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Submission That Makes The Gospel Beautiful · Heart Religion

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to Heart Religion, a conversation with the leadership of Redeemer Bible Church, where our desire is simply to help all people know, love, follow Jesus more by faith.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm back here with Pastor Josh, and we finished an episode last time kind of understanding like convictions, faith, heart.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: And we kind of got into Titus, which is where we're preaching right now, and uh why we're in Titus, and particularly how Titus II connects to the rest of the book.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so if you missed the last episode, go back check it out.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because we're gonna kind of we're gonna build on that episode for today.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and really we want to jump into Titus II.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it is a wonderful chapter.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's really unpacking like the how-to's, if you will, of working out the life of faith.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so Josh, just kind of get us kind of what's Titus II doing and just briefly get us back in the groove of Titus II.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: As we said last time, Titus II really presses us into the specifics of how the gospel is worked out in everyday life, in the specifics of older men, younger men, older women, younger women, you know, and and as we're gonna see, it's very countercultural.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, I think, by God's design to really press us into how the word distinguishes, like in our different stages and and the places that God has put us, what it looks like to live out faith.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so as he presses in, there's there's some commonalities.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, the word sensible or self-controlled or sober-minded, depending on how that's translated, that's a that's a thread that runs through here about all of us being convictional, right?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: All of us living out the life of faith, all of us not be just driven by our emotions.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's the commonality of that purpose of adorning the gospel, of showing the beauty of the gospel in the way we live.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: But there's also some differences in the play, the spheres that God has us in.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: The differences between men and women that that have been designed by God.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, the way it is lived out looks a little bit different because of the different roles that God has ordained.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: So we talked about last episode that we've boiled down the main argument of Titus to be something like submitting to healthy teaching adorns the gospel of good works.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that S word, submission, is nobody's favorite.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, you know, I've joked before, like, I don't see people tattooing that on their arm, right?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's a hard word, honestly, for all of us.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and yet biblically, we are all people under submission, like to the Lord, to different relationships in this life.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: And Titus II really presses into that like kind of nerve of submission.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: So could before we even like unpack the specifics of Titus II, let's talk about submission.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just kind of give some biblical framework definition for this idea of submission.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, submission has to do with the idea of authority, right?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So ultimately, submission is putting yourself under someone else's authority.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Which we all hate.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: In the flesh.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're all naturally self-willed.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we what we say to our kids from the time that they're little, we all just want to be our own king.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it goes back to the garden.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: It goes back to, like you said, like, God's not my king.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to trust him.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go my own way.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think for us as Christians, I think the idea of submitting to God hopefully isn't controversial, right?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like clearly God is the authority.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't accepted that, you're not a believer.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: But the real challenge comes in well, wait a minute, what about other authorities that aren't God?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because other authorities that aren't God aren't perfectly just.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: They aren't perfectly righteous.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: They aren't perfectly good.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're not perfectly trustworthy, right?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where, you know, biblically we see though, that even though it's that's the case, right?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: There is injustice, there is brokenness, that there are various authorities and systems, you could call them, that are set up by God, were given by God, like government being one of them.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: And the call to submit to government was not because the government was uniquely just in that time.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Often to Nero and to these wicked Roman emperors.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And yet ultimately, as we see in Titus, our submission is because of our fear of the Lord, because of our love of the Lord, because of our trust of Him.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not because, you know, I submit to the government or I submit to whatever sphere I'm called to submit to, my boss at work, right?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're so great, but because of God.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it really gets into, I think, going back to the purpose of Titus II, we're meant with our lives to display the beauty of the gospel.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And really, if you you think about the gospel at the heart of it, of course, is Jesus and his example of selfless, sacrificial, laying down his life, suffering injustice, but not, I mean, he he's God.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: He had the right and the power and the authority to call down 10,000 angels, to defeat his enemies.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And yet ultimately it wasn't about that.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, his goal was to, is for his sacrificial and selfless love, his grace to transform the world.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think this is this is what we need to really keep in mind when we're thinking about submission, is this the the goal is to display the beauty of not fighting for ourselves, the beauty of love.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And really coming back to the example of Jesus, what does it mean to love our enemies?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And do good to those who hurt us.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's just all over the Bible.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm thinking about David being anointed king.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, he knows it.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: But Saul hates him.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: And he's running from Saul functionally for what 20 years?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: And he's even being in counsel to kill Saul.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: But he won't, because he knows that Saul's God's king.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: So even though Saul's wicked, David really does submit to Saul.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: He runs from him.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: He uh he at one point, right, is like, I could have killed you, chose not to.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: And even at the end of the life, when there's a servant, right, that kills Saul, he doesn't respond well.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, you killed God's man, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like, man, so even there's this a very practical example of of functional submission.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: Not because Saul was a righteous king.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: It was David knew, hey, God's going to take care of Saul.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's not my business.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: My job is to submit to God's king.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: Even when he is unjust.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think that's where it's so hard because in the flesh, we just are like, I want to, I'll submit if if you're worthy of it.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: But that's really not submission.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's just more like, I like you.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I agree with you.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: I had this crazy experience back in my younger years where I was I was as an intern, I was serving with some uh uh underneath some elders at a church.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and you know, in my youthful brilliance, they didn't like all of my ideas, which is amazing, right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, why didn't they like my ideas?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: They were great.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that was my thinking.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was kind of bucking against their authority.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I had this like this silly epiphany moment as I was studying like Hebrews 13 of submitting to your elders.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it hit me that it's only really submission.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: I only have to really submit when I disagree.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it I know that sounds silly, but I was like, oh, it's not really submission until it's tested with disagreement.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Up until that point, I could say I'm submitting, but I'm just agreeing.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's mutual.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: But then there's this moment where the Lord's testing me.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, will I submit to these elder pastors in my life?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't want to in the flesh.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh, they're wrong, blah, blah, blah, you know.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that the Lord was like, no, no, no, submission is you don't agree.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: You might even think they're wrong, but submit unto the Lord.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I think for the first time in my life, maybe I began to wrestle with like submissions by faith.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's an or it's an act of faith.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: Not because I I agree with so much as I think this is what God requires of me in the moment.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: And actually the outcome was my heart got to a better place.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: I was no longer grumbling against these men.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: I even reconciled with some of them.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it was really just my heart changing, right?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: And actually coming to grips with biblical submission was good for me and is good for me.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I think it is like it's, it is, it's challenging because in the flesh, we want to submit when we think it's worthy or deemed necessary or or valuable for us or agreeing with us.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I think, I think it would probably be helpful to our listeners as well.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously when we when this topic comes up, we we our minds immediately go to like the most extreme situations, right?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, I think it's important to recognize ultimately our submission is to God.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's our highest priority.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so ultimately there are times in which unjust rulers will tell us, you know, that well, those will be in direct conflict, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and that happened to the apostles in Acts 5, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: The the their authorities are like, stop preaching the gospel.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what did they say?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, we we have to obey God rather than men.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there are times.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think people inherently will wonder, like, well, does submission mean that when there's an unjust authority, we just kind of go along with whatever they want and and and really kind of participate in that sense with promoting evil?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we would say, of course not, right?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like that there is a place for um not submitting because we're submitting to God.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there's there's examples of that in scripture.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: However, with that said, while there are times to, I would say in in any relationship of submission to choose to submit to God.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And certainly unjust leaders make it hard, right?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because then you're constantly put in this place of like, even as a husband, a wife under an unjust husband, you're sometimes put in a position of like, am I gonna do what God wants or what my husband wants?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Am I gonna do what's best for my kids or what you know?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's that's why, of course, we want godly biblical leadership.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what can happen as well is because we know that there is just we're all unjust.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And because we know that there is no perfect leadership, it's really easy to fall into a mindset of always fighting against leadership, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're not perfect.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we really, I think the heart of submission, yes, there are times for resisting, you know.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even just like with slavery, right?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll get into that, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, where you're not just uh promoting and agreeing with it.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's times for like standing up for what's right and not and even the Bible undermines the institution of slavery.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the the goal of scripture is really that the love and the sacrifice and the truth, right?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: That the change happens through the gospel and not through force.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: That that that force cannot be changed.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we think of first Peter, right?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Where even a wife winning her husband without a word, yeah, right.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so I think this is the tension that we really got to wrestle with.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: That what do you do when there's like our goal is to love our enemies and for the power of the gospel to change them?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's times that even you know, opposing Hitler or we could get into Dietrich Bonhoeffer, you know, there's times for that, but I think just naturally our hearts just want to go there and fight for our own way.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And yet the gospel's pressing us towards submitting because really the goal is for truth and grace and love to transform.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're always fighting, right?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: That it's it's a you're trying to change through force, and force isn't the gospel, force doesn't, you can't forcibly.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's kind of Islam, right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like through conquest and you know, you're trying to spread through force as opposed to Christianity is through heart transformation.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think we have to do, we have to be honest with the cultures that we're in.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: We're so amped up on rights juice, my personal rights in our culture.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: That we and then we're so suspect of authority because authority is oppressive.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's our culture that we're in.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: So our moment, we have these two pieces of culture, right?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: The rights language and oppressor-oppress language.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Authorities are oppressive, right?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: And they infringe on my rights.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then we we're shaped in that culture and we open our Bibles and we see we're all under, we're all people under us authority, under submission.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: And our flesh just is like, whoop, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: We're like, oh no.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And we try to, we really try to weasel out.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'm like, yeah, you know, when it comes to submitting to government, yeah, the Lord doesn't really address the righteousness of Romans, of the Roman government at all.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's not the point.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: The point is how you glorify God in that society.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: God's not getting into your fundamental rights given to you by the Constitution.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that's maybe a good conversation for another day.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's getting into how do you come under an authority even when it is unjust?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: And how do you relate to God?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so it really goes back to kind of our last podcast episode, right, with convictions by faith.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I think we just need to sit in this word of this with this word, a concept of submission.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because it really is counter to the flesh.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: For all of us.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: Men, women, slaves, which we now would call employers, employees.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's we we just buck against submission, but really it's the heart of God.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we see it in Jesus, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: He's joyfully submitting to the Father.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: We see Christ then sending the Spirit, the Spirit submitting to the Son.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: They're all God, but they function in submitted relationships.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then we we learn from that because we see submission as inferiority, uh, being over somebody, having greater value or worth.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: But that's not how the Bible treats it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like, no, no, we're all we all have author uh uh relationships that are submission relationships, right?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Ultimately to the Lord, as you've said so well.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: But then even human to human.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then we operate by faith.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because because the Bible says all authority has been instituted by God.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so once again, it doesn't mean we never try to make things better at times, but really that that attitude of just like always fighting against authority, it's not gonna produce the kind of love and gentleness and and just the the life of Christ loving our enemies that really we want to see just the gospel take root, the gospel spread.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And man, that's that's the beauty of Christianity.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: So let's get into the specifics of Titus 2.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think this idea of submitting, right, is is really, we're all under God's submission.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: So he's gonna do old men, young men, old women, young women, uh, then slaves.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think we get to old men and young men, right, which is a great framework for discipleship in the house of God, like this generational mature Christians discipling younger, immature Christians, right, in the faith.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but really it's it's we're it's men under submission.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: We're under submission to God.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and there's some really, you know, great words here, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: Sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and steadfastness, right?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, jumping down to just this model of good works and uh sound speech and all these things, self-controlled again.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, let's just talk maybe a little bit about Josh, how you see this idea of being submitted to the Lord, producing this sober-minded, self-controlled flavor with amongst men.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: And how that's so counterintuitive to the flesh in the world.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so counter-cultural, isn't it?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we just think about what are men kind of known for, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it could be like the hobbies, it could be the proud, the pride, just like the gamer, the big man.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and we just see biblically, man, this the standing up and taking responsibility, this caring for others, laying down your lives to serve others.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Man, it's it's so countercultural.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: It maybe not in the, you know, I think maybe our culture knows that that that's I mean, you know, there's the stereotype of like the kid, the guy growing up in his mom's basement playing video games, and everyone kind of knows that's not healthy, but it's so common, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just think that the Bible is really pressing towards this like, what is actually good?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right, what is actually valuable, what is healthy, right?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And how does that live out?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really calling for us as men to be strong.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we preached a sermon on that where we really pressed into the men, like be strong, don't be, you know, weak and just given over to your flesh and your desires.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, we know just the the idols of comfort, of laziness, and uh, you know, it's it's just so easy for all of us to slip into these things, and yet the gospel presses us into this this godly leadership.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'd almost even flip the script too.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you mentioned kind of the uh the stereotypical, you know, mid-20s, living in your parents' basement, video gaming.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: We could say, oh yeah, that's a version of of of um of laziness or not being self or being out of control.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: But what if you flip the script to actually like what's culturally respected?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like you you you're you're powerful.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're as you as you grow up as a man, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: You gain power and status.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: You have money and affluence.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: You have the cars to prove it, and you've moved into the the other side of the tracks and the home to prove it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you think of what's happening in our world today, how many powerful men are being associated with just honestly wickedness.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: But they get away with it.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of the machismo, like you're you've arrived.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you want the whole world to know you've arrived, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: So even the old men being challenged to be sober-minded and dignified and self-controlled.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: We actually would say old men who are flamboyant and living in the lap of luxury and retiring wealthy and showing it off to the world, right?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: We're like, ooh, yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: They've arrived.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that's actually ungodly.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, for sure.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's what the flesh wants, craves, desires, respects.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: But this is the exact opposite.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think of old men, and I'm like, an old man who is sober-minded, right?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: He's just not consumed with the the stuff and the lust and the desires of this world.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: He's not and controlled by those things, but uh controlled walking by the spirit.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think of like that he was self-controlled and and it, yeah, he may have the ability in his old age to have all the cool hobbies.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: But he doesn't need them because Christ is his satisfaction.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then to your point, like kind of Christ upside down kingdom stuff that he knows he doesn't live to be served, but to serve.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's so counter to the flesh.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think once again, going back to what we talked about lap last episode, that's so compelling.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: When we see men who lay down their lives to serve their families, we see, you know, men who serve their communities, their churches, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we, you know, we could look at like the the war movie of like, man, the the who's the hero, even in any good movie, right?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not the guy that's just living for himself.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely the guy who's who's strong and is because of that strength that comes from the Lord, this supernatural gospel power, right?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: That yeah, that is like, okay, I have enough in Christ.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I am not, I'm not tossed to and fro by my desires and my lusts and my, you know.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think even scripturally, we could see how men who are kind of plagued with their sin, they're just weak and they don't have the strength to see.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Even respectable sins.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: But I think of our culture today, a man who's a workaholic, he's respected.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: He's powerful.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: A man who's a good athlete.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, he can throw a ball, he can catch a ball.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, he's respected.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: A man who can get women.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, he's a looker.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: He's attractive.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, all these things where we'd actually go, none of that is here.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's actually all the ungodly things.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: And a man under submission to the Lord is living a life that is supernaturally empowered.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: That it's like, no, no, I don't want to be, I don't want the I don't want to be seen uh successful based on the worldly standards as an old man or a young man, right?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: But I want to actually be conforming to Christ, right?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then therefore, yeah, we're under submission to Christ.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: And our lives are so radically different.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then to your point, yeah, it is compelling.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's like John Piper's uh great little sermon, or maybe it was a little uh uh chapter in Don't Waste Your Life.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: And he talked about like, you know, the the foolishness of retiring and collecting seashells.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: And the world would say, Yeah, way to go, you earned it, you deserved it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: That should be your goal.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: You spent 30 years collecting seashells.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: And his right, you're gonna stand before the God of heaven and say, look at my seashells.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's out of control.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's driven by your own passions, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: But this man who is under authority and then disciples other men to be men under authority is actually teaching them to live lives consistent with the gospel.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, under submission, totally countercultural.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: And frankly, maybe even looked down upon.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why do you drive that crappy car when you could drive a better one?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, why do you live in that house?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Why do you you know all of that comes into play, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Not that those things are right or wrong.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: You could drive nice cars and live in nice houses, but if If that's where your worth and value is being found, right?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: You've drifted from the gospel.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe not adorning it with good works.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: So now we're going to get into maybe one that I think strikes us more countercultural.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: So we've talked about submission, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: As we're all under submission.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but then these older women, younger women, uh narrative pops up in the text, and these these older women are encouraged to disciple younger women in several key ways.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then one that rubs us the wrong way, if we're honest, is when he just is when the text says um the the urge or encourage uh these young women um to be submissive to their own husbands.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: So let's unpack that without offending people, Josh.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh do our uh well, hopefully the word of God may is maybe be offensive, but hopefully we're not.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: So let's try.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how do we understand that encouragement for young women to be submissive to their own husbands?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the way you started with submission of the fact that we we gotta just start there, that it's not a greater or lesser.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that Jesus submitted to the Father.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: He's no less, you know, he's God.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, he's fully God, he's infinitely valuable.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so we start there.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like women are not in any way lesser than men, even though the Bible calls to these different roles.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: No lesser in intellect, right, uh, in in in dignity, worth, value, exactly.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: All like leadership capabilities.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're like, nope, it's not about competency.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's about God's design.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: God's design, God's order, and the authority that He's established.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's clear in many passages, you know.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so that submission ultimately is one, as we said, to honor God.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think for women, many women, you know, I think of 1 Peter 3, it's scary to submit to a husband because the husband isn't perfect.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's not.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Amen to that.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so then 1 Peter says, not fearing anything that is fearful, right?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because ultimately it comes back to I'm trusting God.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and once again, there could be all kinds of misconceptions about submission.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like submission means you never discuss things and you, you know, obviously there's all kinds of abuses of authority.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when functioning as God designed, this submission of not fighting for my way, but but really submitting to God and working that out in submission to a husband really displays, once again, the beauty of the gospel.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things that really struck me going through Titus to this time is God's wisdom, even in having the older men, women disciple the younger women in submission.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Not that a husband could never try to encourage his wife in different areas, but Titus is trying to set us up for success here, where the husband's not like, wife, you got to submit and kind of using his authority to try to get her to do what he wants, because husbands could be very susceptible to trying to use their authority to for their own benefit.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so the wisdom of having the older women come in and just teach the younger women in that sense, removing the power dynamic of just embracing God's way.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I think that just shows the beauty of the church and God's design, where we're all helping each other to embrace, you know, as husbands, our roles as sacrificially laying down our lives for our families, as wives, submitting and embracing the leadership that God has given to the husband, and to do that in a way that ultimately the goal is to display the gospel in our lives.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it is that's that's a good word, Josh, because it's it is God's design that older women in the family of God who are mature in their faith would come alongside younger women and disciple them into these really counterintuitive ways.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, uh, I feel like so often when a couple comes into crisis counseling, right, they'll say something like, um, or the husband will say something like, you know, my wife just doesn't submit to me.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's that submit and respect are typically his first two words, right?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then he's weaponized submission for years.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like, man, it it's it, that's not, it may not be his place.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: I know some of the guys listening to this might be like, oh, I'm the leader of my home.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you might be proving my point.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, where it's like, right, really, like, who's doing this?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like I teased when I preached this, right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I shouldn't preach this sermon.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we sh this is this is that older women disciple younger women.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Older men disciple younger men, right?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it really is different.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think the tone of it, even when it comes from like an older, wiser woman in the faith saying, Hey, let me help you learn how to do this by faith.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Again, to your point, not because your husband is always hitting home runs in the leadership category, not because he's always quintessentially godly, right?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: But because you want to honor God.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: So let me walk with you through how to do that, right?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that's really powerful uh because when we when we try as men to force submission, it ends up being more like this.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of the the I would have connected to Genesis three, where Adam's gonna rule over his wife.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's more of like a subjugation.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: I want my way.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I think in 20 years of marriage, there was maybe one time, and it was always a fairly small issue.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: I just had to say to my wife, I need you to trust me as the leader of our home.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is where my conscience is at.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: But like, if you have to pull that submit woman card, like it's not gonna work.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's something wrong in how you're understanding the leadership and submission in your home.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think often it's interesting because you know, um, we can use biblical words, but stuff them with carnality.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: So we can begin to use this word like submission, but really we just want a wife to give us whatever we want.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: And that's just carnality.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: So we can't weaponize the text.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so we can't explain away the text or do away with the text.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: So there's this, like you were saying, like you know, for a woman to read this, you can't weasel out of it just because maybe your husband's not as godly as you want him to be.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: But then I think the flip side would be for Christian men to not take this text and hammer their wives with it.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's neither one is actually what the text is designed to do.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think once again, this all comes back to the gospel.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the goal for all of this worked out is that the gospel would take root in hearts, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: That people would embrace it and see the goodness of God's ways, right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so even as husbands, the goal is to win our wives, to to for them to say, like, hey, this leader is leading me towards Christ.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: He actually wants my feedback.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: He wants my like when I'm being a bonehead, I want my wife to like, hey, point it out and help me to see things that I don't see.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's good for me, that's good for our marriage.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like good leaders listen and are, as Peter says in 1 Peter 3, understanding, yeah, right.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: But then at the same time, you know, we're not, as you said, we want to see it function in God's design for all of us to embrace that by faith.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's hard for all of us.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: No one gets a pass, right?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so, like in a perfect world, this is probably a podcast for another day.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: Husbands should love their wives like Christ loves the church.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: The church submitting to Christ is it's hard because of our flesh, but it's a joy because Christ is good.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then that's should be the model for Christian homes.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: In a perfect world.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: A husband is striving to model Christ-like leadership, and a wife then joyfully submits to the husband, both acting out of faith, right, right, to the word of what God's word is revealed.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: But actually, you know, we know this because of, I mean, the book of Titus, but also just our own culture today, these encouragements to work out our faith in these specific ways are not conditioned upon somebody else.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the challenge.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Is really saying, hey, even if my spouse is not always walking with God or maybe never walks with God, how do I still obey the word?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: And which there are some caveats, there's some questions that would have to be answered, maybe even one-on-one with a mature sister or brother in the Lord.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: But we we're saying we really want to value this.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're really going after this.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that heart posture of just wanting to see just see Christ exalted, wanting to see the gospel spread, wanting to see the goodness of God's love and grace transform lives.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're after.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: And and it is uh it it adorns the gospel with good works.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that verse 10 is just staggering, kind of to to finish maybe out our conversation, right?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really the motivation for all of these, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: And um, we probably gotta circle back around at some point and do slaves and submission there because that's a unique conversation um that is worthy of time.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but every one of these, as you mentioned early on, is there's a there's a motivation, right?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: That the word of God would not be reviled, right, in verse five.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: That that there would be nothing evil to say about you, verse eight.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that the gospel would be adorned.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: And we have such a privilege as we live counterculturally by faith in the context of whether it's our homes, our world, with wherever we are, our workplaces.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the gospel's adorned.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: People see Christ through our life, the quality of our lives.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's it's I think it's way harder, right?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: Would you agree?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Then it's it's one thing to say, I mean, we can get nervous, but oh, I'm a Christian, I go to church.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: We could even have apologetic conversations about why we believe Christianity is is the is the way to God.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: But that's it can be easier than living it out.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Than living it out.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: Especially when we're like, oh, but that's unfair or that's unjust.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and then we gotta come back and check our hearts, right?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because maybe if we think the word of God is unfair or unjust, maybe we're a little bit out of line with scripture, you know, male, female, however we fall out there, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, well, brother, uh, anything else you want to add on Titus II?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's beautiful.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're good.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, well, brothers and sisters, it is just encouraging to go through the word together.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we hope that uh you've been challenged through Titus II to adorn the gospel with good works from a heart that is transformed by the gospel.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's the goal of this podcast.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Heart Religion is all about helping people know, love, and follow Jesus by faith.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: If you have any questions that you'd like for us to answer, please send us an email, DM us, uh, reach out to the church office.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And as we continue to uh record these episodes, we really want to serve God's people here.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so we'd love to hear from you and the questions you might have.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then we'll shape the next episodes based on those questions so that we might continually be a people who work out our hearts before God by faith.