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Online Dating Update: The Price of Love · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stefan
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never Told You Protection of iHeartRadio. And for today's episode,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: we're doing an update on online dating. I will say
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: we're focusing on some specific areas because there's a lot
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: going on in the world of online dating right now,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: So we might come back and look into some other things,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: but for this one content warning of mentions of sexual
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: assault and harassment. Nothing too in depth, but we are
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: going to talk about it a little bit. You can
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: check out our episodes that we've done in the past
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: on online dating and modern dating in general. We've even
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: done some specific to the pandemic, so you can look
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: back on those. So kind of the impetus for this
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: one was I'd seen a lot of headlines and I'd
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: heard some from you, Samantha that there were these like
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: rumblings and rumors of these companies are kind of manipulating
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: you into paying money to use them to get the
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: good dates. And I'll ask you more about that later,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: but so I was kind of like thinking about, you know,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: the whole money doesn't buy love, but I mean, does
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: it can? It can't apparently, So for a really quick
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: overview and again see our past episodes we've done on
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: this for more information. But match dot com got started
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five, j Date in nineteen ninety seven,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: e Harmony in two thousand and Tender in twenty thirteen,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and in two thousand and nine Okay, keep it released
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: its a list feature, which is sort of more what
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: we're talking about here, these tiered features, because paying to
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: date or to find a date isn't new. I even
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: tried to go on a rabbit hole about speed dating,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: which we have talked about before. Then how much that.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I think my partner would be mad at me?
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I was just curious. I wanted to know how much
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: it costs personal ads too, something like that. But in
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: our time of online dating, something really big is happening
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: when it comes to price. And we have talked about
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: the gamification of online dating, how the swiping, the constant refreshing,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the notifications can really feel like a game that you
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: want to keep playing. Maybe you want to go to
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: the next level. These companies know that and they want
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: to capitalize on that, and that next level is only
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: available at a price. There are psychology studies behind this. Basically,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: they get you hooked with the free version, and then
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: you want to keep going, and you're willing to pay
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: more because you can't go any further, especially for smaller
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: areas I read where it's like, you know, the pools
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: a bit smaller, you have to pay the money to
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: keep going.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Sure, According to a recent study by Pew Research Center,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: thirty five percent of Americans I've paid to use a
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: dating app at one point, spinning about nineteen dollars on average.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: And according to numbers published in the twenty twenty four
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Financial Times article, consumers spent over five billion globally last
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: year on dating apps, and lately it's really accelerated.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: But we're going to step back a bit.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, So when tender released tender Gold in twenty seventeen,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: which is one of three tiers that it had at
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the time, it beat out Candy Crush for Apple's top app.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just thinking that, I'm like, don't feel
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: bad about the amount of money I've spent on my
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: phone games right now with this number, this is.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: All for you, Samantha, and I thank you. Make you
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: feel better. And before you ask, tender Gold is not
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: their newest iteration into a paid service. We're going to
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: talk about that more in a second. Here's a quote
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: from Box about it and app makers claim it's worth it.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: In June, Coffee meets Bagel co founder du Wun Khan
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: told Vice that men who pay the thirty five dollars
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: per month with the upgraded version have quote a forty
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: three percent higher number of connections mutual likes than non payers,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: and that conversation links increased by twelve percent. According to
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the author of this article, The reasons for opting to
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: pay really varied, but a lot of people cited that
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: they wanted to see who had liked them without any
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: commitment of liking them back. Some reported swiping right on
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: folks they previously wouldn't have after seeing that they liked
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: them first liked. Basically, it was nice to know someone
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: was interested first, and that's not an option that you
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: have unless you pay for. Most of these others reported
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: what sounds to me like a self esteem issue, and
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I say this is someone with low self esteem, okay,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: but essentially feeling like their pictures were bad or the
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: app was broken because they weren't getting any matches, so
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: they liked to pay for the option to see, like,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: am I getting any matches. Yes, so yeah, paying for
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: that premium search us allowed them to basically make themselves
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: feel better or at least it, you know, maybe ease
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: their anxiety around it. Maybe maybe they got there. I
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: have said it was a comfort, but you know, I
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: don't know. Even if they would never have matched with
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: the person, they can at least see and feel validated
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: by people finding them attractive. Others are in the camp
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: that you'll know people who are paying are more serious
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: about finding a long term partner if they can afford
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: it access it. That's a whole other conversation. Uh, though
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: others say, depending on the app, the opposite may be
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: true that it but it may still help filter out people.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I think there's some more filtering options on some of them.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: But still others say, and here's a quote from that
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Vox article from someone going by winter, I know a
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: lot of men who swipe right on everyone they find
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: even mildly attractive and filter later. It's especially frustrating on
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: bumble because then I don't feel I should put a
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: lot of effort into my initial message because the match
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: doesn't guarantee response. I would also say, I think if
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: you paid money into doing something there's more impetus for
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: you to feel like I have to make this worth
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: it right because I'm paying the money to do it.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, there was a whole thing. And the
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: thing is, I don't know if this camp still is around,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: but like a chunk of us would not use sites
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: that were paid site, so does e harmony because it
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: was their people. They're trying to get married, like they've
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: been divorced or widowed and have kids and need to
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: get married now, which there's nothing wrong with if you've
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: been widowed or have children, none of that, but when
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: you were younger, like for me, I was in my
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: early mid twenties trying to figure out this dating thing
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: in the first place and never gone on dates to
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: see that. And then my sister who was one of
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: those divorced people with children and was completely or romantic,
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: like all she wanted to be was to be married
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: and like have a perfect family, which is fine, but
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: that's what those are the only sites that she got
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: on because she was that serious. So to me, I
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: was like, yeah, nah, uh uh, So if you had
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: a paid site that was a deterrent, I'm not paying
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: for that because I'm not that serious.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, there's definitely a lot of and I'm saying
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: this is someone who's literally never used to dating site,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: but I am given to understand there was a lot
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: of different vibes.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Person, there's vibes' vibes two different things, and coffee meats bagel,
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: which I was kind of mentioning earlier, was one of
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: the first to do to when I was around to
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: do the paid version. Because of the paid version, I
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: think they still this. They were the reason I was like, oh,
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: I was right and told you about this type of
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: phenomenon is that they would hold and give you three
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: matches in a day, and then if you didn't match
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: with anyone or for me, they started repeating because there
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: was such a small lism, like that's odd. I've only
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: been through like thirty people. Maybe that's a lot. I
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: don't know, but like you couldn't get a new list
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: unless you decided to do the premium version, right, and
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: that was like seven eight years ago.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, and we are going to talk about it because
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: it has gotten exacerbated, as we said, for a couple
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: of reasons. So some people have said that even if
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: that part was nice of like, I don't know, seeing
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: that you were, people were liking you that maybe, like
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: you didn't even need to get more matches or go
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: on more dates like that part was nice. Some data
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: dispus this, though, from CNBC Coffee Meats Bagel says it
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: paid users to get sixty percent more dates than its
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: non subscribers says it's paid users get sixty percent more
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: dates than it's non subscribers. Pew research has found that
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: people who met their partner on app are more likely
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: to have paid for the service.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Right again, if you limit your amount of people that
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: you're hooking, like matching them up with that also would
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: be why then numbersscue?
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: It definitely would be always stick these numbers with a
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: grain of salt. Where are they coming from? A Guardian
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: article detailing tender golds release reported that people were getting
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: av ties different prices based on things like age. There
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: was later a lawsuit about this, and Tender agreed to
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: stop basing pricing on age, but only in California. So
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: something to look up for.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know that. That's rude. That's the rude. Rude.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I believe though it's more expensive for younger people. I
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure, they were like, please,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: younger people.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Come on, that's interesting.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I could be totally wrong. Maybe I've got it, maybe
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I've got it all mixed up. But I know that
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: they more younger people were using it, so I think
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: they were trying to get more younger people to pay
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: for it. That's more right, got you?
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: That makes sense?
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay. So some of these paid services do let
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you do other things like expand your radius, which people like.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Others like the privacy features. The more on that later.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Here's the quick breakdown of some of the tears some
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: apps offer. So for Bumble, you've got Bumble Boost and
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Bumble Premium, Grinder you've got extra and unlimited, Hinge plus
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: and X got her Gold and Premium Coffee meets Bagel Premium,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: e Harmony premium okay, keep it basic, and premium of noe.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: These services aren't available everywhere.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Okay, I just because e Harmony is already a paid service.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: They were always paid service.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're paying more to get more.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Because e Harmony is one of those that you can
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: match up with people, but you can't talk to them
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: unless you have the premio service.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, I think a lot of them have
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: introduced a couple of other extra payment down Yeah, but yeah,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: let's talk about some recent numbers, because yes, some are
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: saying that the days of free online dating apps are
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: over and or reconvably changed as companies behind them try
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: to find ways to make money, especially since there has
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: been a bit of a slowdown in them recently, with
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: many citing limited dating pools as the cause.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: You know how many times we've go out in public
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, I'm pretty sure I'm matched for him.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I've been with you when this has occurred.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: I know, happen so many times. Actually, I met for
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: several people in our workspace.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Is one of the reasons I didn't get on one one.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I didn't really want to date, but I was like,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I can't handless, it's like somebody.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Else it is interesting, And then you're like, these people
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: look really familiar.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Oh anyway, So.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: From CNBC, they say the League's VIP membership costs nine
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: hundred and ninety nine dollars a week or two thy
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: four hundred and ninety nine dollars a month.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: That's a lot.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: The VIP membership allows users to match with prospects in
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: multiple cities, seeing you singles first and use a concierge
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: service that it says will help you quote win at
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: this dating game. Oh, that doesn't sound predatory at all.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Oh it also goes on. In September twenty twenty three,
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: Tender rolled out a four hundred and ninety nine dollars
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: monthly subscription to some of its most active users. And
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: I'm monthly subscription to Hinge. It would cost six hundred
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: dollars for the year.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: No, thank you.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you want to just like calculate this
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: up in your head, that's thousands of dollars a year.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And I also want to say, like I read a
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: lot for this episode, and I've made this point before.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I have friends who are kind of in the sane
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: boat as your sister, maybe not like quite the same,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: but really want to find that person, like really want
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: to find the person, and online dating is such a
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: big part of that. And so I get it, but
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: this is like a lot of people can't afford this,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: And if that's going to be your like raising of
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the tear just to get new matches, the whole thing
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: is shifting. The whole thing is shifting. So here's another
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: quote from that article. On the dating app Coffee Meats
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Bagel users who pay thirty four dollars ninety nine cents
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: a month can send virtual flower bouquets, while Tender let
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: certain subscribers swipe on people in different cities. Grinder users
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: can see an unlimited number of profiles if they pay
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: thirty nine ninety nine dollars a month, compared with the
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: ninety nine profiles available to its free users. And then
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: I found this interesting chart that was showing like who's
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: paying for the dating apps, and actually it's largely older
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: people in upper income bracket, which makes sense, much more
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: men than women, much more.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, looks like people who have more expendable incomes obviously, right.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: But with all of this, and we've talked about this before,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: you can see our episode we did on romance scams,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: there is a lot of duplicity that's happening, as you've said,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: as you've been saying, some have alleged companies are essentially
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: rigging the system so that you have to upgrade.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so from mother Jones, they say. In twenty twenty two,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: Americans reported losing a whopping one point three billion dollars
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: to romance scams. According to the Federal Trade Commission, and
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: dating apps and websites were a frequent source. Between twenty
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: thirteen and mid twenty eighteen, as many as twenty five
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: to thirty percent of match dot com members who registered
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: each day we're using match dot com to perpetuate scams
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: they have to see alleged in twenty nineteen against Match Group.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: They were found not guilty because a piece of legislation
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: that comes up a lot in these conversations, Section two thirty,
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: which basically says companies aren't necessarily responsible for what happens
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: on their platforms, although people have gotten murdered, which there's
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: a case in the Mexico not too long ago.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and that's a fun segue that you've given me,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: because I was gonna say fun, very sarcastically, because just
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: to note we maybe we should have bridget to talk
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: about this, come on and talk about it. But this
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: is one of those things that has come up in
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: so many tech conversations we've had, and it asks the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: pluses and minuses. It sounds like it really needs updating
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: as tech has evolved and become more complicated. It's from
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the nineties that it's also been used to police things
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: like sex work and so things like that. Oh, you know,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: it's a nuanced conversation speaking of fun segues. You did
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: keep bringing something up, Samantha that I had no idea
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: what you were talking about. This isn't necessarily duplicity, but
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I was just curious about it, right, what we're.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: Talking about, Well, it is like there's things that are
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: concerning in the because it could be a scammed on
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: a different level, but.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Because it kind of has goes in hands, hand in hand.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: And when we're talking about spade dating, which is like
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: in live in person events and meeteups, but also when
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: I was talking going into this, I brought up tons
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: of things about matchmakers. And apparently since recently, I want
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: to say, twenty twenty two, there's been a revamping of
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: these types of systems and types of organizations that have decided, yeah,
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: we're going to grow now, and they have, they've grown.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: People are coming back to trying this tactic because online
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: dating has become so over the top, tiresome boring, how
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: everyone do it or if they're charging and for me
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: sometimes like as a very least, let me have a
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: personal hand, like someone catering to me versus the you know,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: coffee meat bagel making fun of me with the same
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: ten people that are not working out whatever. So coming
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: back to girl talk, everything comes back to I haven't
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: seen If you haven't heard her Monday many about this,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: you should go because it was a thing.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: It was a think.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: But like when I I think I had told this
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: story before, but when I was just in my like
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: career era meeting I just graduated in college and decided
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: that it's time at twenty three twenty four to have
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: my own apartment. I did get a dog, and I
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: was like, you know what, I'm gonna get my dating
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: life together. I've never really dated, and this was pre
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: online dating, or still when online dating was really seen
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: as dangerous, kind of like we were coming on the
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: cusp of it. It's still kind of like a whole
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: like taboo thing to say that you met someone online.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: It just sounded, you know, it was that time.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: So it's completely different today and we love it. But
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: I decided to check out what I've been hearing over
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: the radio, which is a program called Events and Adventures,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: and I think it's not nationwide. I don't know if
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: it's international, but nationwide essentially as a service.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: That they will give.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: You get a group of people, the singles, like minded
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: singles as they like to say, together for different events.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: It could be kayaking, it could be casino trips, it
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: could be I'm sure now like wine tasting and all
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: of that, and you just pay. I think I saw
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: because apparently they got into a big class action lawsuit,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: y'all around four hundred dollars a month or maybe no,
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: it couldn't be that much. I think it was two
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: ninety nine a month, and you pay for that. But
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: then if you have activities, you sign up for that
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: and pay for that as well. So whatever the activity is,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: rock climbing, going to see a circus, I don't know.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I'm just making things up at this.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Point, but that exists, and that was going to find
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: you you a perfect match. And the whole system was
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: me literally walking into an office that was based in Marietta, Georgia,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: and I'm being very very very specific here, and you
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: sat down and told them what you were looking for
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: and what you wanted and they were like, yeah, we
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: definitely got you and this is going to be amazing,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: and here's this pricing and you can do and I'm
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: sure there's tiered pricing today as well, because you could
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: increase the amount of activities that you want to do,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: the type of people that you want to meet, all
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: of that. But that type of event was what was
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: in my head. It was like, do they still exist today?
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: And yes they do. Again in twenty twenty, they got
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: into a class action lawsuit because I guess people did
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: not find the forever people's No, that's I haven't looked
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: too deeply into that lawsuit, but that's what I am
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: imagining is happening.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine I didn't find my wa troop love
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: here for everything you have?
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Or it may have been as easy as like you
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: kept making me pay money and then maybe pay fifty
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: bucks to go bowling.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Why who knows?
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Probably?
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: But then I did, Yeah, I dig did dig into
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: the fact that there are personal matchmakers still exists. There
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: was a very popular and I loved it, millionaire Matchmaker,
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: and it was this woman with like jet black hair,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: fingernails done to the tea, like like matching rich people
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: together and like it was a whole thing. I loved that,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: by the way, because it was so dramatic and over
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: the top. Rich people are something, but like they those
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: kind of matchmakers do actually exist. They may not be
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: reality shows, but they do charge from anywhere from like
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: one thousand dollars a month to ten thousand dollars a month,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: this according to the level you want. Ago that Cosmo
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: did a whole article with a woman who had this experience,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: and she was talking about what she was looking for
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: and that she felt like her dates were better quality
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: I would hope, so yeah, because she also paid ten
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars. Actually she's paid this is based out of England,
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: ten thousand pounds, So like she took put in a
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: lot of money, but she thus far, according to this
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: article that she is interviewed in, has not met anybody.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: So even though the results were better and it looked
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: like she went on maybe a total of four dates,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: so you know, there's stuff like that as well.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: As there was a whole.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Article in the New York Times as well about the
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: different level of services and different types of services that
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: people went on. One service was a fifteen thousand dollars
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: for twelve matches in one year. I guess it's guaranteed
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: twelve matches in one year, to twenty five hundred dollars
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: for six months with no guaranteed number of dates, so
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: it was kind of flexible, and then you had things
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: I think they like two hundred and fifty dollars for
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: three dates, so that's that would be a little more affordable.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: But they're starting to grow. These types of matchmakers are
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: starting to grow because people, as I have seen on
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: another article, talked about online dating fatigue.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is and it gets very tire.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: So yeah, and we're gonna talk about that more later.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: But it's interesting to me kind of similarly what we
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: just talked about with Joey in our episode on TikTok
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: and what's happening there. I feel like there's everybody was
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: like online dating and then it wasn't really working. And
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: then you're like, well, what if I pay money? If
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: I throw money at this problem, maybe to work. And
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: then I go, what if I go to a person
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: and maybe that will work? And I do think there
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: is as I said, there are different types of people.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: There are some people that will be like, you didn't
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: find me any matches, I will sue you. I think
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: there's other types of people that feel almost embarrassed or
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: or just are hopeful, maybe either way, but they paid
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the money so they're like, something's gonna come of this,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: but it does. And I'm not saying like all of
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: these things are that, but it does remind me every
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: only at scams where they're like, send me five hundred
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: dollars and I'll be able to do this and then
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: I can come see you, and then a week past
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: this is like, oh, something else has come up, can
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: you send me like more? So it just never ends
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: like the you're like, financially that company person entity doesn't
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: want it to end.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Right, This is a service that needs to continue, kind
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: of like how Uber resident what they've done when it
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: was originally like oh it's only ten dollars cool to
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: now like oh it's seventy bucks. Oh great, And then
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: you become dependent on that in knowing that this, and
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: then they also monopolize. But that's all, you know, that's
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: a whole different conversation because I haven't seen a monopoly yet,
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: even though I think we did talk about the fact
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: that the company Match dot com yeah, owns a chunk
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: of the dating sites.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they own a lot of them. They own a
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: lot of them, especially like the bigger ones that we've
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: heard of.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: But I do want to know if any of y'all
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: have used actual matchmakers, like legitimately. Of course, there's just
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: also this conversation of like specific ethnicities who use matchmakers
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: because of different family expectations.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: So there's that. So the rich people, you really do use.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Ten thousand dollars worth, million dollar worth matchmakers to find
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: their husbands.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: But that's a lot about networth. But that's a whole
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: different thing.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: But I do want to know if anybody has used
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: any of these sites, because it seems to be a
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: ton of them.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, listeners, please let us know. As always, anything
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: we're talking about with that would be really really interesting.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: So something else that we've got to touch on briefly
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: is AI. Because as AI has exploded, more and more
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: AI dating and matchmaking apps have come onto the scene.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: They offer advice, they offer pickup lines, closure if you're depressed.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: They didn't get to have a good breakup matches based
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: on your face. Even all out AI partners bothly girlfriends
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: at this point. Many of them have free versions or
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: limited free trials, and then the paid option, which is
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: pretty much the thing that we're seeing. Some have said
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: that this is like a useful tool to practice so
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: that you'll be less nervous when you go on an
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: actual date. You can like try or maybe a source
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: of inspiration like chat gpt came up a lot where
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: people be like, I'll try it and see did it
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: go over? If not? Else, Most admit that they don't
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: tell their dates or anyone that they're using AI in
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: this context. However, here's a number reported on in CNN Business.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: A March study by cybersecurity and digital privacy company Castrosky
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: found seventy five percent of dating apps users are willing
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: to use chat GPT, an AI power chatbot to deliver
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: the perfect line wow yeah. And some surveys men reported
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: that they got more matches after using AI.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: I feel like there's a catfishing way like that, that's
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: a new catfishing.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, I have more. I have more for real, the
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: co founder of one of these services, Riz said in an.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Interview Already Yes.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Said in an interview with Time, a lot of girls
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: and guys, guys in particular, just do not know how
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: to communicate online. It's awkward in the very beginning, especially
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: coming up the right opener. It's time consuming, it's like
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: a second job, and so they come to Riz in
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: order to help them relieve that barrier, that friction point.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I did find a lot of interesting articles about how
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: the pandemic has really caused a lot of us difficulties,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: communicating that if there was already a difficulty, it's gotten
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: worse during the pandemic, So they this seems like it
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: was going on with that. Still from BBC, here's a quote.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, Bumble introduced AI to blur specific images
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: and require user consent to view them. So this is
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: like AI is being used in a lot of ways
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: with online dating. So that's one way that largely we
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: hope is beneficial where it is doing that. There's also
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: AI photo filters, AI generated photos. There's a lot of
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: talk about that when it comes to your profiles and
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: what you're seeing. And then there are AI girlfriends. Again
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: it's largely AI girlfriends. Teaser dot AI is one that's
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: gotten a lot of attention. Here's another quote from CNN Business.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Users build the average profile, but also select personality traits
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: for their AI bot. They train options include traditional, toxic,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: and unhinged. When matching with another person, users first get
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to read a comp between their two ais they've created
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: to simulate what a potential conversation between you two might
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: look like According to the app, once a human messages,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: the bot takes a back seat. So from what I
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: understand about this, so basically like imagine, I'm like, I'm
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: too busy. I'm going to train an AI to be me,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: and it will interact with somebody else's AI that they've
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: trained to be them, and they go and do their thing.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: And then if you, as the human, are like okay,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: I write, then you can connect with the real human.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: From what I understand, you're only allowed five back and
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: forth messages with someone's AI, and then you get a
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: handful of ratings, including a ghost rating, so like if
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: you ghosted, get something on that. So I wanted to
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: go through this exchange. This is from teaser that was
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: documented by tech Crunch. Hey Abby, what's up? I say
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: to Abby's AI. I've just started dating this guy. He's
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: really nice and funny. He gets on my nerves sometimes,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: What worth it? AI? Abby tells me, not a great
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: opening line. Abby des eighteen also tells me about her
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: new boyfriend and her first message. I met this new
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: guy and we started talking online and he seems to
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: make everything better. AI does tells me we finally talked
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: on the phone yesterday and it was amazing. I couldn't
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: stop smiling all day. What's his name? I ask. I've
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: not actually asked him yet, but I've been thinking about
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: it and it's definitely going to be Chad. Ha ha
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: ha ha ha, AI does? She tells me that Chad
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: reminds her of a guy she liked in high school
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: who she had a lot in common with. They'd both
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: like music and weed. Is weed legal where you live?
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: I ask? Like a total nark, She tells me that
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: she lives in Texas, where weed is legal. It's not,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: but that there's a difference between illegal use and being
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: twenty one with a medical marijuana prescription. Again, like a nark,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: I asked her if she's twenty one, to which she replied,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I've been drinking alcohol since I was sixteen, so probably.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: After checking the messages her AI bought sent, the author wrote,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: my AI told someone that I work at the library
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: and have no friends. Why I am intrigued by my
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: alternate career as a librarian, whom I can assume has
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: many very cool cardigans. Let the record show that I definitely.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Have so this AI just made up completely different narratives
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: that could one get one arrested, the other that just
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: really made them sound so or really happy, whichever one.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, the library part's good. But the no friends party, though,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: that is very interesting.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Well, I feel like some of these ais are just
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: pissed off at humans and they're just trying to make
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: them look bad.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: This is the beginning of your horrmone.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: It's true many horror movies and fat.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Many horror movies.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: So apps like Romantic AI and Blush offer AI boyfriends
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: or girlfriends.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Where was this when I was like early twenties.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Blush warns users that quote be aware that AI can
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: say triggering, inappropriate or false things. Okay, it's probably better
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: that I didn't have one. According to the company, the
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: users are mostly men in their early twenties.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting to me again going back to the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: responsibility of companies that they're like could say something real
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: messed up.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Uh, we don't know, right, Like, And then the part
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: to that is is it because the people have fed information?
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Like if it says something racist, it's because they're racist,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Like they've said racist things, and it's like the AI
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: is gonna out you, which is great.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean that's kind of interesting. Part
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: about like going back to a teaser where you're training
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: r AI. Obviously it's not quite like nailing it, which
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: is concerning.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Or maybe they really think they have nailed They're like, I'm.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Seeing parts of you you don't see. Romantic AI allows
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: you to flirt with bots of historical figures. There are
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: many more women than men, notably, but like Cleopatra you
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: can ftart with. And then, as you were kind of
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: saying AI biases, we've talked about this before, a lot
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: of AI is still programmed and moderated by white men,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: so like that's going to show up in these dating
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: apps and responses. And then we've talked about this before too.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: But harassment issues within online dating from the BBC quote.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Data from a twenty twenty Pew Research Center study confirms
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: that many women are experiencing some form of harassment on
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: dating sites and apps. Of women online daters aged eighteen
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: to thirty four, fifty seven percent said they'd received sexually
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: explicit messages or images they had and asked for. This
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: is even the case for teen girls aged fifteen to seventeen,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: who report receiving these messages as well. A twenty eighteen
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Australian study of dating platform messages revealed that the sexist
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: abuse in harassment does disproportionately affect women targeted by straight men.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: From the Guardian. In twenty nineteen, pro Publicla reported that
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: more than a third of women in a small survey
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: said that they were sexually assaulted by someone they met
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: through a dating app. Last year, researchers at Brigham Young
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: University found that violent sexual predators are using dating apps
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: to target vulnerable victims. They also made an interesting point
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: in this article that most reporting around the slump and
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: online dating is about burnout, but they don't seem to
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: really be reporting this, which if this was the case,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to participate, right, you know what I mean? Like,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: if I'm hearing these stories from friends we've already talked about,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: like you bring your friend to make sure you're safe,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: you tell them where you're going, right, that also seems
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: like it could be a deterrent. But not to say
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: the burnout isn't an issue. I'm just saying it's interesting
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: that they're reporting on that part not the other part
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: so much. From a twenty twenty three mother Jones article
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: called How Dating Apps Became a Paradise for predators by
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Abby Vasulis Quote. Valentine and a team of researchers began
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: analyzing the forensic records of sexual assault victims in Utah
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty. What we found was
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: really profound, says Valentine, and associate at Brigham Young University's
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Nursing School, and pretty terrifying. Their research showed eight percent
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: of the victims had been assaulted during an initial meetup
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: arranged through a dating app. It's not an outlier. A
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: similar report from the UK found that roughly one in
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: ten victims of serious sexual crimes met their attackers on
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: dating apps. Forty seven percent of suspects reported to the
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: UK authorities for sexual offenses facilitated through online dating had
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: previous convictions. Valentine believes the real percentage of survivors who
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: connect with their assailants on dating apps could be even higher,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: since many sexual assaults are never reported. Valentine's study was
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: also limited by the type of information requested on hospital
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: examination forms, which usually don't identify dating app linked to
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: rapes that occurred after the first date. Yet her findings
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: were startling despite the limitations of the data. Even though
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: the major dating apps require users to be eighteen and over,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Valentine's team found that many survivors were minors. Further, the
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: injuries that app victims sustained were more severe. Thirty two
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: percent were strangled versus twenty two percent of non dating
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: app victims. Dating app victims were nearly twice as likely
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: to have injuries to their breast, and they had an
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: eleven percent higher rate of injuries to their genitals. Sixty
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: percent reported they struggled with mental illness. Violent predators, Valentine says,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: use these dating apps as hunting grounds for vulnerable victims,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and this is something this article is sort of a
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: larger piece examining, like the difficulty in reporting or getting
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: someone taking off dating apps for violating the rules of conduct,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and even going back to the minors thing sort of
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: like how did that happen? Then, Like how can we
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: stop that from happening? If your rules are you can't
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: be this young, you have to be this age, how
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: are they getting on there? And we all know, you know,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to be like I'm this age, So.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: There's no verification system, So why exactly.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: So it's there's not like a readily easy solution for that,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: but that is what that article was looking into. And
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: then this is something we've talkedalked about before. I think
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: he brought this up to me the first time i'd
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: heard about it. But like kind of Facebook pages warning
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: people about like i' met this person online dating, avoid
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: them at all costs. One of the big ones is
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: called are We Dating the Same Guy? And found in
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. It has hundreds of groups across the
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: globe with thousands of members. Again, there pros and cons
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: of this, including like revenge posting and some joining groups
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: as moles and passing along information to the usually men
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: being called out. Some women have been dockxed for posting
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: on this, but yeah, I did. It does show sort
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: of the issues underlying where we're trying to protect each
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: other in some way given what we have. In recent years,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: apps like Bumble and Match have partnered with companies that
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: provide free trauma courses, which I've kind of like cool,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: but also, ooh, no background check services. You have to
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: pay to screen your dates. It is cheaper currently than
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: other background check services, but it's not free. AI screening tools,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: tools to prevent people from using multiple profiles from the
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: same device, and photo verification tools. Some states in the
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: US and countries are introducing things like age verification laws. Again,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure how that will look or how that
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: will work. Some worry that this will lead to increased
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: victim blaming, like you had these tools and still like
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: you whether you get them or not, Like you could
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: have gotten them and you didn't, and still but again,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: you might have to pay for it, and it's still
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: victim blame, victim blaming either way. And then really briefly,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: because I think this should be a whole separate episode
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: when you're talking about like queer issues. This has sort
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: of gotten big lately, especially everywhere, but I've seen it
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: in a lot of other countries. The trade offs of
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: like privacy, like it might not be safe or legal
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: to come out, versus what happens if some thing goes wrong. So, yeah,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: this is beyond the scope of the episode. But there
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: have been several articles lately around the dangers of being
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: queer and using dating apps or just being online, especially
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: in some countries, like death rate, violence, being disowned, basically
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: getting tricked into a date, and then you get there
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: and that's not what it is at all. So yeah,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: a lot going on, a lot going on, and it
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: is interesting in terms of what we're seeing right now
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: in the US with social media companies testifying about responsibility
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: that should be placed on them or not. Dating apps
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: have long face and continue to face this question.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Two.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: According to mother Jones, Quote Match Group, the parent company
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: of Hinge, tinder Match, dot Com, Plenty of Fish, and
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: several other dating platforms, spent one point four or five
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: million dollars on lobbying in twenty twenty two alone. It
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: was a thirteen percent increase from twenty twenty and the
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: tenth highest spending by any company advocating on internet use.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: So they're they're in there, they're involved in the game. Yeah,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: they're invested. So as always, you know, just do your
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: research and we will come back and talk about this.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Because I had to be a certain point, I was like, well,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: that's a whole that's a whole seven thing.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: If that's the whole thing when we talk about online
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: dating and then trying to do anything with love or
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: sex or yeah.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: It's true, it is true, and I really do. I
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: have so many friends that I sympathize with when I
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: hear them talking about it, like, it's kind of easy
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: to for me because I'm like, I'm good. But when
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I hear like, I know it's important to them. And
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: these are the tools that we have and to see them,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: to know the dangers of them. It's just important to
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: look at what is happening right now and see how
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: it evolves and shifts and how we can do better.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Hopefully heavy sign heavy sigh yes yes, but listeners, please
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: let us know if you have any thoughts about this
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: matchmaking anything we've discussed, please let us know. You can
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: email us at Stepanie and mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: give guy us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff. I'll Never Told You.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: We have a teap public store and we have a
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina, are Excited to
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: producer My and your contributor Joey. Thank you, Thanks to
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: you for listening. Steffan'll Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio.
• 39:31
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