Latest / OCCULTINARIUM / Occultinarium - EP 31 - 10 of Disks/Pentacles
Transcript
- Lynn: Hello and welcome to tonight's episode of the Occultinarium. We are the voices of the Occultinarium, and tonight's hosts are Luigi: Luigi Amelie: Amelie Lynn: And Lynn. We shall continue with our exploration of the tarot cards according to the Decans. Now we've had a little bit of a break in recording, so we are a tiny little bit behind on the decans as we're recording. It's the twenty-seventh of September twenty twenty six. And the next decan to explore is the third decan of Virgo, which is corresponding to the ten of disks. or Ten of Pentacles as you will. Let's get into that, shall we? yes. beautiful images. Shall I join? There we go. Do you have your your other two decks as well, Amelie? The hermetic and the yes. So we're just holding them up for the camera and the Amelie: Yeah, I've got the, I've got the Hermetic and the Golden Dawn. Lynn: golden dawn. So black. Luigi: Mmm. Lynn: Mmm. Amelie: very earthy. Lynn: Very earthy. Yeah. So we've come from the eighth through the ninth to the tenth of discs and the Luigi: journey. Lynn: the journey. And well the the tens they usually stand at the end of a season, right? And with the decans at the end of seasons they well, they mark an ending and often they mark a certain form of death as well. And with the very manifested earthly decans that we're having here, it's quite a materialistic bodily form of death or going back, joining the circle again from the beginning. the the decan rulers for this decan are Mercury in the descending order and it's Venus in the triplicity order. So we're gonna get back into that, but with like Mercury being the magician and (*Virgo) the hermit and it's gonna be a little bit juicy when we look at the Smith card. but let me just quickly get a little bit into the decanic images or the decanic energies that we're having because I mean for one it's like this end of a season. that I was just mentioning, right? we came from this eight of disks where we were, you know, just being in this process of creating and understanding the world, understanding how things function, and then the nine we we were kind of making things our own and we were in we enjoying our fruits and now the ten it's it's much more suddenly about this idea of like what is it we have and what is it we leave behind. Like it's this idea of a legacy. And the legacy both in physical terms, like if you were to actually, you know, die and leave, like what do you actually leave for the ones coming after you, like what kind of wealth or what have you what have you done? What kind of buildings have you erected you know, have you built an entire city or you know? but also the the say mental legacy, whatever people will remember of you or what will be left after you you leave the material realm. so yeah this this awareness of what it actually would be that you leave behind and also what consequences there are from your life, right? So both good and bad, like what have you done that has any form of power or influence on people around you and people that come after you. so yes, and that plus the idea of then, you know, if you take this a little bit further, not just like what you leave behind, but also this idea of what is actually valuable, right? what has value and what has not just a general value, but what has specifically human value, right? We're very with the the pentacles and discs are very much in the material life, in what is what is human, what is, you know, what makes a person a person, what makes us us. So all these questions or most of these questions will naturally resolve around, you know, what is tangible. Yeah. despite being in a position where we're kind of letting go of the tangible and entering the spirit world. so that this understanding. this understanding part of the decan with like what am I leaving behind on this reflection is very much this Mercury influence of the decan. While where the Venus comes in is more the the idea of well this letting go and the grief that comes with that. so what I can mention is that Venus in in this decan or is actually in her maximum amount or her maximum exaltation not exaltation but degree for the wow Mercury's not with me right now that's okay but if you're having exaltation and fall right then in this decan Venus has her maximum or minimum I suppose degree of fall so she's the most fallen the most debilitated in her fall in this decan yeah and Luigi: interesting. Lynn: yeah And i in a way, I mean we can think about I would like we can think and reflect about it, what it might mean. the way that I've come to understand it or I've come to learn it, is at least this idea of that, you know, Venus has this a thing of attachment, right? And and her and her attachment to the good things, attachment to What makes you happy, enjoyment, you know, it's very anti-Buddhist. It's like this, yes, I'm attached to it, I like it, I wanna keep it. And in this in the ten of disks, it's like, okay, but we are about to let go of that. it's about to end. So this understanding of okay, it is ending, and I have to let go. Venus is not happy with that, she wants to keep it, right? She wants to keep stuff. So yeah, so that sadness and grief about letting go and actually incorporating it and understanding it. And letting it do its thing, that's more like the Venus point of that. Luigi: It makes me think, because what you're saying, makes me think sometimes with deities and archetypes that they can be interchangeable when we look at them and interpret them via the lenses of the tarot. So this detachment or struggle to detach, it's very reminiscent of the descending of Persephone into the underworld and Demeter has to now let go of her daughter once again. Lynn: Mm, hmm. Luigi: You know, and in all the Persephone, the union of Demeter and Persephone is in a way the wealth of the ten of disks, or the ten of pentacles. And now the separation, which is part of the contract, six months and six months, now very much echoes the struggle to release that you were describing. Lynn: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, I I find it interesting. I mean when you look at the the thoth, card in it is aptly called wealth. And it's really nice to have wealth, but if you're just focusing on that, it's you know, there's also this idea of like letting go of it or not having it, right? So this is the very much the attachment, like keeping it or having it. And I mean, often, you know, the card comes up, it's like ooh, it's a good thing, you know, it's like an abundance Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: of material wealth. But the I feel like the Smith has a bit more of that idea of the legacy and this ending, more so than what you can see in the Thoth card. but we have all we do have a lot of the Mercurial symbolism here quite literally in the coins. And was it the Raphael we're having I think in the bottom wasn't it? Luigi: Raphael, think it's in the central circle or disc, Lynn: yeah, a lot of fine. Luigi: because he would be also the, I mean, I don't deal with angels a lot, but he would be the archangel Lynn: No we don't. Luigi: of Tiphareth Lynn: Yes, right. 'Cause I'm blind so I can't see, but that's right. Blind Luigi: I think the one at the end, which forms kind of a caduceus, but that's like the three mother letters in order, like you've Lynn: yes, of course. Luigi: got Shin and Aleph and Mem. Lynn: I'll Luigi: It's quite magical, Lynn: Do we? Luigi: very magical symbols in this card. It feels like it's a very ceremonial, magical... What's the word? Mercury is failing me too. But it's a very ceremonial, magic-centered card, feels like. Especially Lynn: Hmm, mm. Luigi: because of being at the end of the Journey of the Tarot, the very last card in the deck. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: So I guess it's almost like graduation, like now. Dear magician, dear enchantress, dear whatever the name you wanna, whether the title will be, let's see if you can manifest this into your life. But I do think when you focus on the union between and the importance, you the exaltation and the rulership between Virgo and Mercury or Hermit and the Magus, the magician, it almost feels to me or it speaks to me through the heart, like the real wealth is in the knowledge uncovered Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi: or earned. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: all of the power transmitted by the magician or the magus and embodied and protected and nurtured and developed by the hermit in whatever, again, title and form they may be, that knowledge being the wealth, you know, as Lynn: Mm. Luigi: an individual that has been initiated in tarot art, for example, and said that he was to go through the journey by following exactly the decans or maybe following the order of the kingdoms and then finding themselves at the very end with the Lady of Wealth. But that wealth being a representation of all that came before and all that's to follow. Which speaks of legacy again, isn't it? Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Mm. Yeah, that's. also not mentioned yet, but also the formation of the coins is a perfect formation of the tree of life, of course. And we're having that in we're having that in all the decks we're actually looking at, right? We're having it in a thoth deck, we're having it in the Smith deck where it's a little less common. The thoth deck has Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: it on a few occasions. here we're having in a Smith as well, these superimposed discs that don't really interact with the background but they're there, like not like within the eighth, right? Where like there's a direct interaction, like he's making Luigi: Mm. Lynn: the pentacles. and or in the ninth, where it also seems like these are the fruit of her labour. Yeah. And here Luigi: the fruit of the, yeah, whether in the tent or just part of the background. Lynn: they're just yeah, I mean foreground technically, but they're not nothing is interacting with them. It's kind of like it's just a layer. And also the ones that Amelie put up with the Golden Dawn. and the the hermetic they were also like in the formation of the tree of life. Amelie: Mmm, they actually aren't Luigi: I Amelie: really. No. Lynn: they're not? show them show them again. Luigi: Yeah, they're organized Lynn: Right. Luigi: a bit differently. Amelie: Hmm. Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: I find it interesting that, mean, Lynn: Hm. Amelie: I guess, semitic, like, symetrically then, yeah, Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: I guess. But I find it inter- Yeah, I find it interesting that this one Lynn: They're more in a symmetry of five and five, I guess. The way that they're doing it. Hm. Amelie: would not be at the top in a way. Lynn: Yeah. Yeah. Amelie: But I guess, I guess they kind of like reflect each other. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: as in... Luigi: above so below. Amelie: yeah. Lynn: Mm. Yes. As above, so below. Amelie: But yeah, not the tree of life. Lynn: I mean they're symmetrical in either way, like either axis. They would be symmetrical if you cut them in the middle, right? Or like this. Luigi: Yeah, there's a chance Amelie: Mm. Luigi: that the position in the Hermetic and the Golden Dawn deck, there's a chance that that particular graphic may be related to the I Ching, because I think Amelie: Yeah, they do as well. Luigi: does that in the top sometimes, like certain positions of their designs of Frida Harris, they reflect a particular I Ching symbolism. Lynn: We should have somebody here who knows about I Ching but it's the this one's connected with the I Ching fourteen, Dayu. I don't pronounce it correctly obviously. So Amelie: It's very, I Ching, is very, it's quite complicated. I think if anyone, Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: if anyone would be able to like know anything about it, has to be someone that study it for a while. Cause Luigi: Hmm. Amelie: what I've, what Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: I've heard is, is I guess you can make it, you can make Luigi: What it can be... Amelie: it straightforward, but it's actually quite complicated. Luigi: it can be a new challenge Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: for us to take in isn't it like let's go Amelie: dear lord. Challenge for sure. Luigi: But I have a bit of a theory possibly as to why, at least in the Smith deck, as to why Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi: we have the tree depicted within the card and not in any other. Because I guess for one is the number 10, so you can't depict the tree unless you have the number 10 stemming from it, if that makes sense. I mean, you can, because obviously, Crowley does and Frida do. They both do in their own deck. But I think because the tree is formed of the 10 Sephiroth, it makes sense to have it in a number 10 card, if that makes sense. And I guess having it in the 10 of Pentacles or the 10 of Disks, again, it's the order of the kingdom. before the number 10 and before any other elemental kingdom, it still will be etherial. And once we enter the realm of Earth, the final kingdom and the destination of the human life, then you have the Tree of Life. completed with its 10th Sephirah Malkuth. I mean, I'm saying that as a suggestion, I'm not saying, that's the reason. I'm just, when I sat and meditated with it, that's what came up. Lynn: I find that fascinating. Shall we just go into the Smith card because there's just so much in it? Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: Yeah? Okay. So if you were to describe without interpreting yet what we're seeing in the card, so we talked about the overlay of the discs, but the scene behind it, we're seeing an old man sitting on a big seat. slash throne with two white dogs in front of him a little child here that seems to be touching the dog or playing with it and then we see presumably a couple but it seems to be a female and a male person that are maybe in conversation or they're interacting in some way or other behind that again so we're having all generations present and it's set into in a city landscape. We would think it's looks like a big arch so maybe it's like a maybe on the outside, inside just inside the city walls, who knows, but it's a big arch with an what's it called? Like an emblem of the city I would say here and then in the background we can see a few buildings, a tower and yeah so it seems to be set in inside or at yeah in this inside of a a city. So that was without any interpretations, mostly. so yes, and then things go wild when you start interpreting things. Like who is the old man? Who are the dogs? Who is the child? Who are these people? And there are a lot of theories about that. Yeah. So d do you wanna just I I know you love this, you love this topic a lot, Luigi. Do you wanna do you wanna take it away? before I babble along. Luigi: I mean, can't. No, please. I think we should all bubble and blather together. Yeah, no, Lynn: Ha ha ha ha Luigi: you raise some very valid points. Also, some details that you know, like, for instance, I'm not been working with the Tarot for an extremely lengthy amount of time, but still it's been like over five years. And yet this is the first time that I noticed that the male again, let's play with gender. What's the word I'm looking for? Fluidly. for what we perceive as a male figure, know, that has their back towards us, if that makes sense. This is the first time that I noticed that they're holding a spear. Like, I never noticed a spear before. Lynn: Mm-hmm. yeah. Luigi: But I say that because, so you have the maiden or the mother figure, then you got the warrior next to her. That could be very much a Venusian and a martial archetype reflection. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Luigi: within them. But obviously you also had the stages of life, like starting from the child into adulthood into old hood, retirement hood, know, wisdom hood, that's much better, crone hood, crone hood. Lynn: Yes. Age. Yeah. Wisdom hood. Mm. Amelie: Wisdom-hood. Luigi: Then obviously you have the human kingdom united with the animal kingdom and then if you want to Lynn: Mm. Luigi: stretch your imagination because in the coat of many colors you have what looks like rich vegetation so in a way you have Lynn: Mm. Luigi: the mineral kingdom, the animal kingdom, the human kingdom, everything together again the richness of the kingdom of Malkuth which embodies everything. Lynn: And isn't here on the side, isn't that also the sea? Like the water, yeah, Luigi: Yeah? Yeah. Lynn: of Binah or like the sea here. So you're having a representation of a lot of the elements as well. Luigi: Yeah, and I also noticed that, I forgot how you call them, but you know the flags, they're not flags really, but they're like crests. Yeah, and the one underneath, Lynn: Yes. No, but you mean this one? Yeah, the crest yeah, crest. Luigi: and the one underneath as well, like behind the head of the Merlin or the Hermit. Yeah, there's a scale Lynn: Here? Hmm. Luigi: there, there's a scale. Lynn: hm. Luigi: I mean, at least that's what I'm seeing, I'm seeing a scale. Lynn: Yeah, I s I see what you see. That could well be. Hm. Luigi: Which I think it's very intriguing because we noticed how the scales and the seasonal Libra is approaching, it? Like after the 10 of Disks, we're going to enter the 2 of Swords, which we're going to discuss in the future. But almost like Lynn: Yes. Hmm. Luigi: indicating, say that we look at it from a journey from the 9 of Disks or Pentacles to the 10 of Disks or Pentacles to the 2 of Lynn: Mm. Luigi: Swords, gaining wealth. unlocking and or achieving peace. But again, we need to dissect what that wealth term refers to because it can refer to different things for different people. Lynn: Mm, of course, of course. Yeah, and No you go on. Luigi: I was just gonna say that I love that, because I'm very Venusian in my nature, but I love that the seventh pentacle, the one representing Netzach is literally in the womb of the maiden, of the mother, of the lady. Lynn: Mm, yeah. Luigi: I think, I mean, you can always argue, coincidence, but I'm also like, I'm not sure. Pixie, I'm not sure how much she was fond of coincidences. It feels very on the nose. Lynn: Very pr that's quite perfect, yeah. It's very on Luigi: you Lynn: the nose. No, I was just saying because you touched upon that, yeah, because you called him like Merlin, Merlinesque, right? Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: so this I mean, for one mean we can see it's an old person, old man, he seems to have a long beard, so he can represent the old age, in in the generational thing that we're seeing here, right? Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: but then also you bring up well, a like this Merlinesque so you're bringing in like a touch of magic and it's like, well, why do you why do you think that? Why do you think that he's magical? Luigi: I I suppose in a way, he almost blends in with whatever it's the throne or the robe of many colors. He blends in with that image, almost as if all you can see is the head, you know, and the hand. Again, very powerful symbols, isn't it? Like the hand, the yod, the letter corresponding to the hermit, and the head belonging to Kether, which is contained within Malkuth like this connection of the as above so below. And as well, I feel like, so from a body language perspective, the male figure that has their back towards us is not really, it's looking into the world that they've created, I suppose. It's looking into the earthly realm. It's not, we don't have a concept or an awareness of whether he knows or he, she, they, they know of all that surrounds them, including the ethereal matters. The maiden seems to be thoroughly devoted to the other figure, whether it's the protector or the child or the husband or the companion, whatever archetype of figure we want to assign to them. So there is a strong concentration of the archetype of love within the maiden. Then the child obviously has a need for the maiden because it looks like, please, mama, don't let go of my hand, but also Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi: a connection to the realm of nature and the realm of instincts. Lynn: Mm. Mm-hmm. Luigi: and the realm of things that are felt rather than calculated, whether Lynn: Hm. Luigi: like the Merlin or the Hermit or the Magus themselves or the Hermit themselves. Their position within the pentacle which corresponds to Sephirah on the tree, it's the Hod one where you see the splendor of everything, the splendor of life itself, but also the Sephirah of ceremonial magicians and scholars and individuals that focus a lot on studying the product of the understanding of Binah, if you will. And Lynn: Yeah. Yeah. Luigi: their faces, again, focus again on the animal kingdom, because of the, not optical illusion, but because of the artistry that Pixie has given us, it could look as if they are looking towards the dogs and that's it, but... He leaves an illusion, and maybe illusion is not the right word, but he leaves a feeling that he's actually looking at everything that surrounds him. Lynn: Hmm. And because you mentioned and we should probably look at that you mentioned the hermit. And I mean there's this big discussion or big discussion, but that yeah, Luigi: yeah, Amelie, she's holding the Hermit tap. Lynn: right. I'm trying to find the Thoth version as well. 'Cause I mean in the Smith version you can see that he looks quite exactly I mean it's an old man with a beard, right? And we don't have that many other cards where like old men with beards are represented. but they Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: are represented now in the in the 10 of the discs with this old man. So we have this visual connection, direct connection to the hermit. And the hermit of course also being connected to Virgo, which we're still like it's the sign of Virgo and the decans of Virgo still. so that is a yeah, there you have you're faster than me. and then the what I wanted to point out with the the Thoth version is the dog. Right? It's Cerberus. Ceberus. The three headed dog. We don't have a Cerberus, we have a bit more like domestic dogs, in i in our Smith version. But still it's a dogs and dogs are a known symbol of a psychopomp, like something that connects the the the physical world with the spiritual world or the underworld. And in the thoth version of the hermit, he is contrasting to the Smith version of the Hermit where he's like on top of a mountain and he's very like above everything. in a Thoth version he's much he's going down, he's going under the you know, underground. it's very earthy, very like mm and also with the symbol of the of the Cerberus right there. I have him here now as well. So there's already this connection with dogs. And then we're having it again here, again with the psychopomp dogs there who are completely focused on probably their master. we can guess that him that he's the master because they're on him. And there's also this notion of the child, like you said, you know, connecting to the animal world, but also if you're taking it further into more like a spiritual or a discussion into like spiritual or being in between and the dogs being like symbols of the underworld or being a symbols of, you know, death in a way. Luigi: Anubis. Lynn: Yeah. Anubis, very good point, yes. that the child being in touch with that, as we also have in maybe in the death card as well, where we're seeing like the children are closer to death in a way than adults are, as they've just come into life and they have maybe a more intuitive understanding of what comes before or after, without articulating it necessarily, right? And so this this child quite unafraid or just like touching the dog. I mean we could just say, you know, dogs or or children like dogs and they like to touch dogs, you know, fair point. But in like and they're Amelie: Hehehehe Lynn: like, it's a doggy. But in us knowing that there are not really many coincidences in the depictions of Pixie in in her cards and then there's meaning and there's a lot of symbolical meaning. we can probably infer that it's not just the child like, it's a cute doggy, I wanna touch it. but this connection with the animal kingdom and this connection to the underworld and to death, i in that sense. Yeah. Amelie: a wild card here and in a non particular, it just this is where my brain went with it right? Lynn: Mm. Amelie: So like the old man yeah I was I mean Hermit is like the the what we would think about but I'm also thinking about like the emperor right? So if the old Lynn: Mm. Amelie: man could be the Luigi: I Amelie: emperor because you've got all the all the grapes and The mantle that he's wearing, it's very rich. has like all the riches, all the fun, but he already had it because he's an old man. So he, he's like the legacy. He's the one that had everything. So he has to give it away to, you know, put, put it forward. And then, God, which order am I doing this? so the two dogs, let's do that. The two dogs. Maybe they are the two dogs from the moon cart. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: Because like you said, it's the Luigi: Very, very, very plausible. Amelie: underworld, there's the two dogs and the little kid might be the dressed kid that is the sun because he just got born like you said. there is a connection there. He came from the underworld so came from the moon to the sun could be and Lynn: Yeah, that's great. Luigi: And if you add the number 18 with the number 19, mean, ultimately they will reduce to 10 and 1. Amelie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And then the couple, I mean, this might be a bit wild, but this is where my brain went. I just went with whatever my brain went. The man sort of say that we can just see the back of even though he is not dressed the same way, but I think it's, it should be. like that. I'm thinking of the Fool because he's Luigi: Mmm. Amelie: got, it's not like the spear that he's holding. Well, it could be like the little, his little bundle that he's got here, because this is the beginning of his journey, but maybe because this is the 10 as well. This could be, you know, he has been through the journey and he has already changed. Like he ate his food and obviously he found a city, he found people that he knows. So this would kind of change him into someone knowledgeable, someone that maybe helped build this city. And also, also because I'm thinking of the 10, so When you have the 10, you're putting something forward. So it kind of becomes the Fool again. It's like a cycle. And the Lynn: Mm, yeah. Amelie: woman, Luigi: Awesome, Ted. Amelie: exactly, exactly. And the woman, why not one of the women from the three of cups? Because Lynn: Mm. Amelie: abundance and joy and all of that. So because she's wearing the red cape, I think this is where it came from. Luigi: Yeah, Amelie: And I was like, Lynn: Hm. Amelie: well. Luigi: and it's a Mercurial rule card as well. Amelie: Absolutely, it just felt like Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: it could be her. Lynn: Yeah, and then when you when you had up the moon card, you also have the two t towers on the background and Amelie: Mm-hmm. Lynn: and you also have a tower here. And then it could also be a connection to the actual tower card itself, right? the Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: imminent destruction of something, you know, like the letting go, the destruction, or that maybe a reminder that while there's creation and you've reached some sort of pinnacle of your life and that you know, there's there's also this reminder of well, it could get destroyed, you know, any moment. There's like mm this kind of idea I think in the background. Luigi: A beautiful image that arises from what you were sharing just now, Lynn, like on the... So I'm looking at the card. So on the left side, by looking at the card, you have the sea that you mentioned with what looks like the tower card to some extent in the horizon, maybe not the horizon so much, but in the distance. And that image is separated by the checkered... How would you call it? A wall maybe? A line? But yeah. So basically. Lynn: Yeah, this one, yeah, I'm not really sure. Because it seems like there's even a picture or something on it with the water and everything. So maybe it's like a a tapestry. It could be a tapestry or something on the wall. Luigi: It could be, definitely. I think what came to, what sprung to mind was because the checkered, so the black and white checkered, that's the one of the many symbols for Malkuth like one of the temple of, one of the colors of the temple of Malkuth. And having the water next to it, it really resonates with the yes-so, the transition into Malkuth and the tower being. the path that crosses it horizontally, like a rooftop. So to your point, the discernment and the melting down of the old, all that it took to break down previous beliefs, yeah, exactly like that. So the Lynn: tower. Luigi: cross of that path, which landed us into Malkuth well, no, into Yesod first and foremost, and then from Yesod into Malkuth. So there's an element of breaking down, there's an element of dissembling, dissembling Lynn: Hmm. Luigi: and an element of it's separate, but it's present, it's there, it's not to be Lynn: Mm, mm. Luigi: ignored, it's where you come from, it's where all of that was created came from. Lynn: Mm. I mean, yeah, like like Amelie pointed out, like if if the child, you know, is the sun, you know, the sun card and then the moon card and then whoop and then we we're down on Malkuth. So we also have like this path, some are represented in then the in the child and their dogs in a way. Amelie: Maybe that tapestry has something to do with the high priestess? Lynn: Yeah, especially for the waters. Luigi: Yeah, which will be lunar like yes, so Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: because she's, I guess she's the one that carries us from the crown down, because she's also in the middle pillar where Lynn: Yes. Amelie: the kid and the moon, well, the kid and the moon, where the sun and the moon. Lynn: Mm. Mm-hmm. Definitely. And I like I mean the the the way that you expressed with like the feminine being possibly Venusian and the masculine being Martian also with the spear is a very clear like we see it's a soldier having a spear. but I feel like I've also heard this discussion about the well, the spear is holding or the instrument possibly being a reminder of the instrument that the magician is holding in in his card, like the wand basically but then let's just say his instrument over here. I mean he also has a cape. It's it's you know it's red, not blue like in the other one, but you know, the magician. And then in maybe even more so fittingly in the world card. The very last Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: of the mages where the world or universe represented has her little staffs there. That she's supposed to be like spinning. so Luigi: covered in the blue satin. Lynn: covered in blue and I mean obviously this card as an ending as the ultimate ending in a way before it starts again. It would end being very earthy, right? Be a Yeah, they they they do go hand in hand in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, especially with the symbol of the arch as well, like the arch can be very Lynn: The arch, mm, yeah. Luigi: much an echo of the creation, know, the opening, if you will, which can Lynn: Hm. Luigi: be brought by the world or the universe as well as the empress. Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Amelie: Maybe the person with the back towards us is also the Nine of Wands, but he's actually well known. Luigi: Hahaha Lynn: He can be he's everybody, right? Yeah. Mercury, so Amelie: Hehehehehe Luigi: A chameleon, a chameleon. I like when you, when we. Lynn: basically Mercury, so he's the magician. Saying the Chameleon, Luigi: Yeah, yeah. Amelie: Yeah, exactly. Lynn: yes, yes. Luigi: camouflages depending Amelie: There's, Luigi: on what they need to do. Amelie: there is a, I think, I guess there's a reason as well because, because this person can be so many different people. So in a reading, this is, this is the whole point. Cause when you're doing a reading, you will feel whoever you're doing the reading for. So this person might, it might be the same person in different stages of, in their life, which is all natural to all of us. So it's not strange at all because we're thinking about all these different cards as completely different people, but you know, they might be the same person and, that's completely normal too. Cause I guess we're all a little bit bipolar or something. Luigi: Hehehe. Lynn: I liked what you've already mentioned with the the way that people are looking and all that and the fact that he the presumed male is the only one looking away and you think you said he's like looking at what was built and at the landscape or the cityscape and and what he has, but like his awareness is completely turned away from both old age and the animal, the underworld stuff, the subconscious. Conscious, the child is very aware of the subconscious and the feminine, is also much more in contact with the subconscious. So only they are kind of like in I'm gonna say subconscious a lot, but they're like always in that they're in the subconscious, while this male person is more like in the if maybe focused more on the now, on the here and now and then, and doesn't really know what's going on here so much and maybe doesn't care as much because he has a different focus point. Luigi: Yeah, I wonder like, again, this is all not speculation. This is all like reflection and experimentation. But because I wonder the sixth sephira, supposedly representing Tiphareth is Lynn: Mm. Luigi: centered around the house, isn't it? Lynn: Yes. Luigi: But obviously, because we don't know where exactly he, she, they are looking at, they could be looking at the house where that particular coin or pentacle stands on. Lynn: Hmm, mm-hmm. Luigi: We'll also be looking at the tower next to it, or maybe both. And what I'm getting at is the focus of the individual in that particular position of the card is aimed at what wealth feels like to the average individual. Like, look at the house, look at the tower, look at the building, look at the property. And I'm focusing on both because obviously the tower is automatically a reflection of the 16th major and understanding that it's within its what really glows of true light and the without has been built with dedication but ultimately mainly for the individual to become detrimental and not allowed for a progression on the journey. In the house, it can be also a focus on the superficial aspect of the divine feminine. like the Divine Feminine has something to aspire towards, maybe possess, but not of its deepest gifts, as well as the... I don't like the word vice, I really don't like it, but the vice of Tiphareth will be false pride. So again, this idea of look at the wealth from a physical material aspect, which can be the shadow of this card, whether everybody else in the card, maybe not so much the maiden, that's... we can discuss that, but the child, the dogs, Cernabog, and not Cernabog, that's another person, Cerebrus, and the Merlin aspect, the Hermit aspect, they are considering all the other fields, all of the other points of you. Lynn: Hm. Or value, like what is valuable. 'Cause the the Luigi: Mmm. Lynn: you know, we we talked about that that what is valuable to life and the the old man who maybe like Amelie said might have been the emperor earlier and now is, you know, old and he has to give his legacy over to the next generation and for him he's very quite sure that he's past this thing of like valuing the material as the most valuable thing for human life. Whereas young Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: people are more have like this thing, I need to own things and that makes me and I'm need to have a a name and that is what is valuable. Well he's already past that. He's like, no, you know, what's more valuable is all the things that I've learned and all the things that I can give on from my wisdom and my knowledge. yeah. Luigi: Yeah, that's very valid because what we could be experiencing with the ten of pentacles is that the old individual or the hermit individual or the Merlin individual, they are only touching and maybe even looking at the dogs because everything else that is in the card, besides maybe the child, is a memory, a memory of their past stages of life, the love that they felt, whatever they built and conquered with the spear. The child is present because from the wisdom archetype, you will go back into the birth, so into the youth, into the innocent archetype, so the child. And maybe that's why those two images are the only one able to connect to the dogs, to the natural world, to the world of the subconscious even. Because the male and female, if we want to call them that, the man and the woman, or whatever we want to address them as, they are memories of what... One has experience and what one has to not aim towards, but aspire towards, they are growing to. Lynn: Hm, yeah. Yeah, that's also very very interesting to think of it as just a memory. yeah, that's also pretty apt. Amelie: It's also a bit Luigi: I'm Amelie: sad because they're like passing each other by each other by some thinking, love is just a faint memory of us passing by. Lynn: Hmm. Luigi: sleepless in Seattle. Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: Because guess it makes me think of how, again, I'm getting very out of the box here, but it makes me think of how maybe Malkuth, not that we should always approach them as people, but say that Malkuth was a person and they may have been told or they may learn eventually that they came from Kether and from the descending order of Chokmah, Binah and Chesed and so forth, but what if for them is just a memory? You know, like, I always wondered, does each Sephirah remember the one previous? Because they receive from each other and they give to each other, but do they remember, do they remember that they came from or they were formed by? And that's very existential, who knows. But I think that could be incorporated in the Ten of Pentacles. Amelie: Absolutely. Lynn: Yeah, memory or I mean memory's also something you can be attached to, right? It's just a very metaphysical thing. Mm. And Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: once you let go of that, then I mean it's easier to slip into the next world. Luigi: Yeah, and the river of memory as well is in the underworld, in the Greek pantheon mythology, which Cerberus guards, isn't it? So maybe there's something there as well to explore. Lynn: Yeah, there's just so much to talk about in this card. It's really it's it's great. Shall we go a little shall we show the Golden Dawn? I mean we've just seen it and we can we can say okay, it's just two times (*five) pentacles. But Luigi: Hahaha Lynn: done with it but I mean we mentioned we mentioned the maybe the colours of the Golden Dawn. See we like to dissect it a little bit. We Luigi: Yeah, let's see. So because it's a Virgo one, we should have... Lynn: got the black, we got green, yellow Luigi: Yeah, black is consistent with Malkuth And so it's green, technically. The colors of Virgo, let me find them one second. So the colors of Virgo, they're like yellowish green, greenish Lynn: There it is very this very green colour is very Luigi: green, plum, indigo. And I guess we should also consider the mercurial color. So there should be some purple, some gray, some yellow. Amelie: That's the purple that you said, that's but like the ten of discs in the Thoth Deck there. Luigi: Mm-hmm. yeah, Lynn: Hmm, hm. Yes. Yeah. But here you can yeah. Luigi: well, mine is very oddly saturated. Yeah, the back. Lynn's one is much better. Lynn: Yeah, you see different shades of purple on this one. And the yellow and you Amelie: No. yeah. Lynn: see the green, yeah. Or greyish, yeah, of the coins. Luigi: Yeah, yeah, you will have the yellow, the purple, the gray. What's that? Indigo feckled with violet. That sounds beautiful. I mean, I can't Amelie: Mm. Lynn: Ha ha ha ha. Yeah. You get all that represented. Luigi: see it because of my blindness, color blindness. But when Lynn: Mm. Luigi: you read it, like indigo feckled with violet. Oof. Lynn: It's very purple. Mm-hmm. Luigi: Yeah, I think those are... Amelie: Yeah, so the black is the obvious, I think it's the blackest of the element of earth. And then, Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: Hmm, mm. Amelie: yeah, that's why the earthy colours are there. So the yellow. The yellow rays that are coming out from the pentacles Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: are the rays that represent the influx of the energy of aleph which we saw on we said about the thoth card, yeah. Lynn: Hmm. Well here. Yeah, in the middle. Yeah. Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: So it's aleph and air which Lynn: Hm. Amelie: connects to the fool. Luigi: which is very mercurial. Amelie: Yeah, that's kind of what it says. I guess... Luigi: think if I remember correctly, was it the green, because there's the green leaves obviously, and there's the green astrological correspondences, and I think that was about its connection to the opposite element of fire, isn't it? Because in all the ones we had green hands, if I remember correctly. Lynn: Right. Yeah. Amelie: just says it's a feminine hand this time so I guess white Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: is a feminine Lynn: Virgo, I guess The Virgo. Luigi: Well, I guess black and white would be on the opposite side of the spectrum. Amelie: Mm. Luigi: I think, I mean, I could be completely off the book here, but I think the green is the opposite dignity of Earth, which would be fire. all of the, like, again, I have to think back on it, but I remember that all of the hands or some of the symbols in the Wands card, they had the green being the opposite side of the color spectrum. Lynn: Mm. Yeah. Amelie: Yeah, you're right about that. Lynn: Yes. Yeah, it's opposing colours. Mm. Luigi: Yes, I think the green symbol for Virgo and for Mercury could be an echo of the opposing kingdom of fire from Earth. Or maybe we're just thinking too much about it. Amelie: No, I think you're absolutely right. Lynn: Yeah, maybe. Sometimes Amelie: I was just thinking about Luigi: Yeah, there. Amelie: the flowers as well, obviously the Lynn: Mm. Amelie: oil have bloomed and it's in both of the Lynn: Hmm. Amelie: cards. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: Yeah, in the Hermetic one, feels like, and it could be just my imagination, maybe because we were talking about Aleph and Air, it feels like they are flowing into the sky, into the aether, Lynn: Hmm. Luigi: maybe giving hints of autumn, which is coming after the ten of disks, at least in Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: our Northern Hermisphere calendar, I suppose. Lynn: Mm. Yeah, at the end Amelie: Yeah, you're very right. Lynn: of a season, yeah. So petals falling would be I mean, that can be also in spring, of course. But yeah, like the picture of an end of a season. And I like it, yeah, I like what you said. It should be like it's a bit airy, like it it looks quite airy. And floating, yeah. Mm. Luigi: Yeah, like, I don't know if you guys have watched Fantasia, but when they do the Nutcracker sequence, there's a sequence where flowers start floating from the air and then they land on a river. And this image in the Hermetic Deck that Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Luigi: Amélie is holding literally reminds me of that. Lynn: Mm. Yeah. Amelie: I'm trying to pronounce the angels that corresponds to Luigi: Good luck Amelie: that, but in my head I'm like, I can't do. Lynn: Ha ha ha ha. Amelie: Apparently it's the hi-ya, hi-ya-ya, Hihaayah Luigi: Ha Amelie: hi-ya-ya, and Laviah. It feels like Lynn: mm. Luigi: Mmm. Amelie: la-ve-tating, Laviah, la-ve-tate, which makes Luigi: Da Vin Da. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: I don't Lynn: Mm. Amelie: know, I'm really not versed with this angel thing. Luigi: Yeah, you'll have to speak to somebody who's not a pagan witch. Although there will be pagan witches Amelie: Okay. Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: that deal with angels, but just not myself. Amelie: Yeah, it's not our forte, but I thought I'd mention it just in case if anybody wanted to know the butchering of the names. Luigi: Hahaha Lynn: Yes. All right. Wow. Any any last comments? Luigi: think we made plenty of comments on this beautiful card. Lynn: Yeah, I think it was Amelie: There's so much to talk about in it. Lynn: so in depth. Yeah. Wow. Let us know what you think and have experienced about this decan and the ten of discs in the comments. like subscribe comment below Amelie: Please subscribe. Luigi: May Mercury bless you all. Lynn: Yes, May Mercury Amelie: Thank Lynn: and everybody else bless bless you all and let's let's Amelie: abundance and wealth. Lynn: see you all in the next wormhole. Thanks for joining and good night. Amelie: Bye. Luigi: Bye. Lynn: Bye.