Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Starving Children Run Door-to-Door For Help, Forced to Eat Feces, Handcuffed

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Starving Children Run Door-to-Door For Help, Forced to Eat Feces, Handcuffed · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Twins shockingly then going door
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Speaker 1: to door in a neighborhood begging for help, many people
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Speaker 1: not letting them in. When one neighbor does let them in,
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Speaker 1: what unfolds is something I'll never forget. I'm Nancy Grace.
0:36
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
0:39
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM one eleven. First
0:43
Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends, Akhou. It's
0:47
Speaker 1: close to five o'clock on Tuesday morning. Home surveillance cameras
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Speaker 1: show this pair of sixteen year old twins, a boy
0:54
Speaker 1: and a girl, who have just escaped. They spent more
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Speaker 1: than half an hour agoing door to door desperately seeking help.
1:01
Speaker 1: Help let a same please, what what happened? It just
1:11
Speaker 1: needs someone to be right up. No what they do
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Speaker 1: that I'm sure of the circumstances. Nearly all of the
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Speaker 1: neighbors told the twins to keep moving. At about five thirty.
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Speaker 1: The temperature was in the fifties. No one would take
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Speaker 1: them in fifty degrees outside, and they're begging for someone
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Speaker 1: to help them. A boy and a girl. Take a
1:36
Speaker 1: listen now to Matt Dorney. It was exactly five to
1:40
Speaker 1: twenty seven in the morning when I heard the doorbow ring,
1:44
Speaker 1: A single mother at home with her daughter was the
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Speaker 1: first and only person to open the door. I just
1:50
Speaker 1: knew they were kids right away, so I like quickly
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Speaker 1: opened the door. I told him to come in, and
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Speaker 1: I quickly shut the door and I locked it. The
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Speaker 1: woman who asked do we not use her name or
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Speaker 1: show her face, says she led the twin star kitchen.
2:00
Speaker 1: I sat them down about them, blankets, covered them up,
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Speaker 1: and the first thing the little boy said was we're starving. Basically,
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Speaker 1: we're sayingly we're hungry. You're gonna give me something to eat.
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Speaker 1: A single mother home along with her daughter, is the
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Speaker 1: only one in the entire neighborhood to let them in
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Speaker 1: or to offer assistance, to do anything at all for them.
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Speaker 1: Has nobody heard the story? The true story, the parable
2:31
Speaker 1: of the good Samaritan. Well, thank Heaven, this single mother
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Speaker 1: did articulosten now to our friends. At ABC five thirty
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Speaker 1: am Tuesday morning, the pair approached the door of a
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Speaker 1: neighbor who wants to remain anonymous. The woman taking the
2:49
Speaker 1: teams in, feeding them, giving them blankets, the brother and
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Speaker 1: sister telling her they hadn't eaten in more than a week,
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Speaker 1: and they had unsuccessfully tried to escape at the us
3:00
Speaker 1: Cecily tried to escape the day before. Who would do
3:04
Speaker 1: this to the children? Two teens barely teens, severely malnourished
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Speaker 1: and listen to this forced to drink bleach, had bleach
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Speaker 1: poured on their genitals, a boy and a girl. They
3:24
Speaker 1: were forced to eat and drink their own urine and feces,
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Speaker 1: beaten with metal rods, and fed mustard sandwiches, but only
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Speaker 1: once a week. Who who would do this to these
3:44
Speaker 1: children they had just managed to escape? Take a listen
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Speaker 1: nown to our cut four our friends at Khou eleven.
3:53
Speaker 1: Looking at the sixteen year olds, it was obvious. After
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Speaker 1: giving them something to eat, she started asking questions and
3:59
Speaker 1: a little or was here standy. She was visibly shaken
4:02
Speaker 1: and was showing me her handcuffs and would say, we
4:05
Speaker 1: just broke out of beef. They told me that their
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Speaker 1: mom kept him locked in a laundry room, naked, zip
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Speaker 1: tight from the ankles and handcuffed from the wrist. They
4:12
Speaker 1: said we would pee and poop on ourselves, and they
4:15
Speaker 1: say when we needed to bathe, the mom would let
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Speaker 1: them use a dirty mutt potter to bathe. They didn't
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Speaker 1: get about they got dirty hut potter. You know, I've
4:25
Speaker 1: seen a lot and prosecuted a lot of bad guys
4:30
Speaker 1: and a lot of bad women. I mean bad things.
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Speaker 1: I don't even like to think about drowning a teen
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Speaker 1: girl upside down on a bucket of water, cigarette marks
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Speaker 1: on a two year old baby girl. Just it just
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Speaker 1: goes on and on the cases I've seen investigated and
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Speaker 1: or prosecuted. But this case, I just don't know what
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Speaker 1: it is about it forcing them to stay in a
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Speaker 1: room completely naked, only giving a bath occasionally, and then
5:06
Speaker 1: in the dirty mock water, pouring bleach on the children's genitals,
5:14
Speaker 1: making them drink bleach urine, eat feces. You know, you
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Speaker 1: wonder what devil straight from hell would do this to
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Speaker 1: another person, let alone a child, let alone two children twins.
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Speaker 1: Only to find out they give the name of the perpetrator,
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Speaker 1: and that name is mommy Straight out to Nick Perlin,
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Speaker 1: multimedia journalists joining us from w b RZ News two
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Speaker 1: in Baton Rouge. You can find him on Facebook at
5:49
Speaker 1: Nick Perlin, on Twitter at Nick Pearlin Underscore TV. Nick,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Let's just start at
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Speaker 1: the beginning with these two twins, boy girl just like mine,
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Speaker 1: extremely thin, malnourished, going door to door and there is
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Speaker 1: ring camera video of this. Nick Purlin, tell let's just
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Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Kick it off at five twenty
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Speaker 1: a m. Nick Purlin, Yeah, I mean, you see that
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Speaker 1: surveillance video. It's shocking. Like you said, they're going door
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Speaker 1: to door begging, you know, just asking for anybody to
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Speaker 1: do anything to help. And like you said, it was
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Speaker 1: that one woman who you know, let them in. And
6:33
Speaker 1: just that surveillance video is really just stunning to see
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Speaker 1: two teenagers looking that thin, and you can see photographs,
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Speaker 1: you know, scars around their risk from the handcuffs. I mean,
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Speaker 1: it really is just stunning to see that security video
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Speaker 1: that you saw at five in the morning. There. I'm
6:52
Speaker 1: taking a look at it right now. And again it's
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Speaker 1: in the low fifties and one child doesn't have on
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Speaker 1: a shirt outside they're both freezing, they're both begging, but
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Speaker 1: nobody will let them in. Also with me, in addition
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Speaker 1: to Nick pearl And joining us from w b r
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Speaker 1: Z two, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us. Renowned psychoanalyst joining
7:17
Speaker 1: us from Beverly Hills, star of a hit series on Netflix,
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Speaker 1: Bling Empire. You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall
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Speaker 1: dot com Doctor Bethany. I mean, if you're afraid that
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Speaker 1: this is the roofs of some sort, which I understand,
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Speaker 1: I would think you would at least offer them assistance,
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Speaker 1: like if they're at the front door and your home alone,
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Speaker 1: like this single mom was with her daughter, but you
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Speaker 1: want to help me give them food at the back door,
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Speaker 1: and blankets and coats or something to hot to drink, anything,
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Speaker 1: and let them go around and get it. There's more
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Speaker 1: than one way to skin a cat. There's more than
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Speaker 1: one way to save a life or help these children.
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Speaker 1: Before I get to who is absolutely going to hell
8:03
Speaker 1: after a pit stop in the penitentiary, I want to
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Speaker 1: talk about these neighbors who didn't do a darned thing
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Speaker 1: to help too. I mean, when you see the picture,
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Speaker 1: they're clearly now nurished, they're pitiful, they're children. And Nancy,
8:19
Speaker 1: what's interesting about the single mom and the clip we
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Speaker 1: just heard is the first thing she said was I
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Speaker 1: could tell they were children, And it's the single mom
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Speaker 1: with her own child in her home, the one who
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Speaker 1: maybe is the most vulnerable out of all the neighbors.
8:34
Speaker 1: Think of these really worth thieves or robbers going door
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Speaker 1: to door, it would be the single mom with the
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Speaker 1: child alone at home who wouldn't open the door. But
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Speaker 1: that is the person who does open the door. She
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Speaker 1: sees the humanity of these children. Nancy. We've been talking
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Speaker 1: so much about mothering in our national discourse, right we're
8:52
Speaker 1: talking about what othering? Where you treat somebody like they're
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Speaker 1: not human, like they're other, like they're disgithering mothering er Okay,
9:02
Speaker 1: school me, Bethany. What is that other thing? Is? When
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Speaker 1: you treat somebody because they're a different class, race, socio
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Speaker 1: and economic status, as if they don't have value and
9:13
Speaker 1: they don't have rights. That's mothering. And I think about
9:17
Speaker 1: it in terms of how we treat fellow citizens in
9:21
Speaker 1: our nation. I've never thought about it in terms of children.
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Speaker 1: This is the most profound example of other an. Oh, Bethany,
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Speaker 1: wait a second. I'm looking at a video of the girl.
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Speaker 1: She's obviously in the home. Have you seen this jackie
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Speaker 1: with a single mom who has got it looks like
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Speaker 1: a towel or a white blanket draped around her and
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Speaker 1: this is the girl because the boy didn't have on
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Speaker 1: a shirt and she's got her she's got her hands.
9:50
Speaker 1: It looks like up on the bar or the island.
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Speaker 1: You know a lot of houses have those way, do
9:55
Speaker 1: you have an island between the kitchen sink and the
9:58
Speaker 1: stove and then I could sit at the bar on stools.
10:02
Speaker 1: She's got a little hands up and they are covered
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Speaker 1: in scars and it looks like scabs that have been
10:15
Speaker 1: scratched and bruises on guys. I'm just hearing in my ear.
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Speaker 1: I have doctor free in Hess with US pediatrician, pediatric
10:25
Speaker 1: emergency Medicine, child safety expert, consultant and founder of pedemom
10:31
Speaker 1: dot com. And tell me if I'm mispronouncing that doctor
10:34
Speaker 1: has peed I m O M dot com dot is
10:41
Speaker 1: that correct? Doctor has PEDEMM. That is correct justice pd
10:45
Speaker 1: like pediatrician and mom because I'm a doctor Hess. Have
10:49
Speaker 1: you seen the picture of this girl's risks I have.
10:54
Speaker 1: There's also a picture of the brothers risks we which
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Speaker 1: looks pretty similar and actually looks like there's holes puncture
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Speaker 1: holes and the boys risks I mean on his right hand.
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Speaker 1: Doctor has for people that can't see it, Hopefully, That's
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Speaker 1: just what I was going to say, thank you for
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Speaker 1: the sign. Jackie's holding up a sign. Look at a
11:17
Speaker 1: swollen hands. You see the arm, the forearm, then the
11:22
Speaker 1: wrist starts to get a little bit swollen. Then you
11:25
Speaker 1: see the marks on his wrists and it looks like
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Speaker 1: actual puncture holes where the girls look like scats. And
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Speaker 1: in his hands and fingers especially, I don't know what
11:36
Speaker 1: you call the part of the hand between the wrist
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Speaker 1: and the knuckles are completely swollen up. What let's just
11:43
Speaker 1: start with that. What does this mean? The likelihood is
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Speaker 1: I mean just by looking at the pictures, obviously have
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Speaker 1: to examine the child, but looking at the pictures, it
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Speaker 1: looks like it was definitely long standing contraction of the risk. Okay,
11:56
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Contraction of the wrist something, whether
12:01
Speaker 1: it be handcuffs, a zip, tie ropes. I mean, we
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Speaker 1: unfortunately do see it quite often has been tied around
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Speaker 1: the risks for long periods of time. And what can
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Speaker 1: happen is that that can start to constrict that area,
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Speaker 1: which decreases blood flow distantly, meaning further out to the
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Speaker 1: hands and the fingers, which can cost swelling. And if
12:22
Speaker 1: you read back into some of the reports. It also
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Speaker 1: says that she had admitted in the past, although I
12:27
Speaker 1: don't know if it was two of these two children,
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Speaker 1: that she also did force these children to stand to
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Speaker 1: do push up the end or plank like movements for
12:36
Speaker 1: so long that their hands would be come swollen. And
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Speaker 1: the idea that possibly they might have been doing that
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Speaker 1: while their risks were constricted or tied or bound in
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Speaker 1: some way would definitely increase the chances of that being swollen.
12:50
Speaker 1: But you can see by those marks that is not like,
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Speaker 1: not that a one time tying up of children several okay, obviously,
12:57
Speaker 1: but this is more than just one time. This is
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Speaker 1: you know, they're scarring there. There's changes the hyperpigmentation of
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Speaker 1: the skin, which means increased darkening of the skin, which
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Speaker 1: you can get from scarring over time. So there's a
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Speaker 1: combination of newish looking injuries on the wrists to darkening
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Speaker 1: hyperpigmentation of the skin, scarring, scabbing. All the above is
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Speaker 1: kind of seen on that, So it does definitely look
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Speaker 1: like it's something more long term and pretty frequent, if
13:25
Speaker 1: not continuous time stories with Nancy Grace. The twin brother
13:43
Speaker 1: had deep cuts as well as the sister on his
13:46
Speaker 1: wrists from handcuffs. These are from actual handcuffs because they
13:52
Speaker 1: had the handcuffs with them. I'm not sure exactly how
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Speaker 1: they broke free the two toys and told the Good
14:02
Speaker 1: Samaritan mom they had just broken free from being handcuffed
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Speaker 1: by their own mother. You were just hearing the voice
14:11
Speaker 1: of doctor free in hiss. You know, it seems to
14:15
Speaker 1: get worse and worse. Take a listen to our friends
14:19
Speaker 1: at ABC tonight. These are the heroine images of a
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Speaker 1: brother and sister who police say were being held captive
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Speaker 1: in their own home. The images of their pleas for
14:30
Speaker 1: help were captured by a doorbell video camera. The two
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Speaker 1: teams are twins. They were going door to door begging
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Speaker 1: for someone to help them. They were signs on their
14:43
Speaker 1: arms they've been handcuffed, both barefoot and one shirtless. They
14:47
Speaker 1: were saying that they had just gotten here from Baton
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Speaker 1: rou Shaping. They said that they just moved here and
14:54
Speaker 1: that the mom didn't just close the address to them,
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Speaker 1: and so they didn't know where they lived. They did
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Speaker 1: not even no their own address. Jackie, I want to
15:04
Speaker 1: skip forward to our cut seven from khou Or. Documents
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Speaker 1: reveal how the abused twins were able to escape from
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Speaker 1: their mother and boyfriend's home early Tuesday morning. Documents state
15:18
Speaker 1: the boy found the key inside his mother's purse. He
15:21
Speaker 1: hit the key in his mouth until his mother and
15:23
Speaker 1: her boyfriend were asleep. That's how they were able to
15:26
Speaker 1: knock on neighbor's doors for help. One mother finally let
15:31
Speaker 1: them in and called police. They literally were running for
15:34
Speaker 1: their lives. I mean, they knew that if they stayed bared,
15:38
Speaker 1: that was going to happen with them. Mike Herman joining
15:41
Speaker 1: me a private investigator out of California at Herman Investigations
15:44
Speaker 1: dot com. Former police lieutenant, co founder of PTSD Brotherhood
15:49
Speaker 1: dot A. Mike Herman, thank you for being with us.
15:52
Speaker 1: It sounds like something out of a movie. The boy
15:56
Speaker 1: found the handcuff key in his mother's pocket book and
16:00
Speaker 1: hid it in his mouth until the mom and her
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Speaker 1: boyfriend go to sleep, and that's the only way they
16:08
Speaker 1: managed to get out. Yeah, it's amazing. Unfortunately, through my career,
16:13
Speaker 1: I've investigated so many child abuse cases and they just
16:17
Speaker 1: keep getting worse and worse. You thought with the Turpin
16:20
Speaker 1: case a few years ago that that want to get topped,
16:23
Speaker 1: and it's that any parent can treat their kids this way.
16:27
Speaker 1: And like doctor Bethanie was talking with the injuries to
16:33
Speaker 1: their risk. You can look at those photographs and you
16:35
Speaker 1: can tell they're just so prolonged abuse. There's actually holes
16:38
Speaker 1: in their skin along with dried up scabs and deep,
16:44
Speaker 1: deep bruises. We also learned the little girl was wearing
16:49
Speaker 1: a plastic grocery bag as a shirt. So this boy
16:55
Speaker 1: had the wherewithal to hide the handcuff key in his
17:01
Speaker 1: mouth in order to escape after mommy and boyfriend go
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Speaker 1: to sleep in their soft kingsized bed upstairs and their
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Speaker 1: six hundred thousand dollars home. Guys, take a listen to
17:14
Speaker 1: you more. This is Anniel Ruise khou Our Cut eleven.
17:19
Speaker 1: According to court documents, the teen said their mother would
17:23
Speaker 1: strike them with an extension cords, curtain, bronze, and metal pulls.
17:27
Speaker 1: The records say the boy told deputies his mom's boyfriend
17:31
Speaker 1: punch his hand last week. Injuries neighbor's state were visible.
17:35
Speaker 1: They're skin. I mean the little kid had like scratches
17:38
Speaker 1: and scabs and bruises all down his arm, down the
17:42
Speaker 1: back of his body. Documents state the mother would make
17:45
Speaker 1: them drink chemicals such as bleach lyssel and would spray
17:49
Speaker 1: easy Off Oven cleaner in their mouths if they talk
17:52
Speaker 1: too much and say she would pour bleach on them,
17:55
Speaker 1: causing their skin to burn, including in their general area. Okay,
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Speaker 1: I want to go now to our special guest doctor
18:03
Speaker 1: free in his pediatrician and pediatric emergency medicine experts. What
18:10
Speaker 1: does that do to a child? Being forced to eat
18:15
Speaker 1: or drink lysol and easy Off. Yeah, so drinking being
18:20
Speaker 1: forced to drink chemicals, cleaning chemicals can do some significant damage.
18:25
Speaker 1: It all depends specifically on the pH of those chemicals,
18:30
Speaker 1: but it can cause significant burns of the mucosa, meaning
18:34
Speaker 1: the soft lining of the mouth, of the esophagus, the stomach.
18:38
Speaker 1: It can cause electrolate imbalances. There's there's lots of issues
18:43
Speaker 1: that can cause, especially if it's long term or in
18:45
Speaker 1: large amounts. Easy Off Oven Cleaner has dipropylene glycol, propol
18:53
Speaker 1: ether is sabutane, and I know that that's flammable because
18:59
Speaker 1: it has ut as part of the name, potassium carbonate,
19:04
Speaker 1: ethan alamine, smectype clay, benzel alcohol, sodium lawl, sarcosinate, paraffin, wax,
19:14
Speaker 1: and fragrance. The main ingredient is something I've never seen before.
19:21
Speaker 1: Monothalamine and diethylene, and that's what she would put in
19:26
Speaker 1: their mouth. I mean to me, it sounds like that
19:28
Speaker 1: would burn out your stomach the way it burns debris
19:32
Speaker 1: off the inside of your oven. Yeah. Well, and in
19:35
Speaker 1: addition to it's not even just about your mouth, esophagus,
19:39
Speaker 1: your stomach, Especially when we're talking about sprays like that
19:42
Speaker 1: or even other chemicals that might cause them to cough
19:45
Speaker 1: and or vomit. They can actually aspirate those chemicals as well.
19:49
Speaker 1: Meeting take those chemicals and they end up getting stucked
19:52
Speaker 1: into the lungs, which can then cause lung damage as well. So,
19:56
Speaker 1: I mean, the danger of this is huge. There's no
19:59
Speaker 1: telling what long term damage has been done to their mouth.
20:03
Speaker 1: Think about tender your mouth is even when you get
20:05
Speaker 1: an ulcer and they have lysol and easy off oven
20:10
Speaker 1: cleaner sprayed and poured into their mouth and their float
20:15
Speaker 1: and that tender paint lining going down to your stomach
20:21
Speaker 1: and in your stomach. And that's not all. Listen to
20:26
Speaker 1: our cut twelve. The girl told investigators that her brother
20:30
Speaker 1: defecated and their mother made them both eat it and
20:33
Speaker 1: drink his urine. Don't understand how a mother can do
20:36
Speaker 1: the serry kids, and court documents also state that teens
20:39
Speaker 1: were both given benadrell. The boys said he was given
20:42
Speaker 1: twenty four tablets, which caused him to have a seizure.
20:46
Speaker 1: After he had a seizure, he says he was only
20:49
Speaker 1: given twenty tablets to go to sleep. The girl said
20:52
Speaker 1: she was also given benadrell to go to sleep. And
20:54
Speaker 1: I have no doubt that these kids would have not
20:56
Speaker 1: made it a life if they had not escaped, because
20:58
Speaker 1: they were literally skinned alone to doctor Bethany Marshall's Psychoana's
21:02
Speaker 1: Journing Us out of Beverly Hills. I know you recall
21:05
Speaker 1: the case that we analyze of the military mom who
21:10
Speaker 1: had climbed high up in the military along with her
21:14
Speaker 1: husband and he traveled all the time, and she shot
21:18
Speaker 1: both of her children dead, and she shot the daughter
21:22
Speaker 1: who was at her computer doing her homework. Both of
21:25
Speaker 1: the children were all a students in the mouth because
21:28
Speaker 1: she said that the daughter was getting quote mouthy. And
21:33
Speaker 1: here we see this mother, according to the children, making
21:38
Speaker 1: them fill their mouths with lysol or easy off when
21:41
Speaker 1: they quote talked back. See. I think it's interesting with
21:45
Speaker 1: military mom that she killed them if they were about
21:47
Speaker 1: to achieve even greater success. And I think a huge
21:52
Speaker 1: emotion that leads to child abuse, and we don't think
21:55
Speaker 1: about it this much is envy and contempt. My child's beautiful,
21:59
Speaker 1: my child's developing, my child's going to become a full
22:02
Speaker 1: human being, and that's going to make me feel horrible
22:07
Speaker 1: about myself. It sounds so sort of tried in benign
22:10
Speaker 1: the way I'm saying it, But I really think that
22:13
Speaker 1: these parents, they don't want their children to thrive, to succeed,
22:20
Speaker 1: to be beautiful, to have their own voices. This is
22:24
Speaker 1: why the mouth the esophagus are often mutilated. That a
22:29
Speaker 1: military mom shot her daughter in the mouth. It's like,
22:33
Speaker 1: I don't want you to be a full human being.
22:37
Speaker 1: I cannot tolerate it. And besides that, when you have needs,
22:42
Speaker 1: I see you as greedy and bad. So another thing
22:46
Speaker 1: I'm going to do is I'm going to put a
22:48
Speaker 1: lock on the refrigerators. Did we often see that with
22:50
Speaker 1: child abuse that the adults will say, well, I had
22:53
Speaker 1: to put a lock on the refrigerator because they were
22:56
Speaker 1: eating too much food. So not only is there really
23:01
Speaker 1: mutilating and torturing the mouth, the esophagus, the lungs, the stomach.
23:06
Speaker 1: But there's also a deprivation of food, as if they're
23:10
Speaker 1: trying to shrink the child to as small as the
23:15
Speaker 1: child could be, so that child doesn't even take up
23:17
Speaker 1: space on this planet. I mean, it's really complex, all
23:21
Speaker 1: these motivations, Bethany, just nicely you want to cry. I
23:24
Speaker 1: was thinking this this morning about what I could possibly
23:28
Speaker 1: do to tempt my daughter because she is into organic
23:33
Speaker 1: eating and healthy lifestyle, and she makes a certain portion
23:40
Speaker 1: on her plight and she eats that. And I've made
23:43
Speaker 1: all sorts of desserts Dodger Bethany, And of course I
23:46
Speaker 1: had to keep your way from John Day because they'll
23:48
Speaker 1: eat the whole thing at once. But finally I found
23:50
Speaker 1: a dessert and this is not applied, but it's Marey
23:53
Speaker 1: Calendar chocolate silk pie with a chocolate. She likes that.
23:58
Speaker 1: So I will order then at least once a week.
24:01
Speaker 1: And think, I'm always thinking of something that they will like,
24:06
Speaker 1: and how I can hide veggies. And here's this mom
24:11
Speaker 1: putting easy off as and cleaner and lysol down their mouths,
24:18
Speaker 1: and when they do get something to eat, whatso week
24:21
Speaker 1: it's a mustard, relish, sandwich, and nan. If you think
24:24
Speaker 1: about what we do with our children from the time
24:26
Speaker 1: their infants, we smile and we tell them you're beautiful,
24:31
Speaker 1: you are the center of the world. Your mom meet
24:33
Speaker 1: little prince, your mom eat little princess. And then after that,
24:36
Speaker 1: the first thing we want to do is feed them.
24:38
Speaker 1: We always want to feed our children. We want to
24:40
Speaker 1: make sure that they have enough nutrition. And also when
24:43
Speaker 1: we offer food, we offer love. So to not smile,
24:48
Speaker 1: to not upregulate, to not feed, to not nurture, it
24:52
Speaker 1: really runs against the whole instinct of being human. You know,
24:58
Speaker 1: there's another dynamic, and I wanna go to Sarah Ford
25:01
Speaker 1: on this. She's the legal director at the South Carolina
25:03
Speaker 1: Victim's Assistants Network at sc VAN legal dot org, former
25:11
Speaker 1: prosecutor focusing on crimes on women and children, adjunct professor
25:16
Speaker 1: at South Carolina State University. Sarah, thank you so much
25:19
Speaker 1: for being with us. I want to talk to you
25:21
Speaker 1: about the dynamic we just heard where the mom will
25:24
Speaker 1: let the boyfriend join in and beat them. I mean
25:28
Speaker 1: the things I see mothers let their sorry husbands, lovers, boyfriends,
25:35
Speaker 1: exes do to their their blood children and their adopted children.
25:40
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it. They let these boyfriends
25:44
Speaker 1: join in with the abuse. It's absolutely horrific, Nancy. I mean,
25:49
Speaker 1: with these types of cases, so often you see that
25:52
Speaker 1: these behaviors existed, like in this case where you know
25:56
Speaker 1: this mother had been abusing these children consistently, but also
25:59
Speaker 1: allowing their partner um. You know, I think in cases
26:03
Speaker 1: that I've seen it, it's become like a bonding connection
26:07
Speaker 1: for you know, the the abuser and their boyfriend or husband.
26:11
Speaker 1: And it's absolutely sickening. I mean, this is this is
26:14
Speaker 1: child torture. And to look at that house, I mean
26:18
Speaker 1: Nick Perlin and Sarah Ford, doctor Bethany, Mike Kerman, doctors
26:23
Speaker 1: please jump in. Do not be limited by my questions
26:27
Speaker 1: to you, Nick Pearland, when I think about okay, let
26:32
Speaker 1: me ask you another questions. Why I go off on
26:34
Speaker 1: a tangent. How did they escape? Nick Peerlan? How did
26:37
Speaker 1: they finally get at hey? Nick? Nick? Wait a minute?
26:40
Speaker 1: Take listen to our cut thirteen from Katie rk. Court
26:44
Speaker 1: documents filed in Harris County include the interview the sixteen
26:47
Speaker 1: year olds gave detectives, the twins saying they were forced
26:50
Speaker 1: to drink bleach, had corrosive oven cleaner sprayed in their mouths,
26:55
Speaker 1: and we're routinely beaten and burned. During the interview, police
26:59
Speaker 1: say the girl was wearing a gray plastic grocery bag
27:02
Speaker 1: around her neck. She said that's what she had to
27:04
Speaker 1: use as a shirt. They did not hold a single
27:07
Speaker 1: thing back. They were saying that the mom had him
27:11
Speaker 1: in handcuffs in the laundry room, that they were not
27:12
Speaker 1: allowed to eat. What was just all he could think
27:15
Speaker 1: about was food. He said, we're starving, We're starving. And
27:18
Speaker 1: another thing I learned Nick Pearl and joining us from
27:21
Speaker 1: w b RZ is they were given these mustard sandwiches.
27:25
Speaker 1: They had to drink water from the supply valve that
27:30
Speaker 1: feeds the washing machine. Yeah, I mean how did they
27:34
Speaker 1: get out? Were they living orre they forced to live
27:36
Speaker 1: in the laundry room. Yeah, so that's it looks like
27:39
Speaker 1: that's where they were supposed to live. The two twins
27:42
Speaker 1: stayed together in that room. And yeah, they, like you said,
27:46
Speaker 1: they had to drink water from the supply valve that's
27:50
Speaker 1: the washing machine. And you know the mustard and rella
27:53
Speaker 1: sandwiches that you were talking about. You're talking one to
27:55
Speaker 1: three sandwiches per week. I mean those kids were starving.
27:58
Speaker 1: That neighbor that the statition in Houston interviewed said that
28:02
Speaker 1: they were literally skinning bones. She could see the abuse.
28:06
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's I mean, it's it's stunning, it's it's crazy. Yeah,
28:11
Speaker 1: it's it's surprising they lived. I'm surprised they live because
28:15
Speaker 1: being forced to drink easy off oven cleaner and li
28:20
Speaker 1: saw and given a mustard sandwich a couple of times
28:23
Speaker 1: a week. So Nick, how did they get out? So
28:26
Speaker 1: they got out because they were able to escape. They
28:30
Speaker 1: unhandcuffed themselves and they ran. They found help somehow, somebody
28:35
Speaker 1: called the police. And I mean when the police were
28:39
Speaker 1: able to finally show up to that family's home because
28:42
Speaker 1: like you said earlier, they didn't know the address, that's
28:45
Speaker 1: when the mother or the boyfriend and the other kids
28:47
Speaker 1: were gone. But that's how the two twins were able
28:51
Speaker 1: to get out, just because they were able to be
28:54
Speaker 1: you know, unhandcuffed themselves and were lucky enough to find
28:57
Speaker 1: a good Samaritan who would help them. I guess they
29:00
Speaker 1: snuck out while the mother and her live in were
29:04
Speaker 1: sleeping and by the time the cops could figure out
29:07
Speaker 1: where these children came from because they didn't even know
29:10
Speaker 1: their address. They just moved there. And I guarantee you
29:13
Speaker 1: there's a record of abuse from wherever they came from. Right,
29:17
Speaker 1: But that's how they got out. They waited for mommy
29:19
Speaker 1: to fall asleep. Is that right, Nick Perlin? Yes, that
29:21
Speaker 1: absolutely right. Time stories with Nancy Greece. What about this,
29:43
Speaker 1: Everybody jump in because I think there's a lot more
29:47
Speaker 1: to it than what we see on the service. She
29:49
Speaker 1: forbade her children to use the bathroom. There were forced
29:53
Speaker 1: to defecate and urinate on themselves, then eat it and
29:57
Speaker 1: drink it. Then they only had dirty water from a
30:01
Speaker 1: mup bucket to wash themselves. Extreme meetings with extension cords,
30:06
Speaker 1: curtain ross metal poles. The boyfriend, uh they love her
30:12
Speaker 1: in this case often would punch the sixteen year old
30:16
Speaker 1: boy in a nutshell. To you, doctor Bethany, what does
30:20
Speaker 1: it mean that she did not let them go to
30:23
Speaker 1: the bathroom, They had to defecate and urinate in the
30:27
Speaker 1: laundry room, then eat it and drink it. Well, to
30:30
Speaker 1: me that that indicates sadism, that there's there's true pleasure
30:36
Speaker 1: in the torturing and the suffering of others that somehow
30:40
Speaker 1: it stimulated her well being. It made her feel good
30:43
Speaker 1: about herself. It kind of gave her like wind beneath
30:46
Speaker 1: her wings, so to speak, to go out into the
30:48
Speaker 1: world knowing that she had these two little torture cases
30:51
Speaker 1: in her basement, and think about this, there's five other
30:54
Speaker 1: children in the house that apparently looked well fed. I'm
30:59
Speaker 1: thinking I have read any reports about that, but that
31:03
Speaker 1: they were well fed, that they were taken care of.
31:05
Speaker 1: So this is a typical Pydnamic in these abus of
31:08
Speaker 1: torture chamber households, where the parents choose one or two
31:13
Speaker 1: children to torture, to beat, and then they choose the
31:16
Speaker 1: other children to elevate. I had a case like this
31:19
Speaker 1: in my practice where you know, an adult survivor of
31:23
Speaker 1: child sexual abuse and physical abuse, mental all of that,
31:26
Speaker 1: and she was starved and hers she would have to
31:29
Speaker 1: sit on the floor in the kitchen while her mother
31:34
Speaker 1: fed her sister beautiful food and she would could smell
31:38
Speaker 1: the food wafting, and she was so hungry salivating all
31:41
Speaker 1: of that. The sister got love and she got hate.
31:44
Speaker 1: And it's still never been able to figure it out
31:47
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. It's inexplicable. As we've been talking about,
31:50
Speaker 1: this is something else that's hard to figure out. The
31:53
Speaker 1: public persona the mother exuded the exact opposite. Take a
32:00
Speaker 1: listen to our cut twenty one from our friends at
32:02
Speaker 1: climb online. Just over a year ago, the forty year
32:05
Speaker 1: old mom was posting to TikTok clips of herself dancing
32:08
Speaker 1: with her five youngest children. The oldest set of twins
32:11
Speaker 1: cannot be seen in the videos. Her post to TikTok
32:15
Speaker 1: lasted about three months, beginning in March twenty twenty, with
32:18
Speaker 1: Duncan posting ten videos in all. Duncan posted to Instagram
32:22
Speaker 1: a little longer. Those posts ended in June of twenty
32:25
Speaker 1: twenty one, but seemed to show a group of happy, looking,
32:27
Speaker 1: healthy children dancing Zakiah. Duncan's last post praised her now
32:31
Speaker 1: twelve year old son, Javion, a twin himself. An Instagram
32:35
Speaker 1: photo from April twenty twenty one shows four of Duncan's
32:38
Speaker 1: sons sitting around a kitchen table eating candy. The caption says,
32:42
Speaker 1: I love spending time with my boys. A month later,
32:45
Speaker 1: in May twenty twenty one, she posted a photo of
32:48
Speaker 1: her youngest son Nicholas congratulating him for graduating from Ideas
32:52
Speaker 1: Academy School. So she's posting all these videos of her
32:57
Speaker 1: dancing with her children around the house and loving mom
33:02
Speaker 1: videos and posts. Not only that she forced the children
33:07
Speaker 1: to read letters expressing their law for her on Mother's
33:12
Speaker 1: Day if she posted it on Insta, a series of
33:16
Speaker 1: wildly misleading posts depicting a happy, loving family and also
33:22
Speaker 1: on the outside, you'd never know what's going on on
33:25
Speaker 1: the inside. Take a listen to our friends at primal
33:27
Speaker 1: line and Cut twenty two. It is believed the family
33:32
Speaker 1: only moved into the Houston neighborhood this summer. The home
33:35
Speaker 1: has four bedroom, three and a half baths, and includes
33:38
Speaker 1: a formal living and dining room. There is also a
33:41
Speaker 1: covered patio, two car attached garage, and access to a
33:44
Speaker 1: community pool in water Park. It's not yet known whether
33:48
Speaker 1: Duncan and her boyfriend bought or rented the house. The
33:51
Speaker 1: house had sold in late July and was valued between
33:54
Speaker 1: five hundred and fifty two thousand and six hundred and
33:57
Speaker 1: twenty seven thousand, six hundred thousan dollar house nearly three
34:02
Speaker 1: quarters of a million dollar house, and she's baiting handcuffing
34:06
Speaker 1: her twins to the point that they are malnourished and
34:10
Speaker 1: close to death. It reminds me of the Turpid family
34:14
Speaker 1: the House of Horrors. Take a list of our cut
34:17
Speaker 1: fourteen b from ACGTN. Officials say when they entered the
34:21
Speaker 1: Turpin home, they found a modern day horror foul smell,
34:25
Speaker 1: extremely dirty conditions, and they say it was immediately clear
34:29
Speaker 1: that the siblings were malnourished. Authorities say they found three
34:32
Speaker 1: of the children shackled to their beds with chains and padlocks,
34:36
Speaker 1: kept in dark and unclean conditions inside this Riverside County,
34:40
Speaker 1: California home. Deputies located twelve children inside the house as
34:45
Speaker 1: young as two years old. While the family kept this
34:48
Speaker 1: active Facebook page, which appears to show a happy group trips, vacations,
34:52
Speaker 1: smiling faces. Authorities discovered that seven of the children pictures
34:57
Speaker 1: appeared so malnourished that they did look like and they
35:00
Speaker 1: were actually adult. The oldest is twenty nine years old.
35:04
Speaker 1: That mom, the chirping Mom, would post pictures of the
35:06
Speaker 1: children on trips and matching outfits. The reality is they
35:11
Speaker 1: were being beaten and starved and shackled to their beds.
35:15
Speaker 1: Joining me, everybody Nick Perlin from Baton Rouge w BRC. You, Nick,
35:21
Speaker 1: note that this mom has prior incidents of child abuse,
35:26
Speaker 1: yet here she is torturing the children, maybe making them
35:30
Speaker 1: eat their own poop and drink their own urine, handcuffing them,
35:35
Speaker 1: starving them, letting the boyfriend join in. What was her prior? Yeah,
35:40
Speaker 1: so in twenty twelve she had a child abuse kick
35:43
Speaker 1: back here in Baton Rouge, and in that document they
35:46
Speaker 1: said that these children had burned to their feet and
35:50
Speaker 1: their genitals. And it really is, like you said, crazy
35:54
Speaker 1: because once we doug more into her background at the
35:58
Speaker 1: production meeting the next day after this news broke, we
36:01
Speaker 1: were all kind of sitting around going how did she
36:04
Speaker 1: get these kids back? Especially after you know, she was
36:07
Speaker 1: charged and arrested in a child abuse case. So it's
36:13
Speaker 1: just it is interesting how she was able to get
36:15
Speaker 1: these kids back and then moved into that beautiful home,
36:19
Speaker 1: four bedroom, three and a half bathroom, Yet these two
36:22
Speaker 1: kids are malnourished and just in very bad condition. You
36:26
Speaker 1: got a question for you, Nick Perlin. Where did the
36:30
Speaker 1: prior occur where she was charged with cruelty to children? Yeah,
36:34
Speaker 1: the children are given right back to her. That was.
36:37
Speaker 1: I believe that was in Baton Rouge as well, so
36:42
Speaker 1: she looked like she lived in Baton Rouge. There was
36:45
Speaker 1: issues with her child abuse history while she was here.
36:49
Speaker 1: Got the kid back? How is that happening? How is
36:52
Speaker 1: she getting the children back? Sarah Ford? Why does defects
36:57
Speaker 1: keep giving the children back to mommy? You know, it's
37:01
Speaker 1: become something where, you know, Child Protective Services wants to
37:04
Speaker 1: reunify families and from the outside that that seems like
37:08
Speaker 1: a good idea, but that's okay for some families, but
37:11
Speaker 1: certainly not for all. And in the cases of severe abuse,
37:15
Speaker 1: which is you know, child of being burned on their
37:18
Speaker 1: general horrible I mean horrible, horrible abuse. Now catch this,
37:22
Speaker 1: Sarah Ford. Hold that up again, Jackie, everybody, I want
37:25
Speaker 1: you to hear what some lame prosecutor gave mom the
37:30
Speaker 1: first time. And when you hear what she did the
37:31
Speaker 1: first time, you're gonna spin. She pled to a lesser
37:36
Speaker 1: offense and she was her sentence was parenting classes. Now
37:43
Speaker 1: I want you to hear exactly what she did. This
37:46
Speaker 1: is what Nick Carlin is telling us about taking listen
37:48
Speaker 1: our cut twenty three. Our friends at climb online duncan
37:51
Speaker 1: was accused of child abuse. Ten years ago in Louisiana,
37:54
Speaker 1: a five year old child was taken from school to
37:56
Speaker 1: a local hospital to be treated for burns to his feet,
37:59
Speaker 1: genital and other body parts. Doctors determined the injuries were
38:03
Speaker 1: likely the result of being burned by hot water. The
38:06
Speaker 1: boy also had bruises on his torso, back, hip, and buttocks.
38:10
Speaker 1: When police went to Duncan's home, they found a twenty
38:12
Speaker 1: month old child wrapped in clothing with his hands bound. Reportedly,
38:16
Speaker 1: the only other person in the home was a child's
38:19
Speaker 1: four year old brother. Duncan admitted to police that she
38:22
Speaker 1: routinely disciplined one child by making him get into a
38:25
Speaker 1: push up position for up to an hour, this causing
38:28
Speaker 1: the child's hands to swell. The child was also forced
38:31
Speaker 1: to sleep on the closet floor. The door of the
38:34
Speaker 1: closet would be blocked by boards to keep the child
38:36
Speaker 1: from escaping and stealing food from the kitchen. Two other
38:40
Speaker 1: children with signs of abuse who were removed from the home.
38:43
Speaker 1: Duncan was charged with cruelty to juveniles, but the children
38:46
Speaker 1: were ultimately returned to her. The children given by and
38:49
Speaker 1: it sounds like it was the same boy Jackie because
38:52
Speaker 1: at that time he was five. That was ten years ago.
38:55
Speaker 1: Now he've got a fifteen year old boy twin same ms. Frandi.
39:00
Speaker 1: She was pouring boiling water on his genitals and now
39:05
Speaker 1: she's pouring bleach on his genitals. Okay, I only have
39:09
Speaker 1: one thing to say, Baton Rouge. You let her go
39:13
Speaker 1: ten years ago, and I would like you to think
39:16
Speaker 1: tonight about the pain you've caused these children. Zakia Duncan,
39:21
Speaker 1: Jovah Terrell go to hell. Hopefully Baton Rouge prosecutors can
39:28
Speaker 1: do a better job this time than they did last time.
39:32
Speaker 1: And God bless these children. We wait as justice unfolds.
39:38
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace comes story, signing off goodbye to