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'85 at 40: The legendary Peter King talks '85 Bears! · 2nd City Gridiron

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome into 85 at 40.
0:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Bill Zimmerman today.
0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We're still early in this process.
0:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked to Gary Fensick.
0:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked to Jim Boe.
0:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Covert, we've talked to Dan Pompey.
0:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm excited to talk to this next gentleman.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: He covered the NFL for 40 years.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody knows him well.
0:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Sports Illustrated NBC.
0:21
[SPEAKER_01]: He is Peter King.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And he joins me in our Peter King, Bill Zimmerman, how are you?
0:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Bill, great to be on with you, how's it going?
0:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going really well.
0:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope retirement's treating you well.
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we still hear you on, let's go and everything.
0:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wanted to get your perspective on the 1985 Bears with this being the 40th anniversary.
0:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to just, let's rewind the clock to 1985 where you were at News Day, you were covering the New York Giants.
0:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, the Bears were in the NFC Championship game in 84.
0:52
[SPEAKER_01]: The Giants were a good team.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: What were your thoughts on the Chicago Bears entering the 85 season?
1:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I thought entering the 85 season.
1:05
[SPEAKER_00]: They were clearly the favorites to win that year.
1:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the things that
1:13
[SPEAKER_00]: When we look back, you know, a lot of times you look back and the look is kind of gauzy and sentimental.
1:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure that the Super Bowl shuffle and all that stuff with the fridge, it all and did God.
1:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It all has it retains legendary status.
1:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would just say that there are few teams that I've ever seen in my 40 years that when you look back on them that you can't
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: overrate.
1:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is in one of them clearly is the 85 bears.
1:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason is, you know, they have the best defense that I ever saw.
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the Ravens come close at the turn of the century.
2:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But the Eagles were very good right about that time.
2:07
[SPEAKER_00]: They've been a lot of good defenses.
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen one like this one.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was very early in my career.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So that I really know, not really.
2:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have two distinct memories in that year.
2:19
[SPEAKER_00]: One is,
2:21
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of early in the year when they were just totally dominating, I was writing for newsday in New York at the time and they wanted me to cover the league.
2:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So every year, every week, I wrote a notes column about events going on around the league.
2:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So buddy Ryan, who used to work for the for the jets obviously, used to work in New York had had a lot of fun memories of those
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: years.
2:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I called the bears.
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was Brian Harlin, the PR guy put me on the phone with them.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: with Buddy Ryan, who obviously I had never met, didn't know.
2:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And he told me about this newfangled defense that they had the 46 defense.
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we just had a long conversation that day about what made his defense great, why he felt like this team was so special.
3:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really kind of a cool, that was my one memory that and then the other thing is, look, Bill, you cannot
3:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, for people who either this is only a history lesson to, you just, this team on defense, they were just a bunch of, a bunch of trained killers.
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: They just, I hate to be, I hate to be, you know, use the word like that, but they were a bunch of pit bulls.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And with that sort of attitude of that that we're going to physically dominate you and that's the way they went out and and I mean I think one of the things and before we talked I just wanted to make sure that I had my math right just think of what happened in the playoffs that year.
4:11
[SPEAKER_00]: because to me, and I was at the Giants Bears shownly and dead with playoff game.
4:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But just think of how the bears dominated the playoffs that year.
4:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Two playoff games, divisional game championship game.
4:28
[SPEAKER_00]: They won by a combined score of 45 nothing.
4:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Super Bowl, they won 46 to 10, I think.
4:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
4:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean,
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: just that sort of domination is unprecedented before or after in NFL Super Bowl history.
4:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in the Super Bowl era, the 60 years, there has never been as dominant of postseason performance as the 85 bears had.
4:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I think of the 85 bears, that's what I think of.
5:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this is my favorite stat that I don't know if anyone ever knew this.
5:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of just figured it out.
5:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not like it's deep research.
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But you talk about that dominant playoff run.
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And you talk about the Seanland and a whiff, which Sean Gale picked up and ran in for the touchdown for like a five yard, you know, punch return for a touchdown.
5:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you had Wilbur Marshall score a touchdown on a fumble return from about midfield against the Rams.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you had Reggie Phillips who was filling in for an injured Leslie Frazier got a pick six in the Super Bowl as well as they they recorded his safety so they recorded 23 points on defense and special teams and only gave up 10 where they literally the defense outscored the offense is that they went up against oh my god well that's who they were you know I I always you know I always thought that in those days.
5:54
[SPEAKER_00]: that defense, you know how Bill, you know how in today's football, that, you know, the only thing anybody cares about in Chicago, hey, Caleb Williams is going to make it.
6:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he going to be our franchise guy or are we going to turn around this offense?
6:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just telling him, there's a reason why they carried buddy Ryan off the field in the Super Bowl.
6:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The defense was more than a co-star.
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you think about the difference in football, then and now, I think of this difference.
6:29
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think about two of the great great teams in history, you know, or the 70's Steelers,
6:38
[SPEAKER_00]: in the mid 80s bears.
6:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Now the bears only proved it once and that probably will go down for a lot of bear fans is a big disappointment that they only won one Super Bowl and I don't blame for being disappointed.
6:54
[SPEAKER_00]: In my opinion, those were two teams in my lifetime that had more had the most emphasis on a great defense and they won as much as they won because of that defense at least as much or more so then because of the offense.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was going to save this for the end, but since you brought it up, let me ask about that now about the fact that they only won the one championship and 1986 they still go 14 and to obviously the giants when that the bear's got bounced by Washington and the playoffs with the disastrous Doug fluity game Gary Fensick actually told us that he thought the strike in 87.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that Ditka supported the scab players really took a lot of juice out of their sales and he never felt they were quite the same team on the other side of the strike obviously they were still good 88 they went to the NFC championship game, but he said they they've lost their swagger a little bit after the strike, but what do you think it was
8:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You just said it, sustaining that kind of defense.
8:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, after that year, they had great defenses for three or four years, but they never had the kind of defense.
8:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Bill, you described it.
8:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You said it.
8:20
[SPEAKER_00]: the scoring that they had in the postseason that year.
8:24
[SPEAKER_00]: That was an offensive defense.
8:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It just was.
8:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And you illustrated it perfectly with that statistic.
8:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you a couple of other things.
8:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm glad that Gary Fencing said that about the 87 beers because
8:43
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the chapters in my book is about that strike year, okay?
8:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that was incredible.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: For people,
8:53
[SPEAKER_00]: who don't really remember that year.
8:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It was easily the strangest.
9:01
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a fourth year I covered the NFL.
9:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Easily the strangest, most unique year by far of any of the 40 that I covered.
9:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did quite a bit of work on the first striking
9:19
[SPEAKER_00]: that the Chicago Bears played, they played at Philadelphia, and they basically went, they had to go to veteran stadium, the Bears team.
9:34
[SPEAKER_00]: They had to go there at about four o'clock in the morning.
9:37
[SPEAKER_00]: because they were worried about the teamsters and circling the stadium and not allowing people to get in.
9:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's a quirky part of the story.
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: What I also remember about that, one of the Bayer's quarterbacks in that game was the Immortal Sean Payton.
9:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Sean Payton, yep, part of the Spam Rears, as they were in that game, in that game,
10:07
[SPEAKER_00]: really wanted to show because Mike did get hated this strike, hated this strike.
10:13
[SPEAKER_00]: He thought it was crazy.
10:15
[SPEAKER_00]: The players would go on strike, but he hated it.
10:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But what he did in that game, when the players left the stadium that day and went to the airport in Philadelphia, all of the players,
10:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is something that brings that is a memory to this day for a bunch of guys on that team.
10:39
[SPEAKER_00]: There were three cold beers on every seat for the players on the way back to Chicago.
10:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was, did because way of saying, hey, listen, thanks for putting up with all these crap, you know, and look at the time bill.
10:58
[SPEAKER_00]: players knew that those games were going to count and so I'm sure that the veteran players on the bears, the real bears were bitter about it, not just because didka showed so much affection or or regard for the players who actually did show up and play.
11:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But, and it was a divisive thing for so many teams in that league.
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very divisive for the Giants.
11:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Parcels didn't want to go to work.
11:28
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't want to coach these bones.
11:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, but, but anyway, I would only say that I think the strike was a factor, but I also think Bill, I think the human body
11:41
[SPEAKER_00]: is probably not equipped.
11:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Why did the Detroit Lions fail last year at the end of the year and look like a shell of themselves against Washington in the playoffs?
11:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you why because they had so many defensive players who were beat up.
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: because they played such a physical style of defense, physical style of football in general.
12:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's really hard if you ask a lot of guys on those bear's teams.
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: They probably, they understand that your bodies, if you're going to be asked to play that way, flinging yourself around the, around the, the field year after year, it's your body's going to give you an expiration date after a little while.
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and obviously that was a relentless defense that they hit people hard and that's I think the one thing and I know we talk about it all the time how the game is evolved and change and look I'm all for safety.
12:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not like I've gone back for this series and I watched the NFL film store in the 85 bears every watch the Super Bowl and you know it sounds like kind of like the old men going all you kids don't know what it was like, but sit down and watch these games Peter.
12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It is like, you know, it's, you watch these plays with what the bears would do with these hits on these quarterbacks that were not penalized because they weren't penalized plays.
13:08
[SPEAKER_01]: They were perfectly legal plays.
13:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not only would they be penalties nowadays, that they'd be thrown out of the league.
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd be arrested with these kinds of hits.
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Wilbur Marshall just crushed.
13:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I think was Joe Ferguson in the Lions where you didn't even know if he was alive.
13:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was, it was, it was ferocious what they did to these offenses.
13:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think when we look back, you know, look, I'm 68 years old Bill, I look back and I'm not a fan of anybody so I can look back dispassionately and I have come to realize, I guess if I was bears fan, I would be unhappy they only won one, but I take the, I have the opinion.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: more of let's appreciate what we saw.
14:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's appreciate maybe you are only meant when you play like that with with the reckless abandon that the bears played with on that defense.
14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We should have won three or four Superables.
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of saying that, you should say, you know, I'm glad because we could legitimately say, we are in the argument for the best single-season team of the Super Bowl era.
14:37
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have a discussion about the greatest teams of the last 60 years, I don't know that the bears would win 85.
14:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to talk about them.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you absolutely do, they're, they're, they're right there in the conversation.
14:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And with the, the 16 and 0 Patriots loose into the giants, it opened the tour for for all these these previous teams to be considered the greatest single season ever.
15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So let, let me ask you about some of the individuals on this team.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And let me start with the individual on the team that being Walter Payton, because
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: you've done so much in terms of the history of the league and with all the all century teams and obviously being a hall of fame voter.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just curious kind of your thoughts on Walter Peyton the player is do you think he's the greatest running back of all time?
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I suspect you might be a Jim Brown guy.
15:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like where does he rank in the Pantheon and of course how important was he to to that team?
15:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You know I would I definitely would think that Jim Brown is the greatest back of all
15:38
[SPEAKER_00]: probably, but Jim Brown benefits from the fact that at the time he played, there were many linebackers, for instance, who tried to tackle him, who he was as big or bigger than, you know, and so that's the difference.
16:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even Derek Henry today,
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Derek Henry is coming up against some big dudes, and he weighs whatever he weighs, 248.
16:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But no, I'm a Jim Brown guy, but I will say this, I would say Walter Peyton and Barry Sanders, probably O.J.
16:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Simpson and I,
16:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, I have always been more of a gale sares backer to be on a list like that, even though and it's terrible.
16:36
[SPEAKER_00]: If there was any sort of medical science,
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, orthopedic science at that time.
16:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you imagine the career that Gale Sears could have had?
16:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we never saw, look, all you have to do is go back on YouTube and watch the, watch the game he had in the 60s.
17:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, it's the San Francisco 49 or 60s in the mud.
17:05
[SPEAKER_00]: In the mud of Regley Field, it was ridiculous.
17:09
[SPEAKER_00]: but but here's what I say about Walter Payton.
17:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I would I would say like in the last 50 years if you look at players
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of power and speed and his dukes, his moves in some ways, he really benefited from playing on the concrete astra terms of soldier field because he could get such sure footing on a nice day now in a slippery day, you know, all bets are off.
17:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he was so good at, you could, look, you asked, you asked Dittka about the play calling in his prime.
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And they had no fear on 3rd and 2 of running him against the brick walls defensive lines.
18:02
[SPEAKER_00]: They knew he would make those, the 3rd and 2s.
18:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And the one other thing I would say about Peyton
18:14
[SPEAKER_00]: But he played at a time, you know, a lot of his play was at a time when the bears weren't very good.
18:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, before they really got good, you know.
18:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there is such admiration for Walter Peyton for playing so hard, for so long.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: and he played in many games that were, you know, that either they didn't win or really weren't very important.
18:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is why he's such an admired player, both in the United States and certainly in Chicago, it.
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's certainly beloved.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: There are still plenty of 34 jerseys on Sunday and soldier field every day.
19:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me ask you about a couple of guys that haven't gotten into the Hall of Fame.
19:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe one day they will, maybe they won't, obviously, you long time voter with the Hall of Fame.
19:12
[SPEAKER_01]: One on offense, one on defense.
19:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Jay Hillgenberg, who was many considered with Dwight Stephenson, one of the best centers of the 80s and Wilbur Marshall on the defensive side of the ball,
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: who may not have the career-gaudy stats, he didn't pile them up, but some absolute dominant play, he could drop in the coverage, he could rush the pass or shirt tackler in the run game.
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Wilbur Marshall seemed to be kind of that Swiss army and I who could do it all on defense, and did it for Washington as well once he left Chicago.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are your thoughts on them in terms of their resumes and how they potentially stack up as Hall of Famers do you think maybe they should get in or are their reasons why they haven't made it?
19:54
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think Hillgenberg's big benefit is that, you know, I'll have the years wrong here, but there was like a 10 year period there on their great teams in the 80s.
20:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think stretching into the very early 90s where he was an absolute total Ironman.
20:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It is,
20:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It, you know, where, you know, I mean, imagine you're a center and you're playing a lot of your games on the rock hard field of soldier field and you're there every Sunday.
20:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it might have been nine, ten year, whatever it was.
20:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But he was in.
20:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I could tell you Peter, he started.
20:38
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in 1984 is the first year.
20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He started all 16 games.
20:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He played every except for two games in 1990.
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He played every game through 1992 in where he was in Cleveland.
20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So we almost never missed.
20:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is the benefit that he would have over a guy like Dwight Stevenson, because Stevenson's career was shorter.
21:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you at that position, when you start every game for a decade, and you are an extremely well-regarded player, I'm going to guess he was first
21:18
[SPEAKER_00]: four times, maybe, I don't even know.
21:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's definitely in consideration for it.
21:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, I'm not a voter anymore, Bill.
21:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I got off last year when I retired.
21:31
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think he will have his day, his consideration.
21:38
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing about now is when you are, and I think if I'm not mistaken,
21:45
[SPEAKER_00]: that these two guys would both be now in the seniors committee in that pool.
21:53
[SPEAKER_00]: There are just so many people to consider and so many different players to consider.
22:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Wilbur Marshall, if I just, this would be my guess based on just my personal regard, I think Wilbur Marshall might have a better shot.
22:12
[SPEAKER_00]: than Hildenburg.
22:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's close.
22:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It really is close.
22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me, Wilbur Marshall was absolutely key to that defense, not just in that little Super Bowl window, but for years.
22:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And then obviously later in his career, Wilbur Marshall was good.
22:37
[SPEAKER_00]: for a long time.
22:38
[SPEAKER_00]: As was Hilkenberg, but he was good for a long time, and the thing I really remember a lot about Marshall, how versatile he was, how tough he was against the run, and how many plays he made in the open field.
22:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Like to me, in my time covering it, Ray Lewis was the all-time
22:59
[SPEAKER_00]: open field tackling linebacker of everyone.
23:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But Wilbur Marshall was great for a long time in the open field.
23:10
[SPEAKER_00]: When I think of the two guys, I think of Wilbur Marshall as a little more deserving, but I think both of those guys should get their fair hearing for the hall.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: because they both, I think both of them are good candidates for the Hall of Fame.
23:31
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, interesting.
23:32
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let me just ask you two more quick ones before I let you go.
23:34
[SPEAKER_01]: First one, Jim McMahon, the team's quarterback, obviously health was always an issue for him.
23:39
[SPEAKER_01]: He could never stay on the field, probably partially for how he played.
23:43
[SPEAKER_01]: He just threw his body around with, you know, reckless abandon.
23:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But I
23:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think when you look at Jim McMahon's career stats, they're very pedestrian, there's there's not much there.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think he was a critical component of that team.
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: They pretty much never lost when he started over those three, four years.
23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: They only lost when it was Steve Fuller or Mike Tomzack or whoever else.
24:02
[SPEAKER_01]: What were your thoughts as McMahon as a quarterback when he was healthy?
24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think he was probably for his era of borderline top 10 quarterback, even though the career numbers don't back that up.
24:14
[SPEAKER_00]: with Jim McMahon, he's not a numbers guy.
24:17
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just, you know, if you want to look at a guy and, you know, judge his career of all the players I've covered over the years, that's silly to do with McMahon.
24:30
[SPEAKER_00]: McMahon's ethos, I mean, going back to, you know, he was really the last guy
24:40
[SPEAKER_00]: ever in history to negotiate a contract with Papa Bear House.
24:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And he basically said to him, because for those who don't recall, Jim McMan came in the league when the USFL was still alive.
24:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And McMan was emboldened by the fact that he thought he was going to get a rich contract offer in the USFL.
25:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So he basically, when Alice gave him a take it or leave it offer, when he was a rookie, told him to stick it.
25:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he had to end up going back to Alice and say, oh, by the way, unstick it, you know, because I need to take, you know, basically this contract.
25:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's who he was.
25:24
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't care.
25:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike Dicka didn't intimidate him.
25:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody intimidated Jim McMahon.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, to his long-term physical detriment, because I saw him two years ago,
25:41
[SPEAKER_00]: He was in Vegas that we, he went to practice one day.
25:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw him out there for Kansas City because remember, Jimmy Mann's got an incredible football life.
25:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause remember, Jimmy Mann's, I forget if he was the left or right tackle is senior year at Brigham Young.
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Andy Reed and Andy loves McMahon and Andy invited him out to practice and McMahon and I that day we're talking about you know his bears years and how he's doing now and all that and he's struggling a little bit he had a cane that day.
26:18
[SPEAKER_00]: He either had hip replacement or was going to have it I forget but anyway McMahon is the kind of guy he was a defensive player on offense.
26:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was just one of those guys, everybody on his team from the headbands that said Rosel, knowing that he was gonna get fined and all this stuff.
26:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying he didn't care, of course he cared.
26:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want people taking money away.
26:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But what meant everything, did Jim McMahon, was how his teammates felt about him.
26:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, I don't think he cared what Mike did, could thought about him.
26:58
[SPEAKER_00]: He certainly didn't care what Pete Rosell and the establishment felt about him.
27:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's one of the most interesting people in players that I ever covered.
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you mentioned that you were at the 21 Nothing Bears Giants game.
27:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just kind of want to finish with that as we conclude here with Peter King.
27:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, that was a dominant game.
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: The land and a play is famous for that.
27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But in one particular player who, you know, they don't have all the statistics back then, but watching some of these games, Richard Denne, was a...
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: absolute terror for Phil Sims in that game, but even beyond that, he forced the fumble that on Dieter Brock that Wilbur Marshall scooped up and ran 50 yards for a touchdown.
27:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the MVP is Super Bowl 20 with multiple sex.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he forced and I'm not the whole way these.
27:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he forced four or five fumbles that that playoff run had six or seven sex.
27:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Just he was an absolute menace for those three games and just you know as kind of the
28:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we talk about that that that defense and that relentlessness, I think he really embody that in that playoff run and really was the driving spirit with why why they were so good in those three games see I think the one thing about Richard didn't that.
28:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So Richard Dent was listed maybe 262 65, but I think he was heavier than that because I always thought he was a good run player and he was a terror around the edge.
28:30
[SPEAKER_00]: He, I mean, maybe he wasn't Lawrence Taylor, but I'll tell you what, he was damn close.
28:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, in the bears prime.
28:42
[SPEAKER_00]: right there in, you know, because he was his greatest in 84, 85, 86, 87.
28:48
[SPEAKER_00]: He was his greatest then.
28:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, the bears were tough enough in the middle of their defense.
28:59
[SPEAKER_00]: They had great safety play.
29:01
[SPEAKER_00]: They had Mike Singletary.
29:03
[SPEAKER_00]: They had those really good tackles interior play with
29:09
[SPEAKER_00]: but and so usually you don't have to worry with most teams you play.
29:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to worry about the guys coming around the edge and you don't have to worry also if you have guys coming around the edge.
29:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You know you usually are able to make it second and five.
29:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You can you can usually run
29:30
[SPEAKER_00]: on them.
29:31
[SPEAKER_00]: But I will just make this one point about Richard Den, that to me, I always thought, you know, look, I'm not saying that he should get credit for this, whatever, but he was one of those guys who was going to play until they kicked him out of the league.
29:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you recall, late in his career, he went to San Francisco.
29:55
[SPEAKER_00]: He was hurt that year.
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Next year, the bear has hurt a little bit.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: He played, and I'm gonna guess it was like an age 37 and 38.
30:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, for you're I'm going to be wrong in this one of his teams was Indianapolis and I forget and we played in his other year, but he was a good player as a situational rusher in those last two years at age like 37 and 38 fill an elf year.
30:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Phil, okay, Philadelphia, right, right, right, but what I'm saying is, you know, if you can just imagine a guy who still has it at a you know, and you we have to play a speed and power position imagine a guy who still has it for that long I think he was he was easily easily I think I'm not saying maybe I don't even remember what year he got him, but he was easy Hall of Fame decision for me.
30:53
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, there he is, Peter King, the legendary NFL writer, and of course you can still catch him on the Let's Go podcast, of course with Jim Gray, Max Crosby, Matthew Stafford.
31:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Peter, thanks for that conversation.
31:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed it, and best of luck keep enjoying retirement.
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a lot, Bill, all the best to you.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Good luck.
31:10
[SPEAKER_01]: There he is, Peter King, that was 85 at 40, we'll talk to you next time, Adios.