Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 3-year-old Maddie McCann murder suspect linked to multiple missing children.

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3-year-old Maddie McCann murder suspect linked to multiple missing children. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: Will it never end for the family of three year
0:12
Speaker 1: old Mattie McCann, the beautiful little girl who was snatched
0:18
Speaker 1: from her own bed while on vacation with her parents.
0:22
Speaker 1: Can you imagine being away from on vacation, away from
0:25
Speaker 1: your home and your familiar surroundings, lulled into a false
0:31
Speaker 1: sense of complacency, and your baby goes missing. You'll hardly
0:37
Speaker 1: even know where you are, where to look, who to call,
0:41
Speaker 1: what to do. That is exactly what happened to the
0:44
Speaker 1: parents of three year old Mattie, and to this day
0:48
Speaker 1: no answers. But is there finally a break in the case?
1:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? Is there finally a break
1:11
Speaker 1: in the case? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
1:15
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
1:17
Speaker 1: at serious XM one eleven. First of all, take a
1:21
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Sky News. A three year
1:24
Speaker 1: old British girl has gone missing in the our garve
1:26
Speaker 1: in Portugal. Course we can speak out to Dan Mason,
1:29
Speaker 1: who's a journalist who works in that area. Dan, thanks
1:31
Speaker 1: for joining us on Sky New Sunrise this morning. What
1:33
Speaker 1: are the details that you've gleaned so far? Hello? Yeah, all,
1:38
Speaker 1: I basically know is that the child was obviously thaying
1:41
Speaker 1: a Mark Warner establishment and was reported missing around him
1:46
Speaker 1: last night. She's three years old, assister the name of
1:51
Speaker 1: Madeline or Maddie fair Hair, and the most of the
1:58
Speaker 1: people in the area. We're through to about four o'clock
2:01
Speaker 1: in the morning yesterday and obviously through hedges and down
2:06
Speaker 1: the Duc to Avail and I've just been down this
2:10
Speaker 1: morning to the club again to see if for anymore
2:13
Speaker 1: news in the situation is basically the same as the
2:16
Speaker 1: days pass. The situation stays the same. There's been a
2:21
Speaker 1: lot of finger pointing. Everybody says that's somebody else's fault.
2:24
Speaker 1: But bottom line, I believe investigators there at the holiday
2:30
Speaker 1: resort dropped the ball. But is there a break in
2:34
Speaker 1: the case. Finally, you know, her parents must be worn
2:38
Speaker 1: down to a nub, just raw after all this time
2:44
Speaker 1: looking for their little girl. Mattie McCann joining me an
2:47
Speaker 1: all star panel to break it down and put it
2:48
Speaker 1: back together again, or now attorneys joining me out of
2:51
Speaker 1: New York. This morning, Jay said Oceans Forensic Psychiatrists. You
2:55
Speaker 1: can find him on insta at doctor Daniel bober Chloye
2:59
Speaker 1: Tiger thirty six your Seattle PD twenty two of that
3:02
Speaker 1: homicide and author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary gene Grant.
3:07
Speaker 1: He's at Chloyd Steger dot com. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
3:12
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
3:17
Speaker 1: but straight out to Dave Mack Crime online dot Com
3:20
Speaker 1: investigative reporter Dave Mack. Who is this German dude that
3:28
Speaker 1: is now suspect number one? Who is he? Let's just
3:31
Speaker 1: start with that. His name is Christian Bruckner. He's forty
3:34
Speaker 1: three years old, as you mentioned, from Germany, who traveled
3:37
Speaker 1: back and forth between Germany, Portugal and Italy. Pause pause,
3:41
Speaker 1: Just tell me one thing. Is he connected in any
3:45
Speaker 1: way to a statward child pornography? Yes, ma'am, he is.
3:49
Speaker 1: It's really all I need to know right there? Do
3:51
Speaker 1: I need to know anything else? Let me guess white
3:54
Speaker 1: male loner listen to somebody's attic apartment something like that.
4:01
Speaker 1: Am I even close to Dave matt Am? I just
4:03
Speaker 1: a little close, bueh. And all this time this perv
4:10
Speaker 1: has been right under the nose of police, the noses
4:16
Speaker 1: of police. To tell me some more about this guy.
4:19
Speaker 1: Just we know he's connected for sure to child porn.
4:23
Speaker 1: Does he have Dave matt crime online dot com? Does
4:26
Speaker 1: he have a criminal history. He's got a long criminal
4:29
Speaker 1: history that includes robbery's burglaries, and he has been convicted
4:35
Speaker 1: of sexual abuse of a child way back in nineteen
4:38
Speaker 1: ninety four. Personal right, right? You know, Dave matt you
4:43
Speaker 1: know how I feel about you. You know, I respect you,
4:47
Speaker 1: care about you. You're on our team. But why in
4:51
Speaker 1: the hey do you bury the lead? The guy has
4:54
Speaker 1: child porn and he's got an abuse on a child
4:56
Speaker 1: conviction headline. What else do we know about him? Dave Matt? Well,
5:01
Speaker 1: you're correct, And the reason I pointed out the robbery's
5:04
Speaker 1: burglaries and tourist thing is because that's how he slipped
5:09
Speaker 1: under in the cracks in this investigation beginning with the
5:12
Speaker 1: Portugal authority. You know you just said something about tourist.
5:15
Speaker 1: What about tourist? What does that fit into his criminal history? Nancy?
5:19
Speaker 1: He was actually known to burglarize the apartments and hotel
5:25
Speaker 1: rooms of tourists in this particular place in Portugal where
5:29
Speaker 1: Mattie McCann went missing. Now I get your reasoning, Dave,
5:33
Speaker 1: mac hold on, Jackie's waving a note at me that
5:36
Speaker 1: says our ape Dave mac Why is she waving that
5:41
Speaker 1: at me? Because he planned the rate of a seventy
5:49
Speaker 1: two year old American woman living in Portugal in two
5:51
Speaker 1: thousand and five. He was It's just the most disgusting thing.
5:57
Speaker 1: But it was right near the very place where Maddie
6:00
Speaker 1: McCanne went missing. This is two years she Jackie's telling
6:04
Speaker 1: me two rapes. You've got the seventy two year old woman.
6:08
Speaker 1: Did he or did he not rape the seventy two
6:11
Speaker 1: year old woman? Yes, he raped the seventy two year
6:13
Speaker 1: old farms, so he didn't just plant as you just said,
6:16
Speaker 1: he raped her. Is there another rape in his criminal history?
6:19
Speaker 1: In his first conviction of sexual assault rate in nineteen
6:23
Speaker 1: ninety four? Is that on the child boy or girl boy?
6:27
Speaker 1: And there's another tourist, I mean, Joe's got Morgan, Cloyd Steiger,
6:32
Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober, Jason Oceans. This guy should have been
6:35
Speaker 1: locked up under the jail, but all the signs are
6:40
Speaker 1: there's Cloyd Steiger twenty two years in homicide. Here's a
6:46
Speaker 1: guy that has been breaking in to tourists hotel rooms.
6:52
Speaker 1: Jackie did I ever tell you that happened to me?
6:54
Speaker 1: One time? David and I went to Florida and we
6:59
Speaker 1: had been on the beach. He went somewhere and I
7:03
Speaker 1: was in a shower in the hotel room. I thought
7:05
Speaker 1: I heard a door, but then I listened. I didn't
7:08
Speaker 1: hear anything. When I got out of the shower, my pocketbook,
7:11
Speaker 1: everything in my pocketbook was gone. And people have an
7:18
Speaker 1: m O an m O. Would you agree with that?
7:21
Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger? This guy had an MO. He raped a
7:26
Speaker 1: seventy two year old woman in that tourist area, and
7:30
Speaker 1: as MO modus operendi. Method of operation was that he
7:33
Speaker 1: would break into hotel rooms while tourists were out of
7:37
Speaker 1: their hotel room. And that night Cloyd Steiger Mattie mckenn's parents,
7:43
Speaker 1: we're having dinner about I think it was Dave McK
7:47
Speaker 1: if anybody knows, correct me on the distance, about a
7:50
Speaker 1: hundred yards away at an outdoor table, and they would
7:55
Speaker 1: go back and check on the children asleep in the
7:57
Speaker 1: rooms every twenty minutes. So they were out of their room.
8:01
Speaker 1: Who's that, Dave? Is that you? They were about one
8:03
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty feet away, and as you said, they
8:05
Speaker 1: all took terms checking on the kid one hundred and
8:07
Speaker 1: eighty feet away. That's much closer. Okay, so Chloy Steiger,
8:12
Speaker 1: m that's what this guy is known for, plus a
8:16
Speaker 1: pedophilic rate on a child. He's the perfect candidate. Yeah,
8:21
Speaker 1: he is. You know, My understanding is they didn't know
8:23
Speaker 1: he was a sex offender, which is no excuse because
8:25
Speaker 1: anybody that limits themselves to known sex offenders and these
8:29
Speaker 1: types of things shouldn't be doing this job because it's
8:32
Speaker 1: not always somebody who has a previous conviction. So yeah,
8:35
Speaker 1: they completely ignored this guy. I have no idea why.
8:38
Speaker 1: I read something where the lead investigator was really zeroed
8:41
Speaker 1: in on a parents. And that's what a bad investiators
8:45
Speaker 1: when he decides what the answer is and only looks
8:47
Speaker 1: for evidence to support his thesis instead of just being
8:52
Speaker 1: open to where the evidence takes him. Well, you know what,
8:54
Speaker 1: I don't even understand at all how you don't look
8:58
Speaker 1: for people that have committed sex crime or burglaries crime
9:14
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, guys, we are talking about a
9:17
Speaker 1: major break in the case of beautiful three year old
9:22
Speaker 1: Mattie McCann, who is kidnapped from her parents hotel room
9:27
Speaker 1: while they're on vacation. She was asleep. Someone came into
9:31
Speaker 1: the hotel room and took Mattie, leaving her siblings undisturbed. Guys,
9:36
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our friends
9:38
Speaker 1: at Inside Edition. A German convict is now a suspect
9:43
Speaker 1: in the two thousand and seven disappearance of Madeline McCann,
9:46
Speaker 1: the British child who went missing from a resort in
9:49
Speaker 1: Portugal when she was just three years old. Forty three
9:53
Speaker 1: year old Christian Bruckner is currently incarcerated in his home
9:57
Speaker 1: country on unrelated crimes. BBC reports authorities have been investigating
10:02
Speaker 1: him since twenty seventeen after a friend of his came
10:06
Speaker 1: forward to report he made disturbing comments about McCann while
10:10
Speaker 1: in a bar watching coverage of the tenth anniversary of
10:13
Speaker 1: her disappearance. German police reportedly said Bruckner lived in the
10:19
Speaker 1: region of Portugal where Madeline was last seen. The child
10:22
Speaker 1: disappeared from the hotel her family was staying in during
10:25
Speaker 1: the vacation. Disturbing comments he made in a bar watching
10:32
Speaker 1: the Mattie McCann coverage. When Mattie first goes get missing
10:36
Speaker 1: back to you, Dave Mack joining me from crime online
10:39
Speaker 1: dot Com. I understand that this freak and I'm saying
10:44
Speaker 1: that because he's connected to child pornography and apparently he
10:50
Speaker 1: moved to this area after serving part of a two
10:53
Speaker 1: year sentence for molesting a six year old girl in Wurzburg.
10:58
Speaker 1: At the time they went missing, he was living in
11:02
Speaker 1: an area about a ten minute drive away. So the
11:07
Speaker 1: child molestations are piling up. He lives ten minutes away
11:10
Speaker 1: and he burglarizes hotel rooms. I'm very stunned the cops
11:15
Speaker 1: didn't see him, and I understand Dave mac that Brittner
11:19
Speaker 1: had been a person of interest at the jet Go
11:23
Speaker 1: but then he was eliminated. Why well, and I need
11:26
Speaker 1: to correct something earlier. I said that his first conviction
11:29
Speaker 1: was a nine year old boy. It was a girl, Nancy,
11:31
Speaker 1: and I apologize onto this still a child go ahead
11:35
Speaker 1: him with this. He was eliminated as a suspect because
11:38
Speaker 1: they were specifically looking for sexual preditors for those convicted
11:44
Speaker 1: of sexual harassment, abuse and rate. He at that time,
11:49
Speaker 1: Portugal only had him listed as a foreign thief as
11:53
Speaker 1: a robber. They didn't have Christian Brutner on their list
11:57
Speaker 1: as a sexual preditor, even though why they just didn't
12:02
Speaker 1: and you know goes back we said, the Portugal authorities
12:04
Speaker 1: dropped the ball from the beginning. They did bad part
12:07
Speaker 1: is they passed bad information along to others so that
12:11
Speaker 1: they he was eliminated as a suspect in the early
12:13
Speaker 1: days of this investigation when he should have been the
12:16
Speaker 1: primary suspect. You know, no offense to all our friends overseas,
12:21
Speaker 1: but to you, Jessice Scott Morgan, Professor, forensic teath investigator.
12:26
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Pink Panther the movie, not the
12:30
Speaker 1: actual Panther or the comic Panther that's pink. Yeah. Do
12:35
Speaker 1: you know how? Yeah, you know how the police are
12:41
Speaker 1: portrayed as bumbling idgets in these in particularly that country.
12:49
Speaker 1: But when you hear stories like this, they did not
12:54
Speaker 1: have him on their list of sex offenders. Look, I mean,
13:00
Speaker 1: I know cops are overloaded. I get it. I've been
13:03
Speaker 1: there as a prosecutor, but how could you not have
13:07
Speaker 1: this guy on your list? He was just convicted of
13:11
Speaker 1: raping a little girl. Yeah, it's tragic because this could
13:15
Speaker 1: have been interdicted far in advance, you know, before it
13:18
Speaker 1: every good have Tragic's the right word because tragic to me,
13:21
Speaker 1: seems like it was an tragic incident or tragic accident.
13:26
Speaker 1: This is no accident. This is flied out incompetence for
13:30
Speaker 1: them not to have a child sex predator on their list. Yeah,
13:34
Speaker 1: and therefore he was eliminating you're talking about. One of
13:37
Speaker 1: the things that complicates this is you have the sovereignty
13:40
Speaker 1: of these individual nations. It's not like going from you know, Alabama, Georgia,
13:44
Speaker 1: from New York to you know, I know, Vermont, New
13:47
Speaker 1: Hampshire or whatever. It's a it's a major pain. And
13:51
Speaker 1: you know, they do have what's referred to as Interpole,
13:54
Speaker 1: but I've worked with Interpole before Nancy on missing persons cases,
13:58
Speaker 1: and it is just kind of this lucy goosey, kind
14:02
Speaker 1: of soft in the middle kind of things clearinghouse without
14:06
Speaker 1: any real Yeah, they don't, they don't. They they don't
14:10
Speaker 1: have And you know, when we begin to think now
14:12
Speaker 1: about things like databases and all this thing, and you know,
14:15
Speaker 1: moving forward, you know, it's become more solid relative to
14:19
Speaker 1: things like DNA databases. The problem with someone like this,
14:25
Speaker 1: for uh, you know, they're from a behavior standpoint, is
14:29
Speaker 1: the fact that they will collect things. And I think
14:33
Speaker 1: that this guy, He's in multiple locations. If you had
14:37
Speaker 1: that information from that, from those bits of evidence like DNA,
14:42
Speaker 1: you may have been able to kind of connect the
14:45
Speaker 1: dots more effectively, if you had a database that you
14:49
Speaker 1: could go to that Interpol would set up. Now they
14:51
Speaker 1: might have that now, but back during this period of
14:53
Speaker 1: time they didn't, and it's it turned out to be
14:56
Speaker 1: a total dumpster fire. And here's the problem. Not only
15:00
Speaker 1: are we talking about Maddie Nancy, this guy is moving
15:03
Speaker 1: between all of these different countries. How many other children
15:07
Speaker 1: are there well keeping up with it. Jason Ocean is
15:10
Speaker 1: joining me, renowned defense attorney and the Tri State area
15:13
Speaker 1: joining me today from New York, Jason Oceans. The reality
15:17
Speaker 1: is he is connected to many different young children, and
15:22
Speaker 1: they all, whether they're boys or girls, look very similar physically,
15:27
Speaker 1: and they all are similar in many ways to Mattie
15:31
Speaker 1: McCann's appearance. Jason. Even here in the States where we
15:35
Speaker 1: have aphists, where we have you've got a fingerprint data bay,
15:39
Speaker 1: you've got DNA data bank, you've got a gun data bank,
15:45
Speaker 1: they don't have all that in Portugal and the surrounding areas.
15:49
Speaker 1: But we know this, we know is mo we know
15:52
Speaker 1: where he travels. But even so, how is it that
15:58
Speaker 1: he's slipped between juris dictional limits. How'd that happen? Initially
16:05
Speaker 1: bad policing right, not taking the time to really circle
16:10
Speaker 1: around beyond the parents, without the reason to think that
16:14
Speaker 1: they would just come here to Portugal to dispose of
16:18
Speaker 1: their three year old daughter. Nothing in the background that
16:21
Speaker 1: I saw then, nor now after all these years, indicated
16:25
Speaker 1: that they were responsible. It reminded me of the Eton
16:27
Speaker 1: Pats case in New York where six year old went missing,
16:30
Speaker 1: and again it turned right away to the parents, and
16:34
Speaker 1: yet it was right under the noses at the corner bodega.
16:38
Speaker 1: So sometimes drawing the line in the inference right away
16:42
Speaker 1: precludes you from thinking outside that circle, or even perhaps
16:47
Speaker 1: did he have an assistant letting him know, you know,
16:50
Speaker 1: where these hotel rooms were unguarded, or you know, better
16:54
Speaker 1: targets to go. So I just think from the onset
16:59
Speaker 1: this investigation, she was doomed. You know, you kind of
17:02
Speaker 1: sound like you're blaming police, and I agree that they
17:06
Speaker 1: were inept and really screwed up the case. But the
17:10
Speaker 1: police are not the ones that took Mattie out of
17:13
Speaker 1: her room and raped her and killed her. And at
17:15
Speaker 1: this juncture, we've been told several different things. We've been
17:19
Speaker 1: told the police have told Maddie McCann's parents in a
17:24
Speaker 1: letter which I think is kind of cold, that she's dead.
17:28
Speaker 1: The parents are saying, we have received no such letter
17:32
Speaker 1: to doctor Daniel Bober forensic psychiatrists. You can find them
17:36
Speaker 1: on instat a doctor Daniel Bober. How hard is this
17:40
Speaker 1: for the parents, what they've been through? Oh, you know, Nancy,
17:44
Speaker 1: it's every parent's worst nightmare. It's absolutely devastating. And there's
17:48
Speaker 1: really nothing that you're gonna say or do that's gonna
17:50
Speaker 1: make that pain go away. And it's going to be
17:52
Speaker 1: a pain that's gonna last for life. Absolutely crime stories
18:09
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a beautiful
18:14
Speaker 1: little three year old girl who goes on vacation with
18:17
Speaker 1: her parents. I remember it like it was yesterday, and
18:23
Speaker 1: they put her down to sleep with their brothers and
18:26
Speaker 1: sisters or siblings. She's never seen alive again. Now a
18:31
Speaker 1: lot of people have blamed the parents, and yes, they
18:36
Speaker 1: were out of the hotel room having dinner. Am I
18:41
Speaker 1: happy about that? No? But they are not responsible for
18:46
Speaker 1: her kidnap. They're not involved for years, they endured suggestions
18:52
Speaker 1: that they were they've never given up trying to find
18:56
Speaker 1: Mattie McCann, their little girl. Take a listen to our
19:01
Speaker 1: friends at CBC. We know that he's a forty three
19:04
Speaker 1: year old German Man. He is white. Now because of
19:07
Speaker 1: Germans privacy laws, we don't know his identity, but what
19:10
Speaker 1: police have said is that he has a history of
19:12
Speaker 1: sexual violence, including against children, and that he's actually in
19:16
Speaker 1: prison right now convicted of a sex crime. We also
19:20
Speaker 1: know that he was living in the area where Madeline
19:22
Speaker 1: disappeared at the time of our disappearance, and you can met.
19:25
Speaker 1: Police have actually released some photos of vehicles that he
19:29
Speaker 1: had driven at that time thirteen years ago. So again
19:33
Speaker 1: we don't know his identity of police. I've simply said
19:36
Speaker 1: that he has a history of not just sexual violence actually,
19:39
Speaker 1: but of break ins of burglaries. He was known to
19:42
Speaker 1: go going to people's homes and steal their things and
19:45
Speaker 1: of course of violence. So this is a huge, huge breakthrough.
19:50
Speaker 1: We know his name now, it's Christian Bruckner, with a
19:53
Speaker 1: long rap sheet including sex abuse on little children, very
19:59
Speaker 1: similar physic to Maddie McCann, and breaking into the exact
20:04
Speaker 1: resort into hotel rooms where Maddie McCann was kidnapped. Also
20:08
Speaker 1: the rape of a seventy two year old woman near
20:12
Speaker 1: that resort. That's what we know about him. How police
20:15
Speaker 1: let him slip through their fingers, I do not know.
20:19
Speaker 1: But right now take a listen to Mark Cranwell. This
20:23
Speaker 1: is the Maddie McCann investigator. He's white, he's about six
20:28
Speaker 1: foot in height. He's forty three now. At the time
20:32
Speaker 1: he was thirty, but he could have looked somewhere between
20:35
Speaker 1: twenty five and thirty two. We know the identity of
20:39
Speaker 1: this mail. We nominated him as a suspect for the
20:43
Speaker 1: inquiry and the investigation team. This is a significant development
20:47
Speaker 1: we are we've been working on this line of inquiry
20:52
Speaker 1: for a couple of years. He had access to two vehicles.
20:57
Speaker 1: What's about the two vehicles. The first one is a
20:59
Speaker 1: camper van. It's a VWT three Westphalia model. It's an
21:04
Speaker 1: early eighties model and the color tone it's quite distinctive.
21:10
Speaker 1: It was quite old and probably described as a bit
21:12
Speaker 1: beaten up, but it was an white upper body and
21:15
Speaker 1: a yellow sort of lower body. We know that that
21:19
Speaker 1: vehicle was in the area certainly the day's leading up
21:22
Speaker 1: to it and the week afterwards to Jason Oceans attorney
21:27
Speaker 1: joining us out of New York in New Jersey, Jason,
21:31
Speaker 1: you and I covered the Danielle Van Damn kidnap, rape
21:34
Speaker 1: and murder case from California. She was taken by the
21:38
Speaker 1: neighbor David. I believe it was Westerfield. But long story short,
21:46
Speaker 1: he kidnapped and held her in a camper van. And
21:51
Speaker 1: we see over and over and over that a camper
21:56
Speaker 1: or a van is used in kidnap, rape and murder
22:01
Speaker 1: of children. That's quite the coincidence, is it not that
22:08
Speaker 1: he used a camper van at the time she goes missing?
22:12
Speaker 1: What about it? Jason? Otions remember that case daniel van
22:15
Speaker 1: dam I do. I do, And it's a spot spot
22:18
Speaker 1: on on that because that serves as the as part
22:22
Speaker 1: of the EMO of the sexual assault or rape of
22:27
Speaker 1: the of the victim. And so again I did not
22:32
Speaker 1: mean to blame police, per se. I am a fan
22:36
Speaker 1: of good. Somebody's doing cleanup now, yes, ma'am. But I
22:42
Speaker 1: would say that a stute prosecutor that you are, that
22:45
Speaker 1: that develops in those are all the hearts of the peace,
22:49
Speaker 1: and you immediately looked at that, Jason. I think part
22:55
Speaker 1: of it is you've got a home on wheels. Because
22:57
Speaker 1: they don't have to take the child back to their
23:00
Speaker 1: home or apartment. They don't risk being seen by a
23:04
Speaker 1: landlady or a neighbor, or a roommate or a wife.
23:07
Speaker 1: And they have room to move around to assault and
23:12
Speaker 1: kill the child. And not only that, in a camper
23:15
Speaker 1: or a van, they can secrete the child to the
23:19
Speaker 1: back and nobody can see the child. It's not like
23:21
Speaker 1: the child in the front of the back seat. So
23:25
Speaker 1: they can hide the child and move around. That's exactly
23:28
Speaker 1: get away with the child. They don't have to rape
23:31
Speaker 1: and murder the child at the scene. They've got wheels,
23:35
Speaker 1: they're mobile. I think that's why campers and vans are
23:40
Speaker 1: favorites of child molesters. Jason, Oceans, jump and help me
23:44
Speaker 1: out here. No, you're you are spot on, And that
23:49
Speaker 1: is exactly the reason. It is a facilitating vehicle. Unlike
23:53
Speaker 1: a car. It serves all of those purposes. And that's
23:59
Speaker 1: again and good policing looking through that, you know, matching
24:04
Speaker 1: good detective work is no no better than right there
24:09
Speaker 1: at the spot and circling those things. Fancy that's it.
24:12
Speaker 1: I wasn't solved early on. And uh, I'm going to
24:16
Speaker 1: circle back to the next vehicle. But we know to
24:20
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, Dave Mac, because there's so
24:22
Speaker 1: many facts coming up fast and furious. New footage has
24:26
Speaker 1: been captured inside Christian Brutner's layer, where police also discovered
24:32
Speaker 1: a camper van containing a series of swimming outfits like
24:38
Speaker 1: swimsuits that they be they believe belonged to young girls.
24:45
Speaker 1: Is that correct, Dave Mac? Yes, man, they found a
24:47
Speaker 1: bunch of children's swimwear. I mean, think about it, guys, Uh,
24:53
Speaker 1: help me out to you. Kloyd Steiger, say a woman
24:58
Speaker 1: goes and drives her husband's car one day for whatever reason,
25:01
Speaker 1: and she finds a bunch of little girl swimsuits in
25:04
Speaker 1: there that have been used. Isn't that a red veil
25:08
Speaker 1: of alarm? Yeah? Sure is. You know I had a
25:10
Speaker 1: case very similar with collection underwear like this and years ago,
25:14
Speaker 1: and that's you know you should have sent off your
25:16
Speaker 1: alarm a lot and one thing I want to Okay,
25:19
Speaker 1: I can't understand you. Did you say you had a
25:21
Speaker 1: case where somebody collected underwear? Yeah? What we suspected it
25:24
Speaker 1: was a murder involved with a child that the person
25:28
Speaker 1: died and we never found enough to charge. But I
25:32
Speaker 1: want to think back to something doctor Bober said about
25:35
Speaker 1: the parents' reaction, and he's exactly right. There's nothing worse
25:37
Speaker 1: than a child than to lose a child, although but
25:40
Speaker 1: there is one thing to have a child that disappears
25:43
Speaker 1: that nobody knows what happened. I've looked into the dead
25:46
Speaker 1: eyes of mothers of long term missing and that is
25:50
Speaker 1: a cool, cool thing path to live through horrible and
25:54
Speaker 1: it goes. It's gone on and on and on. First
25:57
Speaker 1: of all, everybody blamed the parents. Did they they kill
26:00
Speaker 1: their own child? It's their fault, everyone said, because they
26:03
Speaker 1: were having dinner and left the children alone, even though
26:05
Speaker 1: they checked on them every twenty minutes. It went on
26:08
Speaker 1: and on. They were crucified in the media. But I mean,
26:12
Speaker 1: the reality is so often wrong or right, jess Got Morgan.
26:17
Speaker 1: When a child goes missing or is dead, very often
26:20
Speaker 1: it is the parents. So the media was wrong. But
26:26
Speaker 1: I understand why the media focused on them, do you yeah,
26:28
Speaker 1: I do you know? And because it many times it
26:32
Speaker 1: leads back. I think back to Susan Smith, you know,
26:34
Speaker 1: of course, and you know what she had done. You
26:39
Speaker 1: begin to and from a policy from yeah top momus,
26:44
Speaker 1: you began to think about just from an investigative standpoint,
26:48
Speaker 1: relative to these cases, it's going to be the intimates.
26:52
Speaker 1: It's going to be those individuals that have the biggest
26:55
Speaker 1: I don't know how to frame it relative to the
26:58
Speaker 1: most hatred towards towards a person to want to destroy
27:01
Speaker 1: the most connectivity for whatever reason, they're around them more,
27:04
Speaker 1: they've got more opportunity. You know. We were talking and
27:09
Speaker 1: so what happened to the McCanns was horrible. The family
27:13
Speaker 1: being blamed the parents, but the reality is a vast
27:16
Speaker 1: majority of the time the parents are involved. That does
27:19
Speaker 1: not lessen the pain that was caused to the McCanns. However,
27:23
Speaker 1: statistics don't matter because that's not what happened in this case.
27:39
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the
27:43
Speaker 1: Big break and three year old Mattie McCann's disappearance. Family
27:47
Speaker 1: on vacation. The mom and dad go to dinner about
27:50
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty feet not yards, one hundred and
27:52
Speaker 1: eighty feet away with some other friends that were there.
27:58
Speaker 1: They go back. One of them goes back and forth
28:01
Speaker 1: every twenty minutes to check on the shoulder to make
28:03
Speaker 1: sure they're okay. On the last check, Mattie's gone. At
28:06
Speaker 1: first they couldn't believe it. They tore apart the hotel
28:10
Speaker 1: room apart looking for her. She's gone in the twenty
28:14
Speaker 1: minutes since they last checked. They have endured so much
28:20
Speaker 1: hatred and accusations since Mattie went missing. But now a
28:25
Speaker 1: major break in the case. A guy that should have
28:28
Speaker 1: been picked up on day one, Christian Bruckner, with a
28:33
Speaker 1: rap sheet including sex molestation on a child, raping a
28:37
Speaker 1: seventy two two year old woman in the same area
28:40
Speaker 1: as the resort where the Mechans were staying, and burglary
28:44
Speaker 1: breaking into hotel rooms. Now we mentioned the van that
28:49
Speaker 1: this guy had, Christian Bruckner, he would have been thirty
28:51
Speaker 1: at the time Maddie went missing, but he had a
28:53
Speaker 1: second vehicle. Take a listen again to the Mattie McCann
28:57
Speaker 1: investigators speaking to the Sun News Mark Cranwell, So this
29:02
Speaker 1: is a Jaguar who's been described as dark in color.
29:05
Speaker 1: It's an x j R six. He was registered in
29:11
Speaker 1: ninety three, and we want to know does anybody remember
29:15
Speaker 1: that vehicle. It's not particularly uncommon, not particularly unique. But
29:20
Speaker 1: somebody will have remembered a Jaguar car in that area.
29:23
Speaker 1: Did you see a German male using that car? Can
29:27
Speaker 1: you remember that the car? Can you remember where he
29:29
Speaker 1: saw it? Most intriguing is he reregistered the car on
29:35
Speaker 1: May the fourth, This is a day after Madeline went missing.
29:40
Speaker 1: He asked a friend to register the car in his
29:42
Speaker 1: friend's name. We've established that our suspect, the man that
29:47
Speaker 1: we have identified, used a telephone in that region at
29:51
Speaker 1: that time. Particularly, that phone was used at seven thirty
29:55
Speaker 1: two pm and the phone call was finished at eight
30:00
Speaker 1: o two pm. He made he received a phone call
30:03
Speaker 1: for thirty minutes, and we know that that phone was
30:06
Speaker 1: in the area of PDL. Well, that's all well and
30:08
Speaker 1: good now, but now you're asking people if they remember
30:12
Speaker 1: a Jaguar how many years ago? Ah? Yeah, there they're
30:17
Speaker 1: a day later. Dollars short. That's all I can say
30:19
Speaker 1: about their police. Now take a listen to what we
30:22
Speaker 1: learned about a forensics search on Christian Brutner's camper. Listen.
30:29
Speaker 1: This is Skyne's forensic examination of the suspect's campa van
30:33
Speaker 1: is thought to have found no trace of Madeline's DNA
30:36
Speaker 1: and none in his Jaguar car, which was also seized.
30:40
Speaker 1: We hope that some British tourists can help us to
30:44
Speaker 1: find the murder of Medlin mckenns. Like the Scotland Yard colleagues,
30:49
Speaker 1: German prosecutors have received hundreds of calls after last week's
30:53
Speaker 1: appeals for help. Vigandup and do you think the suspect
30:58
Speaker 1: has committed more crimes, possibly against British people and Irish
31:02
Speaker 1: and Americans. We think there are more victims of sexual crimes.
31:06
Speaker 1: The suspect is in jail in Germany. He too is
31:10
Speaker 1: awaiting developments in the case. Detectives haven't yet questioned him
31:14
Speaker 1: about Madeline. Now, I'm so burned up about this. All
31:19
Speaker 1: those time is passing there now asking to ours what
31:22
Speaker 1: they remember. They still haven't questioned the guy. What is
31:26
Speaker 1: wrong with them? Yeah? I want to go out to you,
31:31
Speaker 1: Dave mac We just heard the investigator talking about a
31:35
Speaker 1: phone call that took place around seven thirty pm. And
31:39
Speaker 1: what's so significant? He said, in the area. But it
31:41
Speaker 1: was not just in the area. It was near the
31:45
Speaker 1: McCann hotel apartment room, wasn't it, Yes, man, it was
31:50
Speaker 1: right their mere feet away. From where Madeleine mccam was sleeping.
31:54
Speaker 1: Another thing, Dave mac has me very concerned. There are
31:57
Speaker 1: reports that a hotel staff member tipped Bruttner off. What
32:02
Speaker 1: do you know about that? Well, police knew because Bruttner
32:06
Speaker 1: had already had been robbing this particular resort over time.
32:10
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he was convicted of robbing
32:11
Speaker 1: that place before and spend time in jail overrid So
32:14
Speaker 1: when police found out that he had this thirty minute
32:17
Speaker 1: long phone conversation, they tried to figure out who it
32:20
Speaker 1: came from. So they ended up running an ad and
32:22
Speaker 1: putting it out in the public saying who has this number?
32:25
Speaker 1: And it came back to an employee at the resort.
32:28
Speaker 1: That's how they tied it together from Bruckner getting a
32:32
Speaker 1: call from a resort employee essentially tipping him off as
32:36
Speaker 1: to which apartments were unlocked. So let me understand. You
32:41
Speaker 1: were telling me that police tracked the phone number that
32:44
Speaker 1: called Brutner that night that Maddie goes missing. The phone
32:50
Speaker 1: call was at seven thirty two pm the night she
32:52
Speaker 1: goes missing. It lasted thirty minutes until eight o two.
32:57
Speaker 1: The call was made by a tell worker. We now
33:02
Speaker 1: believe who told Brutner the apartment would be unlocked. Police
33:08
Speaker 1: release that phone number to the public in order to
33:11
Speaker 1: identify the person to whom it belonged. Brutner got tips
33:16
Speaker 1: on unlocked apartments so he could steal from tourists. So
33:22
Speaker 1: let me understand this to you, doctor Daniel Bober. The
33:30
Speaker 1: fact that somebody within the hotel is involved should have
33:35
Speaker 1: made this and open a shut case. That person should
33:39
Speaker 1: have come forward and stated, I know somebody was robbing
33:43
Speaker 1: apartments that night Maddie goes missing. Why didn't they? The
33:48
Speaker 1: good question, Nancy doesn't really make any sense. I mean,
33:50
Speaker 1: the more you hear about this case, it seems like
33:52
Speaker 1: there's a roadmap to this guy. So it's baffling. You know,
33:56
Speaker 1: very often I have said, I don't know if you
33:58
Speaker 1: agree with this or not. As Scott Morgan that burglars
34:02
Speaker 1: and peeping tom's are and sex offenders are the three
34:07
Speaker 1: criminals that have to repeat offend. They can't stop themselves.
34:13
Speaker 1: There's something about burglar burglars. They get a thrill out
34:18
Speaker 1: of going in somebody else's place and looking around and
34:21
Speaker 1: taking things. It's very voyeuristic, as is peeping tom as
34:26
Speaker 1: is sex offenses. In certain ways. What do you make
34:28
Speaker 1: of that? Yeah, there's not too many degrees of separation
34:31
Speaker 1: between the three, and it is secretive. You know, people
34:35
Speaker 1: get burglary and robbery confused all the time. Burglary is
34:38
Speaker 1: something where you enter a dwelling and there's no one there.
34:42
Speaker 1: You don't expect to go in and like force someone
34:45
Speaker 1: to give you money. You go in and you steal.
34:47
Speaker 1: You get into intimate spaces where people exist, and you're
34:51
Speaker 1: going to take jewelry. It's a perfect cover for somebody
34:54
Speaker 1: that is a sexual predator. Though they can go in
34:57
Speaker 1: and you know they might steal a few things relative
35:00
Speaker 1: to valuables to sell them somewhere else. But when you
35:04
Speaker 1: can get access to god, I hate to say this,
35:06
Speaker 1: to the dirty laundry for instance, in a home, and
35:09
Speaker 1: you can live out these fantasies, particularly in people's bedrooms
35:12
Speaker 1: or bathrooms and all this sort of stuff, it's a
35:15
Speaker 1: perfect recipe for something horrible to occur. And that's what's happened.
35:20
Speaker 1: Back to this attendant, this is very scary to me
35:24
Speaker 1: and very disturbing because he's got other people involved in this.
35:27
Speaker 1: I doubt, like with most of these people, people think, well,
35:30
Speaker 1: this is the first time he's done this. That's a
35:32
Speaker 1: load of crap. No, it's not. I suspect that there
35:35
Speaker 1: are probably other people that helped him facilitate these so
35:38
Speaker 1: called burglaries all over Europe, and there's probably a network
35:43
Speaker 1: of these people that knew that he was into burglary
35:47
Speaker 1: and they were getting a kickback for it. And so
35:49
Speaker 1: now you've got dead children that are involved in this
35:53
Speaker 1: and I hate to say that she's dead, but that's
35:55
Speaker 1: just my opinion. And there's people whose lives have been destroyed.
35:59
Speaker 1: So it is very, very disturbing. Guys, we are hearing
36:03
Speaker 1: that there is a disagreement between the German police and
36:07
Speaker 1: the British police. Take a listen now to host David
36:14
Speaker 1: Karts with Mike Neville, former police inspector. Listen, British investigators
36:19
Speaker 1: are still trading. This is a missing person's case. What
36:23
Speaker 1: sort of evidence do you think German prosecutors have and
36:27
Speaker 1: why mightn't they share their alleged proof. Well, it's certainly
36:32
Speaker 1: not fingerprints or DNA, because they're saying that doesn't exist.
36:35
Speaker 1: So when they say there is no forensics, do they
36:38
Speaker 1: mean there's no digital forensics, which could be computers or
36:41
Speaker 1: for photographic evidence or is it simply a confession as
36:45
Speaker 1: he told a friend or a police officer. He's done it,
36:49
Speaker 1: as it's been recorded. But I think one of the
36:51
Speaker 1: key things in this case is this phrase concrete evidence.
36:54
Speaker 1: I spoke to my German friend who's a senior detective,
36:58
Speaker 1: and I think it's been lost in translation. In German
37:01
Speaker 1: it's sort of been reasonable grown suspects, rather than as
37:05
Speaker 1: an English would mean the definitely absolute proof. I think
37:09
Speaker 1: he's been lost in translation. So to you, Dave, mat
37:12
Speaker 1: German prosecutors claim there's evidence indicating Maddie is dead, but
37:17
Speaker 1: the Brits disagree. Explain well, bottom line is you said it.
37:22
Speaker 1: The German officials say they have concrete evidence, but then
37:25
Speaker 1: they actually updated their comment a few days ago saying, actually,
37:30
Speaker 1: we don't really have any evidence. We just believe this
37:33
Speaker 1: is the case. Meanwhile, the British authorities from Scotland ard
37:37
Speaker 1: Operation Grains, which was put together to look into this case,
37:40
Speaker 1: are still considering it a missing person's gate for right now,
37:44
Speaker 1: Christian and Bruckner are behind bars on another offense, but
37:48
Speaker 1: is set to be released. He has not even been
37:50
Speaker 1: questioned about Maddie McCann as of Yet we wait as
37:54
Speaker 1: justice and false Nancy grace Cum story of