Latest / Harder Than Life / You Don’t Have to Hit Rock Bottom w/ Amber Hollingsworth

Transcript

You Don’t Have to Hit Rock Bottom w/ Amber Hollingsworth · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  Why do people sabotage their recovery? Because they convince themselves some form of this time will be different. It's like trying to friend zone your addiction. You know it's not good for you and you say let's just be friends and you try to like talk to them once a day. It's not going to end well, right? It's like you can't friend zone your addiction.
• 0:17
  A lot of times people don't identify themselves as an alcoholic until they physically cannot stop. So before it kills you, it's going to take everything you care about from you. It's going to take your loved ones, your money, your friends, your career, your talents, your dignity.
• 0:35
  It's going to leave you broken. I don't really view addiction as a disease. It's just a superpower used in the wrong way. So when I work with people, I just focus on redirecting the superpower. What is it you're meant to be doing? If you're still alive, you're still in the game. So there is no, it's too late. But the sooner you address it, the better. Amber Hollingsworth is a nationally recognized addiction counselor who's coached thousands of families back from the edge, and she's not afraid to tell you the truth.
• 1:01
  even if it hurts. You're going to love Amber's calm compassion and love for this. Let's get after it.
• 1:12
  Welcome, Amber. You've sat with thousands of families in crisis. This really hits home for me. I walked in on my father, very young, shooting up. This was 30, 40 years ago. We didn't know anything about interventions or anything. So this is going to hit home. And how did this become your mission, first and foremost?
• 1:33
  It's interesting because I get that question all the time. And I don't have as exciting of a story as most people have who are in my field. I kind of landed here by accident. I'm not recovering myself. I do come from a very addicted family, like grandparents, siblings, like parents. It was everywhere. As in, like, my mom was doing meth with my sister hardcore. Yeah.
• 1:56
  Wow. Yeah. And you would think, you know, it'd be a great story if I could say, and then I was passionate about it. I got in the field. I wish I could say that, but the truth of it is, is I really didn't realize how dysfunctional of a family I came from until I was in the field. And because when you grow up in it,
• 2:13
  You don't know any different. You know, that's just normal. It wasn't like I didn't know people were using substances. I just wouldn't have put that label on it as addiction. You know, you just don't think anything about it. I know it's crazy, but it is what it is. It's not, Amber. So you actually ended up in the field
• 2:32
  despite it. So that's wild story is recovery. Does that include alcohol or is it just a substance? How does that work? Like a lot of people come up to me about alcohol. They're like, well, I don't have a problem. It's like the moment you say to me, you probably don't have a problem. I question what's going on. So for all intents and purposes, do you deal with alcohol or mostly substances? Yeah.
• 2:57
  I deal with any of the chemical dependencies, alcohol included. I probably see more alcoholism than anything else just because it's just sort of a little mini specialty of mine. I see businessmen who drink too much. A lot of really successful people who drink too much, doctors, lawyers, business guys. Let's start right there because a lot of my listeners maybe indulge, quote unquote, a little too much. What is this a warning sign that it's a little too much?
• 3:25
  The first warning sign is a little too much is when your spouse starts complaining to you about it and starts questioning about it. And that usually comes before a lot of other ones, like long before you're going to see it in work stuff, long before your friends are going to say anything to you. And it's funny because when that happens, you're going to think, oh, that's just her. That's just him. And you're going to want to kind of minimize it because you're not getting that feedback from anywhere else.
• 3:54
  Amber, if it was like me, because before I had a spouse or girlfriend or seriously, I would always like attracts like. So I would meet people that were in the party lifestyle. And if they weren't, I would be like, oh, they're too boring for me. So what happens if you don't have a spouse and we're in the early stage of this? Is there is there some signs? Is it is it literally when you start going up to people and saying, I don't have a problem? Yeah.
• 4:23
  Oh, it's way before that. That's when you're being outwardly defensive about it. That's way down the road. When you find yourself in that cycle of regrets and promises and then regrets and promises, you know, it's like something bad happens and you're like, never again. You make all these promises to yourself. Maybe you need to go for a week or two and it happens again. And then you're on good behavior and then it happens again. When you're in that cycle, we're in the red zone. Yeah.
• 4:50
  What would be some non-obvious mistakes or I'm not doing that again, like regrets, like non-obvious, like obviously you crash your car, you get a DUI, EOD. Those are obvious. What are some non-obvious signs of some regrets that the listeners could identify with so they can look at maybe in their families and friends and help them out?
• 5:16
  You know, there's those huge ones, like you said, but there are smaller ones like doing something really embarrassing. Or, you know, when you're waking up in the morning and you're scrolling back through your social media and your texts and you're like, what did I say or do last night? And are you're like temperature checking the people around you to kind of feel, figure out like, was I right? You know, it, those are smaller ones. Bet they're about that girl. But consistent ones. Yeah. You know, you're in the wrong company.
• 5:46
  when they're laughing about it and saying, that was awesome. Yeah, they're egging it on, yeah. What do they say? You are the company you keep. If you hit Ford Party Animals, you're gonna be the fifth. Guys, take it from me, I've been in that lifestyle. I didn't hit rock bottom, which we're gonna get into.
• 6:04
  And if I wanted to go back to that life because it was so good, I would. It's not. This life of feeling my feelings. It turns out mine was very simple. And Amber, help me walk through the evolution of the heart of the life evolution. How I ended up, first of all, like you ended up in this business. I ended up, I wouldn't even call, I don't believe I'm in recovery. I don't go to, I don't do anything. I just do.
• 6:29
  got sick and tired of waking up and looking at my social media, looking at my bank account, trying to find my cars. And I was one of those functioning drinkers that there was never any problem. I grew up in a family where this was normal. And I continued on, even though years later my dad died from it, I didn't think there was a problem. Oh, as long as I'm not doing hard drugs, I'm okay.
• 6:53
  I want people to understand that this affects a lot of people. And if it were so cool, I would have stayed with it. And for me, it wasn't never about the alcohol. Do you see that as prevalent everywhere, whether it be drugs or alcohol? Is it some underlying, I always call it the alcohol is the symptom. The disease is what you're trying to mask, the feeling that you're running from.
• 7:20
  Yeah. Sometimes I've heard people say it too, like alcohol is the solution. Right. And I love that terminology. It's just I'm like, it is just a bad solution. It bites you in the butt eventually. Right. It's just you need a better solution to whatever it is. And it's strange because it starts for one reason, but it continues going for other reasons. So I feel like that reason and that underlying thing evolves as time goes on for a lot of people.
• 7:47
  How do you help them? So talk to the evolution of put the shovel down and what that all means. People say it's a funny channel name, but it's an old recovery saying that one of my first jobs in the field, I did it with teenagers. And one of the teenagers used to say it all the time. He'd say, you hit your bottom when you put your shovel down. And that really stuck with me because a big part of my mission is trying to get people to U-turn out of there before they lose everything. You know, before they go to jail, before their spouse leaves, before they lose their job.
• 8:17
  Because a lot of people are like, well, they just have to hit bottom. And I'm like, well, that's ridiculous. Right. Yeah. So I mistook that too, Amber, to be completely blunt. I figured it was like digging a grave. But now what I see is you're digging a hole for yourself. That's what the intent is. Yeah. And to stop. Stop digging your grave. Stop digging your hole. Right. You don't have to keep going. You decide when you're done.
• 8:40
  I call it life's hamster wheel or the merry-go-round. You just go around, around, around, around. And what do you do? You puke. So it's literally, I love it. Put the shovel down. Guys, if you're not following it. And by the way, I'm going to do a quick and easy plug on this. Amber has a flagship course, the Invisible Intervention. We're going to get into interventions, what it means, how to do it. I was just this week.
• 9:04
  asked to be a part of an intervention. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. And they used a different term instead of put the shovel down. It was, would you be okay if so-and-so was in a pine box? So it was the pine box analogy. And I'm sure you've heard that. And I said, I don't see the problem. And it was so...
• 9:25
  uncomfortable that that tested my will. Did you end up doing it, Kelly? Did you do the intervention or no? We did not. The person, you know, it just isn't the right time. They weren't.
• 9:42
  It's not bad yet, but it's perfect. That's what that's my arena right there. Yeah. What it is, Amber, is the person and I don't want a person's in recovery and it seems like they're slipping. And a lot of us are looking and going, something's off, but nobody has any proof. And the person that leads the intervention for that, we were going to do said you need 100 percent proof. Is there any truth to that?
• 10:06
  I don't think you as the family need 100% proof, but I think the person themselves has to know. Like, if what you're saying is this person...
• 10:15
  had a problem and then maybe got sober and now something's going on again and people are suspect. First of all, the people are probably right. You know, you, you know, the people that you know really well. And when they're different, they're different. But if that, that person could have backslid and I don't even know what they do, but whatever it is, but if it's only happening a little bit in their mind, they're managing it. Yep.
• 10:37
  And their minds like I finally figured this out. I finally got the rhythm of this and y'all are overreacting and I'm not doing nothing like what I was doing before. Because if it was like what it was before, it'd be obvious. So when y'all say we're not, we know it, but we don't have proof, it makes me think that the person is somewhere in the gray area right now. And if they don't know that it's going to end badly, then we're not ready yet. Even if you didn't have proof, if they knew and you knew they knew, it could still work.
• 11:04
  Their rationale, this intervention specialist rationale was they'll weasel the way out of it. And unless we have a picture of them doing the drug or, and I agree because I sat with him and he just denied deflected and I just said, okay, it was the weirdest thing, but I just, I love them and you love them so much. And it reminded me of when we were going through with my dad. And so I want to dig on that a little deeper about
• 11:33
  People not knowing if they have a problem. So you're going to laugh. I'm going to tell you a funny story. Even Steven knows about this. Is what I had to do, I went to jail for selling drugs in college. Okay. And it was a supply and demand. I wasn't doing them, but I grew up in the ghetto and I had access to them with all my friends. And I grew up in a rough neighborhood, so I had access to it. And we were selling drugs. I got arrested and I had to go to jail. When I went to jail, part of being in jail is they made you go to mandatory meetings.
• 12:03
  Because somehow, this is, you know, this is,
• 12:06
  30 years. Because it was drug-related. They assume you're a problem. Oh, well, if you're doing drugs, or if you're selling drugs, you, of course, have an addiction problem, which I did. Which is probably true, like 99% of the time. I didn't like it. So they're definitely, I say all that to say this. When I was in the meetings, I said, I don't have a drinking problem. I don't have a problem. I'm here because they made me come, and it gets me out of my jail cell for a little while, so I was here. And the definition...
• 12:36
  of an alcoholic or an addict or an addict to this particular person running this meeting 30 years ago was if you do something regularly. So if every Friday and Saturday you're drinking,
• 12:50
  and you look forward to it, that is a definition of having a problem. Could you give us a better definition, your clinical, your expertise of what, if it's, I think everything in moderation, including moderation is good, but what gets it constituted being out of moderation?
• 13:10
  I think out of moderation is when the cons are outweighing the pros and you keep doing it anyway. It's causing you all these problems. You're losing girlfriends, whatever. And it's clearly not worth the price you're paying, but you just keep doing it. And you're in that promise cycle. I'm not going to do that again. I'm going to cut it back. All the things. Yeah.
• 13:31
  Sorry, you answered that the same way the first. I just keep wanting to beat a dead horse because I literally was at a party last week and someone called to me and they're like, oh, I don't have a problem because I quit for six months. Okay. Why are you talking to me about this? I just, I want, I really want to beat a dead horse because it's not going to be hitting rock bottom and it's not going to be, you have all of these problems.
• 13:53
  prevalent problem for me it was not i didn't know they were an issue until i decided to quit and the only reason i decided to quit because i just wanted to try it i literally just said i'm going and we're funny thing is amber we're coming up on seven years wow i only know because i quit it was a new year's resolution that i was just i'm going to take 90 days off i didn't mean to do it i didn't mean to quit forever i just sound like you might go on a diet or something at new year's pretty much i'm kind of thinking okay
• 14:20
  Yeah, I just I'm going to try life without it. I went 90 days and I'm like, whoa. And all of a sudden, everything got better. I want another 90 days. It's got even better. And at no time that what I think that it was a problem, but I went, I feel so good. I think I'm just going to quit.
• 14:40
  Yeah, I love that. When I made that decision, the universe tested me and said, okay, now he means business. Let's throw some things at him. And they said, those feelings and emotions and all the things that subconsciously I was masking. Right. Amber, yeah.
• 15:01
  I curled up in a ball and cried. You can't see me. I have 220 pounds of solid muscle. And I was crying like a baby, feeling feelings that I had masked for 20 plus years. I didn't know. And then all of a sudden, I realized, whoa, this was a bigger problem than I thought it was.
• 15:21
  And now, seven years later, I'm like, yeah, it was, if you're reaching for something every time, consciously or unconsciously, I would come home and I would be cooking dinner and I would just pour scotch. Just automatically retain habit. Made a lot of money, was present for my family, my daughter. I ran a company.
• 15:46
  never drank and drove. But yet once I quit, it was like, whoa, holy cow. I got all this time and energy and money and I'm not attracting chaos. So guys, be on the lookout for that stuff. Again, I cut myself off. The Invisible Intervention is Amber's flagship course. It teaches families how to influence their loved ones.
• 16:05
  recovery without confrontation or control. So visit hope for families, recovery center.com to access the course. There's coaching calls. There's dozens of free tools on boundaries, which we're going to get into next codependency and relapse prevention. Amber boundaries are a big, one of those hot topics right now about you'll see people boundary up and catch flights, not feelings, um,
• 16:31
  What is the biggest miss? Flight's not feelings. I haven't heard that one. I haven't heard that one. Oh, it's a new one for me. All right. All right. It's, it's, it's again feel. I say feeling is healing. Yeah. But when you're feeling uncomfortable, good. It's like doing a workout and you're tearing your muscles and your muscles are sore when you're really feeling and you're really in the trenches. That means you're in the mud and you're in the arena. Congratulations. Yeah. Yeah.
• 16:57
  Look at you get all excited. So talk about boundaries and why are they so hard to enforce and keep and have? And everybody thinks they have them, but what's a sign that you really do have boundaries that are healthy? Well, I think that the first issue, Kelly, is that people...
• 17:20
  Don't define it correctly. Like they have the wrong idea. What most people, when they say I'm setting a boundary or I've got boundaries, what they're really doing is setting rules for people around them.
• 17:30
  And so the way I explain it is a boundary is a fence you put around yourself. It's like you can put a fence in your own backyard and that's cool. But if you try to put a fence in your neighbor's backyard, they're not going to like it. And that's what when most people are setting boundaries, especially when you're talking about setting boundaries with some of the addiction issue. A lot of times it's a bunch of rules and that doesn't doesn't work very well.
• 17:54
  Don't keep going into that. That's you keep going. That's really good because a lot of people do set it, say I'm setting a boundary. You can't speak to me that way. And that's, that's what you're saying is a set of rules on you. I heard Brene Brown say a boundary is a place where I can love you and me simultaneously. I like that. Yeah. That's, that's beautiful. For me, it's about, um,
• 18:22
  A lot of times people set boundaries because they think, I'm going to set these boundaries, and that's going to force this other person to get better. But boundaries don't make an addict or an alcoholic better. Literally, boundaries are only for yourself. Like, I'm not going to live with someone who curses at me every day. Or, you know, you just decide what you're going to do or not going to do. I'm not going to cover their shift when they're sick every time for the 100th time. You know, those are boundaries. They're rules for yourself.
• 18:50
  And so when you're saying someone else is breaking my boundaries, that's not the way it works. Only you can break your boundaries, right? It means you're not going by your own rules you set for yourself. The difference is instead of saying, don't call me after 5 o'clock because I know you're going to be drunk, you just have a conversation with yourself. You don't have to announce it to anyone and you just say, I'm not answering their calls after 5 o'clock because I'm probably going to be drunk and we're going to end up fighting and it's not going to be good. And then they won't even remember it and then I'll be mad about that the next day.
• 19:16
  You don't need to even say it to anyone else because it's a conversation and an agreement with yourself.
• 19:23
  I think of it as enforcement of your rules. It's the enforcement of your rules to yourself. And frankly, once you keep boundaries, it's like keeping the word to yourself. And it builds confidence in yourself. And you realize, whoa, I can do this and be okay. A lot of times it's being okay, disappointing somebody with your boundaries. That is the, will you go into that?
• 19:51
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• 20:20
  It is because we feel like when we're not keeping boundaries that we're being nice.
• 20:26
  But actually it ends up ruining our relationships, especially if we do it a lot because we end up with resentment. And then that resentment comes out in really toxic ways that end up messing the relationship up anyway. We either eventually get mad and boil over and say a bunch of hateful things or we're just really passive aggressive or we just completely start avoiding that person and lying just to kind of get out of situations. So it's like what you think you're doing,
• 20:53
  to be nice to the person or to help the relationship ends up blowing the whole situation to pieces. That is very true. When you say lying, when you say somebody in the attic or alcoholic asks you to do something, oh, I'm busy. No, of proper boundaries. No, I don't want to hang out with you when you're like that. Right. Forces. That's not mean.
• 21:14
  First of all, I would tell you that's massive growth on your part because you can say it with compassion and kindness and not be mean. They can say it's mean all they want. It's only mean because you're holding up a mirror. So that leads into a great question. What's the biggest mistake families make when trying to help someone in crisis?
• 21:34
  The biggest mistake that they make is they get themselves into what I call the bad guy or the villain role. And this is almost always the person that's like closest to the person with the addiction. It's either usually like the parent or the spouse.
• 21:51
  or the roommate or the best friend. It's whoever's the closest person that knows them the best. It's because they're seeing a lot of the behind the scenes. They're seeing more of what's happening than other people. So naturally, if someone you care about, your alarms are going off. And you're trying to get this person's attention before they, like, destroy their life and possibly yours too. So you're trying to, like, get them to wake up and see the issue.
• 22:16
  And when you get yourself in that role where you're constantly trying to tell somebody something negative about themselves and something somebody doesn't want to hear and something somebody doesn't even believe about themselves, they start to see you as the problem.
• 22:30
  And then we get into this power struggle where you're trying to make them admit they have a problem. They're not admitting it. They're either just flat out lying to you or they're just flat out lying to themselves and they're not admitting it. So then the other person gets in this role. I call it like that. Get your FBI badge out or whatever. You start trying to find all this evidence. Like you get your PowerPoint out. You get your black light out. You're finding evidence. You're presenting it to them thinking, well, I.
• 22:56
  Kind of like that interventionist. If I get this hardcore evidence, they're going to admit it. Well, first of all, no, it's it's just going to put you more in the villain role. And this power struggle can ensue for years. They don't mean to, but the family member inadvertently keeps this whole cycle going years longer than it has to.
• 23:14
  Because they're playing that villain. And as long as you're playing the villain, the person fixates on you as the problem. And the reason I know this is because I've been talking to addicts and alcoholics for 20 years. And it's all they can talk to me about. As long as their family member is doing that, I'm not going to get them to talk to me about anything else. It's like, oh, you're not going to believe what she did. And they tell you all this thing. Because the family member...
• 23:39
  You know, they're telling you the family members acting crazy. And it's probably true. They probably are acting crazy. But they're acting crazy in response to what's happening over here. They're just not handling it very well. And it just keeps this whole power struggle going. And it creates this distraction for the person so that they don't have to see what's going on because they just focus on what you're doing. I'm going back to my teenage years. And I remember my father. He was a heroin addict. And I remember...
• 24:08
  my grandparents trying everything all the way through to just cutting them off, him off. And you know, all they were trying to avoid was him not dying, which he eventually did. What should we have done? And what does the, what should the normal family do that is in this on that merry-go-round that addict addiction, merry-go-round and they're denying it and they're acting crazy. What, what should actually happen?
• 24:38
  I think the first thing you do is you try to the best of your ability to assess where the person is at in their addiction and where they're at in their what I call stages of change.
• 24:48
  If a person is full-blown addicted, maybe they're denying it to you, but you know that they know. Like, it's obvious. Like, they're not in denial. They're just not stopping. Then an old-school intervention like what you were talking about, that might be the best thing to do. Even if somebody, or even like a legal intervention or something where somebody's forced into treatment. Because...
• 25:12
  When someone's that bad, they have to get their brain cleared up enough to see it and to be able to make the decision to stop. Like, because they're just that far in it. So if they're really far gone, I don't care how you get them sober, just get them sober. Because even like what, it fits perfectly with your story, Kelly, because you're like, I got sober just sort of on accident. And then I realized, gosh, it's way better over here. That's what happens for them, too.
• 25:37
  If you're dealing with somebody that's not that far gone, that really is in denial, then you have to back up and you have to... The things that we teach is we teach you how to interact with that person in a way that's going to help them come to the conclusion that they want to change on their own so that we can intervene before we get to weigh those late stages. That's good advice. I'm on the board of a...
• 26:03
  charity called face addiction now and i just learned recently while i'm on the board of all the new medicines that are available for all this so if you're drinking and you can't stop you can take a medication same thing with with uh other drugs it's wild what's out there what do you what are you seeing out there that's working and is that an effective treatment or and or um
• 26:28
  Are you seeing, sending or seeing people go to these ketamine treatments? So talk about the new advanced things that maybe my audience hasn't heard about. I haven't personally seen anybody go to ketamine treatments for addiction. I've seen people use ketamine treatments like the micro dosing and stuff for depression. And so in some ways, like let's say you're getting sober, but you're depressed and you're doing ketamine. I could kind of see it that way. I haven't seen anybody directly use that for addiction.
• 26:55
  What you see a lot of now is people using like naltrexone to help them stop drinking. They call it, there's a method called the Sinclair method. It's the same medicine. It's the same drug that's in a lot of the opioid replacement medicines like buprenorphine. And so it's interesting how it does two different things. One thing for alcohol and one thing for that. But it's interesting how that's helpful. And then...
• 27:22
  You know, you don't really see this a lot here, but people go out of the country and they have these, you know, what is it, Abigain and some of these other like, I don't know a whole lot about it, but basically you have like a trip and you have like a spiritual experience. And I've seen and heard of that working for people, so I'm not against it. I just don't know enough about it because we don't do that here.
• 27:42
  Yeah, we had a couple of people on and we've interviewed. And I would tell you, I did it without doing those where I just went deep into, like I'm working right now with a brain spotting specialist. And I've done hypnotherapy and EMDR therapy. I can only speak for myself and all the people that I've coached.
• 28:01
  through alcohol is there is something deep down in your psyche. We got to find out what it is. And the first thing I ask people is, do you know why you drink alcohol?
• 28:14
  And then they say it, and it's usually something three layers below that. Right. And for me, literally, I thought it was one thing, and I'm working with this brain spotting specialist, and I literally just was trying to belong. I was trying to find a tribe. And I realized I'm a tribe of one. I'm weird, and I love my life, and I love myself. And the more, I tell you, the best thing,
• 28:41
  The best tool for all treatment of everything is a mirror.
• 28:46
  And I know that's harsh, but go look in the mirror, love that person in the mirror, do everything you can to put that person first. And I'm going to tell you, everybody's listening to me. I'm proud of me for doing this work. And every single day I'm getting lighter and lighter and lighter. I just turned 50 years old, Amber, and I feel like I just literally started living. Yeah.
• 29:12
  So talk about anybody that you've worked with that has a story like that so people can understand how great it is once you actually look at,
• 29:20
  into the abyss and realize it's really not that bad. It creates what I might call like a spiritual shift, a heart shift. And it can happen just like, it's like, maybe you might call it like a light bulb moment, right? Where suddenly for whatever reasons, drug induced therapy, you hit a bottom, whatever, thoughts connect in your brain differently. And you see something from a different angle and it causes a complete heart shift in you. And once that happens, you,
• 29:51
  That changes everything. There's not a lot of going back because once you see a truth, you can't unsee it. You can kind of try to ignore it, but it's right there talking to you.
• 30:00
  Heart shift, Amber. I'm stealing that. I love that. That's exactly. I would say I had a heart shift and a soul shift all at the same time, where it just was like something was like an exorcism. Something just pulled out of me. That's, that's, you just gave me the chills. Oh, how is your family? Can we talk about that? I apologize. I just, how, you said that your own family is.
• 30:27
  indirectly influenced, but you didn't realize it. How are they now? Please tell me it's good. I didn't ask the question because I don't know the backstory. That's okay. My mom died related to her addiction when I was in my 20s. My grandmother died of esophageal cancer, which was directly related to her drinking.
• 30:47
  So a lot of the people in my family have passed on, and most of it related to their addictive issues. My half-sister, which is probably the most influential person,
• 31:03
  That changed the drug issue because I would have labeled her as having a problem. Like I knew that even as a, and I was younger, even as a kid, I knew that there was a problem there. I haven't talked to her in a bunch of years. And so I can't really tell you. I talked to her aunt a couple of times who says sort of like almost all of sister's kids have addictions. And so that changed.
• 31:26
  I'm so sorry. I'm gonna go somewhere with this because I'm gonna add in mine. So my father died when I was 23 years old. It took me years to get over that. I still think about him daily, and it's 26, 27 years later. My stepfather is dying in hospice alone because he doesn't have any friends because he was an alcoholic. My mother's dying alone.
• 31:55
  You just heard Ambers. Guys, this doesn't end well, people. This doesn't end. I'm not trying to scare you. It's the facts. And on top of it, I read a statistic. What is it? Something like 82% of violent acts, people are drunk or on drugs.
• 32:13
  Right. Yeah, I believe it immediately when you say it. Yeah. But what you said is so important, the part about you didn't just say they're dying, but alone. And that's the thing is I tell people this is a terminal issue. But the fact that it kills you is not the bad part. Because at some point you wish you'd die anyway. That's part of late-stage addiction is you just wish you wouldn't wake up in the morning. Like you may not be passively, you know, having a plan. I mean, you may not be actively having a plan, but you...
• 32:42
  You get to the point where you really don't care if you don't wake up. And so you live more recklessly. They're not living, Amber. They're not living anything. They're miserable. They're miserable. So it's not the dying part that's bad. It's everything that happens to you first. So before it kills you.
• 32:58
  It's going to take everything you care about from you. It's going to take your loved ones, your money, your friends, your career, your talents, your dignity. And it's going to leave you broken. That's the bad part. It's not the dying. It's the lead up. It's just bad.
• 33:16
  You see me touching my heart. I'm feeling this because I'm just getting more and more proud of all the work that I've done. And I'm not trying to be arrogant. I just I want I try to model and inspire everybody to live life and just and just heal because it's it's harder than life, but it'll lead you to be happier than life. What's the difference between addiction and mental illness?
• 33:39
  I don't really know that there is much of a difference. I think addiction is just a form. It's just one of the mental illness issues that you could be struggling from. It's all in there wrapped up. And when you have an addiction, most people who have an addiction have a mental health condition that was already there. I'm trying to think of the word pre-something. Pre-existing. I couldn't think. I was like...
• 34:01
  But even if you didn't have a preexisting mental health condition, you will by the time you get any distance into addiction because it causes all of the mental health. You're going to have depression. You're going to have anxiety. You're going to have mood swings. You're going to have inability to focus. You're going to have all the things eventually. Man, people are probably listening to this going, oh, you need my couple of glasses of wine that's causing all these problems? Yes.
• 34:26
  Yeah. And more than you think, and it's just like what you said, you don't even realize it till you get away from it. Right. And then you're like, dang, like it is like really different over here. Just like what you described. I'm going to ask you this question, but I'm going to answer it from my end first. What's one belief about addiction you've completely reversed over the years? And for me, and you're the expert, but I just, I just thought of this is that it is an illness.
• 34:56
  I believe it's so much deeper than that. It's almost like a trauma response to me. Well, first of all, what's the one belief about addiction that you've completely reversed and then disprove my ignorant answer, please?
• 35:15
  A couple. One is connected to the one that you named in that I don't really, in my mind, view addiction as a disease. And that gets me in trouble when I say it. And honestly, I feel mixed about it because it's really just semantics. In some ways, it's healthy to say it's a disease because it does reduce stigma. So I'm not really against it. I just think technically, when you look at what's happening, people say it's a disease because of the brain changes. But actually...
• 35:44
  You have to be addicted for a long time before those brain changes happen. You have to be using consistently enough to cause the brain changes. Like you're addicted before you're dependent. And that's what people think of as addiction. They think of dependency like I have to. But I'm like, no, you're addicted years before you got there. Dependency is a late stage symptom. But the addiction is a mental obsession.
• 36:08
  It's how much am I thinking about it? Not how much am I doing it? How much am I thinking about it? How much am I, like, devising my whole life around it? It's a thought process, not a how much or a when or I can't stop. That's one big U-turn. And, I mean, I give all the brain talks, you know. I have done all that stuff and still do that stuff. But I've changed the way I think about that. And my thinking is I don't really know –
• 36:37
  that addiction is even a dysfunction of the brain. I just think it's like people that, you know, it's an obsession, it's a fixation, it's a relentlessness that happens. And I think it's just a superpower used in the wrong way. I don't think our brains are not supposed to do that because from a survival purpose, it's that same part of your brain that makes you successful. It's that same part of your brain that makes you reproduce.
• 37:04
  It's supposed to be there. So I don't even think it's not supposed to be there. I just think we live in a society where there's so much excess of everything.
• 37:13
  that we end up, that part of our brain gets ended up used for the not good. You know, your superpower used for the evil versus for the good. So that's like a duality where the thing that actually holds you back is also what is fueling you. Right, yeah. So talk about the person who's driving in the car right now, and they're like, wait a minute. What do you mean it's a superpower? And how can I use it for good? Yeah, yeah.
• 37:43
  Well, I, you know, I see a lot of really successful people who have addictions. And when you look at them, there are some like common characteristics there. A lot of them are very A-type. They're focused. They're going to get, they're going to win at all costs. They're going to get what they're going to get. And they're not going to give up.
• 38:02
  And I think all of those are great qualities. And sometimes it's interesting what you were saying. I really related to that. Like you were saying, I wanted to fit in. Because a lot of times people that are like that,
• 38:15
  That quality is seen as kind of weird sometimes, like if you're super driven and you have a hard time just relaxing and being social because you want to be working towards something all the time or you're always working on some kind of master plan, people see that as weird. And so you start maybe drinking because you don't even know how to just relax and just be cool and hang out with people.
• 38:38
  And so it's like you feel like something's wrong, but I would advise people like you, I'd say, no, just figure out your operating system and work within your operating system and stop trying to, you know, if you're a PC, stop trying to be a Mac. If you're a Mac, stop trying to be a PC, just work within your operating system. That is tremendous advice. You can see this still coming to my ears right now. We need to teach in high school emotional regulation and that weird regulation.
• 39:07
  doesn't mean what we think it means. My daughter just said this to me yesterday. She doesn't drink. She doesn't do drugs. She's not. She's 16 years old. And thank God I stopped when I did because now all she remembers me of is being who I am now. Mm-hmm.
• 39:25
  But she doesn't have many friends because she doesn't partake in that and every other kid. And she's the quote unquote weird one. And I'm like, wait a minute. You mean you're just not following what everybody else is doing? That's not weird. That's called being a leader. That's called being a lion, not a sheep. Right.
• 39:44
  we should teach in high school that it's okay to blaze your own path and following what everybody that's why they're called one percenters because there's only one percent of the people that are really figured this thing out in the world 99 people doing the same thing and expecting a different result so your superpower i like that amber that's good stuff
• 40:07
  So when I work with people, I just focus on redirecting the superpower. What is it you're meant to be doing? What is your genius? How are you like, how is this addiction interfering with you being your best self that you know deep in your heart you're meant to be? Your gifts that you're given to share with the world. And people can really connect to that because deep down they know they're meant for something more.
• 40:27
  And when you talk to people about that, they're like, I mean, that's just easy to grab a hold of versus trying to tell somebody that they're bad or selfish or any of those things. People don't want to grab a hold of that because they don't see themselves that way.
• 40:43
  I knew that it was holding me back, but it was so, at the time it was the only fun, only way I knew to have fun and to slow my brain down. And now I'm geared with every habit and ritual, and really my whole day is structured to have heaven on earth all day long.
• 41:04
  and be in my feels and be present. That was the biggest thing is I just, I never was present. And yeah, that's super, it was blocking me. And I'm telling you, if you just took, I tell everybody the same thing. Just take 90 days off. And if your life isn't better, I'll give you your money back.
• 41:25
  I mean, I feel like just maybe if you're like your daughter or whoever, if you're a young person and you just make the decision, you're just not going to drink. You will literally be 50 percent ahead of every other young adult, because even I'm not even talking about like quit because you have a problem. I'm talking about you just decide I'm not going down that road because even people that don't have a problem, it's slowing them down.
• 41:46
  It's interfering with them. It's causing them unnecessary drama. It's causing them to spend a lot of their money chasing it, a lot of their time chasing it, a lot of their time getting over, feeling sick, apologizing and trying to fix relationship problems that they're causing. Think of how that's slowing them down. And so if you want to give yourself an advantage, the biggest advantage you can give yourself is just say, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to put that roadblock in my life. If you ever want to laugh, just be sober.
• 42:16
  and then listen to a conversation, listen to a fight, and you're like, oh my goodness, they're not even making any sense. And the fight that usually happens is, it doesn't make any sense. And you're like, this is the kind of conversation that I was in. Yeah, and the big thing about it is, you feel like it makes you smarter. You feel like it makes you more likable. And I'm like,
• 42:42
  you know, you are more creative or whatever. I'm like, I know it feels that way, but most of the time it isn't that way. Would you enlighten the listeners what they can expect when they head over to your Put the Shovel Down YouTube platform? We look at addiction from all the different angles. So if you're a person who's in recovery, if you're a person who thinks,
• 43:02
  Maybe I have a problem and you're trying to figure that out. Or if you have a loved one, because we talk about it from all the different angles and look at it from all the different perspectives. And we really are trying to help people before they lose everything. I mean, in my mind, if you're still alive, you're still in the game. So there is no, it's too late in my mind. But the sooner you address it, the better, because the longer you wait, the harder it is and the more bridges you burn and the more things you can't get back. So the sooner, the better.
• 43:32
  So that's what if you watch, if you guys are listening to us and still listening, that's where I was trying to do it at the very early stages. That's where we kind of talked about. So is there a lot of information in the YouTube channel about that? Like even if it's just I get this a ton.
• 43:46
  All of my friends, this is somebody come up to me, all of my friends and all of my family drink. I don't know what to do. And I say, just don't drink. And then when they go off the deep end, you just leave. It's the best thing in the world. They don't even know you're not there. Right. So I like helping people at that stage because it's much easier. They're already sober curious or anti-curious. I love that, yeah.
• 44:14
  And what do you have in the YouTube channel for people that are in the initial stages that they just they know there's a better way? I think the place where most people start is is the you know, there's some videos that help you figure out. Do I have a problem and not just do I have a problem, but where on the spectrum am I? Right. So you can kind of diagnose yourself to figure out where am I at in this whole continuum? Because it's really not a.
• 44:36
  You're an alcoholic or you're not, or you're a drug addict or you're not. It's a continuum of issue. And so it's not a am I yes or no, it's a where am I at. Because a lot of times people don't identify themselves as an addict or an alcoholic until they're in those late final stages of they physically cannot stop.
• 44:56
  But like I said before, you're an addict and alcoholic long before you get to the dependency where you physically can't stop. And so if you identify that you're on that track, then you can you can actually decide like you did. I don't I don't think this route is right for me. I think I want to do something else. You can still decide and choose to do something. So there's a lot on there about that. And then there's a lot, probably the majority of the content is helping family members to get through that.
• 45:25
  to people in those earlier stages.
• 45:27
  Yeah, I wish that my family would have caught me a little. I would have never listened at the time. Everything happens when it's supposed to, and I wasn't ready till I was ready. I'm working with this brain spotting doctor right now, and it's like, we're uncovering some additional child trauma that I thought I worked on. And she's like, your body just wasn't ready to release it yet. So there is, it sounds like there's a lot of great resources. And number one thing I wanna come highlight again for the listeners is,
• 45:56
  If it's getting in the way of living your best life in any way, shape or form, and if it's making you feel some kind of something like to the person I get all the time that says my whole family drinks and I don't want to, that misalignment creates a divide. So go to Amber's YouTube channel and see what she's got there for you because there's, how are you so knowledgeable? Where are you coming up with all of this? You have a team of people with you?
• 46:25
  I've been doing this work for like 20 years, and I feel like for me, because I'm not in recovery, in the beginning I felt like that was a huge disability. I used to be kind of embarrassed about it, and I would skirt the question because people would automatically sort of judge you and dismiss you if you said you weren't in recovery. But I feel like ultimately that's what's made me good at this because –
• 46:51
  I had to really listen to people and I had to really figure them out. And when you're in recovery, it's really easy to project your own story on the people and not listen to them and not pay attention to what they're trying to tell you. It's easy to be like, oh, I know what you're thinking and what you're doing. I did the same thing. And you don't even like really listen because you think you have all the answers. So for me, what started out as a disability ends up being a superpower. Yeah.
• 47:17
  Similarly to like, or blind, you might hear better. You know, it's like I gained something from it because I was looking at it from different angles. I learned something this week and it's so silent and listen. I'll have the same letters. I didn't know that. That's pretty cool. So you can have that one. I like that. Never, never thought of it.
• 47:43
  All right. We're getting up against it, but I have a rapid fire at the end. But I got a couple more questions that I want to ask. And I'm just going to rapid fire is fun. It's something we're adding to the show that I love. Just quick one word, one sentence answers. But I would say that everything that you're...
• 48:00
  you're saying is so resonating with me because at the end of the day, to this day, if you tell me I'm in recovery or I'm an alcoholic, I'll say I just choose not to drink. I don't have a label. The 12 steps I'm not a big fan of,
• 48:16
  Um, you know, I have a lot of friends that have saved their lives, so I respect it, but it didn't work for me. It just, the fact that saying, admitting that you're powerless over something didn't work for me. So that stigmatism to this day, I just say, I choose not to drink. I'm not an alcoholic. I'm not a recovery. I don't, I just choose to say, I choose to sit in my shit.
• 48:40
  You put your shovel down early, right? Yeah. Put it down. I like it. I don't know if I had a shovel. I think I had a freaking bulldozer. A bulldozer. I was digging holes left and right. You turned your keys in. You turned your keys to your bulldozer over. I love it. Since we're being so honest and vulnerable, what do you believe about recovery that most professionals won't say out loud? I don't believe you're powerless. I don't believe people have to hit bottom. And I don't believe tough love is the best way to get through to people.
• 49:10
  What do you believe? I believe actually empathy makes people figure it out faster. Where were you my whole life? I think it's the southerness of you that...
• 49:21
  makes, you could literally tell me anything negative. And I would be like, thank you, Amber. It's like a compassion exudes through you. And, and I just, I can tell you're really good at what you do and I'm going to send people your way. And I just really grateful that you're here because you're doing great.
• 49:41
  a lot of good work because i i believe that this country this world we all need to become better people so we can communicate better and collaborate better and be and make kindness the new gangster and just treat each other with respect and it starts with treating yourself with respect and making decisions that show that you respect yourself so it sounds like you and i have a lot of similar beliefs
• 50:08
  I think so, yeah. I think we'd get along just fine. Let's talk about why do people sabotage their recovery right when things get better? This is common. Most of the time, people sabotage their recovery because they convince themselves some form of this time will be different. Or I got control of it. Yeah, I'll find the loophole. I'll just...
• 50:31
  drink but not use cocaine because it was the cocaine that got me in trouble, or I'll just drink beer and not liquor, or I'll just drink on special occasions, or I'll just smoke and I won't drink. You know, it's like, it's a, I call it bargaining process where you're trying to find a way to keep it somehow in your life. One thing I call it is like trying to friend zone your addiction. Right.
• 50:50
  It's like you go through this toxic breakup and you know it's not good for you. You know you don't need to be in it, but you don't want to let it go completely. And you say, let's just be friends. And you try to talk to them once a day. It's not going to end well. Right? It's like you can't friend zone your addiction. Yeah. So usually people are trying to do that and it doesn't work.
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• 51:23
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• 51:40
  So I went, well, I'm telling you more things than I've told anybody. I wrote a little bit. But at the very end of my drinking and partying, it's like I had to do cocaine just so I could drink more. And that's when I'm like, this is just, I'm compounding it. I'm exponentially making it worse. And for what? So I can stay up a little later to chase more women. And then I was on this circle because the more cocaine you did, the less you can do with the woman. So it was like, it was all counterproductive. Yeah.
• 52:07
  Exactly. The cons are outweighing the pros. And that mental obsession, that whole like, now I'm bringing in other things to make this work. The whole like having themes and formulas and systems. When you're having schemes and formulas and systems and rules for yourself, we're headed in the wrong direction. I'm going to go on a limb and assume you've never done cocaine. And I'm going to tell you something, everybody.
• 52:34
  It is a cool drug. It makes you feel for the first 30 minutes like you can freaking walk on water. Oh, I have no doubt I would love it. I always said if I was going to be, it would be a stimulant. I'm going to tell you right now, I can create the same euphoric feeling on my own.
• 52:53
  with gratitude and presence. I'm not lying to you. And I will walk anybody through it. And if they tell me they don't feel that way, I'll give them money for that one. I can create- You get those endorphins and that serotonin. And you don't have to feel bad about it the next day. And it's actually still kind of high off of it the next day because you actually feel good about whatever happened. Because, and that's what I would call the magnetism. And it would be, that would be the manifestation. Right.
• 53:22
  You know, people like, oh, I just think about it. No, no, no. And you emanate it out. It comes. And I'm telling you, I always say cocaine tomorrow's energy today. But I can do that now. As you can tell, you're getting me all excited because I just envision a place where we're this, where we're all happy people. I really do. And it starts with that mirror, with us looking at each other. So last question, and then we're going to go to rapid fire. If you had unlimited funding, how would you change the rehab industry?
• 53:51
  If I had unlimited funding, I would train addiction professionals to stop trying to teach people how to get sober and start trying to figure out how to get them to want to be sober. Because people don't need to be told how to get sober. That's pretty simple. It's about helping people stay motivated and want to. That's the trick. It's not about telling them how. People know how. They know in the back of their head how they would do it and how they're going to do it one day. It's about getting them there to want to.
• 54:20
  you make the goal, the carrot of your goals in life greater than the drinking. You nailed it.
• 54:30
  go down a rabbit hole and think about that a little bit more. Because when I work with people, and I do, I get a lot of people that come to me and said, I just need help. And I'm here. All I do is sit and listen and tell them that they matter. And I try to say what life could look like without it. Because that's all I show people. I just landed in Fort Lauderdale. I'm here for the rest of the year. All of this is made possible by that one choice,
• 55:00
  of just putting down the alcohol. And the funny thing about it is I did it here in Florida, even though I live in Detroit. I was away seven years ago right now drinking in Key West, Florida. And I just went, I got to put this down. And I did and walked away on New Year's seven years ago. So rapid fire questions, one word to one sentence. And we're just going to go to, and there's about 10 of them. So how do you rebuild trust after years of chaos? You just listen and empathy statement.
• 55:28
  Worst advice you hear online about addiction? Throw them out and they'll quit using. We tried that with my father. Didn't work. The most powerful question you ask in a session? What brings you in here? Throw them out. Simple. So simple. One tool you teach every family? Don't play the villain. What do addicts need more than love? Understanding. One myth that drives you crazy?
• 55:58
  that you're powerless. One moment that shook you professionally. I don't know if it comes down to one moment. It's a lot of little moments that shaped me over time. And that's living, isn't it? That's living. What's harder, helping the addict or the family? I can tell you it's harder to be a family member than it is to be an addict.
• 56:18
  Ooh, and you know firsthand. I'm so sorry about your family again, but you've done something good, and I'm channeling your... And let me just say this. Even though I came from an addictive family, I wouldn't say I had a bad childhood, and I wouldn't say I had a bad family. And I feel like that's, it makes me able to see that someone can be an addict and be a good person.
• 56:38
  Like, and be a value. Like I can see the dualness there instead of putting somebody in one. Like my mom had a drug problem. I thought she was great. She was pretty. She was creative. She was likable. You know, like everybody would have like wanted my mom to be their mom. So it's not a black or white issue in my mind. So now that you know everything, why did your mom choose to go down that path?
• 57:03
  I don't know that she chose to go down that path. I think a lot of little choices. You don't really, you don't, you're not picking the path. You're just choosing to go right and then go left and then go right. And then you find yourself. Why did, why did she drink or do drugs? I don't know. I think she, I think it was fun at first. And then I think it became a problem because my mom was kind of fun. And I think it was probably just fun at first.
• 57:28
  My father at 16 took his first hit and was addicted immediately. So this is, it slowed down his brain. He was the smartest, had his highest IQ in the family, and it slowed his, and he just said that just, the high felt so good. He just was chasing that all the time. Felt like a missing piece. Sad. Hope for Families, recoverycenter.com. Amber, this has been...
• 57:57
  So it just, it's, it's resonated through my whole soul and I love these cause it just pays it forward. And if we helped one person, one family, any person to shed light, um, we did our job for today and now guys head over to her YouTube channel and, uh, until next time be harder to life. And thanks. Thanks for being on the show.
• 58:18
  Thanks for having me. Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Seagull supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit trustntm.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.