Latest / Pod Save America / “Lights, camera, impeachment!”

Transcript

“Lights, camera, impeachment!” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Later in the pod, we have Tommy's interview with veterans
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: advocate and host of the podcast Angry Americans, Paul Rykoff.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: But first, we're going to talk about the Democratic and
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Republican strategy ahead of this week's public impeachment hearings and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the latest twist in the 2020 campaign, which is Michael
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg's potential entry into the race. Also, for the first
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: hearing on Wednesday, a few of us here at Crooked
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Media will be slacking live in the old group thread.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I wrote that out last night and I was like,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: slacking live group thread, what has happened?
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: You know that thing you use at work that you hate?
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: We'll be doing that publicly. But anyway, we have fun
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: doing it during the debates.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: And now we're going to have some of your favorite
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Crooked Media characters doing it for the impeachment hearings on Wednesday.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Follow along with us.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: You can watch it at YouTube.com slash Crooked Media. And
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: you can also check out our brand new impeachment frequently
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: asked questions at Crooked.com slash impeachment. You can also subscribe
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to Brian Boitler's podcast called Rubicon.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Great episode this week. Great episode this week. It really was.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: So good. Seriously. All the impeachment news that you could
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: possibly need right here at Crooked Media. Tommy, you've got
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: some exciting news.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I do, John.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: You guys might have noticed I've been going to Iowa
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: fairly regularly over the last couple months. It's not just
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: because I am obsessed with the place and reliving glory days.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: It's because I've been working with Pineapple Street Media on
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: a limited series about the Iowa caucuses. We want to
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: talk about why the Iowa caucuses are first, how the
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: rules work, how you do well there, and really, is
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: this a good way to pick a president? So the
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: first episode comes.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Out on the 19th. We'll release one per week. for
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: four weeks.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: And then I got kind of a floating fifth that's
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: going to show up sometime in January, I think.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: But I'm very excited about this.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: It's been incredibly fun to be hanging out in Iowa
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: and not just like with candidates, but with the young
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: field staffers who are the heart and soul of these campaigns,
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: who are just inspiring people. Whenever politics is depressing, you
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: can talk to these folks and get, you know, just
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: remember why we all do this.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: So I hope you enjoy it.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I am so excited to hear this.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: Come out on Tuesdays.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: You sent us the trailer, which I guess is going
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: out this week, too.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: And just listening to the trailer, I got really excited
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: for the pod.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: And it's going to be in the Pod Save America feed.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: It'll be in the Pod Save America feed. You don't
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: have to subscribe to anything else. You just have to
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: listen to something new on Tuesdays.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: That's pretty easy, guys.
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: That's pretty easy.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Awesome. Love it. How's the show?
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: So great. Great love it or leave it with Cal Penn,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Emily Heller, and Jason Leopold from BuzzFeed who walked us
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: through the documents he uncovered from the Mueller report and
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: how they relate to what's happening in Ukraine, specifically the
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: fact that it may be that Paul Manafort is the
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: person who told Donald Trump first about the idea of
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: a Ukraine conspiracy.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Jason Leopold is one of those reporters who, like, you
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: don't know what he does for months at a time,
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: and then he's just like, ha!
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: A million documents. Really interesting. Really interesting. And some great
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: rants from Cal and Emily. It was a great episode.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Perfect. All right, let's get to the news. This week,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: the House of Representatives will hold the first public hearings
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: to help determine whether they will impeach Donald Trump. On Wednesday...
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Former acting ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor and State Department
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: official George Kent will testify. And on Friday, former ambassador
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch will testify. House Intelligence Committee Chairman
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Adam Schiff will lead the hearings, which he set up
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: to allow for 45 minutes of sustained questioning by Schiff,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Republican Devin Nunes, and their staff lawyers, as opposed to
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: the five-minute rounds of questioning we're used to in these hearings.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: What a delight that is. Thank God. That is annoying.
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: Thank you, guys.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: It's really... Love the format change. Love what they're doing
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: this season. Me too.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Guys, why do you think Democrats chose Taylor, Kent, and
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yovanovitch to go first?
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's pretty simple. Taylor specifically kept copious notes,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: has unimpeachable personal credentials. and is going to help lay
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: out the story that Democrats want to tell.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think that when you look at the
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: character of someone like Bill Taylor, right, he is a
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: State Department official. He also served in the U.S.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Army.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: He served in Vietnam. He worked for the Department of Defense.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: He's probably a Republican.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: And he can speak to the fact that his clear
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: understanding was that the security assistance money that had been
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: given by Congress to Ukraine for their national defense was
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: held up as part of a quid pro quo by
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: the Trump administration. So I'm like, this is devastating testimony.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think the important thing here, because, and
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this in a second, Republicans
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: have signaled that they're going to, one of their big
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: arguments is going to be, it's all hearsay. It's all
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: second or third or fourth hand. Well, Taylor's testimony is
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: based on what he heard directly from Gordon Sondland. Gordon
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Sondland's revised testimony is now in line with Bill Taylor's
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: before it was in conflict with Taylor's. And after Taylor
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: spoke and testified behind closed doors, Sondland then revised his testimony.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: So This whole bullshit that Taylor, you know, did not
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: talk directly to President Trump is just that because Gordon
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Sondland talked directly to President Trump and now Gordon Sondland's
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: testimony is in line with Bill Taylor's.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: And here's how Sondland explained it to Taylor. Quote, when
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: a businessman is about to sign a check to someone
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: who owes him something, the businessman asked that person to
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: pay up before signing the check. Thank you for that
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: helpful explanation, Gordon.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think... Moron.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I think these three witnesses... And look, and from Yovanovitch,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: you know, on Friday... we're going to hear about how
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: she was basically pushed out of her post because of
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theories cooked up by Rudy Giuliani and folks at
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Fox News. And I think that's going to be, and
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: like people said that have heard her testify behind closed
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: doors already, that her testimony is particularly emotional because she
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: is this sort of longstanding nonpartisan bureaucrat who served the
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: country well under both Democratic and Republican administrations. pushed out
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: of her job because she refused to go along with
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: an extortion scheme.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: It's also just worth noting that one of the 35,000,
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: you know, spin explanations the Trump administration is trying is
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: that he just cares so much about corruption. So he
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: held up this money. She will be able to talk
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: about the fact that what Trump and Rudy Giuliani and
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Gordon Sondland were doing in Ukraine was actually incredibly harmful
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: to any efforts to root out corruption in Ukraine. I
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: don't think it's like the key thing that's going to
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: influence voters in the US, but it's just You know,
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: these bullshit arguments, they stand up.
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: We knock down one by one and she will do
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: that powerfully here.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I think George Kent will do that, too.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the corruption argument is obviously silly on its face.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: The simple question you could ask is, what's another example
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: of corruption that Donald Trump has ever shown any interest
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: in stopping?
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Literally one example.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: One example.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a bunch of other explanations. I mean,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: the other thing, too, is like, you know. First, they
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: had this hearsay argument, right, because, oh, Bill Taylor never
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: spoke directly with Trump. But of course, now we have
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Sondland revising his testimony and basically completely reversing himself. And
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: he was in direct contact with Trump. And so I
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: guess they're left with this position of Gordon Sondland as
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: some kind of mastermind pulling all the strings behind the scenes.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: But of course, that doesn't work because he's getting his
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: guidance from Rudy. And where's Rudy getting his guidance from?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: One thing we know about Rudy Giuliani is he is
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: very interested in defending Donald Trump. He is also, his
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: cat whiskers, they're very sensitive. They're catching doors on either
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: side of him. And the second he feels any hint,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: he feels like he is being hung out to dry.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: He is on Laura Ingraham with a fucking iPad rolling
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: through crazy criminal texts every time.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Well, it also doesn't matter what Rudy Giuliani decides to
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: do because in the call summary, we all see that
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump said specifically, do us a favor, blah, blah, blah,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: ask for the favors and then said, contact my lawyer,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani, to figure it all out. I mean, it's just.
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: The efforts to get some distance between Trump and Rudy
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: are amazing. I also think that maybe it was Lindsey
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: Graham who started floating the Gordon Sondland is a secret
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: Democratic plant argument.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: In cahoots.
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Except he called him Sonderland multiple times.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: Gordon Sonderland, or Sondland, gave Donald Trump's inauguration a million
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: dollars as part of a long play for the Democratic
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Party to do this whole scheme.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we should. Conspiracies run deep. Yeah, we should.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: You should attack. So obviously that's silly, but you can
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: also attack him more specifically because what Graham is saying is,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: so Gordon Sondland issued his testimony that was good for Trump.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Then Gordon Sondland starts to become quite fearful that he
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: has perjured himself in a way that could lead to
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: a referral to the Justice Department. And so he revises
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: his testimony. And what Lindsey Graham is, I would call
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: it insinuating, except he's just basically saying it out loud
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: is that, oh, the only reason Gordon Sondland must have
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: done that is he was working with the Democrats to
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: come up with a damning testimony to kind of get
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: out of such a referral. And of course, there's no
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: evidence for that. It's just like Lindsey Graham wakes up
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: every morning just trying to get to the end of
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: the day.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: So a Democratic leadership aide told CNN, quote, the first
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: hour of a hearing and the first hearing has got
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: to be a blockbuster. Do you guys agree with that?
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Can we try something new here, Democrats? Let's try something
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: called lowering expectations. You're not pitching a fucking Jason Statham movie.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Here are two things we should do. The facts that
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: we already know are blockbuster. Let's get them repeated on
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: TV by credible people as a way of helping inform
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: the rest of the country. Two, the standard for impeachment
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: is not a criminal act. So let's not get sucked
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: down that rabbit hole anymore. And make it clear that
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: an abuse of power or helping to rig the next
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: election is actually an impeachable offense. Those are the two
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: big picture priorities I would love to see, which I
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: have a full list after that.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: That Exodus interview is very funny. It very much seemed
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: like that aide did a line of coke and then
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: pitched Knight Rider in the 80s. It was very much like.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: oh man, it's going to touch your fucking soul. First, boom,
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: you got Bill Taylor. But then don't worry, we're coming
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: for your heartstrings with Yovanovitch. And then once that's done,
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: the big finish. Kent's going to come in with some
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: third act fucking surprises.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: George Kent's going to save the cat.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: But anyway. Don't talk to reporters.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: This is all just fun.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: That's good advice.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Just stop talking to reporters.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: I just enjoy it. It's very silly, but it was
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: too much.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: But also, look, I mean, part of the reason this
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: blockbuster thing matters, unfortunately, is the primary goal of these
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: impeachment hearings is to communicate the gravity of Trump's abuse
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: of power and the overwhelming evidence directly to the American people,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: of course. But we also know that probably most people
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: won't be watching these and they will understand what has
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: happened in these hearings through the filter of the media.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: And I think over the last couple of days, I
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: started getting a little more anxious than usual that the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: media is going to fuck this one up. And for
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: a few reasons in the blockbuster thing speaks to it.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: One is there is this need for what is new, right?
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: What is new from these hearings? Like the smoking gun thing,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: happened a couple weeks ago now, right? We already know
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: from when all these witnesses first testified behind closed doors,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: first there were leaks. That was like the big bombshells
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: and explosive leaks and all this kind of stuff. Then
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: we all saw the depositions last week. They were less
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: newsy last week, so they weren't as big of a deal.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: And now the question is, if the expectation is that
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: these are only successful if a bunch of witnesses sort
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: of talk about a whole bunch of new information... then
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: they're not going to be successful.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Trump's not going to run in and say, you can't
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: handle the code red. You can't handle the truth or whatever. Like,
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: it's ridiculous.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I'm a little, I think that's like a fair thing
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: to be worried about. I do think that Schiff has
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: been smart. The articulation of like kind of three broad
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: principles for what they're examining was really smart.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: He's basically got three questions here that they're going to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: be asking. And he told the Republicans, I'm not going
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: to accept witnesses that don't abide by these three questions
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: that don't have to do with anything. One is, did
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Trump request investigation of his political rival from a foreign government?
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Two is, did he use his powers to pressure a
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: foreign government to do this? And three is, did he
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: try to cover it up?
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: So it's very simple. Did he solicit foreign interference? Did
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: he try to pressure people to do it? And did
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: he try to cover it up? Very simple, very important.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: And I think Setting those as the kind of framing
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: questions will allow us to see the Taylor testimony and
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: the other testimonies that follow as did they did they
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: meet that threshold of answering those questions? And I think
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: he set it up so that the answer will be yes.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would like a couple of things. One, I
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: just want them to make this story as simple as possible.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: Let's not get wrapped around the axle about what a
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: quid pro quo is or the legalities like speak English,
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: tell people why this matters. Two, just don't get sucked
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: into any GOP theatrics. Like Matt Geitz might like paint
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: his chest and like shotgun a beer.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Just ignore him.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Three, I think it's clear that they're circling, Republicans are
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: circling around an argument that says, one, the whistleblower is
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: part of the deep state and being hidden. And two,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: all this information is hearsay. We can't prove intent, right?
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: We don't know what Donald Trump really thought. I'd like
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: to hear them preempt that argument, not by downplaying the
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: testimony we have, but saying, okay, If you want to
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: talk about the president's intent, can we make Mulvaney or
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: Bolton or Mike Pompeo available? Because they clearly have spoken
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: to Donald Trump about this. Some of them were on
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: this phone call. So let's hear from them. Why are
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: you hiding them? I think the cover up here is
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: evidence of a crime to the American people. And then
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: last thing, like to your point, John, about the media filter,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: they the Democrats need a digital media. messaging plan, right?
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: The Trump war room and Trump's Twitter feed are going
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: to be blasting every good clip for them that ever happens.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: We need to be fighting that battle and not just
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: going through the CNN pundit class.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, because guaranteed Republicans are going to succeed on this front.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: When Jim Jordan goes out there and starts screaming about
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: whatever and, you know, like accuses Bill Taylor, like maybe
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: you were the one who interfered in the 2016 election,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you know? uh, the media will report that as, well,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the Republicans did get a few hits in because they,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: they caught bill Taylor off guard by mentioning some crazy
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: fucking conspiracy theory that he'd never heard of until now.
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Like that kind of stuff will happen. And so I
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: think you're right that like Democrats need a messaging machine
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: here and need to be on offense because we cannot
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: count on legacy media to do the, do what we
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: need to do here.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I also think too, like They're going to try to
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: do the circus thing that we can kind of expect.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: And then I also think a significant way in which
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: they will try to create moments that undermine the premise
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: of these hearings is we will.
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: See a lot of, so you can't say for certain.
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: We're all here. We're all gathered here. They got the
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: press corps in the back. They've got lawyers.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: You've never spoken to Donald Trump. You've never spoken to
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump.
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: And you're going to have us believe we should impeach
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: the president, having you never even spoken to the man.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: They want a Brett Kavanaugh, Lindsey Graham temper tantrum.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: They said it. Yeah, they said that the Brett Kavanaugh
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: hearings are a model.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: They're fucking casting for it. They're casting for it. They're like,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Devin Nunes isn't right for the part. We need Jim Jordan.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Jim Jordan.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Imagine bringing in Jim Jordan this week. when another person
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: came forward to say that he did not disclose information
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: about sexual abuse on the OSU wrestling team.
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: It's ride or die.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: They just don't. No, but you're right. I did like
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: in that same Axio story that someone involved in the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: preparation said that Schiff has been telling all the members
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: of the committee to be serious as fuck.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I like that too.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Which I think is great. Like, I think there's going
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: to be all these antics. The Republicans are going to
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: bring the circus. And Democrats not getting caught up in
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: their circus, not arguing back and forth with them, just
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: being very calm. And the other thing you said, Tommy,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: that I completely agree with and really hope that Schiff
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: does in his opening statement is we now know the
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: arguments that the Republicans are going to make because they've
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: telegraphed them to everyone. Rebut them in the opening statement.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I think that is such a smart thing to do.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: You're going to hear this. I mean, lawyers do this, right?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: You're going to hear this argument. You're going to hear
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: this argument. You're going to hear this argument. This is
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: why all of these are wrong. So I think that's
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: super important to do.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: And call Nellie Orr early.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: It's very important.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Just kidding.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: It's a thing that they want to do.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: And Andrea Chalupa. She was on the witness list, too.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: She cooked this whole thing up.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Random DNC staffer. I mean, we're laughing about it in
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the right-wing world. They think actually she's the cause of
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: all the interference in the 2016 election. Go look it up.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Or don't.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: They actually don't. One last thing on Democratic strategy. Two
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: potentially devastating witnesses who will not be testifying as of now.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: are former National Security Advisor John Bolton and White House
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney, who are waiting for a
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: court to rule whether they should obey a subpoena from
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Congress or an order from the White House to defy
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the subpoena from Congress. Because it could take weeks or
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: even months for that ruling, Democrats have decided to forge
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: ahead without these witnesses. Think this is the right strategy?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like I feel strongly about an alternative
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: path here. Like, I agree with pursuing the subpoenas through
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: the courts. I, you know, I was We've talked about
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: this a lot, the fact that there is inherent power
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: in the Constitution for Congress to not only issue subpoenas
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: but enforce those subpoenas. I believe in that power. I'm
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: also very skeptical that it would be politically advantageous for
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Democrats to use it. I wish I lived in a
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: world where a few years ago there was a kind
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: of hypothetical conversation amongst Democrats and Republicans and there was
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: a consensus built to reestablish congressional prerogatives and there was
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: a bill passed that said these are the steps by
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: which you can enforce a congressional subpoena. But those rules
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: don't exist, which means any attempt to enforce them right
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: now will be seen as partisan. And so I don't
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: see a better path.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know a better path either, but it really
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: bothers me that they might not testify because we saw
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: this with Mueller. The fact that Donald Trump could to
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: written questions and was never pressed on obstruction really helped
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: their case. I mean, the coverup is ongoing as far
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: as I'm concerned. And I think, you know, you're seeing
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: someone like Lindsey Graham, again, shameless lying idiot, say that
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: the Trump policy was too incoherent to have been some
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: sort of quid pro quo or extortion racket, right? They
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: said the same shit about Donald Trump Jr. during the
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: campaign that he was too stupid and didn't understand campaign
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: finance laws and thus couldn't have broken them. And it's
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: absurd on its face. And so, again, what we're hearing
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: these guys talk about is Donald Trump's intent. And now
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: I think that that's a dangerous road for us to
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: go down generally, because we're talking in terms of a
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: criminal statute already. And that's not the bar. That's not
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: the threshold you need to make in an impeachment inquiry.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: It's High crimes and misdemeanors does not require it to
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: be a crime. But then we are foreclosing our chance
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: to interview people like Mulvaney and Pompeo and Bolton who
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: understand the president's mindset because they probably had conversations with him.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: And that bothers me a lot.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: This is where I'm conflicted because, so what do you
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: want out of John Bolton and Mick Mulvaney? Well, for
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Mick Mulvaney, he's the guy because he is acting chief
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: of staff and still the director of the Office of
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Management and Budget. He's the guy that ordered the freeze
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: on the aid, right? And everyone else in the government,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the State Department, the Defense Department, none of them wanted
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: a freeze on the aid. So clearly it came from
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump and OMB. And so Mick Mulvaney will be
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: able to talk about and so would his aides at OMB,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: why the aid was frozen, when it was frozen, what
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump said, all that bullshit. John Bolton... His lawyer
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: has said in a letter last week he knows about, quote,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: many relevant meetings and conversations. So John Bolton is playing
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: some kind of a game.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: That's what I was going to raise, too. So Bolton
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: has been very hard to pin down through all of this.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: But that is such a strange thing for his lawyer
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: to hint at. The other piece of it with Bolton, too,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: is based on news reports, he was afraid of Trump
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: getting on the phone with Zelensky because he thought the
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: call would be a disaster. And then it was. Why
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: did you think the call would be a disaster?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Well, so my point is, though, like what you were saying, Tommy,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: If we wait for the court to rule. then the
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: sort of media narrative becomes a little bit more about intent.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: The Democrats need these witnesses because they feel like they
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: need to prove Donald Trump's intent. And then if the
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: court rules that they don't have to testify, suddenly it's, oh,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Democrats didn't get the witnesses they need. So I worry
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: about that. On the other hand, you're right. Like Them
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: testifying would be extremely devastating. But I think I don't
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: think we need them to prove that Donald Trump clearly
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: knew what the fuck he was doing, clearly was targeting
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: his political opponent.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he said he said call Rudy in the transcript.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, that should be all we need.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: That said, like, I just I don't think John Bolton
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: is ready to go down with the ship. And I
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: think Mick Mulvaney is an arrogant ass who's as terrible
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: as Trump and will undoubtedly do whatever it takes to
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: cover his own ass. and I really would love to
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: see them testify.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: We also might get news reports anyway. John Bolton might
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: decide that he doesn't want to testify, but he just
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: wants to say it in his book.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I also just sort of like what, what are the
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: alternatives here? It's, it's, you know, it's waiting or it's
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: sending out fucking Steny Hoyer with a pair of handcuffs
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: and like, I don't know.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: But like Mulvaney, I don't even know if that, but
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: how do you assert privilege over Mulvaney when he went
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: and did like a 40 minute press conference at the
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: podium about all the relevant facts and he admitted to
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: a quid pro quo?
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Which is apparently why Bolton's people are pissed that Mulvaney
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: joined the lawsuit because they're like, they think that Bolton
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: has a legitimate reason not to testify, which he's a
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: national security aide and had privileged conversations with Donald Trump,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: which is also why I think it's hard to do
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: the inherent contempt there too. So there was also news
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: from the New York Times over the weekend about another
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Ukraine drug deal co-conspirator. Rudy Giuliani's indicted client, Lev Parnas,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: the co-founder of Fraud Guarantee, is preparing to tell impeachment
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: investigators that at Rudy's direction, He met with Ukraine President
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Zelensky's top aide last May in Kiev to tell him
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: that unless they announced an investigation into Joe Biden, Mike
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Pence wouldn't be attending Zelensky's inauguration and the U.S. would
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: freeze military aid. They didn't announce the investigation. Mike Pence
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: didn't go to the inauguration and the military aid was frozen.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Giuliani and Parnas's fraud guarantee partner, Igor Fruman, who was
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: also at the meeting, denied that this happened. How much
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: does this matter? And should Democrats wait for Parnas to testify?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I will say only this. I do not believe Donald
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Trump will enjoy his impeachment proceedings being on television. But
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I will say the one day that will be his
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: favorite is the day that Mike Pence is implicated. That
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: will be the day he enjoys it the most.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: It's just this is so frustrating. Has there ever been
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: a more open and shut case of fraud? You know, like,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: what are we doing here? We're all we're all talking
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: about who should testify. There's like 14 star witnesses here
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: that we're going to hear from. Also, this is an aside.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Prime Minister Erdogan is coming to the White House on
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Wednesday for a meeting right after his ethnic cleansing got
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: over with. And Trump is going to hold a press
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: conference with him.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: What the fuck?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: You're right, though. As we were preparing for this today,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it's such an open and shut case. And
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the story of this impeachment is a story about Donald
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Trump and the Republican Party and what the Republican Party
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: is willing to tolerate. It's not about anything else. It's
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: not about whether Democrats are successful in holding the right
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: hearings or getting this out. The evidence is all there.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: And if Republicans, all of them, decide to protect Donald
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Trump and say that it's okay for foreign governments to
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: interfere in our elections from now on, then that's what
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the American people should know and go vote on. That's it.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: That's all this is about.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: It's how much evidence fuel is required to get fire
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: from the dwindling little bit of spark left in the
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: tiny bits of shame. inside of the Republican coalition? Like how,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: how many fucking barrels of TNT, nitroglycerin and gasoline do
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: you need to get to get an, an, an billows
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: to get fire from these people?
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: It is useful. It is useful to see finally, even
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: though we've known for a long time for most of them,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: who all of these Republicans are, right? I keep thinking
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: back to, you know, Elizabeth Warren's answer in one of
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: the town halls when she came out for impeachment and
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: she's like, I don't you know, I don't know that
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: we're going to get him out of office, but these
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: people should be on the record. Every single person who's
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: been elected to office should be on the record. And
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: that's it. Like or people who are in office like
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: glad we all know what Nikki Haley is all about
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: after this week.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Nikki Nikki Haley, the dance she is trying to do
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: where she's trying to be on Donald Trump's side by
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: attacking the people that came to her and said, we
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: think he's dangerously unfit for office. Her response to that was, ooh,
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: let's scribble down some notes from my book because that'll
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: play well on the mainstream media and it'll play well
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: with Trump because I want him to like me because
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: I'm going to run for president. Give me a fucking break.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's, it's pretty, hey, hey Nikki Haley.
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: It's so obvious.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: We get what you're doing. You're not hiding it well.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: You're not hiding it as well as you think you are.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: You can't punish someone for an attempted crime is truly,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: it's the Sideshow Bob defense. You don't get a Nobel
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Prize for attempted chemistry.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I can't believe Nikki Haley used that.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: People thought that she was a serious person and she's
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: using the attempted crime defense?
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: And did she also trot out the impeachment as the
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: death penalty?
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, she did.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: It's not. It's being fired.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Honestly, the death penalty is the death penalty.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we still have that.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: The death penalty is the death penalty. It's actually also
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: in the Constitution under treason.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: It also is very revealing your relationship to power. and
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: what you think about power that you think that losing
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: it is the death penalty. Very revealing about how Nikki
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Haley sees the world. Very revealing. All right, let's talk
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: about the Republican strategy, which, as of this recording, is
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: based on the argument that, according to all the publicly
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: available evidence, Trump did nothing wrong. That's basically what it is.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: And all the witnesses who testified that Trump did do
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: something wrong... don't have firsthand knowledge of what happened, which
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: was just, you know, the normal foreign policy of a
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: president who's passionately opposed to corruption.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: And who's constantly telling people to call his personal lawyer.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Right. Even, even, he's always passionately opposed to corruption, even
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: if that corruption happens to involve one of his potential
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: opponents in 2020. That was the new one over the,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: some of them, John Kennedy, the senator from Louisiana on
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: the Sunday shows. Well, there's a difference. Like, yeah, he
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: cares about corruption and it would be bad if he
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: targeted corruption because it was his political opponent. But what
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: if the corruption just involves someone who happens to be
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: his political opponent?
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: But it is like, it is, you know, you see
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: what they're doing. What they're basically saying is you will
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: be unable through the record, be able to prove the opposite, right?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: It is very hard to show that Donald Trump was
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: going after Burisma because he cared about corruption versus he
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: was going after corruption because he cared about Burisma. That's
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: their theory, that it's hard to make that distinction from
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: the record of Trump's conduct.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: And that is just very silly because it is very easy.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: It's very easy to show that he targeted that company
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: purely because of Joe Biden. And one reason it's easy
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: is he and Rudy Giuliani have been telling us that
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: he wanted to investigate the Bidens for months, for months. Anyway,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: so to that end, the Republicans asked to call witnesses
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: like Hunter Biden and a bunch of characters that star
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: in right-wing conspiracy theories about who really interfered in 2016,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: and the whistleblower himself, all of which were quickly rejected
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: by Adam Schiff, which he has the power to do. Guys,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: what else does that list of witnesses tell you about
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the Republican strategy for these hearings? What was your reaction
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: to the witness list? I mean, I think they're.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Following, you know, the kind of Hugh Hewitt guidance, which
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: is if this is about a specific set of criminal
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: acts around ukraine it looks very very bad if we
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: can turn this into a circus about ukraine 2016 russia
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: muller dnc nelly or whatever you want if we can get.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Jim comey lisa page.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah Throw everything into the pot.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Their standard is basically that the only people who can
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: speak honestly about anything are right wing Republicans that support
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: That is the standard.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: So Donald Trump, the hard thing for Republicans is Trump.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Will only accept you as on his team if you
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: say the call was perfect, he did nothing wrong. Like
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: that's the standard he wants. He asked for that last
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: night again.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: On Twitter.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: The Republicans generally, I think, are going to do what
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: they've been doing forever, which is try to figure out
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: all the partisan leanings of the whistleblower or anyone else
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: involved and attack their character, call them partisan, find some
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: bullshit thing to just hang their defense on and go
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: from there. And then generally, even the most reasonable Republicans,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: like the Will Hurds of the world, who are generally
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: reasonable people, are just going to attack the process as
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: somehow partisan, even though impeachment is a partisan exercise.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: It just is.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: It's a political determination.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. If you criticize Donald Trump, you're not on
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump's team. And if you're not on Donald Trump's team,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: your criticism can't be taken seriously. That's it.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: That's the whole thing. And that's the game they're playing
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day here with counting the votes, right?
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: it's like, I keep thinking about Justin Amash, right? So
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: no one counts Justin Amash joining the Democrats as bipartisan
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: because he was purged from the Republican Party. And he
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: was purged from the Republican Party because he said he criticized,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: he dared to criticize Donald Trump. So if you dare
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: to criticize Donald Trump, you're a never Trumper. Thus, you're
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: not taken seriously. The only people who are taken seriously
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: are the people that are a hundred percent on team Trump.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Now you even, Donald Trump said last night on Twitter again, um,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Republicans don't be let into the fool's trap of saying
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: it was not perfect, the call, but it is not impeachable. No,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: it is much stronger than that. Nothing was done wrong.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: So he, but basically Donald Trump saying, I will warrant
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: no criticism of me or you will be on the
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: never Trump Democrat media site.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I will brook no dissent. It's also, but it is,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: you know, it is his, it is the only lesson
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: that he has absorbed from his time in politics and
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: in public life, which is, uh, if you show any weakness,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: if you admit to any faults, suddenly you're susceptible to
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: political gravity. Look, he's been like this from the beginning.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: He's been the roadrunner running across the ravine. And his
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: message to Republicans over and over again is, if you
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: don't look down, we'll make it to the other side.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: The second you look down, we'll all fall. And I
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: don't know how wrong he is.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: No, it's gotten him this far.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: I think the most telling piece of advice I've seen is,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: Mitch McConnell is telling his members, reportedly, according to the
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Washington Post, that he's just saying, calibrate your comments to
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: fit your own politics.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: Like, just wait. Say as little as possible. Kevin McCarthy
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: is saying, lean in, full defense, get his back.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Full Brett Kavanaugh.
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: I just ask you guys, whose political judgment would you trust?
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: Mitch McConnell or Kevin McCarthy?
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean, it's right. Like, Mitch McConnell is
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: giving them better advice here.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: As we say all the time here, on Pod Save America.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Always trust Mitch McConnell.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Tie your boat to the Mitch McConnell cruise line. I
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know how to do boat metaphors.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I liked it. I do think there's something interesting in
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: both sides, Democrats and Donald Trump, saying over and over again,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: read the transcript. Because I do think it's telling of
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: where Trump and the Republicans are trying to go to, right?
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Which is, it's not just You know, these allegations aren't true.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: They made them up. The process is bad. It's the
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: the evidence that is publicly available that they cannot refute.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: They are basically saying, just don't believe it's bad. It's
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: just not bad what you're doing.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: And so I do think one of the things that
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: would help Democrats in these hearings. And I think, you know,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: we have to carry this case is is explain why.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: this is an impeachable offense. Explain why it is. Because,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: you know, and I heard Ezra Klein on his podcast
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: talking about some poll they did where, like, a far
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: too high a percentage of people said that presidents targeting
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: political rivals is the usual course of business, right? And
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: we've seen this in our polling and we've seen this
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: in other places. Like, people think government is corrupt. People
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: think politicians are corrupt on both sides, right? We can
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: argue that it's not true. We believe it's not true.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: We know it's not true. But this is what people believe.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: And so, the hurdle here, not for the Republican base,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: they're fucking gone, right? Their minds are not going to
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: change by this. But for independents and swing voters and
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: everyone else is, why was this so unusual and why
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: does it rise to the level of an impeachable offense?
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: What is the dangers of the president of the United
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: States being able to bully a foreign government into interfering
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: in the election? It seems pretty obvious, but we got
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: to remind people of that.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Yovanovitch is so important. I also just, back to the
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: transcript point, I do think it's worth unpacking a little
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: bit the difference between what it means when Democrats say
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: go to the transcript and what Trump means. What Democrats
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: mean is the evidence is as plain as plain could be.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: The proof is here. We all know it. The Republicans
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: know it. The media knows it. We all know it.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: When Trump says read the transcript, it's a bluff. He
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: is saying read the transcript to people who won't, right?
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: He's saying basically, I know that there's two kinds of people.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: There's my backers who will read the transcripts and then
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: lie to the audience. And there are people that take
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: read the transcript as evidence that In the actual materials,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: there's a sculptory facts. There's proof that he really didn't
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: do anything, that it's all a big hoax. And I
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: will go to Sean Hannity and I will go to
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: others and they will explain to me what's going on here.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: And they will surely say the same, that the people
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I trust who look at the transcripts will give it
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: to me straight. And they will tell me that Donald
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Trump did nothing wrong. One is trying to get people
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: to understand the truth and the other is relying on
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: a media echo chamber, a propaganda apparatus to lie to
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: people who do not have the time or wherewithal to
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: read hundreds of pages of transcript, which is the vast
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: majority of people.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, but it does go back to, you know,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump's belief here, or what he keeps saying, that
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons the transcript wasn't problematic for him
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: is that Joe Biden and Hunter Biden engaged in some
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: sort of corrupt activity in Ukraine. And I do think
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: these three witnesses this week will be helpful in proving that, again,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: we've said this a million times, Joe Biden was carrying
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: out the foreign policy of the United States, the foreign
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: policy of the European Union, And basically, the entire world,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: by the way, the bipartisan foreign policy in the United States,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Republicans wanted this too, in asking Ukraine to fire this prosecutor,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: who everyone in the world believed was corrupt, except for
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: the prosecutor. And maybe the prosecutor believed it too. And
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: that by firing that prosecutor, again, Joe Biden was increasing
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: the chances of that the new prosecutor would investigate his
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: son's company.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Democrats are battling the Republican Party. We're battling cynicism generally,
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: that we think all politicians are scum. And we are
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: battling the right-wing Fox News, Rupert Murdoch media infrastructure. Ben
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Rhodes and I talked to former Australian Prime Minister Kevin
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Rudd for Pod Save the World this week. And he
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: was talking about how politics in the U.S., the U.K.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: and Australia are some of the most fucked up these days.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: And wouldn't you know it, Murdoch has huge media footprint
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: in all.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Of those places.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, no. And again, in our polling showed this.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: We talked about this last week. No one should expect
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: any Republicans to change their mind over the course of
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: these hearings.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Like we I mean, and not only that, we should
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: expect that Donald Trump's base will probably rally around him.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: even more than they were before. I mean, we saw
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: it in our polling. Impeachment is doing more than anything else,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: is making the environment even more polarized than it already
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: has been. You've got like 94% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: independents who are for it, and 94% of Republicans and
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Republican-leaning independents against it. That's where we are, and I
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: don't expect that to change all that much. All right,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: let's talk about 2020. Just when we all thought the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: field of Democratic candidates was finally winnowing, We found out
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: on Thursday that former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: might enter the primary after he already declared in March
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: that he wouldn't run. Bloomberg, who's worth over $ 50 billion,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: would self-fund his campaign and skip the first four primary
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: states of Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina to
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: focus on the Super Tuesday states in early March. Let's
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: start with this. Why do we think that Bloomberg changed
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: his mind?
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: So I was really thinking about that. I was thinking
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: about what What has changed? What is he noticing in
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: this field that would lead him to reach a different
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: conclusion than he otherwise reached? And we should start by
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: saying that he's not Howard Schultz. He's running in the
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Democratic primary, right? So he's making a decision to say,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try to fight for my ideas within
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: the coalition that will determine who faces Donald Trump.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: And in fact, he's promised not to run as an
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: independent third party candidate.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: So good for him. Good for him. But I was
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: honestly struggling to understand how he could see that there's
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: an opening. I find it really confusing. confusing if he
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: thinks he can win. I find it less confusing if
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: he thinks that there's an important point of view that
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: needs to be represented. Because I was looking at, I
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: was thinking like, what's missing here? And I think about
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: what's made some of the debates very frustrating. And I
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: think what it is, is that we see a lot
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: of people talking at cross purposes. I think we see
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: like a lot of very specific debates serving as kind
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: of watchwords for ideology without having a larger ideological conversation.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: And we end up with candidates talking past each other.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: So Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders defend Medicare for all
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: as the bold and brave and morally courageous and right
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: thing to do. And then it's attacked as costing too much,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: or Biden has a kind of ghostly refrain that's a
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: bit passive aggressive about how it's throwing out Obamacare and
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: not particularly honest either. And then I think you have
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of other candidates who have been, I think,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: for a variety of reasons, afraid to articulate an ideological alternative.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: They will argue against Elizabeth Warren, they will argue against
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders, but they understand that there's a political price
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: they're not willing to pay to actually come out and
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: say whatever they believe, whether it's that Medicare for All
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: is unachievable or too far to the left, whether it's
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: the fact that decriminalizing the border isn't the right thing
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: to do, whatever the position is, we've seen a real
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: fear on the part of other Democrats to articulate a
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: center-left consensus-building approach. And Pete has tried to do something
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: like that without actually articulating an ideological vision. I think
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Kamala's been afraid to do that. Cory Booker's been afraid
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: to do that. The only one who has, I think,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: articulated a version of what Bloomberg would argue for is
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Amy Klobuchar. And she's at two or three percent nationally
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: and four or five percent in Iowa. What do you think?
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: What do you think changes?
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think that there's a lot of folks
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: who are counting on Biden to be their representative of
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: a more moderate place in this primary. And I think
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: there's probably a lot of people who see Elizabeth Warren's
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: rise as troubling for a lot of reasons. You could
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: argue maybe if you're a billionaire that you're worried about
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: the wealth tax. You could just argue that it's It's
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: coming from a better place, which is he's worried she
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: can't win.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: I don't really know.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: My gut reaction to anyone jumping in the race at
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: this late stage is to feel a little bit frustrated.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: I think we have some great candidates. Some have some
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: real weaknesses. But, like, you know, I wish everyone had
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: just done this a little earlier. I also think that
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: I'm a little frustrated that Steyer and Bloomberg can only
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: do this because they have so much money. I think
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: that's sort of a terrible story about our politics and
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: the party. But, you know, like, look... We should all
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: wait and see if he actually gets in. Some recent
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: polling suggests that it will be very difficult for him.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Bloomberg is also floating a strategy of skipping the four
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: early states, which I guess means just like shitloads of
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: ads to get you delegates on Super Tuesday, which seems difficult.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: I also think there's no way he's getting in the
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: November debate. To get into the December debate, he needs 200,000
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: donors and a bunch of 4% in four polls or more,
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: or like two in an early stage showing 6%, which
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: is challenging. But look, stepping back, Mike Bloomberg has put
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: a ton of money in support of ads for the party.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: He's been good on climate change. He's been good on guns.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: So I'm not going to jump on him yet, but
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: I'm curious to see where this goes.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I mean, Said this before, the emotion that
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: is driving this entire election on the Democratic side is fear,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: fear that Donald Trump is going to win. And Mike
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg and enough other people and Mike Bloomberg being very
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: wealthy and running a very large operation there does a
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: lot of polling and is worried that Joe Biden is
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: not going to be able to win. partly because not
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: because of his stances, but because, you know, we've all
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: seen him in debates not be so strong. And so
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: we've had the same worry ourselves about Joe Biden. He's
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: worried about Elizabeth Warren because we have over recent weeks
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: really talked ourselves all into believing that Medicare for all
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: is like the be all and end all. And it's,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: you know, going to be poison in a general election, which,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: as we've talked about, there's polling that does show that
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: it can be a challenge. But I think it's overstated
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: what a challenge it is. But again, that's one of
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: his concerns. And I think he thinks Bernie Sanders is
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: in that crew, obviously, as well. He's also just very
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: fiscally conservative and doesn't want either of those people to win, right?
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, Pete Buttigieg, who's been rising
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: in the polls, also might have some, you know, they
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: look at that and they say, well, he doesn't have
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: as much experience and he's having trouble with voters of color,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: though I don't know that Mike Bloomberg has an easier
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: time with voters of color either. So those are all
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: the reasons, right? So it's like, it's weird. Like, on
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: one hand, I sort of get people looking at the
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: field and having some measure of anxiety about winning. We
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: all have it. Let's be honest, right? Like even though,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: even if we have candidates who we believe can win,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: we still have that anxiety. So I get that. The
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: answer to the anxiety for all these people is like,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I'm going to jump in, you know, that part I
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: don't get as much. It's like, why are you, it's like,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: I get your anxiety. Why are you the answer?
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting though. I like, I'm just
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: trying to find a way to make sense of it.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: And I do think that Biden has been too inarticulate
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: to defend a kind of center left consensus building practical
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: kind of governing. And Mayor Pete has been too articulate
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: to do it because he understands that that's just not
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: where the mindset of voters is right now, even as
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: he's trying to strike a balance between kind of talking
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: about pragmatism, talking about unity without seeming like a wet blanket,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: raining on the kind of bold progressive vision. And what
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: that means is, and then I think a bunch of
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: other candidates are afraid to have an ideology at all
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: and are kind of been all over the place. And
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: so I do think that no one has been on
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: that stage just saying, just sort of being unabashedly moderate,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: or a few of them, or maybe you've had them
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: come and go, Bullock came and went, Delaney came and went,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: didn't do a good job of it. So I kind
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: of understand someone who believes in that worldview, not seeing
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: it faithfully represented. That said, what is the harm of
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: it being represented and maybe being rejected? I don't really know.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: What is the value of it? I don't really know.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: But I guess like that to me 30,000-foot view is,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: I think, what someone like Bloomberg would see as missing,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: someone smartly articulating his worldview.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think Bloomberg probably has a better claim
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: or better answer to the question, why you, than some
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: of the others, right? He ran the biggest city in
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: the country. I think it's a little harder for a
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Steyer or some of these others.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think, I mean, just we've done this
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: with all the other candidates, so strengths and weaknesses, you know,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: on the strength side for Bloomberg, money, right? Because it
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: does cost quite a bit of money, and also it
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: would be like he against Donald Trump. There would be
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: unlimited cash that he could have. And like a ready-made team.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: And a ready-made team. Name ID. People know him. He's
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: a record as a politician who was elected three times
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: and a businessman. He's done quite a bit of work
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: electing Democrats, fighting climate change, trying to pass gun control. Weaknesses.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: He's 77, right? Doesn't really solve any kind of age problem.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: In billionaire years, though, that's a normie 62.
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: He's had some extremely controversial, and I would say bad
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: policies as mayor, like stop and frisk, which was ruled
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: unconstitutional because it was targeting people of color. He's had
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: some pretty problematic statements about women in the Me Too movement.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: He is fiscally conservative. And look, there's been a lot
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: of attention on how he doesn't like the wealth tax,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: but he's fiscally conservative. Like when Bill de Blasio proposed
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: an income tax surcharge on people making over $ 500, 000 a
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: year in New York, and he said it was the
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: worst idea he'd ever heard of, right? Like he's not just...
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Like some of these other moderate Democrats were like, I'm
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: going to repeal the Trump tax cuts and raise taxes.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I just don't want to go as far as the
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: wealth tax. Like he's he's fiscally conservative. And I do
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: wonder what the constituency is in the Democratic Party or
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: the country for someone who, on one hand, has a
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: policy like I'm going to take away your soda. On
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: the other hand, but I don't want to raise taxes
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: on rich people. It's a pretty narrow constituency.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: We know the answer, right? Sort of socially liberal, fiscally
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: conservative people are very popular on the kind of.
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: Morning Joe set?
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Right, on the kind of elite media conference circuit. They
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: are less extant in the rest of the country.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: I think Bloomberg has to bet. I think that if Bloomberg.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: enters and gets through this primary, then he will have
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: succeeded in making an electability case for himself more than
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: he will have had a conversation about any of these
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: other policy areas, Medicare for all or anything else. And
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: I think that would be my bet if I were him.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And it does, like you said, Tommy, it does
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: sort of just bum me out in general about our
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: campaign finance system that, you know, there's plenty of other
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: moderate candidates out there. And you're Michael Bennett's, you're Steve Bullock's. And, like,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: if they had $ 50 billion, maybe they'd probably get more attention. Not, like,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: the poor moderates, but just, like, the fact that both–
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: and Tom Steyer is pretty progressive, right? But, like, the
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: fact that Tom Steyer and Michael Bloomberg are in this
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: race and getting attention purely because they were successful in life,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: which great for them for being successful. But it's, like,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: that success then buys you political power, right? Like, I
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: know that's not a new thing, but it just bums
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: you out.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: Tom Steyer is able to be a part of the
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: debates because he ran, I think, $ 50 million worth of ads.
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: And it boosted himself in the polls a little bit.
• 45:32
  Speaker 6: It did.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: And I will say, though, both Steyer and Bloomberg have
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: another problem, which is, yeah, they can use their finances
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: to get into the debate. But then, of course, once
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: they're on that debate stage, they will find that their
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: position is very well represented. Tom Steyer sounds a lot
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: like Elizabeth Warren. And his case is, you want Elizabeth
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Warren's policies, but coming from the mouth of a male billionaire,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: come out and say it, but of course he won't.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: He just kind of articulates a similar vision. Mike Bloomberg's
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: positions are well represented, I think, by Amy Klobuchar and
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: several others who have not been able to make it
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: onto the debate stage. So it's a bit frustrating that
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: he wouldn't view this as an opportunity to help boost
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: one of the people that shares his worldview as opposed
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: to thinking he has to solve it himself.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: It will unite all the other candidates around attacking him.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: We literally already had a New York mayor in this
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: race and now he's gone.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Already have a billionaire, already have a New York mayor.
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: One thing before we just go to the interview, today's
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: Veterans Day. And I just, a personal privilege.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: Here, I would just want to recommend that everyone read
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: an amazing New York Magazine piece by someone we used
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: to work with named Terry Zuplat. The article is The
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: Endless Recovery from the Endless War. It's about Corey Remsburg,
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: who a lot of you probably remember from the State
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: of the Union speech when Obama lifted up his story
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: and there was a two-minute ovation. But it's an incredible
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: piece about there's no Hollywood recovery from a traumatic brain injury.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: It is a decade of, of struggling and challenge. And
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: it's an incredibly well done poignant piece. And Terry is
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: a great person. And Corey Remsburg is an American hero
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: and everyone should read it.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Yes. Second, that for sure.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Well, I should third it. I'm going to sit here
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: and be a, not thirding it. I don't read it.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: My view caught counterpoint.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: When we come back, we will have Tommy's interview with
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Paul Rykoff.
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: I am excited now to be joined by the host
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: of the Angry Americans podcast.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: He is a U.S.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Army veteran, a veterans advocate, and the founder of the
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, Paul Rykoff.
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: How are you doing, buddy?
• 47:35
  Speaker 6: I'm good, man. I'm good, man. Thank you for having me.
• 47:37
  Speaker 6: I'm in a bunker behind Penn Station that used to
• 47:41
  Speaker 6: be Jeff Buckley's writing studio. This is where you guys
• 47:44
  Speaker 6: hooked me up so we could avoid Trump's invasion of
• 47:47
  Speaker 6: New York that's happening right now.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: Maybe it's a fitting place to do this interview.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Indeed it is.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: Indeed it is.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: So let's start with the reason Trump is visiting New
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: York today. So today is Veterans Day. So, Paul, you
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: served in Iraq. You started a nonprofit that was designed
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: to improve the lives of veterans and their families. You
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: have left that nonprofit now, but it's been a powerful
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: organization for 15 years.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: What does this day mean to you?
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: And then in your view, what's the best way to
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: actually honor America's veterans and their service?
• 48:22
  Speaker 6: Well, I appreciate you having me on, man. You and I,
• 48:24
  Speaker 6: I think, crossed paths a number of times when you
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: were working in the Obama administration because we were working
• 48:29
  Speaker 6: on stuff like the GI Bill and repealing Don't Ask,
• 48:32
  Speaker 6: Don't Tell and a lot of work that was really
• 48:34
  Speaker 6: historic and important. And I think that the through line there, Tommy,
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: is that it was nonpartisan. You know, veterans were generally
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: a nonpartisan issue that we could drive forward. And Veterans
• 48:44
  Speaker 6: Day is supposed to be nonpartisan. It's supposed to be
• 48:47
  Speaker 6: the day we put our politics aside, that we're all united.
• 48:50
  Speaker 6: We come together in this sense of cohesion and community.
• 48:53
  Speaker 6: And it really kind of represents a rare time on
• 48:56
  Speaker 6: the American political calendar where everybody kind of puts their
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: guns away and we all get together and support and
• 49:01
  Speaker 6: honor our veterans. Today, in typical Trump fashion, that's gone.
• 49:05
  Speaker 6: Because he decided to show up for this parade in
• 49:08
  Speaker 6: a very political way. And in my view, it politicizes
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: an event that is usually immune to it. So I've
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: decided to boycott the parade. I've been going to the
• 49:16
  Speaker 6: parade ever since I got home from Iraq in 2004
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: because I don't want to be politicized. He frequently politicizes
• 49:24
  Speaker 6: the military and our veterans ever since before he got elected.
• 49:28
  Speaker 6: But this is really the apex of it. And it
• 49:30
  Speaker 6: just reeks of politics and I'm not going to have it.
• 49:32
  Speaker 6: So I'm not going to be there. I know plenty
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: of folks will be. Many of folks aren't. And I
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: think that cuts to the core of this. Like if
• 49:38
  Speaker 6: he wasn't there today, it wouldn't be an issue. It
• 49:40
  Speaker 6: would be about us. But like so many other things
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: in this administration, it's about him. So Trump will benefit,
• 49:46
  Speaker 6: veterans will suffer, and the unity of America will suffer,
• 49:50
  Speaker 6: very much like most other shit for the last three
• 49:52
  Speaker 6: years since he's been president. So it's my way of
• 49:54
  Speaker 6: taking a stand. But I hope it jumpstarts a conversation
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: about what this means, and more importantly, about how he's
• 49:59
  Speaker 6: often tried to hijack us for political purposes.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, so to give our listeners a little
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: more backstory.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: So You know, there's this parade in New York City,
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: but historically presidents don't attend because, as you said, you
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: don't want to politicize the event. It's also important to
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: note for folks that there's a lot you can do
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: in and around Washington, D.C.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: On Veterans Day.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: There is a wreath laying ceremony at the Tomb of
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: the Unknown Soldier at Arlington National Cemetery, which I don't
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: believe Trump has attended. So he's breaking a bunch of
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: traditions by attending this parade in New York, but not
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: doing things he could or should be doing in D.C.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: It's just very it's disappointing.
• 50:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, disappointing to say the least. I mean,
• 50:35
  Speaker 6: he's also screwing up traffic and pissing off all of
• 50:38
  Speaker 6: New York City, which doesn't help veterans either, right? I mean,
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: so it's kind of a trend line here. But importantly,
• 50:45
  Speaker 6: the history of the Veterans Day parade is, I think, important.
• 50:48
  Speaker 6: You know, Veterans Day started on Armistice Day after the
• 50:50
  Speaker 6: end of World War I. It was on the 11th
• 50:52
  Speaker 6: day of the 11th month. And the parade's supposed to
• 50:55
  Speaker 6: start on the 11th minute of the 11th hour. So
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: it celebrated the end of war. It was a time
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: of coming together. But then for a long time, especially
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: in New York, it was wrapped up in the politics
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: of Vietnam. So for a long time, Vietnam veterans had
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: to stage kind of a guerrilla march because they weren't
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: welcomed by the city. They famously had to march across
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: the Brooklyn Bridge and past City Hall because the mayor
• 51:16
  Speaker 6: wouldn't greet them. So there's decades of that kind of
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: calcification of politics. And only after 9-11 have we finally
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: made it an event of unity. And it's been that
• 51:24
  Speaker 6: way really for the last 15 years or so until today.
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: which in typical Trump fashion is kind of invaded with
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: the politics and partisanship and tone and nastiness of what
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: has become the Trump administration's view on a lot of issues.
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: But I think especially on veterans and military affairs, we're
• 51:40
  Speaker 6: not immune to it. You know, we'd like veterans to
• 51:43
  Speaker 6: be above politics. But the reality is they are part
• 51:45
  Speaker 6: of politics and politics are a part of us, just
• 51:48
  Speaker 6: like every other issue in America and maybe even more
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: central because it's about our values. It's about honor. It's
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: about integrity. And it's about our national defense and things
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: like nukes. So the stakes are way higher on everything
• 51:59
  Speaker 6: having to do with our issues, I think, than most others.
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: So I should point out that you're an independent. Obviously,
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: people have heard you talking about Trump the last few minutes,
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: but you've also criticized Obama when he screwed up at
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: the VA or on veterans policy.
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: Generally or other issues. And that's just context.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: And I think it's relevant because I think you're an
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: honest broker on this stuff. And I also think that
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: you know, veterans policy or VA reforms are not really
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: getting much attention in the election. I guess nothing is
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: except for impeachment and then, you know, the ongoing wrestling
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: in the Democratic side. But, you know, we have two
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: veterans running right now, right? We have Tulsi Gabbard and
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: Mayor Pete Buttigieg in the race. Has anyone proposed policies
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: that you think are interesting that you want to highlight?
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: Or on the flip side, is anyone really like failing
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: to put forward a vision?
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: I think that they're all failing. I mean, to cut
• 52:48
  Speaker 6: back to, you know, the question, I mean, I have
• 52:50
  Speaker 6: been an independent my whole life, really, and my organization
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: was independent. And I think I represent what is a
• 52:57
  Speaker 6: huge part of this electorate, and especially within the veterans community.
• 53:01
  Speaker 6: There are a lot of people who are unaffiliated, who
• 53:03
  Speaker 6: are independent. That's what my podcast is about. Angry Americans
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: is about the angry independents, the angry middle, the people
• 53:08
  Speaker 6: who feel unrepresented. In many ways, we'd love for, you know,
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: angry Americans to be for independents and unaffiliated. It's what
• 53:16
  Speaker 6: Pod Save America has become for the left, because I
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: think we need a place where we can come together
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: and have a sense of community and hold people accountable.
• 53:23
  Speaker 6: And the short answer is nobody's got a vision. Obama,
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: I think, failed in many areas. And I was probably
• 53:28
  Speaker 6: a real pain in the ass to you and a
• 53:30
  Speaker 6: lot of other people who worked in the administration. I
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: think if you look back on the VA, it was
• 53:34
  Speaker 6: an opportunity for him to prove that Democrats could make
• 53:37
  Speaker 6: government work in a very powerful way. And when it
• 53:39
  Speaker 6: works well, it's the GI Bill. When it works poorly,
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: it's the VA scandal at Phoenix and the resignation of
• 53:46
  Speaker 6: Eric Shinseki, the VA secretary, which might have been the
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: only cabinet secretary to resign in scandal during the entire
• 53:53
  Speaker 6: Obama administration. So I think it's low-hanging fruit that both
• 53:58
  Speaker 6: sides tend to miss. And right now, Trump talked a
• 54:00
  Speaker 6: lot about history today, but he didn't talk about tackling
• 54:03
  Speaker 6: the suicide rate, which is taking 20 veterans every day.
• 54:06
  Speaker 6: He didn't talk about VA reform in any kind of
• 54:09
  Speaker 6: substantive way. He didn't talk about making the VA more
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: inclusive to women. He didn't even talk about really popular
• 54:14
  Speaker 6: issues like cannabis for veterans. So he missed a chance
• 54:17
  Speaker 6: to lay out and articulate a strategy for veterans. And
• 54:20
  Speaker 6: I think the other candidates have an opportunity to do that.
• 54:23
  Speaker 6: I know a couple of them rolled it out today.
• 54:24
  Speaker 6: But I think the Democratic Party has failed to really
• 54:27
  Speaker 6: articulate what is the Democrats' plan for veterans and who
• 54:31
  Speaker 6: is their leader. Like if Trump is the de facto
• 54:34
  Speaker 6: leader right now for the Republicans on veterans for a
• 54:36
  Speaker 6: long time, maybe it was John McCain, maybe it was others.
• 54:39
  Speaker 6: But now it's Trump. On the other side, who's it
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: going to be? And I think that's yet to be seen.
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: It might be Pete Buttigieg. It might be Tulsi Gabbard.
• 54:46
  Speaker 6: It might be somebody the Democrats are not that thrilled
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: with being their leader on veterans issues. So I think
• 54:52
  Speaker 6: the constant issue, and especially now, Tommy, is going to
• 54:54
  Speaker 6: be that it's a jump ball. And it could be
• 54:56
  Speaker 6: very politically powerful because veterans are also the ultimate populist issue.
• 55:01
  Speaker 6: If you get veterans right, it can really cascade in
• 55:04
  Speaker 6: powerful political ways. And if you get it wrong, it
• 55:07
  Speaker 6: can be a third rail. We've said for a long
• 55:09
  Speaker 6: time there's kind of three groups of people in politics
• 55:11
  Speaker 6: you can't piss off, babies, puppies, and vets, right? You
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: got to always do right by babies, puppies, and vets.
• 55:18
  Speaker 6: And if you do right by them, you get a
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: lot of political capital. If you do wrong, you're going
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: to pay for it. And that's what I hope we'll
• 55:23
  Speaker 6: see over the next couple of months and all the
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: way through the elections.
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: And I would say of your three categories, only one vote. So,
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: you know, do with that information, if you will.
• 55:31
  Speaker 6: But cutting to Trump's like Trump's mastery of this.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 55:34
  Speaker 6: On some levels, he got it right in terms of populism.
• 55:38
  Speaker 6: You know, he really beat Hillary Clinton on this because
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: he just said it over and over again. When I
• 55:41
  Speaker 6: would be out all across the country talking to folks
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: and talking to veterans, they say Donald Trump supports veterans.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: And I say, how do you know?
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: And they say because he says it all the time.
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: And he would he would probably say it 10, 20
• 55:52
  Speaker 6: times more than Hillary Clinton would. And then even in
• 55:54
  Speaker 6: the last couple of weeks. he captures this unique populism
• 55:58
  Speaker 6: that exists around veterans issues. He tweeted a picture of
• 56:01
  Speaker 6: the dog, the special forces dog from the raid on Baghdadi,
• 56:06
  Speaker 6: because that kind of got two out of the three.
• 56:07
  Speaker 6: You got dogs and vets in one shot. But I
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: think it cuts to this, on some levels, a political
• 56:13
  Speaker 6: understanding that he has about the power of veterans and
• 56:17
  Speaker 6: military folks that the Democrats so far really haven't been
• 56:20
  Speaker 6: able to understand or capture or show they can do
• 56:22
  Speaker 6: the same.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: So let's talk about that relationship.
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: So Like, I sit back and I watch Trump and
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: I see him say he knows more about ISIS than
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: his generals. And I watch him shit on Jim Mattis
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: and he's attacked Gold Star families. And then his son,
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump Jr., wrote in this new book that visiting
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: Arlington National Cemetery made him think of the sacrifices the
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: Trump family had made. And I hear those comments, Paul,
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: and I think that would be a political death sentence
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: for anyone else, certainly any Democrat. They would get no
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: support from veterans forever. They would be rightly attacked and criticized.
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: It would be over.
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: But that's just never how it works with Trump. Why
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: do you think that he's able to get past those
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: kinds of comments? And how are Democrats failing to talk
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: to or talk with veterans and connect with them on
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: a level that might earn them their political support?
• 57:11
  Speaker 6: I mean, this is really, really core to politics in
• 57:15
  Speaker 6: our country right now. The fact that he has not
• 57:17
  Speaker 6: been held accountable on so many issues, but especially on
• 57:21
  Speaker 6: the issues surrounding our military and veterans community. I mean,
• 57:25
  Speaker 6: You know, veterans are being deported. You know, the rights
• 57:29
  Speaker 6: of gay veterans and trans veterans are being attacked constantly.
• 57:33
  Speaker 6: But on a very basic level, you know, he abandoned
• 57:35
  Speaker 6: the Kurds, which is, in my experience, the most universally
• 57:39
  Speaker 6: unpopular move he's ever made in the military community. This
• 57:43
  Speaker 6: is very, very different right here from Republicans and Democrats
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: who are universally outraged and upset by that move because
• 57:50
  Speaker 6: we've abandoned our allies and we've really kind of cut
• 57:52
  Speaker 6: the legs out from under our troops. not just now,
• 57:55
  Speaker 6: but in the future. If we abandon the Kurds, nobody's
• 57:57
  Speaker 6: going to stand up with our guys and gals in
• 57:59
  Speaker 6: Afghanistan or anywhere else in the future. But I think
• 58:02
  Speaker 6: it really starts with having a strategy. And I think
• 58:04
  Speaker 6: Trump has always had a strategy about making veterans issues central.
• 58:09
  Speaker 6: They're not a special interest group to him. They're not
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: a community of minorities in the same way they often
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: are in the Democratic Party. They're central to everything he does.
• 58:17
  Speaker 6: And I think that's a very important and effective strategy.
• 58:21
  Speaker 6: Then it comes down to who's your messenger. Now, he
• 58:23
  Speaker 6: is by default able to get away with this shit,
• 58:25
  Speaker 6: but he's often wrapping himself in the American flag, sometimes literally.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 58:29
  Speaker 6: And he's got Navy SEALs. He's got dogs. He's got
• 58:31
  Speaker 6: Medal of Honor recipients. He plays the staging of it
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: very well. And on the other side, the Democrats don't
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: seem to have a strategy and they definitely don't have
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: a clear leader. So there's nobody like a Jim Webb.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: The Marine Corps veteran from Virginia who was a senator.
• 58:48
  Speaker 6: There's no John Kerry who's out in front. By default,
• 58:51
  Speaker 6: it's kind of a group of different people. The chair
• 58:53
  Speaker 6: of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee is Senator John Tester
• 58:55
  Speaker 6: from Montana, probably something most Americans don't even know.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: And he's not a veteran.
• 59:00
  Speaker 6: And for a long time, the leader for the Democrats
• 59:02
  Speaker 6: was Bernie Sanders, which politically is not exactly a winning hand.
• 59:06
  Speaker 6: If you want to fight on veterans issues and you
• 59:08
  Speaker 6: want to put up a socialist anti Democrat in Bernie Sanders,
• 59:12
  Speaker 6: it's not a winning political hand, regardless of how you
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: feel about Bernie Sanders. So they've mastered the strategy. They've
• 59:17
  Speaker 6: also mastered the messaging. They've got key leaders in front.
• 59:21
  Speaker 6: And I think most of all, Tommy, they're first. Trump
• 59:23
  Speaker 6: seems to always be pressing the tempo, right? Whether it's
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: revealing the news about the Baghdadi raid, or attacking Colonel Vindman,
• 59:32
  Speaker 6: who shouldn't be attacked, or just getting to the parade first.
• 59:35
  Speaker 6: If this were a military operation, Trump is always pushing
• 59:38
  Speaker 6: the pace, and the Democrats always seem to be on defense.
• 59:41
  Speaker 6: And that goes back to a lot of issues around
• 59:43
  Speaker 6: the Democrats' challenges internally in reconciling anti-war positions and a
• 59:48
  Speaker 6: complicated history in this country. There's a lot that's been
• 59:51
  Speaker 6: written and said by Jim Webb and Bob Kerry and others,
• 59:54
  Speaker 6: but I think this is a chance to turn that
• 59:56
  Speaker 6: page for the Democrats with new faces. And it's got
• 59:59
  Speaker 6: to be people like Tammy Duckworth. It's got to be
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 6: people like Pete Buttigieg and Tulsi Gabbard. And the other
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 6: one we actually didn't mention is Joe Sestak. He's not
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 6: registering anywhere. But Admiral Joe Sestak was a Democratic congressman
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 6: from Pennsylvania. And now he is still in the race.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 6: Seth Moulton was in the race. So if you look
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 6: across the spectrum, the Democrats at one point had four
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: or five post 9-11 veterans and the Republicans have none.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 6: I think if you look ahead to four and eight years,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: it's probably going to be a proxy war on both sides.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 6: where both parties recognize this political power. But, you know,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 6: that's been true for George Bush, JFK, all the way
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: back to George Washington when he first became president after
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: resigning his commission as a general.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: You know, I like Seth Moulton a lot, and I
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: like Joe Sestak, too. I literally just forgot he was
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: running for president. I didn't mean to not include him.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: You know what? That's a point, though, Tommy, right?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 6: Because it would behoove the Democrats to elevate the fact
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 6: that he's running, right? He's a retired admiral. He has credibility. Yeah,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 6: he's not even polling anymore. But I think it does
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 6: make a case if they want to be seen as
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 6: strong on defense and they want to be seen as
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 6: strong on veterans issues, they've got to raise up these leaders,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 6: even if they may not agree with them all the
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 6: time or even if they're not their best horse. I mean,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 6: you could make an argument that Sestak might make a
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 6: good cabinet secretary and the same could be made for
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 6: Tulsi or Pete or anyone else. So I think it
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 6: really is about casting, but I see it all the time.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 6: There's no clear leader driving the strategy and picking someone
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 6: to be out in front for Democrats on these issues.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 6: The last time I saw it was maybe when they
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 6: picked Patrick Murphy, the congressman from Pennsylvania, to be the
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 6: leader on Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Nancy Pelosi chose him,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 6: put him out in front, and he became the guy
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 6: who was carrying water on that issue over and over
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 6: again on every Sunday morning news show, every press conference.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 6: Patrick Murphy was the quarterback, and he was picked by
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 6: the general manager that was Nancy Pelosi to be that quarterback,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 6: and it was a winning playbook and a winning game
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 6: in the end. I think they would be well-suited to
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 6: go back and look at that again.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: So, you know, you mentioned this challenge that Democrats often
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: have of these votes in favor of authorizing wars. You know,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: I think back to when you were in Iraq.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, the vote to authorize the war in Iraq
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: was seen as you were either with the troops or not.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: The vote for the surge was, you know, about cutting
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: or running and supporting our troops. How do you think
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: Democrats should talk about or vote on, you know, matters
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: of war and peace, knowing that that's the political overtone?
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: But also knowing that, you know, we're in Afghanistan 19
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: years later. I don't know that continuing that operation is
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: supporting the troops.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, how do you think about this?
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 6: I think it's starting to change. I mean, I think
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 6: you're going to see Mayor Pete is probably the best bet.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 6: If you want to pick among the candidates, someone who
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 6: can take this fight to Trump most aggressively, who can
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 6: embody what it means, who can challenge him on values,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 6: it's going to be Mayor Pete.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 6: Like he said it before. He said, you know, I
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 6: was in Afghanistan. when Trump was on The Apprentice. He
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 6: can draw these contrasts. And I think you've seen in
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 6: the last couple of weeks, he's dialing it up because
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 6: it works in places like Iowa. It works in places
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 6: like Pennsylvania. And I would argue it's going to work
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: across the country. I mean, when John Kerry came out
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 6: for the nomination, he saluted and said, it's John Kerry
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 6: reporting for duty. I mean, it was a little bit
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 6: on clay feet because the party wasn't ready for that.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 6: And I don't think the country was even ready for
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 6: it in some ways. That's, you know, my history goes
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 6: back to when 2004, I came home and approached The
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 6: Kerry campaign, I approached Bush. I wanted to talk about
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 6: Iraq and neither one of them wanted to. You know,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 6: that's how I first met your colleague, Jon Favreau. I mean,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 6: he was a speechwriter in Kerry's campaign back in the day.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 6: But back in 2004, the Democrats weren't comfortable really talking
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 6: about issues of national defense and security. They've come a
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 6: long way. But I think this next generation really represents
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 6: the best hope. And it starts like any other political operation.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 6: It has to start locally. It has to start with
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 6: building a farm team. And whatever party builds the veteran
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 6: farm team, I think will do well on policy, will
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 6: do right on policy, and will win. I've called it
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 6: a camouflage wave. I think there is a wave of
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 6: candidates from both parties that's going to sweep over our
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 6: politics over the next couple of years and could define
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 6: our politics for the next generation. I would be surprised
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 6: if in the next two or three presidential candidates, both
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 6: candidates weren't veterans. I think you'll see both parties putting
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 6: veterans much more aggressively out in front. In some ways,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 6: it is a proxy war. but in some ways it's
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 6: always been the case in American politics.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: Um, so one person in this race who's a veteran,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: it's been a bit of a mystery, I think to
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: the democratic party has been Tulsi Gabbard. You interviewed her
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: a couple of weeks back on your show on angry Americans.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: And I listened to it.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: And for the first time I felt like I kind
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: of understood where she was coming from on a whole
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: bunch of issues. You pressed her hard on a bunch
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: of shit. I wanted to hear about Russia, about Syria,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: about support from the right. Um, But I was like, OK,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: I get it. Like, I get where she's coming from.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: And then like a day later, she had this big
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: blow up with Hillary Clinton that still hasn't gone away.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: I just saw a press release come through my Slack
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: where she's demanding that Hillary Clinton put out a statement
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: saying she supports and admires Tulsi. So I'm just again,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: I'm confused. Like, it's clear to me that Tulsi is
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: not really running for president on the Democratic side. Like,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: you don't go on Breitbart all the time. You don't
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: go on Fox News all the time if that's your strategy.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: She's doing something else, but I'm not entirely sure what
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: the end game is.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: What do you make of it?
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 6: Tulsi is fascinating and for some infuriating. I did a
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 6: poll on my Twitter feed after I interviewed her and
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 6: asked who was less popular right now in the Democratic Party,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump or Tulsi Gabbard. And it was close in
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 6: some areas. I mean, she has this unique ability to
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 6: piss off and outrage many in the party. But what
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 6: I've also seen, I've interviewed her on the radio and
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 6: also on Angry Americans at length. is that she has
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 6: a very unique appeal to a lot of unlikely constituencies.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 6: She does have some appeal to the military and veterans folks.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 6: She's also got Bernie anti-war folks. Now she's pivoting into
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 6: MMA fighters and CrossFit people. She really is putting together
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 6: an unlikely coalition. that is around a really kind of
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 6: nebulous identity, which is what has, I think, hurt her
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 6: at times. I'm not going to be an apologist for
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: Tulsi Gabbard.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: I asked her flat out.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: I'm like, what is up with you? I don't understand you.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 6: A lot of people don't understand you. People who love
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 6: her think she's a superhero. People who hate her think
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 6: she's a Bond villain, right? And we'll see where she
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 6: shakes out over time. But I think she is building
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 6: something different for the long term that will be propelled
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 6: by places like Breitbart, but are also appealing to many independents.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 6: and unaffiliated. I see it all the time. And she
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 6: has worked across partisan lines. I've worked with her in
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 6: the House. I've worked with a lot of Republicans as well.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 6: She and Brian Mast, a double amputee from Florida and
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: a Republican, came together on burn pits, toxin exposure issues
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 6: for veterans. They came together frequently when we needed someone
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 6: to go across the aisle. In fairness, Tulsi Gabbard would
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 6: do it when a lot of other Democrats wouldn't. So,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 6: you know, she's pissed off a lot of people. She's very,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 6: very unique. She's also taken some pages from Trump. Like
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 6: the best thing that ever happened to her campaign was
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 6: for Hillary to, whether it was intentional or not, attack her.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 6: She's going to play that card as often as she can.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 6: And if someone wants to get an assist on Tulsi
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 6: ending up on the next debate stage, it's Hillary Clinton.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 6: She wouldn't have gotten to 4% and gotten to the
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: next debate if Hillary hadn't mentioned her name. So I think,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 6: you know, Tulsi is very shrewd. She's very smart. She's
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 6: running a good social media and media operation. And she's
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 6: going places other people won't go, like Joe Rogan. She
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 6: did a three-hour interview on the very popular Joe Rogan podcast.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 6: Might be the only podcast that's more popular than yours.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 6: But I think she's going to be fascinating.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: He has more people, trust me.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's going to.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 6: Be fascinating to watch. And I think vexing. I think
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 6: that is what Tulsi Gabbard is, is she's vexing. I
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: have also strongly criticized her for not condemning Assad as
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 6: a war criminal. He is a war criminal. I asked
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 6: her why she won't call Putin an enemy. She danced
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 6: around that a lot. Some of it has to do
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 6: with philosophical views. Some of it has to do with politics.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 6: And I think we've got to continue to press her
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 6: and every other candidate.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you and I were texting yesterday because Tulsi was
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: doing an event in Santa Monica where they did CrossFit
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: on the beach. And it was such a different kind
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: of event in California, which is sort of proving to
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: not be that significant in this early primary process.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: It was fascinating. If I wasn't such a... Soft old man,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: I would have gone out there and done some burpees.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 6: If you want really motivated people who will get out
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 6: the vote and get out and grind, it's CrossFit people.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 6: I mean, they're like their own political party in and
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 6: of themselves. And if you can become the candidate of CrossFit,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 6: that's like a base for the next 10 years that
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 6: can propel you through a lot of stuff.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: Hey, Paul, you mentioned the burn pit issue. Can you
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: explain to listeners what that is? Because I think it's
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: really important, but there's not a lot of awareness about
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: the challenge there.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 6: Burn pits are the Agent Orange of our generation. In
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 6: Iraq and Afghanistan, overseas, frequently when we were in combat zones,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 6: they had to get rid of a lot of stuff.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 6: It was medical waste. It was military parts.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: It could be anything.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 6: They put it in a giant pit and set it
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 6: on fire. You know, it used to be like the
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 6: shit cans in Vietnam. They would literally burn the shit
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 6: with like jet fuel and guys and gals would be
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 6: seen stirring these big cans. Now, sometimes they're as big
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 6: as an acre. They're like a giant landfill.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: That are on fire.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 6: And that was how often the military disposed of waste
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 6: all the way going back to the invasion right after
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 6: 9-11 in Afghanistan. So For now, over a decade, military
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 6: folks have been breathing in these toxins. And now we're
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 6: seeing signs of cancer. We're seeing other signs of respiratory issues.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 6: And it's impacting thousands, potentially hundreds of thousands of men
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 6: and women who've served after 9-11. It's a lot like
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 6: the symptoms we saw after Ground Zero. I'm a 9-11
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 6: first responder, and I've been a part of advocating for
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 6: the 9-11 first responders and getting them the health care
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 6: that they need because so many of them are dying.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 6: We are seeing exactly the same tread line around burn pits.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 6: And it could take more lives ultimately over the next
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: couple of decades than any enemy or any other issue
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 6: we're facing in the military. It's absolutely serious.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: It's deadly.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 6: And it's exactly the kind of issue the president could
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 6: focus on instead of focusing on politics. And the candidates
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 6: should focus on because veterans care about it, but also
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 6: the American public cares about it. I hope if you
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 6: haven't heard of burn pits, use the hashtag burn pits.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 6: Check them out. We need your help and support. And
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 6: it's one way we can really unite around a policy
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 6: issue that's also very important locally.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally agree.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: Last question for you.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: So by now, everyone listening has realized that you're a
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: pretty damn good talker. Tell them about Angry Americans. Why
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: did you decide to get into this dirty business of podcasting?
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: Do you just have a passion for underwear ads?
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 6: I want to be Tommy Vitor when I grow up. No,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 6: I mean, the seriousness is, you know, I have been
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 6: doing advocacy for a long time and I had to
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 6: ask myself, how can I take it up a notch?
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 6: How can I use my skill set to really drive
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 6: forward this precarious state of affairs in America. I think
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 6: America is in a very dangerous place. I think many
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 6: of your listeners feel the same way. And for me,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 6: media was the way to try to drive that conversation forward,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 6: bring people together and make change. And I also realized
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 6: there was no home for me as an independent. There
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 6: was no home for me as an unaffiliated. I don't
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 6: love Fox News. I don't love MSNBC. I don't love
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump. I don't love AOC. There's no home for me.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 6: So I decided to create one because I think there's
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 6: a lot of folks who feel that they are underrepresented
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 6: and are also just angry. The line that I use
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 6: all the time is if you're not angry, you're not
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 6: paying attention. There's plenty to be angry about in America,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 6: and we can all unite around that. It could be
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 6: burn pits. It could be infrastructure. It could be the
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 6: New York Knicks suck. There's a lot of reasons to
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 6: be angry. But I think we can turn that anger
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 6: into anger. vigilance and into positive impact. Trump has hijacked anger.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 6: I want to take it back. He's also hijacked patriotism,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 6: and I want to be a part of taking that back.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 6: So Angry Americans is the first podcast to come out
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 6: of our new media entity, Righteous Media. We want Righteous
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 6: to be for unaffiliateds and independents what Crooked is for
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 6: the left. The middle hasn't had a voice and hasn't
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 6: had media vehicles and places to come together. We want
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 6: Righteous to be a part of that, and we think
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 6: it's going to be good for America, just like you
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 6: guys We will support candidates. We will support causes. We
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 6: will throw punches. We will take punches. We're going to
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 6: be in the mix because this is about the fight
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 6: for America's future. And in our view, it's bigger than party,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 6: and it has to transcend party. And no matter who
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 6: wins next year, we've got a lot.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Of work to do.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 6: We're going to have to stick together. So Angry Americans
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 6: is my attempt right now, the first of many, to
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 6: try to drive this country forward in a positive direction.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm a fan. I'm a listener.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: I have no doubt that you'll be in the mix
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: throwing punches, and it will be awesome to watch. So
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: everyone should check it out, man.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: Thanks for doing the show. I know it's a crazy
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 4: day for you. I really appreciate it.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 6: Tommy, thank you, and congratulations to you and the guys.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 6: You're really doing a tremendous public service, and you're an inspiration,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 6: and I'm really, really grateful for you joining my show
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 6: and for staying on these issues. They're not always sexy,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 6: but you've been on them for a long time, and
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 6: I'm grateful for your support and your friendship.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Paul Rykoff for joining us today. And we'll
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: see you guys bright and early on Wednesday morning in
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: our Slack channel if you want to see that. And
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: then Dan and I will be doing a pod on Thursday.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: What time is this hearing starting on Wednesday?
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: It starts at 10 a.m. Eastern, so 7 a.m.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Our time.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Are you fucking kidding me?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: God damn it, Schiff. God damn it.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: Someone wake Lovett up.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: Nadler wouldn't stand for this. Nadler's not a morning person.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: End of pod.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: senior producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Carolyn Reston, Tanya Sominator, and
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: Katie Long for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Narmel Coney, and Yael Freed, and Milo Kim,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.