Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Roman Holiday featuring Costume Designer, Edith Head

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Roman Holiday featuring Costume Designer, Edith Head · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:11
Loses 1 stitch for the landlord, thinking she was a prostitute.
0:16
Onward. Daniel.
0:20
Elizabeth What? OK.
0:32
Good. Hello and welcome to the Art of
0:44
Costume podcast. I'm Elizabeth Joy Glass.
0:46
And I'm Spencer Williams. Elizabeth, so good to see you.
0:51
So good to see you too, it's been a minute.
0:54
It's been a minute. How was your trip to New
0:56
Orleans? You have that birthday glow.
0:59
Thank you. I am 30, flirty and thriving
1:03
now. It was so much fun.
1:09
Good. You know what, like people like
1:11
have the place they vacation like, oh, I don't know where to
1:14
go this year. We'll just go to that.
1:15
We'll just go back there like whatever.
1:18
I could see New Orleans being that place.
1:21
Like the first time we went, it was so quick.
1:24
Well, for you. Yeah, it was quick.
1:26
It was quick for me. I did not stay as long as the
1:29
rest of you. Like I didn't really get to know
1:31
the city, but I did this time and it was just like, it was
1:35
such just like a nice chill, like light, like fun place to be
1:41
like without trying. It's like you just walk around
1:44
and you're you're entertained. It's a beautiful place.
1:47
I, I really love it there. I mean, I'm so just fascinated
1:51
by the history, the architecture, the drinking, the
1:56
cemeteries. I mean, it's, it's, it's quite
1:59
the trip. I, I would love to go back
2:01
hopefully next year. If if you do make this a regular
2:04
vacation spot, then count me in, though I've never felt rested
2:08
after a vacation in New Orleans. I did, honestly I did, but I
2:14
also spent almost a week there. One of me be like a little too
2:17
hard on my birthday. That's fine.
2:21
And my sister, my sister took us to Frenchman Street to see this
2:26
brass band. They were very fun and they sang
2:29
happy birthday to me. So that was.
2:32
That was fun. My sister was like, I have great
2:35
videos of you and I'm like, can I see these videos?
2:38
She's yet to send them to me so I'm suspicious.
2:41
Elizabeth's sister theartofcostume@gmail.com You
2:46
know where to drop those videos. It's it's not like my family
2:49
haven't sent you things before. Exactly, that's what I'm saying.
2:53
I'm like, hey, listen to me. That's great.
2:55
I'm glad you're good. You had a good time.
2:57
You deserve it. I missed you.
2:59
It's been a long time. I know.
3:02
How have things been over in California land?
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Well, you know, we're wrapping up Emmys season here.
3:09
Voting has concluded at this point, which I am thrilled about
3:14
because this year was a doozy. It was a it was a lot of work.
3:18
But as always, I'm just very appreciative of everyone who
3:22
wanted to share their stories with us on the art of costume.
3:26
And to that point, I would like to officially say on the podcast
3:31
that we have released a brand new video podcast series is now
3:37
live and in the world that's called Costume Talk and the
3:42
first episode is out. I've would love you all to go
3:45
check it out on YouTube where you can actually see it.
3:48
It is a new series where we have costume designers have
3:53
conversations with each other. It's incredibly inspiring.
3:57
You get to learn so much about their creative processes by
4:01
asking each other questions. It's it's a lot of fun.
4:04
Our first episode was featuring Carlos Rosario from Shogun and
4:07
Christine WADA from Loki. And it was, I couldn't be more
4:12
proud and happy with it. It's it was we didn't have a lot
4:15
of time to get it together. No, I, I remember, I like, I'm
4:20
so excited for this. I'm so proud that you got this
4:23
together because I remember one week you were like, hey, I think
4:25
we should do this thing. And then last week you and
4:28
Daniel were like, it's done. And I was like, whoa.
4:31
Yeah, we have to give a huge shout out to our incredible
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audio engineer and editor Dan White, who just worked away
4:41
through the week every night on gain, this first pilot episode
4:46
out into the world. And it's it's done very well.
4:49
People seem to love it. So Daniel, thank you so much for
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doing that. Yeah, everyone go check it out.
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I'm really happy with it and I'm excited for future episodes of
4:57
that podcast. So make sure you tell us who you
5:00
would like to see on Costume Talk.
5:03
Which costume designers do you like to pair together?
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That's kind of my fun, fun aspect of it.
5:08
To me, it's just like fantasizing about all these
5:10
imaginary conversations. Who would like to see talk?
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Because we really do learn a lot between conversations of
5:17
industry professionals, you know, and I would love to have
5:21
on supervisors and illustrators, assistant costume designers,
5:25
costumers, shoppers, buyers, maybe some actors, directors,
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production designers. Yeah.
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So on and so forth. So, you know, lots of
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possibilities. Lots of possibilities.
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Do you know where else? There was lots of possibilities,
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Spencer. Rome.
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Rome, everybody. This week, despite what we
5:53
previously said, we watched Roman Holiday.
6:01
That's so true. I totally didn't think about
6:03
that. So we said we were going to do
6:04
Funny Face, but we had a change of mind and it's our podcast.
6:10
We do whatever we want. Yeah.
6:15
No. So we're capping off Hot Girl
6:17
Summer and I don't know, we just had a change of heart.
6:21
We just, we were kind of indecisive.
6:24
And I think, now that I've seen it, I think this is a great
6:28
finale to Hot Girl Summer. I agree it's Aubrey Hepburn's
6:34
first film ever and it is one of the amazing works of Edith Head.
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So I, I think it was, this is a good introductory to Edith Head
6:49
on our, on our podcast, I think. It's insane that we've actually
6:55
never talked about Edith Head on this podcast.
6:57
It feels, well I should say like I always say, that my big blind
7:02
spot is like classic Hollywood movies.
7:05
I don't think we've done a film before the 1970s before now.
7:11
Yeah, I don't. I probably.
7:13
Star Wars is as far as it goes back, honestly.
7:16
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think, I think that's probably a safe.
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That's probably safe. And that is like that rings true
7:22
in like my actual everyday life. I just feel like I don't watch
7:26
classic Hollywood movies so much.
7:28
But I've obviously heard so much about Roman Holiday and it was
7:32
really good. Elizabeth and I don't like I
7:35
don't like ROM coms. We know that I've said that a
7:38
lot on this podcast, but I don't know something about like this
7:43
classic romance story. It's just done in such a classy
7:46
way. Like everything about this
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period is just so much classier. It's not, you know, I, I, I've,
7:52
I was in it. I was totally like, I was blown
7:56
away. I agree.
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And it was it was definitely not what I was expecting.
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But before we get too far into it, Spencer, do you want to give
8:04
us a little summary? I shall.
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Overwhelmed by her suffocating schedule, touring European
8:12
Princess Anne takes off for a night while in Rome when a
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sedative she took from her doctor kicks in.
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She falls asleep on a park bench and is found by an American
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reporter, Joe Bradley, who takes her back to his apartment.
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For safety, obviously. At work the next Morning Joe
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finds out Anne's regal identity and bets as editor he can get
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exclusive interview with her. But romance soon gets in the way
8:38
and that is Roman Holiday. That is Roman Holiday.
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Haven't seen it. Go watch it.
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This. It was like the Theodore she's
8:48
given the sedative. I'm like, wow, people just
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really did whatever their doctor said at one point.
8:54
Totally. You just find yourself in the
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streets muttering. I'm happy.
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I'm, yeah, happy for like, a long time.
9:02
Whoa. Yeah, that, man, I'll take that.
9:07
Can, like, someone put me to sleep, but also like, don't just
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show up in my room after I'm just having a very
9:12
understandable breakdown and be like, yeah, we'll just sedate
9:15
you. Yeah, that was a real breakdown.
9:18
But before you dive too deep, maybe you should break down the
9:21
costumes. Absolutely.
9:23
Let's go behind the costumes with director William Wyler and
9:28
costume designer Edith Head. And if you are into costumes,
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chances are you have heard of Edith Head before.
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Her career was wild and is just crazy what she got to do and how
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she was really like a celebrity costume designer of her time.
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It was. She was remarkable.
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She laid down the groundwork. She did.
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She really did. So here's a quick biography of
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Edith Head. Her 58 year career began in 1923
10:12
when she was a French and art teacher, shapering a field trip
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to the Players Lasky Studio, which later became Paramount.
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There she decided to become a studio sketch artist to make
10:26
money during her summers off. However, her work caught the eye
10:30
of costume designer Howard Greer, who mentored her along
10:34
with costume designer Travis Banton.
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When Banton was made chief designer at Paramount, Edith was
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made his assistant. In 1938, she became the chief
10:46
costume designer at Paramount. However, she did not receive a
10:49
raise of. Course.
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Why would you? The deep rooted issues start
10:55
here. Right, right.
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And then in 1967, she went to Universal Studios, where she
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lived and worked until her death in 1981.
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Her last film, which she completed two weeks before her
11:11
death, was Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid, starring Steve Martin,
11:17
who's quoted in her autobiography Saying.
11:20
I loved the clothes so much that I bought some of her wonderful
11:25
linen suits for my personal wardrobe.
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When people ask about them, I say it's an Edith Head.
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That's so sweet, but. I think that's just like such a
11:37
sweet way to like talk about someone's work and career cuz
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like he's giving her credit as an artist, not just a costume
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designer, an actual artist. Cuz you say like, oh, it's a
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Monet, it's an Edith Head. That's what he had on.
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Yeah. And when it comes to her notable
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work, there's just too much. So I'm just going to tell you
12:01
her eight wins of her 35 Oscar nominations and then a couple,
12:07
then a couple of her notable Oscar nominations. 35
12:12
nominations. Yes.
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Gosh. And in 1950, she won her first
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Oscar for Best Costume Design for a black and white Film for
12:27
The Heiress. This was before the categories
12:30
were split. I mean, before they're combined,
12:33
there was a black and white category and that covet
12:35
category. Now we break them down by, you
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know, period and type of film they're in, not whether or not
12:45
they're in color. Right.
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In 1951, Edith Head won two Oscars.
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One she won Best Costume Design for a Color Film for Samson and
13:00
Delilah. And then she also won Best
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Costume Design for a Black and White Film for All About Eve.
13:07
And All All except her very last win.
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They're all for black and white films.
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So in 1952, she won for A Place in the Sun.
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In 1955 she won for Sabrina, in 1961 she won for The Facts of
13:25
Life, and in 1974 she won for The Sting.
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And that was just a general best costume design.
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So I think by this point there was no more black and white and
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color categories. Some of her other notable
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nominations are To Catch a Thief in 1965, The 10 Commandments in
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1957, and Funny Face in 1958. All of our facts today are going
13:56
to come from Edith Head's autobiography, Edith Head's
14:00
Hollywood, which I have started reading.
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But it is a long, it is long. It is.
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I mean there are a lot of pictures, but it's it's still
14:09
pretty long. It was completed and Co written
14:14
by Patty Calastro with a foreword by Betty Davis.
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Wow, OK, I gotta get me this book.
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I started reading it. It's a it's really interesting.
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It really just makes how people operated in that time in the
14:33
studio system kind of makes sense.
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And then also where a lot of just even like our fashion
14:40
obsession around body image, it makes a lot where all that came
14:44
from. It makes it make a lot of sense
14:47
just because how she talked about, you know, her job and
14:51
like the actress and actresses she worked with is I think very
14:54
different from how anyone would talk now.
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So it's really interesting. And she goes, it's Paddy
15:02
Calastro is is interviewing her through the book.
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So it's just like paragraph after paragraph of her, like
15:09
reminiscences. So it's really interesting.
15:13
And in her autobiography, she talks about meeting Audrey
15:17
Hepburn for the first time, because Roman Holiday was
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Audrey's very first film. So she was excited to meet her.
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And she said I was completely enchanted by her.
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She was intelligent and she had a strong sense about fashion.
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I knew she would be the perfect mannequin for anything I would
15:36
make. When clothes are designed for
15:38
art's sake, you need a shapeless body to display them.
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I knew it would be a great temptation to design clothes
15:45
that would overpower her, the actress.
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I could have used her to show off my talents and detract from
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hers, but I didn't. I consider doing it.
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Believe me. I'm like, that's, that's wild to
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be like, should I just, should I just show off?
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This is the perfect person for me to show off.
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No, I won't. I.
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Mean, it's true. I mean, Audrey Hepburn could
16:12
wear anything and make it look incredible.
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Yeah. And this, this film is great
16:17
proof to it. I mean, just Yeah.
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Even when she's like in bed wearing her like PJS or like
16:22
just like a random shirt that she took from Joe Bradley, it's
16:26
like she wakes up and you're like, good Lord.
16:28
Like she looks just beautiful. Yeah.
16:32
I mean, granted, she's wearing like a full face of makeup in
16:35
the morning, but that's neither here nor there.
16:37
Would that's yeah. But Spencer, I have a little
16:42
show and tell for you. Do you want to watch a a short
16:46
interview with Edith Head? I would absolutely love to, This
16:50
is very exciting. Yes, this is a quick little
16:54
interview. It was after she had been
16:56
nominated and hopefully I don't know if we can put the audio in,
17:03
but if not we will put the link in the bio for this show.
17:09
Anna Mae Wilson looks at us Have a WNHCTV in New Haven As for it
17:15
see right. I constantly marvel at the way
17:17
motion pictures can completely transform an actress's
17:20
appearance on the screen through a selection of wardrobe.
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Is it possible to have a studio designer explain that?
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Well, Anna Mae, Yes. One of those amazing
17:29
transformations for which Hollywood is famous was recently
17:32
completed for this delightful little actress Audrey Hepburn to
17:37
achieve stardom overnight due to her starring role in Paramount's
17:40
Roman Holiday. Now it all started right here in
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the office of Edith Head. She is a costume designer for
17:47
Paramount and Miss Head is out of my class here to ask about
17:51
ladies wardrobes or know anything about it.
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But you being a four time Academy Award winner can kind of
17:56
set us straight, huh? Well, time, Mr. Baker.
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Well the question is here, how do you go about changing
18:01
actresses appearances just to wardrobe?
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The first thing I do is to get acquainted with the actress,
18:07
actually study her. Now, in the case of Audrey
18:10
Hepburn, she was in Europe at that time on stage, so it was
18:14
necessary for us to film what we call a personality test.
18:18
In other words, we wanted to see how she could move, how she
18:21
could walk and generally how she looked on the screen.
18:24
Would you like to see the result?
18:25
Yes, indeed we would. Now this is an actual test.
18:28
This was made in England, flown to me here in Hollywood.
18:32
It was my first acquaintance with Audrey Hepburn, and as
18:35
you'll see, it's pretty successful.
18:39
All right. I wander down here without your
18:41
hands in your pockets and settle down in that chair and we'll
18:44
make a nice close up of you. But did you entertain the people
18:48
there yourself? Is that how you began?
18:51
No, not, Not quite how I began. I went to ballet school once.
18:56
I knew I was settled there for quite a while.
18:59
I didn't know how long the war was going to last, so I went to
19:01
the ballet school and learned to dance.
19:04
And then about 1944, about a year before the end of the war,
19:10
I was quite capable of performing.
19:13
What a delightful girl she is and that personality has so much
19:17
better than still pictures. They like meeting her face to
19:20
face of. Course they are.
19:21
And you know, it was from that test that I was able to design
19:24
these costumes. Then after making these
19:27
costumes, I flew to the yard. I actually met Miss Hepburn and
19:30
made this ward of tip. This is the first time that you
19:36
see Miss Hepburn on the screen in a test testing in the costume
19:40
for a Roman holiday. You see, she is supposed to be a
19:43
Princess disguised as an ordinary girl on the streets of
19:46
Rome. So we made her a simple costume
19:48
so she wouldn't look different. And you know why she's rolling
19:51
up her sleeves and all of these things?
19:53
It's because in the picture she had to look casual, informal,
19:56
and we felt due to the heat of Roman Summit, a girl would
19:59
really do this sort of thing. Now watch and see what she does
20:03
now, because this is what we call demonstrating through a
20:06
test what is going to happen in a picture.
20:08
It helps the director and it helps an actress.
20:10
You see she's whirling around because in the picture she has
20:13
to ride a motorcycle. See, it proves it.
20:22
That's. Part of the story too.
20:24
Now this is a a transformation. As the Princess, you see, we
20:28
don't do any tricks or give her a crown, but we give her a regal
20:31
dress, a simple dress of real lace.
20:33
In other words, the type dress that a real Princess would wear
20:37
under similar circumstances, in a similar locale.
20:41
This is what we call transformation through wardrobe.
20:45
Real regal. That's real laced.
20:46
It really is lace and the Princess could have worn this
20:48
dress and Audrey wears this dress in the picture.
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It accomplishes that regal feeling.
21:06
There Now here is an even more regal costume.
21:08
This is one of the princess's ball gowns.
21:10
For the opening of the film. We had two costumes from which
21:14
to choose, and we took this one of silver brocade because it was
21:17
a little more photographic, a little gayer.
21:20
Now you notice what she's going to do.
21:21
Now she is turning around in the picture because the producer,
21:25
William Wyler, said it's too long.
21:27
She can't possibly dance. Now Audrey, who is an
21:29
accomplished dancer, says just watch me.
21:31
And that is why she did it in the test and she wears it in the
21:34
picture. Does that answer your question?
21:48
Oh, so much more delightful than we expected, indeed.
21:52
Well, Roman Holiday, your work in that you must be
21:54
congratulated. I kind of see another Academy
21:57
Award coming. Well, I'm more certain that the
22:00
picture itself will win an Academy Award, because Mr.
22:02
Wyler's direction was marvelous. He always has good ones there.
22:05
Everyone's talking about this Audrey Hepburn.
22:08
I can see why, too. And of course, you had Gregory
22:10
Peck and Eddie Albert. They're outstanding.
22:13
I must say that having seen the picture, there's one of the
22:15
recent ones that I look at people and say Roman Holiday,
22:18
you've got to see. Thank you very much indeed for
22:21
answering this request. But a great pleasure, Mr. Baker.
22:26
Wow, that isn't that. Cool.
22:28
So cool that that was a great video.
22:32
That was courtesy of the Academy of Motion Pictures.
22:35
And that was such a great. I mean, I feel like we could end
22:38
the episode now. Right I.
22:41
Really got the hair was staying up on my arm from hearing and
22:44
seeing Edith Head talk about these costumes and walking
22:48
through the screen test that was that was one of my favorite
22:50
moments on this podcast in a hot minute.
22:53
Honestly, I saw this and I was like, I have to show Spencer.
22:57
I almost sent it to you and then I was like, no, I'll just put it
22:59
in the slide. No, that was fun.
23:01
Thank you. That was a great surprise.
23:03
I really enjoyed that. That was just hearing the way
23:06
she talks about and like, it was like we were watching like the
23:09
first ever, like Hollywood fitting or something.
23:11
You know, like just the way she was like having Audrey Hepburn
23:15
dance on camera. But then, like, my favorite part
23:17
was when she was taking off, you know, she's rolling up her
23:20
sleeves and spinning her skirt around, putting on like the the
23:25
wrap around her neck. It was just, yeah, it was really
23:28
incredible. That was so cool.
23:29
Yeah, getting to getting to watch her, like, play in the
23:32
costumes before they're like official, like on screen is so
23:38
cool. That was a treat for sure.
23:41
And after that, we got to take a little break.
23:46
Yeah, let's reset. I need to go gas up my moped and
23:53
get ready to speed around the streets of Rome.
24:22
All right, Elizabeth, I am so excited to talk about Roman
24:25
Holiday. I really enjoy this movie and
24:27
there's a lot of great costumes in it.
24:30
So I think we should start with at the beginning, when we really
24:33
get to see the Princess and her real royal glamour.
24:38
And yeah, I already knew as soon as we saw this, I was like, all
24:41
right, I see why Elizabeth picked this one.
24:44
That's gonna be a good one. It is a great one and it's so
24:49
fun to after watching like her screen test in this to actually
24:53
see it in the movie and like just how much costume plays a
24:58
role in this when she's like you lost her shoe and it's like.
25:05
It's going to happen. I was like, stop messing around
25:07
with it, girl. You're going to lose it, right?
25:10
I was like you're a Princess you should know better.
25:12
You don't take your shoes off till you're at home.
25:15
Like sitting on your bed in your PJS.
25:18
Then you take your heels. Off.
25:23
But he just said about this costume.
25:26
First time she appears on screen, she is regally dressed
25:31
in a brocade gown with correct jewels, correct orders, even
25:37
correct gloves. She is the epitome of royal
25:40
protocol. Everything about her is
25:43
flawless. In true Hollywood form, she
25:47
hates her state of affairs and wants to be free.
25:52
Which is so clear you could tell that she's just like, bugging to
25:55
get out of here. That's why she's like.
25:56
Yes. Like twirling around with her
25:59
shoes and you could just tell she's uncomfortable, really
26:01
wants to go. And it just it did feel like
26:04
very like, oh, this is correct Regal form.
26:06
Like she prayed, you know she this is like her uniform.
26:11
It is so correct. She can't even just like reach
26:14
over and grab her shoe real quick.
26:17
They have to like make a whole like distraction so nobody
26:21
notices her shoe fell. Right.
26:24
It was such a beautiful dress and I loved, I mean, every
26:28
little piece of it. The jewelry, the tiara, she's
26:32
wearing, the sash, but then there's also the little bows on
26:35
it because she's, you know, the Princess.
26:37
So she's still kind of cutesy, so it has a little bit of flair
26:41
to it. I think those are her orders,
26:44
her different royal stations. Right.
26:49
Whatever, It's still cute. It is still cute cute.
26:52
Placement. But in the video that Elizabeth
26:55
played earlier, if you're all just watch listening and didn't
26:59
get to see the video, Edith Head said essentially that there was
27:03
this white a gown that makes into the film or there was this
27:07
like darker, which it looked like it could have been a black
27:09
gown. And I'm so glad that she went
27:12
with this white gown because not only did it, it just came off
27:15
better on picture. With this being a black and
27:18
white film, it just you really got to see the details, unlike
27:21
that black dress where it really kind of blended together.
27:24
That first one looks like a like, maybe like a like some
27:28
sort of velvet. This one, she says it's silver
27:31
though, which I'm like, I think that's how they get like the
27:34
variation of Gray tone in it, which I think is really
27:39
interesting, especially cuz like people have like gone on and
27:44
like recolored like this dress like in still photos.
27:50
And it's like no one actually makes it silver, Which I think
27:53
that just shows how you kind of like your imagination can just
27:57
kind of like go wild with the black and white film, which I
27:59
don't watch a lot of black and white films.
28:02
I honestly couldn't tell you the last one I watched, but it's
28:06
like you're just kind of like imagining what you think would
28:11
be best. And I'm like, she looks like a
28:13
Disney Princess to the in this to me.
28:15
So I'm like, oh, like pretty white gown just dancing around.
28:20
OK. Oh, Audrey Hepburn is gorgeous
28:23
in this. It's like, shocking.
28:25
It's so gorgeous. So gorgeous but it is also super
28:31
funny how she has this like weird obsession with sleepwear.
28:36
Oh yeah. In the movie.
28:39
And like, honestly, if I had to wear it that kind of nightgown
28:42
every night, I might too. Oh yeah, this is her way of
28:46
going home and changing into stretchy pants essentially,
28:48
which is what I do Like she has a full on nightgown still kind
28:54
of like a full face of makeup. They try to make it a little bit
28:57
more soft, but still she just. Yeah, I honestly, I could see
29:01
you wearing these little nightgowns.
29:03
Honestly, yeah. If people made nice nightgowns,
29:09
yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe. Yeah, it's so cute.
29:13
But yeah, that scene where they're like harassing her when
29:15
she's in bed, like just leave this girl alone.
29:19
It just makes me crazy. I don't know, just royal
29:22
treatment. It's it's been going back
29:24
forever. It's so crazy and the way that
29:27
she's just like, because she's clearly she's like in her late
29:30
teens, early 20s. And.
29:33
She just has a little bit of a meltdown, like no big deal, we
29:37
all do it after a long work day. It's a pretty wild meltdown
29:42
though. She but.
29:44
She's been on like a several week work trip.
29:47
Oh yeah. Where like 24/7 she her life is
29:51
just work. Like you would have a pretty
29:53
epic meltdown. And they start upset.
29:56
Of that. Sedate her.
29:58
They they were ready to put her down, which is like crazy.
30:02
I'm like, or how about like some melatonin or like right, maybe a
30:08
bedtime story. I also.
30:09
Love how he was like this is a new drug, completely safe and
30:13
she just wanders the fuck off. She totally sneaks out and
30:20
sleeps at a random stranger man's house.
30:23
Yeah, I want whatever she's having.
30:26
Yeah, I also love how like he gave her pyjamas, which is
30:32
totally like such a like plot device for her to have the
30:35
pyjamas she wants to sleep in. Because I was like, I'm sorry.
30:41
Like if I even if I brought in some random girl off the street
30:46
to sleep in my home, I would not offer her any clothing.
30:50
Well, Elizabeth, this is all a set up because that is the first
30:56
a real ploy. And two, a very different sort
30:59
of evening. True, this man is setting up.
31:03
He even says it toward the end. He's like, he says something
31:06
like, oh, I'm wearing your clothes or whatever.
31:08
And he said like, oh, you look good in my clothes or you should
31:10
always, you should always wear my clothes, is what he says.
31:14
And I was like, all right in my last.
31:16
Scene. Absolutely.
31:18
But it's just a one big long ploy to get her in his clothes.
31:22
So it's it's a. Setup doesn't work out for him
31:26
in the end, but. I'm holding my tongue.
31:30
We'll talk about that. Some bullshit, but yeah, PJ game
31:36
on fleek Edith Head, you killed it.
31:39
Yes, especially with the two robes she wears at the end, like
31:44
the his robe, which I was like, that's a nice robe.
31:50
I want that robe. Then I couldn't get a picture of
31:54
it. But the robe she wears when
31:57
she's telling off all her her handlers, when she's like go,
32:03
go, no, yeah, I'm in charge now. It's like a black velvet with
32:10
like a Bishop sleeve and I'm like, yes girl.
32:13
Yes, she got her power back. But we have some other
32:19
characters. Even though it feels like Audrey
32:22
Hepburn's Princess Anne is the only character in this, there
32:26
are some other ones. I don't know.
32:29
I well, so we're talking about Eddie Albert as Irving and
32:34
Gregory Peck as Joe Bradley. I thought Gregory Peck was so
32:40
wonderful in this film. Elizabeth and I started to talk
32:43
about this behind the scenes. She's using words like fine or
32:47
he's OK. I thought he was great.
32:50
I, I, you know, I'm obsessed with Oscars and the Oscars
32:54
history. So look back.
32:56
Audrey Hepburn not only was nominated, but I believe she won
33:00
for this role. She did Eddie Albert, who was
33:04
the weird best friend slash photographer.
33:08
He was nominated for this role. He was fun.
33:10
Nothing for Gregory Peck that that just kind of boggles my
33:15
mind. But it was nominated in
33:16
literally every other category, including Best Picture.
33:21
He's a leading man, he plays a leading man.
33:26
I thought he was so charming. Like he was.
33:30
A lot of the leading men back then were.
33:33
Yeah. All right.
33:34
Well. Who was he, who, who, who else
33:37
was nominated that year? Maybe that would explain it.
33:40
Well, I do know one of them's Marlon Brando.
33:42
I don't know who won so, but still, it's Gregory Peck.
33:46
I mean, he's such a big name, but whatever he was.
33:49
Good, he was good, he was fine. I thought his costumes are
33:52
spectacular. I thought he always looked.
33:55
He always looked good. He always looked good, always
33:58
looked sophisticated. He also looked American to me
34:01
because he's the American journalist, which I thought was,
34:05
you know, they obviously we know that, you know, Rome known for
34:09
like incredible style. I think I'd be stressed out just
34:14
getting dressed up to travel over to Rome at this point.
34:18
And so you could really tell the difference between all the
34:20
background characters. And then Joe Bradley, he's not
34:23
that, he's not stylish, but you could just tell there's.
34:25
American. He's American.
34:28
He's got his. Suit and tie.
34:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I, I thought, I thought
34:35
he, all of his costumes are just quite sophisticated, always
34:39
wearing a suit, always like looking put together.
34:42
So I really appreciate that. Yeah, I also, I also, I really
34:46
like Irving's costume because it's just like such like like
34:49
1950s quintessential like artist who's kind of on the fringe but
34:54
still has to make money. So like, yeah, he takes photos
34:58
for the press, but then he takes his, like, fun, clearly, like,
35:04
sexy pictures in his home, Yeah. Yeah, he has.
35:07
He has like a little bit of a flare tone too.
35:09
Like I feel like his pants are kind of like a little bit
35:12
higher. He's yeah, his sleeves are a bit
35:15
more rolled up. Like this is a guy too.
35:16
T-shirt the whole time. Yeah, he just, he almost like
35:20
he, it's not fitting in a sense that like he moves around taking
35:25
photos and he goes on to the next assignment, so.
35:28
He has more of like that like beatnik look of the time than
35:32
like a professional who is also not looking very professional
35:39
Princess and has a transformation.
35:42
I loved it. It is so good, and Edith talks
35:46
about it in her autobiography, saying to create the contrast I
35:51
put her in funny little flat shoes, a gathered cotton skirt
35:56
and a plain blouse with the sleeves rolled up, her regal
36:01
crown of hair chopped off. Suddenly she is the kind of girl
36:06
you wouldn't look at twice. It sounds easy to do, but it
36:10
wasn't. Try trying to make someone like
36:14
Audrey Hepburn look anything but.
36:17
She is very difficult. Yeah, which, yeah, all respect
36:22
to Edith Head, I'm like, not sure if we achieved that because
36:25
she still looks incredible. I'm like, this is the most not
36:30
chic you can get and I think in a Hollywood film.
36:33
Yeah, I guess that's a reach, but OK.
36:38
It's a reach, and she talks about it a little bit more with
36:42
what she did with the costume, saying I had to adjust the
36:46
length of the skirt, for instance, making it too long so
36:50
that she looked somewhat dowdy. I used fabric that was limp to
36:56
create the impression that she didn't care what she wore, which
37:01
I like. If this is someone not caring
37:02
what they wore, could we get back to?
37:05
This God I know. Seriously, I would not do well,
37:09
I guess. As much as I like my yoga pants
37:13
and my T-shirts, like I wish this was casual wear.
37:18
Oh, yeah, I mean, let's, let's get into this costume.
37:21
It's beautiful. She has the sleeves rolled up,
37:23
which is her way of trying to be like, oh, I'm an everyday girl
37:27
just walking around Rome. My sleeves are rolled up getting
37:31
to work. Yeah, Rome is hot.
37:33
And it's like it's this long it it's very starts out.
37:36
She looks kind of like schoolgirlish, like all buttoned
37:40
up. And then she's like, I'm hot.
37:42
Let me like roll this up, open up the the neckline and she's
37:47
just like out to have her fun day.
37:50
But with the flowy skirt though, and I love to tie around the
37:55
neck, that's just to me just like makes her, it kind of gives
37:58
her like a sense of adventure, which really what Roman Holiday
38:02
is. It's like an adventure story
38:04
actually, of her exploring a city, writing mopeds, you know,
38:08
dancing, getting into fights, smoking a cigarette, which was
38:12
like the big, like we're smoking her first cigarette.
38:16
It's just like she feels like an adventurer and I love that.
38:19
And it's like her, it's her first day of real freedom and
38:23
she's taking it for all that she can.
38:26
Yeah, it's, it's really, really cool.
38:30
Let's head over to our Royal Court.
38:32
Yes to our final look, because while this has a bunch of good
38:37
like every look in this hits, but there aren't many of them.
38:43
No. This is the shortest episode
38:45
we've had in a while. Her, Yeah, her courtly look and
38:52
of the whole film. Edith Head has this really good
38:55
quote from her autobiography saying the costuming was very
39:00
important in this film. It told the story First she was
39:04
a fairy tale Princess, then she became a sporty, wild, happy,
39:09
very real person who had no regard for her appearance.
39:14
And I feel like this last look kind of like combines those two
39:21
because like, yes, it is very regal.
39:24
It is beautiful. And like in the short video from
39:28
before, when she says like, oh, this is a look you would see on
39:32
any Princess, like, of our time. It's like, yeah, I could totally
39:36
see like, Princess Margaret having worn something like this
39:40
at the time. But it's like, unlike before,
39:44
she's got the open neckline. She's got her.
39:48
Her sleeves only come down to her elbows and like the hat,
39:53
completely complements her new look, like she is like owning
39:59
who she is in this moment and it is perfect.
40:02
Yeah, it's a really cool costume.
40:05
I love the floral lace of it all.
40:08
I just think it's. Beautiful.
40:11
Beautiful, very stunning. Just you could tell that this
40:15
was just like so rich and expensive and it just like
40:19
really just talks to like the quality of this era and Edith
40:23
Head, like you. Just they don't just they don't
40:25
make them like these anymore. But I love the hat that she's
40:30
wearing. I actually is this considered a
40:32
hat? I've never seen this before.
40:35
To me, it actually feels a little science fiction, like it
40:39
looks so cool and edgy, which kind of like gets to your point
40:43
of like as blending together. These worlds are like very
40:46
regal, but also like very kind of wild and sporty.
40:49
So this hat to me feels a little bit like that's what blends the
40:52
two worlds together. I think it would be considered a
40:56
hat. And like the 1950s and 60s, they
40:58
were like going hard with the hats.
41:01
They like, had all sorts of crazy things going on.
41:05
Yeah. But I I guess it could also be
41:06
considered a fascinator. It just seems a little bit big
41:09
for that. Yeah.
41:11
That's like, that's the piece of this look that makes it so
41:15
beautiful. Also, you were talking about,
41:17
like, how like, expensive and, like, beautifully made it looks.
41:21
This is probably not long after the rationing on silks and
41:28
other, like, expensive fabrics was lifted from World War 2.
41:33
And they were talking about it a little bit while I was reading
41:37
in her autobiography. Like that was one of the ways
41:40
she made a name for herself, was using these materials that had
41:44
been rationed for years and years and years because of World
41:47
War 2, using them to their fullest extent however she could
41:53
imagine. Well, I mean it's a it's a great
41:56
finale costume and since we're at the finale I just have to say
42:01
what the fuck? I can't believe they did not get
42:04
together in the end. And he just has to go about his
42:07
life like he did just have like 2 incredible days with Prince
42:12
with the Princess. It just I was like my mind was
42:15
blown. I cannot believe that it didn't
42:17
end in like this fairy tale romance.
42:19
I could, I could. And I think that the ending is
42:22
part of what made it so good, because, yeah, that's exactly
42:26
what would happen. Yeah, it's believable.
42:29
He could not marry because they at the beginning, in that cool
42:32
little like paramount news reel they do at the beginning, they
42:37
mention that she is not just the Princess, but she is the heir to
42:41
the throne of her country. So she a 1950 she could not
42:48
marry whoever she wanted. It would have had it been
42:50
approved by her dad and her dad's not approving of a
42:54
American. Which we all know how this story
42:58
played out in real life if you want to, like, look at the
43:01
tragedy of Princess Margaret and who she ended up, you know,
43:05
wanting to marry and whatnot. So yeah, Yeah.
43:08
No, I I got it. It's just I was like, hey, you
43:11
know, this is not what I signed up for.
43:15
It was fun, I liked it, and Edith had got her 5th Oscar for
43:21
this film. I have the 1954 Oscars footage
43:28
here if you would like to watch it.
43:31
I will say though, they didn't give the designers any time to
43:34
give speeches. But.
43:37
The way they present them is really, really fun.
43:40
Do you want to watch? I do.
43:41
I'll take what I could get. All right.
43:45
For achievement in costume design for production in black
43:50
and white, Edith Head for Roman Holiday.
44:02
That was so fun. That was fun.
44:04
Isn't that so funny? Just here's your Oscar.
44:06
I go now. Yeah, I mean, I think I had more
44:09
time when I got like my high school diploma.
44:11
I got the stamper and wave at everyone and everyone applauded,
44:15
you know, yeah, that that was so much fun.
44:19
She looks so good. Accepting she does, accepting
44:22
her award. I'll put in air quotes but.
44:26
Just being handed an Oscar and told to go.
44:28
Yeah, beat it, costume designer. That still rings true today,
44:32
sadly, Yeah. But anyways, Roman Holiday, what
44:37
a great film. Elizabeth, I'm so glad we
44:39
watched this. I'm so glad we finally got into
44:41
our first classic Hollywood black and white film.
44:45
Honestly, I want to do more. I think next season we go again
44:48
to some more. We'll, we'll do some more, don't
44:51
worry, We'll do some more. OK, All right, promise.
44:54
I promise. With that, Elizabeth, should we
44:57
get into the old stitch rating? I think we should, Spencer, how
45:04
many stitches do you give Roman Holiday?
45:08
Honestly, it's it's just a 5 stitch movie.
45:12
I just, I don't know where are the flaws?
45:15
I can't think of any. It was just beautiful.
45:19
I feel like you're going to give it less because you weren't
45:21
crazy about Gregory Peck, but I don't know, I thought it was all
45:26
good fun. OK, now, now I'm playing some
45:30
scenes back though. Maybe I'll give it a four.
45:33
I I agree, I think it's like a A4 stitch.
45:38
Yeah. Very fun, very fun.
45:42
I would love like I would love for this to be remade today and
45:48
to be like a 2 hour film. Yeah, in color.
45:52
I like that would be incredible. But for the time it was pretty.
45:56
It was pretty good. It's a four stitch.
45:59
Some of it's a little weird, but I'm like, OK, I don't know what
46:03
people found funny in the 1950s. No, I thought it was funny.
46:07
I just think that they were setting up the storyline of
46:10
like, oh, he's the journalist and you know, he's going to sell
46:14
her story, whatever, and she can't find out.
46:17
And that never like that never came into fruition.
46:20
Which is fine because I was like oh this is going to break your
46:23
heart, but it never happened. I kept expecting him to have
46:27
have like a pocket recorder and him to be asking her questions.
46:31
Yeah. But then I'm like, I guess I
46:32
didn't have that back then. I'm like, when did that
46:37
technology? Yeah, become.
46:39
Useful. He left his iPhone at home,
46:43
Yeah. I thought he would be also
46:45
making like a lot more notes, but also I got a little confused
46:49
at the beginning because like she wakes up and he's like your
46:52
Highness and it's. Like he clearly.
46:55
Knows who she is and then she was she trying to act like that
46:59
wasn't her and he just went along with it.
47:04
No, wait, no, because. I thought she understood that he
47:08
knew who she was. And then she was like, oh, I ran
47:09
away from school. No.
47:11
Well, she never explicitly says it, and then, but she's like
47:15
kind of like muttering in her sleep because she clearly is a
47:19
terrorized sleeper. That's established very easily
47:22
very early in this film. So she's kind of muttering about
47:26
it. And then suddenly she wakes up
47:27
and he's just kind of like wet. But when she wakes up that
47:30
second time when she's muttering, he already went and
47:33
saw pictures of her at the office.
47:35
So he knows, but she doesn't know that he knows.
47:38
Yeah, but I don't know, I was a little confused by that.
47:42
But I also, I oh, I loved. I loved when she was in her
47:47
black robe and he was like, you know, duty.
47:50
She's like, how dare you speak to me about duty?
47:53
She was like, if I there's a very good, like, she just
47:56
impresses on them. Like I almost did not come back.
48:01
That reminds me too, I want to bring her to the point that her
48:03
her royal team or whatever is not get their jobs bro I mean
48:07
she was missing for days. Shall you lose a Princess like
48:12
that? Well, because she had her
48:13
sleeves rolled up, we couldn't identify the Princess.
48:18
I I I do understand how she got out of like the embassy.
48:24
I understand that, I like how did like someone not notice who
48:29
she was before she fell asleep. Oh, I thought she was caught
48:33
when that guy was like on the balcony just watching her talk
48:37
to Joe Bradley. Which by the way, two first
48:40
names, might I add. But that guy was just watching
48:45
him talk and I thought he was putting it together, but I guess
48:47
he was just so weirdo. He was just watching them, just
48:50
attacking, like eyeballing them. The Who?
48:54
The owner of his apartment building.
48:56
Yeah. No, because he that's when he's
48:59
handing her the money, right? And he knows he was in her.
49:04
She was in his apartment. I think he thought he he was
49:08
paying her for services rendered.
49:10
Oh. That's silly.
49:15
Yeah, silly, but like back then, if that's what had happened.
49:21
Services rendered? Oh gosh, well look at us argue
49:28
about a 60 year old plus movie. Well over 60 years.
49:33
Old. Yeah.
49:35
I don't know how to count with that before I get into trouble
49:38
with more math, Daniel, maybe we should play our favorite game,
49:42
second favorite game, Both our other favorite game.
49:46
Other favorite game. Hit it, Daniel.
49:47
Our only favorite game. I like the stitch one too.
49:50
That one's a favorite. That's.
49:52
Not a game. Oh, OK.
49:55
I wouldn't call that a game. It's serious.
49:57
It's serious business only. So serious about our thoughts
50:03
and opinions of what may or may not happened in a film from the
50:07
1950s. Spencer.
50:08
That's a very serious business. Loses 1 stitch for the landlord,
50:13
thinking she was a prostitute. Onward, Daniel, Elizabeth.
50:27
OK. My God, Daniel, roll the tape.
50:38
The one costume to rule them all.
50:46
All right, Elizabeth, what was your one costume to rule them
50:49
all? MY1 costume to rule them all.
50:53
It's her final regal look because it combines the freedom
50:59
she experienced on the streets of Rome with her royal duties as
51:05
a Princess. And it is just so flawless on
51:08
her. It is flattering, it is
51:09
beautiful. It is like Audrey Hepburn.
51:13
I love it. It's perfect.
51:16
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to argue if that.
51:18
She looks stunning head to toe. Everything's right.
51:21
It looks expensive. She looks like she's entered
51:25
like this new stage of her life where she understands her role,
51:29
but she's also not taking shit from anybody.
51:33
I mean, you could see on her face she's here to do business,
51:36
even if it's boring. She gets through it.
51:38
And you can just tell that she's not going to let the people
51:40
around her step all over her. And that really speaks in the
51:43
costumes. Absolutely, Spencer.
51:47
What was your one costume to roll them all?
51:50
I picked her adventure Indiana Jones type a costume that she
51:55
wears about the town where she's in her full Incognito stage.
52:00
I love that her sleeves are rolled up and I love to tie
52:04
around the neck. I love it tucked into the skirt
52:08
and the way that it just that skirt twirls.
52:11
It's it's just a beautiful costume and just everything
52:14
about it is it's just beautiful. I love the the two tones of it.
52:19
Also, it was fun seeing this film in black and white just to
52:22
see how color works on screen. It's, you know, it's been a
52:25
while and it's nice to get that reminder of how costumes really
52:28
played a role. Yeah, that was just, it was just
52:31
fun. I just loved her seeing just it
52:34
was just like a joyous movie. I've often don't love ROM coms
52:38
because I just, I'm so sensitive and I take it personally and
52:43
it's just nice to see her just living her best life, you know?
52:47
I agree and this is a great one costume to roll them all.
52:50
This is definitely like it's this is the look you think of
52:53
for Roman holiday her in this on the bike.
52:57
So a good choice, good choice I. Thank you.
53:00
I thank you. And if you would like to tell us
53:04
your one costume to roll them all, how many stitches you would
53:08
give a film, you can let us know by leaving us a little voicemail
53:13
at 626-515-1826. Or you can send us an e-mail at
53:20
theartofcostume@gmail.com. Spencer, what are we watching
53:27
next? Well, Elizabeth, we have wrapped
53:30
up our Hot Girl Summer series and honestly, I just feel like
53:36
Roman Holiday was so buttoned up and chic and perfect.
53:40
So I could really use like a little bit of ruggedness.
53:44
I need to break some shit and fight somebody and set stuff on
53:49
fire and let my hair down. So next week we are going to be
53:53
joined by costume designer Aaron Bennick to talk about the new
53:58
film The Bike Riders of Awesome Butler.
54:01
Oh my gosh. That's a time.
54:02
Party. That's exciting.
54:05
Yeah, it's it's a good film. I don't know if you've seen it
54:08
yet, but it altered something in my chemistry where I was like,
54:13
this is the life I want to live, Yeah.
54:16
You would excel at that, Spencer, I'm sure.
54:19
Have you ever seen me on a motorcycle?
54:21
It does not go well. Yeah, kind of what I imagined.
54:29
Oh, you're being sarcastic? OK, Yeah, well, once you're all
54:36
done being snarky and laughing at me, head on over to our
54:39
youtubeyoutube.com/art of Costume.
54:43
Check out this new episode of Roman Holiday, and I believe we
54:47
might be able to include some of those clips that we were
54:49
watching, hopefully. And if not, you could listen to
54:53
them. We'll.
54:54
Definitely link them if we can't put them in.
54:57
Right, and you can also watch costume talk, which is on
55:01
YouTube and you could see Carlos and Christine interview each
55:05
other on camera. So add some add some faces to
55:07
this fun. Also head to Instagram at follow
55:11
us at the Art of Costume pod on TikTok at the Art of Costume.
55:16
Our merch store has been updated with a new shirt at the Art of
55:20
costume.com/pod store. It's just a some edits to make
55:26
it the logo fit a little bit better.
55:27
Yeah. And leave us a five star text
55:30
review on Apple Podcast because it really does help.
55:34
It helps so much you have no idea.
55:36
Yeah, it does. With that, Elizabeth, we are
55:41
getting close to spooky season. Just one more episode and then
55:44
it's spooky season. I'm so excited.
55:48
Oh my gosh, we have such a good spooky season theme this year.
55:53
I can't wait to share it with you all.
55:55
Yeah, we're preparing. We're starting to research now
55:58
saying out the saying out the calls to action summoning.
56:02
Sending out Ravens. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
56:06
Or bats or whatever. Yeah.
56:10
Elizabeth, this was a fun one. Thank you for everything you
56:13
did. And I can't wait for the next
56:15
one. Me either, everybody.
56:18
We will see you next time. The Art of Costume podcast is
56:27
hosted and produced by Elizabeth Joy Glass and Spencer Williams.
56:32
Our audio engineering and editing is done by Dan White.
56:36
Follow us on TikTok at The Art of Costume and Instagram at the
56:42
Art of Costume Pod. If you want to support the show,
56:45
go to theartofcostume.com/pod store.
56:50
For more podcast updates, costume reviews, deep dives and
56:55
interviews, go to theartofcostume.com, A blog
56:59
dedicated to highlighting the best in costume design.
57:22
In 1976. She was 67.
57:25
Oh my gosh. You're so close.
57:29
I should be wearing my glasses. I don't know why I'm not.
57:35
There we go. That's better.