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Sock Disciples And The Two Year Debt Diet · Pastor Plek's Podcast

0:05
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Pastor Plex Podcast.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Pastor Pluck, and joining me in studio is none other than David Hennick.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: David, welcome to the show.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: All right.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to have you.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: I I heard your story when we were at Red Horn Coffee, awesome place, by the way.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: And you were just sharing how you you came to the church and there was like elements to your story that I got really excited about.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: And um, but I want to start with like, well, how'd you find us?
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: So it was actually my wife that that found you guys.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, the new campus breakaway is about a mile from the house.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: And so we just kept passing this building and passing this building, and and interest grew.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: What's gonna be there?
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: And we looked it up, and breakaway church is gonna be there.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Boom, there it is.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Breakaway church.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so tell me about let's let's get into your spiritual journey.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, did you grow up in a Christian home or kind of like how did how did you come to know Jesus?
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, quick question.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: So I did not grow up in a spiritual home.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, my parents were very much, they did things that aligned with the Christian faith.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah in terms of doing well for others, being respectful, all of that, but we never had faith in our family.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: So I didn't know.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Like what you weren't like anti-Jesus, but maybe you weren't you're maybe culturally Christian, like hey, Easter, Christmas, those are like you celebrated Christmas with Christmas presents, I'm assuming.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Maybe did Easter with the Easter bunny.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but like beyond that, it it was probably just a lot of oh that those are the church people over there, we're not those people.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: So I didn't have a positive or negative view.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so how did you first then hear about Jesus?
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, through my wife.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, so but what when you hear that, like yeah, you've been married now how long?
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Twelve years.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Twelve years, but you're way older than like 35.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: So like uh uh way old, you're touch older, 35.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Way older than uh okay, so tell me about like let's go with through marriage number one.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Like what happened and like you didn't know Jesus.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: So um got together young, right?
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Got together, uh, got pregnant very young, had our first child when I was 21.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: So wrapping up my junior year in college, of course, you know.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Where were you at in college?
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh San Francisco State.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, San Francisco.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: So you're in California.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Not in California.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh Northern California.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: You're you're you're living the life.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Yep, you meet a girl, yeah, she's great.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: You guys are dating.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: You go have six on a kid.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's absolutely true.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: And and when when was it like one of those things, hey, we probably should get married?
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Um No, there was a poll to get married.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, yeah, because we had been dating long enough.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, had planned to get engaged, but ended up pregnant prior to that.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: Right.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: So um had our daughter and then got married shortly after that.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: And I think the challenge with being married young was I, I'll, I'll, I'll take the part of me, um, was not mature enough and just thought I could figure it all out on my own.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: What problems arose for you on your end as a young married man?
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think there was a pride problem, right?
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Like I can figure this out, I can do it.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think having a child young prior to really building uh a relationship with your spouse, yeah, and then wrapping everything up in your child and and the difficulty of trying to raise a child, go to school, uh, provide for your family, and all of that.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: All right.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: So did you finish school?
3:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so finished school.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: You finished school.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: What would you get your degree in?
3:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got my degree in exercise science.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, exercise science, and you're like, I am gonna be a physical trainer.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then how'd that work out?
3:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, didn't.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: I started to go to graduate school.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: I was like, maybe I'll be a professor.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, at the same time, I started to sell wine.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: So I got into sales at that same time.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: And oddly enough, went to my professor one night and just simply asked, like, what do you make per year?
3:57
SPEAKER_01: And he told me.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: And I realized that I was making more now selling wine than being a professor.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I think I'm gonna head towards a sales career.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: So after that semester, was done to graduate school and off went my sales career.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: So did you graduate with your no, you just said, and we're out.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: And we're out.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: And so you were like, I'm gonna be a wine guy.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gonna be a wine.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: So from exercise science to a wine salesman.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: So uh, so with selling, being a wine seller, do you travel a lot, don't you?
4:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we had pretty good sized territory.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so were you kind of all up on Napa Valley or like how did that work?
4:30
SPEAKER_01: So if you think of kind of geography of Northern California, I had Sacramento up through Lake Tahoe.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so it was great, great territory, really fun.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I was about 21 years old when I got into it.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: So 21 to about 24.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: But I had always wanted to get into the pharmaceutical side, but every pharmaceutical company told me I needed to have sales experience first before I could go there.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: So I asked what to do, and they said, go sell phones, cars, wine, something, and then come back to us in a few years.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I did.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: You sold wine.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: I sold wine, and then I went back to JJ, who I had talked to three years before.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: And then, like, come on, sell some.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: Sell some pharmaceuticals.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: Sell some pharmaceutical.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: So you just go meet with doctors and be like, Yeah, have you tried this new drug?
5:12
SPEAKER_00: Have you tried this?
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: And then like, let's give it a shot.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's let's talk about like how was the marriage during the time of like that sales experience?
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, it was probably okay.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think I did a great job of investing in the marriage.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think as a young salesperson, were you just like, I've got to make the money.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with a child.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: I think I was very before my relationship with God, I think I was pretty selfish.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, if if we're being honest.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about like, you know, when you have a your first kid, especially that young, isn't there a part of you that like and maybe this wasn't your case, but like I am a dad.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: God, what do I do?
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Did it not did it spark anything?
6:01
SPEAKER_00: No, nothing for you.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: No.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: And so for you, it was just like, I'm on my, I'm with my wife, I'm on my own, I'm gonna go figure it out.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Selling wine's my ticket, eventually I'll get pharmaceutical sales, and I know those guys make bank.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: All right.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: So you're you're selling, you're you've you moved from wine.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: You it it works.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: You spent three years selling wine.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: They're like, hey, you're in at Johnson, Johnson or whatever, and you went and boom.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Is that what happened?
6:24
SPEAKER_01: That what happened.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: And did you you're still in California?
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Still in California.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: So my um my ex-wife, uh, her family is from Central Texas.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: So we came down to visit.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: This was 21 years ago.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: And there was an opportunity for us to move down here within JJ.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: And so we wanted out of California and so put in for the transfer and actually made the move down here.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: That was at the time we were having our second daughter.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: So big transitions, right?
6:51
SPEAKER_01: Um and when you moved to Austin, where did you move to?
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Like what parts?
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, up in Round Rock.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: So you moved to Round Rock.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: And um you you kind of get all in involved there.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: You're still you still do you have a like a central Texas region of sales?
7:05
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, and so does being cl because usually um a lot of families will move to where the wife's parents are, so that helping with the kids, what a blessing that is.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, how did that experience go for you guys?
7:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there we didn't have the parents uh close to us.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: We had kind of aunts and uncles and things.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: It was just a nice area.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, especially if you think 21 years back before a lot of the growth in that area, you could navigate the city a lot easier than you can now.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: You're like, let's do Austin.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: You did Austin.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Pretty cool.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: All right.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: And then, all right, at what point does the marriage become unreconcilable?
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Where did where does that go?
7:46
SPEAKER_00: And how's that?
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh we had been here maybe a couple years.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: And the challenge, Chris, at that point was uh we were living well beyond our means.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean by that?
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Like how beyond your means?
8:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: So if we made 100,000, we were spending at a rate of 150,000 a year.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: So every year we got further behind financially.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: So Usually when your marriage is like a saver and a spender, when you guys just like double spend or yeah, yeah.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: It was like double spend, which was bad.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: It was fun, but the repercussions of it were Hey, live live for today, maybe let's go.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: So you're having so doing great vacations and that kind of thing.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think what it was was putting a band-aid over the actual issues.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: So it was like, hey, let's do a trip.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: And and what kind of trips would you guys do?
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like Disneyland or back out to California, just different trips, right?
8:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll never forget a year.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: The debate was whether we pay our taxes or whether we go on a trip.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: Which one did you choose?
8:57
SPEAKER_01: The trip.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Because that's fiscally responsible.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so good.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: So you were making a lot of decisions like that.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: So so tell me what happened after you get done with the trip.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: And the trip inevitably, I don't know and no matter what trip you take, whether even if you went, I don't know, to the a most you went to Disneyland.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, wow, I you went to the most magical place on earth.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: You get back and you're like, Yeah, was that worth like you kind of like you sit in the result of the financial struggle?
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Was that is that kind of what you did?
9:28
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Repercussions of your actions.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: And and then was there ever a point of like, did you blame her?
9:34
SPEAKER_01: Did you blame you?
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Or how did that work?
9:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we probably blamed each other.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, looking back on it now, call it what, 16 years ago, 17 years ago?
9:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: Um probably blamed each other.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: And instead of investing in the relationship, right, as being a uh a person that had no faith, um, I just relied on myself.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'll figure it out.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: I'll figure it out.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: From the outside.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Would people have thought anything was wrong?
10:04
SPEAKER_00: No.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: And so you're just, you know, you're the you live in in the suburbs, you live in net probably next door to somebody, and they're like, hey, you know, you kind of do the trash can wave.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then at what point were you like, this is not working?
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Did you guys go get counseling?
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Did you guys just how did you guys decide, like, yeah, what was what what was your strategy without God, yep, without any other maybe inner forms of intervention?
10:30
SPEAKER_00: What was your strategy there?
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think our challenge was one person would want to go to therapy in a season where the other did not.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: And then the other wanted to go to therapy in a season where the other did not.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: And so never did the two seasons align.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: And for us, we just kept trending down a road that you just couldn't come back from.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and we'll kind of get into this later.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: But the day of reckoning for me was, and you and I talked about it last week, was the day I got something in the mail that said I had a certified letter at the post office down the street.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: I drove down to get it, and this letter said you are basically two years behind in your property taxes, your house will be put up for sale in 30 days.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: So for me, that like the great house and the new car and all of that was about to come crashing down very quickly.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Do you think if there was, and this is like a hypothetical, so I don't you may not even know.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: But do you think if there was a Christian that was bold enough to say, like, hey, um, would you like to come to church?
11:45
SPEAKER_00: Hey, would you are you, you know, love to get to come over for dinner, love to have your would that have been acceptable to you?
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Or do you think at that point you were too stubborn to even hear from any of that?
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I was too stubborn.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I think it was my way and I was gonna figure it out.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: So uh, and how about your daughters?
12:02
SPEAKER_00: I how were they re I mean, I'm I'm sure they could sense tension.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh they really appreciated Disneyland.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh and they know they came back, they're princesses for however long you were there, and they come back and they feel the weight of the home.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: What was that like?
12:17
SPEAKER_01: You know what's interesting about that is they actually didn't.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and here's another fault of the of the relationship.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh, when we shared that with them that we were going to be separated, they said to us, I don't understand, you never argue.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'll never forget about that.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: But I did such a poor job of communicating that we didn't argue.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: They were right.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Because as a man, I would just take those emotions, those feelings, stuff like that, and just stuff it down.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: So, like your wife would say, like, blah, blah, blah, here's the problem.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: And you'd be like, And just not battle it, walk away.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: And and then you'd just be like, okay.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: And the maybe bitterness would build up.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: That that's fascinating.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh that and I think that's helpful.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: I think because a lot of times I and a lot like we don't or we don't ever argue in front of the children, and that like that's a point, a badge of honor.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: As opposed to we deal with stuff.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, has that changed for you?
13:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Now it's like our children get to see us go through it, right?
13:19
SPEAKER_01: They get to see resolution.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, they get to see, like, hey, on this, we actually didn't agree, but we came to a mutual point.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Way to go.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: Or we did agree and and we're moving.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: It took it took us a while to get there.
13:32
unknown: Yeah.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: All right.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: So your kids don't ever see you argue.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: You'd let them know how'd they react to that?
13:38
SPEAKER_01: Do they Yeah, they were pretty devastated just because they didn't see the cracks, you know, that were there.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: We kind of how old were they?
13:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: Our let's see, my younger daughter was in kinder.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: So she was five.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: So my older daughter would have been 11.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: So middle school and then like kind of um and it was rough, but that was only like the tip of the iceberg, right?
14:05
SPEAKER_01: All the all the financial unrest was just starting to come to the surface.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: So, how how long did the divorce take from that that point?
14:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was actually pretty quick.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: So we had uh uncontested.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: We came together, we split everything.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that part was nice.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: So did you split the debt?
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, some of it.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Some of it.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: I probably took on the majority of it.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, which was okay.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: I just needed to move forward.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: And the best way to move forward was to to to shoulder some of that and say again that I'll just figure it out.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: So that'll kind of be the theme of this podcast.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Like I'll figure it out.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Until I come to the end of my rope and I can't figure it out anymore.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: And so you go through this divorce, no Jesus, no relationship with God, just you're just, I just, I'm doing the next thing.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: And uh your ex-wife was she's just like, I guess this is what we're doing now.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: And how far away did you guys live?
15:00
SPEAKER_00: How was how was co-parenting?
15:01
SPEAKER_01: Yep, yeah.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: So we did a week on, week off.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: So we did uh Sunday to Sunday.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, and literally we did that until the kids were out of high school.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: And she wasn't more than she's still like 15 minutes away.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: So that part was great.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: Um there was no tension.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: There was the ability to drop off and pick up and kind of do life um was was there.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: And was it cordial?
15:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: So I guess the ability not to communicate blessed you there because you just didn't say anything mean.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: All right.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: All right.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: So so how does Jesus play into this?
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, when does Jesus show up?
15:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: So um, as I'm single and navigating life as a single father in an apartment.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: Um still in Round Rock.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Still in Round Rock, yep.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, my parents moved down.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, they're retired out of California, so they moved down and they're like, hey, we'd love to help you like raise your children and all of that.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, that'd be that'd be fantastic.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: So they were living down the way.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, I meet Danielle, uh, my wife, and we start dating.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, but what Danielle doesn't know is my terrible financial secret.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: So how do you keep that a secret?
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a great question.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: It's like anything in life, if you get far enough gone, it you almost become numb to the feeling, right?
16:28
SPEAKER_01: When I was$10,000 in debt, I was like, oh, that's a lot.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: When I was$20,000 in debt, I was like, oh, that was a lot.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: When I was$50,000 in debt, I was like, that's a lot.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Got up to mid-70s and you just kind of go, I'll pay it off one day.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: But you really become it just becomes part of your life.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: Do you go?
16:48
SPEAKER_00: It's not a hundred thousand.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: You do.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: You really do.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: It just becomes part of your existence.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: And it the shock value is gone anymore.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: It could have been a hundred, and you'd be like, all right, well, at some point I'll pay it off.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: And what kind of debt are we talking here?
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, I owed the government, I owed my parents, I owed my sister, I owed a buddy of mine.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: But anybody you could think of, I probably owed them money.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: So you've got all these people you owe money to.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, you're not doing payday loans, though.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: No.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Way to go.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Stay clear of that.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Just uh just a helpful hint to all those who might go for some payday loans.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Don't do that.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so yeah.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you at least were smart enough not to do that.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: So, all right, were your parents charging you interest or like, hey, we got you?
17:36
SPEAKER_01: No, they weren't.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: They were overly kind, right, about it to where you were like, I'll I'll pay you back when I get some time.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: But it got so bad that um I got another letter in the mail from the government saying you owe more than$25,000 in federal tax.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: So now we're sending a letter to your work and gonna garnish wages.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: We are gonna garnish wages.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: So were you still doing pharmaceutical sales?
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: So there was this mindset of like, I make good money, I'll get out of this someday.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Not a big deal.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, so Danielle and When we're talking about good money, like what are we talking here?
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, it it wasn't good enough to pay.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, because to me, when I'm hearing that, I'm like, well, why don't you just pay it off?
18:22
SPEAKER_00: You're like, you had enough bills coming in, but you still had$70 plus thousand dollars that you're like, I can't get to that.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: And when it's in an apartment, you just kind of go.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: But but you were living in an apartment.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Did you eat out every meal?
18:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm like, I'm trying to figure that out.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Did you like drive a Rolls-Royce or like Whoa?
18:44
SPEAKER_01: I was just more mismanagement.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: And when you start to owe a lot of different things, the interest rates are so high.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, got it.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so wow.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: All right.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so you you how'd you meet Danielle?
18:57
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, yeah.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: We get to this.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Both of our daughters attended the same preschool where uh a good buddy of mine and his wife owned the preschool.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, fun.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: So meet there and begin to date.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, oh man, this is fantastic, right?
19:12
SPEAKER_01: So what was Danielle's background?
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Did she have was she married before or yep, so married before she has two children?
19:19
SPEAKER_01: So our combined is kind of like that Brady Bunch theme.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: We have four total, um, and three girls, one boy.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's it's really cool.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: But we meet, and of course, she's like, Oh, this guy has a good job.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: He's in pharmaceuticals, right?
19:35
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, little did she know till our first trip out to see my sister of what a financial disaster my life actually was.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, all right, all right.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: So you you meet her at the preschool.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: You're not following Jesus.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: No.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Was she at in your church?
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh no, she had attended Gateway when she was uh younger.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, but has was not currently had fallen off and was just like doing her thing.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Doing her.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: All right, she went through a divorce.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: She did.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: She went through a divorce.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: You guys are in the same sort of spot.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: She's like, hey, here's a guy.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh, here's a functional human.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh we you start dating.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: You go, she goes alone to visit your sister?
20:13
SPEAKER_01: No, she goes, she and I go out to visit my sister, uh, call it five, six months later.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: You go out to my best friend's wedding in California.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, fun.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: And so you're going out to California for a wedding and good time.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: After the wedding, you go see the sister.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: You have to hanging out, drinking a glass of wine.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: And my sister makes a comment about the money I owe her.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: And I play it off.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Danielle doesn't say anything.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, was it like 50 bucks or like two or three thousand?
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Enough.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Enough to be like that that bothers me.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh yeah, I'll get it to you next week or whatever else.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: Just an easy, uh, like nonchalant.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: And so Danielle is bright enough, right?
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Single mom.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: So she like registers that two children, registers it somewhere, circles back with my sister later when I'm not there, and is like, hey, hey, how much does your brother owe you?
21:11
SPEAKER_01: B does your brother also owe other people money?
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Which she says, yeah, my parents, the government, anybody else you could think of.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Awkward for everyone about it.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: Everyone.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: So uh she doesn't share that with me, but about two weeks later, she says, Hey, let's go to dinner.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Great, let's go to dinner.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: We show up to dinner and my parents are there.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, huh.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: It's weird.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: I didn't say my parents were gonna be here.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: And then we sit down.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: She hasn't said anything about this up.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: So she has a conversation with your sister.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: Does that say a thing to you?
21:50
SPEAKER_00: No.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, and then all of a sudden there's an intervention.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: There's well, I don't know that yet.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh yes, yes.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: There's about to be.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: So where'd you guys what restaurant?
22:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't even remember.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: But I don't remember.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: I just remember showing up, and as a man and as a prideful man, as these three people that loved me and still love me, right?
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Say to me, this is an intervention.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: And I say, absolutely not.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know what I'm doing.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: I'll figure it out.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: I will get this paid off.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: I'll figure it out.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: I'll figure it out.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: And my mother says, You're gonna lose the best thing that happened to you if you don't sit at this table.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, I guess I'm sitting down.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: So we sat down and they had me write out all of my debts to every person, entity, whatever that I owed money to.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: And were you able to remember it all, or did you have to look some stuff up?
22:55
SPEAKER_01: No, it was all pretty fresh.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Because they would come in every month, right?
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I get you.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Hey, you owe me.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: You owe me.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: And you're getting that, and you're like, ah, I got it.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: I got it.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: I got it.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: How did you deal with that?
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, how did that not affect you emotionally?
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, it probably did.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: But you you've done a good job at stuffing your whole life.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: As a as a man or men in general, I would say do a nice job of like compartmentalizing stuff.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is the finance.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is finance.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: That's in the finance bucket.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: If it wasn't talking about finance, I don't have to worry about finance.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Good.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Um and and not having faith yet, there wasn't that conversation like coming into my heart.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what are we really doing here?
23:35
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so we spent that evening writing it all out.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: And my mom and Danielle were basically like, so we're not moving forward on any sort of relationship thing, i.e., engagement, marriage, any of that, until every single cent is paid off.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, well, I have an apartment right now, I have all this.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: And they said, yeah, so um, you can come live with us for free.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: You and the girls can live upstairs.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: And every extra penny you have, bonus, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, is gonna go towards that.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: And every quarter, we're gonna have a financial meeting to figure out how far along you are in paying this off.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: How long did it take from that moment to pay off 70, whatever thousands?
24:19
SPEAKER_00: 24 months.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: So two years.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: Two years.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, what's the math on that?
24:23
SPEAKER_00: How much a month is that?
24:24
SPEAKER_01: Like yeah, uh, well, I mean, what's that?
24:27
SPEAKER_01: 30 a year.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Almost 3,000 a month?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, three grand a month.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh huh.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: So you you take 24 months.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: When do you ask Danielle to marry you?
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh after that.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: So after the full 24 months.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Because she's like, don't even ask.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Because we couldn't get the ring.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: Because if the ring wasn't paid for in cash, like all the time.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: She was not interested.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Two years.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Two years.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: Living at your parents' house.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Living at my parents' house.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: How did that feel?
25:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Um.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: What'd your kids think about that?
25:05
SPEAKER_01: We're living at grandma's.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: I know.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: So my younger daughter, bless her soul.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: She's so sweet.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, she's got just this very tender heart.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: She's very emotional, like I am, and all of that.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: She one night says to me, Oh, dad, you're a kid just like me.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: You live with your parents.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: And as a man at what we call it mid-30s, to have your child.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: Say that to you is humbling.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: Very humbling.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: To say the least.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: So that's when you're really kind of broken down to your core.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: A very, very low point, for sure.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so at what point are you like, Yeah.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Jesus, I'm I I'll at least give it a shot.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: I know.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Who and who invites you and how does that all happen?
26:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: So uh Danielle, as we're dating, comes to me and she goes, Both of our previous relationships, for one reason or another, didn't work out.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Neither of us had God at the center of it.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: I really would like God to be at the center of this relationship.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: That's simple.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: You're like, okay, why not?
26:30
SPEAKER_01: I'll give it a shot.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm not anti-God.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: What I'm, yeah, what I'm doing so far isn't working.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, why not?
26:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: I didn't grow up.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: You had no baggage.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: I had no baggage around it, right?
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, there was no church or anything else.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: And so for me, she was just like, I want things to be different.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: I want things to be different in this relationship and then potentially this marriage.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: I want it to not be like it was the first time.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: I was like, great.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: So we uh it was almost like the through the uh three bears, where we would go to different churches and be like, too hot, too cold, right?
27:01
SPEAKER_01: As they're going to this, do that.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, uh.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: And she said to me one day, she said, Hey, um, I used to attend Gateway when it was down at the synagogue downtown.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, let's try it.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Wait, it was the synagogue?
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, originally 45th in Bull Creek.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's wild.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: That's fun.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Forever ago they ran in space.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: And so we went and guess they have they have space on Sundays.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's good.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: So we show up to Gateway, and I'm walking in, I'm like, oh man, oh man, this is really scary.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: And we sit down, and Pastor Burke begins to talk.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: And it was that feeling, there was probably 800 people in there.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: But that feeling that uh John's message was to me.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: And not to the 800.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, oof.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: And it it hit.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: We laughed and she's like, what'd you think?
27:59
SPEAKER_01: I was like, whoa.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: It was almost like an out-of-body experience for me.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, but at the same time, it was scary because I was like, oh, like turning your life over, like, ugh, I don't know about all that, right?
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, I can, I'm still figuring this out, right?
28:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm figuring it out on my own.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm at a better spot.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: I'll get there.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: And we started to attend on a regular basis.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: And my faith journey wasn't this overnight piece where I was sitting in my room and all of a sudden God was present, and the next day, wham.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: It was this very slow burn where I found myself starting to make better decisions and different decisions as my heart changed.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so Danielle and I get connected.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: We actually get baptized together, which was incredible.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, have the picture and everything else.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: But it was that piece of kind of this old you being gone and in the water and this new you coming up.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean you're perfect, but you're you're making progress towards God.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: So was that before you were married?
29:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: So you so you you you like at that point that you've had that, you're you know, that in the midst of that 24 months or whatever of of I guess pre-engagement or engagement?
29:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: Um maybe after you got pre-engagement.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: So actually, if I think about it, it was probably right after we got married, then the baptism.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so you you got saved, you get baptized, yeah.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: You're you're brand new to Christianity.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: Did you like have to go buy a Bible?
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I did not have one.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: My mother-in-law got me one a study Bible.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you so you get a Bible and and tell me about like what the journey was for like for you.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: So I just started to dive into it.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know anything, right?
29:55
SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I didn't have any good or bad habits.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: It was just this incredible book that came to life.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, and for me, this faith journey started to go.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: I remember I was working at Allergan Pharmaceuticals, and I got a call one day, and they were like, hey, everybody stay home.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh no, we're all getting laid off today.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: So um I get the call from HR and they're like, yeah, you're being let go of your position.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh no.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: We have a house at this point, we're married at this point.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: You have a mortgage?
30:28
SPEAKER_01: We have a mortgage, we have all these things.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: We're trying to do all the right stuff.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, oh no.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: What year was this?
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: It's probably 10 years ago.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: It's like fifty six, 15, 16 years.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: We're probably two years into the house at that point.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: And I've never not had a job.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: And I'm in tears.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Danielle had gone on a walk.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: She comes back, she's like, What's wrong?
30:54
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I lost my job today.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Oh my gosh, that's so weird.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: I was on my morning walk having my conversation with God, and he told me that like big things were gonna change this year.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize it was today.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, that'd have been helpful if you would have shared that.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, It's gonna be fine.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, How do you know?
31:14
SPEAKER_01: She's like, Because of my faith.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, but how do you know?
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she was like, Because of our faith.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: And I still being uh being a young Christian, I didn't understand what that meant.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I go to church and I do my best and read the Bible when I can, but I didn't understand what she meant by that.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: And um what was interesting was what transpired was I said, well, they said a bunch of things to me, but I was crying, so I didn't understand what they said about this severance package.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, she's like, okay, well, call back.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: So I called back and I was like, so what do I what do I get?
32:06
SPEAKER_01: What happens?
32:07
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, oh, it's great.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get like eight months of severance, you're gonna get healthy, all these things, you're gonna be just fine.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm gonna be just fine.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Offset this kind of odyssey of me beginning to read the Bible.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: And I read it cover to cover.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: I read the goal was to read every single word of the Bible.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: And I would find myself, I'd go to Brussels Creek Park and I had no job.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: And so I'd begin to read.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: And at times I'd be like, Okay, God, it's time for me to go back to work.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: And he would go, No, it's not time yet.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Just keep reading.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: I'll let you know when it's time.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: And almost six months later, as I was probably three quarters away through the Bible, he's like, Now it's now it's time.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna re-enter the uh the job market.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Okay.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: And so I continued on that and ended up reading the rest of the Bible through that process.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what about your children at this point?
33:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, are they seeing like you're a crazy person now cries all the time?
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Or what?
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, what's always cry.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: They've always been like, yeah, most of my children uh don't cry very often.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: I have one who's very much like that'll just like see a commercial and start crying.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: But the rest of them uh just don't.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: I always joke that like they have surgically had their tear ducts removed and stuff like how do you not cry at this?
33:34
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, dude, what's the problem?
33:36
SPEAKER_00: No, I love that.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: All right, so but what about their relationship with God?
33:38
SPEAKER_00: How did you like, how is like a parent with I think at this time, how old was your oldest?
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, when we started at uh middle school, so then we get to that high school because she's like 27 now.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: So she was like, whoa.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we doing here?
33:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't do church.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Was there any part of that?
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Or is she like, okay, I'm ready to go investigate this with you?
34:00
SPEAKER_01: I think she was good with it because I never tried to like push it on my children.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, you have to go, you're gonna love the Lord, like that sort of thing.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Um it's kind of like you and I were talking last week, right?
34:13
SPEAKER_01: With with my company and and our culture at our company, I tell every one of our employees that I want people to see and to feel what our culture is, not to be told what it is.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: And so the faith component was that too.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: I didn't want my children to say, like, I'm a Christian.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm a Christian now.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, what?
34:32
SPEAKER_01: But you still do all the same, that sort of thing.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: My heart and my priorities had changed.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Had changed.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: What was there any parenting difference between pre-Christian David and post-Christian David?
34:49
SPEAKER_00: And if if so, what what was it?
34:51
SPEAKER_00: And was it a hard implementation?
34:54
SPEAKER_01: I that's a really good question.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: I guess for me, it was trying to be more present with my children in terms of for whatever it was that they were doing, not just being there to be there, but being there to be present to to help, to serve, to do whatever that was.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: But when did so so in your first marriage, at least what I heard was you stuffed all feelings.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: So later on, did Danielle bring out emotions?
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Like how like was there a shift, or was that kind of like you were emotive, but very controlled emotive?
35:35
SPEAKER_01: I like how do you Yeah, that's a good question.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: So the joke around our house is uh Danielle is very much um like queen of confrontation.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh really, she will not let it like if she has something wrong or there's an issue, she will not let it lie.
35:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: Just in the moment, done.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: We're sitting down, we're talking about it, where everybody else just scatters.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: And so her piece to like bringing that alive forced me to actually confront and have hard conversations.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: But I was very much never that way.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: So before Danielle, yeah, you I don't want to say stoic is the right word, but you stuffed emotions, not deal with them.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: You get frustrated or angry and then sort of build resentment, bitterness until eventually you're like, no feelings.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh whereas with Danielle, she's like, hey, there's an issue, we're talking about it.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, talk about what?
36:30
SPEAKER_00: No, there's nothing.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: She's like, nope, there's something.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, fine.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: And then you talk about it and all of a sudden you find yourself crying?
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: What was that like for you as a man?
36:41
SPEAKER_00: Was it like unbelievably healing to kind of finally somebody that knew you well enough that they could pull that out of you?
36:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: It it was good to, I think it was really good for our children to see it.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Right?
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Because now they're like, oh man.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: But Danielle did a lot of the work there, it sounds like.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: So she kind of is like, you know, you're an enigma puzzle of a person.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: You're you're kind of quiet right now.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm not letting this go.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: At all.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: All right.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: So so that I'm assuming that happened while you're dating.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: And then that happens, you become a Christian, and then she's like pulling more stuff out.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: And now you become more emotive over time.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: So then you become a Christian.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: You you start to live for Jesus.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: You're now like plugged in.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: You probably do cry at church.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: And then do you um and and your kids see this, especially your oldest.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: She's looking at you going, What did how did she respond to that?
37:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: I think good, right?
37:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, when I see so your vulnerability brought, did it bring anything out in her?
37:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, she's she doesn't cry very often.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: She's got ice in her veins.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, she does.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Um she'll laugh at this part.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's that's just kind of who she is.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm much more the emotional side.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Did she marry someone that's emotional?
38:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh, probably more emotional than her.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: And very easygoing.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: She's very much my oldest, so she's very type A.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: It's here's the way, here's, and my son-in-law is like, all right, cool.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: Let's do it with whatever.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think for her, she saw uh what I'm hoping that she saw was like a softer side, right?
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, a side that as I turned my heart over to God, um, that it opened things up.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: And I I guess a specific example, thank you for pulling this from me.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, I always tell my children, um, if you see somebody or something that needs help, just do it and then let me know.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: So if you see somebody that needs help, help them, whatever that is, if it's a tire, if it's groceries or whatever it is, if if God puts something on your heart, do it.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: And I'll I'll I'll make it right with you, I'll chew it up with you.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: Right.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: So she's at Texas State and she calls me, she's like, oh my gosh, she's crying, which unusual.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's a family in Target, and I just I feel like I need to help.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: So to me, that was one of those moments where I was like, oh.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: She does get it.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: God's off in my heart, God's working on her.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, do what you need to do and just let me know what what that is, right?
39:23
SPEAKER_01: She's able to get them groceries, help, and all of that, send them on their way.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Call me, transfer money into her account and be good.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: But I I try to keep my children very attentive to others, right?
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Danielle and I are wired to to give and to do.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: Those are kind of our gift things, is what we would call.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: And so I try to keep them in tune to the the giving and the doing.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: God put something on your heart, just do it.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll figure it out later.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: So I like that.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: But first, it's all figured out.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll figure it out later.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: That there's a theme.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: All right.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: So uh, did she become a believer?
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: And so what would what did that look like?
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she went away to college.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, so because of the split uh family back and forth and sports and all of that, she didn't really attend uh Gateway with us when we were there, or church with us in general, but had gotten a Bible in college and started to get connected and do that.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: Did you pray for that?
40:25
SPEAKER_00: I did.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Like talk to me about that.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: What that look I mean, you know, this is every parent.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm sending my kid to college, you know, into the crazy world of not Christian ideas.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and all of a sudden she comes back with a Bible.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, talk to me about what was your prayer like?
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Did you sit down with Danielle?
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, we need to what was how did you I mean, we love our kids, we all, but like give me some of that sp specificity on on like the prayer life in that direction.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think being honest, I think Danielle carried more of that church than I did.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I struggled with um how to pray.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: It was an interesting thing to do.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Because you were a Christian like one or two years when before then she goes to college.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, oof.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: And I struggled with that, right?
41:14
SPEAKER_01: I would want to take like these beautiful prayers to God.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, you gotta be perfect and eloquent and all of that.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, what I've learned a decade later is it's like, God wants your heart.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: So pray what's on your heart.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: So my prayers now are are very different than what it was before.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: It'd be like, well, I'm just not gonna pray because I don't know what to say to God.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, why don't you just have a conversation?
41:39
SPEAKER_01: So for me, Danielle probably carried a lot more of that in terms of praying daily for our children as they went away to college.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so then your next daughter.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what about her?
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: So both the middle daughters, um uh Kim Marie, who we have full custody, right?
41:56
SPEAKER_01: So Danielle's uh oldest.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, she was with us full time.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: So they were at church every Sunday.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: So it becomes very different in a blended family uh with sharing of um children.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Tell me, because uh we have a lot of people in our church that have blended families and some that are just becoming blended families.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh and it this isn't a parenting advice section, but what advice?
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what would you give?
42:22
SPEAKER_01: We struggled with that.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: We read a book, uh Chris, that actually talked about it's gonna take a decade, right?
42:28
SPEAKER_01: These these parenting exercises.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: Was it Smart Stepfamily?
42:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh maybe so yeah, Ron Smart.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: Great book.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, it's gonna take a decade to blend this family.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: And we all laughed.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: It was like, uh, we're 12 years into it now of like marriage, and we're still navigating that, right?
42:43
SPEAKER_01: It's challenging.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Um what's the hardest part of it?
42:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh I think the hardest part is when a child isn't in your home or in a home full time.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: Because there's different rules at different schools in a sense.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: Different rules.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: Then a child uh has the ability to start driving.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: So then they're making their own decisions, they're driving.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: They're maybe not at your house on a Sunday morning.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: So I did not do a good job.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: Did your ex-wife go to church at all?
43:10
SPEAKER_00: No.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: Um and I I think with my younger one, I probably wasn't confident enough in my faith to talk to her about why she should go.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: Our other two children were with us full time, right?
43:32
SPEAKER_01: And they just went.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Because again, Mama Bear says you're going and you're just going.
43:38
SPEAKER_00: There's no what was the relationship like with Danielle and your the daughter that lived with you the longest?
43:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: Because usually that's the contention, right?
43:49
SPEAKER_00: Like uh, usually the the husband has it with the the non biological parent.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: There's always that like you're spending time with the daughter when you Could be spending time with me, and there's daughters like who knows how to get into your heart and and just like manipulate the situation.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: How did you deal with that?
44:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was really hard, especially because my younger one is very emotionally driven.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: Um it I definitely didn't do it perfectly.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, not even close.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: Um it was hard, right?
44:23
SPEAKER_01: Because what was the tension?
44:24
SPEAKER_01: What was the private tension?
44:26
SPEAKER_01: I think the tension in a blended family is the the stepmom doesn't want to step on the toes of the biological mom.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: Right.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: So in our house, uh Danielle just opted out and was like, hey, you're you're you're parenting on this one.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: Because you're here and then she's at mom's the other half.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: And they're gonna parent there.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: But it was challenging.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: What was the friction point with when Danielle would come to you and she would say, Talk to your I don't know.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I don't know.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: How do that would go?
45:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the friction points were rules were different at different houses.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, even when they were little.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: Did Danielle feel disrespected or like was there ever a point of that?
45:10
SPEAKER_01: Or not disrespected, probably just frustrated.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Because she was never uh disrespectful.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: But you could do it all over again.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: Like in so I I've got a couple just about to get married.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: A bunch of kids here, a bunch of kids in a bunch of situation.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: Give me like the one thing they need to take away.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: You gotta get on the same page quickly.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: With the other, with the no between the two of you.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: With you, you and your wife.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: I did not do a good job of being on the same page as Danielle early in our relationship.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Was it because she's just super in tune and she she could sense things?
45:45
SPEAKER_00: And you know, as men, we're not it's not that we're not in tune, but we're just not aware emotionally, probably all the stuff that she's aware of.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: That and I think the other piece was I was trying to appease my younger daughter, right?
45:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh divorce, sadness.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: Appease as opposed to parent.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: That I think, man, that, yeah, that's worth the price of admission right there.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: All that to say you were 70 something crazy,$1,000 in debt.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: You start, you, you live with mom and dad, you get it paid off, you get married, yeah, you get you get saved.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: Jesus is working, you get laid off, you get another job.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: When do things start going to a place where you're like, I don't know, I don't know if we made it is the right word, but like, hey, we're at the place I always sort of dreamed of when I was 21.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: So it's it was an interesting moment.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh we started to attend very regularly.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, we got baptized, we both started small groups and we became very involved.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: We started to give, yeah, not tithe, different as I've learned.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: Yep, very different.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: We we started to give and we started to give more and and get more involved.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: And it was incredible.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: And I got a call one day from my boss, and he said, Hey, you got a minute.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh man, if I'm being laid off again, this is gonna be terrible.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, No, actually, with the merger of our company um into this new company, they're redoing the salary bans, and your salary ban was lower than the the company we're going to.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
47:15
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, You're getting a raise.
47:17
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is amazing.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: So he tells me the raise amount, I do the math, and if we give the whole raise plus fifty dollars, we would be tithing.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: We would move from giving to tithing.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: And so I called Danielle, I was like, hey, good news, bad news.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: She's like, What?
47:43
SPEAKER_01: It's like I got this great raise.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Awesome.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: What's the bad news?
47:47
SPEAKER_01: It's like we gotta give it all the way.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: And she was like, I've been praying for that for the last six months.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, What do you mean?
47:53
SPEAKER_01: She's like, Well, you know, you work really hard.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: I know it's your job, it's our job, all of that, but you know, I'm trying to be gentle around giving more.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm up for giving more, but you aren't ready yet.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: And she said, now you're ready.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh man.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: So I think I know this is probably you're it's hard to see significance in the moment, but man, this is huge.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: So your wife felt a call to give more.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: She doesn't bring it up to you.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: She prays about it.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: Even though it's on her heart, she's feeling the conviction.
48:32
SPEAKER_00: She's like, I'm not saying anything until the Lord gives me the green light.
48:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, I and I don't, this isn't like we need to scold all ladies out there, but man, that is just so huge.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: Of like submission, of like to the Lord, to you, to um hear from God and know that the Lord is going to do something through you in that.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: That that's just wow, powerful to kind of see the way that Danielle was able to really let you lead in a really unique way.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Because it sounds like she doesn't nag, uh, she's not like constantly on your case about yeah, we here's what we need to do.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: She's very much uh submissive to that, but she has, she's it's not like she's lacking conviction.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: She's very much convicted.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: She just is trusting the Lord in a really specific, powerful way.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: I think I don't want to I think that you know it's like Danielle's like, way to go, you know.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: Um so okay, so you start to give.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: What happens?
49:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: Just everything.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: It's so interesting.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's so interesting.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Had you given before you you give like, was like 20 bucks or just nothing?
49:39
SPEAKER_01: Or yeah, we were probably up in, I don't know, a couple hundred.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: The classic is like we give one or two percent.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: That's what most Christians.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was so funny enough, in my uh in my workbook that I was going through with my leader.
49:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, it the question was, because as you become a leader, they talk about tithing and all that.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you tithe?
50:00
SPEAKER_01: And I wrote, yes, we give, I think it was six or seven percent.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: And I literally wrote it in there.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I don't know.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: That next week I met with him and he says, I don't want this to sound rude, but do you know what the what the word tithe means?
50:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, no, I have no idea.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Oh, it's basically the first 10%.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, so I literally, I still have the workbook.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: I just crossed it out and I write, we give.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: Good for you.
50:28
SPEAKER_01: And um, so that Chris happens on a Tuesday.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: I I meet with my leader.
50:35
SPEAKER_01: We have this very funny, slightly awkward conversation for me.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: Thursday, my boss calls me, says, Hey, this is happening.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: Thursday night, we decide we're giving all of that plus 50.
50:47
SPEAKER_01: I meet back with my leader the next Tuesday, and he's like, How was your last week?
50:50
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, It was great.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: And I tell him the story.
50:53
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Wait, what?
50:56
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yeah, said you had the conversation with me on Tuesday.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: Thursday, here's what was put on my heart.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: We gave it all plus, and here's where we're at now.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, This is so huge.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: I've had conversations for decades with people.
51:08
SPEAKER_01: He said, and I'll never forget, he said, you can always tell what's tied to somebody's heart when you go to pull on it, whether it's money or anything else, because you get like a visceral reaction when you go to pull something for sure.
51:22
SPEAKER_01: And I just realized that it's his money, it's not my money.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: So so I like one of the things we challenge our uh members here is like every year, reevaluate you give and just ask God.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: We because we don't know.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: We have we're completely blind to what people give, but we go just ask God, whatever God tells you, give that.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think that is a challenge because I mean we're like, if it's one percent, give one.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: If God calls you, give one, man, give one.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: If God calls you to give 50, give 50.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: But whatever the whatever it is, just at least talk to God about it, and then go do what God calls you specifically to do.
51:57
SPEAKER_00: So I I think that what a what a wild story.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so so like you're like, hey, we're gonna give this.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: She's like, yes, let's do it.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: So you guys start giving.
52:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:05
SPEAKER_01: And then what happens?
52:07
SPEAKER_01: It just opens the door to all other giving, right?
52:10
SPEAKER_01: We've got uh a group in Nepal, a gentleman that we did life with who is on mission, has been there for years.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: So we give monthly to it, just it opened this door to be your wife talks about it every Sunday, this joyful giver.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: And it's like the more you give, the less you realize it's about you.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: And you just how about this?
52:34
SPEAKER_01: How about that, right?
52:35
SPEAKER_01: And I I try to impart that on my children all the time.
52:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you see a need, just address it.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: We'll figure it out on the backside.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: Just be good, just just listen and be in tune to what God has for you and helping people, right?
52:50
SPEAKER_01: Because that's a big thing, our family.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: Just help people, right?
52:54
SPEAKER_01: And and do that.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: And for us, we've been financially blessed, and the ability to help has always been on our heart.
53:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what a what a cool thing.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: So you're you've you're able to give, you're seeing.
53:05
SPEAKER_00: So the Lord continues to provide more.
53:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, clearly.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: Because it's it's not like you you gave that away, you're like, oh gosh, we can't afford anything now.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: It's like that standard, the Lord continued to bless your life.
53:18
SPEAKER_00: And how do how do you evaluate what you give now?
53:21
SPEAKER_00: Do you sit down with Danielle and go, like, hey, what do you want to do this year?
53:25
SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you do that?
53:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we have multiple things um that we give to outside of tithing.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: And so you tithe to the church, and then you everything else is an addition.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: So why did you arrive at that?
53:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh or how did you arrive at that might be a fair?
53:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think over time, right?
53:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it initially began giving to the point of tithing, um, then other initiatives.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: So exciting.
53:51
SPEAKER_01: And then there was just, we've always had this hurt to go, like, gosh, so many people have helped us.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
53:57
SPEAKER_01: Why not help them?
54:00
SPEAKER_01: And as you help and you hear the stories back, right?
54:03
SPEAKER_01: And it's not about giving to get the card back or to hear the story.
54:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: Some of the most beautiful things are giving and you just never know.
54:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you're like, wow, that's wild.
54:15
SPEAKER_00: You just never know.
54:16
SPEAKER_00: But you never know, you could be, and then one day this guy came up and he got me to whatever, and they don't know your name, but they tell the story.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the stuff that reverberates in heaven.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: It is, it it becomes contagious though when you start to become in tune to like I call it God's nudge.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: I'll feel kind of this little tap on the shoulder, like, hey, you should help.
54:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, I know, but I'm busy and I gotta do this, and I got, and then be like, you should probably help.
54:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, I should probably help.
54:51
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: But I I try to keep our children moving in that way.
54:55
SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting, the more that we serve and help and give, it becomes contagious to keep doing that.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: And to keep pursuing what that is, right?
55:03
SPEAKER_01: And you almost feel like the more you do it, the more God taps you on the shoulder to go, hey, over there.
55:09
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, absolutely.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about your children now.
55:15
SPEAKER_00: Were that faith-wise?
55:16
SPEAKER_00: And how do you adult parent?
55:18
SPEAKER_00: And you still have a 16-year-old, right?
55:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
55:21
SPEAKER_00: What does that look like for you?
55:22
SPEAKER_00: And and talk about like they with your generosity, how you're are you how are you able to instill that without being weird?
55:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: Um or maybe it is weird and that's just part of it.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: No, I think for us, it's, you know, when your children get older, you move less from a a parent and more to a consultant.
55:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: Right?
55:44
SPEAKER_01: Like with my oldest one, like my heart is so warm when she calls me and she's like, hey.
55:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah.
55:50
SPEAKER_01: She's like, Do I go, do I go Roth or do I go regular?
55:54
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, ah, yes, yes.
55:57
SPEAKER_01: Because I was so financially backwards at her age and upside down.
56:02
SPEAKER_01: What a cool story that is.
56:04
SPEAKER_01: To me, I'm like, you're doing it right.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: You're doing it right.
56:07
SPEAKER_01: And so we get to have these great conversations about saving and giving and doing that is just really cool, right?
56:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think for our middle girls, right, they're finishing up their junior year in college.
56:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:20
SPEAKER_01: So they're in a little bit different phase of life for say.
56:24
SPEAKER_01: Um they're in the poor phase.
56:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:26
SPEAKER_01: That's good for them.
56:27
SPEAKER_01: But the the generosity piece, I think, is always on like the forefront.
56:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:33
SPEAKER_01: Hey, dad, um, I saw somebody and gave them that and thought of you.
56:38
unknown: Yeah.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: You're like, cool.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: That's that's back to the seeing it and feeling it, not having to be told, here's what we do.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, our our big thing is socks.
56:54
SPEAKER_01: And I started traveling a bunch, and I was like, what can I do to help people on a daily basis?
56:58
SPEAKER_01: And I saw this ad from Bombas.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, every pair we sell, we donate.
57:03
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm going to Costco.
57:06
SPEAKER_01: So I went to Costco years ago and I bought a giant thing of socks.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: I threw it in my travel backpack.
57:10
SPEAKER_01: And when I'd be out with my teams working, I would say, hey, stop.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, What?
57:15
SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, here, I'm gonna run across the street, give this gentleman a pair of socks.
57:20
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, This is weird.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, You'll get over it.
57:23
SPEAKER_01: Don't worry about it.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: And so it's turned into a whole thing.
57:26
SPEAKER_01: So I carry socks wherever we go, they're in the car.
57:29
SPEAKER_01: I travel with them.
57:30
SPEAKER_01: And now when I'm with my teams, I will build sock disciples, is what I call.
57:36
SPEAKER_01: But I'll take pairs of socks and the ones that we don't give out, I'll stick them in the side compartment and I'll send them a message afterwards and I'll go, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
57:44
SPEAKER_01: I left a couple pair of socks in there.
57:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, if if you're not comfortable, go ahead and send them back.
57:48
SPEAKER_01: But if you happen to see somebody like in need, would would you mind just handing those out?
57:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's so cool how many stories I've gotten back from team members that are like, man, I was really scared, but I rolled down the window and I handed a pair of socks and they were so thankful.
58:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, thanks for leaving those socks.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
58:07
SPEAKER_01: So you just try to keep building, right?
58:09
SPEAKER_01: And and keep giving and and helping.
58:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's wild.
58:12
SPEAKER_00: All right, talk to me about parenting now.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: Just yeah, I I love I love the the generosity side, but like how do you talk about faith now?
58:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:19
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like we're out of time.
58:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're a good.
58:23
SPEAKER_00: But uh just let's answer this one last question and then we'll wrap it up.
58:26
SPEAKER_00: But like, how do you parent now?
58:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, with the background of the financial thing, I I love the what you just said about like your daughter, that's so beautiful.
58:35
SPEAKER_00: But how do you instill faith into your kids today?
58:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even as you know, if you got adult children, college children, high school.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: What you know, our church is pretty young, and so that you're like a step ahead.
58:51
SPEAKER_00: What is the secret sauce?
58:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the confidence to speak about your faith.
58:57
SPEAKER_01: When I was in like early in faith, I was never confident enough.
59:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't know enough.
59:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've had so much sin in my past.
59:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm not good enough.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: I can't do this, I don't have scripture memorized.
59:09
SPEAKER_01: It was it was always that piece of I'm not enough.
59:13
SPEAKER_01: But later in life, I feel confident that I know with my relationship with God that that I am enough.
59:22
SPEAKER_01: And it puts faith and God at the center of my family.
59:28
SPEAKER_01: And when you do that, right, and you start with that, your children see it and you can speak to it, right?
59:35
SPEAKER_01: And and you can talk through it.
59:37
SPEAKER_01: But I think my challenge early on with parenting is I just didn't, I didn't have the confidence.
59:42
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
59:43
SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't feel I was enough.
59:44
SPEAKER_00: But and I love what you said.
59:46
SPEAKER_00: It is powerful to know that you are enough, not because of anything you've done, but because Jesus is.
59:52
SPEAKER_00: And that's what makes it all the world difference.
59:56
SPEAKER_00: David, thanks so much for joining us.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh, thanks so much for watching.
59:59
SPEAKER_00: If you got any questions, you can text in at 737 231 0605.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_00: We'd love your questions.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: And if you got any questions for David, we'd love to bring him back.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh thanks so much for watching.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_00: From our house to yours, have an awesome week of worship.