Latest / Beyond the Paycheck / The Game Boy rule: how DaBella teaches delayed gratification at work
Transcript
- Beyond the Paycheck - Jeremy Stick === [00:00:00] Kelsey Willock Jones: Welcome, Jeremy Stick, CHRO at DaBella. We're so excited to have you this morning. To kick us off, I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our audience, sharing a bit more about your current role, your background, and where you're calling in from today. Jeremy Stick: Thank you. So Jeremy Stick, I'm calling from DaBella. [00:01:00] It's a home improvement organization. We have about twenty-six hundred employees. We have ~sixty-two offi- ~sixty-eight offices across twenty-eight states. I have been in the HR space for a little over twenty years, a diverse background from human capital, working with government consultants doing work with the Coast Guard, Bureau of Engraving and Printing, and the CIA. I've done some private equity and then venture capital work as well. And I'm calling in today from Austin, Texas Kelsey Willock Jones: What a cool background. I have so many questions for you. Maybe you can't share anything about the CIA, but I still am tempted to ask. As well as all the cool investing work that you do. But before we get there we were talking a little about before this conversation. I wanna back up a little bit before we get to all of your HR private equity VC work. Tell me a little bit about your first job, and if you recall, what you spent your first paycheck on. Jeremy Stick: Absolutely. So my very first job, I was actually in junior high and I worked in the school cafeteria [00:02:00] washing dishes. I made $2.35 an hour. So that's gonna date me 'cause that was minimum wage way back then. But my very first paycheck when I got it, I didn't know what to do with it, and so my parents helped me open a checking and savings account. So they made sure that they were the ones holding the checks and they also held the card for me to withdraw funds so I couldn't go do that, but that's where the money went. And then the very first thing that I ever actually purchased is I helped buy my first Game Boy with my parents Kelsey Willock Jones: We love setting the right foundations out the gate. So I imagine that has kept with you the rest of your life, having those good money behavior patterns, but also treating yourself is important too. How do you think your early money story has influenced how you think about showing up for your people and thinking about pay and benefits? Jeremy Stick: So for me, it was always about when I had the money, it was what I was gonna do with [00:03:00] it, but then weighing whether it was the immediate gratification or pausing and then looking for something down the road and being stable. And for a lot of individuals now, when they get into the workforce one of the big things that they're presented is a 401(k). And unfortunately, a lot of people really don't understand what goes into a 401(k)and why it's so useful. A lot of people are really focused on the now. They want their paycheck now, and they wanna be able to spend the money, and they're not thinking about 10, 20, 30 years from now. And one of the things that I do in my position and then I work with my team is we're constantly trying to give that education about don't look at just today, think about your future and think about that Game Boy that you want instead of the candy that you wanna go get right away. And it's, the delayed gratification, but it's also for stability Kelsey Willock Jones: It can be very challenging to love your future self, but it's clear that your organization focuses so much [00:04:00] on, what's the right education to get people not to think about, just today and tomorrow, but, down the road. So tell me a little bit about what being an HR leader means to you. You've clearly had such a colorful and interesting and unique background. What led you to that path? And also why are you so excited and passionate about it? Jeremy Stick: So actually my path to HR, as probably a lot of people will say, I stumbled into it or took a turn and ended up there. ~Initially I was actually getting my master's-- ~I got my master's degree in education psychology, and then I got waitlisted on the doctoral program. So while I was at the University of Nebraska, I was a graduate assistant, so my tuition was covered. I was in the teachers college, and a professor said, "Why don't you take some electives while you're waiting? They're still covered." So I took my first class in organizational design, then I took my second, then my third, and then my fourth. The conclusion of my fourth one, the professor sat me down and he said, "What is it about clinical or [00:05:00] counseling psych that has got you interested?" And I said, "I wanna help people." And he said, "Organizations are going to need a lot of help. Have you thought about a career in HR?" I said, "No." I really didn't understand it. I also had the stigma of I don't wanna be in HR, everybody hates it. And he said, "It's an opportunity for you to really influence and make a difference." And so they allowed me to tailor my doctoral program, and it was community human resources with an emphasis in leadership development. And that was one of the big things that I was passionate about, was developing the next set of leaders in the future Kelsey Willock Jones: I love that, and it's a good segue into my next question is, we're seeing a lot of organizations focus significantly on, developing folks' career, investing in the whole person, whether it's their mental, physical financial health, as you'd already mentioned. How do you educate people for the future? Can you tell me a little bit about one thing you're really excited about at the company in terms [00:06:00] of what you're doing to support the whole person? Jeremy Stick: Definitely. So a philosophy that I have, some people appreciate it, others will challenge it, is that in any organization, you need to be training and developing the people so they can leave. You flip it around and you treat them so well that they stay, and that's really where the whole employee life cycle comes in. It's you've started on day one, what does your future look like here? And working to really give them the opportunities. A lot of people will leave an organization because they don't have that next opportunity or they feel like they're being stifled. Our job is give them those opportunities, and there are going to be times when you've developed somebody and the next step isn't at the company because you don't need another director, you don't need another manager. But if you've developed them to that point and they have to move on, I call that a graduation, and that means that they've left on good terms. You've given them the skills. Your job is to now help them [00:07:00] get to that next level and then train their backfill Kelsey Willock Jones: And when you're thinking about really making the argument for these programs and the success of them, how do you think about measuring success, particularly when maybe the spreadsheet doesn't so obviously support it? Jeremy Stick: For me, I look at what I consider regrettable turnover. So obviously when people leave, there's voluntary. There are times when somebody leaves voluntarily and you're like "It hurt, but we can move on." For me, I track those regrettable ones and it's why did they leave? What did we do? Getting the exit survey, did we make the miss? And really using that and showing people it's, "Look, "Here's what our turnover looks like. We've got our involuntary, our voluntary." Within that section though, how many people are we truly regretting? And then what's gonna be the impact? So three months to try to find a backfill, three months to get them trained up, so you've got a six-month lag. That's gonna create a downward stream where your remaining good employees [00:08:00] are taxed because the work had to shift to them Kelsey Willock Jones: Such a good point because I don't think we always think about the weight in which a loss of such ~a, a, ~a regrettable loss, for example, can make. It can make a major impact in terms of morale, not just business productivity and not to mention the cost of having to backfill that individual. So ~it's a, ~it's actually one of the first times I've heard this question answered in this way. So many of the times, people will say things such as perhaps we'll mention retention, but it's often, engagement of a program what are the cost savings associated? It's the non-obvious cost savings that can be, the really make or break things of an organization, and it turns out it always goes back to a really good person and the power and the impact they made within an organization. Jeremy Stick: Absolutely. And the interesting thing when you've got the loss of the person, it's not always the easiest thing to quantify. But when you're in HR, we're the biggest cost center. We can [00:09:00] make or break an organization, and retaining bad employees is a cost. Losing good ones is an even bigger cost. And it's understanding where those go in and then really looking at how it's gonna impact the bottom line Kelsey Willock Jones: Can you tell me a little bit about a benefit strategy, whether at this organization or prior employers that you've worked at, trying to figure out a way to ask a question around the CIA. Tell me about a strategy that you've implemented that maybe did not go the way you expected Jeremy Stick: One of the organizations I was at, we were trying to roll out a new wellness program, and we had the intent. It was all done with the best intent, and it quickly spiraled out of control in terms of what we were doing, what we were allowing. And instead of it actually focusing on the physical component of it and making people healthy, it became just this generic this makes me feel better, and so I'm gonna buy this and I'm gonna use it as [00:10:00] an expense," and it didn't qualify as an actual expense. And so then we had to try to walk it back, and it was a mess. It was truly great plan, terrible execution. And then we also made the mistake of it was allowing the first one to slide, which opened up the second one. And at the end, it really destroyed the program, and it really hindered the intent behind it because it was supposed to promote mental and physical wellness, but it just became an extra stipend that had nothing to do with it Kelsey Willock Jones: Yeah, I've actually certainly seen wellbeing dollars particularly be spent in unique ways, ~m- parti- ~mostly driven by employees that get creative about it. But, lesson learned and now there's a lot of really interesting tools that allow us to think about, okay, let's only make XYZ qualified and therefore it actually ties back to something physical or mental. But I think it's a really good reminder that even though maybe those stipends have the best intention in mind, if [00:11:00] not carefully communicated and executed, can, spiral out of control. Jeremy Stick: Yeah, and then walking it back is you've just taken something away from the employee, though Kelsey Willock Jones: It sounds like you have had a lot of success in the financial health world, though. So can you tell me a little bit about how important financial health is for employees to DaBella, and also why it's so important? Jeremy Stick: Financial health is just, it's a critical part. Right now, costs are increasing. What we've got today is gonna be very different than what we have tomorrow. And our job is really to give people the understanding of how our 401(k)system is gonna work, how if we've got an HSA, and understanding how to leverage that within your benefit selections. And for some people, it's talking to them and saying, "I know that you're afraid of a high deductible plan because you hear this $3,000 out-of-pocket, but you can put that money away into an [00:12:00] HSA." And what I do is I take the fear away from it and actually break it down and show them in Excel sheets. It's, "Here's your monthly premium. Now, if you were to, say, worst case scenario had to have an emergency surgery of some sort, and it's gonna cost $3,000. So if you budgeted that over the course of the year, but put that into your HSA, this is what happens, but you've also got the tax deferment." And it takes away some of that fear from them because they can see it. It's not an emotion-based. They can see the math. And so showing people what a plan looks like and then also talking to them about, "Look, if you only put 3% of your salary away in a 401(k), it doesn't sound like a lot, but look at the compounding. This is what it does. If you're doing this, here's the tax deferment that you get if you're going one way," and really showing them. And for me, it's the education. Candidly, it was stuff that I didn't get when I started at my first job, and I remember when it was the 401(k), it was, "Nope, I have no [00:13:00] interest in that." And it was, "I want my money and I want it now." And then it was the second job that I got that I finally started to think about it, and people were talking to me about, "Look, you're young. Start putting money away into this, and this is what'll happen." And then it really was the trigger. It was the, "If I do this now, I get the Game Boy later." Kelsey Willock Jones: I love that we keep coming back to the Game Boy because it's like such a good example because I imagine on that first paycheck you couldn't afford it, right? $2 an hour probably didn't get you to, I don't know what a Game Boy cost at the time. But when you think about your... Jeremy Stick: I think Kelsey Willock Jones: Something like that. And I remember similarly, I had a manager hover over me saying, "You're gonna do this." "I don't wanna do this. I have student loan debt, all these other things." "You're gonna thank me in 10 years." And lo and behold, very much so thanked her 10 years later. But it can be really challenging in the moment when, it can feel nice to be able to spend that, that dollar tomorrow and get that immediate gratification that humans so love. Jeremy Stick: also talking with people, when they get into a new position or [00:14:00] they get a raise, it's giving them a little bit of education. It's, "Look, you've got this new salary. You were working and affording everything on your previous one. Don't increase your spend to match your new salary. Just remember where you were." And that also helps to give them a little bit more stability, and they're putting more away in savings Kelsey Willock Jones: You and I both know as folks that are deeply interested in psychology, lifestyle creep is very challenging to overcome with pure willpower alone. But if we are educated and understand it, then we get a little bit more control back in our pockets. So there's been a ton of changes going on in the world of HR recently. Whether it's AI, regulation updates dealing with healthcare cost changes. How are you staying ahead of the curve in terms of, staying and rolling with the punches on new technology? Obviously, you'd even mentioned that you've worked in venture capital as well as private equity. Are there conferences, networks that you've been a part of? [00:15:00] I imagine maybe even angel investing groups. Where are you staying top of the curve? Jeremy Stick: For me, constantly reading. Looking at various news articles, also checking LinkedIn to see what's new and exciting. I belong to a CHRO network and it came part of through the private equity group that I was tied to. So we all share new tips and tricks that are coming out, and really leveraging the network so that what they're trying, I can learn from the mistakes that they've had. And then also saying, "Here's what I've got. Here's what we're looking to do." But technology is one of those that it's ever-evolving, and one of the challenges is keeping us ahead of it. So right now in HR, I still feel like candidly for me, I'm behind. I feel like the newest thing comes out, and I'm about a month or two off of it. Just constantly trying to stay there, but I know I've got work to do Kelsey Willock Jones: I'm super curious, are you able to share the CHRO network you're a part of or is it private? Jeremy Stick: It's [00:16:00] private. I'm sorry. Kelsey Willock Jones: No worries. I'll always push 'cause I, I love giving people the opportunity to sign up to be a part of new groups. But appreciate that it is a private and closed-door network. And one of my last questions for you is, what is a compensation or benefit shift that you see coming that most HR leaders are not ready for? Jeremy Stick: I don't know that it's they're not ready. Everybody knows that salaries are starting to creep up. And when COVID was here, one of the benefits was working from home, and everybody was doing that. I see the shift coming back into the office, and I think some people are still fighting that. And what they're gonna get into, I think, is a talent war because what they want may not be in the city that they're in anymore because people have moved. And so then it's do you relocate the person? Do you do the carve-out and it's this person can be remote? And, DaBella is 100% on-site company. That is a sacred cow here. [00:17:00] Even through COVID they were on-site. And I think some HR individuals are really still stuck in the, "It's gotta be remote. That's the only way I'm gonna get the top talent." Coming into the office it was honestly a joy for me to come back into the office. It's the interaction with people. It's the water cooler discussion, but it's also building those connections. On Teams or Zoom, the minute that call ends, you hit the end button and you've gone off. The other part is you're working and living in the same spot, so your home and work life blend. Whereas going with back to the, in-office or a hybrid setting, you're getting that separation. And I think some people are still fighting that. ~I-- ~It's probably something that's a controversial view, but I view that it is a big thing that we should start considering and more organizations will get better value from their employees with the interaction Kelsey Willock Jones: I would totally agree with you on that. I think that the discourse I'm even noticing, and I know it, it's, culturally different for different types of companies, but [00:18:00] I think there's a craving to be around other people, especially in a work environment, that for many years, that craving didn't exist because working from home was a novelty. And now we're in this time where it's actually a novelty to be in an office. And young people that have never worked in an office environment want to be in a work environment. Folks that, maybe grew up in their careers having that are wanting it back. I know I certainly love being around people, especially in a work environment. So entirely right. The companies need to think about, all right, how do we add this back to a line item that maybe we haven't thought about for many years? Jeremy Stick: It'll be interesting. I'm always fascinated, especially watching in the Austin area. It's now the number of on-site jobs that are being posted, buildings are filling back up, and the commercial real estate is starting to boom again. So it's definitely a shift from five years ago Kelsey Willock Jones: Absolutely. ~M-my, ~my youngest brother went into commercial real estate five years [00:19:00] ago. Not the best time to be getting into it, as you can imagine, but now that, that pendulum is certainly swinging in his favor. And my last question for you, Jeremy, is what's the last thing that you'd like to leave with our audience today? And you can take this in any direction you want Jeremy Stick: Last thing is, so this is something I joke about but I also wrote a, I guess it's a LinkedIn article. Whenever people think of individuals who work in HR, they say, "Oh, that's HR." And what I want people to remember is we have names, and so the article I wrote, it says, "My name is Jeremy, not HR." And we are people. We listen. We're here to help. We're not the enemy. And it's really remembering that we offer a lot and can be your partner Kelsey Willock Jones: I think that's just a wonderful message to leave. And I think I know the title of the LinkedIn post. "I interviewed Jeremy" is what it's gonna be when I share this conversation more broadly. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jeremy. I really appreciate your time and all your candor and all of your [00:20:00] wisdom. Would love for our network to be able to connect with you, follow you on LinkedIn after this conversation. Is there anywhere else that they can find you? Jeremy Stick: Nope, just LinkedIn. No other social media for me Kelsey Willock Jones: Okay, perfect. Thank you so much again, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your week Jeremy Stick: Thanks a lot, Kelsey