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Transcript

Mindful Wealth · Financial Planner Life Podcast

0:08
SPEAKER_01: Hello, financial planner life.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: It's me, I'm Charlie, back in the seat, and today I have Jay Street from Mindful Wealth.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: And I'm very excited because Jay is a financial advisor and he started up his own business, very linked to his intrinsic values.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to dive straight in today.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: And I hope this is a really inspiring episode for people who might be considering a second careerist like Jay, turning into the world of financial advice, but also making sure that as soon as you put your foot in this world, it is linked to what you believe in and attracting the clients which also share that.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: So, Jay, I think a good place to start is always at the beginning.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: And it'd be good to share with the listeners a little bit about yourself before you became a financial advisor and how you became a financial advisor.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: I um thanks for having me, by the way.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to be here.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, very, very non-traditional background.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: I I think I've done a lot of thinking about this.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: And for me, the thought process was always around, even when I was younger, how do I be part of something bigger than myself?
1:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh, how do I really help people?
1:25
SPEAKER_00: So at the age of 17, I thought, well, what's the best career I can possibly get into to achieve that?
1:31
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, emergency services.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: So it took me two years, but I joined the London Fire Brigade and I managed to get in just before I was 20.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, so very different to financial services.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: I um I found out a couple of things from that.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: I did learn a lot from being in the fire brigade.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: I think the first thing is anyone that's worked for government knows that unfortunately you don't actually make a difference individually.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, you haven't got much control.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: There's quite a militaristic theme running through the fire brigade.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: So for someone who likes to question things and not do what the majority of people do just because everyone else is doing it, I found it really hard.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: There's quite a lot of friction there.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: And ultimately realized that actually I'm I can't really make a difference.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: And what I do now, I I genuinely feel much more um much happier, and I feel like I'm making much more of a difference, believe it or not, than what I was doing there.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: So uh I was in the fire brigade for over 13 years.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: Wow and whilst I was in the fire brigade, I was keeping fit into my fitness.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: I started in financial services through uh actually Vitality, so a company, if those of you that don't know, it sort of fuses the wellness world with insurance.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: I was always quite interested in in finances as well, personally, and just threw myself into it.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: So, from no experience at all, trained up with uh at the time quite a large um partner of vitality, started having conversations about people's uh life insurance, and I loved it.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, just from there, really dabbled around a little bit in various areas of of financial services, started in property because I thought, yeah, this is where it needs to be.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: Realized that actually um it's very, very hard in that area because essentially you're ticking boxes for banks.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, are you making the difference?
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you are helping people buy their first homes and refinance their homes, but I really wanted to do more.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: So I I looked uh at all the options and um come to don't know what when exactly, but I I came around to the idea of actually financial planning, which is a lot less transactional, you're not just helping people and then waving goodbye for a couple of years, you're actually helping people for the long term and you're actually making that difference.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that's how I started Mindful Wealth.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like you were looking for something a little bit more holistic and something where you can have that lasting impact on someone's life.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: And I speak to people a lot about it in you know the recruitment world.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: People say, I don't want to be a financial advisor that is simply transactional.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: I want to build those relationships, I want to have that long-term reaping those rewards myself, but also purely for them as well.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: So, mindful wealth, I think it kind of says it in the title, mindfulness about your wealth.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's such a great way to pose the question almost.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: As soon as someone goes, Oh, I want a financial advisor, if I was to go into the market and look at a company and you I see mindful wealth, instantly I know I'm gonna be able to come in and have a conversation with you where I'll bring up something about maybe like meditation or how I practice my mindfulness and being mindful about my money is something I need to be a lot more mind mindful of.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Again, it's just that word that flows off the tongue.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: So, talk to me about the process you went through of setting up mindful wealth and how you found it as somebody you'd come as a second careerist into financial planning.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: So I so let's go back to the start.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm quite fortunate in the fact that because I didn't um start this from very, very young, I've had that time to, especially in a career like the Fire Brigade, really um get a lot of life experience and mature, but also alongside that, really think about what do I actually want to do from day to day?
5:49
SPEAKER_00: And I know it's very um cheesy to say this, but it's obviously the ideal thing, I think, is to have your work and home life and your personal values all seamless.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: So you're not putting your work hat on and having to be a certain way and have a certain set of values and then actually leave the office and and do something else.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: So I thought, where could I how could I streamline that and have my personal values basically embedded in my business?
6:19
SPEAKER_00: Um personally, I've gone through a bit of a journey ethically as well.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh coming up to seven years ago, I I went vegan, and that really it's so much more than for those of you that that don't know, so much more uh than just the food choice, it's a real lifestyle, and it's really very similar thing.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: So you're looking at your your values and your actions, and you know, are they necessarily meeting together?
6:47
SPEAKER_00: So when I looked at financial planning and I looked at the options that people can have where they invest their money, pensions is one thing, but um I often say with pensions it's it's just a wrapper, so it's one of those things that you can invest in.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: It depends on really where our start is where your where the client's goals are, and a pension is one of the tools that we can utilize to help with that.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Um but when I started to look into actually the impact of our money and um how amazing that can be, that really got me excited.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: So I thought, well, it it makes sense to not just be a financial services company that does some sustainable investing.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: I thought I may as well throw myself into it and only do sustainability.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: So every one of my clients, everyone I engage with, I help, um, has got to have some level of responsible approach to their investments.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Um and that doesn't have to be uh when people think of sustainability, I know this word is throughout every industry, and people are probably sick of hearing that word, but it doesn't have to be um a really niche, restrictive thing where you're just investing in you know sustainable um things in Glastonbury, for example, is it's much more diverse than that.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: We we've got so many more options now where people can actually um put put their the the strap line that I've fostered for mindful wealth is put your money where your heart is.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: So I think that really encompasses how I like to help people um and how I like to explain it.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: I think sustainability is it is a word, it is the word that at the moment I always try and encompass it within it's it's everything you can be sustainable in whatever you do.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: And even when I was interviewing for recruitment, it was the one question I asked every single company what are you doing about sustainability?
8:51
SPEAKER_01: But I didn't specify because you can be sustainable in how you hire and how you train and how you look after your employees.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: There is a social sustainability as well as the environmental.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: And I think in terms of putting your money where your heart is, you must have some great conversations with your clients.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: You, you know, you must have that such synergy when they come in and they talk about what they want to do.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: It sort of elevates because it's so linked to your own values as well, that you must get some beautiful synergy there.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think how how how long has mindful wealth been open for now?
9:24
SPEAKER_01: How long have you been running?
9:26
SPEAKER_00: So um, just to pick up on your comment, by the way, about sustainability, that's exactly why I picked one of the main reasons why I picked the I uh the name mindful wealth, because um when you ask people about sustainability, they all have a different version of what that means to them.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: So I wanted a really um inclusive, uh cast a very wide net as to um, I didn't want to use the buzzwords of ethical or sustainable.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: So that's how I come up with the word mindful wealth.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: It's just about being more uh conscious and mindful about what you're doing.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: And there's no right or wrong answer, so we try and be really inclusive.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: But mindful wealth is in year three now.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: So we're still, I guess, uh count as a startup, um, which is great because I think um the more established you get as a business, the the harder things are to actually make changes.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: And whilst we uh so all of our um recommendations are FCA regulated, so there's some restriction there, but I like to be able to make changes very quickly and adapt.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's great.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: And also everything I'm doing is usually the first time in terms of um, I've done a few podcasts now, but when I'm speaking to new people, that's that's what I love.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, it's really exciting to be on this journey.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned as well that you went on the journey of looking at your own ethics and your own values and stepping into the world of veganism.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think I was 11 when I went vegetarian.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've been on a very on and off journey.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm currently eating meat, I'm eating fish, but I think it's been a long journey.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm now 26, almost 27.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: So more than half my life I've been dipping in and out of veganism.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: And how would you say that?
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Has it like elevated yourself and how you service?
11:23
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you have people coming to you who are like you've got vegan clients who are looking for stuff?
11:29
SPEAKER_01: Because I think when you're a vegan, you'd like you said, it's a lifestyle choice.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: And if you've got a client, I know when I was vegan, I would Google like vegan hairdresser, I would Google vegan everything to try and find a resource or a service.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: So, do you have like a lot of vegan clients coming to you?
11:45
SPEAKER_00: I do, and there are a couple of I do a lot of work within the the vegan community, and uh there's now uh vegan-only um networking groups, and um so we're vegan-founded, for example, we're part of vegan business tribe, so there's all these things that are not niche anymore, and really um it's it is still a little bit of a stigma to say the word vegan and to hear that word, but really if you just think of it as a as a as a set of values, um, and just like any other decision we're making, uh whatever we're buying or whatever services and things we're doing, I think you're completely right.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: People are now much more in tune with actually looking for those things.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: I certainly look within my business and personally at everything I buy, whether it's stationary or marketing or any freelancers that help uh mindful wealth, I always look for that same set of values.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't necessarily have to be vegan, but um certainly on the sustainable side, because I think another thing which we may touch upon, um to put it in a positive light, I think uh greenwashing is is all over.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: So you're getting a lot of the bigger corporate companies that are saying things but not necessarily backing them up with their actions or the things in the background.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: So I'm always um to use the word, always very mindful of that within my company.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: So everything I do, I try my hardest to make sure that I really look into it and be very conscious with the decisions I'm making.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, greenwashing is a term which there are so many companies which greenwash.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: And even I think it was last week, was it?
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Where I don't know if you've heard of Client Earth, um, but they are a portfolio partner for the Global Returns Project.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: I know that we've spoken that you are aware of them, they've been on the podcast, fantastic initiative.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and client earth is essentially pro bono lawyers suing governments, suing organizations if they aren't meeting criteria for climate crisis.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: And last week client earth took Shell to the, I think they're suing Shell, but they've also actioned against the FCA, which I find very interesting.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: They're saying that the FCA didn't look into the climate risk impacts of a company who wants to invest in oil and gas drilling in the North Sea.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think that is very interesting because we're starting to see regulators pulled up on the climate crisis.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: And I think, would you I think from my side in recruitment, I have seen a big increase in, I guess if you want to label people as Gen Z or millennial, I'm right on the cusp, so I'm always a bit like blase to it.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, but a lot of Gen Z people are saying no to very good companies because they don't match up with their values.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: And one of the biggest ones moving forward is the climate crisis.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, from my learned experience of being a vegan, meat is a massive, massive impact on the planet.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: So being mindful of it, even if you just, you know, look really where your meat comes from as a very minimum, you don't have to stop eating it necessarily, but just having that mindfulness of it and you can go from different layers of it.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think for you as a business, where do you see mindful wealth going in terms of the climate crisis?
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Is that something you've started to take into account?
15:14
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you have in terms of the funds and the pensions that you work with, but where do you see mindful wealth going?
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, so yeah, I obviously environmental issues are uh massive for a lot of people.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: So when you ask people about uh or when you mention these words sustainability and being more ethical, that's usually at the forefront of of where people's heads are at.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's a big thing.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: I I work a lot on um, as you said, there's a lot of greenwashing out there, there's a lot of um I think a lot of the time people are also so overwhelmed because there's so much information coming in.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: Um the the term um cognitive dissonance is quite apt, I think, for this conversation.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: So that talks about I think most people know certain things are not the best way of doing things, but the problem is there's so much noise out there and there's so much information that's conflicting, it's almost like, well, I know I'm not perhaps doing this the right way or or the best way, but I I haven't got a headspace to actually um to to look into this fully, which I I completely get.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm one of those personalities that won't do things that way.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: I'd be I'd research something for, I mean, we're talking offline about cameras.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: I'd research a webcam for three hours, no problem.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: I'd I'd get focused on that.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, for the average person, it's it's really hard.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, the climate crisis is, I think there's not anyone alive now that doesn't agree it's it's a real thing.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm 37, so I'm just about in the millennial uh age still.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Does really concern me.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: I remember still, you know, in my early years, still seeing it snow over Christmas.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: That never happens anymore.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: We're getting really, really hot summers, particularly last year.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, really kind of up and down weather.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's glaringly obvious that there's something we massively have to change.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, what I do a lot with with mindful wealth is um, with that in mind, the average person not being able to um really comprehend things is really take all of the noise, because even when you look at the industry language, I mean the word pensions over 110 years old, everything's very archaic and very, I think, engineered in a way that, you know, back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, it was overcomplex.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like um when you look into sort of legal systems, it's it's it's designed that way traditionally.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: So, first thing I look at doing is breaking down the noise, uh, clearing that and actually speaking to someone in real English and saying, look, like I said earlier, you know, pension doesn't have to be scary.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: It's one of the things that we can utilize for your planning.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: These are the benefits, these are maybe the the negatives, things you've got to think about.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, I also do a lot about actually showing uh impacts for clients.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: So there's some amazing things that we can show to clients, and we do on a regular basis, things like impact reports.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: So on the carbon front, we can show actually how much carbon an individual's saving from just moving their pension from a traditional benchmark portfolio to an impact portfolio.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: And um, taking the average pension, which is around 62,000 pounds in the UK, if you just switch that to an impact fund, that could save an individual up to 10 tons of carbon a year.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: So that is actually about the average consumption.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: So you could, in effect, I don't like labelling, but you could become carbon neutral just by switching your pension, for example.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: But it casts such a more wider net than that.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: So in a whole raft of environmental issues and within the impact reports we can provide for clients, it shows fundamentally where your money's going.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Because it's great saying, Well, I'm in a green fund.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, what does that mean?
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Where's that going?
19:25
SPEAKER_00: So it breaks down things like healthcare, technology, um, social issues as well.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of companies, I think one of the good things about social media and the access to information immediately is that it's very, very hard now for companies.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: When we take brewdog a few months ago, uh post posters about Qatar and how they're anti-Qatar.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: And then actually someone looked within a matter of seconds and said, Well, actually, haven't you just uh supplied all of the pubs in Qatar very recently with with and promoted your product?
20:03
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's very hard for uh companies, corporations to now just greenwash and create noise because there's so much clarity now with certain things.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so a big part of it is actually yeah, clearing that noise, showing people actually what their money's doing on a regular basis.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: And it becomes so much more engaging.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: You were saying about speaking to clients and it becomes so much more interesting than just talking about numbers and assets and you know the fundamentals, which are important, but you know, let's really go into uh where your money's going and uh and how you're making an impact.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: It's great.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think looking at impact generally, you know, when you put together someone's financial plan, you look at suitability, you look at risk.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: The climate crisis is an inescapable risk, and how could it be suitable moving forward if you're not taking that into consideration?
21:03
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's something where it's very much the future of financial planning.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: And I have so much admiration for people like yourself who in the profession are using money as a force for good.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think anyone can turn any business into a force for good, right?
21:18
SPEAKER_01: I think obviously there are some businesses which are typically like demons and could be demonized, and they are having a really, really negative impact, not only on people but on the environment.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: But I do believe that in financial planning, when you are dealing with money, my dad has always said, if you want to make any change, Charlotte, you know, 16-year-old me, the full vegan, being like, Dad, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: The climate, blah, blah, blah.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, if you want to go anywhere, you go to the top and you go where the money is.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: So I feel like when you're a financial planner and you're looking at somebody's life, you're giving them this advice, you are having such a long term impact on the planet and multiple people that, like you said, when you go into firefighting.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: You were like, I'm sure you helped people without a shadow of a doubt.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: But you are having an effect on the people, your clients, but also their children, their grandchildren, but also the planet through that financial plan.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like a butterfly effect when it comes through from that, isn't it?
22:17
SPEAKER_01: So it's a really beautiful thing that financial planning is going down this path.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: And it's great that you're also there going down with it.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: And I think as someone who has their own business, how have you found the sort of mental health side of things as a financial planner who owns their own business and having such in-depth conversations about values?
22:38
SPEAKER_01: I think it also is quite emotional when you're talking to people about these topics.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: How have you found it?
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't get asked that a lot.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: So it's often overlooked.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: I think when you're thinking about finance, it's all quite um, I don't know, almost like compartmentalized.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, particularly if you know, I'm talking to people that have got a responsible, uh, sustainable, ethical view of where they're putting their money.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, these sort of conversations happen a lot more.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think naturally I'm I'm quite empathetic.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: So partly the reason why I got so frustrated in the property side of the industry because you know, I I was struggling to understand why these banks were coming up with these objections.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: And um, you go through a journey with clients.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: So I think that is a big thing, whether you're in uh financial planning or mortgages or anywhere in um, and it doesn't have to be that you're an advisor.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: If you're you know a paraplanner, you play a really important part in that journey.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: And um, I think using the term for being mindful of that so you can ground yourself is really important because it's you do absorb things if you care about your clients.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: You you do um go on that journey with them.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Looking at your mental health as a financial advisor and looking at your clients' mental health to have sort of a truly consultative and holistic approach, I think both need to be taken into account.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: So, for yourself, how do you navigate?
24:15
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, talking about money and your clients' mental health, along with your own mental health of being a business owner and being a financial planner, but also being J outside of work.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's so important to consider mental health of clients.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: I think often, like you mentioned, we're thinking of suitability and we're looking at regulations, and there's a lot of compartmentalization that people do.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: But I think when you're dealing with clients and um and their needs, it's it's so much more than just the recommendation as in the the products, right?
24:51
SPEAKER_00: It's more than just the providers, it's actually looking at it's asking why why they're doing things or um also their goals are very rarely do you meet someone who just has monetary goals who will tell you that the black and white.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: There's always reasons for that, whether it's looking after their children, have um leaving the legacy, um, things like that.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: Also, I think that um mental health in terms of um people's uh relationship with money is really important.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: I meet people with a lot of money and they're not it's interesting to use the word wealth and to to talk about that because I meet people that yeah, have a lot of money, but they they're not wealthy because they spend money as soon as they get it in.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: And there's also people that are a lot more cautious, and I help clients, for example, business owners who get their business rapidly, rapidly um um accelerates.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: And it's two million pound businesses, but they've still got the mindset of someone who's more, you know, working class.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's so important to have the right mindset and to make sure that your relationship with money is um is on point.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Um we not to go down too much of a tangent and and speak like I'm an old man, but we are genuinely in a in an age where it's like I think they call it the Amazon era.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: Order it today, get it tomorrow, fast track everything straight away, have it now, you know, buy now and think about it later.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, things aren't um they're starting to change in terms of you know, phones and things like that.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: People uh the the companies are starting to realize actually people want to be more sustainable, so they're building things that you can um uh modify and maintain yourself and things like that.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Um but in terms of people's mental health and their relationship towards money, it's yeah, it's so important that people understand some fundamentals.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: And I do work with um, I'm not a coach in any way in terms of life coaching, but I do work with a lot of life coaching.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and there's a lot of coaches now that actually specialise, you probably know a lot of them that specialize in uh money, people's relationship.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: So that goes hand in hand with with what I do.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: I think when it comes to financial literacy, I've had this conversation a lot.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: I find it fascinating.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: I actually did a poll on LinkedIn once and I said, if you are financially literate now, did you learn it at school?
27:41
SPEAKER_01: Did you learn it yourself?
27:43
SPEAKER_01: Did you learn it from your parents, or are you not financially literate?
27:47
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, nobody learnt it at school.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: No one.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: A few people learnt it from their parents, some people learnt it from themselves because they thought, I've got to seek out this knowledge.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: But a lot of people were like, I'm not financially literate.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: And it kind of becomes a self-perpetuating thing, perpetuating thing, because my parents, if I, you know, if they were savvy with money, I'd probably pick up on those habits.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: If they weren't savvy with money, I'd also pick up on that, those habits.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's great when you spoke there about somebody coming in whose business has just done fantastically and they've still got that working class mindset of being very frugal, very careful with their money, very safe with their money.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: And that is going to obviously build that wealth.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting when you get people who have a lot of money and how our behaviors differ around that.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: And I actually had a conversation recently about um, it was about ADHD and spending habits around ADHD, because I think there's something like an ADHD like tax that you could bring up.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: And um, because I've got quite a few people in my life that are ADHD.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we're in the age where a lot of people are self-diagnosing, talking about ADHD.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: If you go on TikTok and type it in, it is everywhere.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: But spending habits come into that.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: And I think the psychology, understanding the psychology of how we interact with money is so important.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: And I know financial planners who go into schools and go and do all these different educational things.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: And it really is such a powerful and impactful position to be in when you've done the studying, you've got the knowledge, you know how things work that I have no idea about.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't even know until sort of, I think it was earlier on this year about how important it is to look after your pension and the impact it can have.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I didn't even know that I thought it just sat in a pot.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that someone put that money somewhere.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: So real basic stuff you don't get taught.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think that you almost leave a legacy in that way as a financial advisor when you share that knowledge.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, so when when you were becoming an advisor, then obviously you've been in the game now for a good couple of years.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: Um I love that you got into it through vitality, by the way, that you were like, I love wellness, we have vitality here at Financial Flow Life.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, but what would your advice be for somebody who could be listening as a second careerist who thinks, ah, I love what Jay's done.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: I love that he's built this business around his values so that when he wakes up in the morning and goes to bed in the evening, it is the same version of Jay going through the day from clients to personal life.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: What would your advice be at someone wanting to step into this industry?
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, um, I'll answer that question and then I'll there's so many good things you've said uh just now as well.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to unpack a couple of those bits.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, it's the first thing to note is with my industry, well, with our industry, financial services, it's really, really hard to get into.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it is still, although there's loads of good uh fund managers and good conversations happening, good change being made, it is still very traditional.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: So, for someone when I started um and that was sort of early 30s, trying to get into an industry where you haven't got any experience.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: You probably have conversations with people all the time wanting to get in the industry, I haven't quite got any experience, probably got a lot of transferable skills.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: So my my transferable skills were up there, but my industry experience was was here.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of how do you buck the system and and and get um and get that experience in order to progress, because it's a real um yeah, it's a real quandary.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: It's a good word.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: Um so the way I started was first of all just knocking on doors and doing as much as I could, explaining about my uh experience with vitality.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: And the first thing to think about, and I don't want to again feel like uh come across as if I'm an old an old man, but just the idea of being told no isn't a bad thing.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: I think today people think that they, you know, can send out a pitch deck or a CV and they're instantly get headhunted.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: It's just not the case.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: I remember printing out old school um like 75 CVs and giving them out at every single when I was younger, trying to get a part-time job, and knowing that if I've got one phone call, that would be a good thing.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's a book called something like Start with No.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Or go for the no.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: And that mindset's incredible because it talks about um, it's one of the many books I'll probably read.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: I've got so many I need to read on my list, but he talks about um actually, if you're if if you set out on a day um thinking your goal is to get 20 no's, and after 20 no's you'll get a yes.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, how excited would you be to get that no?
32:52
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, the first thing is don't be afraid that you're going to be rejected because you will be you'll be asked silly questions, you won't have experience, that'll be highlighted.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Um so that that's the first thing.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: Second thing is to look for um a network and a system that can of people that can help you.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: So my company is my own company, Mindful Wealth.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm part of a financial services network and they're called New Leaf.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And they're probably one of the only networks that I know of that actually engage with, support, help people from no experience to, and they've helped a few people like myself come from nothing, no experience to you know, fully fledged advisor.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, look look for the networks and the people that can help you as well.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and also gonna laugh saying this, but it's kind of the opposite still, even though I tell myself all the time, don't see it as uh as a sprint, you have to do everything straight away.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Don't have the obviously you'll have your ideal about how you want to do things.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: I I couldn't have started from nothing and just started mindful wealth.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: You have to go on a journey and learn things, and it's as much about learning what you don't want to do as what you do want to do.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: So the the property side taught me that, and I actually stepped back and I thought, well, why am I getting frustrated here?
34:22
SPEAKER_00: What are the reasons and how can I correct that?
34:25
SPEAKER_00: And all of the reasons why I didn't like that side of things were all of the reasons why I love financial planning.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, those three things really it's be be realistic, you are gonna get the door closed in your face, it's absolutely fine.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: Keep going with it, just just keep going.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh, a no is not a bad thing, lean into your network.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can't remember the third thing I said.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: They can rewind it.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: No, I think uh that that powerful statement about no.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: I you know, if you work as a financial advisor and you don't work under a big national, you don't have leads provided, you will always have to go knock on a door and have the answer no.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: Like it will be part of your job forever.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: The same as myself working in recruitment.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: But when you get someone who says a yes, like you said, you yes, like you've got to celebrate the little wins.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: And that's something that we practice here a lot is every day we're like, right, what was your little win of the day?
35:23
SPEAKER_01: You might not have gone, yes, had this big win, signed a new client, got someone a new job, but you could have had a really, really purposeful, meaning conversation.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: And that is a little win.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: And even like getting 20 no's and then one yes.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: I also think if you go out with the mentality of getting 20 no's, you'll also you won't be like hurt when you get a no, you'll be like, Oh, I was expecting, you know, that's fine.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: But if they say yes, you're like amazing.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: And a no's not forever either.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: They could come back and say yeah.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: It's so hard to um get your head around that.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: And also, like you'll you'll see endless podcasts where people that have done really, really well and achieved, and uh they they will always say the same thing.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: And it is true, it's that you learn more from your mistakes and the things you've done wrong, the things that you didn't see go going that well, uh, than the things you've done right.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's just that learning experience, and um yeah, and and also if if you're not happy with the way things are, then build it yourself.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: So I couldn't find anywhere that would do things the way I wanted to do things, so I started my own company.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I it's always a balance because you've got to tread that line between being um you've got to make sure that things are regulated and they're they're stable and you do things in a certain process, but at the same time, it doesn't need to be traditional or boring.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, just kind of don't run before you can walk, but get get the experience you need to get, but don't feel like just because it's not out there, it's not a possibility.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: I think that's why there's so many.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think in the next five to ten years, I'm probably five to ten years early with these sort of conversations, but people are just gonna wake up and there'll be so many companies, not quite like mindful wealth, but you know, spreading that same message, which is fantastic.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, agreed.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: I think they're becoming more frequent, uh, these types of conversations, but it is still, in my opinion, very rare.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: I think I always tend to label it as old school financial services.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: And if I use the words old school, it's almost like I'm talking about that uncle who I'd argue with over the Christmas table about something topical.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: And it's just because it's the way something's always been done doesn't mean it's the way it should always be done.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: And I've I've done that the same in my whole life.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: I've always been the same with uh kind of looking at veganism, it's the same thing.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: It's well, why why am I eating animals?
37:58
SPEAKER_00: And all of the reasons why I thought they're all learned behaviours, and that also goes into what you were saying before about schools.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: We're talking so much about this over social media, and there's so many conversations I have that actually not to be too negative about it, but I know why it's not taught in schools.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: There's two reasons.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, first of all, things move so much.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've only got to look at the last 12 months of budgets uh to see how much the landscape moves.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: So it'd be very hard for a curriculum which essentially teaches the same thing year in, year out with only tiny changes to actually facilitate that properly.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: The second reason it's a little bit negative, but I truly think that the system is designed for, you know, you imagine if everyone knew about the benefits of a pension, every business owner knew that you could invest 40,000 pounds a year into a pension and write off the tax, essentially.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: Like the government will be struggling, right?
38:59
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's so important that it does happen, but I don't think it's ever meaningly going to happen, um, you know, in in our lifetimes that uh unless they change the education system.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the good thing is there that you know, just because you're not taught it in school, it doesn't mean you can't learn it yourself.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also wanted to pick up on your ADHD comment, if that's all right.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, of course.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: I know I mentioned so what was it, the conversation I had about it?
39:28
SPEAKER_01: It was basically saying that one um sort of behavior that people with ADHD can have is sort of getting that like dopamine hit when they buy something.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: So you get people who will just like have big shopping sprees, have all this beautiful stuff, and then at the end of it, they've just bought loads of stuff and they've got no money, and then they get behind on their bills.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: And it will happen a lot where they'll have sort of just like big, sporadic, like spontaneous moments of spending, and then it's a bit erratic because it's it's linked with that ADHD functioning and how that can really impact someone's finances, and it's not necessarily something that's brought to the table very often, I don't think, when talking about money.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I I mean what did it jog in your mind when I was brought that up?
40:14
SPEAKER_00: So, firstly, as we're talking now, I am self-diagnosed, but I'm I'm almost uh 99.9% certain I demonstrate almost all, if not all, of the traits of ADHD.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: So this is something really close to my heart.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think going back to people's relationship with money, the reason why someone with ADHD would have those sort of impulses and that kind of cycle is it is very much linked to um linked to your own thought process.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: So they talk about hyper focus with ADHD.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I've got no problem in researching a um computer, um what's it called, a camera for three hours.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: But that's what's really good about um, I can research a fund for three or four hours, no problem.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: So that actually is sort of a superpower for me.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, in terms of in terms of that, what what happens if if you imagine you're really excited about a holiday, for example, um, but then you go into it a bit deeper and you think, well, okay, so how am I going to get there?
41:23
SPEAKER_00: When when I get there, what kind of room am I gonna be in?
41:25
SPEAKER_00: What are the activities I'm gonna um be part of?
41:30
SPEAKER_00: And then you you think about every single detail of that holiday, that's kind of like hyper focused mode with ADHD.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think in terms of the dopamine, yeah, it's not I'm not kind of an expert with it, but obviously people with ADHD have irregular levels of of dopamine.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: So the things that I guess um I think they call them neurotypical people um without ADHD have those sort of chemicals that are produced and the processes they go through isn't isn't quite the same.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: So the impulse idea with um buying things and getting that rush is is a real thing.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, for some reason for myself, it's maybe going back to my background or my relationship with money.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: I I do get that a little bit, but I seem to be able to stabilize.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do still have those hyper-focus moments where, like, for example, I've just bought three new pairs of trainers, um, all for different reasons, and I've researched them all because yeah, they're all got to be the right ones.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I could go like a few years without buying anything really um like that.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it uh Monzo Bank, who are a challenger bank, do some fantastic work on ADHD awareness.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm with Monzo, they're very, very good.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: They do the reels and they actually quantify.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: I can't remember the exact stats, but actually it's it's um really eye-opening as to um how you could be um worse off in terms of your money if you have ADHD.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: They've put some real numbers towards it.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: So that's great that they're doing that.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think um for me it's it yeah, it comes down to the same thing.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: It's um it's not trying to I think we're we're kind of quite obsessed as a society with still with perfection.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was uh brought up before like the filter and selfie age, but like it's just got a million times worse now.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of the time, and it's it's great to see those TikToks and all the things everywhere with ADHD like sort of labelling because it's it's something that people don't have to be um ashamed about.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: But also once you've identified these things, it's the same with other behaviours with money.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean you have to necessarily uh fix everything.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: It's just being aware of that and putting things in place.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: So even little things like making sure your um bills are all coming out on the first of the month, just after you're paid, because then you're less likely you're gonna have less money then to maybe splurge on those impulse buyers, or being mindful of that when you're going to buy something, it's like, right, do I need this?
44:24
SPEAKER_00: Um and thinking of the bigger picture as well.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we're not perfect, but I think just those little things will would really help.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: But I'd love to look more into the psychology of it and actually um you mentioned about having people from the big community as clients, which I do.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, it'd be great to find out ways of actually serving that community as well, because I can relate a lot to it, to a lot of it.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: No, I think um there's so so many valid points you said there, like even the simplest one of having all your bills go out on the same day.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I wish I'd known that before I was a student.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: And I always find it a very big blessing that I've ended up falling into the world of financial planning, because if there was ever something I needed to learn more about, it was to learn about my money.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's sometimes why I really enjoy these conversations because I'm quite I'm not objective, but I don't know too much about the profession that I come in probably the same as a client would come in, but I know very well about the profession from a recruitment perspective, that it does, I still have this very different level of awareness of what goes on and I understand the dynamic, but it's still such a learning curve.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think when talking about sort of, I guess the term is neurodivergence and looking at the diverse amount of people that you can have as clients, being aware of how somebody could behave in a sort of ADHD way with money means that you can then make the process a little bit more inclusive because there are certain ways that people will engage with a financial planner, engage with the plan, engage with what's going on, where you might just have to tweak it a bit to be able to be like, right, let's keep your focus on this and and I'll do the hyper focus for you.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: And I definitely relate to the hyper focus.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: So maybe I'm self-diagnosed ADHD at some point as well.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: Um but I think from my side, I always like to say this question to people because it's always a bit of reflection for you, and it's also a little bit inspiring for people listening who might want to follow down this path.
46:24
SPEAKER_01: But if you had advice for yourself before you got into the industry to where you are now, what would it be and why?
46:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, such a good question.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: Very profound.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: I think it comes down to that it's probably a couple of things.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: Um firstly, I think self-development's massive.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: So the idea that you can only really sit back and and look at what you're doing and how you're doing it, and you your own skills and and learning things after the event is crazy.
47:02
SPEAKER_00: Um finding that time to even if it's 10 minutes once a week, to actually understand yourself a bit more.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: Um what I know now from 10 years ago is so with whether it's self-diagnosed ADHD or whether you're the type of person who um even little things like get gets tired and your focus dwindles after three o'clock, don't try and fight it.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Try and understand that and embrace it and work around um work around things.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: So that that would be number one would be try and get find out as much as you can about yourself, be self-aware.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: Um because I think if you look at the people that have done well in business, most of them are um neurodivergent, most of them have things that they would uh probably not describe as flaws, but certain barriers that we just don't fit.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about you know, schools being very uh compartmentalized, and it's the same thing.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: And I know we're talking offline about working from home, I've got my own opinions on that, but I think the good thing is with these sort of conversations that are happening and the way things are going is things are becoming much more flexible.
48:19
SPEAKER_00: So we're not all built and designed to work from nine to five and have a focus and have a lunch hour in the middle of the day and you know switch off at weekends and uh evenings and stuff like that.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: So I think, yeah, number one, self-awareness, and that doesn't mean to be uh, you know, going on 10,000 pound Tony Robbins courses every month.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's it's just trying to find those little things out about you and try not to be too uh judgmental.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh the second thing is um making sure that you look at long-term because I don't think we're in the era anymore where you can comfortably sit back and rely on state pension and um even rely on a career.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: I joined part of what I love, uh what it's a bit of a contradiction with uh the ADHD in terms of when I spend money is I love stability.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: So the idea of um uh having a long-term career and doing things long term is really important to me.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: But I think now they say uh you probably know better than me, but it's something like 11 jobs people have on average in their in their lifetime.
49:39
SPEAKER_00: So it's not there's no such thing as as one career for life now.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: So um I think that's really important.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: If you see your sort of work life as a long-term thing, as well as being self-aware, I I think that's gonna stand you in very good stead.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: Saying mentioning long-term, said like a true financial advisor.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: I think the thing, the good thing is when I'm speaking to people in their 20s, they need a 50-year plan to retirement, uh, really, unless they're you know putting away some serious money and they've got some some serious um thing uh plans going on.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: So it is really, really long term.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it's important not to be overwhelmed by it, um, and just to think the the amount of people I speak to and they don't have huge amounts to invest, but they feel like, well, advice is only for the wealthy, and because they can't, you know, invest 800 pounds a month, then it's not worth doing.
50:45
SPEAKER_00: It's not an all or nothing scenario.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, looking long term, even if they can just, you know, just 40 pounds a month, 50 pounds a month for now, and then that can always build and compound, and um, you know, within 10, 20 years, that can really become something.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think looking long term is not only like the the financial planning mantra, but it's also genuinely about you know doing those small things over time.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well one step in the right direction each day is a very long distance over a long time.
51:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, well, Jay, thank you so much for coming here today.
51:21
SPEAKER_01: I feel there's so much that you've shared that is of so much value to people who might be in the profession currently who are sat there thinking, I think the thing that stood out the most to me from what you've said is just because it's not being done now doesn't mean it can't be done.
51:36
SPEAKER_01: It's carving out your own path.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for sharing that.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: And if anyone listening has any more questions, you can find Jay on LinkedIn.
51:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I look forward to hearing your guys' thoughts on this episode.
51:49
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, and thank you, Jay.
51:51
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.