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Inside The Data: Did The Athletic Testing Of NFL Draft Safeties Meet Eagles Standard? · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

0:10
Speaker 1: Hello, welcome back to Inside the Data On Inside the Birds.
0:13
Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Mosher, and of course I got with me
0:15
Speaker 1: Sam Finkel, as we always have when we do data
0:18
Speaker 1: and analytics, and we've been doing a series on looking
0:21
Speaker 1: at every position of the NFL draft, well not every position,
0:25
Speaker 1: but a lot of positions of NFL draft prospects, and
0:28
Speaker 1: they're athletic testing and trying to put that all in
0:30
Speaker 1: perspective and especially from an Eagles viewpoint. And Sam, I
0:34
Speaker 1: don't know if there's a position right now to look
0:36
Speaker 1: at from an Eagles viewpoint more than safety, because if
0:39
Speaker 1: the Eagles had to line up and play a game today,
0:42
Speaker 1: they don't really have a starting safety. I mean, they
0:44
Speaker 1: brought back Marcus Aps after read blanket ship left, and
0:47
Speaker 1: they signed a special teamer in j. T. Gray, and
0:50
Speaker 1: mccouba is coming back from his injury, so I guess
0:53
Speaker 1: right now, and they of course trade Sydney Brown away.
0:56
Speaker 1: So what you would be looking at right now, and
0:59
Speaker 1: we're gonna remove of Cooper to Gene from the equation
1:01
Speaker 1: just for the sake of this conversation is a starting
1:04
Speaker 1: safety tandem of Macuba and Marcus EPs. One guy's a
1:09
Speaker 1: rookie or second year a player who struggled to stay
1:12
Speaker 1: healthy as a rookie. The other guy is probably he's
1:14
Speaker 1: thirty years old. He's he's really supposed to be a backup,
1:17
Speaker 1: maybe your third safety in a big nickel and then
1:21
Speaker 1: depth it would be like Andre Sam and j. T. Gray.
1:24
Speaker 1: So this is a position that's undergoing a lot of work.
1:27
Speaker 2: So what you're saying is is a position of need.
1:29
Speaker 1: I think yes a little bit, and it lines up
1:33
Speaker 1: well for the draft because it's a position of need
1:35
Speaker 1: not only now but for the future. As all like
1:39
Speaker 1: Epson a one year deal. The only person who'll be
1:41
Speaker 1: under contract out of safety right now is Andrew mccoubaugh.
1:45
Speaker 1: So it's obviously a cupboard that needs to be restocked.
1:49
Speaker 2: Well, I have some good news for you then, Yeah,
1:52
Speaker 2: I think this draft is very deep at safety this year.
1:55
Speaker 1: Awesome. That's great. Now, I we're gonna go take a
1:59
Speaker 1: look at your charts, as we've been doing all year long.
2:01
Speaker 1: When I looked at the chart you put together of
2:04
Speaker 1: safety testing at the combine, I was struck by something
2:08
Speaker 1: and I'm probably gonna need you to put it in
2:11
Speaker 1: a better perspective for me and for our listeners and
2:14
Speaker 1: viewers intriguing, What did you think overall compared to what
2:19
Speaker 1: we've done with We've done offensive line, right, we've done
2:22
Speaker 1: tight end, We've done what's the other position that we've done,
2:25
Speaker 1: edge rusher?
2:26
Speaker 2: I forget, well, we did interior, offensive line and tackle
2:29
Speaker 2: That's why.
2:29
Speaker 1: I tackle right right, and then we've also done tight end.
2:33
Speaker 1: What did you think overall when you were putting this
2:35
Speaker 1: list together, when you were done about this safety class?
2:38
Speaker 1: Besides it being deep, he felt anything jump.
2:40
Speaker 2: Out to you as an athletic freaks in this class.
2:43
Speaker 1: Really, so I was That's why I need you to
2:45
Speaker 1: put this in perspective for me, because just going through
2:48
Speaker 1: your charts, I didn't see it, and I was wondering
2:51
Speaker 1: how much of that is guys opting not to do things,
2:54
Speaker 1: and how much of that is not being ideal size,
2:57
Speaker 1: which we always say impacts your athletics. But you know,
3:00
Speaker 1: before I bring up the sheet and everything, there was
3:04
Speaker 1: nobody who tested in the nineties like you have. One guy.
3:07
Speaker 1: I think eighty six was the highest, yet a lot
3:08
Speaker 1: of seventy. I just I looked at the list and said, man,
3:12
Speaker 1: I thought I was going to see some freak of
3:14
Speaker 1: nature athletic tests just from the.
3:16
Speaker 2: Athletic score a standard that makes sense. The thing is
3:20
Speaker 2: that like some of these safeties move in ways that
3:24
Speaker 2: you expect corners to move, and it's good. You know
3:27
Speaker 2: that That's where I would distinguish it. Maybe Freaks was
3:31
Speaker 2: a little bit too optimistic, but I do think there's
3:35
Speaker 2: a lot of talent in this safety class in terms
3:37
Speaker 2: of just athletic testing. I do. I am impressed with
3:41
Speaker 2: this class.
3:42
Speaker 1: Okay, good, we'll talk about it. Yeah, and clearly you know,
3:45
Speaker 1: we'll have a Caleb Downs discussion. And there are a
3:48
Speaker 1: couple of other guys who will be either first rounders
3:51
Speaker 1: or early second rounders who can be impact players right away.
3:55
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if the Eagles would take
3:58
Speaker 1: another safety in the top, say fifty five, after they
4:02
Speaker 1: took mccouba last year in the third round. But you
4:05
Speaker 1: never know, because they're you know, if you take them
4:07
Speaker 1: for their word, which I usually do, they they really
4:10
Speaker 1: do draft the best available prospect. And there are some
4:13
Speaker 1: really good safeties in this list beyond the measurables, just
4:17
Speaker 1: even in production. So there are some teams Sam that,
4:22
Speaker 1: like the Eagles, we talk about how much they value
4:25
Speaker 1: athletic testing, and they'll take a risk on a player,
4:28
Speaker 1: say like Jaal ex Hunt. Right, you can't say he
4:30
Speaker 1: has a super productive college career because he only played
4:33
Speaker 1: the edge position for two years. I think right safety
4:38
Speaker 1: at Cornell. Of all places I've talked and observed some
4:44
Speaker 1: team like the Steelers, for example, I think that they,
4:47
Speaker 1: of course they love good athletes, but I would say
4:50
Speaker 1: their draft reflects more production three to four year players,
4:55
Speaker 1: mental and physical toughness over just the ability to like
4:58
Speaker 1: completely dominate. It's somebody in the gym room, right, So,
5:03
Speaker 1: but but we know that Eagles are really big on
5:04
Speaker 1: off like testing, especially at specific positions, and safety would
5:08
Speaker 1: be one of them.
5:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. And I think mccooba suffered
5:12
Speaker 2: last year from the fact that he's a little bit smaller,
5:14
Speaker 2: a little more compact, But athletically, I mean he's right
5:19
Speaker 2: there with all the other safety.
5:20
Speaker 1: So for sure, we saw that right away in the preseason.
5:23
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy's a playmaker. But the concerns about
5:26
Speaker 1: his size was staying healthy might have been a little
5:29
Speaker 1: bit valid because he missed some time in the preseason, right,
5:31
Speaker 1: and then he missed the camp, and then of course
5:33
Speaker 1: he missed all those games at the end of the
5:35
Speaker 1: year with the the broken ankle, I forget already sounds right,
5:39
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, so all right, well, let's take a look
5:42
Speaker 1: at your charts right now.
5:47
Speaker 2: I'd love to flip the script as soon as we
5:49
Speaker 2: get it up to oh, let's do it. Do you
5:50
Speaker 2: do you notice one of the athletic testing tests is missing?
5:55
Speaker 1: Yes? Wait, well one of the tests. It was it
5:58
Speaker 1: the was was it the code?
6:00
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, do you know why it's missing? Nobody decided
6:03
Speaker 2: to do it or not a single safety did it?
6:07
Speaker 1: That's weird.
6:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was weird too.
6:10
Speaker 1: Now I know that the cone matters more for some positions.
6:13
Speaker 1: Another we talked about like maybe interior offensive lignment right,
6:17
Speaker 1: just do your agility, your left right movement. But I
6:19
Speaker 1: would think that at a position like safety, any kind
6:22
Speaker 1: of athletic testing would be to your benefit to do
6:25
Speaker 1: because that's a position of great athletes.
6:27
Speaker 2: Typically it's here, so it's right here, you know it exists.
6:34
Speaker 1: Like you just pop that in. It's into the screen.
6:37
Speaker 1: So nobody not once? And why did only three people
6:40
Speaker 1: elect to do the short shuttle.
6:41
Speaker 2: It's a good question.
6:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get the bench. I think the bench. Okay,
6:46
Speaker 1: so that's that's a position you want your a ligneman
6:48
Speaker 1: to do and you don't care if your corners and
6:50
Speaker 1: safety do it. That's like the reality of it.
6:53
Speaker 2: But at the same time it's it's just really interesting
6:56
Speaker 2: I think doing it this way, seeing what tests people
6:59
Speaker 2: opted in and opted out of, and you know a
7:01
Speaker 2: lot of that's agent driven. But I always wonder, like
7:05
Speaker 2: you see positions not testing the same thing, like the
7:08
Speaker 2: three cone, and it makes me wonder like, did they
7:13
Speaker 2: all kind of agree to Probably not a conclusion. I
7:17
Speaker 2: wouldn't go that. I mean, I really wouldn't go that far,
7:19
Speaker 2: but it is kind of fun to think about, like
7:21
Speaker 2: how these decisions get made.
7:22
Speaker 1: Sure, So let's talk about the number one guy, Caleb Downs,
7:27
Speaker 1: who's you know, probably I can't imagine. He's not the
7:29
Speaker 1: first safety off the board, so he does know he
7:33
Speaker 1: just sits on his production. I don't know if Ohio
7:36
Speaker 1: State had his pro day yet. It might be actually today,
7:38
Speaker 1: I don't know, but either way, he'll probably just sit
7:42
Speaker 1: on his production. No, so his overall score without doing
7:46
Speaker 1: anything is a seventy six. So does that mean Sam
7:49
Speaker 1: that the score reflects just as measurables in theory.
7:55
Speaker 2: That is my understanding of it. I don't know entirely
7:58
Speaker 2: if that's accurate, and there's no way to really know
8:03
Speaker 2: how they calculate it. I do think it's over stated
8:08
Speaker 2: by his measurables, but there could be other factors that
8:14
Speaker 2: influence it that we're just unaware of because it's not
8:17
Speaker 2: public how they come up with the formula.
8:21
Speaker 1: Right, because he's six feet, he's two hundred and six pounds,
8:25
Speaker 1: that's pretty good for safety. That's you know, you got
8:27
Speaker 1: no issue with that. You know you'll take that size, right,
8:30
Speaker 1: so you know, things like arm length and ham size
8:32
Speaker 1: aren't that really important for safety.
8:35
Speaker 2: And these numbers will get updated with the pro day.
8:38
Speaker 2: I do know that. So like a lot of remember
8:41
Speaker 2: when I did the charts last year, the quadrant charts. Yeah,
8:46
Speaker 2: when I did that, I had to be careful of
8:48
Speaker 2: when I did them because as the pro days were
8:50
Speaker 2: coming in, those numbers would update. So I want to
8:53
Speaker 2: make sure I had the most updates. So even the
8:54
Speaker 2: numbers you see today will get updated as the draft
8:58
Speaker 2: process goes on.
9:00
Speaker 1: Got it? Good stuff? Okay, So maybe maybe like right
9:04
Speaker 1: before the draft, we can do like a stock up
9:07
Speaker 1: stock down based on athletic changes in your athletics score
9:11
Speaker 1: kind of po We'll keep an eye on that. Yeah,
9:15
Speaker 1: but Downs is clearly going to be the top die,
9:17
Speaker 1: you know, and it would be really really tough for
9:19
Speaker 1: the Eagles to be able to even get him unless
9:21
Speaker 1: you know, they're packaging some some picks and moving up right,
9:26
Speaker 1: which you know you can't really Ever since the Eagles
9:28
Speaker 1: draft and Johad Campbell, I think you have to kind
9:30
Speaker 1: of keep an open mind, Like, could they draft a
9:32
Speaker 1: tight end? We talked about Sadik right in the first round.
9:35
Speaker 1: I guess can't slam the door on. I still think
9:37
Speaker 1: they're more likely to go offensive tackle too, and perhaps
9:43
Speaker 1: maybe edge rusher if they don't come out with one
9:45
Speaker 1: in the trade market before the draft.
9:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it'll be really interesting. There's a lot
9:50
Speaker 2: of needs and you know, positions that could be bolstered
9:56
Speaker 2: and probably should be bolstered by the Eagles. So it'd
9:58
Speaker 2: be really interesting to see where they end up going.
10:01
Speaker 1: All Right, So the guy who kind of was the
10:03
Speaker 1: king of athletic testing is he's also a pretty good prospect. Dylan,
10:09
Speaker 1: Did I pronounce that correctly?
10:10
Speaker 2: Yeah? Alright?
10:12
Speaker 1: From from Oregon? So he did? Is he the only
10:15
Speaker 1: one to actually test in all six categories.
10:20
Speaker 2: I think I might be right, Yeah, I mean he
10:23
Speaker 2: didn't do the shuttle.
10:25
Speaker 1: But oh well, I already I eliminated. No, you're right,
10:30
Speaker 1: he didn't do the shuttle. I was thinking cone for
10:31
Speaker 1: a second, right, So okay, So he did one, two, three,
10:34
Speaker 1: five of the six. The only person to do all
10:37
Speaker 1: six might have been Kilgore from South.
10:40
Speaker 2: Carolina, right, yeah, I think so okay.
10:43
Speaker 1: Good for him.
10:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely definitely good for him. I he's definitely
10:47
Speaker 2: a guy. I was hoping to shout out a little
10:49
Speaker 2: bit too once we get to it about I mean,
10:55
Speaker 2: he has everything you're looking for at safety. Usually with safety,
11:00
Speaker 2: I mean four to three speed at safety is insane. Yes,
11:05
Speaker 2: I mean I think teams would be comfortable anywhere from
11:09
Speaker 2: like four four to four five at the worst at safety.
11:12
Speaker 2: So four three five at safety is really good. And
11:16
Speaker 2: the forty matters a little bit more. The split matters too,
11:19
Speaker 2: But the split probably matters a little bit more. But
11:22
Speaker 2: the forty does matter more than it did with the
11:25
Speaker 2: other positions we've looked at. Another thing is with vertical
11:30
Speaker 2: Usually anything over like thirty five is pretty great for
11:35
Speaker 2: a safety and he's at forty one, So I think
11:38
Speaker 2: that really showcases his abilities and what he could do
11:44
Speaker 2: just from a traits perspective and physical tools as broad
11:49
Speaker 2: as ten oh five. And his bench was the best
11:52
Speaker 2: at eighteen and by the way, his vertical was second best,
11:56
Speaker 2: which so pretty good all around.
11:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, he's twenty second overall on Daniel Jeremiah's
12:03
Speaker 1: Top fifty prospects. And the interesting thing about him is
12:07
Speaker 1: that I guess I know a little bit. I know
12:10
Speaker 1: I'm not putting him in the Nick Ammen Worri class,
12:12
Speaker 1: even though he did test well athletically. But he did
12:15
Speaker 1: play all around Oregon's defensive front. It's not like they
12:19
Speaker 1: just lined up in safety and sid play safety. He
12:21
Speaker 1: was like a box. He was a deep safety. I
12:23
Speaker 1: think he plays some nickel. So he has a very
12:26
Speaker 1: wide ranging skill set. That's what teams are looking for
12:28
Speaker 1: now in these positionless defenses era that we're in. You
12:33
Speaker 1: saw how impactful it was for Nick Ammen Warrior in
12:35
Speaker 1: that Seattle defense, right.
12:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know I loved Nick Ammen Warry as
12:39
Speaker 2: a prospect. I talked him up. How did we used
12:41
Speaker 2: him as a teacher of the thumbnail for the video.
12:44
Speaker 2: Last year, he was the post.
12:45
Speaker 1: Of child for the for oh. I don't want to
12:47
Speaker 1: call him a workout warrior because he was also a
12:48
Speaker 1: productive player, but he completely dominated the gym.
12:51
Speaker 2: Yes.
12:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyway, it sounds like Tianneman has a chance
12:58
Speaker 1: to be a first rounder if the teams at the
13:03
Speaker 1: bottom of the first round go less on what positional
13:07
Speaker 1: value and more on just getting the best available talent.
13:10
Speaker 2: Right. I totally can see a world where that happens.
13:13
Speaker 2: So I'm trying to get I'm in worries. Athletic score
13:20
Speaker 2: was ninety one.
13:20
Speaker 1: By the way, ninety one, then see that's why this
13:23
Speaker 1: class shimped out. To me, we did the highest here
13:25
Speaker 1: with stanem In at eighty six, and then the next
13:28
Speaker 1: highest athletic score I think it's eighty. Right, that's a
13:31
Speaker 1: big drop off. You got a couple of guys tied
13:33
Speaker 1: for it, but that's a kind of a big drop off.
13:36
Speaker 2: It is, but I feel like they're all relatively consistently
13:41
Speaker 2: in that same range, and I feel like where that
13:45
Speaker 2: range is athletically is more than acceptable for starting safeties.
13:50
Speaker 2: So I guess that would be more my overall point.
13:53
Speaker 2: I do get a little optimistic in these evaluations and
13:59
Speaker 2: frequently been a little too fun.
14:01
Speaker 1: I'm going to read you in sometimes.
14:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, I get excited about this stuff. I think
14:06
Speaker 2: it's really fun and it's it's great, awesome.
14:12
Speaker 1: Another guy who has been talked about, and this guy
14:15
Speaker 1: is actually fifteenth on Daniel Jeremiah's top fifty. So this
14:20
Speaker 1: guy is ranked even higher than Thiane Man is Emmanuel
14:24
Speaker 1: Neil McNeil Warren, a Toledo guy who I believe he
14:28
Speaker 1: overlapped for a year with Quinion Mitchell at.
14:32
Speaker 2: Toledo defensive back. So don't do well in the league, right,
14:34
Speaker 2: that's that's whatever.
14:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna put out two first rounders.
14:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, good for them.
14:40
Speaker 1: If this guy goes in the first round, that's pretty impressive. Yeah,
14:44
Speaker 1: and a lot of that as their coach, by the way,
14:45
Speaker 1: who's no longer there, Jason Kandall. He's now I believe,
14:48
Speaker 1: the Yukon coach. But for those who don't know, Jason Kandall,
14:51
Speaker 1: the Toledo coach, was a teammate of both Nick Sirianni
14:57
Speaker 1: and Matt Campbell, the Penn State coach at Mount Union
15:01
Speaker 1: under coach Karris who's like is now all of a
15:04
Speaker 1: sudden has a tree. It's unbelievable. Right, this is a
15:07
Speaker 1: pretty good coaching tree, right there, A.
15:09
Speaker 2: Good coaching tree, no doubt.
15:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's that out about McNeil Warren.
15:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, there's nothing that you know, metals
15:18
Speaker 2: in our Olympic style, which by the way, I did
15:21
Speaker 2: make them darker so hopefully that.
15:23
Speaker 1: Yes, like me, I was so much. I'm like, oh yeah,
15:26
Speaker 1: this guy's definitely gold, this guy's sober, this guy's bronze.
15:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh, there's nothing that's crazy in that regard.
15:34
Speaker 1: His forty is.
15:36
Speaker 2: Right within that acceptable range like I said, four four
15:39
Speaker 2: to four five you feel pretty good about for safety,
15:41
Speaker 2: he's at four or five two. That's acceptable. His split
15:45
Speaker 2: is fine, it's one five eight, I mean that's fine.
15:50
Speaker 2: His vertical is right about over where you'd want it.
15:52
Speaker 2: But like I said, about thirty five is where you're looking.
15:54
Speaker 2: He's at thirty five point five, so that's that's fine.
15:57
Speaker 2: And then broad is good at ten oh two. You know,
16:01
Speaker 2: you don't really want to see the broad in the nines.
16:04
Speaker 2: Typically that's for safety at least again it's very position dependent.
16:11
Speaker 2: And then as athleticsim's at seventy five so I think
16:14
Speaker 2: seventy five is great. Like I think a good example
16:18
Speaker 2: is like Kyle Hamilton. His was seventy three. I think, yeah,
16:23
Speaker 2: I remember he.
16:24
Speaker 1: Got knocked for not blowing it up at the combine
16:27
Speaker 1: and everyone was worried about his forty speed.
16:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, player, right, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think
16:33
Speaker 2: anyone over like seventy two is competent enough to start
16:38
Speaker 2: at safety and then if you get to that upper area,
16:40
Speaker 2: you know, that's where you feel really good about a
16:42
Speaker 2: guy athletically, at.
16:43
Speaker 1: Least right sorright. So these guys more than past the muster,
16:47
Speaker 1: is what you're saying.
16:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I just think that was confident in this spot. Sorry,
16:52
Speaker 2: what you're saying, Well, that's just why I feel confident
16:55
Speaker 2: in this class at least being pretty deep, at least athletically.
17:00
Speaker 2: You see a pretty good middling of the of these guys,
17:04
Speaker 2: like they're they're all kind of grouping together.
17:07
Speaker 1: Sure, all right, So those three guys we just discussed, downs, McNeil,
17:12
Speaker 1: Warren and Thianamen are all the likeliest to go in
17:16
Speaker 1: the first round, if not locks, right, I think everybody
17:19
Speaker 1: after that is going to fall into place from round
17:22
Speaker 1: two and on sure, anybody so who jumps out at
17:27
Speaker 1: you here from an athletic testing standpoint and also from what.
17:30
Speaker 2: We know about their production, yeah, I mean, look, there's
17:33
Speaker 2: a couple guys that you have to talk about, right,
17:35
Speaker 2: like Lorenzo Styles Junior. Yes, right, I mean running four
17:38
Speaker 2: to two seven at safety is insane. Having the best
17:42
Speaker 2: split at one four nine insane, and again well over
17:46
Speaker 2: that thirty five vertical at thirty nine. And those are
17:50
Speaker 2: the only tests that Lorenzo Styles did in eighty And
17:54
Speaker 2: it's hard because he was next to Caleb Downs, so
17:59
Speaker 2: makes it a little difficult to say, like maybe in
18:02
Speaker 2: a different class where Caleb Downs isn't here, Styles gets
18:05
Speaker 2: talked about a little bit more. But his production score
18:08
Speaker 2: was not great, and there are some flaws to his
18:13
Speaker 2: game for sure, But from an athletic standpoint, I mean.
18:16
Speaker 1: You have to we have to talk about him. We
18:17
Speaker 1: have to talk about him absolutely. I mean, he ripped
18:20
Speaker 1: the like you just said, he ripped it up in
18:24
Speaker 1: the forty.
18:26
Speaker 2: Do you have any more comments on him?
18:27
Speaker 1: Before I go to my next I was just gonna say,
18:30
Speaker 1: is it rare to see a guy who can run
18:34
Speaker 1: a forty like that? But then per se doesn't have
18:39
Speaker 1: outside of the forty and the split. His others well,
18:41
Speaker 1: I guess he only did the vertical. He didn't do
18:43
Speaker 1: anything else. See, this is a guy I would have
18:46
Speaker 1: been really interested because usually if you are a freak
18:48
Speaker 1: of nature that can do that, you can probably master
18:52
Speaker 1: other athletic testing too, right, So I would be interested
18:56
Speaker 1: if he had tried I mean even the vertical thirty
18:58
Speaker 1: nine you said an X, A good one is thirty
19:00
Speaker 1: five right on? Okay, so he's like, he's pretty above
19:05
Speaker 1: thirty thirty nine and thirty nine to fifty was the
19:10
Speaker 1: the third place the bronze medal, so he was pretty
19:13
Speaker 1: close to medaling on that too.
19:14
Speaker 2: Yep, exactly, so impressed by his athleticism. And then two
19:20
Speaker 2: guys that I really just want to talk about a
19:23
Speaker 2: little bit, Jalen Kilgore, who we talked about a little bit.
19:28
Speaker 2: He is very interesting. I mean, he had the best
19:32
Speaker 2: tied for the best broad jump at ten ten. His
19:36
Speaker 2: shuttle was the second best. There's only three guys running it,
19:38
Speaker 2: that doesn't really mean that much, and his bench was
19:41
Speaker 2: the second best one there's only four guys doing it,
19:43
Speaker 2: so again doesn't mean that much. But that very interesting.
19:46
Speaker 2: Prospect athletically.
19:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if guys like take a look at
19:50
Speaker 1: the list, by the way, and say, oh, well, geez,
19:53
Speaker 1: there's only two guys I'm going to get in this,
19:55
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm automatically going to be a top three finisher.
19:59
Speaker 2: To be fair, they don't care about meddling in my
20:01
Speaker 2: charts though unfortunately no I know that.
20:03
Speaker 1: But I'm saying like, even if you just know, like
20:06
Speaker 1: you only have two people who are you're competing against
20:08
Speaker 1: and not competing against, but we're also in the same category.
20:12
Speaker 2: I think the only reason I would say no to
20:15
Speaker 2: that is because teams have a sophisticated understanding of what
20:19
Speaker 2: they're looking for athletically. And again, not every great prospect
20:24
Speaker 2: is going to meet these thresholds because not every person
20:27
Speaker 2: is the same. But they have historical data on like
20:32
Speaker 2: where guys tested in the past. So I feel like
20:35
Speaker 2: in order for you to do these tests, they need
20:37
Speaker 2: to hit a certain threshold just to even like, being
20:40
Speaker 2: the best when there's only one guy doing an event
20:43
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that much if your testing numbers are not great.
20:47
Speaker 1: Of course, that actually makes a lot of sense. So
20:51
Speaker 1: what else do you want to say about cooler.
20:54
Speaker 2: No, I just I think I said what I needed to.
20:56
Speaker 2: What I will say is maybe one day they will
20:59
Speaker 2: care about medaling in our charts, because that's where I'd
21:02
Speaker 2: like to get to that level for us and inside
21:05
Speaker 2: that data.
21:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we'll create the ITD meddling and we'll have
21:11
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21:13
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21:16
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21:19
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Speaker 1: good stuff. So again, Kilgore was one of the few
23:47
Speaker 1: people who meddled in more than one category. Is there
23:52
Speaker 1: any have we talked about anybody who meddled like a
23:54
Speaker 1: different medal in each a gold of silver, bronze and
23:58
Speaker 1: spirits Jennings, He didn't gold.
24:01
Speaker 2: No, but trad and Stukes is And that's who the
24:02
Speaker 2: guy I was really excited to talk about too.
24:04
Speaker 1: Okay, tell us about trade and Stukes.
24:08
Speaker 2: Okay, So I played football in high school with a
24:10
Speaker 2: guy last name Stukes, and so I think there's just
24:13
Speaker 2: an affinity for me to say Stukes. Either way, it
24:16
Speaker 2: would be really cool. I'm very impressed with his athletic profile.
24:20
Speaker 2: I mean, he's right there among you know, some of
24:23
Speaker 2: the better players. A four to three three, forty yard dash,
24:28
Speaker 2: a one to five split, great both excellent thing excellent
24:33
Speaker 2: testing measurables, thirty eight vertical, feel great about it, the
24:38
Speaker 2: ten ten broad tiede for the best. Again, everything you
24:44
Speaker 2: tested well in every single category. That that great.
24:48
Speaker 1: That's going to help this kid a lot. I mean,
24:50
Speaker 1: this kid come up. Maybe he's a Day two kid
24:52
Speaker 1: because of this too.
24:53
Speaker 2: Sure, I think so too.
24:55
Speaker 1: So people know if you don't, if you're listening and
24:58
Speaker 1: you're not looking at the art, gold in the broad,
25:02
Speaker 1: silver in the split, bronze in the forty yard.
25:05
Speaker 2: Dash, so have the correct you have that correct?
25:07
Speaker 1: All right? Now? I can read these charts good stuff,
25:11
Speaker 1: and I think I'm trying to look. Did anybody else
25:14
Speaker 1: take home a gold, a silver and a bronze on
25:16
Speaker 1: this list?
25:17
Speaker 2: There is someone that took home two golds and a silver.
25:21
Speaker 1: Yes, let's go to him.
25:23
Speaker 2: Genesis Smith.
25:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, great name. Honestly this way, can I real quick
25:30
Speaker 1: of trading Stokes in Arizona.
25:32
Speaker 2: There you go. You know, it's crazy. There's there's three
25:36
Speaker 2: Arizona unless unless I meant to put Arizona state from
25:42
Speaker 2: one of them, I don't think so.
25:44
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, poor Dalton Johnson, who's the third Arizona guy,
25:48
Speaker 1: did not meddle in any of the while these two
25:51
Speaker 1: athletic freaks are just taking home gold, silvers and bronze.
25:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's crazy. Do you do you have any
25:57
Speaker 2: insight on any of these guys?
25:59
Speaker 1: You know, I haven't really, we haven't done him safety
26:02
Speaker 1: yet with Greg Coseel yet and the only guys I
26:06
Speaker 1: really have been focusing on so far were downs Daneman,
26:11
Speaker 1: mcwarren McNeil Warren, the guys I thought, I know a
26:14
Speaker 1: little bit as a key weekly because obviously you and
26:16
Speaker 1: I have a of a Penn State tie, and I
26:19
Speaker 1: completely expect I didn't expect him to not participate in
26:23
Speaker 1: almost all the events. I knew he was not. Athleticism
26:26
Speaker 1: is not his game. You know that, you know, I mean,
26:27
Speaker 1: he's a he's a good safety, I think though, by.
26:30
Speaker 2: The way, they all are Arizona. I did not make
26:33
Speaker 2: a mistake. I didn't think so, but I was just
26:34
Speaker 2: got me nervous there seeing three Arizona guys. But yes,
26:38
Speaker 2: is a key wheat Lee. Let's take a second to
26:40
Speaker 2: talk about him. Okay, A little disappointed in a lot
26:46
Speaker 2: of reasons. One, his vertical is below where you'd want
26:49
Speaker 2: to see it, well below, well below. His broad is fine.
26:53
Speaker 2: I mean it's over ten, which is kind of what
26:55
Speaker 2: you're looking for, right, But and he didn't test anything else.
27:00
Speaker 2: It's just it's I don't know. I don't know if
27:03
Speaker 2: his film on his own would justify taking him anywhere
27:08
Speaker 2: past like a flyer late rounds.
27:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you don't normally see guys who are day two,
27:16
Speaker 1: day three, you know, fighting like opt to just sit
27:19
Speaker 1: on their production, you know, especially they didn't have like
27:22
Speaker 1: you know, is they're not like a Heisman finalist or
27:24
Speaker 1: if they weren't a whatever trophy winner that you know,
27:27
Speaker 1: like for the best. I forget who the well who's
27:29
Speaker 1: the safety trophy named after? Or is it just d
27:31
Speaker 1: back in college? Right?
27:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I listen, I play NCAA all the time, so
27:36
Speaker 2: I should know this.
27:37
Speaker 1: No, I know, I feel like I know all the
27:38
Speaker 1: other the Walker Award, the Davey O'Brien Awards.
27:41
Speaker 2: I think it might just be defensive back.
27:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is, but I don't even remember
27:45
Speaker 1: who the awards named after it. It's not is it?
27:48
Speaker 1: The the receiver is the Fred Blitnikoff Award. I literally
27:52
Speaker 1: can tell you all of them, but I can't right now.
27:54
Speaker 1: Think of the College Award for the best Event.
27:57
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's Jim Thorpe.
27:59
Speaker 1: Of course, that makes sense, makes sense. So yeah, So
28:03
Speaker 1: my point was saying was if you're like a Thorp
28:06
Speaker 1: Award winner, right, and you're a safety, then you're fine,
28:09
Speaker 1: like you know, you can sit on your production.
28:11
Speaker 2: But he was not. Yeah, it's a little disappointing in
28:15
Speaker 2: my mind. And what he did test that, I mean,
28:18
Speaker 2: you have one that's not good and one that's okay.
28:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that wasn't great for him, No, I don't
28:25
Speaker 1: think so. Now he'll have an opportunity at his produce. Well,
28:29
Speaker 1: he already had, I think the pro day you already had.
28:32
Speaker 1: So I don't know if he I just did a
28:35
Speaker 1: quick Google check and it said that he did improve
28:38
Speaker 1: on his vertical and broad jump from the combine, but
28:40
Speaker 1: I cannot find the exact numbers. Okay, maybe I can
28:45
Speaker 1: give you one second weakly weakly wheatly. So he was
28:55
Speaker 1: a ten to four in the broad jump at Penn State.
29:00
Speaker 2: And what was the other thing that we were wondering
29:02
Speaker 2: about his vertical?
29:03
Speaker 1: His vertical was a thirty three again not yeah, yeah,
29:10
Speaker 1: not not ideal. So he did run the forty and
29:13
Speaker 1: a four to six to two, which, you know, not great.
29:16
Speaker 2: He wanted four, four to four five ideally.
29:19
Speaker 1: Right, So he's not an athletic freaking nature, And what
29:21
Speaker 1: are you gonna do? Not everybody is yeah, four to one,
29:24
Speaker 1: one in the I'm sorry, I'm sorry, not one, six
29:28
Speaker 1: eight nine in the three cone.
29:29
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, interesting. Yeah, there's one guy I don't believe
29:35
Speaker 2: we talked about that we need to talk about too.
29:38
Speaker 2: Let's do it, uh, And that's Robert Spears Jennings from Oklahoma,
29:43
Speaker 2: Colahoma guy. Yeah, I think we mentioned him, but we
29:45
Speaker 2: didn't really go into his testing.
29:47
Speaker 1: We mentioned as someone who had multiple medals.
29:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean second best in the forty at four
29:54
Speaker 2: to three to two. Again, freak of nature in that regard,
29:57
Speaker 2: third best in the split, and you would hope he'd
29:59
Speaker 2: be there with the second best forty time. That is
30:03
Speaker 2: also really interesting, by the way, when you see their
30:06
Speaker 2: splits not necessarily lining up with being the fastest. It
30:10
Speaker 2: just talks about like how they get their speed right,
30:12
Speaker 2: Like are they guys that can get to that gear
30:14
Speaker 2: faster or do they need like a little bit more time.
30:16
Speaker 2: And I do think that translates a little bit more
30:20
Speaker 2: seeing where they are from their split to their final time, sure,
30:24
Speaker 2: whether they can change gears and how fast they can
30:26
Speaker 2: change gears. Sorry, it's an exciting thing to talk about,
30:30
Speaker 2: it is, and that's.
30:31
Speaker 1: The kind of stuff that helps these guys with their
30:33
Speaker 1: draft stock. I mean, especially when you're talking about day
30:35
Speaker 1: three guys, right, and you know the teams have value
30:38
Speaker 1: athletic testing will take a look at that. They'll line
30:41
Speaker 1: it up with the tape. But they'll take a chance
30:43
Speaker 1: on someone who elects to do everything and wows you
30:46
Speaker 1: with athleticism as opposed to someone who doesn't do anything
30:50
Speaker 1: and isn't the greatest athlete and may not have the
30:51
Speaker 1: greatest production.
30:52
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and then his vertical was right at that thirty
30:56
Speaker 2: five threshold. And then the broad jump with ten oh five,
31:00
Speaker 2: which is pretty good, yeah, not too far away from
31:04
Speaker 2: the bronze medal at ten oh seven, and then to
31:07
Speaker 2: shuttle again only three people did it. He was the
31:09
Speaker 2: worst automatic metaler though at four four three.
31:14
Speaker 1: The worst of the three, the worst of the three
31:17
Speaker 1: still third best, Yes, still third best. All right, good stuff.
31:22
Speaker 1: That is a look at the athletic testing for safeties.
31:26
Speaker 1: Very exciting and of course again it's a it's a
31:29
Speaker 1: position that the Eagles will be laser focused on at
31:32
Speaker 1: some point in the draft. That would be surprised if
31:35
Speaker 1: they came away from their entire draft hall with the
31:38
Speaker 1: nine picks that they currently have. We know that'll change,
31:41
Speaker 1: but if safety wasn't somewhere, uh, you know, in their
31:45
Speaker 1: draft hall when all is said and done, yep, all right,
31:49
Speaker 1: that will do it for inside the data for Sam Finkel,
31:52
Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Mosher. We'll catch you all on the next one.
32:01
Speaker 1: OD