Latest / Cait & Court's Cozy Corner: Romance Readers / Let's Talk About: Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros with actor Sarah Drew
Transcript
- Caitlin Stryker: Executive producers and hosts, Caitlin Stryker and Courtney Richter, producers, Canasia Ngo and Hollie Lobosky Original music, Cassie De Silva. Hi! This is a podcast for lovers of romance and romantasy novels who want to go on a deep dive into their favorite genre. Honest discussions and salacious details giving romance books the respect they deserve. We are two friends, actors, moms and romance readers who like a bit of spice and everything nice in their books. can't do it! She gets nervous at like two. Courtney Richter: I can't! I'm just like, what did I forget? But it's okay. It's really Caitlin Stryker: Yep. Hi, welcome back to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner. We have a very special guest with us today. We are so excited. Sarah Drew is joining us. Oh my gosh, Sarah. Thank you so much. So Sarah is joining us because she is actually in a movie that my husband and I have made and produced. And I met Sarah through my husband who worked with Sarah on a Lifetime You know the drill. Be sure to like and subscribe wherever you listen to our podcast. You know the drill. Be sure to like and subscribe wherever you listen to our podcast. Courtney: Thanks for tuning in to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner Romance Readers. Courtney Richter: Yes! Caitlin Stryker: movie ⁓ about a serial killer and what was the name of that movie again Sarah please I know sorry now I'm Hi, I'm Cait Sarah Drew: It changed so many times. ⁓ Let's see, I think it's called The Girl, no, The Girl Who Caught the Killer. Can you take a guess about what the movie's about? Courtney: And I'm Court. Welcome to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner Romance Readers. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, something like that. Courtney Richter: The girl who caught the killer. The neighbor who saw the killer through the window. Yeah. Sarah Drew: ⁓ no, how she caught the, ⁓ you know what? I'm looking my own IMDB page up is what I'm doing to remember what the title of. Caitlin Stryker: you Courtney: As we like to say, you don't need spice for a book to be good. Well, you don't need running shoes to run, but they sure do help. Courtney Richter: That's fair. We can take a guess at it. How the girl caught the killer. Caitlin Stryker: That's what I do all the time. Sarah Drew: How she caught the ki- I think it might be how she caught the killer? Caitlin Stryker: You Sarah Drew: It's gonna be great, guys. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ I have to do that all the time because they do they give you one title that you work with the whole time and you're like I love this this is great and then they change it again and then they change it again Courtney Richter: you Sarah Drew: It happens everywhere. Courtney Richter: But also I just can't remember anything anymore. Like I used to think, I used to never understand when actors didn't know it. What is it? Sarah Drew: How She Caught a Killer. Courtney Richter: How she caught a killer. Caitlin Stryker: There you go. Sarah Drew: But it was like originally called The Girls of Route 66 or something. And then it was called The Girl Who Caught the Killer. And then it became How She Caught a Killer. So there you go. It's a really fun movie. It's a really fun. It came out so well. I'm really proud of it. And Bradley's amazing in it. Caitlin Stryker: Mmm. Courtney Richter: look for that one. And find out how. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. It is. Courtney Richter: That's awesome. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Yeah, he's the killer. He's very good at being the bad guy. And Sarah had this really fun, you know, friends and family screening at her place and she did it as a serial killer theme, like cereal, like breakfast cereal. And... Sarah Drew: She's so creepy! Courtney Richter: ⁓ Brad's so good at that. ⁓ I love that. ⁓ my gosh. Sarah Drew: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: My son Beckett, I mean, he was maybe six or seven at the time. He was so little. He loved this theme so ⁓ still I told Sarah this the other day. He still talks about it. He's like, remember ⁓ cereal killer party? was like, he's like, that was really good. ⁓ Sarah Drew: It was years ago. Courtney Richter: ⁓ wow. Sarah Drew: So when, actually that was my kid's idea. That was, think Hannah's idea. Yeah. She was, and the way, the kids did not watch the serial killer movie. went and watched like Star Wars or something. I think like Star Wars, ⁓ some Star Wars movie. They did not watch the serial killer movie, but they did enjoy cereal themed ⁓ food. Courtney Richter: That's amazing. Caitlin Stryker: Amazing. No they didn't. were in another room watching. What were they? I don't know. They were watching a kids movie. It was Star Wars. Yes, yes. Love. Courtney Richter: Okay. Caitlin Stryker: They They did. They really enjoyed ⁓ They really enjoyed it. ⁓ And of course, everyone knows Sarah Drew from Court's favorite show ever, Grey's ⁓ Courtney Richter: Snacks. It's the perfect snack. Yes. you ⁓ Gray's done it. Sarah Drew: you Courtney Richter: book lands I'm like what yes of course yes yes yes always Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yes. And then the movie that Sarah's in of ours is called Venice Days. And it is an independent film that is actually a nonprofit feature film. So all proceeds from the sale of the film are going to local LA charities helping that are helping victims of the LA fires and ⁓ our friends and neighbors who are part of the unhoused community. So it's actually a really, really cool project. ⁓ Yeah. Sarah Drew: Really cool and there's an amazing cast because everybody was like this sounds like a great idea let's do this and it was local it was in LA so we could all just show up and not travel somewhere. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yeah Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah. Courtney Richter: I Caitlin Stryker: Right? Right? Which does not happen anymore. Courtney Richter: Well, that watch is so impressive for one, but all of you managed to get it together, like come together and actually do this and do it as a film for charity, which does not happen and is such a real amazing to watch. And it's been so exciting watching this project come together. And then on top of that, you're also a big romantasy reader, which is part of why you are here joining us. Because. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Sarah Drew: I am. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. So then I was talking with my castmates and I was doing some interviews with them and I was like, all the girls, was like, do you read romance or romantasy? And then we were to get into it and they were like, yes. And Sarah was like, ⁓ yeah. And we like got, was like, will you come on my podcast? ⁓ Courtney Richter: Thank Caitlin Stryker: And Sarah was like, yes, absolutely. I was like, great, we're gonna talk about Fourth Wing. Courtney Richter: Fourth Wing, yes. Finally, finally. Sarah Drew: Bye bye! Caitlin Stryker: I have finally read it. ⁓ Sarah Drew: today! Caitlin Stryker: Yes! ⁓ Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to like finally know what is going on. Yeah, check out that ⁓ Sarah Drew: Zaden Riorson is a zaddy. Courtney Richter: He is he's the in my head, OG Zaddy. He's the OG shadow daddy. He's the number one. Yes. ⁓ love Zaden so much. It's been so fun diving back in to get ready for this episode into that world. ⁓ read it so many times. This Fourth Wing is my like comfort romantasy book. So I've probably read it like six or seven times. Yeah, it's my like Sarah Drew: Shout out daddy zaddy. Caitlin Stryker: You Yes. Hmm. Sarah Drew: Really? Caitlin Stryker: Wow. Courtney Richter: Cleanser or dive back in it was my set book for a while that I just bring if I was working on something It's just like an easy clear my mind jump back in kind of one. I it was my first first first romantasy so I didn't do A Court of Thorns and Roses first. This was my very first and it's Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: I love it. Okay, I don't think I can read this book in public. could not bring this book to a set. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: That's right. Okay, so I really... Courtney Richter: am very good at that. I am so good at that. Sarah Drew: blushing all the way up to my forehead. Caitlin Stryker: Totally. One of my mom friends, I was talking to her about our podcast, she was like, yeah, I was walking around with Fourth Wing, like, through like my daughter's high school and all these girls were like, wow, you're reading that? It's so good. was like, yeah. And she's like, and then I got there and I was like, ⁓ I've walking around with this ⁓ in hand. Sarah Drew: dirty mommy. Caitlin Stryker: She was mortified! She had no idea! Right? Sarah Drew: That's so funny. Courtney Richter: It's a good one for that because same I recommended it to like my mother-in-law and my mom and like my sister and all of them I didn't even think about that part of it until after and like, oh wait, right. I don't know if you read. Caitlin Stryker: Thanks. Courtney Richter: This kind of spice or not look but there's a little bit for everyone Sarah Drew: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Mind out. Sarah Drew: Most people enjoy it even if they pretend like they wouldn't. Courtney Richter: Exactly. Exactly. Especially in this very well done. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, Yeah, but you know this book it because it goes along for very it's very well done but it goes along for a very long time like just bringing you into the into the whole world And it takes a minute before you get to this place. So you kind of ⁓ yeah, this is like a real, know really good fantasy and such an interesting world that you're drawn in and you're like Sarah Drew: Yep. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: dragons and the whole thing and then and then and you know and I'm reading it at this point I'm like lightning yeah Sarah Drew: lightning crashes and armors break. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: So. Sarah Drew: this just because I read it a couple of years well I guess maybe a year ago now maybe it's only been a year and a half ⁓ but I have but I've read a bunch of stuff since then so had Court send me ⁓ a ⁓ summary of the whole story and then I was like okay the summary is great but also I want to get back into like the storytelling vibe ⁓ it so so then I read the bonus materials the chapters from Xaden's perspective which were really fun and then Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: I went online and I was like, okay, I have to just read the spicy scenes because, you know, I just have to remember what those were. And you're right, it doesn't come till chapter 30. It's like chapter 30. There's so much longing and push and pull and there are a couple steamy kisses and then a whole lot of feelings that are described forever about those steamy kisses. Courtney Richter: Yeah, it's deep in there. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah! Very. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Sarah Drew: And then just the way that these two affect each other and have this gravitational pull toward toward each other. you know, like it's so juicy so that by the time you get to those spicy scenes, it's just it's been earned. It's really hard. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ yeah. Yes. Courtney Richter: Yes. It is, by the way, this whole episode for anyone listening is going to be spoilers. So if you haven't read Fourth ring, go read it and then listen to this where there's no, we're just going into it. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. And I mean, if you haven't read Fourth Wing yet, like what are you doing? Courtney Richter: Yeah. Are you Caitlin? Sarah Drew: And why are you listening to this podcast? This shouldn't be a podcast you listen to. ⁓ Courtney Richter: No. Go read it, then join us. Caitlin Stryker: says the person who runs the podcast who just read it. It is like a seminal work. It is like, you you start with like Fourth Wing or ACOTAR and we were just saying, and there's like, you read ACOTAR and then obviously you read Fourth Wing right away. And I was like, not all of us. Some of us get lost on the way. Sarah Drew: True. Courtney Richter: They're the two beginner books into romantic, they really are. Sarah Drew: Not everyone. Courtney Richter: And even the fact that you've only read the first one, like when I read the first one, the second one wasn't out yet. And I was like for it from the cliffhanger of the first one. it's, I had to like distract myself because I just wanted to know what was going to happen. ⁓ it was killing me. And you're like sitting there pretty like the second one's there. You could read it and you're like, finished with the Wing. Caitlin Stryker: Yup. Sarah Drew: Yeah, totally. Caitlin Stryker: I know, I know. I could get it probably from the library. But I'm buried under a TBR. Yeah. It's on the shelf. Sarah Drew: You could read it! It probably doesn't have a six month hold wait time at the library anymore. Courtney Richter: ⁓ It's been out forever! Caitlin Stryker: I could walk there right after this. Actually, I do get to dive into the second one soon. are very fortunate. We have a lot of authors coming on ⁓ to join us on our podcast, and I am reading their books, ⁓ which is very exciting. Very, very exciting. We're very grateful. ⁓ And so I got to read all their books first, but I'm almost done all of them, so then I get to go into book two of Fourth Wing. Courtney Richter: you Yes, we do. Our TBR is long. Sarah Drew: ⁓ that's so exciting! Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ But without further ado here, Court can you give us just a quick little summary of Fourth Wing? A little synopsis? Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yes. So Fourth Wing, which all of you should know again, as we said, if you're listening, but basically, starts with Violet Sorrengail She's our female main character. She's about to go into the rider's quadrant at, I'm going to say that I'm going to butcher their name so bad bags... ⁓ What the actual war college called? Thanks. Yeah. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: You Sarah Drew: Bagsika? Basgiath. I don't have to say it guys. Caitlin Stryker: Thanks, Beth. Last, please. Courtney Richter: never said the words out loud. It's all been in my head. So that's why tried to say anyway, she's going to war college. And she's going in to be a rider against her own joys. Her mother has decided she will be a rider because all Sorrengails her older brother, her older sister and her mom were riders. She was trained to be a scribe her whole life, which are the people that write down the history and keep track of everything. But her mom this last year changed her mind. Not dangerous, the easy. You're either in Infantry which is like military, you're a scribe, you're a healer, or you're a dragon rider. That's the four things you can go into in the war college. But she's now, we open up with her mom and sister arguing because her sister's like, she can't go, she's gonna die. And her mom's like, she's going, essentially. And we find out Violet has an illness that makes her joints and ligaments. Sarah Drew: Not dangerous. Caitlin Stryker: You Courtney Richter: weaker and she tends to break bones and sprain things on her body easier than other people and she's also very tiny. So she's not really built to be a dragon rider. You're supposed to be strong, strong in her thighs to stay on a dragon strong upper body, like much stronger than I ever could be ⁓ the description when I read it to a dragon rider. But regardless of all this, she's going and it starts, you have to cross the parapet which is this long narrow beam basically. And if you fall off it, you die. And if you get across it, you're a cadet. Sarah Drew: And many people do like Courtney Richter: And many people die, like two people in front of her die. Caitlin Stryker: Many people do. This parapet situation, this parapet situation, I was like, what, what, is going, where are we going? Courtney Richter: Right away right away. They kill that guy that's like so nice and has his like his fiancee's ring and he's like we're waiting till graduation boom dead like oh God, that's what this book is. Okay Caitlin Stryker: And then That's when you realize, was like, so everybody's going to die. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yeah. Sarah Drew: Or just that like the situation is so dire that they have to like weed out anyone that could potentially be a weakness. There's you get an award for participation in this world. You are, it is ruthless, brutal. Yeah, no, no participation ribbons. It's like kill or be killed. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: No. No participation ribbons. Caitlin Stryker: No. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, That's a great way to put it because I'm reading it I just kept being like, no, there's. ⁓ Sarah Drew: Yeah, because then they also have challenges throughout the thing where if you fail your challenge, you can die. Also, people from different squads can kill each other. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: You die. Yeah Courtney Richter: Yeah, there's kind of like there's no rules other than you're not supposed to kill someone when they're sleeping and you're not supposed to kill someone in your own squad unless you're at Threshing, which is when dragons choose you. So basically that's like they set up you go you get into Dragon College by crossing the parapet and basically survive until you go meet the dragons and then they can choose you or not or they can just kill you. Yeah, completely incinerate which happens multiple times people are just incinerated like just Sarah Drew: Yeah, that's the only rule. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: or incinerate you. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, incinerate you. So many people get incinerated. Courtney Richter: The smell of sulfur happens and they're dead. Yeah, it's a very violent, brutal college, while at the same time, you have this girl fighting for her life who's very smart, like one of the smartest people ever in this, and that's her strength and what she's able to use to help her survive this college. She starts poisoning her ⁓ sparring partners, because every week you get matched up into a battle, and if you win, you keep the dagger, and if you lose, you may die, you may be dismembered or you may just be knocked unconscious. And she basically starts poisoning people to win her matches and use these little tricks along the way. And she ends up getting chosen by her dragon, Tarin. Am I saying that? Is it Tarin? Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Sarah Drew: Tarin think, I thought it was Tarin. Tarin. Caitlin Stryker: Tarn, Tarin? Tarn. Tarin. What? ⁓ Andarna Andarna Courtney Richter: Tarin, Tarin, Tarin. Yes, and, Andarna? ⁓ She has dragons, an adorable Feathertail, adorable Feathertail. All the while they've got Xaden, ⁓ our Zaddy, the bight. her Wing Leader. He's her sworn enemy from the get go. Enemies to lover. She. ⁓ Sarah Drew: Andarna, yeah? An adorable little baby. Caitlin Stryker: Aww. Yeah. Hmm. Courtney Richter: Her mother's responsible for killing his father, Fen Riorson who was like the leader the uprising. ⁓ And all children of the leaders are now marked as rebels of the rebels children. And they all have like this big black ⁓ of their arms, ⁓ them as children ⁓ What's the term? I'm forgetting. The rebels? Sure. Yeah. I was trying to think of the term for the movement. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Rebels? Rebels? Sarah Drew: levels. Courtney Richter: But he's, and basically we see him right away, because he's at the top of the parapet telling people to go. And he's already like the most gorgeous man she's ever seen. Looks like he's carved from marble ⁓ Yes, yeah, he's described very handsomely. Caitlin Stryker: Mm. It is a romantic. Sarah Drew: immediately taken with each other before they know who the other person is. They both notice each other big time. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah, they like lock eyes. And I think that's part of what when you were talking about Sarah, like the passion between them that grows and earns into these spicy scenes. The way Rebecca describes for these characters, it's always like Xaden's whole body. Like it's never like just a look, there's always these details that you can just like feel it in his breath, his reactions to her like they're so tangible. It's it's really well written that way that you get pulled in right away. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It really is. It really is. Sarah Drew: You get like, like the scriptors are like, and there's something about the way he's looking at her and all of a sudden his stomach clenches. Like he feels it in his gut. he's, you know, there's just like so many ways that you feel. Courtney Richter: YAH! She'll feel it. She'll feel the tingling of his eyes and like and his use of fuck. I'm sorry. He uses fuck in like the hottest way I've seen a character use the word fuck in a very long time. It's like well the fuck aware his fuck it is like the best fuck it. I heard him going like there's something. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Drew: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I like well the fuck where I that that was that's a very funny moment. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes! First time it loses temper. Caitlin Stryker: It really is. It really is. We're talking about like how she describes them and I'm immediately seeing the two men fighting shirtless, like sparring with their shirts off when she can't look away and I just, yeah, I really, really enjoyed that scene. This doesn't need to end. Sarah Drew: him and Gary Courtney Richter: ⁓ him and Garrick. Yeah. Yes. Yeah! Sarah Drew: And all of the steamy scenes where he is training her and there's so much sexual tension while he's also like there's care there too though, cause he, well at first it's more like I just want to show you up and then it's like, ⁓ Lord, she has this really powerful effect on me. And then it's like, and I will protect, I will burn the world down for her. So there's this sense of like, I'm actually doing you a kindness. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: on the mat. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Ugh. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. YAH! Yeah. Sarah Drew: I like teach you how to defend yourself and how to use your strengths because I want you as opposed to Dane, her BFF who wants to kind of keep her bubble wrapped. He actually wants to empower her to, you know, to become stronger. And, but the way he does it is so damn sexy and infuriating. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes! Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yes! Totally! Sarah Drew: So you're like equal parts so pissed at him for being such an arrogant jackass. And on the other hand, you're like, yeah, but she needs somebody to kick her ass in order to survive. Like it is a kindness, you know? Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. Right? Courtney Richter: Yes. way that he like, the way he orders her around, that it never feels like he'd actually action it if she didn't listen. No, like, but that he just, it's that way. It's the same way certain characters we read, we're like, listen, in real life, if some guy tried to boss me around, I would tell him where to fucking go. But certain times, there's certain men that you're like, sure. Caitlin Stryker: No. Sarah Drew: Well, she wouldn't comply. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Sarah Drew: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Thank Courtney Richter: Tell me what to do. gonna put the diver going ⁓ is one of those Xaden and I would okay with being ⁓ and pushed Sarah Drew: Mm-hmm. Yes, sir. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Because it's they way it's done like when it's when it is done with a certain confidence and like knowing it is hot I think because as women we go ⁓ don't have to like figure anything out or take care of something or like handle this like you've you've got it handled and you just get to like go on the right so hot! Because I feel like otherwise we are so often burdened with managing everything and figuring it all out and handling it and the whole thing. then with sex too, know, it can be like performing and whatever. And then when a man is just like, I got this. know what I mean? You're like, ⁓ okay. Sarah Drew: ⁓ Okay. Courtney Richter: Yes, well, I see it as he pushes her to own her own power, like when he when she's freaking out about the gauntlet, right? Like she's freaking about the gauntlet. And he does give her advice. He's like, tell me like what actually is wrong because she can't make up the gauntlet. But he still doesn't spell it out. He's just like, figure it out the right ways. Not always the only way. So figure it out. And he still leaves her to her own devices, but just like pushes her to keep trying and keep looking deeper, like lifts her up. Caitlin Stryker: Thanks. Well, he does. He does that too, which is also so why. Yes. Yeah, which is great. Yes, which makes. Sarah Drew: What I also think Xaden's arrogance forgivable ⁓ ⁓ fact that he is doing everything in his power to protect her from him. ⁓ like, there's too much drama, there's too much I am running in charge of that would potentially put you in danger that would not be good for you. I can't. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yes. Sarah Drew: I'm not I can't be good for you. Like this would be bad. And even that first spicy scene he get he lets me asks her like five times if she's sure that this is, and he says over and over again, this is not a good idea. And she's like, I am begging you. You know, like there's not there's not a hint of him just following his gut reaction to get whatever he wants. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yeah Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah! Courtney Richter: Yes. Sarah Drew: Which I think is what probably a lot of women in reality feel from it. You know, there's just a sense of like I'm just gonna get what I want and then I'm gonna move on and he's so careful about it actually and tried so hard Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Well there's something! Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: But he's also like rock hard, like he's rock hard and against her and then trying to hold back. It's that like, with that, like that push and pull of seeing it's a self control and the power gives you the woman of seeing what you're doing to them. And then also like being able to take it, which I love when they do finally go when the desk is the wrong angle, because that's so happens. And when you read and you read this thing, you're like, that doesn't work like the sex on the stairs, like who the fuck is having sex on the stairs, like move up five feet or down below. Sarah Drew: Well, yeah, self control. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yes. Sarah Drew: Let's do it! Caitlin Stryker: Ow! Yeah. Courtney Richter: Like no, there's no comfortable, like it's never that urgent. Like move, go to the landing at least, do something. So I love that they like addressed it like this doesn't fucking work, but then he just like picks her up and then it's the armoire against it. They're like breaking the furniture and lightning and smoke and like. Sarah Drew: You know, you know. Why are of these ⁓ romantasy Six, seven. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Right? Well, cause you need to be to have the hot sex so they can pick you up and hold you against the wall. Caitlin Stryker: Because. You know? Sarah Drew: and the men are this big. And actually in most of the other romantic novels, the men are a thousand years old. But look 23. Courtney Richter: Yeah, also that. But there's a law about that. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, yes. but you just looked at us. Sarah Drew: A 16 year old girl is saving the universe because there's no 40 year old woman who's lived a lot of life and gained a lot of wisdom that could actually potentially do the saving of the world. No, she has 16. Courtney Richter: Yes. No, they've been waiting. They've been waiting. Caitlin Stryker: you for saying this. I keep thinking this when I'm reading these books. I'm like, wait a minute, could we have an adult? Could we have an adult woman? Yeah. How do we have an adult woman who's lived a life and then she is the one who saves the world and we see that push pull of like, Courtney Richter: Yeah, can someone be a full grown up? That's the next one. We'll just make her an adult. Sarah Drew: grown-up, just a grown-up. Caitlin Stryker: family you know at versus like beauty Sarah Drew: Yeah. Courtney Richter: think that's our next one, the mom that has the kids and then suddenly realizes it's not peri-menopause, it's her fairy powers coming back. Caitlin Stryker: Yes! Sarah Drew: Yes! Oh my gosh it's not Peri, Fairy! Courtney Richter: That's what the hot flashes are and can't and the insomnia. ⁓ It's her coming out. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Six. I want to read this book. Right? ⁓ Sarah Drew: Ew! There's so much I don't give a fuck about anything that happens as women age. That would be really helpful in saving the world scenario, you know? Caitlin Stryker: yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think though, I think some of the appeal though, too, with these books with these younger women, and we're older, and we're reading them and the thing, I think some of it too is like, and you are at that age where you're like, I'm, but is, ⁓ I know for myself is kind of healing that sort of, you know, that younger version of myself. Courtney Richter: We know how to like put out the fires. We've got it. We'll figure it out. Sarah Drew: They don't know how handle it. Courtney Richter: You Sarah Drew: ⁓ yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: And so that I can like move forward totally empowered into this like next chapter. I feel that happening a lot for me right now. Like reading these books, I feel like, wow, I'm finding this so empowering, but I'm like, I've already gone through that journey, but maybe I didn't when I was in it, or I told myself a different story at that time that wasn't totally empowering. And this is helping me like rewrite that story. And I feel so empowered by who I am and how I got through, you know, something, whatever. Sarah Drew: ⁓ That's interesting. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: Well, one of the things I've noticed about these books is that all of these characters have some sort of broken shame that they're carrying with them into the situation that we find ourselves in in the story. And the journey through the whole world building and what's going on ⁓ with the danger that's coming and the powers that they have that they discover that is all actually a healing experience. Like they're healing from their shame. Caitlin Stryker: back then. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: and they're healing from their brokenness. And so are the thousand year old fairy men. So is Zaddy. ⁓ There's like a very big blockage in their lives that comes from some big pain they're walking in with. So I hear what you're saying about how when we read it, like I recognize that as like deep therapeutic work. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Hmm. Yes. Yes. Yes. Sarah Drew: I read all these books and I'm like, well, someone's been to therapy. So therapeutic language, especially in ACOTAR especially ⁓ the final one. ⁓ Oh my gosh, the stuff that they had to like excavate and release and let go of and pull out. What? No, no. Courtney Richter: Right. Caitlin Stryker: Ha! Yeah. Yeah. Yep. A ⁓ lot. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yeah. ⁓ Did you hear her talk about it? Did you listen to Sarah? Sarah J. Mass? Did you hear her talk about Silver Flames on Caller Daddy? She literally that whole experience and with the baby and with it's all stuff she went through like her own, is what you can tell like her experience her postpartum her birth experience like all of that and losing that power of your body that like Feyre went through and what she went through through depression and going and yeah, it totally reads like that which is so amazing. And why it's so powerful. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: Yeah, it feels so personal. Caitlin Stryker: It does. Sarah Drew: Whoa. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Right. Courtney Richter: And I love that. Yeah. Sarah Drew: It's why it's so powerful. I just got chills. like that. That is why it's so powerful because everybody knows what it feels like to feel shame. We all know what it feels like to have pain that we're trying to reorient or that we're trying to like not let it rule us or not let us let it trigger us anymore. like all of the so many of these things are really empowering. It's like, like, can you imagine if you if you could heal some big brokenness over like Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah Drew: belonging, of feeling the sense of like not belong or feeling the like rage of injustice because something has been done to you in your life and then all of a sudden you can wield lightning. Like it's such a powerful, yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Hmm. Right? Courtney Richter: herself, right? Because she has she has that same thing. Violet has her and her sons all have the same illness that violence has with the joints the same. were born with it. So her getting to write like a badass version of her and her husband's in the military and has been his whole life. So she's got that all in her life. And she basically got to be like, Look what we're fucking capable of with Violet and don't underestimate us. Caitlin Stryker: It's so powerful. Sarah Drew: for a while. Yep. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yes. Courtney Richter: and like there's other tools besides just our body. And I think exactly what you're saying. Like she was able to do that with this character in such a great way and in growth. And then it transcends just her journey. We all see our own healing and our own discovery in it, which is why this is such a great book ⁓ going through. And then Xaden it's still like. Sarah Drew: Absolutely. Courtney Richter: you're saying that Sarah had that thought I'm like, yeah, the thousand year old men go through it too, probably because if men could leave to a thous- live to a thousand they would still be figuring it would take that long. Like, it's like Caitlin Stryker: It's so true. Sarah Drew: Oh my gosh. Courtney Richter: That's when they would be ready for us. Really? If they could live to a thousand, then we'd get the Rhys. We'd be like, oh, okay, you've evolved. Caitlin Stryker: Shots fired. Sarah Drew: Can I tell you how infuriating of a character Rowan is in Throne of Glass? I'm like, get your shit together, man! What is wrong with you? You have had enough time in your life to stop whining about all this shit. Courtney Richter: ⁓ I know. I know. Oh my god. Yes! And how are you not recognizing this? Like how are you this tricked by the- Cait hasn't read it yet, but I- I agree. You're like, he does. It's fine. He does redeem himself. Yeah, get your shit together. It's not that hard. Sarah Drew: He does have a, it's a really great redemption. It just is like, it's like you're, you're 1700 years old. Like, got your shit together. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Get your shit together. Well, okay. So speaking of people who are so frustrating, Dane. Courtney Richter: ⁓ I Dane has OCD Perfectionism. I had that realization reading through it this time. I'm like, okay He's got or he's on the spectrum somewhere. Like his attachment to rules. I'm like, he's got something like he can't That's time around again Caitlin Stryker: attachment ⁓ His attachment to rules is, ⁓ I love the way that it's written in there and everything and it is so dangerous and there are people like that and ⁓ they don't realize like because rules change based on who's in power. Just because something is a rule does not mean that it is right. and like Courtney Richter: Cut! Sarah Drew: We're watching this happen in real time in our country. Courtney Richter: Right? Literally seeing it happen. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: So it's so dangerous if you cannot like pull it apart and think critically and find the nuance, ⁓ know, but there are so many people who they don't think that it's not and that's how this happens, you know, and it just is so frustrating. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: It's so frustrating. I also think that his, he's a little bit older than Violet, right? They grew up together, but I think when you grow up with someone and you're a whole grade above them, when you're little, that means like, you know everything. Do you know what I mean? And I think he's never grown out of the fact that she's inferior to him in some way. And there's this like sense of, well, I must protect her, but also she just doesn't. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, he's a couple years older. Yeah. Courtney Richter: ⁓ They're like a year apart though. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. So much, yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah Drew: She just doesn't know what she's doing. You know, there's like... Courtney Richter: No, but he's always protected her too, because she's always had the joint things and the dislocations and he's always been the one like he knows how to wrap her and take care of like that's been his role because of that and he can't see where she grew out of it. Sarah Drew: And it's a pattern. It's like also, you know, in life, when we put a boundary up, the folks that are used to the way things were are the ones that are the most angry about a boundary that you put up. And so you see her begin to change and shift and be like not in need of him in the same way. And it really throws him for a loop. He's not like evolved enough, at least in this book. There's some redemption coming. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: See ya. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a little redemption arc that happens. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Okay, good. Okay, good. Because by the end of this one, I was like, Okay, nice. That makes me happy. ⁓ Sarah Drew: Yes, yes, there's redemption coming. There's like really good redemption coming. But in this book at least, I think he's just not evolved enough to be able to allow her growth and her new boundaries and her new coming alive. And it feels weak if he doesn't have to protect her anymore. Courtney Richter: Yeah, there is. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: Like it felt good to be the strong one and to be the one that like took care of her. And now she doesn't need him to. And that's like, ⁓ I've been unseated in some way. And somehow, somehow you becoming capable makes me weaker, which is like, Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm story Which happens with men quite often when a woman becomes more powerful? The ones that are willing to lift them up as opposed to trying to pull them back down are farther and fewer in between which is why I like and I love I love Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Sarah Drew: That happens. Caitlin Stryker: quite often. Sarah Drew: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: love triangle at first and then I generally hate when they're like solved. always have a hard time off one to the other, but I feel like Dane was written in a way that it actually made it easier. Like you're excited about Dane for the first part of the book. Like you're still like, will they won't they the best friend thing. And they have a lot of cute teasing and flirting and comments, but tongues and other things. And then when you get to the combination, when they kiss after Tarin has chosen her and she's like, yeah. And then you're like, Caitlin Stryker: you Mm-hmm. Yes. Sarah Drew: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: And she's like, and I feel nothing. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Okay, okay, we're fully like, is this going? But I still like him a little bit as the jealousy tool. Like I still enjoy that little like pieces here and there, like is he is he not? And he did grow up in the military. So he is going to be very rule bound structured. And that's kind of the point where he grows to as a character. But I will say as like, as much as we're like, about Dane, he also is written in a very attractive. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yes. Courtney Richter: way and is a really fun first little character to get into. And then you have Xaden who just no one will ever compare to, but it's definitely like, there was still that small part of it's like, ⁓ Dane, like I really liked him at first and still liked that flirtiness. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. No. Yes, and I think that's why it was so annoying that he just would not allow her to grow. You know, it was like, ⁓ okay, I liked you and now you're a big part of the problem and you need to get out of the way. I mean, you're not the biggest problem. The guy, I can't remember his name, the kid, Jack, in which she doesn't kill him. I'm like, just kill him already. ⁓ Why are you staring this? He needs to go. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you Sarah Drew: Jack needs to go. Courtney Richter: She does kill him in the book. She kills him in the book. With the... ⁓ she doesn't kill anyone. She doesn't kill anyone. She can't. Boulder. Yeah. She can't... She at this point still, and I think in the whole... Yeah, she can't kill anyone. She's not a killer. She just can't. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, but it takes her, she should have done it sooner. She had an opportunity sooner. I know. Sarah Drew: she doesn't directly kill him, she like strikes lightning near where he is, which effectively kills him. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. She's not a killer. She does, she does. And then she has a really hard time with the fact that she did. Like, and I liked that whole thing, but I mean, yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Which leads into the hot sex. It's like she needs to totally lose herself to finally give over to the tension between her and Xaden Sarah Drew: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Okay, also, can we talk about like the mated dragons? that first moment when ⁓ and she's like, we're having all these feelings because they're they're involved in some stuff. Courtney Richter: Yes! Sarah Drew: Yeah. when they're both just like. They're doing it. Courtney Richter: A small part of me wanted her Liam to go a little bit further. Like I would have loved if she just jumped in for a minute and then was like, ⁓ my. Sarah Drew: Wait, did she kiss him? I forgot. Did she kiss him? Courtney Richter: No, but I just wish she did. She sees him in the hallway and he's like, why are you looking at me like that? And she's like, ⁓ and then like slams the door. Caitlin Stryker: No! in heat. Sarah Drew: No, it would have created friction with Xaden that we want Xaden and Liam to remain like pure. You know what I mean? Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, it would've. Courtney Richter: Yeah, I don't want Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah, yes, I know we needed that, but I still think there's just that small part. I think I always like it out of the like, because Xaden will have his past and his other people. And I just like the idea of like that fun little like thing that she can hold over him. But he never cares. It doesn't matter. Caitlin Stryker: You Sarah Drew: felt some vibes with her and Liam once he was like her bodyguard. I was like he's so first of all stunningly beautiful because they all are. ⁓ but also just like so sweet with his carving and like gentle and kind and also strong. And you just are of like, what a nice man. What a sweet, nice Courtney Richter: Right? Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ yeah! Courtney Richter: Yes, always. Caitlin Stryker: I mean... Yeah, I love that! Courtney Richter: I know. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: I know when any his ending for Liam was just so upset- It was heartbreaking. ⁓ Like just. ⁓ Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yep. Sarah Drew: ⁓ that killed me. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah. And I you know, you're gonna you know, and you're you even are like, No, they're gonna find a way somehow. And meanwhile, like you've been reading this book where people are just like, dying left, right and center and you're like, but not him! Sarah Drew: So sad. Courtney Richter: I know. Not Liam. Sarah Drew: But not him! He was so pure! He's so good and so pu- Did he have a sister? He has a sister, right? Courtney Richter: I know. Yes, he has a sister. She comes in the next book. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, he's a sister. She comes in the second book, which I haven't read yet, but I know she's coming because of the whole, you know, as he dies, he's like, take care of my sister. ⁓ Sarah Drew: There's, ⁓ I don't want to give anything away, but, don't know. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a he. That was really heartbreaking. That takes away Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Sarah Drew: He is a force of good. Courtney Richter: He is. We needed him in his book. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, he was. And then her friend who was like, ⁓ I love this challenge. And then like takes a leap and just like dies. Like, what was she was so strong. Sarah Drew: Oh yeah. Was it the goblin? Courtney Richter: Yes, of Aurelie at the gauntlet. Yeah, Aurelie. Aurelie when she died because the dragon flew over. Yes, that was horrible. I know. There was something like whoa Caitlin Stryker: Or a or Aurelie or something? Aurelie? Something like that? Yeah, I was like- ⁓ Sarah Drew: Or Caitlin Stryker: Gankish, gankish. Sarah Drew: Lest we forget that we're living in a world where people die all the time. Like that is, that needs to, we need to be reminded of that. We're, I mean, we're told that in the first seconds of the book, the parapet, but we have to be reminded as, we become attached to characters, she just has to keep killing people off so that we can be like, oh yeah, everybody's in danger. Nobody's safe. Courtney Richter: I know. Caitlin Stryker: all the time. Courtney Richter: Constantly. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Right? Courtney Richter: Right. Caitlin Stryker: yeah, But it's really like jarring you're like, my gosh, and you're right and you kind of need to keep being reminded It's like my it's so brutal, but it's you're reading it. You're also like, but there's like could I ride a dragon like do I and then it's like I don't want no I don't want to. ⁓ No Yeah, ⁓ I'm good with being a scribe ⁓ Sarah Drew: I don't want to ride the dragon unless it's just for fun. Courtney Richter: ⁓ Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it with a saddle. Yeah Sarah Drew: battle anybody. I don't want to fight a griffin or whatever it is. Courtney Richter: No. Caitlin Stryker: No. Yeah, no. Okay, okay. So I did, I saw that coming. I saw the end like where it was like, cause it's all going along and I was like, somebody like the, the, bad guy isn't the bad guy here. You know, I was like, but I did not see these like wild wizard creature people. Sarah Drew: Something's gonna happen. Courtney Richter: Yeah, yeah, yeah, The Venin? Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: coming when it turned out to be that the Venin I was like Sarah Drew: The Venom. ⁓ shit. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: now I actually now I like I cannot wait to find out more about all of that in the next book. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: Well, and they are very formidable foes. Like you are drawn, unkillable. You get pulled into this story where you're we can't do anything about this. Caitlin Stryker: Holy shit, they were unkillable! Courtney Richter: Yes! Yeah, still are. Caitlin Stryker: Like that battle? I was like... Very alt is lost! Courtney Richter: Yeah, it's really, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, yeah, that doesn't get resolved. Three books in, still very much. Sarah Drew: It feels very all is lost. Caitlin Stryker: I was like, there's too much lost here. What are we, holy shit. ⁓ I'm very, very nervous about this and the way they just like sucked the power, ⁓ you know, and it just kept like, but I was so excited to meet the Griffin Riders and their whole thing. I was like, yes, I love these people. ⁓ Sarah Drew: No. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Sarah Drew: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes. Sarah Drew: And the sassy, the sassy girl that Violet has fallen of, because there's history with her and Zaddy. What's her name? I forgot. Kat, maybe? Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Xaden? Zaddy? Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: It's something like that, I think, yeah. Courtney Richter: No, no, that's in book two. That's okay. But the sister is in book one. The sister's in book one. So no, not her sister, the sister of Kat, the main girl. Sarah Drew: ⁓ whoops. Caitlin Stryker: That's okay. Rhiannon? Sarah Drew: ⁓ Mira? Mira. ⁓ yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, sorry, yes, I got them confused. Courtney Richter: Yeah. there but it's just that storyline yes happens in book two. Caitlin Stryker: Hmm. But they were, but they were so interesting. These guys, ooh, what's going on in there? Yeah, good. I'm excited. I'm excited for that whole world. Courtney Richter: Yeah, they're cool. It's fun. We go much more into that world in book two, which is great. Sarah Drew: And then we understand why he's been keeping his distance. you're also like, okay, yeah, her mom. Like why is it so hard for you to give in to this relationship? Yeah, her mom is responsible for your dad's death, but she's not her mom. Why is this so important? Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, that doesn't really get resolved in this one. was like, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because he kept being like, you don't... Mm. Courtney Richter: because Dane would be able to read her thoughts because she didn't know how to shield. They didn't want Dane to find anything out, which is why the whole ending happens because Dane does even hear about like the one thing he does give her, was Amrith. And so that's the biggest reason I think that they kept most of this from her right or wrong. But, and as she said, she should have told me we could have figured it out, but still. Sarah Drew: ⁓ right. Caitlin Stryker: That was. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Like I get her anger and upset, but at the same time there was a small part of me like... Caitlin Stryker: Ciao. Steve is a little too angry for me. was like, I get it, but yeah. Courtney Richter: I feel like she holds the anger on this especially when you look the next book for too long for too long for what it is. I really do. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah Drew: They both do, through all the books, they have these battles of like, I'm mad at you for three months. You know, and you're like, get over it, talk your shit out and move on, you love each other. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Sure. Sarah Drew: I'm still so angry, but I can't resist you. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yeah. I hate what you do to my body when I'm still mad at you. It's a lot of- Sarah Drew: and I'm so mad at you. Courtney Richter: ⁓ This is Caitlin Stryker: It's so true because you are reading it and I'm like, okay get over it already Yeah, yeah Sarah Drew: You Let's move on. Who else is there? Who else you're going to be with? Courtney Richter: I the part that she doesn't think that he actually loved her that she thinks that's fake. I don't get that where her thoughts I was like what what led you to that like sometimes I get it when girls don't have confidence or doing this but I'm like but nothing about this means that that was fake like none of that lined up for me or like he seems like he really loves me but I couldn't have been hearing it right or whatever Caitlin Stryker: What that what what Yeah. No. Sarah Drew: Because don't we all do that? Don't we all tell ourselves ridiculous stories in our brains that are not real and not true? We tell ourselves lies all the time. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, we do. We tell ourselves horrible, horrible lies. And then if you like, if you reveal it to like, your like your good friend, or you reveal it to like your partner or whatever, and they're like, where did you come up with this horseshit? And you're like, ⁓ it is the facts of like, that's hard facts in here. Courtney Richter: Yes, it's Sarah Drew: It's constant, constant. Courtney Richter: It's true. Caitlin Stryker: And it constantly looping, you know what I mean? And that's where I love how these things always have like, you know, she said she wouldn't be able to shield her mind yet. And I've talked about this with the thing and I do think I'm like, yeah, I gotta work on my mind shielding, you know, like when those stupid lies come be like, fuck off, you're out. I have been doing this thing where I'm like slamming down a wall of adamant. I'm just like, no. Courtney Richter: Right? Get ready. ⁓ my god. walk it out It's like I love when guys are like, women are crazy. We're like, yeah, we know. Like we have the conversations before they bring it to you like we're already filtering You've got the least crazy version of what have came out of here ⁓ like, ⁓ know Sarah Drew: Yes, yes. Do you know what think is really interesting ⁓ that was just making me think about how, I don't know, just the things that happen in our brains. I love the metaphor of having this wild signet power that for her cannot be focused unless she's holding that orb. Isn't she holding a thing, right? has to be. that's hooked too. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Right. Courtney Richter: Right, that's in book two, in book two. Yeah, but yes, still, it's okay. She gets a conduit. She gets a conduit. Sarah Drew: All right. Well, so I just say something about it because I think it's I think it's very I think it's so fascinating because I've actually used it as a teaching moment for my kids because we have big, huge emotions. We can go to anger. We can go to rage. We can go to insecurity. We can go like in all these places. But but the work of life is learning how to fo- like Caitlin Stryker: But carry on, that's okay. wanna know, right? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I'm so fascinated. Do carry on. Courtney Richter: Hmm Sarah Drew: bring those into a place that can be contained and then you pour it out in a way that's healthy and good, right? So instead of raging at somebody and lashing out and slugging them in the face, you're like, ⁓ the anger is so big. I feel it in all of the cells of my body. If you can visualize pouring all of that anger into a smaller, containable thing, Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Drew: And then you go, where am I going to release this? Where it's okay, where it's healthy, where I can feel the release without it hurting anyone else, without it causing damage anywhere else, where it can be specific. And sometimes pulling all of that big emotion into a place, like we release it through art. We release it through dance. We release it through, sometimes it's like, we have a pillow fight or punch a pillow or whatever. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: It is, but I used it as an analogy for one of my kids at a specific moment when things were feeling really wild. I was like, what if you start to carry like a little stone in your pocket? And whenever you're feeling those very, very, very big feelings, you just visualize pouring all of that energy into this stone. And then you know that it's contained in the stone and then you can release it in a place that feels good and safe. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: when you find the right and good place to release it. Like that's what it is to, right, manage our emotions and learn how to shape them and navigate them. Because sometimes those big feelings are a superpower. Like the ability to feel things in very big ways are actually like a gift to the world. You just can't go around smashing people with your emotions, right? So I just... Courtney Richter: ⁓ I love that. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: masks. I love that. Yes. They are, yes. Yes. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yes! No, yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Sarah Drew: For me, that was one of the most powerful images of the whole series to me. It's like, can't contain it because it's flying all over the place. But when she finally figures out how to collect it and then focus it, then she's able to live into her full potential. It's really cool. Courtney Richter: I love that so much. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes, totally. I think it's, love that. I think that is so cool. And I, that's kind of one of the things that I love about these books, like the romance and romantasy books. And, ⁓ there's a part of me that's like, just, I prefer this over the self-help section. Like this is more fun. You know, I'd rather, ⁓ I get a lot more sense of empowerment and all that. And, and like ideas on like, you know, like you're saying with like channeling and I love that. Courtney Richter: Yeah. I love it so much. Sarah Drew: ⁓ yes! Caitlin Stryker: And then I'm saying it's like mindset work and it's like helping me figure that out. You know, like, this is such a more fun way. There's like dragons and fairies and you know, like happening too. Yeah. Sarah Drew: Yes, but what are those lessons? Courtney Richter: Even Sarah Drew: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah, it's a even in partnerships like I find because I you know, and all of us in a healthy relationship with our partners like usually it makes me more excited about my partner and turn on by them or makes me appreciate like the things I see about them that I'll see in characters and like, ⁓ I've got my own version of this and it makes me feel like really good about it. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Courtney Richter: And I think the opposite could be true. Like if you're reading this and really feeling like your partner's lacking or going, it might be something to listen to. and not like they don't need to be six, four and against the wall. Like if they are good for you, but if not, Yeah, congrats. Actually after reading this recently. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah! Yeah! No. Congratulations. ⁓ Sarah Drew: you Congratulations! You win! Courtney Richter: read this book and then I watched a show that had Hugh Grant Nicole Kidman was some show like a miniseries they did. And Hugh Grant had some like young woman up against a wall fucking her and I remember being like, he wouldn't be able to do that now. Like there's no fucking way this sixty year old man is fucking this girl against a wall. Like that's not happening. Caitlin Stryker: Hahaha! Sarah Drew: Kids would give out. Caitlin Stryker: No. Sarah Drew: Yeah. Nope. Nope. Courtney Richter: I need my romanticies back. have no interest in this. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, like I'm going back to my books. ⁓ Sarah Drew: Go spend some time with my book boyfriend. Courtney Richter: Which can we say like that scene there are two big sex scenes there one with the armoire and everything breaking and the lightning and the shadows and then the one when they're like we're going for two and all of sudden like we decided to go for five and there's something about the descriptor of him her saying like he lifts her up and bring her back down when they're getting the pounding on the door that however that was written and I read so much Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yes. Courtney Richter: smut and spicy scenes. But there's something about that one that's just like always stuck in my brain is just this like, super hot scene that I may have recreated minus someone coming into the door. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: You ⁓ Hahaha! Ha! Sarah Drew: Yes! Good, good. That's a good important detail. Caitlin Stryker: detail. Courtney Richter: Not needing to get out to formation. Sarah Drew: change I mean, to each their own, really? ⁓ Courtney Richter: two kids in the house, there's always a risk. ⁓ Sarah Drew: Gosh, that's so funny. Caitlin Stryker: I love it. Okay, so on that note, I want to know, all right, Court, let's talk about the pumpkin spice meter level of this one. So ⁓ Sarah, because we, ⁓ Courtney Richter: It's great. Yes. Okay. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Court and I are totally basic bitches who love all things fall and pumpkin spice lattes and Gilmore Girls and we are just we're leaning into that. ⁓ We decided that our spice meter is based off of like a pumpkin level. So it's one pumpkin, two pumpkin, three pumpkin and then you get sassy pumpkin, which is four and sexy pumpkin, which is five. And it's basically like, would you read it in public? Would you read it on bus? Or ⁓ is it like, no, that's like, ⁓ I couldn't. ⁓ Up until like a three, maybe you would read it in public. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Three and a half is like bus safe and then four is like, nope, need to be behind closed doors. And then five is like Zodiac Academy kind of thing. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Sarah Drew: Hmm ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Sarah Drew: Is Zodiac Academy just like sex all the time? Courtney Richter: It's not no, it's not all the time. But it's like, the sex they do have. And then there's like, group sex and orgies and then like switching partners and going but I will say it's it is it's written really well, though, like not I there's things that I didn't expect to enjoy them like, oh, but it's it's a when you jump in, you should definitely read it. But it's like a fever dream. It goes on for nine books and you're like, what the fuck. But it's like a good to do. Caitlin Stryker: The way people talk about it, it's gotta be. Sarah Drew: ⁓ lord. Caitlin Stryker: takes it to a lot of fun. Mm. Yeah. Sarah Drew: Like in terms of like how would you rate Silver Flames Because that felt, that's the spiciest I've read. Courtney Richter: Silver flames. Okay, so Silver Flames would probably put three a half to four. I put Silver Flames on that four because they do get in right there. Yeah, yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, I would put it at the four because that one I think we did rate at a four. ⁓ We rated it as a four out of five. Courtney Richter: Yeah, they do. Sarah Drew: four so the highest so as a four out of five okay okay that gives that makes that is helpful in terms of reading Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, cause the Cassian and Nesta is... Often we disagree. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah, but everyone's is different. So like, so Court's spice Court is she she can handle more spice or she she's like, I don't think it's that spicy. And I'm like, are you kidding? Dude, this is a four, she's like, ⁓ it's like a three. And I'm like, what? ⁓ She's like, it's really hard for me to give it a four if there's only two people involved. And I'm like, okay, wait. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Hahaha! ⁓ Sarah Drew: ⁓ my gosh, I love it. Courtney Richter: Yeah. No, that's a five! A five I can't do when there's only two people involved, generally speaking, because of what I've read when there's more, and then you're like, okay, well that's a five. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Sarah Drew: Okay, got it. So you can't even get to a five if there's only two people. Courtney Richter: me because of comparatively. Caitlin Stryker: For court, not for me. I can take other or some where I'm like, listen, this is like so hot. Courtney Richter: Like, Heated Rivalry is a four. It's like a high four, but it's still not... The book's so good. So good. Caitlin Stryker: That's like a four and a half. ⁓ the book is so good. The show is so good. And it really, mean, it really stays faithful to to the book. But the book is like, yeah. And the book, the listen, the book is a is a is a solid four. Like that is a four to a four and a half because they can go it's totally X rated because you're reading it. Sarah Drew: I've only seen it. Okay. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah, but then you get all the thoughts, the books just in the heart, in the heart of the even more. And the second one's really good too. Sarah Drew: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Courtney Richter: Yeah, it's probably a four and a half for you Cait. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: You know, I don't want them to show that on TV. No, that's porn. That's actually porn. I don't want the actors to have to do that. ⁓ I'm really just worried about the actors. I'm like, that's not fair to them. Sarah Drew: No, no, no, you'd get uncomfortable. You'd be like, ⁓ you didn't sign up for this. Courtney Richter: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sarah Drew: So funny. Heated Rivalry the show got, it got, ⁓ I pretty more explicit than anything I've ever seen. Caitlin Stryker: Bye! Courtney Richter: No, it did. It was spicy. Yeah, it definitely gets spicy. And so it's kind of like if you took the Heated Rivalry book, like enjoyment, that's part of it that was like, I can't believe how much I'm enjoying this. That's kind like what Zodiac Academy does because they have like different fantastical characters. So the werewolves do a lot of like group sex things. But it's kind of written in similar way that it's all just fun and enjoyable. Yeah. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so for Fourth Wing, I, for me, this one is a three and a half pumpkin. For me. Yeah. Once, cause once we, yeah. Sarah. Yeah. Sarah Drew: interesting. Okay. Courtney Richter: you Okay, yeah. Yeah, for me it's a three. Yeah, because it's only the two scenes. Sarah Drew: Yeah, that's what I would say just because the volume is small. And actually stays pretty consistent. It's not like a ton in any of other books either. I feel like it's pretty, like if we're talking the difference between that and Silver Flames was like so many scenes. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. ⁓ really? Okay, I'm surprised it doesn't give more. Courtney Richter: Yeah, it's pretty similar. I Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. So many scenes. I always see the dining room. Silver Flames for me is the dining room one, you know? Sarah Drew: So many scenes and like really intense descriptors. Courtney Richter: Bye! Mm-hmm. Sarah Drew: my girl, my throne. no, you haven't gotten there. Is that, is that you? Okay, nevermind. ⁓ there's a scene in Iron Flame ⁓ Courtney Richter: No, that's Iron Flame Yeah. My chair, my throne. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say Iron Flame slightly spicier, slightly, but probably like a 0.5 higher. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ there's the... Sarah Drew: Yeah, yeah, I would say that too. Caitlin Stryker: Okay. Yeah. Well, and what's interesting, wait, we didn't get Sarah's rating yet. Sarah Drew: Yeah, I would say probably three or three and a half, between three, three and a half. But the scenes themselves, if you just like took the scene itself, it's very spicy. It's like a four, I think. It's very descriptive, super descriptive. Courtney Richter: ⁓ yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah. It's like what's interesting. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Very. Well, I think what's pumping it up to the half for me is I was so affected by the fact that their dragons being involved with one another, like, affected them. I was like, we've got creature action here. Courtney Richter: It's super fun. It's super fun. Okay, so that did it for me. The creature action did not do it for me, actually. The creature action is a little bit for me of like a, I'm just gonna not think about it. I don't know why. I mean, I know why, like, whatever reason, the dragon's getting on is not like a thing for me. And then I'm like, okay. yes. That kiss. Sarah Drew: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: No, no, but it was the way that it affected them. Like the way that it like was like it wasn't the dragon's eyes. Sarah Drew: Well, and She described that effect really, really well, where you're like, woo, yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yeah, yeah. But that kiss alone, even though was just a kiss. It's the best fuck it that's been written as we already said, but when he's just like, fuck it. And then they're just at it and on the wall and whatever. like, it's so hot. That kiss you just like Caitlin Stryker: Really well. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Drew: Yeah, that kids with crazy pants. So good. Caitlin Stryker: us. Yeah. Sarah Drew: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, I was I was very disappointed when it didn't go further. I was like, God damn it. Courtney Richter: Yeah, I'm waiting more. Sarah Drew: you Because... Totally. Courtney Richter: It does keep you waiting and also like the idea of shadow play. I'm like, oh my god, that would be such a game changer. You just use his shadows or everything like. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Sarah Drew: Hahaha! Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yes. Some superpowers in the bedroom, yeah. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yeah. And mind talking like, ⁓ my gosh, you don't even have to communicate it. You can hear each other and the way they like it should be the pinnacle. Sarah Drew: ⁓ my gosh. way they talk to each other is so, yeah, crazy. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, it's amazing. That's so good. ⁓ Well, this has been amazing. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. It was really fun to have you ⁓ And I'm so, ⁓ thrilled that I'm finally on the Fourth Wing train. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. Yeah. Yes! Sarah Drew: Yay! This was so fun! Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: And yeah, yeah, so you know, that's it for this episode of Cait and Court's Cozy Corner. Thank you all for listening. We will be back soon with more fun books and more fun guests and just more fun times. So keep reading, stay cozy, and we'll talk to you soon. Bye. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Bye.