For that so that it's executed. What do you wish more people
46:57
knew their wishes? I think the average person does
47:12
not realize, and I talked about this almost weekly, I tend to
47:17
wear a lot of Bitcoin merchandise.
47:19
I know it's horrible upset, but it does bring up conversations
47:23
whether I'm hiking or and it comes up constantly that I can't
47:30
afford to buy, you know, spend 70K on, you know, I don't have
47:35
70K lying around. I can't buy Bitcoin and when I'm
47:40
able to teach people, Oh no, you, you know, you could put $10
47:43
in today that you and it's easy and from your phone and you
47:46
don't need a broker and you don't need to go someplace and
47:49
there's no physical bitcoins. And I think to me that is
47:54
incredibly powerful because when I see the light bulb go on that,
48:00
oh, I can be a part of this financial instrument, You know,
48:05
it, it, it's, I find for some people, especially if they
48:10
aren't involved in the stock market or things like that, or
48:14
investing. That.
48:16
Bitcoin becomes. More accessible, accessible.
48:19
Otherwise if there's too many friction points to go from go to
48:22
woe or to A to BA. Lot of people just they switch
48:26
off at the first time sign of struggle I guess.
48:30
And they, yeah, they won't, they won't pursue it any further.
48:35
Yeah. It's one of those things like
48:36
when you, when you start it, you know, you're buying $5 worth or
48:39
whatever it was, and you're like, oh shit, I can just buy
48:42
like a little amount. This is cool.
48:44
I didn't know that. Quick break just to say, if
48:47
you're enjoying the show and digging what you hear, please
48:50
consider supporting discovering Bitcoin by shooting, boosting,
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49:13
Lightning address Please send zaps and sats or zaps of sats in
49:18
support of the show to discovering Bitcoin at
49:22
primal.net. Thank you for listening and
49:25
thank you for your support. Yeah, it, it, it is the number
49:30
even now. You would think after all this
49:32
time that, you know, people would know this.
49:34
But it, it, it, it is probably the biggest shock I will get
49:39
from people regularly is that, oh, I didn't know I could buy
49:42
less than one. It's so funny, I remember when I
49:48
bought them for the first time and it was, it wasn't, it wasn't
49:53
a very big amount. And I remember I didn't even
49:55
realize like like it was divisible and I see it on the
50:01
exchange wallet and I'm like, wait, I just, I just bought like
50:08
I think it was $50.00. I was like, shouldn't I have
50:10
like 50 of these things or something?
50:12
I'm sure. How does this work?
50:15
Yeah, but it's cool that the, you know, when I'll, you know,
50:18
send someone some Bitcoin. Oh, you can just send me $10 a
50:22
bit, you know? Absolutely.
50:23
And they're like, I own Bitcoin now.
50:26
Yes, you do. Yeah, yes, you're part of it.
50:28
And, you know, and just hold it, hold it for five years for me
50:32
and see what happens. I reckon although you know this,
50:36
this sideways ground is, you know, we've been grounding
50:39
sideways for roughly 4 years now.
50:42
Yeah, yeah. I think we're in the, you know,
50:44
teenage years, I think. And so it's growing up.
50:48
I definitely have seen Bitcoin Twitter grow up this cycle.
50:52
I, I, I don't enjoy it as much, but I think it was, it was
50:57
inevitable, you know? Yeah, it's not as cool as it
51:02
used to be. It's not.
51:04
Which seems like cringe to say, but it's like, it's kind of like
51:07
when you when you when your favorite band gets really big,
51:11
like. Maybe.
51:12
Yes. It's not cool.
51:13
Yeah. I kind of liked them before they
51:16
were cool, you know, like I, I'm happy for you, but like, you
51:20
should really go check out their first LP like it's, it's pretty
51:23
sweet. Yeah, my husband and I have had
51:27
that experience that we went to a concert of somebody we really
51:31
like. That was this, you know, cool
51:33
college band. And, you know, 10 years later
51:36
after marriage, we go and we're listening.
51:37
We're waiting in line outside of this, you know, neat venue to
51:42
go. We'll see them.
51:42
And these two young girls behind us go.
51:45
Like, why is everybody here so old?
51:53
Yeah, we're like, oh, this is the cool.
51:56
Hey man, listen, let me tell you a few things, young one.
52:00
My God. Absolutely.
52:04
I was reading up about the Grateful Dead just recently and
52:08
like, they always had a massive following and half of the
52:11
experience wasn't even at the concert.
52:12
It was it was in the car park, in the parking lot outside and
52:17
all the tailgating. And apparently in the 90s, when
52:21
like a new cohort of fans were coming through, you had all
52:24
these older cohorts that were around in the 60s and 70s.
52:28
And they, yeah, they had like a real disdain for the for the
52:31
younger kids, but the younger kids were there for the music.
52:34
They were, they wanted to hear the music.
52:35
And so they were both completely aligned for their reasons being
52:39
in that in that moment. But they both had this different
52:44
perspective of each other. Like the young ones were
52:47
revering these older ones. Like, man, you guys saw these
52:51
guys in their prime in the 70s. Unbelievable.
52:54
And the older ones were like, what?
52:56
What are you guys doing here? Like you're not cool enough for
52:59
us. It's funny.
53:01
Well, and isn't that where we are at Bitcoin with all of, you
53:04
know, legacy finance here, I think you know all the memers
53:08
and the, you know, the sovereigns and all, you know,
53:11
we, we see it. Co opting our memes man.
53:14
Stop doing it now. Why are you here?
53:17
You know, you're, but it's, I think the value and the purpose
53:24
are still always there. We just come from, you know, we,
53:28
our perspectives are very different as to why it's
53:30
important. Thoroughly what does Bitcoin
53:34
mean to you? I think more than anything else,
53:39
it means freedom. I mean, it's meant freedom for
53:41
my family. But having done work in El
53:45
Salvador, you know, I, I see people who did have difficulty
53:52
with access to the financial system that we're able to really
54:00
change their lives with Bitcoin. So for me, you know, I've seen
54:03
it on every level that Bitcoin is, is freedom for people.
54:10
Absolutely. Amazing, Susie, thank you so
54:14
much for spending some scarce time, finite energy telling us
54:17
the tale of how you discovered Bitcoin.
54:19
It's been a pleasure, a joy, and a real privilege to have you on
54:22
the pod. Thanks so much, I really enjoyed
54:25
talking to you.