Latest / Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality / 049: Intentional Visibility: The Story People Tell About You

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049: Intentional Visibility: The Story People Tell About You · Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey in at Hey, Sandra.
0:02
Speaker 2: After we recorded our last episode, I realized that I
0:07
Speaker 2: had made a mistake in answering one of your questions.
0:11
Speaker 2: And because I made that mistake, yeah, it took us
0:13
Speaker 2: on a totally different tangent. So what you had actually
0:17
Speaker 2: asked me was what does visibility mean? That's so vague?
0:23
Speaker 2: Instead of answering that question, I went off on this
0:26
Speaker 2: tangent describing what safety feels like. The concepts are related,
0:33
Speaker 2: as we talked about in our last episode forty eight,
0:37
Speaker 2: but they're not the same conversation. So I was wondering
0:40
Speaker 2: if today we could go back to your original question.
0:43
Speaker 1: I love that, and I think that this is a
0:45
Speaker 1: good thing that happens because safety has to come first.
0:50
Speaker 1: And I think that's what we discovered over the course
0:53
Speaker 1: of episode zero four eight, is that safety is that
0:56
Speaker 1: that foundation that visibility is built upon. But once we've
1:00
Speaker 1: done that work, then the question is like, what are
1:03
Speaker 1: we actually trying to become visible for? And then we
1:07
Speaker 1: can ask what does visibility really mean?
1:10
Speaker 2: I love this.
1:11
Speaker 1: So if you two struggle with this concept of what
1:14
Speaker 1: does visibility really mean? How do I become visible? Sandra?
1:18
Speaker 1: And I invite you to follow and subscribe so that
1:21
Speaker 1: you can be a part of the conversations that are
1:23
Speaker 1: ongoing from this point forward.
1:25
Speaker 2: So Annette, let's start first with redefining what visibility means,
1:31
Speaker 2: because most people think when we think visibility, especially I
1:35
Speaker 2: think as an entrepreneur, we're thinking about LinkedIn, We're thinking
1:39
Speaker 2: about being visible at networking events, maybe doing public speaking,
1:43
Speaker 2: and when what I know, when I would think about
1:46
Speaker 2: it from a corporate perspective, I'd often think about it
1:49
Speaker 2: from internal networking, but also self promotion, and I know
1:54
Speaker 2: that that is a kind of an awful not an awful,
1:58
Speaker 2: but more of a complex term that for I think
2:02
Speaker 2: for a lot of women, feels really uncomfortable.
2:05
Speaker 1: I think visibility is a lot of different things depending
2:08
Speaker 1: on where you're at, who you work for. Do you
2:10
Speaker 1: work for yourself? Are you in a corporation? I would
2:14
Speaker 1: say that I define visibility as allowing yourself to be
2:19
Speaker 1: seen by others as you want to be seen, and
2:23
Speaker 1: being able to get noticed and not have to rely
2:28
Speaker 1: on being noticed. That's something I think that a lot
2:32
Speaker 1: of women were told early in your career, Right, you
2:35
Speaker 1: do a good job, and Sandra, you'll be noticed. You
2:39
Speaker 1: you show up on time, and you will be noticed,
2:42
Speaker 1: and that's just simply not true. Maybe it was true
2:45
Speaker 1: at one time, I doubt it. I feel like it's
2:47
Speaker 1: something that women were told in the workplace, so it's
2:50
Speaker 1: not true. And so you have to step into yourself
2:54
Speaker 1: to be visible so that people know who you are,
2:57
Speaker 1: know what you contribute, know if they need your help
2:59
Speaker 1: at work, if they need your help if you're an entrepreneur.
3:02
Speaker 1: And I don't know that was a clear definition, but
3:04
Speaker 1: those are the things that come to mind when I
3:06
Speaker 1: try and to find visibility.
3:08
Speaker 2: How Lo for you, I love that. Yeah, I've been
3:10
Speaker 2: spending a lot of time with this topic in particular
3:14
Speaker 2: the last two months, and I really like what we
3:17
Speaker 2: said at one of the earlier sessions where we were
3:20
Speaker 2: talking about stories that we netted out with, which was
3:24
Speaker 2: what do you want to be known for?
3:26
Speaker 1: I think that's a huge one and they can relate
3:28
Speaker 1: to every part exactly exactly.
3:31
Speaker 2: So you know, as an entrepreneur, it's not just what
3:35
Speaker 2: did I do, but it's what do I stand for?
3:38
Speaker 2: What is my thought leadership? What is my position on
3:41
Speaker 2: certain things, which honestly can be very triggering, especially right
3:46
Speaker 2: now when the world is so divided. Thankfully. You know,
3:49
Speaker 2: my job or the job that I choose to do,
3:52
Speaker 2: doesn't require me to have to express my views politically often,
3:58
Speaker 2: and so I can focus on what I think it
4:01
Speaker 2: means to be human. I can focus on what it
4:04
Speaker 2: means to be trauma informed. I can focus on the
4:07
Speaker 2: things that I want people to know about what it's
4:11
Speaker 2: like to work with me. So, yeah, I think it's
4:13
Speaker 2: about what matters to me, what is it that I
4:16
Speaker 2: contribute to, how do I think? And then really not
4:21
Speaker 2: visibility from the perspective of I want to be on
4:24
Speaker 2: stage because I just want to be on stage and
4:26
Speaker 2: I want people to see me. But it's about creating
4:30
Speaker 2: leadership around those items who I am and what I
4:36
Speaker 2: think about and how I help people so that people
4:39
Speaker 2: can self identify as to whether I'm somebody that they
4:42
Speaker 2: want to work with. Visibility to me is more about
4:46
Speaker 2: do you understand who I am? You don't understand who
4:49
Speaker 2: I am? What do I need to share with you
4:51
Speaker 2: about myself so that you do understand who I am? Yes,
4:57
Speaker 2: So can you talk a little bit about how that
5:00
Speaker 2: might work and say, like a corporate culture or from
5:03
Speaker 2: a career rather than as an entrepreneur.
5:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, in a corporate career or a career inside of
5:09
Speaker 1: an organization, whether that's for profit or a nonprofit organization.
5:13
Speaker 1: I still believe what you're saying holds all true a
5:17
Speaker 1: lot of it, especially what kind of value do you deliver?
5:21
Speaker 1: What can people rely on you for? What sort of
5:24
Speaker 1: jams can you help people get out of? And that
5:28
Speaker 1: can become part of your personal brand, and that is
5:32
Speaker 1: the thing that gained you visibility. So thinking back to
5:35
Speaker 1: my own career, right, there'd be somebody let's go way back.
5:40
Speaker 1: Let's go way back to my telecom days. You used
5:42
Speaker 1: to have to code a phone line, and you used
5:45
Speaker 1: to have to actually know the code that made the
5:48
Speaker 1: phone lines ring and work. Anyways, if there was somebody
5:52
Speaker 1: at the call center that I worked and they could
5:54
Speaker 1: not get the phone line to work, they'd be like,
5:56
Speaker 1: take it to a net. She'll tell you in a second,
5:59
Speaker 1: which you missed. And so that was something that it
6:02
Speaker 1: used to be known for. Even when I wasn't a
6:05
Speaker 1: leader or a trainer, I was just a rap on
6:09
Speaker 1: the phone like everybody else, like those four hundred people
6:11
Speaker 1: that work there. But I could spot that thing and
6:15
Speaker 1: that was something that helped me be visible. So then
6:17
Speaker 1: when they were looking for customer service reps to act
6:19
Speaker 1: as lead customer service reps, I had that opportunity because
6:23
Speaker 1: I was visible in that way. And then when they
6:25
Speaker 1: asked for people that used to be leads to come
6:29
Speaker 1: into the classroom and train the new hires, that's some
6:32
Speaker 1: extra visibility. So what is that value you deliver that
6:35
Speaker 1: you're comfortable delivering that doesn't drain you to death? And
6:39
Speaker 1: can you use it as the stepping stone to how
6:42
Speaker 1: you want to be viewed next, which could be a
6:45
Speaker 1: promotion or could be a different role altogether. But what
6:48
Speaker 1: does that look like and maybe purposefully mapping it out
6:51
Speaker 1: and not letting your chance your early career up to
6:53
Speaker 1: chance like I did.
6:55
Speaker 2: And I think I love what you're saying there because
6:58
Speaker 2: I think what I left our car conversation with or
7:01
Speaker 2: what I after I replayed our conversation over and over
7:05
Speaker 2: in my head and I realized you had asked me
7:08
Speaker 2: the different question than the one that I had answered.
7:11
Speaker 2: What really came through for me is intentional visibility versus
7:15
Speaker 2: accidental visibility. Right, Yes, so people are going to see us, period,
7:21
Speaker 2: They're going to make assumptions about us, doesn't matter. The
7:25
Speaker 2: real question is how can we be intentional about what
7:30
Speaker 2: is said, how it's said, what we share. And that
7:34
Speaker 2: really stayed with me for a long time. And I
7:36
Speaker 2: think what you just referenced there about stories is so
7:41
Speaker 2: important because there's going to be stories about us, whether
7:46
Speaker 2: we need them to be there or not. What is
7:48
Speaker 2: the intentional story that we want to carry with us?
7:53
Speaker 2: And even then, how do we even know?
7:57
Speaker 1: Yes? I mean so, I think that there's us correct
8:02
Speaker 1: as entrepreneurs, our potential clients give us clues all the time.
8:07
Speaker 1: They ask questions under our social media post, and that's
8:11
Speaker 1: a clue about how somebody wants to be perceived or
8:15
Speaker 1: information that they need about us. Same thing in a
8:19
Speaker 1: corporate environment, as Sandra, you are in a big corporation
8:22
Speaker 1: for many, many many years. What does your boss value,
8:27
Speaker 1: what does their boss value? What are your goals? What
8:30
Speaker 1: are the KPIs that you have to achieve every month
8:33
Speaker 1: or every quarter? Those are clues, and that's where you
8:37
Speaker 1: can build an intentional visibility story that you have successfully
8:42
Speaker 1: done this or that, or you have achieved that goal
8:46
Speaker 1: and that goal and you do it month after month
8:48
Speaker 1: after month. Those are great ways to start the visibility.
8:52
Speaker 1: And then once you're in the rooms, and you're assigned
8:55
Speaker 1: to a stretch project or you're asked to help outside
8:59
Speaker 1: of your own department, then you can expand that intentional
9:03
Speaker 1: visibility story. And one other way that you can be
9:07
Speaker 1: more visible is get outside of your team. And you
9:12
Speaker 1: can do that by joining the employee resource groups or
9:15
Speaker 1: the business resource groups. You can do that by joining
9:18
Speaker 1: the volunteer activities. You know what, everybody goes out into
9:22
Speaker 1: the community. Get involved with that because many times you're
9:26
Speaker 1: assigned into groups that you would have never encountered those
9:29
Speaker 1: people if you were walking by them in the office,
9:32
Speaker 1: or you're waiting to get assigned to a project with
9:35
Speaker 1: them on it, and that can lift your visibility and
9:39
Speaker 1: help you be seen by others with your intentional visibility story,
9:43
Speaker 1: whatever story you've decided to tell.
9:44
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here with so many thoughts as I listened
9:47
Speaker 2: to what you just said. Let's talk a little bit
9:49
Speaker 2: about how we can get especially in a corporate environment,
9:54
Speaker 2: because this is something that I think a lot of
9:55
Speaker 2: women that we talk to face all the time. Yes,
10:00
Speaker 2: how do I talk about my accomplishments? How can I
10:06
Speaker 2: talk about what I do well and not feel kind
10:12
Speaker 2: of icky about it? Like I feel like, hey, I'm
10:15
Speaker 2: just bringing this up so you know I was really
10:17
Speaker 2: excellent in Project Y and Z. I think that's a
10:22
Speaker 2: place to start.
10:24
Speaker 1: I think it feels icky in the beginning because it's
10:28
Speaker 1: not something natural. So permission to feel icky, permission to
10:33
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable, and also permission to practice. So I want
10:39
Speaker 1: to challenge a lot of people listening on their one
10:43
Speaker 1: on ones. So one on one meetings are usually one
10:46
Speaker 1: of two things. People love them or they hate them.
10:49
Speaker 1: So if you hate them, I need to try and
10:51
Speaker 1: win you over to the love them side. Okay, maybe
10:54
Speaker 1: I just want to bring you over to the tolerate
10:56
Speaker 1: them side. But they're the place to practice your store.
11:00
Speaker 1: So use that meeting as an intentional practice stage to
11:05
Speaker 1: talk about how you've achieved it. And then you need
11:07
Speaker 1: to get your leader on board with you and say
11:11
Speaker 1: what does this story do for you? How does this
11:15
Speaker 1: help you show value for your team so that you
11:19
Speaker 1: can learn how your leader is thinking, so that you
11:22
Speaker 1: can create and generate more stories.
11:26
Speaker 2: So wait a minute, let me ask you a question there. Yeah, yeah,
11:29
Speaker 2: lets say, how does this help you build your story?
11:34
Speaker 2: That's a question I'm asking my boss directly.
11:36
Speaker 1: It is yeah, you're going to ask your boss, listen,
11:39
Speaker 1: this success, this thing that I've been achieving, how does
11:43
Speaker 1: this help you? Tell me how this helps you? Do
11:45
Speaker 1: I need to do that much around this project? Or
11:48
Speaker 1: is this a throwaway project where you had to give
11:51
Speaker 1: a body to it and you don't care? What do
11:54
Speaker 1: they want to know about? And then also you're going
11:59
Speaker 1: to use that time to break free of any roadblocks
12:04
Speaker 1: that you've been experiencing at work. You're going to get
12:07
Speaker 1: them to help you navigate the organization so you can
12:11
Speaker 1: see what's going on at a bigger, wider level than
12:14
Speaker 1: the visibility you have from your chair.
12:16
Speaker 2: That's so good because I think too it offers your
12:19
Speaker 2: boss and opportunity to maybe talk about perception.
12:22
Speaker 1: That's the piece you were talking about, right, You're saying
12:25
Speaker 1: this story that people are going to create or develop
12:28
Speaker 1: or tell about you. Have you seen that meme? I
12:31
Speaker 1: think it's on Instagram where they're like, the back of
12:33
Speaker 1: my hair it's none of my business, right because I
12:36
Speaker 1: can't see it.
12:37
Speaker 3: There's nothing that I can do to fix the back
12:41
Speaker 3: of my hair. I have to hope that it's pleasing
12:44
Speaker 3: to people that are standing behind me, But I don't
12:47
Speaker 3: know that, so other people's opinions of you is like
12:50
Speaker 3: the back of your hair.
12:52
Speaker 1: You know they exist, but there's not a darn thing
12:54
Speaker 1: you can do about it. You're going to be okay
12:57
Speaker 1: with not managing to other people's perception of you. All
13:01
Speaker 1: you can do is say, here's how I want to
13:04
Speaker 1: be perceived. Here's the things I've achieved, here's the things
13:07
Speaker 1: I've done, Here's how it's helped you, your team, your organization.
13:12
Speaker 1: And you keep telling that story with enough frequency and
13:16
Speaker 1: enough success that people will say, ugh, a net's back
13:19
Speaker 1: of her hair is the hot mess express but I
13:21
Speaker 1: really like what she does for my organization when she
13:25
Speaker 1: does this, The fact that she achieves this goal every
13:27
Speaker 1: month is really good for me and my team. And
13:30
Speaker 1: then that other story, whatever it is, I drive a
13:33
Speaker 1: bad car, my hair is a mess. Whatever that other
13:35
Speaker 1: story is it's circulating about me, becomes a non issue
13:39
Speaker 1: because I get success in other areas.
13:42
Speaker 2: I'm sitting with the one because I realized what I
13:45
Speaker 2: did wrong, or or not what I could have done better.
13:49
Speaker 2: Maybe not what I did wrong, but what I could
13:50
Speaker 2: have done better in my own one on ones with
13:53
Speaker 2: my immediate supervisors. But I'm also thinking as a person
13:58
Speaker 2: who had people reporting to her, I could have asked
14:01
Speaker 2: my team members, how do you think this work that
14:05
Speaker 2: you're doing contributes to the department, to the organization, to
14:11
Speaker 2: our clients, and allow them to think about it from
14:15
Speaker 2: the perspective of how do I talk about this with
14:19
Speaker 2: people who don't have the visibility into my work but
14:22
Speaker 2: who are higher up the organizational chain that I could
14:26
Speaker 2: create visibility with.
14:28
Speaker 1: Yes, and as a leader, Sandra, is there a way
14:32
Speaker 1: you can send your team members in to represent you?
14:35
Speaker 1: You don't have to be gone for a week's vacation
14:39
Speaker 1: to have people attend meetings on your behalf. You can
14:42
Speaker 1: give them an opportunity to be seen, be more visible,
14:46
Speaker 1: make a bigger contribution, see what happens at cross functional meetings,
14:51
Speaker 1: because you can send them to those meetings, and then
14:54
Speaker 1: you might actually be able to free yourself up for
14:57
Speaker 1: something else. Visibility works in a lot of different ways.
15:01
Speaker 1: But I'm back to that question that you ask, which
15:04
Speaker 1: is what do I want to be known for? So?
15:06
Speaker 1: Do you want to be known for creating opportunities for
15:09
Speaker 1: your team? Do you want to be known for questioning
15:12
Speaker 1: them and helping them think or think more big picture?
15:15
Speaker 1: Do you want to be known for having great one
15:18
Speaker 1: on ones that challenge question and create a difference in
15:22
Speaker 1: the organization. I would say yes to all those things.
15:25
Speaker 1: And then from the team member experience, it's a little uncomfortable,
15:29
Speaker 1: but you do it anyways, and then you turn it
15:31
Speaker 1: into something that works for you and helps you get seen.
15:34
Speaker 2: So the other thing that I'm sitting with is you
15:37
Speaker 2: go to this meeting, or you're on a project that's
15:41
Speaker 2: a stretch project. Yeah, and you make a mistake. And
15:45
Speaker 2: though that now becomes part of the public narrative, right, it.
15:49
Speaker 1: Can be how can you own that mistake and turn
15:53
Speaker 1: it into an opportunity for learning, And how can you
15:56
Speaker 1: be just as visible with that mistake as you are
15:59
Speaker 1: with your sexes us Because what I find is when
16:02
Speaker 1: we shrink and we try and distance ourselves from that,
16:06
Speaker 1: that often makes it worse. But when you own it,
16:08
Speaker 1: when you step up, when you meet with all the
16:10
Speaker 1: people involved and say, I didn't realize this was a mistake,
16:13
Speaker 1: I didn't realize the impact this would make. I'm clear
16:16
Speaker 1: on it. Now, tell me what I need to know
16:18
Speaker 1: from your perspective, You're going to win a lot more
16:22
Speaker 1: relationships with that attitude. Than you are. If you just
16:25
Speaker 1: disappear and see to your boss, I'm never going to
16:28
Speaker 1: those meetings again.
16:29
Speaker 2: I'm an idiot. I said recently that visibility is kind
16:33
Speaker 2: of like a hot stove analogy for me personally, I've
16:37
Speaker 2: had a lot of experiences in my life where something happened,
16:41
Speaker 2: it had an impact that was far beyond what I
16:45
Speaker 2: ever envisioned. And then, of course the stories that came
16:48
Speaker 2: back as a result. Did you really say this at
16:51
Speaker 2: that meeting? Was that person really there? And did you
16:55
Speaker 2: really tell them X and Y? And of course you're mortified, right,
17:00
Speaker 2: or like, how did everybody get that from what was
17:04
Speaker 2: actually said at the meeting? And you know, you want
17:06
Speaker 2: all the details who said that, Why did they say that?
17:09
Speaker 2: That's not what I said? And it becomes very defensive.
17:14
Speaker 1: It can be.
17:15
Speaker 2: It can be very defensive, especially if what the narrative
17:19
Speaker 2: that's coming back it has been blown out of proportion
17:23
Speaker 2: or is maybe more negative or more critical than what
17:26
Speaker 2: you had intended. And so I think about, how do
17:31
Speaker 2: we spend time separating the part of the story that
17:35
Speaker 2: is ours to carry versus, you know, the part of
17:38
Speaker 2: the story that we can't do anything about because it
17:41
Speaker 2: relates to how other people perceive.
17:43
Speaker 1: Us, and I'm going to ask you that question. So
17:46
Speaker 1: we talked about stories. Oh my gosh, going all the
17:50
Speaker 1: way back to episode forty two, and there's different pieces
17:54
Speaker 1: and parts. I think what we came to together is
17:57
Speaker 1: that people will have stories about you. So what is
18:01
Speaker 1: the story that you have and how do you tell it?
18:05
Speaker 1: How do you own it? How do you say this
18:08
Speaker 1: piece is mine and the rest is opc other people's crap.
18:11
Speaker 1: If I were to channel if I were to channel
18:14
Speaker 1: my inner Sandra, that's what I'd say. I think reviewing
18:18
Speaker 1: the story with someone is a great way to do that.
18:20
Speaker 1: Is that person your boss, is that person you're in
18:22
Speaker 1: a formal mentor is that person somebody else that was
18:25
Speaker 1: at the meeting with you? And then what you can
18:27
Speaker 1: do is go round robin and have those individual one
18:32
Speaker 1: on one meetings, share from your perspective what the intention was,
18:36
Speaker 1: what you were looking for, and that you realize it
18:39
Speaker 1: didn't happen that way. So can they help you or
18:42
Speaker 1: rewrite the story? Would they be willing to say something
18:44
Speaker 1: in the next meeting? Would they send a note to
18:47
Speaker 1: whoever's recording the meeting notes and say, listen this is
18:51
Speaker 1: the thing that should be in there. There's so many things.
18:54
Speaker 1: How would you, yeah, how would you handle this OPC
18:57
Speaker 1: part of the story.
18:59
Speaker 2: One of the things that we had talked about in
19:01
Speaker 2: an earlier episode was just being aware that there's internal
19:05
Speaker 2: self talk that's happening, right, and understanding that there's a
19:09
Speaker 2: nervous system reaction in addition to the reaction to what's
19:15
Speaker 2: being said by whom you know. Maybe the nervous system
19:19
Speaker 2: reaction is bigger because of the person that's saying it
19:23
Speaker 2: to you, yes, versus what is being said right, because
19:28
Speaker 2: you carry a story about that person, right, and therefore
19:33
Speaker 2: the fact that they're asking you about this, you can
19:35
Speaker 2: make it a bigger thing than it needs to be.
19:38
Speaker 2: So just noticing the nervous system what's happening in your
19:42
Speaker 2: body as you're sitting there hearing this is so important.
19:46
Speaker 2: And then I think this is one of the things
19:48
Speaker 2: that a coach can really help with. And what I
19:53
Speaker 2: mean by that is it's not really easy sometimes to
19:57
Speaker 2: figure out what should I do, because because our initial
20:01
Speaker 2: response might be I gotta go fix this, and in
20:04
Speaker 2: the I gotta go fix this, we make the problem worse.
20:08
Speaker 1: Yes, so possible.
20:10
Speaker 2: And often what's getting triggered from a nervous system response
20:15
Speaker 2: perspective is a bigger, deeper story than the one that
20:20
Speaker 2: is being told about us in the moment, and working
20:23
Speaker 2: with a coach to excavate that story can be very
20:28
Speaker 2: helpful in terms of either working through the triggering events
20:34
Speaker 2: that led to that story and coming to peace with
20:39
Speaker 2: that story, because that story doesn't define who you are
20:42
Speaker 2: as a person either, or can unearth some trauma that
20:48
Speaker 2: you didn't even know you were carrying, in which case
20:51
Speaker 2: than a referral to an excellent therapist can be very
20:57
Speaker 2: helpful in coming to a better understanding of why you're
21:01
Speaker 2: carrying or what happened as a result of that trauma.
21:04
Speaker 2: So this is why I say working with a coach
21:06
Speaker 2: can be incredibly helpful when you run into this situation
21:11
Speaker 2: because we're not often aware of our what it is
21:14
Speaker 2: that we're carrying, that's being that the nervous system reaction
21:18
Speaker 2: is is what's underneath the nervous system reaction. And so
21:23
Speaker 2: when you work with a coach or you work, I
21:26
Speaker 2: mean you could also work with a really good trusted advisor,
21:29
Speaker 2: I would caution that what you don't want is somebody
21:34
Speaker 2: who's going to solve the problem for you. What you
21:36
Speaker 2: want is somebody who's going to ask you probing questions
21:39
Speaker 2: that are going to be able to allow you to
21:42
Speaker 2: sit and excavate and on earth what it is that's
21:46
Speaker 2: happening underneath the reaction. And then once you understand that.
21:52
Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing for me was understanding who
21:54
Speaker 2: I am and how I impact others. And as a result,
21:59
Speaker 2: I can be a little more centered. I say a
22:03
Speaker 2: little more because there's always from their improvement, but I
22:07
Speaker 2: can be more centered in evaluating the commentary that I
22:11
Speaker 2: get when I triggered the responses that in the past
22:15
Speaker 2: might have really impacted me, and now I can detach
22:20
Speaker 2: a little bit more from it. But that was a
22:22
Speaker 2: lot of personal work that I did to understand what's
22:27
Speaker 2: happening underneath that.
22:28
Speaker 1: I love that you were able to unearth that. And
22:31
Speaker 1: I have a question for you, because what you're talking
22:35
Speaker 1: about with the trauma and unraveling the stories, what if
22:40
Speaker 1: the story is based out of fear and nothing that's
22:44
Speaker 1: actually happened yet correct. This is a challenge that a
22:49
Speaker 1: lot of my clients and potential clients people I just
22:52
Speaker 1: talked too casually about their careers. They have this deep
22:56
Speaker 1: fear that is not rooted in any sense of reality.
23:01
Speaker 1: It's just worry and doubt. And I dare say it's
23:07
Speaker 1: a strange form of perfectionism, but I'm not sure that
23:11
Speaker 1: that's exactly true either. It's definitely fear. Though all of.
23:16
Speaker 2: It is fear. At the very bottom of it is fear.
23:21
Speaker 2: And so the question I always ask is what is
23:24
Speaker 2: the fear? Yeah? Where did you learn that fear? Was
23:29
Speaker 2: there a time when that fear happened? I? You and
23:33
Speaker 2: I have talked in the past about mindset and how
23:36
Speaker 2: it's like nails on a blackboard for Sandra, Yeah, because
23:41
Speaker 2: calling it mindset implies that there's a good mindset and
23:44
Speaker 2: a bad mindset, or a favorable mindset and an unfavorable mindset.
23:50
Speaker 1: You mean a fixed and a growth mindset.
23:53
Speaker 2: No, I mean I mean that there are mindsets that
23:56
Speaker 2: people say are healthy versus unhealthy. And what I'm suggesting
24:01
Speaker 2: is all of our mindsets are healthy. They developed for
24:05
Speaker 2: healthy reasons. They helped us survive. They are adaptive skills.
24:12
Speaker 2: So that fear was adaptive at some point, it's no
24:17
Speaker 2: longer it might not be adaptive any longer. It might
24:23
Speaker 2: not be helpful at this particular point. But because we've
24:28
Speaker 2: never examined what's underneath that fear, it still keeps coming up. Yeah.
24:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear so many people worry and fear losing
24:40
Speaker 1: their jobs and not losing their jobs as in being
24:44
Speaker 1: laid off. There's not going to be a darn thing
24:46
Speaker 1: you can do about that about ninety nine point nine
24:49
Speaker 1: to nine percent of the time. But people who have
24:51
Speaker 1: never been fired for performance fearing being fired for performance,
24:57
Speaker 1: and that, wow, that is a wild story that you're.
25:01
Speaker 2: Here even if they haven't, they've had colleagues who have.
25:05
Speaker 1: Been Oh, I'm certain we all have.
25:08
Speaker 2: Right, And we've seen people fired for no reason at all,
25:11
Speaker 2: and we've seen the consequences of those firings, right, and
25:15
Speaker 2: we know what our financial reality is right now, and
25:19
Speaker 2: so imagining using that as fodder for imagining what might happen, that's.
25:28
Speaker 1: Very realistic, yes, and it can be crippling.
25:32
Speaker 2: Oh huge, Lisa, Yeah, yeah.
25:37
Speaker 1: I love that we can recognize these fears as stories, right,
25:43
Speaker 1: and then we can dismantle that story and say, where
25:46
Speaker 1: did that come from? Did it happen to me? Really
25:49
Speaker 1: evaluating it from an objective perspective, taking it outside of
25:54
Speaker 1: my head and heart and maybe committing it to paper,
25:58
Speaker 1: working it through with a coach, a very trusted mentor
26:02
Speaker 1: a therapist, and then deciding what that news story is.
26:08
Speaker 2: That we're going to as absolutely And something you said
26:13
Speaker 2: the part that I wrote down that I don't want
26:15
Speaker 2: to lose track of something you said when you were
26:18
Speaker 2: talking about asking your boss for feedback and what is
26:23
Speaker 2: it that they want? You know, it comes back to
26:27
Speaker 2: you were saying something about KPIs what does my boss
26:32
Speaker 2: think about that? What is my lost values? I think
26:36
Speaker 2: that's such an important conversation for two reasons. One because
26:40
Speaker 2: it's important to know how you're going to be evaluated
26:44
Speaker 2: true where I start to feel uncomfortable and do something
26:49
Speaker 2: that we ended up in episodes forty six and forty
26:55
Speaker 2: eight talking about, and that is but who am I
26:58
Speaker 2: authentically the right place? Right? Because if my boss values
27:05
Speaker 2: and what's really important and what my kprs KPIs or
27:11
Speaker 2: does not sit well with me, what do I do
27:14
Speaker 2: with that information?
27:17
Speaker 1: I say, first of all, congratulations you have that information,
27:21
Speaker 1: because what had happened If you didn't ask exactly, you
27:24
Speaker 1: wouldn't know. And then if you find out information that
27:30
Speaker 1: creates this incongruency for you, or creates this feeling of
27:36
Speaker 1: oh boy, they really am in the wrong place, then
27:39
Speaker 1: you can take action based on that. But had you
27:45
Speaker 1: not known, or had you keep canceling your one on
27:47
Speaker 1: one because you don't have any reason to talk to
27:50
Speaker 1: your boss, or you get a new boss and you
27:53
Speaker 1: don't want to have a one on one because you're
27:55
Speaker 1: a loyal to your old boss. These are all things
27:59
Speaker 1: that I think put career professionals at a disadvantage instead
28:04
Speaker 1: of an advantage. You cannot keep your head down, do
28:08
Speaker 1: your job, and a expect to be noticed or b
28:13
Speaker 1: hope nobody ever notices you. Because these same behaviors act
28:17
Speaker 1: both ways, right. One of them says I'm so good
28:20
Speaker 1: that they won't be able to ignore me. I'm just
28:22
Speaker 1: going to keep plowing ahead, and the other one says,
28:25
Speaker 1: don't pay attention to me. I'm not worth paying attention to.
28:28
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to come here and punch the clock
28:30
Speaker 1: and leave at five o'clock and keep my job. They're
28:35
Speaker 1: the same behaviors, but we're going about them for different reasons.
28:39
Speaker 1: So let's evaluate those and let's get the information we
28:44
Speaker 1: need to decide what's next? And then Sandra, that's where
28:47
Speaker 1: we start questioning, Okay, what do I want to do next?
28:51
Speaker 1: What are my values? Where can I find work that
28:53
Speaker 1: aligns with them? What kind of organizations do I really
28:56
Speaker 1: think are amazing and awesome? I had a client couple
29:00
Speaker 1: months ago in the artificial intelligence space, and this person
29:06
Speaker 1: was so intelligent, so deep into this space, one of
29:11
Speaker 1: the originators, really and they got a meeting and they
29:18
Speaker 1: were so excited about this meeting, and then they started
29:20
Speaker 1: really researching about the firm, and this person said, I
29:24
Speaker 1: can't do that. That doesn't align with my values, and
29:28
Speaker 1: they canceled the meeting. So I think you have to
29:32
Speaker 1: be well versed in who you are and what you
29:37
Speaker 1: want before you decide does that person's other actions align
29:42
Speaker 1: with that?
29:43
Speaker 2: And I think that's such an incredibly important point that
29:46
Speaker 2: you're raising, because often when we get our feedback, when
29:51
Speaker 2: we get a perspective on how other people are viewing us,
29:55
Speaker 2: our instinctual response is not oh am I in the
29:59
Speaker 2: right place? It's how do I change? What do I
30:02
Speaker 2: need to do differently? And then we go about twisting
30:06
Speaker 2: ourselves up into knots to try to fit in, to
30:10
Speaker 2: try to do the right thing to try to work
30:11
Speaker 2: our way up the corporate ladder, and we never stop
30:14
Speaker 2: to ask is my ladder even on against the right wall?
30:18
Speaker 1: Like?
30:18
Speaker 2: Do I even want to climb this ladder? And oftentimes
30:23
Speaker 2: the answer to those questions might be terrifying in and
30:26
Speaker 2: of itself. What happens when I have spent thirty years
30:29
Speaker 2: at a company or twenty years at a company and realize, Oh,
30:35
Speaker 2: I don't even want to be here anymore? What do
30:37
Speaker 2: we do with that?
30:39
Speaker 1: Oh, Sandra, We're back to your question, which is, what
30:42
Speaker 1: are you making this story mean? What are you making
30:45
Speaker 1: that story mean that you've been there twenty thirty years?
30:48
Speaker 1: Are you saying I've been here for twenty or thirty
30:51
Speaker 1: years and I've wasted that time? Is that what you're
30:53
Speaker 1: making it mean? Or is it just an acknowledgment that
30:56
Speaker 1: I've been here for twenty or thirty years and now
30:59
Speaker 1: I get to do something else, and now I get
31:02
Speaker 1: to find something that's more interesting, and I did a
31:05
Speaker 1: great job in this role over twenty or thirty years,
31:08
Speaker 1: and there's something next for me. I would like to
31:11
Speaker 1: think that that's a great story that we can weave
31:15
Speaker 1: about it.
31:16
Speaker 2: So, of course the other thing that this brings up
31:18
Speaker 2: is did you do yourself a disservice by just doing
31:21
Speaker 2: what your company asked you to do and not looking
31:25
Speaker 2: at how are my skills transferable outside of this organization?
31:30
Speaker 1: Yeah?
31:31
Speaker 2: Which is also all about controlling your visibility, right, because
31:35
Speaker 2: a company may not see you, may not see the
31:38
Speaker 2: value that you know that you can have, and so
31:41
Speaker 2: they may not give you the opportunity. But if you
31:46
Speaker 2: take control of your visibility and be willing to engage
31:50
Speaker 2: with others to talk about the work that you bring
31:53
Speaker 2: and the value that you bring and knowing your own
31:56
Speaker 2: worth speak to those things, not only can you get
32:00
Speaker 2: more visibility, not only can you get exposure to projects
32:05
Speaker 2: that maybe no one considered you for, but you're really
32:09
Speaker 2: taking control of your own career in the organization or
32:13
Speaker 2: outside of the organization. Because honestly, if the company folds, yeah,
32:19
Speaker 2: if they let you, yeah, if they let you go,
32:22
Speaker 2: if the industry changes, like the industries are changing right now, yes,
32:27
Speaker 2: and you need to go and take your skills and
32:30
Speaker 2: your talents to other organizations.
32:33
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, Lebron.
32:37
Speaker 2: Can we tag him now that we've mentioned him?
32:39
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know, I don't think so. But
32:42
Speaker 1: you know whatever, Sandra, It'll be fine.
32:44
Speaker 2: But I think it's an important consideration, right. I think
32:47
Speaker 2: in all of this discussion, we keep netting back to
32:52
Speaker 2: where we ended in episode forty eight. Are you choosing
32:55
Speaker 2: yourself first? Or are you choosing everybody else first?
32:59
Speaker 1: I think that's a great guiding question to ask yourself.
33:04
Speaker 1: And then the other piece that I just want to
33:06
Speaker 1: touch on briefly is if you've woken up one day
33:10
Speaker 1: with the realization that you're in the wrong place or
33:13
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I've wasted these past twenty years, I
33:17
Speaker 1: would encourage you, I would invite you to stop there
33:21
Speaker 1: and ask yourself, how can you honor what you've already done,
33:24
Speaker 1: because honestly, you cannot change those actions, they're already completed.
33:28
Speaker 1: How can you honor it? How can you learn from it?
33:31
Speaker 1: And then how can you make a new choice, a
33:33
Speaker 1: new selection, ask a different question. Let's not go back
33:37
Speaker 1: and beat ourselves up or tell ourselves a million stories
33:41
Speaker 1: about that time we've already had. Let's frame it, Let's
33:45
Speaker 1: move forward.
33:46
Speaker 2: And what I happen to know an excellent career coach
33:50
Speaker 2: that can help you answer those questions.
33:52
Speaker 1: That's question and if.
33:53
Speaker 2: You have been listening to our stories here, her name
33:58
Speaker 2: would be a Nick Garstek, a career consulting. Definitely can
34:04
Speaker 2: kind of call because she's amazing at helping you sort
34:08
Speaker 2: out the answer to that question and it's so important.
34:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Sandra, I appreciate that you see that in me.
34:18
Speaker 1: And I think you have this wonderful ability to help
34:22
Speaker 1: women just stop and say, Okay, where are you now?
34:27
Speaker 1: What do you want for yourself next? And you are
34:30
Speaker 1: great at helping them detangle these stories that we that
34:34
Speaker 1: we've built to survive, but now that are no longer
34:37
Speaker 1: supporting us. So yes, I'm higher both of us. Yeah,
34:42
Speaker 1: maybe we can give them a two for one special,
34:46
Speaker 1: you know, where they get the benefit of our game.
34:48
Speaker 1: With both of us, we are a great team. I
34:53
Speaker 1: do agree with that. And and careers are complicated and
34:58
Speaker 1: sometimes we fall into things not knowing. I can't tell
35:02
Speaker 1: you that my career was so purposeful, so intentional. No,
35:06
Speaker 1: it was a bunch of random acts of career of violence.
35:10
Speaker 1: At this point, I don't know what it was, but
35:14
Speaker 1: how I got to where I was going, even though
35:17
Speaker 1: I didn't at the time know where that was was.
35:20
Speaker 1: I continued to be visible, and I continued to ask
35:24
Speaker 1: for more, and I continued to work up and eventually
35:28
Speaker 1: outside of my original organization because I saw that that
35:33
Speaker 1: was the path forward, even though I didn't have a
35:35
Speaker 1: complete roadmap. I was like turning around every corner and
35:38
Speaker 1: making a choice. And I think that's okay for other
35:42
Speaker 1: people to do that as well. Once you know that
35:44
Speaker 1: you don't want to do that anymore and you want
35:45
Speaker 1: to do something more intentional, that is a great time
35:48
Speaker 1: to say I'm so grateful for what I've had so far,
35:51
Speaker 1: and now I'm ready for more. I'm ready to do
35:54
Speaker 1: something different.
35:55
Speaker 2: I think what you just displayed there was a beautiful
36:00
Speaker 2: way of showing I choose me, yes. And when I
36:06
Speaker 2: say I choose me, often it could be misconstrued as
36:14
Speaker 2: I know what I want, I know myself perfectly and
36:17
Speaker 2: I can make that choice. And the reality is, no,
36:20
Speaker 2: we try this, we try that, we try this other thing,
36:23
Speaker 2: and at some point we figure out, oh wait a minute,
36:25
Speaker 2: I'm like not where I need to be, and I'm
36:29
Speaker 2: choosing me again. But in every one of those instances,
36:33
Speaker 2: there was a choice.
36:34
Speaker 1: I know, you can choose to stay with your organization
36:37
Speaker 1: that you've been at for twenty years and not give
36:40
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty per self percent of yourself, but
36:43
Speaker 1: just give what you need to give to work in
36:46
Speaker 1: that role. Those choices are okay, and sometimes that's what
36:52
Speaker 1: women are given, like this, this ultimatum choice, right, you
36:57
Speaker 1: choose your family, or you choose your work. You choose
36:59
Speaker 1: your or you choose to not I don't know. You
37:03
Speaker 1: choose your education, or you don't write. There's these these
37:07
Speaker 1: false choices or false selections. I don't know, I don't
37:12
Speaker 1: know the right word. But they're not the only choices. Yes,
37:18
Speaker 1: and you can choose one of those big, huge things
37:22
Speaker 1: that people say you shouldn't choose because it works for
37:25
Speaker 1: you or it's what you need in the moment. And
37:27
Speaker 1: so choosing you also means knowing what you need so
37:30
Speaker 1: that you can choose what's right for you even though
37:32
Speaker 1: you're getting all these external pressures to choose something else,
37:34
Speaker 1: or choose what Sandra chose, or choose what to Net chose,
37:37
Speaker 1: or choose what your sister chose.
37:39
Speaker 2: Or choose what your boss wants you to do because
37:41
Speaker 2: it will.
37:43
Speaker 1: Yes, right, and you don't mean to come in at
37:46
Speaker 1: five o'clock in the morning every day. Yes, And sometimes
37:49
Speaker 1: choosing you just means standing up for whatever you need,
37:53
Speaker 1: whatever that may be. Yeah, and I don't know that
37:55
Speaker 1: that's even visibility. Did we even finish talking about visibility?
37:59
Speaker 1: See it?
38:01
Speaker 2: I think the where we've netted out with visibility is
38:05
Speaker 2: people having to carry stories about you, regardless.
38:09
Speaker 1: You got it.
38:10
Speaker 2: Did you intentionally create that story? And if you didn't
38:15
Speaker 2: intentionally create that story or write it, what can you
38:20
Speaker 2: do about it? And you gave us some excellent ideas
38:25
Speaker 2: on what you can do about it?
38:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you haven't already participated in writing that story,
38:32
Speaker 1: or you think you're going to start right now making
38:35
Speaker 1: that change and doing that for you and your career,
38:38
Speaker 1: then what's one conversation that you could have this week
38:42
Speaker 1: that helps someone understand you a little bit better? And
38:45
Speaker 1: if you want to participate a little bit deeper in
38:48
Speaker 1: this conversation with Sandra and I, then we both invite
38:52
Speaker 1: you to join our email community at exposingthehidreality dot com.
38:58
Speaker 2: Maybe we can, you know, invite Lebron.
39:02
Speaker 1: I mean maybe we can. But what if he says no?
39:06
Speaker 2: Would he really say no to us?
39:08
Speaker 1: I don't know if we've given him enough reasons to
39:10
Speaker 1: say yes. But we can work on this, we can.
39:12
Speaker 2: Okay this, Lebron, We're coming for you.
39:18
Speaker 1: Bye bye,