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Assault · Inside the Criminal Process

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: When somebody gets arrested, do they get released from jail if the officer did not read them their Miranda rights?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you really only get one phone call when you go to jail?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Can the police make your neighbor stop parking in front of your house?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Inside the Criminal Process, a podcast where I'll discuss and explain the criminal justice system in America using real-life examples and true crime cases.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Scott.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a 29-year veteran law enforcement officer and a licensed attorney.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have worked as a patrol officer, a crime scene investigator, a field training officer, a detective, a parole officer, an investigator, a polygraph examiner, a crisis negotiator, and an administrator.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've also taught college-level criminal justice classes.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So in the last episode, I was actually talking, I talked about the heat of passion defense in murder, second-degree murder.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: So and I stated that that defense only affects the level of felony of the crime.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: So what that means is that it's not a true defense.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't completely absolve the suspect from criminal liability.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a possible mitigating factor that could lower the class of the offense.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So in the state that I live in and worked, there were uh the felonies, I told you those are the more serious crimes, and they're broken down from class one to class six.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: So a class one felony is the highest level felony in the state, and it can result if there's a conviction in a life sentence without the possibility of parole.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Those client crimes include first-degree murder, first-degree murder of a peace officer or emergency service provider, first-degree kidnapping and treason.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the death penalty was abolished in in this state in July of 2020.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the that's the harshest sentence you can get is life without parole.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: For juveniles that commit class one felonies, um they get sentenced to life, but they can be parole eligible after 40 years.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So a class two felony carries a possible sentence if you're convicted of eight to twenty fours, followed by a three or five-year mandatory parole period.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if it was a crime of violence that you were commit convicted for, it's a five-year period of parole.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: All others, it's a three-year period of parole.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And just so you're clear, parole and probation are two different things.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Parole is post-incarceration supervision as opposed to probation.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Probation is an actual sentence.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So in and of itself, you can get sentenced to probation.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have to report to a probation officer, do your UAs, get a job, do all that stuff.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not following those conditions of your probation, you can be sent to jail or prison.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So a sentence for a class three felony, the presumptive range is four to twelve years with a mandatory three years of parole supervision.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Class four felony, minimum sentence of two years, six years maximum, followed by three years of mandatory parole.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: For a class five felony, if found guilty, you could receive a sentence from one to two to three years, and two years of mandatory parole.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then a conviction for a class six felony could result in a sentence of one year to eighteen months in prison and a mandatory parole term of one year.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to clarify that because I know I said the heat of passion only affects the level of felony, and that's what I was that's what I was referring to.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So today I'm going to talk about a case I responded to when I was a new detective, and it was initially called out, we got called out as an assault, an assault case.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So my uncle used to say nothing good happens after midnight.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I hear that a lot.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't the he didn't come up with that on his own, but uh I've heard it a lot throughout the years, and I I tend to believe it.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's either, you know, it's usually midnight or after that something something bad is happening.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So early one Saturday morning I got I got called.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there was a apartment complex in an area of the city.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't particularly dangerous, uh, and it didn't have an ex the that part of the city didn't have an extraordinarily high crime rate.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: But we got called to an apartment building on on an assault.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I responded to the to the apartment complex.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um there was an area roped off with crime scene tape outside of the apartment building on the opposite end from where the apartment in question was located.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we went to the apartment apartment, it was set up where you enter, you go into an entryway, and there's three separate doors for three different apartments, um, left, middle, and right, basically.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this apartment was on the far right.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when we entered, there was quite a bit of blood inside the apartment, um, and a huge collection of knives, swords, daggers, etc.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them were in display racks, others were just laid out on counters and shelves.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the knife used to inflict the wounds was a large sharp knife with a handle that looked like brass knuckles.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've seen brass knuckles, you put your four fingers in in there, um, and then the blade stuck up off of the handle.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: But it was uh it was a pretty menacing looking knife.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: The resident of the apartment had been taken to the police station.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: He was being interviewed by one of the senior detectives.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um he was uh he had blood all over him.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: He was hysterical, didn't really know what was going on.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: He was claiming that he didn't know these people, and these guys just, you know, showed up at an apartment.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So they were trying to calm him down and try to get a statement from him.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um we were knocking on doors, trying to see if there were any witnesses, and I I was directed by the the sergeant to respond to the hospital.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one of the victims was being prepped for surgery, and I needed to collect his clothing and see if I could get a statement or any other evidence of what had happened.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the responding patrol officer had told me that when he arrived, there was a young man lying on the ground in that area that had been roped off with crime scene tape.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um he said the man's intestines had spilled out of his abdomen and and the the intestines were laying on the ground in the dirt, and his abdomen had been sliced open by that large knife that I described.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So on my way to the hospital, I received a call on the radio telling me that another man was in the emergency room of the same hospital and he had a hand injury that that he told the doctors was he was attacked and stabbed.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um I went to the the area where the man that had been disemboweled was, and he was already in surgery.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: His family was in the waiting room, the the mother, father, and sibling, and they were angry.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: They were demanding that we arrest the person who had done this and and throw the book at him.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: The father actually told me if if he got to the person first, he would take care of business.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I assured them the case was being investigated and that the police were uh we would do our due diligence to ensure the justice was done.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and right now we still have no idea really what's going on, other than that there's at least two people who've been stabbed by the resident of the apartment building of that apartment.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the family that was the the family was advised that due to the circumstances and the fact that his intestines were on the ground, uh there was a high risk of him developing an infection.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um so surgery was was they were gonna do all they could, obviously, to to help this guy, but uh but they knew they knew there was a big risk that uh that their son, brother could end up dying from from his injuries.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I get it.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean they're they're mad, they're angry, they don't know what happened, um, they're very emotional.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I took his clothing, I gave the family my contact information, and then I went down to the ER to talk to the man um the with the hand injury.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I go down there and uh he was lying in the bed on the room.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: I identified myself and introduced myself and asked him what happened.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: His thumb, like the webbing of his hand between his his his forefinger and thumb, had been just sliced all the way to the bone.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the the thumb looked like a little drumstick just hanging on barely.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was a it was a pretty gnarly injury.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I I asked him, I I said what you know, what happened.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So he tells me that um he and three friends had gone to the apartment of his ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, red flags, warning signs are going off like crazy in my head when I heard that.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: He told me that they had gone up to the apartment complex to retrieve a stereo that belonged to him, and that his ex had no business giving it to her no her new boyfriend.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So they weren't sure that they could save this guy's this guy's thumb.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um but the doctor was there.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to interview somebody in the in the middle of a of the ER like that, but he wasn't he wasn't in danger of of actually passing or anything, so I figured that uh I could talk to him later if if I needed to stop when they were trying to reattach that uh portion of his thumb.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So he told me that uh they went to the apartment at like 2 or 3 a.m.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: and knocked on the man's door.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: He said the man opened the door and immediately lunged out of the apartment, attacking and slashing and stabbing.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he had a large knife, and they were just outside the apartment in the entryway.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the man said that none of them ever made it into the into the apartment.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but since they were being attacked, they fled.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um he said that his one of his friends had been sliced open and his intestines had fallen out as they were running.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: He said he and two of the the other two friends jumped in their car and they drove him to the hospital.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they left the guy that had been sliced open there.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um he asked if we found his friend, and and I told him we had, and that he was currently in the in the in the hospital in surgery.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he asked if I had a chance to talk to the man before surgery.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of brushed the question off because I was suspicious that he wasn't telling the truth.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I was suspicious is because there had been no blood at the entryway of that apartment building or that apartment uh, yeah, that apartment, that specific apartment outside the the entryway.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: There was no blood.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: All of the blood was inside the apartment.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And this guy said that nobody had even gone in the apartment.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't even they hadn't even made it into the apartment.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually mirandized him, gave him his Miranda warnings, and he promptly said that he wanted to speak to an attorney.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I handcuffed him to the bed and notified him that he was under arrest, and we had an officer respond to the hospital to keep keep an eye on the guy so that he could be booked into jail when he was finished getting treated for his injury.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back to the station, talked to the detective that was interviewing the apartment resident.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: That resident had told the detective that he had been in bed, somebody knocked on his door, he said he looked through the peephole, and someone was covering it so he couldn't see.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: The man said that when his upstairs neighbor would visit him, he would do that.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: He would knock on the door and then put his thumb or his finger over the peephole.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he assumed it was him, his upstairs neighbor, and he opened the door.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: He said there were four men that he had never seen before.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't know.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't know his ex-girlfriend's or his girlfriend's ex-boyfriend.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he said they were standing there.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: They rushed him immediately, pushing him back into the apartment.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: He said they were beating him with their fists and kicking him.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he said he grabbed one of his knives and started making slashing movements in front of his body.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: He said they backed off a bit, but one man rushed in and he slashed across the man's body in the stomach area, and he said the man made an odd noise, looked at him, grabbed his belly, and took off.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: He said another man lunged towards him with his hand up, trying to grab the knife or his hand with the knife in it.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: He said he drew the knife back over his shoulder and brought it forward in a chopping motion and struck the man in the hand.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: He said that the man let out a cry, grabbed his hand with his other hand, and then he and the other two attackers, the remaining two attackers, took off out of the apartment.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: He said he then called the police.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: He said that he didn't know any of these men or why they attacked him.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: He thought they had the wrong person or that they were just gonna had picked him to rob.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um he was real emotional, obviously, upset, didn't know what was going on.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: He asked about the condition of the attacker several times and just kept saying that he was confused, he didn't know what happened, asking why this had happened.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, he had just been through a critical incident, so his reactions were real, not rehearsed.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: He was very credible when he was relating the story.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So with the information the man with the hand injury had provided, um, he basically provided all the information to fill in the gaps with the uh in the victim's story.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and so the the apartment resident went from suspect from first degree assault suspect to the uh to the victim.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he was quite relieved when the detective told him what we had learned about the attackers and and you know it all kind of made a little more sense to him.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so he was he was relieved.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So all four of the attackers were arrested and charged with first-degree burglary.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't a trial, so I'm assuming they either pled guilty to that or lesser charges.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we'll talk about first-degree burglary, what that says, and then I'll tell you the more important statute that we used in this case, which is commonly referred to as the make my day law.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So first degree burglary in in this state, I'm gonna read it directly.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh a person commits first degree burglary if the person knowingly enters unlawfully or remains unlawfully, after lawful or unlawful entry, in a building or occupied structure with intent to commit therein a crime other than trespass, as defined in this article, against another person or property.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if in affecting entry or while in the building or occupied structure or an immediate flight therefrom, the person or another participant in the crime assaults or menaces any person, the person or another participant is armed with explosives, or the person or another participant uses a deadly weapon or possesses and threatens the use of a deadly weapon.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's how all laws are written, and it's it can be really confusing.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but basically that very first part, they unlawfully entered this guy's apartment, they weren't welcome there, they they had the intent to commit commit a crime, which was assault.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's that's first degree burglary, so that's a class three felony, um, which is a pretty high-level felony.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So then we ended up letting the apartment resident go, obviously, and and that was based on there's a statute the title is Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that basically says, notwithstanding the previo provisions of this other section, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force against another person when that person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight against any occupant.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you got this guy here.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: These guys rush him, push him into his apartment, they're assaulting him.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: He absolutely, based on this statute, has the right to use physical force, which is in includes deadly physical force, which is what he used because it was a knife.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: So any time um the force that you use is likely to result in death or serious bodily injury, that's considered deadly physical force.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: But he had every right to.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So and it says any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with this provision, shall be immune from criminal prosecution for the use of such force.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's basically it for this case.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I just I thought it was interesting because we went there with the thought that this guy had had assaulted some people, and um and we were going to uh we were looking at him as the suspect, but then once we learned what had happened, and there were further interviews once everybody got arrested.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think everybody was in jail by Sunday evening, and and all but one of them had consented to or had had waived their rights and talked to us.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um most of them were blaming the guy with the with the hand injury for kind of taking them along, and they they were saying they didn't really want to do it, but they he was kind of their their ringleader.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so that's that case.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh answers to the questions that I asked.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the the whole thing about the Miranda rights, I don't know how many arrestees would would tell me either at the jail or as I was as I was walking away from from giving them, turning them over to the sheriffs that, you know, smug haha, you didn't read me my rights, so they're gonna have to release me.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know where this I don't know if if they get that from the movies or or television shows, but you don't have to mirandize everybody you arrest.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are under misunderstanding that when you get arrested, the police have to tell you your rights.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's not true.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: The police only have to tell you your rights when you're in custody and if they're interrogating you.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So custody is usually obvious, you know, usually you're in handcuffs.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Interrogation is basically law enforcement direct questioning that's likely to elicit an incriminating response.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if cop is interrogating you and you're in custody, they have to advise you of your Miranda rights.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you can either waive them or invoke them.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think I mentioned this in an earlier episode as well.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, but always know that custody and interrogation, you have to have both of those in order for Miranda to be required.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm gonna talk about more about Miranda in the next episode.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: The next question was phone calls.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you really only get one phone call from jail?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's a myth, in my experience.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there are no laws that I'm aware of that guarantee you right to a phone call, but typically once somebody gets processed into the jail, um, they're allowed to make whatever phone calls they need to make.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously, if you're processed in on a Friday night, it can take a while because the jail's usually pretty cr crowded on the weekends.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you also don't have your cell phone.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll have to know the number of the person you want to call.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: The uh Which is interesting because I always thought that was ridiculous when cell phones started becoming real big.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um people would say, Well, I don't know this person's phone number because it's all saved in the phone.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't s that wasn't the case when I was early in my career as a law enforcement officer.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So and typically inmates in prisons can make calls, but they have c accounts like you'll he'll pee he he'll pee he People's inmates say put money on my books.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's so that they can make those calls.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the number of calls is usually unlimited, but the calls themselves are limited.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think 20 minutes per call is it's what's allowed in the state prisons here.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they are all monitored, even in the jails and the prisons, calls are monitored except for attorney calls.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um law enforcement can't monitor attorney calls.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and like if if there's a death in the family or or somebody's notified of a of some unforeseen circumstance, usually at the prison they will allow them to use use a phone that they don't have to pay for.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So then um, and then the last question is can the police tell your neighbor to stop parking in front of your house?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh again, this was very common.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: We'd get called to to a neighborhood and somebody'd say, My neighbor keeps parking where I I want to park because it's right in front of my house.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: They don't they have their own spot, but they won't park in front of their house.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, and this caused a lot of anger.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: You tell people, look, it's a public public road.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: People can park wherever they want.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: You don't own the road in front of your house.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it may be annoying, but it's not illegal for someone to take that public space.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: So understand if you want to park in front of your house, you have to be the first one home.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for this episode.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, next episode I'll talk a little bit about Miranda and possibly something else.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: But anyways, take care.