Latest / Deeply Well with Devi Brown / The Four Seasons of Heartbreak with Sheleana Aiyana

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The Four Seasons of Heartbreak with Sheleana Aiyana · Deeply Well with Devi Brown

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to Deeply Well. This show is a soft place
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Speaker 1: to land on your journey. A space where we explore
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Speaker 1: what it truly means to live well from the inside out.
0:14
Speaker 1: Not perfectly, but honestly. This is Deeply Well. Welcome to
0:22
Speaker 1: Deeply Well. Welcome back to this week's episode. I am
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Speaker 1: Debbie Brown and And today's guest is someone whose work
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Speaker 1: invites us to look at love, healing, and heartbreak, not
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Speaker 1: as things that are happening outside of us, but as
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Speaker 1: profound opportunities to turn home to ourselves. Shalina Ayana is
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Speaker 1: the international bestselling author of Becoming the One and is
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Speaker 1: the founder of Rising Woman, a global community that's dedicated
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Speaker 1: to self-healing, relational transformation, and and spiritual embodiment. Through her
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Speaker 1: deeply personal work, Shailena weaves together somatic awareness, inner child healing,
1:05
Speaker 1: spiritual wisdom, and her own lived experience to help millions
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Speaker 1: of people navigate love, loss, and self-reclamation. And now she's
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Speaker 1: entering a new chapter with her forthcoming book, The Four
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Speaker 1: Seasons of Heartbreak, how to mend your spirit and move
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Speaker 1: forward after a breakup. It arrives in stores February 2nd.
1:25
Speaker 1: Pre-order it now. And in it, she offers a compassionate
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Speaker 1: framework for moving through grief by looking to the wisdom
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Speaker 1: of nature, honoring our own inner seasons of letting go, grieving,
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Speaker 1: beginning again, and eventually reopening ourselves to love and joy. Today,
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Speaker 1: we are going to be talking about what heartbreak can
1:45
Speaker 1: reveal to us, why healing cannot be rushed, the patterns
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Speaker 1: that we carry into love, and what it really means
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Speaker 1: to find ourselves again after loss. Plus, we're going to
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Speaker 1: get into life, motherhood, career, and the many ways we
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Speaker 1: evolve as women throughout seasons of all of it. Please
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Speaker 1: welcome to Deeply Well, Shailena Ayanna.
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Speaker 2: Hello. Thanks for having me. It's so nice to be here.
2:11
Speaker 2: Thank you.
2:12
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so happy to
2:16
Speaker 1: be with you in person. I had the pleasure of
2:19
Speaker 1: being on your show when my book came out and
2:22
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. I loved that combo.
2:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.
2:26
Speaker 1: And just, yeah, being like connected online and just loving
2:31
Speaker 1: your work and your sharing and all that you radiate
2:36
Speaker 1: outward for people. So thank you for being here.
2:39
Speaker 2: Thanks back at you. Yeah. It's such a pleasure. And
2:42
Speaker 2: it's so nice to connect with people like in the
2:44
Speaker 2: actual flesh these days because there's such a big, busy
2:48
Speaker 2: online world, but it's really these moments dropping in in
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Speaker 2: person and getting to connect that mean the most.
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Speaker 1: Isn't it so wild that one, this was the only
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Speaker 1: way to be when we were younger, right. In our childhood. Um,
3:01
Speaker 1: But now how actually that is such a lost art,
3:05
Speaker 1: being able to be with others in the flesh and
3:09
Speaker 1: even being able to be yourself with another person in
3:14
Speaker 1: person versus sharing yourself online. It's so interesting. Yeah.
3:18
Speaker 2: It's almost like we've developed these false personas, masks that
3:24
Speaker 2: we have online and everybody gets to project and ideate
3:28
Speaker 2: about who they think you are, but then there's this
3:31
Speaker 2: lack of true connection and understanding of each other and
3:35
Speaker 2: these relational skills. Like I'm reading stories about how young people,
3:40
Speaker 2: they don't know how to navigate conflict or have deep
3:44
Speaker 2: conversations anymore. So everything happens through text message. And yeah,
3:48
Speaker 2: it's something that I'm looking forward to shifting. And I
3:51
Speaker 2: think that with the way that technology is going, we're
3:53
Speaker 2: going to see a, I think we're going to see
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Speaker 2: the pendulum swing.
3:56
Speaker 1: Yeah.
3:57
Speaker 2: You know, we're going to come back.
3:59
Speaker 1: My God, has that pendulum been swinging? Like that thing
4:04
Speaker 1: is going right to left so fast. It's been really
4:09
Speaker 1: fascinating the last handful of years. And, you know, even
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Speaker 1: speaking to that, you know, what you're observing with communication
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Speaker 1: of younger people and like what kind of really potent
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Speaker 1: developmental years have shifted for them because of the pandemic
4:29
Speaker 1: or because of really the reliance on emotional education, sometimes
4:34
Speaker 1: before the feelings even develop. It's fascinating to watch. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see where the
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Speaker 2: next generation goes. And in a way, I feel that
4:47
Speaker 2: my work is preparing for something. Like I can just
4:51
Speaker 2: feel this surge of a return to To nature and
4:55
Speaker 2: connection and land and the elements and all of that brewing.
4:59
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, with robots walking around and
5:03
Speaker 2: AI at an all-time high, which some of it is
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Speaker 2: useful for sure, but I think there is going to
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Speaker 2: be this mass return.
5:10
Speaker 1: I hope.
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Speaker 2: I pray. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I agree.
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Speaker 2: It's so interesting.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I think so many people have just
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Speaker 1: loved your book, Becoming the One, and it really led
5:22
Speaker 1: them to.
5:24
Speaker 1: Their path, their experience of their hero or heroine's journey.
5:28
Speaker 1: And as you move into this current book that's going
5:31
Speaker 1: to be released in February, I was really excited to
5:35
Speaker 1: read about this book and especially the title, Four Seasons
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Speaker 1: of Heartbreak, because I think for some of us on
5:44
Speaker 1: the path, we come to understand how absolutely essential pain
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Speaker 1: is for purpose and how useful it is, how it
5:54
Speaker 1: can be changed in form to really serve us. And
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Speaker 1: I think so often, especially around heartbreak, and especially for women,
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Speaker 1: if you look at the centuries of us, not just
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Speaker 1: this modern moment, the idea of heartbreak used to feel
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Speaker 1: so shameful. Mm-hmm. right? Like you used to feel like
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Speaker 1: something was fundamentally wrong with you, I think for so many.
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Speaker 1: And it was also something that I think a burden
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Speaker 1: a lot of people carry in shame and don't know
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Speaker 1: how to process, don't know how to work with it.
6:29
Speaker 1: And so you stuff it, right? Or it embeds in
6:36
Speaker 1: you in a way that changes form for you for
6:38
Speaker 1: the future. So to lean into that and actually like
6:43
Speaker 1: use it as a catalyst for awakening, as an opportunity
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Speaker 1: to grow and learn about the elements and learn about
6:50
Speaker 1: yourself and learn about spiritual process, I thought was so beautiful.
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Speaker 1: So talk to me about, you know, what inspired you
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Speaker 1: to approach sharing this kind of work in this way
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Speaker 1: through the framework of Four Seasons of Heartbreak?
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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Well, heartbreak is a threshold, right? It's a doorway.
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Speaker 2: It's an initiation. And it can also be a fork
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Speaker 2: in the road where you can go this way or
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Speaker 2: you can go that way. And there's a path of
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Speaker 2: bitterness or there's a path of self-awareness and growth. And
7:22
Speaker 2: what you're speaking to, that sense of shame, that feeling
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Speaker 2: of being a burden, that's where we really get stuck
7:29
Speaker 2: in that feeling of heartbreak. And we believe that culturally,
7:34
Speaker 2: the narrative is we should just move on quickly. You
7:36
Speaker 2: just get over it and if you're grieving for too long,
7:38
Speaker 2: there must be something wrong with you. Maybe you're depressed
7:40
Speaker 2: or broken. And for me, so much of my work
7:45
Speaker 2: is already informed by the elements. You know, we were
7:47
Speaker 2: talking before we started recording and I live on 10
7:50
Speaker 2: acres in a cedar forest in the middle of the
7:53
Speaker 2: ocean on a small island. And so much of my
7:57
Speaker 2: days are spent in nature. That's where I catch a
8:00
Speaker 2: lot of the wisdom that comes into my books and
8:03
Speaker 2: the songs that I catch as well. And It just
8:07
Speaker 2: made sense to me when it came through that this
8:11
Speaker 2: book should be broken up into the season so that
8:14
Speaker 2: a person has a very natural template for how to
8:19
Speaker 2: move through such an enormous experience that really mirrors the
8:25
Speaker 2: cycles of the earth. And because we are already nature,
8:30
Speaker 2: we are part of it. And we all operate in cycles,
8:33
Speaker 2: whether we try to resist them or not. There are
8:36
Speaker 2: always inner seasons happening. There are times when everything is
8:39
Speaker 2: really effortless and easy. We've all had those times. And
8:42
Speaker 2: there are times where it just seems like everything is
8:45
Speaker 2: caving in on us and everything is being ripped away
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Speaker 2: and you're trying to grasp and just everything is just dispersing, right?
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Speaker 2: We have those times. And so what I've found is
8:55
Speaker 2: that the deeper we look at nature, the more we
8:59
Speaker 2: can see that it's mirroring our own inner process at
9:02
Speaker 2: all times. So Four Seasons of Heartbreak is this slow burn.
9:07
Speaker 2: It's this welcome invitation to see this moment as medicine,
9:13
Speaker 2: to see this moment as a time to gather your
9:18
Speaker 2: soul lessons in love, to really reflect on what does
9:22
Speaker 2: this heartbreak have to teach you? How can it shape
9:25
Speaker 2: you sort of like a river carving a stone? And
9:28
Speaker 2: can you surrender to that, allow it to bring healing,
9:32
Speaker 2: bring insight, bring awareness, and then hopefully return you in
9:38
Speaker 2: deeper relationship to yourself? Not even coming out of it
9:42
Speaker 2: and now you're ready to go find your dream partner,
9:45
Speaker 2: but true relationship to self where you really feel like
9:50
Speaker 2: you know yourself, you have a relationship to your inner
9:56
Speaker 2: world and your art. your expression, your creativity so you
10:01
Speaker 2: can move through the world from that place and so
10:04
Speaker 2: that's this book is broken up into you know we
10:06
Speaker 2: start in autumn which is this process of letting go
10:10
Speaker 2: and you can feel that things are shifting and you
10:13
Speaker 2: might not be quite ready yet we're going through this
10:16
Speaker 2: autumn phase and then we move into winter which is
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Speaker 2: time of clarity. There's a stillness. There's, you know, usually
10:24
Speaker 2: if you're in a place where there's really heavy winters,
10:27
Speaker 2: you get a lot of frozen ground and everything is hibernating,
10:32
Speaker 2: but then the water is very crystal clear. And so
10:35
Speaker 2: that's actually a beautiful time to dream, to reflect, to grieve.
10:42
Speaker 2: And then we move into spring, which is when we
10:44
Speaker 2: begin to consider possibilities. We But something that people don't
10:50
Speaker 2: think about when they think about spring is how much
10:53
Speaker 2: work there still is to do in spring, right? Just
10:57
Speaker 2: think about the energy that a seed takes to push
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Speaker 2: up through the dark earth. So there's a lot of
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Speaker 2: inner work happening there. And then when we move into summer,
11:08
Speaker 2: there is more hope. And I chose to finish this
11:12
Speaker 2: book off with the chapter, The Gift of Being Single,
11:15
Speaker 2: because I didn't want people to finish this book And
11:19
Speaker 2: then already be future pacing about who they're going to
11:21
Speaker 2: be with next, other than you're going to be with you.
11:24
Speaker 2: And what are the gifts in that? Oh, I love that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's so good. It's so good. And it's just
11:34
Speaker 1: such a beautiful way, what you're describing, for someone to
11:38
Speaker 1: just really be with themselves on this adventure of self
11:44
Speaker 1: to really just get in the observer seat and watch
11:48
Speaker 1: all of it unfold. And, you know, I think that's
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Speaker 1: a thing that is so important for people to know too.
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Speaker 1: It's like when you're moving through something that is really
11:59
Speaker 1: like changing you from the inside out, it is not
12:04
Speaker 1: a weekend of vision boarding that gets you to the
12:07
Speaker 1: other side of it, right? Like take the year, take
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Speaker 1: your slow time in changing form and updating and refining
12:16
Speaker 1: and releasing and just all of the things that becoming requires. Yeah,
12:24
Speaker 1: that's so, I loved especially the way you were describing winter.
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Speaker 1: That's so, so resonant. The beauty of that. And it's
12:32
Speaker 1: usually a time I think when people start to fester.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
12:36
Speaker 1: And kind of boil over a little for so many reasons,
12:39
Speaker 1: the holidays, the isolation, the weather. What do you consider
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Speaker 1: to be some of the best gifts of heartbreak?
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Speaker 2: Well, I like to use the word remembrance when we're
12:55
Speaker 2: thinking about heartbreak, because it's not even that you are
12:59
Speaker 2: necessarily becoming somebody new, but you're returning to and remembering
13:03
Speaker 2: your innate essence. And so what is that? Who is that?
13:08
Speaker 2: Think about you as a small child. Like what art
13:12
Speaker 2: were you creating? What did you love? What were you
13:15
Speaker 2: passionate about? What was your mode when you were, you know,
13:19
Speaker 2: in that really innate, innocent place? And so often what
13:25
Speaker 2: happens is that that all gets buried with the masks
13:28
Speaker 2: go on, the armor goes up, and we do what
13:30
Speaker 2: we have to do to survive our lives, you know,
13:34
Speaker 2: in this world. But heartbreak is this opportunity to remember,
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Speaker 2: to remember, to reclaim, and also to rewind and say, okay,
13:47
Speaker 2: what are some of those heartbreaks that I never dealt with?
13:51
Speaker 2: So in the book, really early on, I talk about
13:54
Speaker 2: what I call the original wound. And the original wound
13:57
Speaker 2: is not even your first romantic heartbreak. It's not the
14:01
Speaker 2: first crush you had. I'm talking way back. So this
14:05
Speaker 2: could be with a parent. This could be somebody left.
14:08
Speaker 2: This could be somebody passed away. This could be somebody
14:10
Speaker 2: just couldn't show up. They couldn't love you. They couldn't
14:12
Speaker 2: see you. They couldn't hear you. This could be a
14:17
Speaker 2: few girls on the school playground who were your best
14:20
Speaker 2: friends and turned on you and you were left without
14:24
Speaker 2: any friends in grade one. I think we all have
14:26
Speaker 2: stories like that. I know I do. And when we
14:30
Speaker 2: take a look at our original wounding, It can actually
14:35
Speaker 2: help to alleviate the attachment we have to the person
14:39
Speaker 2: that we're grieving in the present moment. And this was
14:42
Speaker 2: very much my story. So when I was going through
14:45
Speaker 2: my divorce in my early 20s, everything was ripped open
14:49
Speaker 2: and I was in sheer panic. I was desperate for
14:54
Speaker 2: him to return, even though I manifested him leaving. And so.
15:01
Speaker 2: As he drove away with his new girlfriend in their
15:03
Speaker 2: red SUV, they're driving down the road. I remember feeling
15:08
Speaker 2: so panic stricken. And then it was just a flood
15:11
Speaker 2: of memory of me being three and dropped off at
15:13
Speaker 2: a foster home, kicking and screaming and watching my mom's
15:16
Speaker 2: headlights drive off and leaving me in the dark night.
15:20
Speaker 2: And that moment was really pivotal for me because even
15:24
Speaker 2: though I was so overwhelmed by the sensations I was feeling,
15:27
Speaker 2: I was also relieved because okay, this isn't actually about him.
15:31
Speaker 2: This is about my unfinished business. This is about all
15:34
Speaker 2: the heartbreaks, all the traumas, all those times that I
15:38
Speaker 2: never felt my feelings and it's all coming up. So
15:43
Speaker 2: I always tell people, if you're completely overwhelmed by this heartbreak,
15:46
Speaker 2: if you feel like you can't cope, you can't eat,
15:49
Speaker 2: you can't sleep, that's probably not about them. Yeah. And
15:52
Speaker 2: that's actually a really good thing. Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 1: So good. The original wound work is it's what the
16:00
Speaker 1: work is, you know? And it's like, that is, I
16:02
Speaker 1: think the piece of course, like subconsciously and knowingly that
16:05
Speaker 1: everyone wants to do everything, but that part it's like, okay, okay.
16:10
Speaker 1: But do you have a different breath work pattern? Maybe
16:13
Speaker 1: I could use, you know, or like, okay, okay. But
16:15
Speaker 1: can I, is there a retreat coming up? I can
16:17
Speaker 1: just go to, and it's like, and thank you for sharing, um,
16:22
Speaker 1: specifically the depth of your lived experience and story, because
16:25
Speaker 1: that is, I mean, the depths of that. Right. And
16:30
Speaker 1: it's like, when you get to what that original wound is,
16:33
Speaker 1: when you get to that like precious three-year-old, my God,
16:37
Speaker 1: like what a transcendent opportunity to be a time traveler,
16:42
Speaker 1: you know, to be able to go to that age
16:45
Speaker 1: and also finally give that experience to the care, the tenderness,
16:51
Speaker 1: the observation and presence it deserves. So the feeling can move. Yeah.
16:56
Speaker 2: I mean, heartbreak is a knock on the door. It's saying, hey,
16:58
Speaker 2: what's here to be felt? What haven't you paid attention to?
17:01
Speaker 2: What in your history haven't you grieved? Where do you
17:05
Speaker 2: need to dive in here and process some of this
17:08
Speaker 2: so that you can close the loop, so you can
17:10
Speaker 2: complete the cycle and really start a new pathway? And
17:16
Speaker 2: for me, it was like, a lot. You know, all
17:20
Speaker 2: the foster homes, all the addiction, all of the abuse,
17:23
Speaker 2: all of the abandonment, all of the trauma, all of
17:25
Speaker 2: the no belonging anywhere. And so it was painful. I
17:31
Speaker 2: actually really thought I might die in my sleep. I
17:34
Speaker 2: really did. There were nights where I was going to
17:36
Speaker 2: go to bed and I thought, okay, I'm in so
17:38
Speaker 2: much suffering here. I might not wake up. And I
17:42
Speaker 2: did though. Every day I began to do these processes
17:46
Speaker 2: that are in the book and really do my practices
17:50
Speaker 2: and do my healing work, sit in ceremonies, doing, you know,
17:53
Speaker 2: the rebirthing, doing the transpersonal therapy, doing the breath work
17:57
Speaker 2: and the shadow work and the mother wound work and
17:59
Speaker 2: the father wound work and all the work. And, you know,
18:02
Speaker 2: eventually I just took the date off the calendar because
18:05
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to be done grieving by when.
18:09
Speaker 2: And eventually I was like, okay, I'm going to just
18:10
Speaker 2: let that go. And I'm just going to be in
18:12
Speaker 2: this until I'm not. And that's what I encourage people
18:16
Speaker 2: to do. And that's why I wrote this book, because
18:19
Speaker 2: I wanted people to have permission to feel as deeply
18:22
Speaker 2: as they possibly could and not waste it.
18:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't waste it.
18:27
Speaker 2: Don't waste it.
18:29
Speaker 1: It's really powerful. Hi, everyone. I have something that I
18:36
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18:39
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19:25
Speaker 1: into this work. You posted something recently that I loved
19:36
Speaker 1: and deeply related to. I want to say I saw
19:39
Speaker 1: it yesterday and I'm paraphrasing, but the post was about,
19:45
Speaker 1: you know, when you get to a point where you're
19:47
Speaker 1: not looking for more ways to work on yourself. and
19:50
Speaker 1: you're just letting yourself live, like live what you've become
19:54
Speaker 1: in real time. Speak more to that when you get
19:58
Speaker 1: to that part of the journey.
20:01
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, there's a time and a place for everything, right?
20:05
Speaker 2: And Collectively, we went through, I think the last five years,
20:08
Speaker 2: and there's this huge healing wave. Everybody's doing all the
20:10
Speaker 2: inner work. And I'm not suggesting that we stop completely.
20:14
Speaker 2: And some people haven't even begun. So it's very circumstantial
20:18
Speaker 2: to you. However, I do feel that at some point,
20:22
Speaker 2: if you're on the inner work journey, you're doing all
20:24
Speaker 2: the shadow work, you're doing the breath work, you're doing
20:26
Speaker 2: that mother-father wound work, you know your inner child. Eventually,
20:31
Speaker 2: the work then becomes actually living in joy.
20:36
Speaker 1: Right?
20:36
Speaker 2: Like when people come over and visit me, they're like, oh,
20:40
Speaker 2: if they don't know me very well and they're getting
20:42
Speaker 2: to know me, they have these ideas, right? Because I
20:44
Speaker 2: have this big platform and I'm writing and oh, you're
20:46
Speaker 2: actually just like goofing off and, you know, making food
20:51
Speaker 2: and being silly most of your day. And I'm like,
20:53
Speaker 2: that's actually the point. The point isn't to be bogged
20:56
Speaker 2: down by emotional processing and constantly psychoanalyzing ourselves and just
21:01
Speaker 2: being in this pit of emotion all the time. It
21:03
Speaker 2: really is actually to liberate ourselves enough that we can
21:08
Speaker 2: be in joy, that we can be in a place
21:11
Speaker 2: of play. That's that innate essence again, because that's like
21:15
Speaker 2: our baseline mode when we are free is to actually
21:20
Speaker 2: enjoy life. And people don't realize how inhibiting joy or
21:24
Speaker 2: allowing ourselves to get excited about things, allowing ourselves to celebrate.
21:28
Speaker 2: And I see this all the time, especially with holidays.
21:32
Speaker 2: That inhibition, that inability to let ourselves truly celebrate and
21:38
Speaker 2: be excited about things, that's pain. That's pain holding us back.
21:45
Speaker 2: And so I really say at the end, let yourself
21:49
Speaker 2: go into the fun part too. And that's where living starts.
21:54
Speaker 2: And that's why my invitation for people is creativity and
21:59
Speaker 2: not necessarily about manifesting a partner. Because your creativity, whatever
22:04
Speaker 2: it is, it could be cooking, it could be gardening,
22:07
Speaker 2: it could be, you know, I make all sorts of
22:09
Speaker 2: crafts with my hands. It could be writing, singing, dancing.
22:12
Speaker 2: Whatever your art is, that is you. And that is
22:18
Speaker 2: your true innate essence. That's your freedom. And when you're
22:21
Speaker 2: in that place, it just so happens that the people
22:25
Speaker 2: around you naturally become the most aligned people for you.
22:29
Speaker 2: And the people you meet, whether that's partners or friends,
22:32
Speaker 2: everybody just kind of falls into place when you're being yourself.
22:36
Speaker 1: Yes.
22:37
Speaker 2: And so be creative. This is your medicine.
22:42
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes. My God, is that so true.
22:47
Speaker 1: What was the moment for you when you realized that
22:50
Speaker 1: on your own journey? When you're like, this is not
22:52
Speaker 1: about adding more work or more excavation of my pain points.
22:57
Speaker 1: This is about maybe building tolerance for good.
23:00
Speaker 2: You know, it was sort of a cascading process of
23:07
Speaker 2: noticing those moments where I couldn't let joy in. Like
23:10
Speaker 2: when I was younger, I would be in a crowd
23:14
Speaker 2: and everyone would be clapping and smiling and I couldn't
23:17
Speaker 2: even do that because I was so traumatized and shut
23:21
Speaker 2: down that I couldn't even just let myself go. You know,
23:25
Speaker 2: I spent over 10 years not celebrating Christmas. I'm now
23:29
Speaker 2: a very happy 90s Christmas mom. Like I go all out.
23:33
Speaker 2: But it just it slowly started to appear in my
23:36
Speaker 2: awareness that I was having a hard time letting myself
23:40
Speaker 2: express joy in the presence of others because it was vulnerable.
23:45
Speaker 2: It's really vulnerable to let ourselves experience joy and express
23:48
Speaker 2: it because that means that we could get hurt. We
23:52
Speaker 2: could get let down. We could be disappointed. And like,
23:56
Speaker 2: what's next?
23:57
Speaker 1: What happens after I let all of that in? Yeah.
24:01
Speaker 2: And what if it goes away?
24:03
Speaker 1: Yeah.
24:04
Speaker 2: And so there is this process of allowing ourselves to
24:09
Speaker 2: feel it all, being comfortable with the spectrum of our
24:13
Speaker 2: own humanity. Because the deeper that we go, the more
24:16
Speaker 2: we allow ourselves to feel grief, the more we allow
24:18
Speaker 2: ourselves to feel joy. They go hand in hand. But
24:22
Speaker 2: it takes courage. It takes courage.
24:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. And presence. You got to stay in it. And
24:30
Speaker 1: I think that's what's so beautiful to continue to bring forward.
24:34
Speaker 1: And this conversation and all the conversations is all of
24:38
Speaker 1: this by design takes time. So the real work is
24:44
Speaker 1: often first working with your own nervous system so you
24:49
Speaker 1: can have capacity to for patience, capacity for time to pass, um,
24:57
Speaker 1: and whatever speed or not it's supposed to for each
25:00
Speaker 1: of us in whatever moment we're in.
25:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. Just being with ourselves.
25:04
Speaker 1: Yeah.
25:04
Speaker 2: I have a whole section on that in my book
25:06
Speaker 2: about what does it actually mean to be with yourself? Right.
25:09
Speaker 2: It's not, we have our headphones in and we're moving
25:12
Speaker 2: quickly and listening to something distracting. Um, it's like really
25:16
Speaker 2: just allowing ourselves to be present with What is the
25:19
Speaker 2: sensation in my body? What is the feeling? What is
25:22
Speaker 2: the thought? Where am I in this space? Here I am.
25:26
Speaker 2: And can I be with me while I be with you?
25:28
Speaker 2: In other words, can I actually hold my own experience
25:31
Speaker 2: while being a loving witness to yours without having to
25:34
Speaker 2: shut down or push it away or abandon myself? And
25:39
Speaker 2: so that is also a practice that we're really invited
25:42
Speaker 2: into in heartbreak because the feeling can be so overwhelming
25:45
Speaker 2: that we want to do all the numbing. We want
25:47
Speaker 2: to run away. I literally, at one point when I
25:50
Speaker 2: was going through it, I would just run up and
25:52
Speaker 2: down my stairs in my front porch, just up and
25:55
Speaker 2: down the stairs, just like trying to run away, you know,
25:58
Speaker 2: just moving the energy. And that's just part of it too.
26:03
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And the creativity of it too. Like that
26:06
Speaker 1: is what is so, I think, yeah, when you first start,
26:09
Speaker 1: people don't know or imagine how creative you can be
26:12
Speaker 1: with your pain and your process and how silly you
26:16
Speaker 1: can make it, how beautiful you can make it, how
26:18
Speaker 1: anything you can really make it. You know, you do
26:23
Speaker 1: have a beautiful relationship and love and family. And talk
26:29
Speaker 1: to me about the transition into being open to be
26:34
Speaker 1: loved really well and to give love well to another.
26:39
Speaker 2: It really did take heartbreak. And that's why I think
26:41
Speaker 2: it can be such good medicine, you know, because when
26:44
Speaker 2: I was in my twenties. So I married this guy,
26:46
Speaker 2: the first guy who was ever not abusive toward me.
26:49
Speaker 2: I was like, you'll do, you seem nice. And he
26:52
Speaker 2: was from a, he was actually from the US. So
26:54
Speaker 2: when I'm from Canada, we got married so we could
26:56
Speaker 2: be together, but it wasn't really a marriage. It was,
27:00
Speaker 2: we were young and really naive. And I remember laying
27:04
Speaker 2: in bed one night, I had sent him away for
27:07
Speaker 2: a couple of months to go visit his friends. And
27:09
Speaker 2: I looked up at the ceiling and I thought to myself, gosh,
27:13
Speaker 2: I hope he finds somebody else. I hope he falls
27:15
Speaker 2: in love with somebody else so that I don't have
27:17
Speaker 2: to take care of him anymore. And so I don't
27:20
Speaker 2: have to feel the guilt of breaking up with him. Well,
27:24
Speaker 2: he did very quickly. So yeah, like when I said
27:30
Speaker 2: I manifested, I really, really manifested it. It was within
27:34
Speaker 2: a month or two, he fell in love with somebody
27:37
Speaker 2: and I was just gutted all of a sudden. And
27:41
Speaker 2: I was kind of surprised at my reaction because I
27:44
Speaker 2: had wanted this. I felt so clear that this wasn't
27:47
Speaker 2: my person. But then when the attachment was disrupted, I
27:52
Speaker 2: was just completely distraught. And it really shook me to
27:56
Speaker 2: my core because what I hadn't realized at the time
28:00
Speaker 2: is that I had never processed all of the trauma
28:02
Speaker 2: from my past. I hadn't processed growing up in and
28:05
Speaker 2: out of foster homes on the streets and doing drugs
28:08
Speaker 2: and being in such abusive situations and really never acknowledging
28:13
Speaker 2: my own tenderness or my own sensitivity. So I had
28:16
Speaker 2: spent all of my life up until about 25, very guarded,
28:22
Speaker 2: very defended, very afraid of intimacy and vulnerability, and therefore
28:28
Speaker 2: I was unreachable. And so not really a good person
28:31
Speaker 2: to be in partnership with, not very willing. And not
28:35
Speaker 2: very self-aware. So when it all came flooding back, it
28:39
Speaker 2: was just like one thing after another, me seeing all
28:43
Speaker 2: of the projections that were in our dynamic, all of
28:46
Speaker 2: the traumas that I was carrying that I had just
28:49
Speaker 2: sort of swept under the rug. So I dove in,
28:53
Speaker 2: I started doing weekly transpersonal therapy, I worked with a
28:57
Speaker 2: spiritual teacher for like four years straight. I did every
29:01
Speaker 2: ceremony under the sun. I was doing rebirthing breath work.
29:07
Speaker 2: I was doing it all, you know, and it was
29:09
Speaker 2: my pure commitment. I wasn't dating. I barely did anything
29:12
Speaker 2: other than just going all in and writing, of course,
29:15
Speaker 2: because I always wrote. And it was through that process
29:19
Speaker 2: that I really started to de-armor and I started to
29:24
Speaker 2: see just how protected I had been. And then I
29:27
Speaker 2: met Ben, who is now my husband. We've been together
29:30
Speaker 2: for over 11 years, but I really wasn't ready. And
29:33
Speaker 2: it's funny because when we met, I think I was
29:35
Speaker 2: 27 turning 28 and he was just turning 31. he
29:40
Speaker 2: was 30 turning 31 and both of us had planned
29:42
Speaker 2: to be single for years he didn't want to be
29:45
Speaker 2: in a relationship till he was 35 and I was
29:47
Speaker 2: like at least two or three years I'm gonna be
29:49
Speaker 2: single what happened is we ended up getting married when
29:52
Speaker 2: he was 35 and so that relationship really was this
29:57
Speaker 2: beginning where we sat down and we wrote letters to
30:01
Speaker 2: each other about what our intentions were, what kind of
30:04
Speaker 2: conscious relationship we wanted to have. I laid it all
30:07
Speaker 2: out on the table. I said, I'm only interested in
30:09
Speaker 2: a dynamic that is conscious, where we are willing to
30:12
Speaker 2: look at our minds, where we're doing this work together.
30:14
Speaker 2: Here's all the things that I want, and I'm not attached.
30:17
Speaker 2: If you don't want this, you can say no. And
30:20
Speaker 2: he wrote me a letter back, and we basically sat
30:23
Speaker 2: down and negotiated at the And that was the start
30:28
Speaker 2: for us. And it's been a hell of a ride.
30:30
Speaker 2: It's not been, we didn't ride off into the sunset
30:33
Speaker 2: at all.
30:33
Speaker 1: Yeah.
30:34
Speaker 2: We went through some very nightmarish phases, but we had
30:38
Speaker 2: the intention and we had the willingness and we had
30:41
Speaker 2: the tools. So we're still here, still standing.
30:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. What does that feel like?
30:48
Speaker 2: You know, it's all over the place sometimes. I still
30:51
Speaker 2: have these moments where I want to run because that's
30:55
Speaker 2: just so deep. within me. And then I have these
30:59
Speaker 2: moments where I just feel so proud of myself because
31:02
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone in my maternal lineage ever stayed.
31:07
Speaker 2: My whole maternal lineage, everybody is extremely mentally ill, very,
31:11
Speaker 2: very addicted in extreme trauma cycles. I don't have one
31:16
Speaker 2: person in my maternal lineage that I'm aware of that
31:19
Speaker 2: is healthy at all. And I've never met my father.
31:22
Speaker 2: So the only aspect of paternal lineage that I source
31:26
Speaker 2: is when I'm doing spirit work. And so I feel this,
31:33
Speaker 2: almost this pulling in me sometimes to go the other
31:37
Speaker 2: way that all of my maternal ancestors went. It's like
31:41
Speaker 2: being alone, being on my own. That's what I know.
31:46
Speaker 2: But being in relationship, being in connection and staying with it,
31:51
Speaker 2: being with the discomfort, That's my life's work. And it's
31:57
Speaker 2: a gift that I owe to my daughter. And I
32:00
Speaker 2: always heard that message early on, even, you know, 10
32:02
Speaker 2: years before I had her, if I was having a
32:05
Speaker 2: hard time and I would be in ceremony, I'd get
32:08
Speaker 2: this pretty fierce voice would come in. Are you going
32:12
Speaker 2: to save this work for your daughter? Are you going
32:13
Speaker 2: to do this? And so, yeah, it's just one of
32:17
Speaker 2: those things where we come in with these soul lessons
32:20
Speaker 2: and I think we bring them with us, but they
32:22
Speaker 2: just get a little bit easier. As time goes on.
32:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I relate to a lot of pieces
32:30
Speaker 1: of that. Um, yeah. And I, I had a similar
32:37
Speaker 1: knowing and aboding with my son where it was just, yeah,
32:41
Speaker 1: you got to do it. You're not going to leave
32:44
Speaker 1: this for him to do. Like he'll have things I'm sure,
32:48
Speaker 1: but it won't be this. Yeah. Yeah.
32:51
Speaker 2: Yeah. They have their own soul's journey. And that is enough.
32:56
Speaker 1: That is enough.
32:57
Speaker 2: Because it's already a lot.
32:58
Speaker 1: You can take off the last several hundred years on
33:00
Speaker 1: top of that, potentially thousands. I'm old. But yeah, it
33:05
Speaker 1: won't be that. You'll have some new frontiers to navigate, which, yeah,
33:10
Speaker 1: is very indicative of alpha generation in so many ways.
33:13
Speaker 1: But talk to me a little bit, too, about motherhood.
33:17
Speaker 1: I think that for me has been one of my
33:20
Speaker 1: greatest pleasures of doing the work. Um, and then living
33:26
Speaker 1: the joy is that I get to be so creative
33:31
Speaker 1: with my motherhood and I get to really like deeply
33:35
Speaker 1: at a cellular, um, vibrational level, feel the love between us.
33:42
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, that's that, oh, this is more
33:46
Speaker 1: than enough. Like that is what all of this is for. Um, yeah.
33:51
Speaker 1: Talk to me about how it feels. to love so freely,
33:55
Speaker 1: especially as the first of your kind with your daughter.
34:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, at first it was so overwhelming, the
34:05
Speaker 2: amount of love that I felt that I was actually
34:07
Speaker 2: afraid because I felt so heartbroken by how much I
34:13
Speaker 2: loved her and how little I could control. You know,
34:16
Speaker 2: it was like, as soon as I had her, I
34:18
Speaker 2: had this wake up call where I thought that I
34:22
Speaker 2: was negotiating a soul contract. Like I thought I could
34:25
Speaker 2: be like, okay, well in our dynamic, when you come
34:27
Speaker 2: to earth, you know, you're going to experience this and
34:30
Speaker 2: I can hold space for this, but we're not going
34:32
Speaker 2: to have that. And it's going to be so beautiful
34:34
Speaker 2: and I'm going to perfect it and curate it. And
34:37
Speaker 2: then she came and it was just like, no, no,
34:41
Speaker 2: you aren't negotiating. You thought you were, that's so cute,
34:46
Speaker 2: but you're not in charge. Like her soul came here
34:49
Speaker 2: to have her soul's experience. And I was like, what?
34:53
Speaker 2: You know, I was pretty devastated because this world is
34:56
Speaker 2: painful sometimes or a lot of times. And I was
35:00
Speaker 2: just realizing that she's going to have all sorts of
35:04
Speaker 2: experiences that are going to be really painful and hard.
35:07
Speaker 2: And I just loved her so much that I was
35:09
Speaker 2: afraid as how can I have my heart this open
35:12
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life and survive it? That's
35:14
Speaker 2: literally what I felt. And it was a lot. I mean,
35:18
Speaker 2: I'm sure you can relate.
35:20
Speaker 1: Oh my God. Like it just, it feels like grief
35:24
Speaker 1: ripping you apart. Yeah.
35:26
Speaker 2: They don't prepare you for that part, you know? And it's,
35:28
Speaker 2: you know, you hear about all the things that are
35:30
Speaker 2: hard about motherhood, but it's, yeah, it's super hard, but
35:34
Speaker 2: it's like the pain and the grief and the depth
35:37
Speaker 2: of love and the letting go and the surrender that
35:40
Speaker 2: you have. I'm like, that is the hard part for me.
35:44
Speaker 2: So that was intense. And then the other surprising thing
35:47
Speaker 2: that happened for me when I had her is, you know,
35:50
Speaker 2: we often hear about your inner child kind of getting triggered.
35:53
Speaker 2: And I don't know if this happened for you when
35:56
Speaker 2: you had your son. But I think I had spent
35:59
Speaker 2: so much time working with that part of me. That
36:03
Speaker 2: didn't really come up so much in the beginning. But
36:07
Speaker 2: what happened was my mother's inner child came up a lot.
36:11
Speaker 2: And so... Because she never had the opportunity to grieve
36:16
Speaker 2: and heal. I was like, every time Soraya cried or
36:20
Speaker 2: I would be holding her in my arms and looking
36:22
Speaker 2: at how tiny and vulnerable she was, I would just
36:24
Speaker 2: feel this sense of overwhelming heartache that my mother had
36:31
Speaker 2: been abused and that she had been hurt. And I
36:33
Speaker 2: just thought, you know, how could anyone harm such innocents?
36:39
Speaker 2: And so that part of my journey was surprising as well,
36:43
Speaker 2: how much my mother's healing journey came into my early
36:48
Speaker 2: motherhood process. And so you just never know what's going
36:51
Speaker 2: to come until you're there. Like you can't plan it. God,
36:55
Speaker 2: that is so true.
36:56
Speaker 1: That's so true. Little things too are interesting to me
37:00
Speaker 1: in that part of kind of our bigger view of
37:03
Speaker 1: what we're healing for ourselves and others in our generation,
37:06
Speaker 1: in other generations. But my son is, has the identical
37:12
Speaker 1: face to me and my mom. Like we, like it's
37:16
Speaker 1: this identical face, especially to both of us as like
37:19
Speaker 1: babies and children. Um, yeah. And when he, I had
37:25
Speaker 1: been pretty, I don't want to say deep. There's, there
37:30
Speaker 1: was so much room to grow, but I was, I
37:32
Speaker 1: had processes, right. I had practices. I had been doing
37:35
Speaker 1: my work. And so I didn't feel triggered in the
37:38
Speaker 1: same kind of ways. Like it wasn't like frazzling for
37:42
Speaker 1: me to hear crying or, you know, like it went
37:45
Speaker 1: somewhere else inside of me. It didn't register in that
37:47
Speaker 1: kind of a way. But yeah, I did feel, I
37:52
Speaker 1: felt the opportunity to be with vulnerability in my child
37:59
Speaker 1: in a way that no one in my family line
38:03
Speaker 1: had ever had the space for it. like there had
38:07
Speaker 1: never been that kind of opening of safe vulnerability. And
38:13
Speaker 1: I felt deeply the weight of that. Like sometimes I
38:16
Speaker 1: would hold him. Oh God, I remember this one nap
38:21
Speaker 1: that will just never, oh, I pray it never leaves
38:24
Speaker 1: my body or my mind. But I remember we were
38:27
Speaker 1: pressed heart to heart and I felt this like portal
38:32
Speaker 1: open between our hearts and this energy. And it was like,
38:36
Speaker 1: Like I could feel it in like my jaw, in my,
38:40
Speaker 1: like everywhere. And yeah, I had this feeling of just
38:47
Speaker 1: hundreds of women, like standing behind us, like watching that
38:51
Speaker 1: moment and feeling in that hug and connection, something that
38:56
Speaker 1: their bodies maybe never felt in their lifetimes. And it's
39:00
Speaker 1: just like, yeah. Yeah. we're here to do that. We're
39:08
Speaker 1: here to do that right now. And we can. And
39:11
Speaker 1: I think to the point that's really beautiful in your work,
39:15
Speaker 1: you can do it in a way that also lets
39:20
Speaker 1: you come to life and nourishes you. It's effortful, but
39:24
Speaker 1: it's not as impossible, I think, as so many feel
39:28
Speaker 1: when you approach these feelings that you've never felt before
39:33
Speaker 1: yeah um yeah.
39:35
Speaker 2: Yeah and isn't it so special how we get to
39:39
Speaker 2: watch them develop this sense of emotional capacity and maturity
39:44
Speaker 2: Like I never had that, you know, I was an
39:47
Speaker 2: absolute wreck. So anxious, so shut down. There was a
39:51
Speaker 2: time when I was 14 and I was in an
39:53
Speaker 2: emergency placement. My foster mom had really, she was an
39:58
Speaker 2: angel for me. And we were only together for a
40:01
Speaker 2: few months, but she just saw through it all. She
40:04
Speaker 2: saw through everything and she really loved me. And I
40:09
Speaker 2: fell in love with her because I hadn't been seen
40:12
Speaker 2: for most of my life. And I remember I was
40:14
Speaker 2: sitting on my floor folding laundry and she kind of
40:17
Speaker 2: walked out of the door to go do something before bed.
40:20
Speaker 2: And she just said, I love you. And my whole body,
40:24
Speaker 2: it just restricted. I was frozen. I couldn't say it back.
40:28
Speaker 2: And I remember feeling so scared. And I was like,
40:31
Speaker 2: I want to say it. I want to say it.
40:33
Speaker 2: I love you too. But I was just too terrified.
40:36
Speaker 2: Already at 14, so terrified to be vulnerable that I
40:41
Speaker 2: couldn't get the words out. And so you can just
40:45
Speaker 2: paint your own picture of how that looked in my
40:47
Speaker 2: adult relationships. But with my daughter, she's three. She's turning
40:52
Speaker 2: four soon. And she is learning how to do breath
40:56
Speaker 2: work when she's feeling overwhelmed. And she can say, I'm angry.
41:00
Speaker 2: And she has her other really intense patterns too. But
41:03
Speaker 2: she's learning. There was a moment recently where she had
41:09
Speaker 2: a big booger stuck in her nose. And I was
41:11
Speaker 2: trying to get it out and she was screaming and
41:13
Speaker 2: not letting me. We're in the bath. And I was like,
41:15
Speaker 2: just let me help you, you know. And I kind
41:18
Speaker 2: of got frustrated. I was like, why don't you trust me?
41:20
Speaker 2: You know, and it's like such a silly thing to
41:23
Speaker 2: say to a three-year-old. And you know what she did?
41:24
Speaker 2: She looked at me and she goes, go take a break.
41:32
Speaker 2: And I just looked at her and she said, go
41:33
Speaker 2: take a break. And I was like, okay. So I
41:37
Speaker 2: walked out and her auntie walked in and auntie helped me.
41:41
Speaker 2: solved the problem anyways, because it just was like a
41:43
Speaker 2: no mommy thing. But it was just funny to me because, A,
41:47
Speaker 2: I mean, I do that when I'm feeling overwhelmed. I say,
41:49
Speaker 2: I'm taking a break for a minute. You know, I
41:50
Speaker 2: need to breathe. But that she could identify that so early.
41:55
Speaker 2: And I'm just thinking about when I was three, if
41:59
Speaker 2: I had any feelings at all, it was like, either
42:01
Speaker 2: you're going away, I'm locking you in a room and leaving,
42:03
Speaker 2: or you're going to a foster home. So it's just
42:05
Speaker 2: so cool to watch how much things can change in
42:09
Speaker 2: just one generation. of loving with our hearts open.
42:13
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
42:14
Speaker 2: It's just really special. So I'm with you in that. Yeah.
42:28
Speaker 1: You know, I feel so called to ask something really
42:31
Speaker 1: specific because I think you're sharing really deep parts of
42:36
Speaker 1: your story that in general, the experience does not get
42:40
Speaker 1: talked about enough or supported enough. I remember when I
42:49
Speaker 1: was younger, for a portion of time, I went to school.
42:53
Speaker 1: The school that I went to had a pretty big
42:57
Speaker 1: population of foster kids, of children that were being moved
43:02
Speaker 1: around constantly or were in group homes. So I had
43:05
Speaker 1: a lot of friends growing up that were in group
43:09
Speaker 1: homes or foster care and witnessing them and then also
43:17
Speaker 1: knowing how profoundly alone and isolating and scary beyond belief.
43:26
Speaker 1: I just cannot imagine the process of even having to
43:33
Speaker 1: start over so often in completely unknown environments. And then
43:40
Speaker 1: when you turn 18, you are thrown into the world
43:44
Speaker 1: and you're a child and you are thrown into the
43:48
Speaker 1: world with pretty much absolutely nothing and no safety net
43:53
Speaker 1: and no, even not even a great family, but just
43:58
Speaker 1: nothing to go back to and claim it's, it's the layers,
44:04
Speaker 1: the complexity, the impossibleness of, of that kind of experience
44:09
Speaker 1: and the people that move through it and do so much, um,
44:13
Speaker 1: to become so much more. And also the people that
44:16
Speaker 1: can't quite make it through that experience to take root
44:21
Speaker 1: in a more stable future. Anything you can share with
44:28
Speaker 1: someone listening who identifies with that experience, um, of being
44:36
Speaker 1: able to really reclaim yourself and build a beautiful life anyway.
44:41
Speaker 2: Well, you know, so when I was 16, I, as
44:44
Speaker 2: soon as I was 16, I moved out. I started
44:46
Speaker 2: working two jobs. I started homeschooling myself and I just
44:51
Speaker 2: began to build what I felt was a life. And
44:56
Speaker 2: of course there were really, really hard times along the way,
45:00
Speaker 2: extremely abusive relationship, then a divorce, all of these things.
45:05
Speaker 2: I was really trying, you know, and I think that's
45:07
Speaker 2: what happens for a lot of us when we come
45:09
Speaker 2: out of cycles like that is we're doing our very
45:12
Speaker 2: best to try to put together a life, but we
45:14
Speaker 2: actually don't have a template yet. And so the first
45:18
Speaker 2: step is actually knowing that and acknowledging I don't have
45:21
Speaker 2: a template for this. So I have intentions to have
45:25
Speaker 2: a good life and I want to have a relationship
45:29
Speaker 2: with myself and with somebody that's beautiful, but I don't
45:32
Speaker 2: know how to get there yet.
45:33
Speaker 1: Yeah.
45:34
Speaker 2: And that was the piece that it took me a
45:36
Speaker 2: while to realize. I was kind of just using sheer
45:40
Speaker 2: brute force to get through it. And eventually we have
45:43
Speaker 2: to say, okay, I don't really know yet how to
45:45
Speaker 2: get there, but I'm going to learn. And then through that,
45:49
Speaker 2: there is this opening where you can see that the
45:54
Speaker 2: things that happened to you and the experiences you had
45:58
Speaker 2: weren't because there's something wrong with you. They weren't because
46:01
Speaker 2: you're broken or you're bad or you're unlovable or you're
46:04
Speaker 2: a reject, which is all of the things that I felt,
46:07
Speaker 2: it's actually preparing you for something beautiful. And I really
46:11
Speaker 2: believe that one of the truest signs of somebody who
46:15
Speaker 2: is integrated in their healing is that they are of
46:16
Speaker 2: service to others. And that doesn't mean you have to
46:18
Speaker 2: be on podcasts and you need to be on world stages.
46:22
Speaker 2: I like to volunteer at the food bank. That could
46:24
Speaker 2: be enough. Cat shelter, anywhere, just be of service, right?
46:29
Speaker 2: Be giving your energy. Because when you are in a
46:33
Speaker 2: healed place, you have energy to give. And so for me,
46:38
Speaker 2: it really is this gradual process of reclaiming your own
46:43
Speaker 2: sense of belonging. And that's, again, why I weave in
46:46
Speaker 2: nature and the elements. Because sometimes we look at our parents,
46:50
Speaker 2: we look at the people, the adults in our lives
46:53
Speaker 2: when we were small. We think, well, why couldn't you
46:54
Speaker 2: love me? Why couldn't you be there? How am I
46:57
Speaker 2: supposed to heal if there's nobody here to hold me?
47:00
Speaker 2: And sometimes that's just how it is. But the elements
47:03
Speaker 2: are always there, right? You can always go to a river.
47:07
Speaker 2: You can always swim in the ocean. You can always
47:10
Speaker 2: sit at the base of a tree. You can always
47:12
Speaker 2: go to the mountains. And there is a vibrational frequency
47:17
Speaker 2: of holding and healing that isn't just woo-woo talked about.
47:22
Speaker 2: It's scientifically proven for those of us who need that.
47:25
Speaker 2: There's plenty of research and literature that proves that that
47:28
Speaker 2: the more time we spend immersed in nature, that we
47:32
Speaker 2: get salt water on our skin, that we walk through
47:34
Speaker 2: the forest, that we heal on a cellular level. And
47:38
Speaker 2: we all belong because we are of this earth. And
47:42
Speaker 2: so you can sort of move beyond this need for
47:46
Speaker 2: human validation and approval when you return to those elemental truths.
47:52
Speaker 2: And that's been very helpful for me in my own journey,
47:55
Speaker 2: finding the mother and the father again, in the elements
47:58
Speaker 2: around me. And I think also another piece is look
48:02
Speaker 2: for your angels because I didn't get here alone, even
48:05
Speaker 2: though I worked my butt off and I put myself
48:09
Speaker 2: through school and I worked two jobs. I also had
48:14
Speaker 2: angels and I think we all have had a few.
48:18
Speaker 2: So I invite people to look back and think about
48:21
Speaker 2: who was an angel in your life, even if they
48:23
Speaker 2: were just there for a week or a month. Because
48:27
Speaker 2: those little glimmers and those moments where we feel and
48:30
Speaker 2: recognize that we are loved and seen, those carry us through. Yeah.
48:35
Speaker 2: And they're really important. And then eventually we get to
48:38
Speaker 2: be those people for others.
48:44
Speaker 1: Yeah.
48:48
Speaker 2: Beautifully said.
48:49
Speaker 1: Thank you.
48:49
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
48:53
Speaker 1: Well, Shay's new book is out in February. Four Seasons
48:59
Speaker 1: of Heartbreak. And also her book for children, her first one,
49:04
Speaker 1: is available now, which is called Thank You for This Day.
49:07
Speaker 1: And thank you for this. I'm so excited to read
49:09
Speaker 1: it with my quest. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful work. Beautiful, beautiful,
49:15
Speaker 1: beautiful work.
49:16
Speaker 2: Thank you.
49:17
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming today.
49:18
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
49:21
Speaker 1: I am going to i think that was the perfect
49:25
Speaker 1: soul work that you shared just now thanks be with
49:29
Speaker 1: the elements go be with the elements this week see
49:32
Speaker 1: what you notice about them especially when it comes to
49:35
Speaker 1: cycles of change um and the mother and the father
49:39
Speaker 1: and the masculine and the feminine and the destruction and
49:43
Speaker 1: the beauty of all of it. That's all around us
49:45
Speaker 1: all the time. Everything about Shay is connected in the
49:49
Speaker 1: notes below this episode. So please connect with her rising woman.
49:54
Speaker 1: Of course, her books becoming the one is a classic
49:58
Speaker 1: and so loved and then her latest book and offering.
50:01
Speaker 1: So all of it below, check it out. Thank you
50:04
Speaker 1: for listening. We'll be back next week. Namaste. The content
50:11
Speaker 1: presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational and informational purposes.
50:16
Speaker 1: It should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical
50:20
Speaker 1: or mental health guidance and does not constitute a provider-patient relationship.
50:26
Speaker 1: As always, it is advisable to consult with your healthcare
50:29
Speaker 1: provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions
50:34
Speaker 1: that you may have. Connect with me on social, at
50:38
Speaker 1: Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram. Or you can go
50:41
Speaker 1: to my website, debbiebrown.com. And if you're listening to this
50:44
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50:50
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50:53
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and the Black Effect Network. It's
50:56
Speaker 1: produced by Jacquees Thomas, Samantha Timmons, and me, Debbie Brown.
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