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389: Why Your First Hire for a Childcare Project Should Be an Architect with Matt Hart · ChildCare Conversations

• 0:03
  Childcare Conversations: Welcome to Childcare Conversations, a growing community of early childhood leaders asking better questions and finding real solutions together.
• 0:11
  Childcare Conversations: The conversations shaping early childhood happen here.
• 0:15
  Childcare Conversations: This episode is presented by North Star School Supply, the one-stop shop for all things school furniture, dramatic play, steam, changing tables, playgrounds, and more.
• 0:28
  Childcare Conversations: All at amazing savings for your center.
• 0:30
  Childcare Conversations: We're proud to partner with a team that's as committed to your success as we are.
• 0:35
  Childcare Conversations: Visit NorthstarschoolSupply.com to learn more.
• 0:39
  Childcare Conversations: Now let's get into today's conversation, one we think you're really going to enjoy.
• 0:46
  Kate Woodward Young: Welcome back to today's conversation.
• 0:49
  Kate Woodward Young: And I'm actually really excited because I like thinking outside of the box for our guests.
• 0:53
  Kate Woodward Young: And today we have Matt Hart, and we are literally going to think outside of the box as we have a conversation with Matt.
• 1:00
  Kate Woodward Young: Matt is an architect.
• 1:02
  Kate Woodward Young: Did I get that correct?
• 1:03
  Kate Woodward Young: Because you know, there's all kinds of different worlds and versions of what that means.
• 1:08
  Kate Woodward Young: And um we're going to talk a little bit about what it's like to do um new builds, uh, rehab builds, and we might even have a conversation about a street address.
• 1:18
  Kate Woodward Young: So, Matt, tell us a little bit about how you got into the job that you currently have.
• 1:24
  Kate Woodward Young: And then if you want to tell us how you found the company you currently work for, that'd be great, but you don't have to.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you for having me.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to share some of uh our story.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I work for Krista Ministries, which is a um it's a nonprofit located in Washington, and we manage several different ministries.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: We have World Concern, which is missions build, we have Senior Living, and we have a summer camp, and then we have King's Schools, which is um project that I'm gonna talk about today.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh so Kings has Early Learning Center, and it's a project we've recently completed.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as far as how I got here, is uh like you said a second ago, I am an architect, and I can actually call myself an architect.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm licensed in Texas and Washington.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I practiced for about 18 years between a couple of firms, one in Dallas and one in Seattle.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh several years ago, I decided that uh I would like to move to what's the owner side and uh do more of the uh construction management part of the uh business.
• 2:30
  Kate Woodward Young: I love that.
• 2:30
  Kate Woodward Young: So we're gonna talk about the construction management specifically today.
• 2:34
  Kate Woodward Young: And one of the things that I found so interesting when working with Matt is kind of some of those aha moments.
• 2:40
  Kate Woodward Young: So those of us in early childcare know that there was a lot of regulation into our industry.
• 2:45
  Kate Woodward Young: But believe it or not, when you're rehabbing a building, when you're building a new building, there's probably just as much, if not more.
• 2:51
  Kate Woodward Young: And there's definitely as many people with their hands going, you have to do it this way.
• 2:55
  Kate Woodward Young: And you can't do one thing without before you you can't do them out of order.
• 2:59
  Kate Woodward Young: And if you do, you're gonna get your hands macked.
• 3:02
  Kate Woodward Young: So tell us a little bit about um, if I remember right, um, your school actually had a major rehab.
• 3:10
  Kate Woodward Young: And so tell us the size of the school and tell us a little bit about the scope of that project.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So about three years ago, we decided we would like to grow our ELC, and uh we called it just King's Preschool back then, because we wanted to grow our other schools as part of our uh our mission.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so we had an existing old school that it our capacity was a 104, and we most of the time were up around 95 or 100 as far as kids, and we wanted to curl that to see if we could get it up to 300.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we had an empty old nursing, it was an old skilled nursing unit on our campus, and it was 32,000 square feet, and it was used for storage for the last five years.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so we started doing our own internal review and decided, you know what, we're going to do a change of use and we're going to make this into a very, very large ELC.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, you know, we started off um before I got here, they had already hired an architect.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that was one of the biggest pieces of advice I can give anyone is make sure you have an architect that specializes in ELCs.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Myself, I specialized in healthcare when I was practicing.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, the architect that we had at the time is a smaller firm.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have much experience.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we ended up hiring um NAC out of Spokane, Washington.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: They have offices in Seattle, Columbus, LA, and they're fantastic.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they they helped us not only see like make the vision come true, but also just see how any of the mistakes we were making with our design and what we thought we wanted, and and making it you know really workable.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, make sure it's an architect that has a relationship with your licensing agency.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: That is huge when you go to get licensed.
• 5:10
  Kate Woodward Young: Oh, absolutely.
• 5:11
  Kate Woodward Young: I mean, you're talking about that Mike having some flashbacks.
• 5:15
  Kate Woodward Young: And I've also worked with enough people built doing brand new builds or what sometimes is called a green build.
• 5:20
  Kate Woodward Young: So sometimes when we're talking about a green build, if you hear somebody talk about that now, that means basically from from start to script from start to finish.
• 5:29
  Kate Woodward Young: You know, 15 years ago, that meant more like green building, environmentally friendly kind of a build.
• 5:35
  Kate Woodward Young: And a brown build is more of a kind of a rehab of an existing building, kind of like what y'all did.
• 5:41
  Kate Woodward Young: So you decided that your facility had strong enough bones that it made sense that everything just needed to, did you so did you guys get it from the beginning and put in all new walls?
• 5:51
  Kate Woodward Young: When you talk about uh repurposing, what did that look like for y'all?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, early on, we were like, okay, we're just going to demo, uh essentially imagine like a nursing home and you have all these rooms, and we're like, we'll just demo a wall between each room, and boom, we have classrooms.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all owners to look out for.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, first of all, when you start a renovation project, the first thing you need to do is have a regulated buildings material study, aka see if you have asbestos in lead.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first thing.
• 6:24
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and we knew we did, and you know, we went through a full abatement.
• 6:29
  Kate Woodward Young: I was gonna say, yeah, the abatement process alone.
• 6:31
  Kate Woodward Young: I mean, I had to take down a building that had the best asbestos, and just the trying to take down a building was quite the the experience because um actually what got me the most and what took me the longest in my case was the gas line coming into the building.
• 6:47
  Kate Woodward Young: Um it wasn't prepping for the abatement or anything that went with that was the pest control and the gas line.
• 6:56
  Kate Woodward Young: Anyway, I squirreled.
• 6:58
  Kate Woodward Young: Okay, so um you have to have a materials study to make sure that you don't have the lead and the asbestos.
• 7:05
  Kate Woodward Young: Obviously, I'm guessing you did more than just every other wall.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so uh, you know, once again, a lot of odors, they may or may not have the existing drawings.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: We did have decent existing drawings, but our structural drawings were incorrect.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, verification on your structural piece.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to go through and do a small seismic upgrade as we were doing our demo work.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: So luckily we were doing a lot of that during pre-construction because we actually brought on our general contractor at the same time we were designing.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: That way they could go out there, do a little bit of selective demo, see where we need to go.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another great one for others.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, be sure you have a construction partner lined up too.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Don't wait until, you know, like, okay, architect, you're done.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go hard bit it.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it it's better on a reno to get that contractor out there looking around.
• 8:01
  Kate Woodward Young: And even like so, part of the reason and how we met, and I think it's important is to even understand the the ultimate use and equipment.
• 8:09
  Kate Woodward Young: So your FF and E folks, like I think having all of them part of that initial process is actually really, really important.
• 8:16
  Kate Woodward Young: I think that, um, like you said, don't try to do this without these people, right?
• 8:21
  Kate Woodward Young: And I loved your suggestion to making sure that if you're bringing in an architect, find one that's familiar with the industry and then that also has a relationship.
• 8:29
  Kate Woodward Young: And I would say not even only with the the child care licensing, but also as familiar with your community if you can, uh, because then you've got, you know, fire and you've got planning and zoning.
• 8:40
  Kate Woodward Young: And, you know, just because somebody's in the region doesn't necessarily mean if they've never built something in your specific municipality, um, make sure you've got somebody to help um with some of getting things through the right departments.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a that's a really good point where I'm guessing most people that listen to this podcast don't have someone on their staff like me.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, probably most of them don't have a Matt on staff.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you are correct.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just happens to have a director of construction to handle these things, me.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so owners, if if you're looking at doing this, you need an expert, and you probably need to hire a construction manager or some sort of client rep for yourself that does understand all the things that Kate was just talking about, you know, understanding entitlements with your local HGAs, you know, the licensing piece.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other part you were talking about is the FFE part.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So your furniture fixtures and equipment.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily, I've been through this a million times on hospital projects, very similar.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so we internally, it was me and then one of our admins, we took on the furniture planning and procurement.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's another piece to make sure that your architect or interior designer can handle.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, working with uh a company like you know, Jaunty Craft or you know, some of the big ones, to go back and forth, get the plans.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And these companies can, you know, if you have a floor plan, you can send it to them and they'll outfit it for you.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the last thing on that is when it comes time to pre to do procurement and really talk to your contractor and get your dates aligned.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have a ton of experience and we still receive half of our furniture was too early.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like, oh well, let's move it over here.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily we got space.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the other half was too late.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like, all right, we have some kids over here, so try to be quiet during that time.
• 10:46
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, so I met Mart met Matt through uh North Star School Supply.
• 10:54
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think that one of the things that, you know, is understanding and having those conversations with whatever company you're using to procure your equipment is can they help you?
• 11:04
  Kate Woodward Young: Because some of those, you know, companies can also warehouse and kind of hold it for you.
• 11:09
  Kate Woodward Young: You guys had the space.
• 11:11
  Kate Woodward Young: Not everybody who's listening is going to have the space.
• 11:13
  Kate Woodward Young: And if you're doing a green build, you might really not have the space.
• 11:16
  Kate Woodward Young: I have, you know, one of the clients that I worked with was doing a green build.
• 11:20
  Kate Woodward Young: And because of rain, and again, like you said, that conversation about delivery and when things were coming, there was some rain delays between the conversation of are you going to be available to take it and the actual being able to take it didn't necessarily happen.
• 11:36
  Kate Woodward Young: So we ended up having to try to find a place to store stuff because that particular city in that particular state, you could not put the equipment in until you had the certificate of occupancy.
• 11:47
  Kate Woodward Young: And that's not the same in every municipality.
• 11:50
  Kate Woodward Young: So, you know, just because somebody has been a builder in one state, one city, doesn't necessarily mean that they've got all of the ins for um where you actually happen to be.
• 12:02
  Kate Woodward Young: But that brings us to our other conversation that I actually found intriguing when we we jumped on.
• 12:07
  Kate Woodward Young: Because having worked in the industry um kind of parallel for a while.
• 12:13
  Kate Woodward Young: Um so if you ever take a property and you're changing its use, like in this situation, or maybe you're just starting from scratch and you don't even have roads yet, um, the whole process to name a road can be in your municipality quite the adventure because they can't have any other names in the area that sounds similar.
• 12:34
  Kate Woodward Young: So uh when working in San Antonio, I remember the process diligently for an entire community neighborhood of what it was like to try to name the roads.
• 12:44
  Kate Woodward Young: In your situation, you guys have lots of buildings already on your property, but so were you changing where the front door was?
• 12:51
  Kate Woodward Young: What happened and how did this become quite the adventure?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we um it was interesting when we first uh started the project.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the building that we use is connected to another building.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just all these interconnected buildings, and it was one address, and I was like, oh, and that's on the opposite side of where the parking lot is located.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we worked with our local HJ and we did a change of address, which I recommend starting that process very early, if you can before your building permit, because then you get into a really weird situation where your billing permit's a different address than your building, uh, which most AHJs can work through with you.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that's if you're dealing with a single entity.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So our city is a city of Shoreline.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's the easy part.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um when you start to do your license, especially if you are a change of address or a new building.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, we had to go through the state of Washington and do several checks.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the um state of Washington's, like their ecology website, only had the one building address, and we were trying to license under our new building address.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And our licensor said, Oh, wait, you can't do that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're the address.
• 14:09
  Kate Woodward Young: Did they also try to make you a whole new program because you were now because I've had that happen where literally somebody changed, like you said, kind of like a which door was gonna be the main door?
• 14:20
  Kate Woodward Young: And so they wanted them to go through the whole process all over again from licensing, from quality, from fire health.
• 14:26
  Kate Woodward Young: Like all they were doing was changed what front door they were using because of the parking lot situation, because it was a church.
• 14:32
  Kate Woodward Young: And so the church was where the one parking lot had been, they were gonna put a new building.
• 14:37
  Kate Woodward Young: And so they couldn't use that parking lot anymore.
• 14:39
  Kate Woodward Young: So they decided to use another parking lot and another entrance for the early learning center.
• 14:44
  Kate Woodward Young: So yeah.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, anytime, uh state of Washington, anytime you change buildings, you'll have to go through the full process.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes back to having a good architect that understands the process and has a relationship with your local HJ and local licensor.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we were very clear, very transparent of everything we were doing, letting our local licensor and then the Save reviewers know we're moving buildings.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: That process was actually pretty seamless when you compare it to others.
• 15:13
  Kate Woodward Young: Oh, yay! Okay, Yay, Washington.
• 15:15
  Kate Woodward Young: Woohoo!
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I I attribute, you know, the the state worked with us diligently.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then NHC did a great job of knowing when to contact them, knowing when to say, hey, we got this coming up.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then also connecting um your local OHJ with your licensor.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the time, these groups don't ever talk to one another.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, like you were saying, you have to go through all these reviews.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: When you have a building permit, you have the local city fire department reviewing you.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: State of Washington, you also have the state fire marshal, which they may not look at all the same things.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to be prepared for all those things.
• 15:58
  Kate Woodward Young: But yeah, when you when you throw in the county people, so again, um, different states have different levels of municipality, right?
• 16:06
  Kate Woodward Young: So, and depending on the address, um, you know, I worked with a program that uh my favorite was the the county fire and the state license had different um opinions about which way uh an outside gate was supposed to open from a playground.
• 16:26
  Kate Woodward Young: And like the neither one of them were going to approve the other one.
• 16:30
  Kate Woodward Young: And I'm like, and and it had been a grandfathered program.
• 16:33
  Kate Woodward Young: So it wasn't like this was a new build or even a refresh.
• 16:35
  Kate Woodward Young: It was just a new license.
• 16:37
  Kate Woodward Young: And so they were like having competing, and I'm just like, you two figure it out and let me know what what I need to do with my my swinging of my gate.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like Yeah, most of the time they never talk.
• 16:48
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah, never, never, ever, ever.
• 16:50
  Kate Woodward Young: So yeah, so but it's good because I think that sometimes in early learning we get kind of obsessed with, well, why do I have to do this for this department and this department?
• 16:59
  Kate Woodward Young: And like in Texas, um, there are certain assessments that no longer have to be done from a child care licensing standpoint.
• 17:06
  Kate Woodward Young: However, the health departments in most counties still require those assessments to be done.
• 17:12
  Kate Woodward Young: And so people were like, oh yay, I don't have to do this anymore.
• 17:15
  Kate Woodward Young: And what we're like, but check your county, because some of the counties you do still have to do that.
• 17:20
  Kate Woodward Young: It just is no longer a childcare licensing, but it is still a health department.
• 17:25
  Kate Woodward Young: So okay, so did you get the address done?
• 17:28
  Kate Woodward Young: I have to know how how how did that address?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we did.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: We ended up getting our change of address done, and everything was great.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: We got to select which street name it was on, and we were very happy.
• 17:39
  Kate Woodward Young: And then um our Did you get to come up with a street name, or you just had to pick one of the ones that you that was already there?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: We we actually um it's an interesting story because when they tried to sign us a street name, they were like, Oh yeah, it's on 192nd Street.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, oh no, that's actually Krista Lane, which is you know the name of our ministry.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then the city was like, wait a minute, I think our maps are wrong.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we started checking Google and then we slip checked our county, and nothing aligns.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then we started down this other rabbit hole that I just got off a meeting about of trying to figure out what street name is this, what address is this?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so our ELC is done, but now several other buildings on campus are like, what street is this actually on?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So luckily we have uh we have most things figured out, but we just want to make sure Shoreline's right.
• 18:34
  Kate Woodward Young: Well, we want to make sure 911 knows where to find you, right?
• 18:37
  Kate Woodward Young: Like, um especially when you're on a campus with, and and I think that's something that's uh that a lot of people need to really think about, whether you're in a strip center, uh whether you happen to be on a church campus of some sort or any sort of multi-use campus.
• 18:51
  Kate Woodward Young: Um being really clear where your location is.
• 18:55
  Kate Woodward Young: Like I've run into people who are like they have like five suites.
• 18:58
  Kate Woodward Young: They're in a like a strip center, right?
• 18:59
  Kate Woodward Young: And so they've got street or suite 102 to 105.
• 19:03
  Kate Woodward Young: Well, 105 is the main entrance, or they use the back entrance as the back entrance.
• 19:08
  Kate Woodward Young: Well, you need to make sure that 911 really does know where to find you because if they show up at 102, because that's your published, you know, EMS number, um, you know, and you everybody comes in the back, so there's nobody at suite 102, and they're at, you know, the rear entrance, that that's definitely um could be a problem.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not only your uh local fire department, but also your uh fire alarm monitoring company, making sure that aligns with what your local city has.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So those two things are very important because your automatic fire alarm is talking to the city without you.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you need to make sure that's all correct.
• 19:49
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah, didn't even think about that one.
• 19:50
  Kate Woodward Young: I'm like, oh yeah, I can tell I haven't had to do that one yet.
• 19:53
  Kate Woodward Young: All right, so if somebody's listening and they're like, they just got done listening to Matt talk, and you're like, they're like going, I don't know.
• 20:01
  Kate Woodward Young: What is the very first place?
• 20:03
  Kate Woodward Young: If somebody's thinking about doing a renovation project, what would you say is the first place they need to start before they spend any money, before they even well, like while they're still in budget phase?
• 20:14
  Kate Woodward Young: What would you say is the first thing they need to do?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing before anything starts, depending on what size your company is, you know, talk to your director about operationally, if you know, what your needs are.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially with um early childhood learning, it you know, the needs are really infants and toddlers right now in a lot of places.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And just see where your program is.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like really have that set.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then you should start with an architect.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Tour some buildings, you know, you don't have to spend a ton and jump in and go full construction documents within you know the first six months.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Take your time trying to figure out what your needs are and then what you can afford, you know.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Those are two big things.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And as you're doing all that, you really need to talk to your local city because a lot of times um the building permit is actually the easy part.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's the land use that can get a lot of people.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: So making sure you understand what the land use requirements are.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to have to go and get a special use permit that could take a year or two?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people will run into those roadblocks and then understand what the fees are with land use, because um, like ours, we had a traffic impact study um or a traffic impact fee that was almost$250,000 that we did not account for.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily luckily, we did some negotiation and reviewed it with the city, and ours came way down.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there is I've heard other cities around here that you know they're hitting four or five hundred thousand dollars for some of the impact fees.
• 21:54
  unknown: Wow.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So really understanding what your loc your local HGA is going to charge you for things.
• 22:00
  Kate Woodward Young: You know, you brought up something that I think is is an interesting point.
• 22:03
  Kate Woodward Young: And again, it depends on where you are in the country.
• 22:05
  Kate Woodward Young: But like I think the those additional studies are really, really important to understand.
• 22:10
  Kate Woodward Young: Um, because, you know, do you have environmental impact?
• 22:14
  Kate Woodward Young: Do you have traffic impact?
• 22:15
  Kate Woodward Young: Like, what are some of those others, like fees in other departments?
• 22:18
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think one of the things that I learned working with an owner who was very quick to sign leases and buy property without doing some of the research first and actually talking to planning and zoning.
• 22:32
  Kate Woodward Young: Um, I think it's also really important to have a conversation with your planning and zoning department and really make sure you know exactly who to talk to.
• 22:39
  Kate Woodward Young: Uh, because um we've watched folks that um my favorite are, well, it's always been a child care center.
• 22:45
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah, but it, you know, planning and zoning's changed.
• 22:49
  Kate Woodward Young: So um a city municipality that I lived in for 15 years, there was this one location that had always been a childcare center, but the next person who bought the property to put a childcare center in couldn't because the planning and zoning had changed and they were only allowing child care centers on four-lane roads.
• 23:05
  Kate Woodward Young: And so here they've bought a building that had been a childcare center before actually having a conversation with planning and zoning.
• 23:12
  Kate Woodward Young: And we'd love to think that realtors have a clue, but realtors if they also are not in this industry regularly.
• 23:20
  Kate Woodward Young: So again, even if they sell in that community, but maybe not that one specific municipality, like that one city.
• 23:26
  Kate Woodward Young: In other words, they're in our case, they're they they sell in Austin, Texas area, but they hadn't sold in that suburb.
• 23:33
  Kate Woodward Young: Um, they did not realize that there had been a planning and zoning change the year before.
• 23:38
  Kate Woodward Young: So, needless to say, that property owner got very big into advocacy and got very involved in the community planning and zoning committee uh because now they had a piece of property that they and there was a need, right?
• 23:50
  Kate Woodward Young: It was still in a neighborhood with a lot of young kids.
• 23:53
  Kate Woodward Young: So it was still um definitely a property that had need.
• 23:56
  Kate Woodward Young: And I don't know about you, but I don't think every licensed childcare center needs to be on a four-lane road.
• 24:01
  Kate Woodward Young: I think I kind of like them tucked it tucked into a neighborhood.
• 24:04
  Kate Woodward Young: I think that would just feel safer to me.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that you know it comes down to um making sure you hire a local architect uh architect that knows your locality, knows that AHJ to avoid some of those things.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a huge first piece for most owners.
• 24:23
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah, and don't don't sign a lease or make sure you sign a lease with provisions.
• 24:27
  Kate Woodward Young: So um, you know, we might have a guest who actually I learned a lot from him.
• 24:31
  Kate Woodward Young: He he ran 65 programs, and of those 18, they actually owned the property.
• 24:36
  Kate Woodward Young: And I learned a lot in that conversation with him about things like, you know, asking the right questions or putting the right terms in your lease.
• 24:45
  Kate Woodward Young: Like this lease doesn't take effect until all regulatory agencies approve.
• 24:50
  Kate Woodward Young: Who even knew you could do such a thing?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: You should also just just drag your architect with you to go look at buildings because they're going to tell you pretty quick if they think they can fit something in.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, for a small fee, they'll do test fits for you.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Court floor plan, yeah, that works.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you know, you're gonna save, you're gonna save a ton of money doing that, especially if you get in at least and you try to get out of it.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then attorneys involved, it's just oh yeah.
• 25:17
  Kate Woodward Young: Well, I love the idea of get your architect first because that isn't like a lot of times I tell people don't don't just go with any commercial realtor, but I love the idea of even if you find a realtor who's an industry-based realtor, I love the idea of getting your architect first, especially before you sign or buy anything.
• 25:33
  Kate Woodward Young: So well, Matt, thank you very much.
• 25:35
  Kate Woodward Young: And if anybody is ever in uh the Washington state area, please go look up Krista Ministries and King Schools because I think you will um, you know, if you if you tell Matt that you heard us you heard about him on the podcast, he might even figure out how to get you a tour of the building.
• 25:50
  Kate Woodward Young: Um might have to be after hours or before hours because you know, that whole background check and kiddos.
• 25:55
  Kate Woodward Young: But, you know, I'm sure that he would love to show you everything about their school and their program and everything they're building on their property.
• 26:02
  Kate Woodward Young: And if you ever have any sideline questions about what it means to log your property, um he probably has some stories about what it's like to have to, you know, take down some trees uh to put up new buildings.
• 26:16
  Kate Woodward Young: And so that's a whole other separate episode, but I'm sure it would be an interesting conversation.
• 26:20
  Kate Woodward Young: So with that, thank you for joining us on Childcare Conversations.
• 26:24
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• 26:30
  Kate Woodward Young: Uh, we do drop two podcasts a week, and each one of those do have a newsletter.
• 26:35
  Kate Woodward Young: Sometimes in the newsletter, we have content that's not in the podcast.
• 26:38
  Kate Woodward Young: With that, we can't wait to talk to you in a few days.
• 26:45
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