Latest / The Body Pod / Fat Loss Nutrition Guidelines for Menopausal Women: Part Two with Mikki Williden - Macronutrient Strategies & Food Timing

Transcript

Fat Loss Nutrition Guidelines for Menopausal Women: Part Two with Mikki Williden - Macronutrient Strategies & Food Timing · The Body Pod

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, This is Haley and I'm Lara, and welcome
0:03
Speaker 1: to the Body Pod. Okay, Mickey, welcome back. So here
0:13
Speaker 1: we are. I want to really dive into and start
0:17
Speaker 1: with the cardial portion. So we hear a lot and
0:21
Speaker 1: there's there are definitely sides of the you know, the
0:24
Speaker 1: different types of cardio that Perry and postmenopausal women should do.
0:29
Speaker 1: What does the science say, the current science say? This
0:32
Speaker 1: is where I feel like, you know, any exercise is
0:36
Speaker 1: good exercise, and if it's getting you out the door,
0:39
Speaker 1: that's what you should be doing. But where does that
0:42
Speaker 1: come into place in this age group?
0:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question, Haley. And there's just so much chatter
0:49
Speaker 2: about this right now as well, because I'm absolutely with you.
0:53
Speaker 2: I'm like, any exercise that someone can do is going
0:56
Speaker 2: to be great. And you know, zone and the Zone
1:00
Speaker 2: two training is the one that immediately pops to mind.
1:02
Speaker 2: There seems to be some you know, camps that say
1:07
Speaker 2: women should not do zone two training and don't need
1:10
Speaker 2: to do Zone two training.
1:12
Speaker 3: And then there are.
1:14
Speaker 2: Other people probably a bit like uster to like, do
1:16
Speaker 2: what you love, get out there and just move because
1:19
Speaker 2: it's important as well and as far as research goes
1:24
Speaker 2: to the best of my knowledge, there've been no human
1:28
Speaker 2: clinical trials of women in our age group to show
1:31
Speaker 2: that zone two training is neither as detrimental or sort
1:36
Speaker 2: of mutual to health. And you know, we often hear
1:40
Speaker 2: that women are more metabolically flexible than men, so they
1:44
Speaker 2: do not need to do the zone two training for
1:46
Speaker 2: the same reasons that men do zone two training. Uh.
1:51
Speaker 2: And if they're thinking about metabolic flexibility, I think that
1:55
Speaker 2: they may be referring to there are a couple of
1:57
Speaker 2: things that they're referring to, and one of them is
1:58
Speaker 2: the you know, how much fat we burn during exercise,
2:02
Speaker 2: and many try many studies have shown that women do
2:05
Speaker 2: tend to burn more fat during exercise than men, so
2:08
Speaker 2: they're more metabolically flexible that way, and they can better
2:12
Speaker 2: access carbohydrate stores. But those studies aren't done on perimenopausal women.
2:18
Speaker 2: They're done on young women. And I think this is
2:21
Speaker 2: where the where the real difference lies, because there is
2:25
Speaker 2: there is research to show that women in perimenopausal and
2:29
Speaker 2: postmenopausal age are less metabolically flexible. You know, they lose
2:33
Speaker 2: that metabolic flexibility, so they lose the ability to burn fat,
2:37
Speaker 2: which sort of suppress so they have a suppressed fat oxidation,
2:42
Speaker 2: so they're more likely to burn sugar and rely on sugar,
2:45
Speaker 2: and that's when that sort of kicks off, this metabolically
2:51
Speaker 2: inflexible system. And if you can't, if you can't burn
2:56
Speaker 2: fat as a fuel substrate and you need to rely
3:00
Speaker 2: on sugar, then you just run the risk of ramping
3:03
Speaker 2: up inflammation, fluctuating blood sugar levels, increased cravings produce energy.
3:10
Speaker 2: That's just from an almost like what someone might feel
3:14
Speaker 2: point perspective, but under the hood, it's you know, it
3:18
Speaker 2: sets you up for poor metabolic health. So the idea
3:22
Speaker 2: that women in our age group don't need to do
3:24
Speaker 2: zone to training just seems it doesn't make sense in
3:28
Speaker 2: my mind, to be honest.
3:30
Speaker 4: Yes, and we're both forty seven.
3:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But I like something that you said in
3:36
Speaker 1: the podcast, in one of your podcasts, where you said,
3:39
Speaker 1: just because we might be born more with more Type
3:44
Speaker 1: one muscle fibers, doesn't mean that we stay that that's
3:49
Speaker 1: the way we stay for the rest of our life.
3:51
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting, Hailey, because I looked at
3:53
Speaker 2: that research too, and you know the research that I
3:57
Speaker 2: saw on it, and I maybe I might be missing
3:59
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of papers, which you know it could be.
4:03
Speaker 2: But from it, what it appears is that women do
4:06
Speaker 2: tend to have a higher percentage of type one fibers
4:12
Speaker 2: compared to men. But those amount of fibers in our
4:15
Speaker 2: body is actually quite a small percentage of the overall
4:17
Speaker 2: fiber types that exist, so that they would make a
4:20
Speaker 2: real meaningful difference to your metabolic flexibility is questionable to
4:26
Speaker 2: begin with. But also some of the research I see
4:29
Speaker 2: that it's used to promote the idea that we don't
4:31
Speaker 2: need to do zone to training. That research itself shows
4:35
Speaker 2: that sort of beyond the age of sixty, those differences change,
4:40
Speaker 2: those differences are no longer there. So you know, if
4:44
Speaker 2: we're thinking about women as we're perim and we're into perimenopause,
4:48
Speaker 2: postmenopause and beyond, like, there is no real difference between
4:52
Speaker 2: men and women in terms of those muscle fiber types
4:54
Speaker 2: as well. So one, I don't know how meaningful that is.
4:57
Speaker 2: It might be clinically, it might be statistically significant, but
5:01
Speaker 2: how meaningful is it in real life? And to those
5:04
Speaker 2: differences seem to dissolve. And hey, but again, like I say,
5:10
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not diving into muscle type of muscle
5:14
Speaker 2: fiber type papers every day and hadn't done a PhD
5:17
Speaker 2: on it, so maybe I could be missing something.
5:20
Speaker 4: Okay, well for your PhD and nutrition.
5:23
Speaker 1: This is what I always get asked to and I'm
5:26
Speaker 1: running a course right now, and so these questions are
5:28
Speaker 1: are it's a very large, large group and there's a
5:31
Speaker 1: lot of questions.
5:32
Speaker 4: Can you.
5:34
Speaker 1: Lose or what is the current research say about can
5:40
Speaker 1: you lose visceral and body fat if you aren't in
5:46
Speaker 1: a calorie deficit?
5:51
Speaker 2: No, in order to lose in order to lose fat,
5:54
Speaker 2: So you like, in terms of if you're going into
5:57
Speaker 2: a fat lost phase, you absolutely need to be in
6:00
Speaker 2: a calorie deficit. Visceral fat might be different, like because
6:06
Speaker 2: visceral fat can change when you change your diet or
6:09
Speaker 2: change your practices around training. And when this is in fact,
6:14
Speaker 2: we're a little bit of intimateent. Fasting for these people
6:18
Speaker 2: might actually be beneficial. But fat loss requires a calorie deficit.
6:23
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So I mean and that's the hard thing
6:27
Speaker 1: is I think that a lot of women, at least
6:30
Speaker 1: coming into my courses, they have always been under fueling
6:36
Speaker 1: and over exercising, and they're like I don't want to
6:39
Speaker 1: go down that road again. And I think there's a
6:41
Speaker 1: whole different conversation for disordered eating. Yeah, and that that
6:46
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about today. But if we look for
6:48
Speaker 1: the general female, that's like, Okay, I got the message,
6:52
Speaker 1: I'm going to start strength training, I'm cleaning up my diet.
6:56
Speaker 1: I'm you know, listening to all of these things that
6:57
Speaker 1: you say, I'm adding more protein.
7:00
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah, all of this stuff.
7:03
Speaker 1: Can they significantly shift their body fat percentage the amount
7:07
Speaker 1: of body fat they carry if they are not in
7:10
Speaker 1: a calorie deficit.
7:13
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
7:16
Speaker 4: Okay, I haven't ever seen it.
7:18
Speaker 1: I mean I there's body recomposition where you can like
7:22
Speaker 1: lose fat build muscle. It's such the holy gril that
7:26
Speaker 1: for women that I work with one on one, it's
7:31
Speaker 1: it's just not like these body transformations. Aren't half any
7:35
Speaker 1: happening where you're in a surplus and losing body fat.
7:40
Speaker 3: No, No, like that.
7:41
Speaker 2: They're like what I think, Hailey, And this is in
7:45
Speaker 2: my practice. Women who are quote unquote doing all the
7:50
Speaker 2: right things, there's just something missing. And this is where
7:54
Speaker 2: you know, we knew how I said earlier, I said
7:56
Speaker 2: in our earlier episode that you know, I don't necessarily
8:00
Speaker 2: think all women need to track calories or track protein
8:04
Speaker 2: like that. You know, that's not something that I do
8:05
Speaker 2: a lot of counseling around. But if you are someone
8:09
Speaker 2: who feels you were doing all of the things and
8:12
Speaker 2: nothing's shifting, then you then you need to track. Actually,
8:17
Speaker 2: like like that is I think so like I think,
8:20
Speaker 2: you know, if someone who's I work with a couple
8:22
Speaker 2: of different sort of types of women, and and one
8:25
Speaker 2: type is one that seems to have dieted all of
8:28
Speaker 2: their lives, They've done all the things, and they've never
8:31
Speaker 2: really sort of been successful long term. But then I've
8:34
Speaker 2: also been I also deal with women who have been
8:37
Speaker 2: lean all of their lives and they've never had to
8:39
Speaker 2: exercise in a way to manipulate their body composition.
8:43
Speaker 3: It's just sort of naturally been you know, slim.
8:46
Speaker 2: So they've so they're healthy because of course we've always
8:50
Speaker 2: you know, I used I did sort of little quotation
8:53
Speaker 2: marks there because we've always, uh, we've always equated being
8:59
Speaker 2: slim with being healthy. It's not the case, but that's
9:01
Speaker 2: just how our mind operates. But then once they come
9:04
Speaker 2: into perimenopause, they don't necessarily gain weight, but their body
9:08
Speaker 2: composition does.
9:08
Speaker 3: Change, and they do, you know, they.
9:10
Speaker 2: Get a little bit leaner in the limbs because they
9:13
Speaker 2: lose muscle masks, they get a little bit rounder around
9:17
Speaker 2: in the middle, and they just don't feel in their bodies.
9:20
Speaker 2: And so for these two different women, like the first
9:25
Speaker 2: one I described, where they felt like they were doing
9:28
Speaker 2: everything right, like they could benefit from tracking to actually
9:32
Speaker 2: seeing what's going in because sometimes they are still overeating
9:36
Speaker 2: on calories even if they're good calories, or they're doing
9:40
Speaker 2: what Laura was talking about in our previous conversation, where
9:44
Speaker 2: they're starving themselves in the morning and then they're absolutely
9:48
Speaker 2: overshooting later on. So actually picking up those habits are
9:51
Speaker 2: really helpful.
9:54
Speaker 3: But then if you.
9:54
Speaker 2: Are a woman like the one I described, who has
9:57
Speaker 2: been lean all of her life and now now only
10:00
Speaker 2: struggling with body composition changes, they might not necessarily need
10:04
Speaker 2: to trade. They actually probably do need to just focus
10:08
Speaker 2: on upping the protein sources in their diet, and they've
10:12
Speaker 2: likely got appetite regulation cues already in place because they've
10:16
Speaker 2: been lean all of their lives, you know, and so
10:18
Speaker 2: they probably can regulate a lot better and may not
10:22
Speaker 2: necessarily need to track.
10:24
Speaker 1: Yes, And I love that you said it, and I
10:26
Speaker 1: love this that you had on your Instagram. I deserve
10:29
Speaker 1: to weigh less further work I'm putting it. Yeah, I
10:31
Speaker 1: mean how many times have you heard that? Like, guy,
10:33
Speaker 1: this all the time, Haley, I'm doing everything right. I'm
10:36
Speaker 1: doing everything right, and so it must be that my
10:40
Speaker 1: thyroid is.
10:40
Speaker 4: Low or it must be this.
10:42
Speaker 1: But ninety nine percent of the time, and this is
10:44
Speaker 1: a super hard conversation to have with someone when they're
10:49
Speaker 1: not getting results. Is they're like, well, maybe I'm not
10:51
Speaker 1: doing enough. Hit, maybe I'm not you know, my food
10:55
Speaker 1: timing is I'm like, no, no, no, no, take out
10:58
Speaker 1: all of that and let's look at the basics.
11:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, and very basics.
11:02
Speaker 1: So when someone says that to you, I've been putting
11:05
Speaker 1: all this work, like.
11:06
Speaker 4: Most of the time.
11:07
Speaker 1: Is it that they're eating too much or is it
11:10
Speaker 1: because the protein timing is off or they're not doing
11:13
Speaker 1: enough of the right cardio?
11:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's one hundred. It is that they're eating
11:19
Speaker 2: too many calories. Then their body is able to.
11:21
Speaker 3: Burn, you know.
11:22
Speaker 2: And I guess this is a good time to sort
11:25
Speaker 2: of just think about the other lifestyle factors that come
11:29
Speaker 2: into play that do change how your body burns calories too, right,
11:33
Speaker 2: like the lack of sleep, like the stress, like these
11:37
Speaker 2: do impact on our hormones and impact how your body
11:41
Speaker 2: utilizes carbs and fat, and it can mean that even
11:45
Speaker 2: if you are on lower calories, you can your body
11:51
Speaker 2: can sort of almost it'll take those calories and stare
11:55
Speaker 2: them rather.
11:56
Speaker 3: Than burn them.
11:57
Speaker 2: So, particularly women of our age group, stress and anxiety
12:03
Speaker 2: for a lot of women can sort of kick up
12:06
Speaker 2: quite a bit, and that will impact both how their
12:10
Speaker 2: body responds to the food that's going in, but also
12:12
Speaker 2: their behavior around food, you know, and in what they
12:16
Speaker 2: choose to eat. And so those are other difficult conversations.
12:20
Speaker 2: It's so much harder to talk to someone about stress,
12:23
Speaker 2: I feel, because you almost have to get them to
12:25
Speaker 2: examine these parts of their lives, which which they mean
12:30
Speaker 2: they have a hard conversation with the people around them,
12:33
Speaker 2: you know, whereas so much easier just to give them
12:35
Speaker 2: a diet plan. You know, that's what they want to
12:37
Speaker 2: tell me what to do, to tell me what to do,
12:39
Speaker 2: and I'll just blindly follow it, and you know, all
12:43
Speaker 2: is great.
12:45
Speaker 4: So let's talk about that. Because in the courses that
12:48
Speaker 4: I run.
12:49
Speaker 1: We have a clinical psychologist that has you know, her
12:52
Speaker 1: PhD and behavior change and most people, I'm going to
12:56
Speaker 1: tell you, I don't even think they listen to most
12:59
Speaker 1: of those episodes or they fast forward because they're like,
13:01
Speaker 1: this is the boring stuff. I want you to tell
13:03
Speaker 1: me what to eat, and I want you to tell
13:04
Speaker 1: me how to exercise, and this is the fun stuff.
13:06
Speaker 1: And I'm like, but if you don't change the habits
13:08
Speaker 1: and the behaviors, you're not changing anything. And I noticed
13:12
Speaker 1: that you said, if you're not losing weight, look at
13:14
Speaker 1: the snacking for someone that maybe doesn't want to track
13:19
Speaker 1: or literally like every time I always tell my groups
13:22
Speaker 1: when I go into a fat loss phase, which I
13:24
Speaker 1: haven't for a while. But I'm like, I would give
13:26
Speaker 1: myself a C minus. Like here I am running the
13:29
Speaker 1: course and like, I don't want to measure in ounces
13:32
Speaker 1: everything that I everything that E ate, but I can
13:35
Speaker 1: usually do it because I know what's in the food.
13:40
Speaker 1: I have the education because I have tracked at some
13:42
Speaker 1: point for education, but I also have changed some of
13:45
Speaker 1: those behaviors and habits around it to get success. So
13:49
Speaker 1: how important do you feel.
13:51
Speaker 4: Like that is?
13:52
Speaker 2: It's the thing, Hailey, It actually is the habits and behaviors.
13:56
Speaker 2: It's the food prip you know, it's the food planning,
14:00
Speaker 2: knowing what you're going to eat well in advance, if
14:03
Speaker 2: not a day in advance, like maybe several days in advance. Like,
14:07
Speaker 2: I think these are the things that are really important
14:09
Speaker 2: because you.
14:11
Speaker 3: Can't wing it out there. You know, you can.
14:13
Speaker 2: You can freestyle, like you can prep three different protein
14:18
Speaker 2: sources and two different salads and decide how you're going
14:20
Speaker 2: to have them throughout the week, But you can't wing
14:22
Speaker 2: it and expect to be successful because that environment isn't
14:25
Speaker 2: set up to allow for you to be successful. There
14:28
Speaker 2: is food everywhere, Like if you're starving and you're going
14:32
Speaker 2: into like I don't know, Walmart or something, and then
14:36
Speaker 2: I mean there's you know, food everyere, but there's even
14:38
Speaker 2: food and like closed stores like Forever New and I
14:40
Speaker 2: don't know what other closed stores you guys have, but
14:44
Speaker 2: then you know that yeah, there is no Yeah.
14:48
Speaker 1: If you make the USA, I mean I've been to
14:51
Speaker 1: New Zealand and I've been to Australia multiple times, and
14:54
Speaker 1: I'm like that there's not a McDonald's and a Burger
14:57
Speaker 1: King on every single corner. It's all in your face,
15:01
Speaker 1: and you walk into the Target or the Walmart and
15:03
Speaker 1: the whole bacter square aisle is complete junk food.
15:08
Speaker 2: Yes, one hundred percent. And the thing is, you do
15:12
Speaker 2: need to exert some discipline and will power, particularly at
15:16
Speaker 2: the beginning of a fat loss phase for example. But
15:19
Speaker 2: if you set your diet up right so you are
15:21
Speaker 2: hitting the protein that we're talking about, you're not overshooting carbohydrate,
15:25
Speaker 2: you're feeling satisfied with your meals, and you have actual
15:29
Speaker 2: defined rules around how you eat. That sounds very dogmatic,
15:34
Speaker 2: I completely appreciate that, but this is the discipline that
15:38
Speaker 2: you need to exert that allows you do not have
15:41
Speaker 2: to rely so much on willpower. You know, like when
15:45
Speaker 2: you're underfueling and under eating and training faster and then
15:50
Speaker 2: and then continuing that fast across the course of the morning,
15:53
Speaker 2: you're like, just like, you've got very little You've got
15:56
Speaker 2: a lot of discipline up until that point, but you've
15:58
Speaker 2: got very little willpower. It's like a muscle that we
16:02
Speaker 2: exert and you've used it all in that morning unnecessarily,
16:05
Speaker 2: So that sort of does you in. So the whole
16:08
Speaker 2: idea of no snacking, like you just make it, you
16:11
Speaker 2: just take it off the table, like you're just not
16:13
Speaker 2: a person who snacks, you know, breakfast, lunch, and dinner,
16:16
Speaker 2: and you make these rules and you stay by them,
16:18
Speaker 2: and I just think there's real freedom there because then
16:20
Speaker 2: you don't have to come into every opportunity to eat,
16:24
Speaker 2: Like then you have to make the decision do I snack,
16:26
Speaker 2: do I not snack? What do I have to eat?
16:28
Speaker 2: How much should I eat? You know, these are things
16:30
Speaker 2: which can really tie people in knots, and so often
16:35
Speaker 2: they get it wrong. Now, if you are someone who
16:37
Speaker 2: traps calories and you've accounted for these calories and you
16:40
Speaker 2: know how this is going to affect your overall energy
16:44
Speaker 2: budget by the end of that day or the week,
16:47
Speaker 2: by all means work in your snacks. But if you're
16:50
Speaker 2: not someone who's going down that road and you're just
16:53
Speaker 2: sort of basing it on sort of meals, then I
16:56
Speaker 2: feel like these rules are really important initially. And what
17:00
Speaker 2: I will also just say is that it is actually
17:03
Speaker 2: work to change your body composition and to also maintain that.
17:08
Speaker 2: So and that's not a bad thing, you know, like
17:10
Speaker 2: that really isn't to exert discipline in the space, isn't obsessive.
17:15
Speaker 2: It's not like you've got a problem.
17:17
Speaker 3: It's not.
17:20
Speaker 2: It's not all of these negative connotations that people often
17:23
Speaker 2: associate with looking after yourself, because it is actually just
17:26
Speaker 2: looking after yourself and your health in the long term.
17:29
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure why we expect that we should
17:30
Speaker 2: just be able to do it, because you just can't
17:32
Speaker 2: do it now. Environment we do have to work on it.
17:35
Speaker 2: And then just when you feel that it gets easy,
17:38
Speaker 2: it then gets hard again. So just expect it to
17:40
Speaker 2: get hard again, so you know that you have to
17:43
Speaker 2: continue to work on it, and just I don't know,
17:46
Speaker 2: just pack yourself on the back every single day that
17:48
Speaker 2: you've managed to achieve largely what you set out to achieve,
17:51
Speaker 2: and celebrate the fact that you are working towards your health.
17:54
Speaker 2: And I think people don't celebrate that enough either.
17:58
Speaker 4: That's such a good point that you said that.
18:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if we're looking I love that you say
18:04
Speaker 1: a good diet doesn't happen by accident, And for me,
18:08
Speaker 1: I feel like the preparation, yes, number one, but for
18:11
Speaker 1: those people that again, calorie tracking can work for some people.
18:14
Speaker 1: Some people need it and they love it, but then
18:17
Speaker 1: for others they're like it does my head in the
18:19
Speaker 1: second I think I'm going on a diet and I
18:20
Speaker 1: have to track.
18:21
Speaker 4: I like push back most of the time.
18:24
Speaker 1: If I'm just like, pay attention to your portion size
18:26
Speaker 1: and cut out snacking. You are not going to die
18:30
Speaker 1: by missing your two snacks in the day.
18:33
Speaker 3: Yes, No, totally. It's totally the same.
18:37
Speaker 2: And you know, and also I find it hilarious that
18:40
Speaker 2: people come into my program and I just started one
18:43
Speaker 2: actually this week, and so I've got several hundred people
18:46
Speaker 2: in there and we're talking, and I give all these
18:49
Speaker 2: emails going, I'm so excited to start this. Can I
18:52
Speaker 2: still eat this breakfast? And can I still do this?
18:55
Speaker 2: Want this thing? So we become so attached to our food.
18:58
Speaker 2: You know, so many people up for a plan but
19:00
Speaker 2: don't even really want to follow it. They sort of
19:02
Speaker 2: just want approval of what they're already doing, you know.
19:06
Speaker 2: Like I find that mentality really funny as well. And
19:10
Speaker 2: we change, right And I always say this to people
19:13
Speaker 2: as well, is that is that we have these narratives
19:16
Speaker 2: in our head of the type of person we are,
19:18
Speaker 2: the type of foods that we eat, the things that
19:20
Speaker 2: we do, And these are narratives that have just been
19:23
Speaker 2: ingrained for years, if not decades, but you can shift
19:27
Speaker 2: them and evidence builds confidence. So part of it is
19:31
Speaker 2: this is why the behavior change work that you do,
19:34
Speaker 2: Hailey is just so important. I wish more people understood that,
19:38
Speaker 2: because that is what they need to change. They need
19:41
Speaker 2: to change how they talk to themselves about their diet
19:45
Speaker 2: and their fatness and the exercise. They have to change
19:49
Speaker 2: how they view themselves, have to sort of almost change,
19:53
Speaker 2: like some of what they think they like and don't
19:56
Speaker 2: like and like.
19:57
Speaker 3: Tastes change as well.
20:00
Speaker 2: Like you, you know, you might think that you couldn't possibly
20:04
Speaker 2: give up your I don't know, like raspberry frappuccino or
20:07
Speaker 2: whatever it is, but go without for ten days and
20:10
Speaker 2: you'll find you'll just really love you know, the new
20:14
Speaker 2: eg white bites and is Americano whatever it is that
20:17
Speaker 2: you're changing to.
20:18
Speaker 1: You know, yes, and when you say you can, you
20:23
Speaker 1: can't eat your way to a better physique. So here
20:25
Speaker 1: we're saying or I think the nutrition is the biggest
20:28
Speaker 1: component most women can get to the gym.
20:30
Speaker 4: My job's easy, you know.
20:32
Speaker 1: I put out the strength program and it's like, well,
20:34
Speaker 1: just go and do it, and then this one overloads
20:36
Speaker 1: onto the next one, on to the next one. If
20:38
Speaker 1: you have intelligent programming, it's you know, it's it's hard
20:43
Speaker 1: to do. Good programming is hard to do. So there's
20:46
Speaker 1: a lot out there that are just all over the place.
20:49
Speaker 1: But the nutrition is what throws people off. So when
20:52
Speaker 1: you say you can't eat your way to a better physique,
20:56
Speaker 1: what does that mean.
20:57
Speaker 2: I mean it comes back to what we would discussing
21:00
Speaker 2: with well bone, but also like muscle, like muscle required
21:05
Speaker 2: to build muscle, you need to do strength training like
21:08
Speaker 2: you can't. Yes, you can lay down some lean tissue
21:11
Speaker 2: by increasing your protein, like we know that you can
21:14
Speaker 2: do that. So but ultimately the biggest driver of that
21:18
Speaker 2: physique change, which is what I think a lot of
21:20
Speaker 2: women want in terms of being more they call it toned,
21:24
Speaker 2: but it's actually building muscle, you know, like this this
21:28
Speaker 2: is the thing that they come to me for. But
21:30
Speaker 2: you need to do the training for that. Like the
21:32
Speaker 2: diet supports a good intelligent training program, And oftentimes with diet,
21:40
Speaker 2: if you're just relying on that calorie deficit, you just
21:44
Speaker 2: end up being a smaller version of yourself. You're not
21:48
Speaker 2: building your body, You're sort of you're just becoming a
21:50
Speaker 2: smaller version of yourself, which may or may not be
21:53
Speaker 2: a good thing. And for a lot of women who
21:54
Speaker 2: aren't engaging in strength training, it's not necessarily the best thing.
21:58
Speaker 2: But what I do feel is like a lot of
22:03
Speaker 2: women are quite intimidated by some of the messaging around
22:06
Speaker 2: exercise right now. You know, like we were talking about
22:10
Speaker 2: the zone two training. You know, like you shouldn't do this,
22:13
Speaker 2: you have to do this, you know all of the
22:15
Speaker 2: rules that are put around that. But as I understand
22:18
Speaker 2: it is that it's that progressive overload to failure. And
22:22
Speaker 2: you'll know way more than I do, I'm sure, Hayley,
22:25
Speaker 2: but you know, it's actually challenging the muscle is the
22:28
Speaker 2: main thing. It's not about having to do sets of
22:33
Speaker 2: repetitions that then place you at risk of injury.
22:36
Speaker 3: I'm not sure.
22:38
Speaker 1: Exactly I mean. And I definitely a preach using all
22:41
Speaker 1: wrap ranges because it's you can't stay in one rap
22:46
Speaker 1: range and keep getting even with varied trainings and overload methods.
22:51
Speaker 1: The body needs variety, but it needs intelligent a variety,
22:54
Speaker 1: and there's different purposes and different plans for each rep range.
22:59
Speaker 1: And my goal as more and more women are coming
23:03
Speaker 1: into the space is I don't want, you know, a
23:06
Speaker 1: whole generation of injured women that are out for nine
23:09
Speaker 1: months because they're like, well now I have these tendinopathies,
23:12
Speaker 1: or now I threw out my back and I can't
23:14
Speaker 1: do this. Usually it's well you did too much too soon,
23:17
Speaker 1: or you know you weren't ready for this, or your
23:19
Speaker 1: form is. I mean, there's a lot that goes into
23:22
Speaker 1: it that way, but there's I don't believe in any absolutes.
23:26
Speaker 4: There's there's one way.
23:27
Speaker 1: There's tools in a toolbox that have to be worked out.
23:31
Speaker 1: And I think that's the message that you're saying for
23:33
Speaker 1: women out there, like if this works for you, I'm
23:37
Speaker 1: never going to discredit you.
23:39
Speaker 4: Know that this works for you.
23:41
Speaker 1: If this works for someone else, provided that they're all
23:44
Speaker 1: under the umbrella of everything we've been talking about. Those
23:48
Speaker 1: are the important things that there isn't an exact approach.
23:53
Speaker 4: And I think that the.
23:54
Speaker 1: Women in this age, and you can say how you feel,
23:57
Speaker 1: but they come in almost desperate because they are thrown
24:01
Speaker 1: advertisements every day about what is the exact thing to do,
24:06
Speaker 1: and they're just like I'm freaking tired of like now
24:09
Speaker 1: this is it good?
24:10
Speaker 4: Now this is good. This is bad, you know, this
24:12
Speaker 4: is what I should be.
24:13
Speaker 1: This is why I'm not getting results when it's a
24:17
Speaker 1: time thing. I mean, do you ever see body compositions
24:21
Speaker 1: completely change in you know, a couple weeks.
24:25
Speaker 3: No, No, And I you know, people.
24:27
Speaker 2: Have just promised these these these results that are just
24:33
Speaker 2: what well, almost seemingly impossible, but absolutely unsustainable. And I
24:38
Speaker 2: think I feel like that's really important as well. And
24:40
Speaker 2: you know, we spend for a lot of women, they
24:42
Speaker 2: spend their thirties to mid forties gaining weight but not
24:46
Speaker 2: really not really noticing. You know, it's sort of easy
24:50
Speaker 2: to ignore. And I know some people won't understand this,
24:52
Speaker 2: but literally, someone can stand on the scales and be
24:55
Speaker 2: fifteen kilos thirty pounds heavier and not even really realize
24:59
Speaker 2: it because of you know, they haven't really paid attention,
25:02
Speaker 2: and things get a little bit tighty, just wear slightly
25:04
Speaker 2: different clothes, you start buying slightly different sizes, and then
25:07
Speaker 2: suddenly you were thirty pounds overweight and didn't even know it.
25:11
Speaker 2: But that happened over the course of you know, ten years,
25:15
Speaker 2: Whereas I don't think anyone should expect to be able
25:19
Speaker 2: to then in twelve weeks go back to where they
25:22
Speaker 2: were ten years ago. So you know, a healthy sort
25:27
Speaker 2: of rain, a healthy amount of weight to lose in
25:31
Speaker 2: a sustainable fashion might be anywhere from say point five
25:36
Speaker 2: to one percent of your body weight. Now we know
25:39
Speaker 2: that rapid fat loss does work, though, Like I think
25:42
Speaker 2: Bill Campbell, who I believe is an expert, and you know,
25:44
Speaker 2: he's done some great research.
25:46
Speaker 3: You know, you go in, you lose that you come
25:49
Speaker 3: out at short. It does the job.
25:52
Speaker 2: But I'm not sure how suitable that method is for
25:54
Speaker 2: a lot of people that I work with. But I mean,
25:57
Speaker 2: you know, it's good to know that it can happen.
25:59
Speaker 2: But I think people should look at their you know,
26:03
Speaker 2: we need to be patient and look at this as
26:06
Speaker 2: like a long term way of doing things, like a
26:10
Speaker 2: forever approach. And it's just it is like a very
26:14
Speaker 2: aversion of your forever diet and your forever exercise plan.
26:19
Speaker 3: But right now, the version that you might need to.
26:20
Speaker 2: Use is one that elicits a fat loss rather than
26:23
Speaker 2: one that just allows you to maintain a healthy physique
26:25
Speaker 2: and allow one to two years for that. Like I
26:29
Speaker 2: have women that when I started my group program, it
26:33
Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty one and they've done several of
26:35
Speaker 2: my plans, and they sort of come in and they
26:38
Speaker 2: lose like six or eight kilos, and then they maintain
26:41
Speaker 2: that weight for like six months, and then they join
26:44
Speaker 2: the group again because they love the community, but they
26:46
Speaker 2: also want to take the thinking out and they're ready
26:48
Speaker 2: to hit fat loss again. And this is how they
26:50
Speaker 2: use that approach.
26:51
Speaker 3: And I think that.
26:53
Speaker 2: If you are patient, you almost take off the pressure
26:57
Speaker 2: that you have to do it all in twelve weeks,
26:59
Speaker 2: you know, and it has to be done immediately, and
27:04
Speaker 2: this is such an important thing, which you know, we
27:06
Speaker 2: should almost relish this opportunity to to make these changes
27:13
Speaker 2: because the changes for our health and we deserve to
27:16
Speaker 2: feel good women doing it, and then also understand that
27:20
Speaker 2: it takes time.
27:22
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, I'm two important points. Number One, I love
27:26
Speaker 1: Bill Campbell. He's actually coming on to be a guest
27:29
Speaker 1: expert along with you for a Q and A. I mean,
27:33
Speaker 1: and he's just I think he said once and he's
27:35
Speaker 1: seriously the most humble, nicest guy, and he's like, I
27:38
Speaker 1: think I know more you know about fat loss than
27:42
Speaker 1: anyone else. And this is what I'm telling, like, this
27:44
Speaker 1: is what the science and this is all I've devoted my.
27:47
Speaker 4: Life to so it's so great.
27:49
Speaker 1: But I you know, I've had women come in that
27:52
Speaker 1: are like, well, I you know, I thought I was
27:55
Speaker 1: going to do a twelve book program and have arms
27:58
Speaker 1: like you, and I'm like, I'm my physique for five years,
28:02
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't just happen overnight. But to wrap it up,
28:06
Speaker 1: because I know we're out of time. I love your mindset.
28:10
Speaker 1: I love the habits that you teach women, and I
28:14
Speaker 1: love your kind of nobs approach where it's just like
28:18
Speaker 1: if the science changes, Mickey changes and it isn't afraid
28:23
Speaker 1: to change your mind based on that, and knowing that
28:26
Speaker 1: we have so much to learn about this peri and
28:28
Speaker 1: post menopause phase that in ten years, you know, our
28:32
Speaker 1: kids are going to be way more about it, like
28:35
Speaker 1: the better off than we were coming into this space.
28:37
Speaker 1: So that's such an important piece of it too. So
28:41
Speaker 1: I have so many more.
28:42
Speaker 4: Questions, But I thank you Mickey again for.
28:47
Speaker 1: Coming on and just for your personality and for the
28:50
Speaker 1: ability to really give us straight information that means so
28:56
Speaker 1: much to me. And I just appreciate everything that you're
28:58
Speaker 1: doing in the field.
29:00
Speaker 2: But well, thank you both, Like I really I loved,
29:02
Speaker 2: as you can tell, love talking about this, could talk
29:04
Speaker 2: about it all day, and these conversations I think are
29:07
Speaker 2: really important. So I'm just so thrilled to have the
29:09
Speaker 2: opportunity to come on your show and be able to
29:12
Speaker 2: have them and share them with a wider audience.
29:14
Speaker 3: So thank you so much.
29:17
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.
29:18
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
29:21
Speaker 1: five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.
29:26
Speaker 4: Until next time,