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'You thought the lunch guests would die’ · The Mushroom Trial: Say Grace

0:02
Speaker 1: Nine podcasts.
0:04
Speaker 2: Under cross examination, Aaron Patterson is asked whether she thought
0:08
Speaker 2: she would never have to account for a lie about
0:11
Speaker 2: having cancer because she thought the lunch guests would die,
0:14
Speaker 2: to which she replied, that's not true.
0:17
Speaker 3: Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives
0:22
Speaker 3: an Australian family's meal is now the center of a
0:25
Speaker 3: homicide investigation. For bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines, Aaron
0:29
Speaker 3: Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch she'd
0:33
Speaker 3: serve them at her home.
0:35
Speaker 4: I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this
0:38
Speaker 4: level of media and public interest.
0:41
Speaker 2: Four of the guests of that lunch were much loved
0:44
Speaker 2: members of this church.
0:45
Speaker 1: Only one will ever return.
0:47
Speaker 5: People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people.
0:52
Speaker 2: Today, Aaron Patterson remained here inside her home. She's continued
0:57
Speaker 2: to plead her innocence.
1:00
Speaker 1: In a court room and country.
1:02
Speaker 6: Victoria.
1:02
Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using deathcat mushrooms
1:06
Speaker 2: to kill She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three of
1:09
Speaker 2: her former in laws and attempting to kill a fourth.
1:12
Speaker 1: The town's church pastor.
1:14
Speaker 2: It's up to the jurors to decide what happened when
1:17
Speaker 2: Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat. Aaron Patterson has
1:21
Speaker 2: begun her cross examination on the witness stand, and she's
1:24
Speaker 2: been taken through a number of different topics, particularly around cancer, mushrooms,
1:31
Speaker 2: what her intentions were with this lunch, and why she
1:33
Speaker 2: invited people to her home. The cross examination began following
1:37
Speaker 2: two full days of evidence where Aaron Patterson was speaking
1:41
Speaker 2: with her defense barrister Colin Mandy in the examination in chief,
1:44
Speaker 2: and it has now turned to the Crown prosecutor, the
1:47
Speaker 2: net Rogers sc to lead off these questions. And she
1:51
Speaker 2: really fired a lot of these quite quickly, between different
1:55
Speaker 2: topics and different times and dates we've seen.
1:58
Speaker 3: The net Rogers was ready and raring to go this morning.
2:02
Speaker 3: She rose to her feet and stood behind that left
2:05
Speaker 3: turn faster than I think I've ever seen anybody.
2:08
Speaker 7: She had in her hands a number.
2:10
Speaker 3: Of books and folders and pens and pencils and all
2:14
Speaker 3: of these types of things when she came into the court,
2:16
Speaker 3: sitting them down in front of her, and as soon
2:18
Speaker 3: as she rose to her feet, she took with her
2:19
Speaker 3: penny one blue binder, and inside that binder, as she
2:23
Speaker 3: opened it up, we could see pages and pages of
2:26
Speaker 3: pages in there which were the notes that she was
2:29
Speaker 3: using to help direct her questioning of the accused woman.
2:32
Speaker 3: And one of the major topics we heard about today
2:35
Speaker 3: during that cross examination was cancer. This is something that
2:38
Speaker 3: Nannette asked question after question after question about for various
2:43
Speaker 3: different reasons.
2:43
Speaker 7: She was trying to track what she said were.
2:45
Speaker 3: A string of lies that Aaron Patterson told before, during,
2:49
Speaker 3: and after the lunch when it came to speaking and
2:53
Speaker 3: having conversations with her friends and family. And one of
2:56
Speaker 3: the phrases that she used when she was asking Aaron
2:59
Speaker 3: Patterson about this was this cancer lie, this alleged ploy
3:04
Speaker 3: to bring the guests together on that lunch to tell
3:07
Speaker 3: them that she had been diagnosed with cancer.
3:09
Speaker 7: Penny, But that's not what she said. Happened.
3:11
Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson said, something very very different actually happened.
3:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, through multiple parts of this questioning, Aaron Patterson
3:17
Speaker 2: denied that she had told her lunch guest that she'd
3:20
Speaker 2: been diagnosed with cancer. That was the denial she kept
3:23
Speaker 2: coming back to, saying, that's incorrect, that's untrue.
3:26
Speaker 1: When it was put to her.
3:27
Speaker 2: She was asked about in Ian Wilkinson's evidence that he
3:31
Speaker 2: had said that she had mentioned a cancer diagnosis at
3:35
Speaker 2: this lunch, that she'd talked about a type of scan
3:38
Speaker 2: that may have picked up a tumor, and she rebutted that,
3:41
Speaker 2: saying that no, she had not told these lunch guests
3:44
Speaker 2: she had been diagnosed with cancer.
3:46
Speaker 1: What she did agree to was she.
3:48
Speaker 2: Wanted the lunch guests to believe that she was going
3:52
Speaker 2: to have some cancer treatment. Now this as part of
3:56
Speaker 2: this evidence, she was taken back and forth to the
3:58
Speaker 2: different text messages she was sending members of the family
4:01
Speaker 2: at different times, and different things she was saying about
4:04
Speaker 2: her health and tests she was undergoing.
4:07
Speaker 3: She was explaining that she quite enjoyed the love and
4:10
Speaker 3: care that she felt from her family. She really denied
4:14
Speaker 3: that at that lunch she sat them down for one
4:16
Speaker 3: reason to tell them that there was cancer, but that
4:19
Speaker 3: there was any really real discussion at all about how
4:22
Speaker 3: to prep the kids to break the.
4:24
Speaker 7: News to them.
4:24
Speaker 3: And we also heard that Simon Patterson during his evidence
4:28
Speaker 3: that was something else that was put to the accused today.
4:31
Speaker 3: In his testimony, he recalled that his father Don Patterson,
4:35
Speaker 3: the day after the lunch had said to him, yes,
4:37
Speaker 3: while we were there, there was this conversation about cancer,
4:41
Speaker 3: possible chemotherapy, possible surgery, and also.
4:45
Speaker 7: Plans to tell the children.
4:46
Speaker 3: But when both of those witness testimonies were put to
4:49
Speaker 3: the accused, she said, no.
4:50
Speaker 7: That was not her recollection of the conversations at the.
4:52
Speaker 2: Lunch, and she was asked about conversations that she had
4:55
Speaker 2: with a child protection worker, Katrina Cripps as well, and
4:58
Speaker 2: when she was asked around where that she'd been, saying
5:01
Speaker 2: that she might have needed some advice on breaking something
5:05
Speaker 2: to her children, she said that, well, no, that wasn't
5:08
Speaker 2: the case. And then there was a part of the
5:11
Speaker 2: questioning when Nannette Rodgers took Aaron Patterson to what were
5:15
Speaker 2: described as thumbnails from internet searchers. That's how Aaron Patterson
5:19
Speaker 2: told them, in her words, some snapshots or screenshots is
5:23
Speaker 2: what Annannette Rodgers was saying. They were that had been
5:26
Speaker 2: found on a device belonging to Aaron Patterson. And will
5:30
Speaker 2: take you through a little bit of this evidence as
5:33
Speaker 2: it was heard in the courtroom. This is Annette Rodgers
5:36
Speaker 2: sc while questioning Aaron Patterson, the accused.
5:39
Speaker 1: It's no one's real voice.
5:40
Speaker 5: This would allow you to tell a more convincing lie
5:43
Speaker 5: about having cancer.
5:44
Speaker 4: I mean, theoretically that's true, but that's not what I did.
5:48
Speaker 5: And you did this in your attempt to present to
5:50
Speaker 5: your parents in law and Heather Wilkinson and Ian Wilkinson
5:54
Speaker 5: that you had been medically diagnosed with cancer. Correct or incorrect?
5:59
Speaker 4: Can you ask that again please?
6:01
Speaker 5: You sought out this information from the Internet for the
6:04
Speaker 5: purpose of educating yourself about ovarian and brain cancer symptoms.
6:09
Speaker 4: I did do that at one point.
6:11
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, my proposition there's several, but the first is
6:16
Speaker 5: that would allow you to tell a more convincing lie
6:18
Speaker 5: about having cancer, correct or incorrect.
6:22
Speaker 4: That was not why I did it.
6:24
Speaker 6: Why did you do it?
6:25
Speaker 4: Because I was concerned that I had a varying cancer.
6:29
Speaker 4: I was concerned that I had something wrong with my brain.
6:31
Speaker 5: I suggest that you were educating yourself in an attempt
6:35
Speaker 5: to present to your parents in law and Heather and
6:38
Speaker 5: Ian Wilkinson that you had been medically diagnosed with cancer. No,
6:42
Speaker 5: that's not correct, and you pretended to have a legitimate
6:46
Speaker 5: reason to speak with them when you organized and held
6:49
Speaker 5: the lunch at your house on twenty nine July twenty
6:52
Speaker 5: twenty three.
6:53
Speaker 4: I didn't give them any reason when I invited them.
6:55
Speaker 4: I just invited them.
6:57
Speaker 5: Detective Epping still gave evidence and produced the diary of
7:00
Speaker 5: Gail Patterson. Can I take you to that please? You
7:03
Speaker 5: remember him giving that evidence?
7:05
Speaker 8: I do.
7:06
Speaker 6: Do you remember the exhibit? I do so.
7:09
Speaker 5: On Wednesday, twenty eight June twenty twenty three, the entry
7:13
Speaker 5: appears Aaron Saint Vincent's.
7:15
Speaker 6: Arm lump it does?
7:17
Speaker 5: Do you agree that the reference in this diary entry
7:20
Speaker 5: is a reference to you? It is you told at
7:23
Speaker 5: least Gail Patterson sometime before twenty eight June twenty twenty three,
7:28
Speaker 5: that you had a lump in your elbow correct, correct,
7:31
Speaker 5: And that you had to go to Saint Vincent's Hospital
7:33
Speaker 5: for an appointment on the twenty eighth of June twenty
7:37
Speaker 5: twenty three.
7:38
Speaker 6: Correct.
7:39
Speaker 5: Correct, And by the use of the phrase Saint Vincent's
7:42
Speaker 5: you intended to convey Saint Vincent's Hospital in Melbourne.
7:46
Speaker 6: Correct.
7:46
Speaker 5: Yes, because there is no Saint Vincent's in Crumborough or
7:50
Speaker 5: leam Gatha.
7:51
Speaker 6: Is there.
7:51
Speaker 4: No, there's not.
7:53
Speaker 6: You did not have.
7:54
Speaker 5: A lump in your elbow on the twenty eighth of
7:56
Speaker 5: June twenty twenty three, that's true. You did not have
8:00
Speaker 5: an appointment at Saint Vincent's Hospital on twenty eight June
8:03
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, did you correct?
8:06
Speaker 4: No, I didn't.
8:07
Speaker 2: When I asked about whether she had used a potential
8:11
Speaker 2: cancer diagnosis or health concerns to invite these people to
8:15
Speaker 2: her home, Aaron Patterson said no, that that's not the
8:17
Speaker 2: reason that she'd asked them to come over, and she
8:19
Speaker 2: disputed that that is the reason she had told Katrina
8:22
Speaker 2: Cripps that this lunch had been held, that child protection worker.
8:26
Speaker 6: Yeah.
8:26
Speaker 3: And Nanette Rogers when she was continuing to press Aaron
8:30
Speaker 3: Patterson really hard on this lie, this cancer con this
8:33
Speaker 3: cancer lie. Well, you heard the word I suggest a
8:36
Speaker 3: lot today and a lot of Aaron Patterson's responses were yes, no, disagree,
8:40
Speaker 3: don't agree, and other times she would give longer responses,
8:42
Speaker 3: But in this particular one, Aette Rogers said that, you know,
8:45
Speaker 3: I suggest to you you never thought that this account,
8:48
Speaker 3: this lie about having cancer, would ever need to come out,
8:52
Speaker 3: because you thought all the lunch guests would die.
8:54
Speaker 2: We'll hear a little bit of that evidence as it
8:56
Speaker 2: was presented in the courtroom. This is again Aaron Patterson
9:00
Speaker 2: and Anette rogers through the evidence.
9:02
Speaker 5: So to sum up in relation to your so called
9:05
Speaker 5: cancer diagnosis, your claim to various people that you had
9:09
Speaker 5: been diagnosed with cancer before the lunch was deliberately false.
9:14
Speaker 4: Yes or no, I didn't make that claim.
9:17
Speaker 5: You told this lie. I suggest as part of your
9:20
Speaker 5: efforts to get the lunch guests and Simon to attend
9:23
Speaker 5: your lunch correct or incorrect?
9:25
Speaker 4: Incorrect?
9:26
Speaker 5: And I suggest to explain why the children were not present.
9:29
Speaker 5: Correct or incorrect?
9:31
Speaker 4: Incorrect?
9:33
Speaker 6: You knew you.
9:34
Speaker 5: Didn't have cancer, however, correct, that's true, but you needed,
9:38
Speaker 5: I suggest, to appear to have a good reason to
9:41
Speaker 5: invite your guests to lunch at your house, because it
9:44
Speaker 5: was so out of the ordinary for you to do this.
9:47
Speaker 5: Agree or disagree?
9:49
Speaker 4: Disagree?
9:50
Speaker 5: Do you say that it was ordinary for you to
9:51
Speaker 5: have people over to your house for lunch?
9:54
Speaker 4: No, it wasn't ordinary, and.
9:56
Speaker 5: It certainly wasn't ordinary to invite Ian and Hea.
10:00
Speaker 6: That was it.
10:00
Speaker 1: That's true.
10:01
Speaker 4: They hadn't been for lunch at my house before.
10:03
Speaker 5: I suggest that you never thought you would have to
10:06
Speaker 5: account for this lie about having cancer because you thought
10:10
Speaker 5: that the lunch guests would die. That's not true, and
10:14
Speaker 5: your lie would never be found out correct or incorrect.
10:17
Speaker 4: That's not true now.
10:19
Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson also was asked a number of times, sort
10:22
Speaker 2: of a number of different ways about mushrooms and particularly
10:26
Speaker 2: her dehydrator and how she had used that dehydrator to
10:29
Speaker 2: dehydrate mushrooms, different things that she had told different people
10:33
Speaker 2: over the few months in the lead up to this
10:35
Speaker 2: lunch and previously. But she was also asked about what
10:38
Speaker 2: she had told the police in relation to this particular dehydrator.
10:42
Speaker 7: As part of this.
10:43
Speaker 3: The jury were taken through images again more photographs that
10:47
Speaker 3: we have seen earlier on in the trial, and they
10:49
Speaker 3: were of the dehydrator. We saw the dehydrator in various
10:52
Speaker 3: different locations. One was a photograph that the accused agreed
10:55
Speaker 3: she had taken of the dehydrator after she purchased it
10:58
Speaker 3: in April twenty twenty three. Does were of the dehydrata
11:01
Speaker 3: in the tip. Aaron Patterson admits that the day after
11:04
Speaker 3: she was released from hospital in August twenty twenty three,
11:07
Speaker 3: she drove to the tip and she got rid of it,
11:09
Speaker 3: and she was explaining that because she agreed that she lied.
11:12
Speaker 3: She agreed that she lied to the police. She agreed
11:15
Speaker 3: that she was afraid that she would be held responsible
11:18
Speaker 3: when she was disposing of this evidence. And she also
11:20
Speaker 3: agreed with Annette Roger's assertions that her fingerprints had been
11:24
Speaker 3: found on the dehydrator as well. She didn't deny any
11:27
Speaker 3: of that, but she did deny knowing that any deathcat
11:30
Speaker 3: mushrooms could have been prepared in that dehydrator. And she
11:34
Speaker 3: also said that no stag did she ever intend to pick, dry,
11:38
Speaker 3: or cook and serve poisonous mushrooms to her lunch guests
11:41
Speaker 3: using that dehydrata.
11:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll take you again to a little bit of
11:44
Speaker 2: this evidence now in the lead up to what the
11:46
Speaker 2: listeners are about to hear. As you heard, Aaron Patterson
11:48
Speaker 2: does admit it's an agreed fact in this case that
11:51
Speaker 2: the senior fingerprint expert found that there were three of
11:56
Speaker 2: her fingerprints, her index, middle and ring fingerprints on the
11:59
Speaker 2: back of this dehydrator once it was retrieved from the tip.
12:03
Speaker 2: So both sides of the bar table agree on that.
12:06
Speaker 2: But as Ahnett Rodgers was taking Aaron Patterson through this
12:09
Speaker 2: particular part of the questioning, she'd sort of said to her,
12:13
Speaker 2: do you agree that this is your dehydrator? And the
12:15
Speaker 2: photos taken from the tip and Aaron Patterson said, well
12:18
Speaker 2: that she sort of assumed that it was and asked
12:20
Speaker 2: why that was by Nanette Rogers. Aaron Patterson said, well,
12:24
Speaker 2: if someone else could have bought a dehydraderl on too,
12:27
Speaker 2: I don't know that necessarily, And when that's when Annett Rodgers.
12:30
Speaker 1: Really took her back too. Well, you have.
12:32
Speaker 2: Agreed, haven't you, to the fact that your fingerprints are
12:34
Speaker 2: on this particular dehydrator. Let's hear a little bit more
12:37
Speaker 2: of what the court heard, not just in relation to
12:39
Speaker 2: the fingerprints, but the dehydrator itself as part of this
12:43
Speaker 2: police interview and other things.
12:45
Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson says, she told the police.
12:47
Speaker 5: You agree that they were your fingerprints found on your dehydrator.
12:51
Speaker 4: Correct.
12:52
Speaker 5: You took the dehydrator to the transfer station because you'd
12:56
Speaker 5: been using it to dehydrate mushrooms, hadn't you? Yes, And
13:00
Speaker 5: not just any old mushrooms, death cat mushrooms in fact, correct.
13:04
Speaker 4: I didn't know that i'd done.
13:05
Speaker 5: That, and you knew that they were death cat mushrooms
13:08
Speaker 5: that you had been dehydrating.
13:10
Speaker 6: Correct.
13:11
Speaker 5: I didn't know that, and you were very keen to
13:13
Speaker 5: dispose of any evidence which might connect you with the
13:17
Speaker 5: possession of death cat mushrooms.
13:19
Speaker 4: No, I didn't know they'd been in it.
13:21
Speaker 5: That's why you rushed out the day after your release
13:24
Speaker 5: from Munash to get rid of the evidence.
13:26
Speaker 6: Correct.
13:27
Speaker 5: No, you lied to police about never owning a dehydrator
13:31
Speaker 5: because you knew you had used the dehydrator to prepare
13:34
Speaker 5: death cap mushrooms to include in.
13:36
Speaker 6: The lunch No.
13:37
Speaker 4: I didn't know that.
13:39
Speaker 5: You lied because you knew if you'd told the police
13:41
Speaker 5: the truth, it would implicate you in the deliberate poisoning
13:45
Speaker 5: of your four lunch guests.
13:46
Speaker 6: Correct.
13:48
Speaker 4: No, No, it's not true.
13:50
Speaker 5: Now I want to go to the lie you told
13:53
Speaker 5: police about never dehydrating food Exhibit sixty three. Please in
13:58
Speaker 5: the record of interview that you participated in on the
14:01
Speaker 5: fifth of August, Question one six'. One all, right do
14:05
Speaker 5: you preserve foods or anything like? That, no have you
14:09
Speaker 5: ever dehydrated food or? Anything, no that was a lie
14:13
Speaker 5: that you told police about never dehydrating.
14:16
Speaker 6: Food.
14:16
Speaker 5: Correct, correct, because of, course you had posted messages in
14:20
Speaker 5: your chat group.
14:21
Speaker 6: Earlier in the.
14:22
Speaker 5: Year, CORRECT i did and told your friends that you
14:25
Speaker 5: had been dehydrating.
14:26
Speaker 6: Mushrooms. Correct.
14:28
Speaker 2: Correct the conversations With facebook friends were brought, up as
14:32
Speaker 2: we've mentioned a number of times in this part of
14:34
Speaker 2: the cross, examination and so was the evidence of some
14:37
Speaker 2: of the women who've told the court they became friends
14:40
Speaker 2: With Aaron patterson through a true Crime facebook group and
14:43
Speaker 2: then would have personal chats about various elements of their.
14:46
Speaker 2: Lives and it was mentioned through this cross examination Particularly
14:51
Speaker 2: Aaron patterson was taken to what she had said to
14:54
Speaker 2: Her facebook friends regarding her use of her, dehydrator but
14:57
Speaker 2: also how she had been using that with the mushrooms
15:02
Speaker 2: when it came to preparing food for her.
15:04
Speaker 3: Children, yeah mushrooms was another main topic of today in
15:07
Speaker 3: the line of questioning that we, heard And Nanette rogers
15:10
Speaker 3: was asking whether or Not Aaron patterson had used mushrooms
15:15
Speaker 3: previously in cooked them in.
15:16
Speaker 7: Food she, said, yes she.
15:18
Speaker 3: Had she agreed that, yes she'd use them before in
15:21
Speaker 3: meals such as muffins for her. Children and that's When
15:23
Speaker 3: nannette leaned into that little bit and, said, okay, WELL
15:26
Speaker 3: i suggest to you that you were testing at that,
15:29
Speaker 3: point testing how you could hide mushrooms in food without anybody.
15:33
Speaker 3: Noticing and the accused, agreed she, said, yes that's, fair
15:37
Speaker 3: that's a fair, summary but that wasn't her intention to
15:40
Speaker 3: do that with any sort of deceit in. Mind it
15:43
Speaker 3: was more to try and get more vegetables in the
15:46
Speaker 3: meals for her.
15:47
Speaker 2: Children, yeah and when we're talking about those particular, mushrooms
15:49
Speaker 2: we're talking about the dehydrated mushrooms that the court has
15:52
Speaker 2: Heard Aaron patterson had dried and then basically powdered down
15:56
Speaker 2: to put in things like brownies and some of the
15:58
Speaker 2: other things that you. Mentioned and she said through her
16:01
Speaker 2: evidence that she, agreed, yes there had been a conversation
16:04
Speaker 2: at the hospital in the days after the fatal, lunch
16:07
Speaker 2: and that she had had a conversation both with her estranged, Husband,
16:11
Speaker 2: simon but also with the two children in the room
16:13
Speaker 2: where they were referencing these taste tests regarding.
16:16
Speaker 1: Muffins and when she was asked sort.
16:18
Speaker 2: Of about whether the children knew that those mushrooms were
16:22
Speaker 2: in the, Muffins Aaron patterson, said this certainly wasn't the
16:25
Speaker 2: first time that the children were finding. Out that they
16:27
Speaker 2: were just having a. Discussion she said in her evidence
16:30
Speaker 2: that she had told the child after they had eaten
16:34
Speaker 2: a number of these muffins or guess, what surprise were her.
16:37
Speaker 1: Words it was a surprise.
16:38
Speaker 2: That these were the muffins that they most enjoyed actually
16:41
Speaker 2: have mushrooms in, them because this particular, child she, says
16:44
Speaker 2: doesn't like. Mushrooms, now let's hear a little bit of
16:47
Speaker 2: as you mentioned What Nanette rodgers was Asking Aaron pattison
16:51
Speaker 2: about when it came to whether these other forms of
16:54
Speaker 2: cooking she'd done were.
16:55
Speaker 5: A test and how did you blitz these mushrooms into a?
16:58
Speaker 5: Powder did you use A.
17:00
Speaker 4: I THINK i used the.
17:02
Speaker 5: THERMOMIX i suggest that you were testing to see how
17:06
Speaker 5: you could hide mushrooms in food without someone.
17:09
Speaker 6: Noticing.
17:09
Speaker 4: CORRECT i was seen IF i could put mushrooms into
17:13
Speaker 4: my kid's.
17:13
Speaker 6: Food without them. Noticing. Correct, yeah that's.
17:16
Speaker 4: Fair.
17:17
Speaker 5: Yep the next screenshot so fun, fact the dehydrator reduces
17:21
Speaker 5: mushroom mass by ninety. Percent do you Think woollies would
17:24
Speaker 5: mind IF i brought the dehydrator into their vegetable section
17:28
Speaker 5: and dry things BEFORE i buy? Them you sent that
17:31
Speaker 5: message to The facebook user GROUP i did you knew
17:34
Speaker 5: the dehydrator reduced mushroom mass by ninety percent because you'd
17:39
Speaker 5: weighed the mushrooms before and after you dehydrated them to
17:43
Speaker 5: see how it changed their. Mass, CORRECT i. Did did
17:47
Speaker 5: you research that aspect online or that was your own?
17:50
Speaker 4: Experiment AND i think that was from my own.
17:52
Speaker 5: Experiment you were interested in how much mushrooms weighed before
17:56
Speaker 5: and after being. Dehydrated, correct that's obvious from this.
17:59
Speaker 6: Post.
18:00
Speaker 2: Yes as part of this part of the, Evidence Aaron
18:04
Speaker 2: patterson was being shown not just spoken to about messages
18:07
Speaker 2: that she'd sent Her facebook, friends but shown actual particular
18:10
Speaker 2: screenshots of these, messages as well as being taken back
18:13
Speaker 2: to those photos of the dehydrator and asked whether she
18:16
Speaker 2: had shared them with these particular. People and, there as we've,
18:20
Speaker 2: mentioned more of these mushrooms being brought back and forth
18:24
Speaker 2: in the photos that were being shown to the court
18:26
Speaker 2: and the questions that were being raised With Aaron patterson
18:29
Speaker 2: around those particular mushrooms on the dehydrated trays and what
18:34
Speaker 2: they actually.
18:34
Speaker 3: Showed this came as the accused woman was asked about
18:38
Speaker 3: foraging as. Well these were two points that were really put,
18:41
Speaker 3: together and it started with her being asked about if
18:44
Speaker 3: you'd ever foraged for mushrooms in That april To july
18:46
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. Period she said, yes but denied ever
18:49
Speaker 3: seeking out death cat, varieties and the way this was
18:52
Speaker 3: asked was, okay but so we've got these photographs now as,
18:56
Speaker 3: well and we've got these photographs that show mushrooms drying
18:59
Speaker 3: on trail of a dehydrator at her. Home and she was, asked,
19:02
Speaker 3: okay you've said that you, forage but do you agree
19:06
Speaker 3: that these are death cap mushrooms on these? Trays, now
19:08
Speaker 3: these are different mushroom mushrooms drying on. Trays earlier we
19:12
Speaker 3: saw mushrooms that looked more like The woolies pre cut,
19:15
Speaker 3: variety but these ones were.
19:17
Speaker 7: Whole you could see them from the.
19:18
Speaker 3: Top they were almost an orange brown, color And Tom
19:22
Speaker 3: may had explained that they looked like that they were
19:24
Speaker 3: a few days, old And Aaron pattison had agreed as
19:26
Speaker 3: part of her, evidence but she denied that she ever
19:30
Speaker 3: deliberately picked death cap, mushrooms even when those questions were
19:34
Speaker 3: repeatedly put to her By internet.
19:36
Speaker 7: Rogers are these death cup? Mushrooms do you? AGREE i
19:39
Speaker 7: suggested to you that they.
19:40
Speaker 3: Are and then the questioning went a little bit further
19:43
Speaker 3: penny to other, photographs similar, photographs but this time it
19:47
Speaker 3: showed the accused drawing mushrooms on trays that had been
19:50
Speaker 3: placed on kitchen.
19:51
Speaker 7: Scales and it was as.
19:52
Speaker 2: Part of this element of the questioning That Aaron patterson
19:56
Speaker 2: was really being asked about what she might have been
19:58
Speaker 2: doing with those kitchens scales at the time she was
20:01
Speaker 2: Taken Byneret rodgers to all different photos from the police
20:05
Speaker 2: search of the home and also from these photos That
20:09
Speaker 2: Aaron patterson identified as being on her kitchen, bench about
20:12
Speaker 2: what she could see on the scales and what those
20:15
Speaker 2: scales looked, like whether they were her kitchen. Scales and
20:18
Speaker 2: this is Where Nannette rodgers made a suggestion To Aaron
20:21
Speaker 2: patterson that again this was another kind of experiment perhaps
20:25
Speaker 2: these particular photos showed and will let you hear this
20:28
Speaker 2: evidence as it unfolded in the. Courtroom as part of,
20:31
Speaker 2: It Aaron patterson is also being asked about the area
20:34
Speaker 2: Of locke In gippsland and AN i naturalist post regarding
20:38
Speaker 2: death cap.
20:38
Speaker 5: Mushrooms, now AS i understand your evidence before the, break
20:42
Speaker 5: you deny that these are death cap. Mushrooms that's your,
20:46
Speaker 5: evidence that's.
20:47
Speaker 4: CORRECT i don't think they.
20:48
Speaker 5: Are you don't think they are. CORRECT i suggest that
20:51
Speaker 5: you Saw christine McKenzie's post that she posted ON I
20:55
Speaker 5: naturalist on Eighteen april twenty twenty three about death cap
21:00
Speaker 5: mushrooms At. Lock you agree or? DISAGREE i. DISAGREE i
21:04
Speaker 5: suggest that you then went To lock on twenty Eight
21:07
Speaker 5: april twenty twenty.
21:08
Speaker 6: Three do you agree or?
21:10
Speaker 4: DISAGREE i don't know IF i did go to lock
21:13
Speaker 4: that day or.
21:13
Speaker 5: Not i'm going to suggest that you went to lock
21:16
Speaker 5: on that day to find death cap. Mushrooms agree or, disagree,
21:20
Speaker 5: disagree and that these mushrooms in this image are the
21:24
Speaker 5: death cap mushrooms that you found At lock on twenty
21:27
Speaker 5: Eight april twenty.
21:28
Speaker 6: Three agree or? Disagree?
21:30
Speaker 5: DISAGREE i suggest that you were weighing these, mushrooms these
21:34
Speaker 5: death cap, mushrooms so that you could calculate the weight
21:37
Speaker 5: required for the administration of a fatal dose for one
21:41
Speaker 5: person agree or, disagree, disagree and the weight required for
21:46
Speaker 5: five fatal doses for five.
21:49
Speaker 6: People agree or disagree.
21:51
Speaker 2: Disagree we'll be back with more Of Aaron patterson's evidence after. This,
21:55
Speaker 2: now in another part Of Aaron patterson's, evidence as you've heard,
21:58
Speaker 2: there she denied that she had been in any way
22:01
Speaker 2: sort of weighing up these mushrooms to find out what
22:04
Speaker 2: amount would be something that could cause a person. Harm
22:08
Speaker 2: but she was asked outwardly By Etnanette rogers whether she
22:13
Speaker 2: had served her lunch guests these Beef wellingtons and that
22:17
Speaker 2: she knew that they had death cap mushrooms in. Them
22:19
Speaker 2: she denied, that and she was asked a second question
22:22
Speaker 2: Whether Simon, patterson her estranged, husband had come to the
22:26
Speaker 2: lunch If Nanette rodgers alleged she would have given him
22:30
Speaker 2: a Beef wellington with death cap mushrooms in it. Intentionally,
22:34
Speaker 2: Now Aaron patterson replied to, that saying that if it
22:37
Speaker 2: had come to the, lunch she would have given him
22:39
Speaker 2: a Beef, wellington but that it wouldn't have intentionally contained
22:43
Speaker 2: death cap. Mushrooms, now before we get to the end
22:47
Speaker 2: of this, Episode Aaron.
22:48
Speaker 1: Patterson in the last, episode the listeners.
22:51
Speaker 2: Heard she hadn't finished her examination in chief with her
22:54
Speaker 2: defense Barrister Colin, Mandy and this did happen on the
22:57
Speaker 2: same day that the cross examination.
22:59
Speaker 1: Started but it was fairly.
23:01
Speaker 2: Brief but she was taken through a number of elements
23:04
Speaker 2: of her evidence that she says and her defense barrassed to,
23:08
Speaker 2: say are.
23:08
Speaker 3: Lies, Yeah these were questions that she agreed that she
23:12
Speaker 3: answered while being questioned by police in a record of,
23:15
Speaker 3: interview largely around the, dehydrator but also the string of
23:19
Speaker 3: lies that she told.
23:20
Speaker 8: Police in the record of the, interview you were asked
23:22
Speaker 8: some questions about the. Dehydrator i'll just go to the.
23:26
Speaker 8: Document you were, asked have you ever dehydrated food or? Anything?
23:32
Speaker 8: Yes and your answer was, No? Yes was that a?
23:36
Speaker 8: Lie it? Was then question two hundred and sixty. Three
23:41
Speaker 8: the question ends with these, words what's that in relation
23:44
Speaker 8: to do you know anything about a dehydrator in your?
23:47
Speaker 8: House and your answer is, no. Yep and then question
23:52
Speaker 8: two hundred and sixty, Four, no, okay do you own a? Dehydrator? No?
23:58
Speaker 8: No all?
23:59
Speaker 5: Right?
24:00
Speaker 8: Okay were those?
24:02
Speaker 5: Lies?
24:02
Speaker 8: Yes and why did you tell the police those lies
24:05
Speaker 8: on the fifth Of? August, WELL i.
24:07
Speaker 4: Had disposed of it a few days earlier in the
24:10
Speaker 4: context of thinking that maybe mushrooms That i'd foraged or
24:13
Speaker 4: the MEAL i prepared was responsible for making people. Sick
24:16
Speaker 4: and then on The, Saturday detective Epping stall told me
24:19
Speaker 4: That gail And heather had passed. Away and it was this,
24:22
Speaker 4: stupid knee jerk reaction to just dig deeper and keep.
24:25
Speaker 4: LYING i was just scared AND i shouldn't have done.
24:28
Speaker 8: It and in relation to foraging for, mushrooms you were
24:31
Speaker 8: asked some questions in the record of. Interview, Question, okay
24:37
Speaker 8: is that something you've done in the past foraging for? Mushrooms,
24:40
Speaker 8: yep and your answer was never, Yes and then question
24:47
Speaker 8: or anything like, that, never and your answer was. Never
24:52
Speaker 8: that was a lie, Too.
24:53
Speaker 4: Yes they were both.
24:54
Speaker 8: Lies and was that lie told for the same? Reasons.
24:58
Speaker 3: Yes then she was taken through the prosecution case against.
25:02
Speaker 3: Her Now mandy laid that, out and then she was
25:04
Speaker 3: asked to respond to each of those different.
25:06
Speaker 7: Points and here's a little.
25:07
Speaker 2: Bit of the specific prosecution case Against Aaron patterson That
25:12
Speaker 2: Colin mandy sc was taking her, through line by line
25:16
Speaker 2: and her responses as they were heard in the.
25:18
Speaker 3: Court, yeah he took her through question, answer question, answer question,
25:21
Speaker 3: answer very very very.
25:23
Speaker 7: Quickly and it was right at the very end of his.
25:24
Speaker 3: Evidence and we could see And At rogers sitting there
25:27
Speaker 3: on the other side of the lectern ready to get
25:29
Speaker 3: up and ask. Questions but this was the final thing
25:31
Speaker 3: That Colin mandy had to do with his. Client after
25:34
Speaker 3: a couple of days of asking her a lot of,
25:36
Speaker 3: questions he was quite calm and slow and quietly spoken
25:41
Speaker 3: in a lot of his. Questions but these were read
25:43
Speaker 3: very very, quickly and we'll take you through.
25:46
Speaker 2: Them.
25:46
Speaker 8: Now did you lie to people when you said you'd
25:48
Speaker 8: only cooked one batch of mushrooms for the Beef? Wellingtons?
25:51
Speaker 4: NO i didn't.
25:52
Speaker 8: Lie were all six of the Beef wellington's the? Same?
25:56
Speaker 8: Yes were each of the Beef wellingtons on each of
25:59
Speaker 8: the five plates that you served up the? Same? Yes
26:03
Speaker 8: did you lie about purchasing dried mushrooms from An asian
26:05
Speaker 8: grocer in The oakley area Of april twenty twenty? Three?
26:08
Speaker 8: No did you lie about using those mushrooms from The
26:11
Speaker 8: asian grocer in the Beef? Wellingtons NO i. Didn't did
26:15
Speaker 8: you lie about your children eating leftovers of the same
26:18
Speaker 8: meal that had been served at the? Lunch NO i.
26:20
Speaker 8: Didn't did you pretend to be sick following the?
26:22
Speaker 6: Lunch?
26:23
Speaker 4: NO i.
26:24
Speaker 2: Didn't the final thing that happened With Aaron patterson and
26:27
Speaker 2: her defense barrister before the cross examination began was she was,
26:30
Speaker 2: asked individually in relation to each lunch guest whether she
26:34
Speaker 2: had any intention.
26:35
Speaker 1: To cause them, harm and she said that she.
26:38
Speaker 2: Didn't she replied no to all of, them and as
26:40
Speaker 2: it was going through the, names First Donald, patterson Then Gail,
26:44
Speaker 2: Patterson Heather, Wilkinson Ian, Wilkinson Aaron patterson's voice sounded more
26:49
Speaker 2: and more, emotional like she was choking up getting out
26:52
Speaker 2: these nose that she was saying as she answered these particular,
26:55
Speaker 2: questions saying to her defense barrister that she did not
26:59
Speaker 2: want to cause the people harm and that she had
27:01
Speaker 2: no intention to do.
27:03
Speaker 1: That there is one other part.
27:05
Speaker 2: That will take the listeners to from what has happened
27:07
Speaker 2: in the, courtroom and that's what the jury has been
27:09
Speaker 2: told about the length of time this trial is going to.
27:13
Speaker 2: Take it is now nearly the end of the sixth
27:16
Speaker 2: week that we are recording. This, initially the jury was
27:19
Speaker 2: told this would be around a sixth week, trial but
27:22
Speaker 2: that has now.
27:23
Speaker 1: Changed that has.
27:24
Speaker 3: Just As Christopher biale didn't want to put a number on,
27:27
Speaker 3: it he didn't want to put a figure on how
27:29
Speaker 3: much longer the jury will be, therefore but he wanted
27:32
Speaker 3: to take them through what the next few weeks could look,
27:35
Speaker 3: like and it was weeks that he Mentioned. Penny he
27:38
Speaker 3: said he expects the accused to be on the stand
27:40
Speaker 3: for another few. Days we have a public holiday coming,
27:43
Speaker 3: up so the jury won't be sitting on that, day
27:45
Speaker 3: and then to follow that there could be more evidence
27:48
Speaker 3: called once they find out whether or not that's the,
27:51
Speaker 3: case that could be extra time if that doesn't, Happen,
27:54
Speaker 3: penny he was explained to the jury that they next
27:56
Speaker 3: move into the closing submissions from both the prosecution and,
27:59
Speaker 3: defeat which.
28:00
Speaker 7: Could take a couple of days. Each he said he
28:03
Speaker 7: then may need.
28:04
Speaker 3: Some time the judge himself to finalize what he calls his,
28:08
Speaker 3: charge that's the directions he essentially gives to the jury
28:12
Speaker 3: before they go out to consider their. Verdict and he
28:15
Speaker 3: said after he'd made that decision and the time formulating
28:19
Speaker 3: that his charge itself would then.
28:20
Speaker 7: Take a couple of days as.
28:21
Speaker 3: Well so if we're trying to count numbers as he
28:24
Speaker 3: was going, along we're looking at another couple of weeks
28:27
Speaker 3: at this.
28:27
Speaker 2: Stage, yeah that, certainly as you, said he didn't want
28:29
Speaker 2: to put an exact figure on, it but he wanted
28:31
Speaker 2: the jury to be prepared and to be able to
28:34
Speaker 2: understand that this is what is starting to happen.
28:37
Speaker 1: Toward the end of this.
28:38
Speaker 2: Trial he also noted that once the jury goes, out he, said,
28:42
Speaker 2: well then the shoes on the other, foot because it
28:44
Speaker 2: will be up to them how long they, deliberate he,
28:47
Speaker 2: said sort, of how's long is a piece of string
28:49
Speaker 2: in relation to, that and that they can take as
28:51
Speaker 2: much time as they.
28:53
Speaker 1: Need so you AND i.
28:54
Speaker 2: Erin we will be remaining in More well for quite
28:57
Speaker 2: some time to, come and we'll bring the listeners.
28:59
Speaker 1: More as we, mentioned there.
29:01
Speaker 2: Is a public holiday coming up where there won't be
29:03
Speaker 2: any evidence heard for a couple of days by the.
29:06
Speaker 2: Court but when we can bring you more of what
29:08
Speaker 2: has been happening inside the courtroom and this evidence in, detail.
29:11
Speaker 6: We will.
29:13
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode Of Say. Grace
29:16
Speaker 2: please press the follow button in your app to get
29:18
Speaker 2: our next episodes as soon as we.
29:19
Speaker 3: Publish for more reporting on the, case check out The
29:22
Speaker 3: age of Nine news in your browser or app.
29:24
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Speaker 2: land that this podcast was recorded on and wherever you're
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Speaker 2: listening to it. Now Say grace is created and hosted
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