Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Building a Personal Brand from the Ground Up

Transcript

Building a Personal Brand from the Ground Up · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest on the Financial Planet Life podcast is Nicola Mackenzie from Duran McCarthy.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: She is a fantastic guest.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: We go into detail about what she does around her marketing strategy.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's got a YouTube channel.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: She's always on podcasts.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: She's out there on the social media.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the reality of it, really, the organic approach versus paid for approach and what her experience has been around that.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we share loads of tips for you about how to get started and what mindset you need to get yourself out there building your business brand, but most importantly, your personal brand.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: We also go quite deep around our personal experiences, around the mindset of running a business.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we get really honest with each other.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to tell you any more because it's such an awesome episode.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Go and listen to it.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Cheers.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Nicola, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's finally happened.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: We've tried to arrange this for a while.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I, of course, first met you when I was recording Legal in Generals podcasts, just covered, and it was such an interesting episode talking about protection, how you position protection within your business.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought to myself, now there's a personality that I'd like to bring on the podcast to share about her career, what she's done, how she's got ahead, because you've got a wealth of knowledge, and there's a lot of things that you and I share, similarities.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is going to be a great episode.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm looking forward to learning from you.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: But first off, how are you today?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I am very well, Sam, and I'm very um grateful to that you asked me to do this.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um looking forward to it just as much as you are.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's fantastic, great, brilliant to see.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, Nicola, let's just kick things off, right?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Usually I used to I used to go sort of like, oh, you know, tell me about your career history today, but we're not we're gonna bypass that, okay?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because you are, you know, Nicola McKenzie, and you're the co-founder um of Dunham McCarthy, okay?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into that place, all right.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, first off, just tell us who Dunham McCarthy are.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: So Dunham McCarthy is a group of companies, actually.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we established the business or the group of companies in 2011, and we're a team of um estate planners, solicitors, mortgage, and protection advisors.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So my role in the business, like I say, I'm one of the co-founders and I'm mainly responsible for the financial services aspects of the business.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the other co-founder, Alex, he mainly deals with the estate planning and legal part of the business.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um 2011, it was the two of us that started the business from our third bedroom, and you know, we've grown since then.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're a team now of over 45, specializing in those different things.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: So wow, that's amazing.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, team of 45, and it's been about just over 10 years then, you've you've managed to grow there.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love about that as well, co-founders, two different areas and two different specialisms.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Have you found that because what you find within financial services, there's so much crossover between legal, accountants, financial advice, mortgage advice, protection.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many of these crossovers.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Have you found by having a team, you know, two of you, one that had is heads in that space and one head in the other space, have you found that to be beneficial in respect of things like cross-referral of business?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that is for us, one of the things that make us successful in what we do is the fact that, you know, I was talking about this actually just yesterday because I did a mortgage strategy interview with one of the finalists, which is great.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: But they asked me that exact question, you know, how um how do we feel that our business, I guess, is different to some others?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it is that close relationship and close tie between financial services or protection and estate planning.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So when we're advising our clients, we're not just talking about your basic insurance products, we're talking about protecting the family from all angles, lifetime trusts.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're looking at very, very much a holistic approach with our advice.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't get beneficial from a quality perspective.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So are you got so on the actual legal side then when it comes to things like estate planning, all of that kind of stuff.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Are you are you guys over there step qualified?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you have step qualified practitioners?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, we do, yes.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So will writing and all of that kind of stuff is because I don't obviously that side of um advice is actually unregulated, isn't it?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um we voluntarily are part of the institute of professional will writers.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you're quite right.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um not all of our estate planners are step qualified, but some of them are either fully qualified or working towards that qualification.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, fantastic.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, a couple of years, you know, 12 years ago, so the business was conceptualised, set up.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned there from a back bedroom, okay.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just let's just focus on that then, because what were you doing before?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Were you employed before?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: What was the situation?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a bit of a okay, so it's a bit of a strange one.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll go back a little bit if that's okay, Sam.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um when I left school, I um started working when I was 17 at HSBC Bank.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first entry into finance, if you want to call it that.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was actually my mum that got me that job.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she still works at HSBC now.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: But um I got the job and it was really just to pay my way through college and university, wasn't what at the time I thought would be a long-term career prospect.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So um I worked in collections, customer services, and I was studying a degree actually in media and communications because I initially had plans to work somewhere within the media, producing something like that.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's quite funny how things have panned out actually, because I still get to do a large part of that in my role at the moment with content creation, etc.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: But that was the plan.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I studied media and communications at university while still working at HSBC.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Left um uni, then I went to work at an investment bank in London for a period of time.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because even though media was the goal, but the experience was in finance, so that kind of took over.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, long story short, I did a lot of internships in terms of Sky TV.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: I did some stuff in New York for a film company.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I did bits and bobs here and there, but I always kept getting pulled back to finance.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, long story short, I met my husband, who's also the kind of co-founder, as I mentioned um earlier, who's Alex, and he was working as a mortgage and protection advisor at the time.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that is what really introduced me to, I guess, the next step in my finance career.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I saw what he was doing, and I thought, yeah, that looks like a natural progression for me based on my experience.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um I started working as a mortgage and protection advisor.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've missed out before that, actually, before meeting my husband, I also started a it's very random, but I actually started a vending machine business and I ran that for a year or two.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, interesting.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Again, as a person, I've always had that desire, you know, that entrepreneurial streak.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've always wanted to do something.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it was in the media, I would have done it freelance.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's just kind of the nature of me as a person, I think.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, ran a vending machine business, sold that, then met my husband.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: We um I got qualified as mortgage and protection broker.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: We were both doing that role.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: He was working for Connors, I was working for a home finance company.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Long story short, but the opportunity with the home finance company, I was kind of sold the dream, if you like, and it turned out to be anything but the dream.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when we put our heads together and said, let's do something um together.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: But we actually initially, so our core business when we started was estate planning and protection because it was 2011 with the financial crisis at the time.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: We actually wanted to walk away from mortgages initially.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we did.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the first five to six years I've done a McCarthy, we didn't actually do mortgages, it was solely estate planning and protection.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: We reintroduced mortgages around six years ago, five years ago.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for that rundown.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really interesting stuff there.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's great.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's perfect, actually.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I like I like I love a good rundown because it gives me loads of things, it gets me thinking and it reminds me of things as well because I remember that date as well.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: I remember what the state of the market was in after the credit crunch, right?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I ran a recruitment age, I run a recruitment agency, and you could not move for mortgage advisors on all the job boards.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: They were all looking for jobs.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they were all beforehand selling these bloody Northern Rock 100% mortgages, and everyone was making an absolute kid in.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Bango's a credit crunch.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: You could not move for mortgage advisors, and they could not get jobs.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't a good time to be a mortgage seller, was not a good time to be a mortgage seller at all.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: So very interesting then, and you did the practitioner, uh, sorry, the estate planning moved into the um the protection side of it, and that's how you set that business up.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the catalyst for you was being sold the dream on an employee basis with a firm, but it not meeting or matching either of your internal intrinsic values or expectations.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Was the catalyst money or was the catalyst um purpose?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really, really good question, Sam.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um it was definitely money at the time.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm not ashamed to say that was the catalyst.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think I think a large, I was talking about this actually in a presentation I did recently, but a large part of um I think that stemmed from my upbringing, my environment, you know, growing up, um, you know, we didn't have much.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um my mom, she brought us up single-handedly.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm one of four um siblings, and she worked really, really hard, don't get me wrong, but you know, we we definitely didn't have much much growing up.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that gave me, well, I when I was growing up, I think my ambition and goals, I always thought, well, whatever it is that I do when I do get older, I don't want to have the stress of worrying about finances.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's what probably at the time looking back probably gave me um a bit too much, probably an unhealthy relationship, actually, with extrinsic motivator motivators.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't that's how I would describe it.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's talk to me about that.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that then, because I think you know, there's so many people, Nicola, that are sitting in roles where they're employed, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they are driven to want to earn more money.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you're only really able to earn the amount of money that the uh the process or the structure of what your employment allows you to do, and also the direction of the business.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're at the whim of the direction of the business, their marketing strategies, how they promote themselves, what their customer service is like, etc.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So when you said you had this unhealthy relationship with these extrinsic or intrinsic or external?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would explain it as an unhealthy emphasis on money as an extrinsic motivator.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was the main thing that motivated me.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And but now, 12 years of running a business, that's completely changed.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we spoke about this Sam when we had a meeting before this podcast.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because that was the main focus in the first four to five years of running the business.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Once you get to that goal that you've set yourself financially, that actually got me to a point where I lost motivation in my business.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've got to that goal, it's like, okay, well, what where do I go now?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I mean, I can talk to you more about what happened at that point of losing motivation.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: But long story short, I had to make some major changes to um refocus myself and think, okay, well, what is it that really gets me to tick?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: What is it?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: How can I turn this around?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: How can I be intrinsically motivated?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I would definitely now say I'm in that place, and I have, I guess you could say, fallen back in love with my business.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's because of a readjustment to what motivates me.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's explore that, okay, because I'm really interested, because I'm at a very similar spot myself, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I run a recruitment business.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've also got financial plan of life on the side.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Financial plan of life is doing well, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and the pipeline looks really, really healthy.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I can see such an amazing route that I've got ahead of me, whether it be the studio, whether it be doing partnerships, whether it be feeding into my recruitment company, whether it's the new academy that I'm bringing out.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oops, spoiler alert, I shouldn't be saying that, but heads of terms are being signed.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've got so many good things that are coming out, and I'm so motivated by it, right?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Historically, I haven't ever really been motivated by money.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted it.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: My unhealthy relationship was I had a fear of talking to my business partner about what my expectations are around my earnings and things like that.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And most recently, where I've been starting to see the potential to earn more money in one area outside of what my core business is, which is recruitment, for instance, I've become really reward-focused around money.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And for someone like me who's a dopamine addict, right, I've got to be really careful because for me, if I start, I go all in on something, uh, Nicola.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so for me, I'm like, right, well, I'm going to earn a quarter of a million pounds this year.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's like my like my goal.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to earn a quarter of a million pounds.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now I've never earned a quarter of a million pounds, and I've never earned, I've never got to a stage where I've experienced what that feels like to get past that point of what amount of money actually makes you happy.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you've gone through that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: You've gone through that point where look, I was unhealthy, I had this obsession about making money.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to make it because my upbringing, my beliefs around money, I don't want to be, um, I want don't want to be financially insecure, etc., etc.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you've gone through that cycle, you've gone through it, and you've actually probably hit the financial rewards that you wanted to hit, but soon realised that wasn't enough for you then by the sounds of it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just go to that point because I think when people set up businesses, that it's important to understand that you need different types of goals, don't you?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just money.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and I guess you could say I've learned that the hard way.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, tell us about the hard way then.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: What tell us about what that felt like, what you did, and when you understood that, and what you what you then shifted in respect to what your purpose was.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So can I also ask you a question, Sam, based on what you just said?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: You said that you had a fear of telling your business partner why was that fear?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Where did that come from?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a confrontation conflict fear that stems through my overbearing father, I would say.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I've always found it incredibly difficult to open up to other men.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't really ever educated at home, or money wasn't ever really spoken about or talked about.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was never kind of it was it's it's it's a it's a it's a a past trauma that I've built a belief around that confrontation within my home and in my household with a man who's you know quite overbearing, angry, controlling type individual would put me into a state of anxiety, you know.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So when it came to then have sitting down and having conversations with other men and and and opening up to them, it it's it's taken me a long time, which is why I'm now on the board of directors of Talk Club, the men's mental fitness charity, because I understand fully what it's like to be a man to be too prideful to be able to open up and talk about how you're feeling to get the sort of the problems resolved.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a big reason why men are killing themselves, you know, because they're they're holding on to their feelings and everything.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like my my issue, and also as well, because when you're business partners, right, you know this, right?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's two of you.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when it's two of you and you're paying yourself salary and dividends, you have to have an equal amount, don't you?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be on the same page, yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'd done instead of actually communicating properly and airing how I felt and actually went through the process of saying, look, well, maybe we shouldn't be dividends, maybe we shouldn't be dividends and salary.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: We should move ourselves on the pay.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I should be rewarded for the skill set that I have, and you should be rewarded for the skill set that you have.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: We just never really got to that point into that conversation.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't communicate properly to get over it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: So for years and years and years, I lived in resentment within my job because it was like I was, I wanted to go out and sell, be the person, because the person I am intrinsically, Nicola, is somebody who loves doing this.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love talking to people, selling to people, and I love building relationships and bringing income in.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: But if there was no reward for me, let's go back to this dopamine thing, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I need instant hits of dopamine, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're building a structure and a process where everything I do, everything I touch, I'm rewarded for.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Everything that my business partner does and what he does based on his skill set and his strengths is what he is going to be rewarded for.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if that means that because I'm a salesperson, I might earn more money, so be it.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So now I feel free.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel really excited about it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And because it's a monetary validity on everything, that that's where I am.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of gives you a bit a bit of an insight into how sometimes conflict for me within my business arose.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem is, Nicola, I sat on it for far too long because I didn't communicate properly.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe, and I've spoken now to financial advisors, coaches, it's a very typical thing that happens in partnerships.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And isn't it funny as well, just based on what you've said there, how much our upbringing and early environment can shape what we become?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's just fascinating.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, okay, interesting.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sorry, Sam.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: What did you what question did you ask me?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So whose podcast is this, Nicola?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hey?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was so sorry.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think we got on to the fact that you know you were motivated by money, right?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Again, because of the upbringing and everything.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: You felt you had an unhealthy relationship with that.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: There came a point when you hit the amount of money it was that you felt was the right amount.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: What was it then that you did to shift your purpose when it came to taking your business further?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because you were no longer motivated, you aligned all your motivation to money, it was no longer feeding you, therefore, you needed something else.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to us about that moment because I think, like I've just expressed with you, we sit in that place and it could last for a long, long time.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do about it?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: So when so it was about 2016 when I reached that point, and I think it didn't help as well.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Not only did I reach that initial goal, but it was also the business had grown to a level that I felt a bit out of my depth, is the honest answer.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, five years in, we've got over 40 staff.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I found myself in at the deep end, experiencing a lot of challenges that come with that, managing 40 staff.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was in my late 20s at the time, you know, I didn't have a massive amount, you know, I didn't have the level of maturity and experience that I have today, is the honest answer.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say the 2016, the next two to three years were probably some of the toughest in terms of my career that I've experienced because it was just, it felt at the time like there was challenge after challenge, and it was kind of it was it felt a little bit like ground.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was just, you know, how do we break, how do we change this?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the problems as well, like I say, it wasn't just that I'd hit those the goals, it was also that we had made, and admittedly, bad decisions when it came to staff, not all of the staff, but we had some people in the team that were negative forces.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, I've only learned that through experience, that you've got to make sure that you've got, if you're planning on building a team, you have to make sure that you've got the right people around you.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was one thing.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: We had to focus on changing the team to make sure that everyone had the same common goal.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would also say that it became very apparent that I had um a lack of purpose.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like I'm running this business, there's all these challenges going on.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I doing it?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't really have a clear answer.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would also say I was burned out at the time.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been working for five years, you know, running a business, as I'm sure you know, Sam, especially in those initial phases, it is just work, you know, I was probably doing 80 hours a week for five years straight, not taking many holidays.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all of that just kind of built up, if you like.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, okay, what do I need to do to change this?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the steps that I took was okay, I had to go on a journey in terms of why am I doing this?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I had to figure that out.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: What's my purpose?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd now say that my purpose in running a business is seeing others develop and seeing others thrive.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's what motivates me now.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we've started an apprenticeship scheme.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have got um, you know, we take advisors sometimes that are outside of the industry, see them start and in two, three years progress to being amazing.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what makes me tick now.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: So my purpose and why I do what I do has drastically changed.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I had to go on a path of rediscovery to work out what it is that makes me really tick.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would also say that some of the changes that I made was about investing in myself as a person.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think going back to that 2016 period, um, again, feeling like I was in at the deep end with all this stuff, not quite knowing exactly how to um deal with that situation, I had to think, okay, how do I improve myself as a person?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: How can I build on my confidence?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because it takes a hell of a lot of confidence to run a team of over 40 people, some of which are more experienced than you, some of which, do you know what I mean?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're dealing with so many people from so many different walks of life.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: You have to, you have to learn skills to deal with that in the best way.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I have done a lot in terms of confidence building personally.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that that helped.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've also made lifestyle changes again in terms of the burnout.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I made sure.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: That I um exercise regularly, I have cut down alcohol Monday to Friday, you know, things like that.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very much a big believer of um keeping healthy, keeping fit.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: That helps me to be on my A game personally, eating right, training right.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: These are all things that are important to me.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I also feel that a lot one of the other changes I made was not being afraid of failing.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's quite a big part of my journey.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like probably six, seven years ago, I would hold back, trying new things, doing new things out of fear that it might fail, might not go the way I want it to go.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I've learned, again, probably the hard way with that, that failure is absolutely normal.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's what should happen.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: You can't progress unless you do things and fail.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think once you accept that, you get to a point where your confidence levels just, you know, start going.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Using this podcast, for example, you know, a lot of people say to me, Oh, you do a lot of content creation, you know, you're on, you do TV interviews, etc.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you get the confidence from to do those things?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: That was not always me.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think sometimes people think you just wake up out of bed one day.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And don't get me wrong, some people are like that, they're naturally, you know, confident, don't care, you know, and that's great for those people, but it's certainly something that I've had to actively work on.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I have no shame in saying that because I think that if there's something in your life that you can see is holding you back, work at it.
• 23:33
  unknown: Right.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Look at the results that you want.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Nico, there's so much in what you just said that I can relate to.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I love bringing, I love bringing business owners onto this podcast.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I need to do more of it because there's so much that I learn through listening to your experience and how you share that so honestly, because it gives me reassurance that the things that I feel and have felt along the way, I'm not alone, right?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I've gone through it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the people are listening to this podcast well, they're listening to you, and they're thinking, oh God, because on the outside looking at you, Nicola, on the outside perhaps looking at me, you know, we've got these podcasts, we've got video content going out, we look like we're holding it together.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: But what people seem to forget is that behind the scenes, there's a lot of pressure, there's a lot of plate spinning, there's a lot of sleepless nights.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was up at four o'clock this morning writing an email.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we we we like anybody else, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're employed or self-employed, you're still balancing and managing things and it is stressful.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't what it looks like when you put out that post, is it?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: People, you know, people see the finished product, if you like, um, and think and don't see the hard work that goes on behind that.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely agree.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things there that I need to come back to because it's so relatable and I think it's a life lesson for everybody that is listening to this podcast.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's called self-reflection, right?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: You had to hold the mirror up to yourself.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: You got to a point where you thought, if I achieve this, I'm gonna feel fantastic.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, you achieved it and you started feeling not fantastic.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: You started feeling like you didn't have a direction and you are unsure what your actual purpose in life was, and you had to find that.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that comes through deep reflection.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: That comes through taking the mirror, holding it up to yourself and saying, well, what am I doing that's impacting how I'm feeling right now?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you start to look at your fears, don't you?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: You start to look at your fears, you start to look at those resentments that you might be holding, whether they're against other people or even against yourself, or they could even be against things that happened years and years and years ago, back in your past, that you think of the they're things that might be driving me forward in a negative way or down the wrong pathway.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to confront them.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: So know thy self is one thing that I think is massively important to anybody at any stage in their life.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: The best project you can work on is yourself.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So get that inventory out, go and get that counseling, go and take a good hard look at yourself and work out exactly who you are, what you've been holding on to, and what is it you're actually striving to achieve?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the biggest questions, and I love you said it, is your why?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you doing it?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's motivating you and what's your purpose?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because we can all put ourselves into too much of a camp.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: You could be a real rescuer, right?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: You could be somebody that you want to help others all the time.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're spending 99 billion of your time just trying to people please everybody else, then that 1% of looking after yourself isn't happening.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, you're only going to burn yourself out, you're going to get resentful, right?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: There has to be balance and there has to be, you know, uh an awareness of self to recognize when that glass is running out of energy under that section.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, Sam.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Looking after yourself.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Some people perceive that as selfish, it's far from.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, 100%.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, somebody gave me a really good analogy once, you know, when they give you the safety briefing briefings when you're on an aeroplane, they'll tell you to put your mask on first before you help others.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not the best version of you, how can you assist and support other people?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that really stuck with me.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I completely agree.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to work on being the best version of you before you can start leading and encouraging and influencing and helping and supporting other people.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that, Nicola.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being honest around that and sharing that because you know that is the reality of it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it took me, you know, a similar situation to you, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: I gave up, I well, I actually gave up drinking alcohol four years ago, right?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I did it for a 12-step, completely got rid of it because it was affecting my mental health and it was holding me back.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now that was a hard process.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to give up drinking alcohol for about 10 years because I was your classic Friday night, Saturday night binge drinker, went out, got on it, felt like shit all week, didn't do well at work, bad relationships, because I was putting myself into a state of depression and anxiety, wasting my money, being resentful, living in the past, all those typical types of things, right?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that was one of the major things that I did that allowed me to shift and start to look at myself because I went through a 12-step process.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And a part of that is self-reflection, right?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: You had to look at that self-reflection, look at my habits, look at my all of those typical things.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And when I did that, it allowed me to open up.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: It allowed me to, because I cleaned my act up, if you like, started exercising, weightlifting, running, adding all this, sleeping better, right?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Eating better.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: These are things that if you get those right, your life is a million times better.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Your energy levels are a million times better, your relationships are a million times better.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it's that I love the fact that you, the self-awareness to not just recognize what the problem is, but to make a change and set the boundaries.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, Nicola, again, it's a really important lesson for people to learn.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you're going to run a business right, I always liken it to the fact that you have to be an athlete.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to train like an athlete to be a business owner because it's a bit like a you know, you look at somebody who drives a Formula One car, right?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: They've got bodies like you wouldn't believe, cardio like you wouldn't believe.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yet they're sat in a car driving it around a track.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't have to, they don't have to run around, but they have to be on it mentally and physically.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that is one of the biggest keys to being a success in any job is to be physically, spiritually, mentally fit.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't agree with you more, Sam.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Great stuff.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, what gets you excited about running the business?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about that, Nicola, because obviously running a business can be stressful.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's harder.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: We've all just talked about that, right?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: But boo-hoo, we get over it, don't we?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because we lean into it and we accept it.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me about what gets you excited about running a business.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what gets me excited now is quite a few things actually.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I love marketing, I love presenting, I love content creation.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I should mention, so going back to the question you asked previously, it's so important to make sure that you're doing what you love.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, going back to that period in 2016-17, I again, one of the other changes I made, which I didn't mention, was we implemented middle management to our business.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we've now got a management team that consists of six managers that help us to shoulder some of those day-to-day burdens that come with running a business, you know, your HR, all of those things, that's made a massive difference.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And what that's allowed me to do is incorporate more of the things that I love.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong, every, you know, everything that you do, you're going to have tasks that you don't enjoy as much as others.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's just life, absolutely.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: But again, if you get to the point where you think, you know what, there's just all these challenges and things coming at me, you've got to make changes to think this, you know, I've got to love what I do.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I have to.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's essential, in my opinion.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I love marketing and presenting.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I say, with the fact that we've now restructured our business, that allows me to spend probably half a day to a day a week on doing those things.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's a large part of what I I love.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I love developing and educating others, as I mentioned.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple of years ago we took on our first apprentices and it's gone so well that we've built on that and we've recruited more.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's I I absolutely love it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, seeing someone come just out of school and now today, actually, one of the two, one of the two ladies that we hired as our first apprentices, she's got her role play today to be signed off to be a protection advisor, and she's sitting her R05 exam next week.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: She's um a fully qualified mortgage advisor, although she doesn't actually advise on mortgages just yet.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: But seeing her development is it just I love it.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love it.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: That really does keep me going.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, I'll give you another example.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, part of the team I have um my brother, I brought into the business a couple of years ago.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: He was working at Jaguar Land Rover, he had never done a role that was face-to-face, something completely new to him.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he's gone in the space of two years from having his first job talking to a client to being our top seller in the space of two years.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: And again, when I see the dedication, the focus, the commitment, the drive that he's applied to the role and seen how that's transformed him.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: He even said to me recently, he's he's it's been life-changing for him.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, he's grown.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's not just about the financial rewards that he's got from the role, it's about him growing as a person.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I feel like I've become, you know, an adult in the last couple of years, if you like.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's just amazing seeing him in the last two years, seeing that growth and having him say that it's changed his life, that makes me feel really happy and really good.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh mate, you should be so that I'm so pleased you said that.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Again, again, similarities between you and me is is unbelievable because that's one of the major motivators for me.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like within recruitment, you take people on in like a delivery function, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they're starting out, it's a bit like a trainee mortgage advisor or a paraplanner or whatever it might well be.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: So seeing somebody that goes through that process who has no experience of how to recruit, for example, all of a sudden stepping up to the role of being like a senior recruitment consultant where they're managing client relationships and doing their own business development, you know, and you're taking somebody in and you sit in an interview and you say, you know, how much would you like to earn in the future?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh God, I'd love to earn 30 grand or 35 grand.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, how about sort of 60,000?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you say to them, look, I'm gonna line something out in front of you.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna take you this long to get there, though, all right?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if you work your socks off, you're gonna get there.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you listen to me, if you do the things we tell you to do, you're gonna get there.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you have those people around you that are ready for it, right?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they are accountable and they'll do everything they can to actually do it, they will do it.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that pride you feel when you hire the right person who comes into the model and makes it work and doesn't make excuses, it's is like one of the most beautiful things about running a business.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: So people development is huge.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's why I got involved in the Financial Plan Alive podcast.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to, I wanted to attract new people to the financial planning profession, mortgage profession.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's a profession that's not attracting enough people.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's not enough good companies like you that are doing apprenticeships and supporting people at entry level, right?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's one of those reasons I wanted to get in.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: One of the reasons why, again, spoiler alert, I'm bringing out the you know, the Financial Planner Life Academy.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's because I want to be inspiring and training and developing people because it makes me bloody happy seeing people be happy in a career that's fulfilling for them.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the knock-on effect is A, they feel good, but what a great knock-on effect.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's their family that feels good.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe their lifestyle improves.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just I love seeing and developing people who put 110% in.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: So Nicola, what I want to ask you at this point, because I think it's a prime opportunity, right?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know what it's like to bring somebody and he's got no experience.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: You also probably know what it's like to bring somebody and he's got experience.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And just because they got experience doesn't mean they're going to do the be brilliant at the job, right?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, what do you think?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's listening here now, they're thinking about becoming in a mortgage advisor, for instance, right?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think they need to have to make it in the mortgage world to be a to be a success?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's your sort of recipe for success then?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: What do your brothers, what did your brother do, for example?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the recipe for success is about analysing your performance.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: As you said, holding that mirror up and saying, what have I done well in that appointment?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: What have I done not so well?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: And continuously developing and improving.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: That I think is the most important thing.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in my experience, because I've hired many brokers over the years, I couldn't name how many.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: The ones that have been successful have been the ones that are always striving to be the best that they can be.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's those advisors that just aren't really interested in improving their sales techniques, or do you know what I mean?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's those advisors that that just think that I can do the job, so why would I bother kind of building on it and trying to get better?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: They're the people in my experience that don't tend to be as successful.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I'll use Nathaniel, my brother, as an example, even though he is top seller and he got a promotion last week as well.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, he's now one of our senior associates.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: But um, he is still, even as one of the top sellers, if an appointment doesn't go his way, why didn't it go my way?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let me speak to my colleagues, what could I have done better?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the key features of this new product, I'm going to proactively go and read it and revise it so that I know, you know, knowledge that is a very, very important one.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the amount of um, as I'm sure you know, Sam, in the industry, there's a lot of work to be done on upskilling mortgage advisors specifically on protection.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've hired quite a few mortgage advisors that say that they do protection, but then actually when it comes to it, their knowledge on the providers is just not where it needs to be in order to provide the best service.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I think that knowledge is a key component as well.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when you learn about products and you said about uh protection there, okay, some people don't really have the life experience to really understand why protection should be offered, okay?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: They don't, you know, if someone's quite young and so I used to work for Aviva.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I said that was pretty much one of my first jobs.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a I was I worked in the customer service team.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I used to listen to calls from clients of Aviva who've just lost a husband or just lost a partner, right?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I would understand and I would understand the the emotional impact that it had on that individual.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And within that Aviva business, we were then trained by the claims team to understand the importance of life protection, critical illness cover, income replacement plans.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we really got to understand what it's there for, the peace of mind that it gives people, right?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I think often than not, when someone comes into like a mortgage role, they're fixated on the mortgage because, especially if you're younger, because you see a house as being something of value, right?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: You see it being like the thing you have to get.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're all driving towards buying a house, it ticks that box, doesn't it?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't think too deeply about the actual protection.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: But also the experience they've had in life doesn't sort of lend to the fact that they can empathize or even predict to empathize what might happen if life protection isn't there.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: So from that, you have to seek experience, right?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to get training, you have to get development, you have to learn about why it's so important, the things that might well happen to that person if they don't take life protection on a mortgage.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's crazy.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: If there's a mortgage advisor out there now and all they're doing is selling mortgages and they're not selling life protection, why aren't you doing that?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because A, it's a fantastic opportunity to deepen the relationship with that client, show that you care.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now, don't get me wrong, I went through a mortgage part and you're spending so much bloody money, aren't you, on a mortgage?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're buying a house, you've got to get the solicitor, all the other stuff that goes with it.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you do feel quite overwhelmed with the costs.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when someone as a mortgage advisor starts positioning life protection to you, oh, that's an extra£50 a month and this, that.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing you think is like, I can't afford that right this second.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there is that challenge, isn't there, and that objection to be able to position it in the way that it's like, look, it's about you having to budget for this because guess what?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Your wife's not gonna, your partner's not gonna be able to afford to pay the mortgage if you get out of work or you die or something like that.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: So what's gonna happen in that situation?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about educating how you position it in the right way, would you say?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would also going back to what you mentioned in terms of what makes an advisor successful, if we're talking about protection specifically, um, then I would say it's about not being afraid to have those awkward conversations.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I genuinely think that a large part of the problem in the industry as to why protection is not as um advisors are not selling enough of it, mortgage advisors typically, um, is because a lot of advisors are afraid to have the conversation.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you're right.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's just my honest, you know.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen enough, like I say, I've recruited enough brokers over the years to know that that's the main reason in my experience.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that again, as brokers, we need to reframe how we're looking at protection because, in my opinion, it's the foundation to any solid financial planning.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you, you know, without income protection, without having an income, you can't pay your pet to a pension, you can't pay those the mortgage payments.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Everything starts with protection.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's the foundation, is how we see it.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, most definitely I would say that not being afraid to have the conversation is advice I would give to any mortgage brokers that are not talking to their clients about protection.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: And as I'm sort of mentioned previously, um Financial Plan of Life Studios to produce the podcast for Legal in General just covered, and that's what you were on.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the Just Covered podcast interviews people like you, because you were on it, and you're talking about how best to position protection.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: So anybody listening here and they're looking for some sales advice or they're looking for some ways to position it or some experience, et cetera, to get on that just covered podcast with Legal in General, check it out.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll also see the work that we're doing with them as well, which is really, really cool.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, right, brilliant.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, you alluded to the fact that you absolutely love marketing, right?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: You as well, like media, marketing, um, presenting, all those typical types of things.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Nicola, you've got your YouTube channel, podcasting, you're always on podcast, you're on mine today, right?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're always presenting, you're always out there doing it.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just tell us a little bit about why you feel like you have to do that.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is it personal brand?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is it to drive the brand awareness of your company?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what is typically like the return on investment on something like that for you?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I feel that we need to do it because it, for all the reasons you've just mentioned, Sam, I think it's great for brand awareness, but it's more so about when we look at our target market, you know, we're targeting certainly a lot of the online stuff.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: So the YouTube channel is mainly geared towards um attracting mortgage clients.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, a first-time buyer, first-time buyers are our you know, target market.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: What's the typical age of a first-time buyer is 25 to 35.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: We know this.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Where are most 25 to 35 year olds?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: They are online, they are Googling things.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: What they're not doing is looking through, you know, that that's how they find their information.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're on Instagram, they're on YouTube, they're the main platforms.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if I know that, why wouldn't I be on those platforms?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is the point.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's a large part of it.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's where our target market are is, but I also do thoroughly enjoy it.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: You enjoy doing it.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, it ticks up again that intrinsic box about A, being innovative, enjoying going back to that sort of degree that you did, that that desire when you were younger to also get into presenting, media, et cetera.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm I'm the same, you know.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: When I got into doing this sort of thing, I I found myself, I found it really nerve-wracking.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: I found it quite difficult to do.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing that I had to do really was just to keep on going.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: So every week I set I was consistent with my podcast every week.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I started just by doing one thing, which is the podcast every week.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look back over my podcast, you can see the evolution about how better and better and better it's got to the point now where I'm sat in a studio, you know, doing the podcasts.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, um, I think like when someone looks on the outside at someone like me or you, right, they'll say, Wow, they've got it all together.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why should I even bother starting?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like too competitive.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: What would be your tip for just saying that if someone's listening to this right now, they want to do some personal brand stuff, they want to get on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, they want to be that person.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think your tip would be to them just to get started?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: It would be to just start, just do it.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly what you said, Sam.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: I still do have access.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not visible on my YouTube channel anymore because I don't, I don't like it.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: I hate it actually.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: My very first video.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: But if I was to go back and watch it, I remember it very Clearly, you know, I'm sat there looking really scared, like you can just barely hear me.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, hi, I'm Nicola.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not the person that I am today.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that video was only four years ago, it wasn't that long ago.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, again, it's a case of you have to accept that the first time you do it, it's not going to be perfect.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the first time you saw a mortgage client, you were not perfect.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing, you're not going to just wake up out of bed one day and be the finished article.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's just not how life works.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that you have to get comfortable with that concept and also understand that, like you said, it's a journey.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I again um I've gone on a confidence-building journey, if if you want to call it that.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I to become more confident at public speaking, that was something that I really wanted to improve on.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and it helps with presenting my YouTube channel.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually took part in singing lessons randomly.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because I like to sing, this was only maybe four or five years ago I did this.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: I like singing, but also I had never spoken in public before.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided one day I'm gonna drive to an open mic night and I'm going to stand there and I'm going to sing.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: What's the worst that can happen?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to die, hopefully.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm still going to be alive at the end of it.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: It will be fine.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: And for about a year, I travelled and did open mic nights again, in part to build my confidence in terms of public speaking, presenting, um, but also because it's something that I enjoyed, and that did wonders for my public speaking skills.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolute wonders.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I can relate to that as well?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: I did the men's mental health awareness day for St.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not only did they want me on as a speaker, they wanted me to host it.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so you can imagine I had a story, I had quite a powerful personal story around why I, you know, want, you know, why I believe in men's mental fitness and why men should look at it and all of that kind of stuff.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really honest, you know, like my you know, I've got a room full of men, women as well, and I'm pouring my heart out and telling them something which is hyper-personal to me.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: The anxiety I felt towards going into that, although purpose-led, I was confident because it was my true story and I truly believed in what I was talking about would help people.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I was willing to get vulnerable in that situation.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: But when I did it, and I and I and the response I got from people around how it impacted them.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: I had people sending me messages saying, Thank you so much for that.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: My son's going through something similar.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm gonna get him to watch this video and put him across to Talk Club, the men's mental fitness charity.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: My confidence grew so much.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, public speaking is terrifying anyway, right?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, we're worried that we're able to muck up, we're not gonna be taken seriously, no one knows what we're talking about, or we imposter syndrome comes on like you wouldn't believe, right?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: But like you doing that, just do you know what?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like um a spiritual experience, right?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: That that that that person inside you who's scared of doing it, once you do it, it's like it leaves you.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: It it's like a weight off your shoulder.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I genuinely felt it come out of my chest.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: When you talk about chakras and the heart chakra, it was like I felt this thing, this this old belief, this lie I was telling myself that I couldn't do it, just explode from my body.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what was left was the new me.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, okay, it's not as bad as I thought.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you crack on and go another one and then another one.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly how it works.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: You you start to understand that, and even now, so yeah, you know, public speaking, like I say, it's it's something that honestly would have, if you'd have asked me 10 years ago, could I stand in front of a room of three, four hundred people, I would have said, I can't imagine ever being able to do that.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: You do it the first time, it's scary as hell.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was for me, I'm sure.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not the only person to say it's scary as hell, but then you do it and you think I'm still alive at the end of it, and it's absolutely fine.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then you keep doing it and you become familiar with that feeling.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's less scary.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and again, that's a journey that I've been on, and I singing lessons, putting myself in those situations where I feel you know out of my comfort zone.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be uncomfortable in those situations, you have to get used to being uncomfortable.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um that in my experience is what's led to my growth personally, is just getting used to throwing myself in those situations.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's done wonders for me.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: I always try to live in a in a percentage of my life is always in a state of uncomfortableness.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty much what I try to do.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I can aware that change is uncomfortable, as soon as I was aware that change was uncomfortable and the uncomfortable feeling was normal, then it was like it was quite freeing.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, like again, if anyone's listening here and they're thinking about doing something, they're starting a new job or they've just started their business and they're feeling uncomfortable.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the world of being uncomfortable.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy it, lean into it.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: What are you learning from it?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because every step of growth is uncomfortable.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's as simple as that.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Once you start getting comfortable with the uncomfortable, that's when you start to become an absolute demon and you start to kind of really, really own it.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: And go back to the point you mentioned, sorry um, to interrupt your sound, but you said about, you know, when you're standing there in front of a room of people, you're thinking, How am I going to be perceived?
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is it going to go okay?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: All of these thoughts as well, it's only from experience and you know, listening to many different podcasts about self-development that I've come to learn that most people feel the same.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it until you know that, you think that you're abnormal.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you think, oh, okay, well, I don't want to do that because surely I'm out of place having these thoughts.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the way it should be.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you you get to a stage where you think, no, no, no, the most confident people or people might appear confident.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong, there are people out there that are like that, absolutely fine.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: But most people, if they're standing in front of a room of 300 others, are going to have feelings of self-doubt.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just understanding that that's normal and it's going to aid your development rather than seeing it as a hindrance and stopping you from doing things and progressing.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can't progress without feeling uncomfortable.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've never seen anybody that's been successful at something without being uncomfortable at times.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Beautifully articulated, Nikolaya, 100%.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to set up a business with you.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're on the same page, you and me.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything you're saying, I'm I've been going through.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very typical, isn't it?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the beautiful thing about conversations like this, because our sharing to each other allows us, A, to learn from each other's experience, but again, to get that reassurance, identification that, you know, you're not in it alone.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're all in it together.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I absolutely love that.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to ask you there about marketing.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: A bit of a barrier to entry to people doing the actual like um podcasts or uh setting up um their YouTube channels or whatever it might well be, is a barrier to entry is usually like time it takes, right?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, let's admit that, Nicola.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a lot of time creating content.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: But also because I don't see an instant return on investment in respect of, oh, I put a post out, I've got three likes.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: It took me three hours to do that, um, and I've got no business off the back of it, tend to give up quite easily.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, so people then get approached by SEO wizards and experts and you know, peep pay per click and all of that kind of stuff.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now, historically, hasn't really worked for me.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: Things like SEO, not too bad actually on the website.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I do I've invested a bit of money in that and it's allowed me to have move up the ranks.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think Google's like pretty old school these days.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think most of the most of the way to win new clients, right, is all about communities, it's about followings, it's about YouTube channels, it's about podcasts, right?
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's my personal opinion, right?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll just kind of kind of if someone's got a barrier to entry around money, right?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they're thinking, should I pay for SEO, should I pay for pay for click, or should I just invest in some uh, I don't know, Sam Oak's doing the podcasts for me or whatever it might well be.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: What would your advice be?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: What's your experience based on organic versus paying for somebody uh to do it for you, as opposed to investing your time and the smaller probably amount of money into uh creating videos, content, etc., for social media?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely the organic route is what I would recommend for somebody.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I like yourself, Sam, we've tried paying people for things like SEO, pay-per-click, all of those things.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just never really materialized the way that we would want it to.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um we recently even, so we started our TikTok page maybe a year ago now, um, and we did hire a firm to help us with some of the um, you know, boosting some of the posts, etc.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it just didn't work.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a gamble, isn't it?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it is, it is.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I most certainly think obviously I'm a big believer in social media and and posting and putting yourself out there, but I think that money shouldn't be a barrier to entry.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that you should need to just, if it's something you want to do seriously, you need to just allocate the time to do it.
• 53:11
  unknown: Yep.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's not me, you know.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you know, once your company gets to a level when you've got, you know, if you're a really successful company and you've got the budget there, then absolutely fine.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: But even when you've got the budget there, in terms of content creation, I do think that that needs to come from an advisor.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we've got marketers that sometimes write blogs for us, and it just never worded in the way that a mortgage advisor would word it.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like because of the nature of what we do, there's always an element that you're going to have to be pretty hands-on with any social media content creation.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna fire out of a bit of a tip here, I think, for everybody listening.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, maybe you're you're if I share it with you, you can relate to it, it might help you a little bit.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, you know, we talked about his price pressing record.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's about maximizing, it's about maximizing the reach with your content that you create.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: How can I, how can I record a podcast episode, turn that podcast episode into an article or multiple articles, turn that podcast episode into social clips, get them resized for different social media platforms.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Can I use that in part of my email marketing social outreach?
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's about maximizing the amount you do with that piece of content you create.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just gonna record yourself, pop it onto your Instagram and hope you're gonna win business, good luck on that.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna take you a long time because you need a big, big following.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: You need to diversify, you need to maximize what you do with that content to give yourself the best chance of being seen and being heard.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Another tip I would say is like it's you don't put money in a pension and draw it out the next year, right?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to wait for that money to um build and accumulate wealth, okay?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's exactly the same with content.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's an asset.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: When you have a following, it grows over time.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now you have to feed that following content.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: In your first 25, 30 posts, people probably don't get to know you.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to 50, they start to get to know you.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, not being arrogant.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: I can pick up the phone to somebody and start going, oh Sam, yeah, I know who you are, financial planner life.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had somebody on from um Psalters on the podcast that Elena interviewed, and I and I knew her anyway.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I reached out to her and said, Lovely seeing you on the podcast, Alice.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Well done on the podcast.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: You must be really proud.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: When I said to people in the office that I was going to be on it, everybody knew what it was.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now that hasn't come from I've been doing that for three years, Nicola.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this year is the year that I've really noticed.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting people come to me wanting to partner with me.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting coming come to me, wanting to spend money with me to be seen on my platform.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting noticed.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: That do you know the first two years, guess how much money I made, Nicola?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Go on, enlighten me.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Minus Okay, yeah.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't make any money for two years.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people need to understand that it's not gonna bring those instant results.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna add in another tip actually to build on that, Sam.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you're exactly right in terms of repurposing content.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I was listening to um Gary V.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: He um he said that when you're filming, so we do YouTube, which is obviously long form content.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm doing a video for 15 minutes, um I did an interview the other day on the channel.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in that 15-minute interview, I must have asked seven or eight questions.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: So to re-edit that, break it down into smaller chunks, and then repost it to my same YouTube channel again is an easy way to create more content.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: But for it to look like you've done, you know, you've spent still spent a similar amount of time on it.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I haven't actually taken up that tip yet because I only heard it a few weeks ago.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but that's something that we're planning to do, you know, taking a larger interview, posting it in full, and then chopping it up, reposting it to the same channel is useful for people because not everyone's gonna watch the full interview necessarily, um, but they might want to just see the part where you spoke about that or this, you know.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just getting the most out of the time that you're spending creating the content in the first place.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna have another tip on Twitch.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mentioned there about taking like a podcast, for example, and then cutting it up and making it into an article.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one thing that everyone should be taking advantage of when it comes to content creation, if you if you switch over on LinkedIn to LinkedIn Creator, you will have access to a newsletter.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you can start creating your own newsletter.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: When you create that newsletter, it goes out to all your connections and all your followings, right?
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then straight away you start to build a following of your newsletter.
• 57:45
  unknown: Okay.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, also as well, when you then create a newsletter on LinkedIn, it ends up in the inbox of their emails and in their um notifications that your new uh article has come out.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, to kind of give you an idea, so I've got about 4,000 and 100 or something like that following my financial plan alive newsletter.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now that built up over about, I don't know, 10 articles, which is amazing.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: When I go through that follower list, 95% of those are relevant followers.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they are choosing to follow me and they're relevant.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if I put out an article, let's say, for example, I got four, four thousand uh and a hundred uh followers on there, the open rate to it is insane.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: So impressions-wise, I might get say two thousand seven hundred.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's people seeing it that aren't even following me.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: But once they've opened it, I can then see how many people have read it.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm finding is I'm getting over 60% read rate.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds good to me.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you know when you send like an email marketist, I've got a database of 29,000 on my recruitment uh database.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if I was to do exactly that and send that out on my recruitment database, guess what would happen?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: I would get more unsubscribes.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: So people don't unsubscribe from me.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because they do, because people don't really like their inbox, they fell up a bit, right?
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't subscribed, they're not interested, they're not engaged with it.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to use their trying to do their bloody work, right?
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: They unsubscribe, so they feel negatively about me.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: The open to read rate is so low compared to to compare.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I find email marketing a massive risk unless you are really targeting individuals with personalized messages.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas on the news, whereas the newsletter on LinkedIn organically grows and the people that are following it follow you because they like you and they like your stuff.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: Very useful tip.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to take that one.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beauty, that one.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's an absolute beauty.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: How often do you send the newsletters on LinkedIn?
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask?
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you've got to think so.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: If I do like four podcast episodes in a month, there you go.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's four four four newsletters.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what I do is I take the podcasts.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, I want to our conversation now would be about like marketing.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I might do one about marketing.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: I quote you in it, so I tag you in it.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic promotion for you.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: We build a deeper relationship, fantastic.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: You start buying services from me, uh, Nicola.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then also, as well, obviously, I put the YouTube video in there as well.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: So people can then see the work that I'm doing, also.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: They get to see you and me.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that piggyback marketing that works so well.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I love podcasting.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I love the video work.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I like collaboration.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about finding the people in your space that are the um key people of influence.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would look at someone like you as becoming the key person of influence within Will's trusts and mortgages.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's within my interest to establish my my connection with you.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: So your network sees me as the key person of influence to careers within the financial planning profession.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the key people.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a model, key person of influence, by Daniel Priestley.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't read that book, read it because you're doing it.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the model is beautiful.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: And anybody can pick that model up and develop themselves as a key person of it.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone's a mortgage advisor and they want to be a key person of influence within the sporting profession, it will create a model for you that you follow that over time you will become that key person of influence.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: I followed it and I'm becoming a key person of influence within the financial planning profession.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's time for another tip.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: I will read that book.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: Really good tip.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, Nicola, I just want to finish off um the podcast just to find out a little bit about some of the technology that you've been building that's helping other financial advisors around estate planning.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, as part of the DM group, we do have in-house an in-house software team, actually.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot to mention that earlier, but um we've got a team of four software developers in-house, and their full-time job is to work on software.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we have created our our own internal CRM systems, but one of the really great tools they've created over the last few years is my lastwill.co.uk, which is essentially an online will writing platform that we offer complimentary to our clients.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it works fantastically as a lead generation tool.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also again, going back to what I mentioned, our holistic approach, when we're doing life insurance for someone, it's so important that they have a will in place for obvious reasons.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that tool is something that we've built and it's a great tool, so much so that it's actually become very popular for other mortgage and protection brokers who um also use the service to offer to their clients.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it works great as a lead generation tool, but also just to make sure that that client's getting that quality service.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love it.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, innovation comes very naturally to you.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're sort of a bit like me again, you're spinning lots of plates.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're always thinking about ways you can innovate um other revenue streams as well, obviously, for you.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's massively important, that diversification.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: But again, what that does is it builds that credibility, um, establishes you as a thought leader within the profession.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: Also, so that must be that must work wonders also for your recruitment strategy because they're thinking people are outside looking in, thinking this is a great company to go and work for.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing great things.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that once all of a sudden they're like, well, aren't my company doing that?
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: They get a bit disgruntled.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: What are they gonna do?
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna compare what it's like there over at uh um with with Nicola, you know, so why not?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: And going on to the diversification you've mentioned, that's we've always been a big believer in diversification, not just from a client's perspective, in terms of you know, making sure that we're doing the best job that we can for our clients, but also from a revenue perspective, you know, to be um to be robust as a business.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: Again, if I'm just doing mortgages and I'm doing nothing else, and the market, you know, we all know the last six months hasn't been the smoothest time.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: So again, as a business though, we don't worry in those times because we know that we've got solid, you know, we've got having income streams from from so many different things.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it it helps it helps give us as business owners a lot more peace of mind.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's exactly why I'm exactly why I'm doing it.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not all your eggs in one basket, you know.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: And there are plenty of ways to diversify.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Nicola, I'm gonna have to bring it to an end right here.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: I could talk to you literally all day long, I think.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of similarities here, and I'm gonna I'm really looking forward to forging and building a deeper relationship with you because you're somebody that I want within my circle because A, you're doing such fantastic things, and I think that again, from a relationship perspective, we can benefit each other massively.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, Nicola, I just want to thank you so much for sharing your journey, being so honest.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna inspire our listeners, it's inspired me, and um just thank you so much, Nicola.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the opportunity to be here.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, as always, it's been a pleasure, Sam.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Nicola.