Latest / Luke's English Podcast / Joe Rogan Experience _2440 - Matt Damon _ Ben Affleck

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Joe Rogan Experience _2440 - Matt Damon _ Ben Affleck · Luke's English Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Joe Roman podcast check it out.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: But Joe Regan experience train by Day Joe.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: Rogan podcast by Night, all day that's wild.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I went in because I I am me.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: I think I was living at the time, and I
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: went in and uh and uh.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting in the waiting room and it was like
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: on a Sunday because it was I was like, I'm
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: only in town for it. And Stan was like, I'll
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: come into the office. I'm like, thank you so much.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I had to have something, a filling or so whatever
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: I needed. It's a kind of an emergency. So I'm
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: sitting in the thing and uh, and I'm not getting
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: called in, but the ladies is just no, no, there's
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: not even a receptionist.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: And Stan comes out with his masking.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: No.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: The first thing I hear is pig fucker, fucking pig fucker.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, what is happening in there? It's in
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: the other room. And Stan comes into his Maxine.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: He goes, sorry, he goes, I'll be with you soon.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: He goes, I got Hunter in the chair and he
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: goes back and I here listen to to Hunter Thompson
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: swear for like fifteen minutes.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: I'm like this is amazing.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: And then stand goes, Okay, come on back, and Hunter's
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: kind of getting at and.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: He goes, oh, you're sitting down with this guy. He's
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: a fucking assassin.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: And then he goes and he's got this jug of
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: clear uh of clear fluid, and he's like, you're gonna
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: need a sip of this, and I'm like, oh my god,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: this is fucking Hunter s.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Thompson's moonshine. This fucking amazing.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I'm talking to this dude for thirty seconds and I'm
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: getting a sip and like and it was like ten
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: in the morning on a Sunday. Yeah, he happened through
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: the drug Yeah. This in Beverly Hill, Yeah yeah, yeah, Brentwood, Yeah, Brentwood.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's amazing.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: It really was. It was, it was.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: And so I had probably a total of seven minutes,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: you know, with him, and it was like, I could
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I could not have been a better seven minutes.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: That's incredible. I went to the Woody Creek Tavern just
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to go there because I know he used to go there. Yeah,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: and like he could like feel him in the building,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: you know, there's all the pictures in the walls place.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: I mean those books, Hell's Angels and and you know,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Fear and Loathing. It's some of the best writing. I
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: just fucking like he really had his own voice. Rum
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Diary spectacular, you know. It was like really descriptive and
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: punchy and interesting and fucked up. And he also just
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: lived that life.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: It was like, Here and Loathing changed my life. Like
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: reading that book was like, what the fuck, Like, what
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: is this guy to do? Grown men out there, balding,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: grown men with spectacles running around with there's lizards, He's
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: got a day trip bag filled with acid, Like, what
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: the fuck are you doing?
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Man? And it's crude ships like you fucking feel like
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: you're on the adventure with him, you.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah, no, it's a It's it's interesting to watch
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: the evolution of his writing too, you know, like I
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: read Hell's Angels and it's like very different, you know,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: but that's earlier.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: He's kind of restrained, and it was quite like for that,
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I think it was edgy. So for the time, yeah,
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: you're gonna get beaten Shane whipped and stomped by the
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Angel and that was really edgy. And by the time
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: they got to it a fear loading seventy two or
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: something like that.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: He was just yeah, it was gone. It's supposed to
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: be covering a race for like Sports Illustrated.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I fucking lost my mind.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Great, it's great, it's we'll take well. Hey, it's very
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: nice to meet you, guys, I met you before, but
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: very nice. Thank you, very I love the fucking movie
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: is great. It's really good. It's so original, and it's
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: so it's so different, and it's you know, it's like
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I love those kind of movies, but it's not like
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: any one that I've ever seen before. Really solid movie.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Thank you. It was awesome, so much better than you
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: hating it and the interviews so I saw the movie anyway.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: We've had we've had a lot of those, the junk
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: the press junkets where they come in and the first
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: thing that you know, the movie sucks if if they
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: don't ask you anything about the movie, they come in
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: and goes, so, how you been?
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: Oh shit, this is gonna be bad.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Is it weird? Like the transformation of the film industry
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: seems to like a lot of it is moving towards
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: these big streaming movies now.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean, look, it's because where most people have
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: gone to watch them. Yeah, like it used to be
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: the only place you'd go see movies in the forties,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: like every American or the movie every week basically, but
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: it was because it was that or watch the Cows
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: Walk By. You know, it was the only and then
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: TV comes around as little and you see these little cereals.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: But you know what happened was now this is why
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: it's totally changed the whole thing, because you have three
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: hundred million people, three hundred thirty whatever is watching you know, Netflix,
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: and it's a lot harder to get people to go
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: into the movies. There's also YouTube, there's also TikTok, there's
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: also my kids, Like it's hard to get them excited
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: about a movie. Yeah, that's what we had. I mean, yeah,
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: that was out. I mean our teen years were just
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: every weekend we're at the movies. Yeah, there's just no
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: question about it.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: You were gonna go and usually not get into one
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: because there were too many people, and then you just
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: see what else is playing and go to that.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Well, it seems like it was kind of slipping away
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: because so many people were watching streaming already, and then
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: COVID came around and everyone was locked down and no
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: one was going to the movie theater, and then it
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: just said I.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: Had this like drama that was coming out, like right
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: when COVID hit. I like the movie performance. The movie
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: is not an alcoholic guy who's kid kid guys kid
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: dies and comes an alcoholic it's dark movie. But I
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: loved it, and I could tell like, we're fucked. No
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: one's gonna go to see the theater see this movie.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't even that streaming. Streaming really blew up,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: you know, of course during COVID, so you know, look
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: they rushed it onto streaming. People actually saw it. I
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: was like, all things being equal, I like people to
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: see it, you know. And it's not like my dad
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: had an eleven inch black and white TV and that's
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: what was TV viewing. Now it's like two hundred dollars.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: You got a fucking sixty five inch flat screen like
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: and good sound, So of course people are willing to
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: And then streamers also started making great shows. You have adolescents.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: I think that's the most best things ever done.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Like I haven't seen it unraved, what is it?
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's a it's a it's I don't
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: want to spoil too much of it's only four episodes.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: They're all one shot.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: They're all one shot. Each episode is one entire shot.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So the cast they took a I think I talked
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: to the director about that. The cast took I think
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: a week to rehearse each one, a week to shoot it.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: And so so they do it twice a day. It
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: is the full hour they would choreograph the higher stuff.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really and then the acting is.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: But but that's the I mean, just dismiss that even
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: you could even call it a gimmick.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: It's not in this case.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: But the performances and the writing and what it's about,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: it's it's as good as anything you'll see. It's it's phenomenal.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: What is it on Netflix?
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Netflix? You have like it's not It's not even an anomally
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: us Baby Rangers, the fucking Succession, there's games Ozarks.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: It's just like, okay, well they're doing great ship out there.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: It's not like the sort of implied thing before was like, yeah,
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: well TV is not as good, right, as interesting, it's
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: a serious.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: When we started it was there was a I mean
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: like like George Clooney for instance, like there was a
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: big thing, you know, he very famously, you know, became
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: this superstar on er that show, forty million people a
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: week were watching. That show was the biggest thing, right
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: because there were only a few channels to tune into
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: and that show was the biggest one. And and George
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: never renegotiated his contract. He wanted to work in movies,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: and it was like, you can't go from TV to movie.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: It's a very very few people can do it.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: And he really strategically and kind of patiently, Like he
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: joked that on the last episode he was on Anthony Edwards,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: you know, his co star was making a million bucks
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: for the episode and he was making you know, twenty
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: grand or whatever. His deal was, Like he could have renegotiated,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: but he would have had to give more years. How
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: bad he wanted to get off TV, right, movie, that's
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: how bad he wanted to get off of the biggest
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: TV show in the world. Because the there was such a.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Big kind of level change between features and TV.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Well, it was a giant difference in quality. It was
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: also this the breaking it up for commercials. It was
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: just a different it could be.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: You know, there was all these rules like you can't
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: say they just can't do that. I can't swear not
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: allah gain of violence and all things people want to
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: see in movies, you know. And then and also it
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: wasn't it wasn't as interesting. And then now that's a
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: tether to these schedules and all this stuff. Or as
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: you get this ship, like you don't have a schedule
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: and you can take a bunch of risks. So and
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: that started happening, and then it was kind of like, well,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: this is just as good, if not better than what's
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: in the movies.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: And well then movies started to move towards more ip
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: and and because it was hard to get a couple
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: of the movies.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Everyone got scared and thought, well, you have to have
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: to be a sequel or a superhero movie.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: And so an interesting little movie. Kind of in the
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: nineties when we kind of came onto the scene, you know,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: there were a lot of really good independent movies that
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: were being made. There was there was you know, it
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: was a really great time to be making move people were,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: they were making daring movies and and and then everyone
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: just got way more conservative because it's huge, like the
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: business is so different theatrically and streaming, because to put
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: out a movie theatrically you have to put so much
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: more money behind it to publicize, like you're trying to
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: get everybody.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: Spending about what the budget was to make it, to
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: advertise because you have eighty percent of the theatric because.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: You split it with the movie house right through the
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: exhiit of twenty five million dollar movie to break even,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: gotta make a hundred million dollars and so, and you
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: got to get everybody to not only know about the movie,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: but to show up like that Friday night, like that
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: specific time, you know, for that specific movie and so,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: and to cut through all the noise that your people
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: are contending with.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: And you know, it just becomes about risk, and he
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: wants to take the risk. So they don't want to
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: make something new because it's such an investment. We're gonna
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: lose our fucking money. And the streamers have stepped into
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: that and like, no, you know, you're not going to
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: have a star. You could try something more interesting or
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: didn't have to be a superhero movie whatever it was.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: And also I think it's like, you know, frankly, like
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: people my age, like it's first of all, it's expensive, right,
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: you take your old family, it's one hundred dollars. You're
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: on a streaming service twenty dollars a month. You can
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: watch all you want, so you can't be cavalier about
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: like you're just gonna price it whatever the fuck you
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: want and expect everyone to like be indifferent to that.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: And then and you know, also you know the idea
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: of like for me, you know, there's a lot of
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: stuff I make that decision, like do I want to
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: see the Odyssey on a big screen? Fucking death? I
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: went to the theater to just watch the trailer for
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: that movie, and you know, did I at one battle
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: after another? I wanted to go see in the theater.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: But there's movies and people that I really like and
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: respect where Yeah, and I got a good system and ship.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: But I'm like, look, I'll watch and I might get tired.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: I won't pause it and take a piss or the kids,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: you know, whatever it is that's conducive to my lifestyle,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: you know, and so.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And most people I think most people are. Yeah, but
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: there is the experience of seeing it with a bunch
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: of other people. And see a movie with a bunch
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: of other people, it's like a shared experience.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: I always like a way.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: More like like when I went to see One Battle
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: on Imax, like you know, that feeling, there's nothing like
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: that feeling. I took, you know, two of my kids
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: and two of my nephews and my wife and we
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: all went and it was just it was like and
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: you're in with you know, a bunch of strangers people
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: in your community, and.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: You're having this experience together.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I always say, it's more like going to going to church,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Like you show up at an appointed time, you know
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: what I mean, It doesn't wait for you, you know,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: versus the the experience of watching at home. I think
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: you know, you're watching in a room, the lights are on,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: other shit's going on, the kids are running around, the
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: dogs are running around, whatever it is, you know what
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: I mean. It's just a very different level of attention
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: that you're willing to or that you're able to give
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: to it. And that has a big effect, and it
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: also ends up having an effect or is starting to
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: have an effect on how you make movies, like for instance, Netflix,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: you know, standard way to make an action movie that
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: we learned was, you know, you usually have like three
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: set pieces, one in the first act, one on the second,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: one on the third, and you know, you kind they
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: kind of ramp up and the big one with all
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: the explosions, and you spend most of your money on
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: that one in the third act.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: That's your kind of finale.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: And now they're you know, they're like, can we get
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: a big one in the first five minutes to get somebody?
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: You know, we want people to stay tuned in and
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: ken And you know, it wouldn't be terrible if you
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: reiterated the plot three or four times in the dialogue,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: because people are on their phones while they're watching, you
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: know what I mean. And so then it's gonna really
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: start to infringe on creatively. Yeah we're talking, but.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Then you look at our lessons and didn't do anything,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: didn't do anything. It's fucking great, you know what I mean.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: So I think it's it's dark too. It's tragic and
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: intensest like guy who finds out these kids accused of
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: murder and it's like, you know, and and there's long
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: shots in the back of their head. They get in
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: the car, nobody says anything. I think there are those
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: look the wish feel like that.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: You know, it's so masterfully made that it feels a
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: little more like the accept I hope it's not.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: My feeling is just that it demonstrates that you don't
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: need to do any of that ship to get people,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like and I think you know, yes,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: you know, like look, hey, the town had the actions
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: in the first five minutes, because you know what I mean,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Like it's a it's a common trick that you would
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: go like, let me grab them and get them invested in.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: It's like the movies that start with the hero hanging
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: from the cliff and now we're gonna flash back to
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: the beginning and tell you how they got there. It's
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: you know, I always feel like, you know, complaining about
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: it makes me feel like one of these guys was
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: like why I was a boy, like you always want
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: to freeze the culture at the time when you I
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: don't know, felt more like, you know, we don't used
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: to have these phones. The phone and everything's looking I
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: get it. Yes, it's true. Also, it's like supplying to
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: the man. People want to look at their phone and
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: they can look at TikTok they want, you know, they're
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: gonna do that. I think what you can do is
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: makes it the best. You can make it really good,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: and you know people can still go to the movie.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: It's not like we have this idea of that's like
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: an existential threat. Everything that comes along is gonna destroy
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: everything instead of like what history suggests is that there's
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: like marginal encroachments. Things shift. Yep. As television came along,
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: there was less theater going and that's still gonna happen,
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: and people are still gonna go to the movies because
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: of what you said, like it feels like a cool
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: thing to do. I'm gonna go see The Odyssey. I
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: guarantee you in a theater, you know, no matter what
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: fewer of them, and you could argue best because I
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: have more choice or whatever it is. It's hard to
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: fight supply and demand. That's the trick, right If people
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: will want to watch a bunch of stuff at home
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: because they invested in TVs and truss us money, they will,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: so okay. But the upside of that is, like I
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: can try to do something hopefully that's like that actually
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: doesn't need to you know, have the most urgency to
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: get you to come to the theater with your family
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: that's a little more experimental orrisk taking or whatever. In
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: that way, Well, you gotta adapt.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way you're going to change people's
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: viewing habits now. I mean, what percentage of Netflix is
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: actually watched on phones? Is they got to be pretty high,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: which is insane.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Even once you're gonna laptop. For me, it's kind of
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: like kind of sucks, you know, it sucks.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: That's a joke that I like to make with every
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: director I work with, Like when they're really puzzling over
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: a shot or really grinding out something, I go, you know,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: it's not gonna look as good on the phone. Just
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: everyone gets angry their fucking sales.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: You know, no, that's gonna look great. This fucking bigs
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: but keep sucking around of lighting that well.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: It is weird though, the concern for the algorithm like
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: making sure that people watch like, look, we've got data
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: that shows within the first five minutes when this happens,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: they tune out. So let's like my buddy Tony Hinchcliff,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you know, he's got to kill Tony. And now it's
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: on Netflix, and so they're giving them notes now and
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: they can give him like yeah, but they're not telling
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: him what to do. But they're saying like this is
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: when people are tuning out, and so let's you know,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: just so you have that data now decide how you
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: want to edit things. It's like, oh yeah, and which
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: is slow.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: It is because because the it's like the the bar
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: for walking out of a movie theater is a lot
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: higher than from just changing the channel right. And oftentimes,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: you know, you directors will want to make a movie
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: that is challenging and upsetting. And I remember Terry Kenney,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: my friend, great actor, and he he told me about
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: the experience of seeing Taxi Driver in New York for
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: the first time, right in seventy six or whenever it
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: came out, And he said, what I remember, he's not
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: only the movie, but I remember standing at the back
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: because I had got up. I got up out of
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: my seat and I went but I couldn't bring myself
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: to leave because I was so invested. But I was,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: so he goes. I was standing at the back by
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: the door watching the movie, and he goes, and there
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: were two other people standing next to me who were
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: doing the same thing just because they were disturbed because
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: the movie was disturbing them so much.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: Wow, which is not a bad thing, right.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: So I had that been on on Netflix or Amazon,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: you know, if somebody's oh I'm disturbed, and they turned
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and they changed the channel. Yeah, Like that doesn't mean
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't make taxi.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Driver, right, that's true. Like the investment of going to
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: a place is much greater.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And one of the values of that is that
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: you could look at movies from the seventies, it is
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: the first act is twenty five thirty minutes, right, you
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: know the verdict for a great movie. It takes a
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: long time to get the door hunter. Oh yeah, I
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: mean it's and and you're right, like what you're saying.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: The threshold for walkout is really like any scene like, ah,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: I want to watch naked alone. You know, you flip
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: the fucking so you're you are battling that and you know.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I watched Lemons the other night, Steve McQueen, and there's
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: no one talks for like five minutes. There's no talking.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: It's just a bunch of stuff getting done, just a
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: bunch of people doing things, and it's like, Wow, you
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: could make it different, you could let it air out.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Back then, Yeah, it was they had a different respect
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: for what it was, like you were telling a story
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna let it air out.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Well, they also knew where their audience was, yeah, were
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: in a theater that they have.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Part of it was I wanted to come there. I mean.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: The Grist story I like is the first time they
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: they debuted a movie Guys with a with a projector
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: in a room full of people. It was a it
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: was a movie of a train pulling into the station.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: So they put the reel up and they did demonstrate
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: and they showed the people and everybody missed it because
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: they were turned around staring at the projector and they
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: never seen anything like that. You know. It's like the
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: technology is upstaging. But like you come for an event,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: come for a thing, We're all gonna be here. That's
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: part of it. It's I don't know, there's competing argument.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: So you can think, well what do you get to do?
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: And some people just go and fuck it. Like if
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Jim Camer's an avatar, I'm gonna make my three hour
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: movie and people are gonna calm and great, you know
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: what I mean, And people say, oh, well, you can't
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: have a three hour movie, and he's like, well, i'm
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: camera and I've actually got the number one end too,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: and you know movies, I think I got this. He
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: goes ahead and does it. You know, this history is
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: full of people who got told a bunch of conventional
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: wisdom and we're like, yeah, but we're gonna do something different,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: and as it turns out, like that's actually what people
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: want too. Is not for you. Just repeat the other
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: shit that's been done before, that worked before.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Visible. Have you
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• 19:07
  Speaker 1: for planned features and network management details. One of the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: things I read that I thought was really fucking cool
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: is you guys set it up so that if this
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: film performs well, the entire crew gets bonuses. Yeah that's awesome.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully success.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: If it doesn't, it's a great movie. Man, it's a
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: fun movie, but it's it's it's good.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: But it's not like you know, fucking we're saying through philanthropists,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: like it is completely self serving in my opinion, because
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: in order to do the job well, everybody who's working
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: on has to be really invested and give a shit
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: about the result, not their paycheck only. And sometimes you
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: wear the crew that just happened to be great anyway,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: even though they don't really have to care about it,
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: and they do what we saw was like that makes
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: your movie better. And then there's just the thing of
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: like the business is changing, you see these strikes and
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: workstops is all this fucking questions, and we're for this,
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: I think, to survive and to be you know, a
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: good middle class fucking artists, you know, artisanal craftsman job.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: We've got twelve hundred people that you know, need to
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: have reliable jobs. And part of the negotiations is always
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: like yeah, yeah, yeah, but we're all gonna get fucked,
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: like we have no participation, like used to working on
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: movies and t happens to actors too. Where you go, Oh,
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: we all investigated, it was really hard, and we fucking
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: put in the extra effort. Somebody else walked away with
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: all the success. And you know, my theory was with
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: Mad was we were like, how about where let's say, okay,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: it's just fairness, right, if this thing actually blows up
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: and does really well, you should benefit from that. People
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: have been you know, kind of given sort of promises
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: of participation and back and haven't come true. So this
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: is like the everyone got their rates, everyone got their hourly,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: no one cut anything. This is just an exercise and
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: actually proving that it's not bullshit that if their success,
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: you'll get some extra little success, a little extra, a
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: little more, a little more.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Like you said, because it's fair, you know. And and
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: and in success, the people who made the movie should
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: you know, should participate in that. And and also with
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: this one, which was important to us, there's you know,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: they they delineate above the line and below the line,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: right like above the line being like us the director
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: and the kiss, and below the line being kind of
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: the more blue collar side of our industry.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: And and like painters, grainsmen, camera be able to everybody
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: else with drivers, and.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: So we just wanted we believe Like when we started
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: this company, we were like, look, you know, we know
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: who makes our movie better. Right, It's not it's it's
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: like they've this has kind of been mispriced the whole time,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Like the economics have been wrong. Like when there's a
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: when there's a big success, everybody who had a hand
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: on it.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Because you see a great director that people rely on
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: or an actor that's considered bank well, they're all going, okay,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: I need all my people.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: With Yeah, every great director I've worked with, and I've
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: worked with a lot of them, they have their regular
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: crew members. They that I ride or die with these
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: people because I mean, and you said it to me
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: when we were starting company, you were like, you know
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: those department heads you know who are each handling like
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: you know cinemataz, you know your camera department, you know
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: your grip department. You're electric like these this those people
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: are ultimately the people who make the movie good.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: Like they make a demonstrable difference in how good your
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: movie is.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: And imagine once you get a good flow with a
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: great crew, like you got the band, Yeah, like there's
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: no need to bring in new band members, so let's
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: do this again.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because they and then like you have the situation
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: where they all are filmmakers too. Everybody knows what we're
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: trying to do, So like, then what makes it? You know,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: you're trying to get something special, something interesting, things fucking magical.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: In some moment you have to like if people are tight,
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: or they're been a shape or you know, fucks up
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: the environment. People aren't relaxed, actors can't do their best work,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: and that does make a difference between something that's good, average, great, whatever.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: And I think that if you say, like, you know,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: it makes cognitive sense to people. But if you look around,
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: like it was Colin Anderson camera operty. Right, I'm a cinematographer,
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: but I would tell you he's I think he's the
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: greatest camera operators in Hollywood. And if you want evidence
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: that he shot Marty Supreme, he was a camera opera
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: in one battle after another. You know he's You look
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: at his resume and you're like, oh, that's interesting. These
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: are all fucking great movies. Now is he personally responsible
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: for all? But no, because it's a collaborative medium. There
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: is no like you can be a painter and paint
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: by yourself. You can be a novelist and do that
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: saying write music. You can't do this job alone. Like,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: there are a lot of people that go into it,
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: you know, even Myriels, like Matt was the lead in
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: the last movie I did Air that I directed. Having
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: somebody so fucking good in your movie who also shows up,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: does his job, is friendly, isn't fucking around or playing
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: games or being weird like that sets this tone. Everybody
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: else kind of goes, Okay, well, what's damon? Like, Oh,
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: I see this is we're taking it seriously, but nobody's
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: gonna be a dick. We're all gonna do our job.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: We're not gonna take ourselves too seriously, but we're gonna
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: take the job really seriously. And immediately everybody kind of
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: snaps into that. That trickled onn a fact goes across
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: the whole thing. And I think the best thing that
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: I know how to do as a director is just
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: create an environment where people feel like they show up,
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: people like me, they're rooting for me. I can fucking
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: embarrass myself and be bad and it's not gonna be
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: in the movie. And it was gonna make me feel
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: self conscious and listen to my ideas, and if I
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: have something to offer, they're gonna go, oh, that's a
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: good idea, you know what I mean, And that that's
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: kind of the trick in my view. And then you're
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: depending on the gifts of all these people, every single
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: one of them. You know, guys, was you know some
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: woman's assistant prop master is coming up with like the
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: stuff that you know, Phil Knight found, you know, his
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: waffle from the shoe they found it on eBay. Like
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: that's an extra mile, you know what I mean. If
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: you make people feel like it matters and you give
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: a shit and that they're contributing and oh cool, let's
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: do it close up of that, that's really fucking cool.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: They'll die for you. They'll go all the way and it.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Changes the whole again if you bonus them, you know,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: it's not just all you know, it's there's an action
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: like codified b a structure to say like we this.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Is the way of recognizing that ship. Right. It's like
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: in your paycheck too. That's very real.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: And you guys developed this is this is this is
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: something that you would like. Kudos to you guys for
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: addressing this first of all, and recognizing it and having
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: that attitude because it's so important and it's so easy
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: for big movie stars to just think about themselves and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: their communists.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Joe, we're from Cambridge. Keep the car running.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: No, no, but uh but but each each deal has
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: had this kind of Each deal that we've done so
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: far has been different because we've made deals with the
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: you know, different studios and platforms and stuff like that.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: And then just involved us basically retroactively going hey, we
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: came in under we did a great job. As extra money,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: here you go. This is the first time that we're
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: able to actually create like a schedule where it's like
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: because and by the way, we want to have been
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: able to do that without Netflix going okay, cool, you
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: think you can make this work? Is this We'll give
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: you a shot. Otherwise we would have been able to
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: do it. So we had to say, look, we're not
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: asking you to take a cut, but you know, if
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: if we we can and we can tell you if
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: the movie is watched as many hours in the first
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: ninety days as like this movie a that you all
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: know what it is, then that's you know, twenty percent
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: of your So let's say right, I mean, you just
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: take a hit, so it's like, yeah, you make more money,
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: your bonus is more. It's all just peg to where
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: you're at, just because that was the most fair idea
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: we'd come up.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: So they gave us like five different levels, right, like
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: the first couple week hopefully we can hit, and maybe
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the third maybe we get.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: And then it got to like the fifth.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Kind of like single double triple home run, home run
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: grand The fifth one was was one hundred and ten
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: percent of all Netflix viewers or something like that, So
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: it's everybody who has a Netflix account watches it, and
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: then like ten percent of them watch it again.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: And we were like, oh, that's what happened.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: We were laughing, and then K Pop Demon Hunters came
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: along and actually did that that's the first movie that's
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: ever Jesus.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think a lot of autistic kids watch
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: that over and over and over.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen I haven't seen it, but I mean
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: somebody's watching it over and over.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so dude, people love it.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: I mean it's you know, the value of it is
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: because before this one of the big things and everybody's
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: fighting over in the strike is like, well, share your shit.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: There used to be residuals, right, and residuals and it
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: was only for SAG and a few of the things.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: But it was like and you knew if you had
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: a line in the movie, and then we did a
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: certain number, like at the box office, well you're gonna
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: get another two thousand bucks. And that was a big
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: deal to get that check in the mail, and like, okay,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: I get pay the rent for another month and I
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: can do that shit. But then then there was this
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: like sort of ill what constitutes success because Streamer doesn't
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: actually sell another ticket if you watch that movie, right,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: it's hard to tell, well, why did you sign up
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: for this service? Right? So for a while, everyone's looking
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: at the first thing that you looked at when you
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: subscribe to somebody. Okay, you're gonna go buy Hulu. What
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: did you watch first? The Bear? Well, the bear must
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: be creating value for us, but it's you can't assign
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: a strict numerical value to it because it's like a
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: box office where you can go, oh, you know, Oppenheimer's
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: a billion dollars or whatever, and you know, that's another
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: billion dollars on our balance sheet. Because streamers are doing
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: a subscription mode. You know, it's you know, whether it's
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: like a gym membership, where in the fucking you know,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: first of the year, you're like, I'm gonna work out again,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna buy that annual membership and you go twice,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: or you go to the gym every single day, you're
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: paying the same amount.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Also, the weird thing is with streaming. When you're opening
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: up Netflix, it's not like you're going to the movie
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: theater and there's seven movies playing. You're opening up Netflix
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and you have an unlimited option list. It's insane how
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: much content you could waste the rest of your life
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: sitting in front of Netflix and then die and have
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: you know, millions of hours more to listen to or watch.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: And you're right, like when we'd start researching that and
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: built our own data to poll people and examine all
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: this stuff, it's it's actually all the library stuff that
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: people are watching all the time. If you said, like
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: the new stuff is theoretically what keeps people with the
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: subscription or whatever, but in terms of like volume of time,
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: I think it doesn't come from them. But it looks
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: a lot like you know, you're gonna watch like Orange
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: and Black and the episode of Suits and the old
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Seinfeld and Friend and what you know, Cupcake Wars or
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: you know that. That's what's because Americans watched six hours
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: of TV day, right.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: That's crazy, and then the other six hours are on
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: their phone. They get done. How does anything get done
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: when you started to make this film, like what what
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: is the process?
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: How did you guys agree on it? Like what did
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: you guys have it written?
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: First was Joe? Joe?
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: So before you knew you were going to Netflix with it?
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he came to us with the script.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And we've known Joe for a really he did a movie.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: His first movie was called Nark. I don't know if
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: you ever saw Terrific. So we met him way back
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: this twenty five years ago or something like that. And
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: so we met him, met him back then, and Bend
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: did a movie of his four I think, And so
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: we've known Joe for a really long time and kind
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: of been in touch with him over the years. And
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: and he just sent this to us and said we
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: read it and we thought it was great and and
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: and and bought it.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: For the company.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: And then we started talking to Joe about you know,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: how he saw you know how he wanted to do it,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and and he suggests, did that we actually do the movie?
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: And we and we were like, yeah, why don't we
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: do it? It seems basically because we liked it and
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: we're not trying to just do our movies. We want
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: to be you know, doing movies with all these the
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: people that we like and respect and and and then
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: you know, the way we sort of set it up
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: as such that to try to get like the historically
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: the way it's worked is like the you know, a
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: studio will own an ib or a script or whatever,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: and then you cut and they'll say, okay, we want
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: you to do it. Okay, well how much? Well how
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: much do you get to the last one? Right? And
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: you go and what's the budget? And then that's how
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: they assign a value to it. Right. But like my
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: belief was, well, especially when these streams were coming into
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: the market and chasing stuff, is like this movie may
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: may be worth more, it may be worth less, and
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: that like we're all just subject to that. So we'll
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: try to get the best price for it and we'll
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: all share it, you know, pro rata, And essentially that
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: that was the same process we've done eight I guess
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: movies or so now, and we took it out and
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: you know, people wanted it. And then one of the
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: things that was the appealing about Netflix was that they
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: were open to this, this idea that we've been trying
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: to institutionalize. It was like, okay, great, that's that's really
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: meaningful because ideally it becomes a template to other people
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: go hey, we want to do that thing, you know,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: and I mean, go, oh, here's the paper.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. Like a lot of people say
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: that they would want to do it. But now now
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: that template exists, so it's like plug and play. So
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: if you if you're not full of shit and you
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: really do mean that, then guess what, just take this.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: And and it also is going to let you, you know,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: I hope, like manage the risk. In other words, the
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: argument you always have is like, well, shit, we gott
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: to invest all this money in the movie, so you
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: can't have your protagonist be too objectionable, that's too edgy,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: or can't be r raided because it costs this. I
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: get it right. You're gonna put all your money into it.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: You want it. You don't want money to fucking disappear.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: You want to make money. Okay. So like when we
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: wrote the first movie that We're Good One Hunting, it
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: was like we knew that had to be a cheap
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: movie people talking in rooms to each other because it's
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: gonna put a bunch of money into the movie no
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: one heard of. So I was like, Okay, what can
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: we do that's interesting that and try to keep it
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: as inexpensive as possible so that we can make the
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: argument that someone should make the movie. That same logic
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: like carries through every time you're asking somebody to invest
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: in something. So what I'd like to have happen is
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: to say, Okay, now that we know there's a reliable
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: system where we understand that like in success will actually benefit,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: we can lower you know, the price up front for
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: you so that you can have a low fucking barriered
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: entry so that you can take through its so that
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: we can do something really interesting that's that's an original idea,
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: that's a you know, that's an Omenamer or Sinners or
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: a Marty Supreme or whatever it is. And and then
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: if it's successful, we're not all sitting here like assholes
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: where you know, you guys walk off with all the money.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: But and you can have that happen in an ongoing
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: way so that you can make more interesting stuff.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: A lot of those stuff that was going on with
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: the strikes was centered around AI and what AI is
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: going to do to the business, Like where do you
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: feel is going to be? Like the biggest problem with
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: AI is it going to be with people's like is
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot of that where want they want
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: to use extras and own their digital rights forever essentially
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: be able to recreate them in any kind of film.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: But then there's also you're gonna have films that are
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: written by artificial intelligence. You're gonna have scenes that don't
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: involve people, and it gets weird, right, it gets really weird.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: But like, yeah, we've been spending time looking at this,
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Like my belief is sort of like what's gonna happen
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: with electricity? Well, a lot of shit it's gonna happen
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: with electricity. Some of it's gonna be good, something's gonna
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: change stuff. Some of it's gonna be like you know,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: it's going to be you know, shit that kills a
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: bunch of people. Like it's it's it's opening a door
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: that you can't you know, say, well you talk about
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: in a kind of a blanket way. But I think
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: with what I see is, for example, if you try
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: to get chat GBT or Claude or Gemini or write
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: you something, it's really shitty. And it's shitty because by
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: its nature it goes to the mean to the average,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: and it's and it's not reliable, and it's I mean,
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: I just can't stand to see it writes. Now, it's
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: a useful tool if you're a writer and you're going, ah,
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: what's the thing. I'm trying to set something up where
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: somebody sends someone a letter but it's delayed two days
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: and gets and it can give you some examples of that.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: I actually don't think it's very likely that it can
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: it's going to be able to write anything meaningful or
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: and in particular, that it's gonna be making movies like
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: from hole Cloth like Tilly normal, Like that's bullshit. I
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: don't think that's gonna happen. I think it's not. I
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: think it actually turns out the technology is not progressing
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: in exactly the same way they sort of presented it.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: And really what it is is gonna be a tool
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: just like sort of visual facts, and yeah, it needs
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: to have language around it. You need to protect your
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: name and likeness. You can do that. You can water
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: market your those laws already exist. You can't. I can't
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: sell your fucking picture for money. I can't you consume
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: me period. I might have the ability to draw you,
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: to make you in a very realistic way, but that's
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: already against the law. And the unions are gonna I
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: think the guilds are going to manage this where it's like, okay,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: look if this is a tool that actually helps us,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: For example, we don't have to go to the North Pole, right,
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: we can shoot the scene here in our parkas and
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: you know, whatever it is, and but then make it
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: appear very realistically as if we're in the North Pole.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: It don't save us a lot of money a lot
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: of time. We're gonna focus on the performances and not
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: be freezing our ass up out there and running back inside.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: That's useful, just like Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn used
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: to be like driving their car and the wind blowing
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: a painting behind them and look, goofy and you know
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: now you know in computer generate people use a lot
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: of computer generated stuff, and some of it is going
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: to replace just that, like instead of five hundred guys
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: in Singapore, you know, making two dollars an hour to
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: render all the graphics for a superhero movie, there's going
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: to be able to do that a lot easier. There's
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: already laws around and guild guidelines around, like how many
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: union extras you have to use. But also we've been
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: tiling extras like there weren't a million Orcs and Middle Earth,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean? In Victis, there weren't all
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: those people in the stadium, Like that's something we've been doing.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: It kind of feels to me like thing we're talking
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: about where there's a lot more fear because we have
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: the sense that existential dread it's gonna wipe everything out.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: But that actually runs counter in my view to what
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: history seems to show, which is a adoption is slow,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: it's incremental. I think a lot of that rhetoric comes
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: from people who are trying to justify valuations around companies,
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: where they go, we're gonna change everything in two years.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: There's gonna be no more work. The reason they're saying
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: that is because they need to ascribe evaluation for investment
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: that can warrant the cape spend they're gonna make on
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: these data centers, with the argument that like, oh, you know,
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: as soon as we do the next model, it's gonna
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: scale up, it can be three times as good, except
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: that actually chat Gap five about twenty five times percent
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: better than CHATCHYPT four and costs about four times as
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: much in the way of electricity and data. So those
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: and they say that it's like plateauing the early AI
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: the line went up very steeply and it's now sort
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: of leveling off. I think it's because and yes, it'll
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: get better, but it's gonna be really the expensive to
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: get better, And a lot of people are like, fuck this,
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: we want you agdfour because it turned out like the
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: vast majority of people who use AI are using it
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: to like as like companion bots to chat with at night,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: and so there's no work, there's no productivity, there's no
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: value to it. I would argue there's also not a
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: lot of social value to getting people to like focus
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: on an AI friend who's you know, telling you that
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: you're great and listening to everything you say and being sickophantic.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: That's sort of a side issue I think for this
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: particular purpose, like the way I see the technology and
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: what it's good at and what it's not. It's going
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: to be good at filling in all the places that
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: are expensive and burden something that may get harder to
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: do it, and it's always going to rely fundamentally on
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: the human artistic aspects of it.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the more it becomes ubiquitous, the more
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: people are going to appreciate real things that are made
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: by real people. You know, like you're you still appreciate
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: a handmade table. You know, you're gonna appreciate Like did
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: you see the beast in me Claire Danes?
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I didn't.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard it was great.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: That lady who's terrific.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Who when she's in a scene, you're just like Jesus Christ, great,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: like you like her fucking lips are quivering, like you
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: believe everything that she sang.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: That You're right, people want that you can't.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I said, like, I did this interview with with Dwayne Johnson,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: because they you know, they when people are in these
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: awards things, they sometimes have other actors interview them, you know.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: And I did this interview with Dwayne and and and
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I asked him, there's this scene in the Smashing machine
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: where where he's overdosed on drugs and his buddy comes
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: to see him in the hospital and and it really
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: walloped me this scene. I thought it was so great
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: and and I asked him and I was just like,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: can you just tell me about this scene, Like, did
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Benny Benny Saftie directed it?
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: Did Bennie write there's write that? Did you work on
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: that scene with them? Did you?
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: He goes, no, we we actually worked on it together.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: And I go, but how did that scene come to be?
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: And Dwayne goes, well, my father was an alcoholic and
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I don't remember if you said substance abuse or alcohol,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: but I didn't know the man. I don't want to
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: impune him, but but he had he had a substance issue,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: whatever it was. He goes, and and when he would
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: talk to me, you know, that's how he would defend himself.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: He was almost a bargaining thing because there's a thing
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: when this guy comes to him, he's overdosed. And Dwayne's
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: amazing in the scene. He's going like he's going like.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't it crazy?
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: And then I woke up, and I mean I could
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: hear him, but I couldn't really hear him, and you
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: see him and he's kind of tap dancing, and his
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: friend finally kind of holds his feet to the fire,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: and at that moment, Dwayne literally starts to burst into
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: tears and just pulls the hospital sheet up over his head.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: And it's like and it's and it's I mean, it's
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: just it was I'm not doing it justice if you haven't,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know you've seen it yet, but he said, yeah.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: So he explains that about his father, and then he
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: goes and and when my mom was diagnosed with stage
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: three lung cancer, I was with her when the oncologist
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: came in and she was lying in the hospital bed,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: and when he gave her the news.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: She pulled the sheet up over her head and I
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: looked at her and she just looked like a little
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: like a little kid, you know, And I was like,
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: all right.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Like so that, right, is two traumatic events from this
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: guy's life, right from his life experience, and the actor
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: in him right sees this scene, goes into his memory,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: pulls these two things out, understands that they're appropriate for
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: this scene and he can marry them together in the scene,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: and then he goes and performs it that way. And
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: a dude walking in off the road goes to the movies,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: sees this, understands somehow that it's fucking real.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: I didn't know why.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: That's why I wanted to ask him how did that
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: scene come to be? I genuinely didn't know and made
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: me tear up. And you know, like that is there's
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: no fucking AI can do that.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: No, it's a whole lot more than photo realistic images. Yeah, yeah,
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: that you you could. You could.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: You could have an AI understand Dwayne's face and move
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: his face into different No, everything could ever do.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: That the complications of real life experiences.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: That is a completely human that is a that is
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: an artist. That's a piece of art that comes out
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: of a lived human experience.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: That movie gave me so much anxiety. There's moments where
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Emily Blunt is that movie.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: I said, I really said, I'd like that. I think
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I think that's the best she's ever been. I love
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: you know, we live in the same building in New York.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: She's like a very dear friend of mine and I
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: and I I was like, I really think that's the
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: best she's ever been. And then I said, and then
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I blurted that out to Kris Nolan and and he
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: kind of stopped and looked at me like he didn't
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: say it, but he was kind of like, she's pretty
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: fucking good in my movie too.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Well, she's a great period, she's a great period. But
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: there's something about that.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I knew Mark a new Mark from I met Mark
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: in ninety seven when he was fighting in the UFC,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: so I knew the whole journey of him. And I
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: was so happy for Dwayne because it was a film
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: where instead of being this fucking superhero, blockbuster hulk of
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: a man, he gets to be that but be a
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: great actor. And you know, you can't really get a
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: person to look like that, to express emotions and express
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: and he was Mark Kerr. If you know Mark, I
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: mean it was fucking great actor.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: I completely forgot it was him.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: And somebody who had seen it before it told me
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: that was gonna happen, and I was like, all right,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: we'll see.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: And it was like from the second it started.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: It didn't get the credit it deserved in terms of
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: like the amount of people that went to see it,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: But I think overall, in time people will appreciate that. Yeah,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: because it's a movie about Mma, So a lot of
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: people are like, I don't want to see a movie
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: about a bunch of fucking meatheads. But it's not.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: It's just a.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Movie that happens to be around m a MMA. But
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: it's in a great movie. The scenes are.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Fun looking, fantastic, fantastic.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Acting is so good and the right and even the
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: fight scenes they're so realistic. Man, it's really like they
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I saw all those fights. They've recreated those fights about
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: as good as you can get, and just his crazy
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: struggle and you know the story. But behind the documentary,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: The Smashing Machine, No. So The Smashing Machine was made
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: when Mark was at the height of his powers and pride,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: and he was the most terrifying guy in the world.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: He was two hundred and sixty five pounds of solid muscle,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: just blowing through people. Didn't even look like a human being.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Everyone was terrified him. No one knew he was a
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: drug addict, no one knew, and he spiraled out as
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: they were filming, and he let them film him, let
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: them film him shooting up, let them film him like
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: bringing his giant bag of pills with him and all
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: his shit everywhere and just completely falling apart while they
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: were supposed to be capturing this hero movie of the
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: greatest fighter in the world. He's falling apart, like live
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: front of the documentary. It was fucking amazing documentary. I see,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: it's really good. But I was so happy that they
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: put it in a film, and I was so happy
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: that it gave Dwayne a vehicle to show what he's
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: really capable of because he's so limited by a lot
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: of just the parameters of the roles that he was in.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and by and by like galactic success. Yes, right,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: I mean it's it's it's it's he he has. He
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: had to and will continue to have to push for that,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: right because it's what he wants. Yeah, and not because
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: what because what what they're going to continue to want
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: him to do is you know the thing that that
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: that mints them money.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I suspect that his experience and feeling about this movie.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: From the conversations I've had with him, Yeah, this, this is,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: this is this has changed him.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's it's this thing that these superhero
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: guys have to do where it's like something has to
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: change because otherwise you're going to be boxed and with
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: a guy that looks like that it's so easy to
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: put him in that box. And so you see him
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: now he's thinner, he's lost a lot of weight. Dave
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Bautista went through a very similar thing, right, Right, he
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: wanted to be he wanted to have more range, wanted
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: to have, you know, more opportunities to do exciting and different,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: challenging things.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I think also coming from where he came from, right,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: it's like you talk about going from TV to movies
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: in the old days. Try coming from wrestling to it
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: to like the biggest movie star in the world. Right,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: it's very It's like, it's incredible that he did that,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: and now he's in this place where he's got this
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: leverage as because he's so beloved and you know that
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: that he can kind of tailor the tailor.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: What he wants from from here on. As hard to
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: bring the audience with you, right, No, No, I know
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: you like this thing, but let me let me show
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: you something else. You know, it's sort of like you
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: are the concert. The band wants to play the new songs,
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: you know, little gilded games, fucking satisfaction. No, I love
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: the song too, you know, my my acoustic thing that.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't Yeah, I went to see the Stones and
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: when they were here in town, and there was a
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: few songs they played that were like new songs. Oh really,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: See the audience is like, okay, yeah, that's well. I mean,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: but you know, every artist, I guess has to make
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: that choice, and he's made it. And it was amazing
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: vehicle too, because he still kept that superhuman hulkish frame
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: and then but also showed like god, there's like amazing
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: depth there.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, And that's the thing that's I think,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: especially because it's a's collaborative. It happens with other people.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: That's what movies do that other shit doesn't do. It's
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: just just create like you feel for people. It's empathy.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: It's all made up, right, that's not him, it's it's
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: all it's all a Losi, all bullshit. But if you
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: do it really well with like you know, somebody that
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: seems to really be feeling something like all of a sudden,
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: I think what it does. It touches like these things
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: in ourselves. You know, it has that same fact that
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Dwayne went through of articulate to you about like these
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: moments that were kind of burned into his memory. Then
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: really the best movies are kind of almost blank screens
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: that we project our own fucking like, oh yeah, I
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: my father died, or I don't through this with my kid,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: or I'm fucking I feel fucking alone and and and miserable,
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: and here's this like hopeful moment that someone has, go
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: maybe I can, maybe I can do something. You know,
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: they inspire you, they touch you, they move you. And
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: the thing to go for the other thing is, you know,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: it's a is to tell the lighter story, to go
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: through the more typical sort of tropes of it all.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: And it's a either way, you're in somebody else's perspective
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: for a few years. Yeah, and hopefully it breeds compassion.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Well, when it's done right, there's a magic to it
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: where you forget that it's happening and you're there when
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: and the most amazing trick is when it's done by
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: famous people. You know, I was talking to Ethan Hawk
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: about this, is that there's a scene with him and
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon when in that movie with Julia Roberts about
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: the end.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: Of the world. I forget that right right, yeah tomorrow, yeah.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Tomorrow or something. People find it. But it's a great,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: great fucking movie. But there's this scene where he's trying
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: to get he's talking to Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon's got
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: a gun to him, and it's so fuck I know
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: that's Kevin Bacon. I know that's Ethan Hawk. It doesn't matter,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: like you're fucking locked in. You're locked in. You're like,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: oh shit, that's the magic. And and he was like,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: but I'm locked in too, Like that's it's like a hypnosis.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: It's like everybody is in the scene in a very
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: bizarre way, like you you have the lines, but you're
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: living it and so and that's either done or it's
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: not done. And when it's not done, you could tell
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: someone's kind of just performative watching.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, if it does that thing and it pulls in, yeah,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: then it's happening.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: That's the magic of film.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: And sometimes you trick people, I guess. But for the
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: most part, of the most part, you're feeling it and
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: it's really happening. It's much more like other human beings
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: experiencing real shit. Yes, they they mirrors, Like I know
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: what sorrow looks like without having the fucking I can't
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: break it down for you or I even you know you,
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: we all know kind of what like, oh, he's a
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: little anxious right now, or did I maybe offend him?
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: Or you know, all these little things and when something
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: like in the rare moments when these big feelings or
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: things happen, you feel it too, you know, and you
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: usually like an example is this is old saying about
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: like you know, actors try to cry. People try not
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: to cry, like because when you're really experiencing that shit,
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: you don't want people to see it. You want to
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: hide it. You want to know I'm okay, I'm fine.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: You know, it's like you want to pull the sheet up.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Except But the other thing that's really interesting from from
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: our side of doing it, because he and I have
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: talked about this a lot, is and I've always said
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: publicly like great actors are good enough for both of you. Like,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: when you're in a scene with a great actor, that
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: thing that Ethan's talking about, that hypnosis or whatever you
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: want to call that energy, that that place where you
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: go right the tractor beam, they will suck you right
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: in with them, and like as quickly as you look
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: into their eyes and you're like you're like just there
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: and it's like and it's not like it's like riding
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: the easiest wave you've ever ridden in your life.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Hmmm.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: You know, it can be the hardest thing in the world,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: and it can be the easiest thing in the world
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: when you're with a great actor.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: It just it's just if the scenes. Yeah, that's the
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: real paradox is like all this stuff that I'm the
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: most proud of, the weird thing about us, has felt
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: very easy at that time. And the ship where you're
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: banging your head against the wall, trying to get blood
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: from a stone and killing yourself, the whole thing, and
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: it just and it ends up fucking feeling empty. And
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: the thing about the stuff that I'm proud of is
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: my insecurity is like should be harder than this, right
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: are we are? We work hard enough, you know, and
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: learn to kind of just trust that go it feels good,
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: Let's just keep going. You know.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Well, there's some scenes in this movie, without giving too
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: much way, where there's conflict between you two guys. It
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: seems so real and that's even harder to recreate because
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you guys are good friends and you're making the movie
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: together and you've got this scene where you're acting in
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: this and with the conflict with the two of you
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: guys the movie, but it's very fucking real.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: The reason that it was real that I like that scene,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: the reason it's it works, I think, is because he's
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: coming at me and he's he really needs to know something,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: and I'm completely blanking him, like I'm just He's going,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: you gotta.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: Tell me what's going on? Man. He's like it's also
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: like what what is going what.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Is the thing?
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: And and I'm just like literally kind of blanking him
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: in this bizarre way, which which like was really frustrating
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: him in real life because he was that feeling of
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: like it's fucking tell me, dude, it's you, and like
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: he finally goes it screams out, I don't trust you
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: right now. That's a fucking problem, right, which is like
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: what you would say to an old friend, like what
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: are you doing?
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: Man? Like what what what are you doing? Like telling
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: the betrayal is the truth and like step outside our
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: whole relationship and all of a sudden, just act.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Like give me this weird look of just like I
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: don't know, you know, Like and so we were doing
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: the scene. It was really fucking busy.
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: I could see him like getting it was the one
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: line that wasn't written that I saw that I didn't
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: remember doing. Was I would have never fucked you like that.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: I would have never fucked you like this yeah, which
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: I didn't even remember saying the drors I like that
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: that keep that thing. I wouldn't have fucked you, and
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: I was I thought, I was like, what is? He thought?
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: What did I? And I so watched the playback. It
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: was in those rare moments again it was like where
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: it was that thing of you doing all the work
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: by by not doing anything, which I didn't expect that
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: to be the choice that you made, and it just
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: was confusing and felt like just you know, leaving you
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: out in the fucking cold. I think the only thing
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: I could rely on it was like you know, I
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: would I wouldn't do this to you.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: You had in those moments where your your ad libbing
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: a line where a line companies it just just that
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: feels like that's what you say.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: It's just kind of like you couldn't stop from saying
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: it right, you.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: Know, But you have to be working with somebody that
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: makes that okay, you know what I mean? Because the
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: part of your brain that will like govern you or
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: tell you something's not okay, whatever, we'll we'll step in.
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: If it's sort of like you know, listen, I expect
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: you to fucking in this boxes and there's there's a
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: directors and writers who really do, really care about every
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: word precisely and that you know, and that's that's how
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: they do it. And that's fine. That could be great
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: too for me. Like it. I find it's it becomes
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: more interesting and sometimes better stuff happens if you actually
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: feel like you don't have to say any of the lines.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: I don't see any of the lines in the scene.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: Then I'll tend to say the ones that feel right.
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: But but like that, it's that fake thing that never
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: happens in life, which is I'm never sitting here talking
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: to you and think what's my next line? What am
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: I supposed to say? And how should I say that?
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: And it's not about the lines ever, it's not about
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: the word. It's about what's happened, what's the scene, about
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: what's happening in the scene.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons why Curb your Enthusiasm is
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: so great, because Larry David just gives you a place
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: to get to.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like you get them in a kind of a
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: loose agenda. Yeah, it's gonna happen.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: And then homes a bunch of stuff and everybody figures
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: it out.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: And a lot of times that shows about the awkward
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: shit in between. People are missing each other and not
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: themselves a little embarrassed.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: And show it is and and and people talk like
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: we're talking, like you occasionally talk over each other. There's
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: a stumble, there's no one know, like what what do
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: the fuck are you talking?
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: There's weirdness too, because what's also happening is that forces
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: you to really listen, right, And that is that is
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: the hardest thing to kind of learn for young actors,
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: I think, is it's really all about listening. And like
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: I did a bunch of movies with Paul Greengrass, and
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: that's how he works where he where. You just know
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: the agenda going in. You know some basic things that
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: you know what your guy needs going in. Like I
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: was playing a chief warrant officer and I had to
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: go through a door and there was a guy and
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: I needed to interrogate him, and this is what I
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: needed to know from him. I needed to secure the
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: house with my guys, and I needed to get to
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: this guy. We needed to make sure everybody here was secure,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: so and it and they and he put me with
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: a bunch of real combat veterans and we fucking went
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: in and you know, they're.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: The exitther thing that does your job for you. It's
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: just being around the real people putting the cops from Miami,
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: you know all these parts, and it's just like by osmosis,
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: you feel more legitimate. The thing feels more authentic to
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: the audience. You don't know why, because you don't know
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: what the how, what the fucking culture is of the
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: tactical narcotics team in Miami. But when you see the
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: real guys, you kind of you're like, yeah, that seems.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Right, and Miami is a perfect place to have it.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also specific to this because it's based on
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: this real tactical narcotics team in Miami and and uh
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: and the guy who ran that, this guy, Chris Cassiano
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: is Joe's friend and he's the guy that my character
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: is based on. So Chris was Chris. We went, you know,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: we wrote along with Chris down there. We went with
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: that team and watched them operate and then hung out
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: with them, and then they came up and they were
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: you know all in the movie, and Chris was around
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: as a technical advisor the whole time. So any question
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: like little details, all right, how.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Do I go through this store? What do I do?
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: What do you do here?
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: What's the what's the protocol here?
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: What?
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: All of that stuff was kind of overseen by him,
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: so that it so that it was how they really
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: That whole fucking town is so, did you ever see
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: cocaine cowboys? Yes, the entire fucking graduating class of the
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: police academy one year either wound up murdered or in jail.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: That's what happens. All of a sudden, you push so
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: much fucking money into something and it's like before they
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: even kind of figured out, like you know, and it
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: was there wasn't even a less stigma. It was like, ah,
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: cocaine whatever, it's kind of rich guy's fun drug. But
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: you know, it's just some statistic about like, you know,
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: the amount of money in the banks in Miami was
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: like the same as the rest of the country.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: More banks poor capita in Miami than anywhere else in
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: the country. Because they were just laundering money, right, and
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: they got away with it. They got away.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Have you ever flown over Bimini. You know the so
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: so if you fly over every fly over Bimini, they're
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: all these like cestnas underwater, all these planes like around
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: the island. Because what they used to do, Bimini is
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: like the closest it's fifty miles off the coast of Florida.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: They would they would come in with a plane full
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: of drugs and just crash the plane into the water.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: They would land on purpose, on purpose, because there's no
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: runway on Beminy.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: There's no it's like it, we're gonna dump the plane.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: They would have ten cigarette boats, like a flotilla of
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: boats waiting. They would crash the plane. They'd offload the
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: drugs as the plane was sinking, right, and and then
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: they put it.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: They put it. They put the coast guard like figures
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: that they're always.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Coming for them. That's why they have ten boats. They
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: throw the drugs into one of the boats and they
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: got a one out of ten chance of making it.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: They just scatter and the coast guard goes after one
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: of them in hopes they get the right one. And
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: it's just like no, it's just taking a cruise tonight.
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: What's the problem.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: But the planes are still all submerged like you could.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: The water is so clear you can see how.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Many fucking Oh well, there you go. That's crazy. How
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: many fucking planes are out there.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: I flew over it five twenty years ago, but I
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: mean there's.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was I don't know how long.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, but if you think of probably the cost
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: of one of those little cessens probably wasn't I mean,
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: with the amount of drugs they were moving on.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Fucking wild. They're kind of landing where it's sort of shallow.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the land it's like, okay, we can five to
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: ten feet of water and what do they land at whatever?
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Fifty five knots So you just try it.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: Looks nice too. Yeah, sure, wow, it would be comfortable.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: But I mean Sully landed at seven thirty seven.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: It wasn't right. Yeah, fucking wild. What a crazy part
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: of our culture that that happened. That the whole cocaine
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: run during the eighties in particular, like Miami Vice all
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: that shit, just like it shaped the entire country for sure.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: I just remember that one guy in that documentary who
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: was like I think he was from Boston and he
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: was like the pilot and he had figured out the route,
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: and he was like, man, like, we could have gotten
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: away with this forever because somebody talked and he did.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: That's the only way we would have been caught.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: Was like I had it all. He was clearly really smart.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: And the guys did too, you know. I mean there's
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: a whole lot of people out there that were like, yeah,
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: we had a nice run. That's why I got eight houses.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh yeah, that's one of the real crimes
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: that people got away with was bringing cocaine into this country.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that got very wealthy, including banks,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: which is just really crazy.
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: Banks with the jewelry companies jagged there was like more
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: Jaguar dealerships in Miami than was in the country. And
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: he was like, doesn't paid to ask questions? So, yep,
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: I guess a lot of people like our cars here.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: You don't say all cash, Sure, we make you a deal.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Sure, But how many backyards in Miami still to this
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: day have bags just buried somewhere that nobody knows about it?
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: Probably just checking when you buy a house in Miami,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: just dig the yard up.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Well, at least find out who owned it before you. Ah,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: he's a pilot. Get a truck, get it tracked. It's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: time to dig up the backyard. I mean one of
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: those guys in the films had millions of dollars just
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: buried in his backyard. They had nowhere to put it.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: They were making so much money they just had to
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: bury at places.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: That's fucking crazy.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Well, it's why it's a perfect backdrop for the film,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: you know, because you know that the situation that the cops,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: without giving away too much of the plot, but the
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: situation that the cops are dealing with is a very
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: real situation. I mean, so many DEA agents turned dirty,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: so many cops turn dirty.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: It's because it just can get much frontation. Yes, you
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: take these people, you know, you got like six seven people.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: They fucking work for a living. They had the same
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: bullshit they have to deal with, and there's twenty million dollars,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: you know, and it's I mean, it makes for a
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: great like drama too, even like the you know when
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: the performances, because all of a sudden, somebody's thinking like, okay,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: how are they gonna react? You know, put me the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: first person to say, you don't have to turn this
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: all in, you know, and and like getting to play
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: that shit. And for me also, I like, you know,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: without being you know, sanctimonious or preachy, because I really
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: think movies we're talking about, like what they do well
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: they do very poorly is deliver messages or lecture. As
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: soon as you get into that thing, yeah, the audience
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: is like, you know, I'm gonna go to church for
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: that or fucking school. I don't need that shit here.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: But I like that what was underneath it is like
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: this is a fucking hard job, and and that there's
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: a lot like there's a lot of value. Like these characters,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: the ones that are trying to do their job, bar
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: around and get through the day and just at the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: end of day have done their job like they said
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: they were gonna do, you know, adhere to the fucking
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: ethics that they're supposed to and the end of the day,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: be able to sleep at night and believe there's some
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: value in not fucking stealing the money or flipping somebody over,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and doing all that shit.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: And that's the wind. The wind doesn't have to be
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: get away with the bag of money or fucking you know,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: save the world from you know, the evil scientists, laserbeam
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: or whatever. It's like the end of the day. If
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: you can fucking live with yourself and say, look, you know,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: I quit myself according to what the fucking expectations were
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: and what am I true to my word? And I
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: think there's so like that's a I don't know that
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: that affected me. I found that kind of moving and
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: and you can't do it if you create, like if
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: it's to credit Joe script, like just two dimensional characters.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: Oh I'm the hero, I'm the villain, or this person
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: would never do that. They don't have to be real
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: people like you would be subject to like temptation, and
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: money just represents whatever that thing is you think you
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: want or that's gonna make your life better. You're you know,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: it's something different to everybody, but you know, especially when
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: you're like you're facing like really you know, the constanty
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: thing or the you know, the sick relative or or
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: whatever it is, that's it's a real thing. Nobody's immune
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: to that kind of temptation. You know. Sometimes I think
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: it's cavalier to be like, oh, well you're dirty or
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: you're not putting people in a very tough situation. A
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: lot of times particularly if they're feeling like undervalued. I
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: get like the woman the scene where Catalina is like,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: I get fucking pissed, I get yelled at, I get
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: shit on, you know what I mean, Like I'm out
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: here grinding every fucking day. You know, it's a it's
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: a lot to its a lot to ask, and I
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: think it's it's worth kind of making that, you know,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: heroic without sort of indicating too much.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: No, it's really well written because there's no suspension of
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: disbelief moments. It's a it's a and that's hard to
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: do in a big blockbuster action movie. There's always one
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: movie moment in a movie we're like, what come on,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: how do you do that? You guys don't have any
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: of those, there's none of that. I loved it. I
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: loved it. I loved that that aspect of it too,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: where it felt like all of it was like I
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: believed it.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: I believed it. And that's really a credit to Joe
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: and his like taste, and that's why we really thought
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: like this guy knew how to make nark. He kind
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: of obviously understood this world, just understood that it has
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: to above all, it has to feel real and That's
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: why he was open to like, Okay, whatever happens, you
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: throw in a line, maybe it's good. Can't get your
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: feeling hurt if it's not, you know, but like you
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: got to be able to take that shot. And we're
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: all down, you know, trying to spend time with people.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, I kind of feel for the cops bunch
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: of actors to send on you and they're like, what
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: what kind of sweatshirt is that? You know?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: It was like that Michael J. Fox James Woods movie.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: Remember that movie when you do? I forget what it
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: was called, but he's Michael J. Fox is an actor
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: following around James Woods's sheets, studying him for a character,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: and James Woods is a real like detective and he's
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: just like, get this guy away from me.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: I kept thinking of that. We kind of hair jail.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah exactly, like all these questions, you know,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: but they were very tolerant of us, which was which
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: was nice and and uh and uh and really really helpful,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: you know, because it's all it's always details. It's always details.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: It's like how fastidiously do you do you kind of
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: mind for those details? Because I've always been convinced that
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: like an audience. It's like you were saying, they don't
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: analyze why they don't believe something.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: They feel it. They just don't believe it.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: And it's usually because those details are you don't get
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: those And.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: That's the only thing. Like I'm not great at imagining something.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: Let's invent this saying. Everything that I've done like that,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: I that I like has been a result of something
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: I founded. Research Like for the town, I went down
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: and just went through the you know, all the prisons
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: you know out there, Massa's federal prisons they and sat
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: down and talked to guys who robbed trucks and banks
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: and you know kind of sometimes you know, you want
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: to know. And then sat down with the FBI guys
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: and was like, what are they like? And the great shit,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: you know for me is that you know, and I'm
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: in like I'm in like wet Wallpole or I'm in
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: the prison dead him or whatever, and I'm some guy
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: said like after talking for two hours, you know, I
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: was like, is anything just fucking weird? Ever happened or
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: fucked anything? You remember? And I was like, yeah, one time,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: you know, we were coming out of this thing, we
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: robbed this truck and you know, we had the mag
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: we got the switch car and we drove around the
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: corner and whatever. We pull up and we get out
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: fucking guns, the mass all things, and we look over
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: and there's this cops sitting there doing construction duty. And
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: I was like, right then, you can tell me a story.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh shit. I was like, what happened?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: So he looked at us, we looked at him. He
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: looked the other way. WHOA And I was like, really
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: goes yeah, he didn't want to end up on the wall.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: To vf W.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: It was these guys with full automatic weapons masks on
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: switching cars.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: I'm putting that in there, and it's it's in there.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: It's a great moment in the town like in the
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: movie because you know Renner, they all jump.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: Out of the things and they and then and he oh, yeah,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: here it is.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: It was like it's great and it's this awkward they
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: just stopped and this dude he sees them, they see him.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: He's like the fun we have to kill this guy. Nope,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: he turns away.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, Wow, it's such a great but that's straight from research.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: I always loved that story. And then he and then
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: the line is here that you put it here the wall.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: W Yeah, there's a great you know, it's a great line.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: It was such a simple explanation for what do you think?
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: What do you think? He did? You know? And why?
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: Like and that's exactly what it would have been like
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: that guy next day's picture would have been up in
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: the wall at VFW. Yeah, you know, and he knew
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: it and everybody knew it. He said he didn't want
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: to do it like that, you know. That was and
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: that kind of stuff is I don't know, it's very human,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: human calculations and interacting is in a very extreme version
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: of it. But it also doesn't happen sometimes it's not
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: dramatic at all, you know, it's like, yeah, that was
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: an easy decision. And the guy never says anything that
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: I don't see anything, you know, and kind of can't
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: really blame him, you know. Yeah.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: The Town was a great fucking movie too. And I
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: knew a lot of people like that, you know, from
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: boxing gems and stuff. I knew a guy who was
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: a hit man for Whitey Bulger. I knew a guy
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: who was a friend of a brother of mine who
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: went to jail for that for murder, for killing people. Yeah,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: what town do you grow up in? I lived in Newton. Yeah,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: I grew up in I lived in Jamaica Plane for
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: a little while, and I lived in Newton. But I
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Boston because I was fighting.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: It was mostly trained, and so I was around a
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: lot of these, like very shady characters who were in
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: the fighting world, and a lot of them had backgrounds
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: in crime. One of the guys that I went to
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: that I trained with, he went to jail for a
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: little while and then he got arrested because a guy
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: got killed and they broke every bone in his body
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: with a hammer and kept injecting it with cocaine to
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: keep them keep them awake while they were doing it.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: And then they cut his hands off and cut his
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: head off. And this guy that I used to train
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: with got arrested for that.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: Jesus.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't wind up going to jail for that.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: He's dead now, but he was somehow or another, at
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: least peripherally involved.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, Well I didn't do any fighting, but I
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: went around and found a lot anything. The One of
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: the things about being you know, being an actor, and
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: people will talk to you, you know, which is a
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: fucking amazing gift. Even if somebody's like, oh yeah, I
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: kill guys, you know, they'll just come out and like
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: it's kind of the rules all of a sudden don't apply.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: Like these guys in prison, what the fuck are they
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: gonna talk? You know what I mean? But they're like
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: interested in it for whatever, and you know, so so
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: you avail yourself for that. And and then I had, like,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: you know, we had people around that movie who everybody knew,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: yeah he did that job. He never got arrested, and
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: so like people you know, meet you know, and and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: uh and talk to him. And it's interesting because the
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: such a good lesson for doing this job, which is
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: that they're never how you think they're supposed to be,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: like the murderer person, right, you know, there's always something
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: a little I remember one guy was supposed to be
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: like this really violent, kind of loose cannon fucking guy
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: who supposedly had done all this shit, stabbed and killed
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: two people Faniel Hall and shot these guys in a
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: in a robbery, and he like shows up with his
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: polo shirt kind of tucked in. You know, He's how
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: it was going. You know, just like I never would
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: have fucking put this guy on killing poor people, you
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: know what I mean, I think I have a good time,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: so I love that one movie and you're just thinking, fuck, man,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: like this is why, and it's a really good lesson
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: for like, you know, we tend to redescript it. Okay,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: this guy's the tough guy and he's gonna it's like
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: you work, Like I had the fucking like the opportunity
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: to train with these Delta guys, Like, you know, it's
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: the most elite special Forces combat fucking operators in the world.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, supposed the Seals will take perception to that,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: but what just numerically right, there's been less than nine
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: hundred guys ever in history of Delta. You meet him
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: and they're not the biggest guys, they're not the toughest guys.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: They're not trying to fucking be hard, and you know,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: they're the most relaxed at ease, and it's you know,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: I found myself just being like, finally, I was like,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: what I just asked you, what do you think makes
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: somebody like qualify for the Delta Force? Like what's a
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: good Delta operator? It's like, ah, you know, problem solving.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: Problem solving. They goes, yeah, it's probably like your job.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: I was like, no, let me notice, it's really not
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: like my job. I appreciated a very big fucking difference.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: He's like, yeah, you saw problems again. No, try to
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: kill me. That's the thing. But that that was the
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: closest inside I got to it, which was I've always
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: kind of thought this about like a guy like like
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: Brady or something. There's guys that just don't get tight
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: and that they are they are kind of able to
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: problem solve when the problem is like, well, that helicopters
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: crashed and we're two hundred miles inside Afghanistan and we're
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: out numbered fucking six to one, how do you think
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: we should get home? Like just having your wits about
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: you to make that calculation while, by the way, you're
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: in a fucking gun fight and things. You know, I'm
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: sure that does make because those are the people whereofs
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: I'd be in a fucking panic and I have no
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: idea what to do. And you get like attracted to
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: the person who's like seems to have it, like, hey,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: I'm it's good, We're gonna be okay. Everybody, get your
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: shit we're going over here, you'll just follow that guy,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean. But it's a good look.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: It's not always the most Maybe it's just because they're
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: so confident. They're not like I don't like I don't
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: need to prove that I can kick anybody's I don't
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: even get in fights, like have a weapon. You know.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: It's it's just always it surprises me how those kinds
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: of like extraordinary experiences and people or running people don't
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: always manifest themselves in how they show up.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: But we have caricatures ahead of what Like these tough
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: people are like, well you see that about MMA fighters,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of MMA fighters. You meet him,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: they're like the sweetest, nicest, friendliest people in the world.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: I remember going to one of the events in La
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: I think it was this Staples and and I was
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: backstage and was talking to one of like the lawyers
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: for the UFC about we were talking about Connor McGregor,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: and he was telling me a great story about him.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: And this guy walks up and.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: He's in a like chinos, like khaki pants and like
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: a blue button up like you know, kind of business
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: shirt with spectacles, and he's very small and I kind
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: of don't really regard him. And I'm still hearing this
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: story and then Patrick goes, Matt, do you know Henry?
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: And I turned and it's Henry Shudo and I'm like,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: this fucking guy could wreck me, right, absolutely fucking roy
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: me and he and he is the guy that some
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: dummy would try to pick on.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah right, you know what I mean.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: He's not he's not carrying himself like he's he just
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: is the thing, you.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: Know, and find out a little bit too late. Yeah,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: I don't find that one out.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a lot of guys do, unfortunately. Yeah, that's uh,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: it's well, they don't have to prove themselves, right, they
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: do it all the time. The same with Delta Force
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: guys like this idea like this, like outwardly brash, tough
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: guy usually that kind of machismo, and that's bullshit. That's
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: you're you're using that because you're insecure, and the secure
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: people are very calm and genuinely, very friendly.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: Really nice. That's been my experience.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy, right, it's kind of beautiful too, you know.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: I kind of like, what a great guy, and you
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: feel like that's nice to you to be so so
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: sweet to me because you obviously don't have to be.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: I'll just give you my watch.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's it is a fascinating thing. It's like
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: we have these ideas in our head, these caricatures, you know,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: of what what a tough man is, what a good
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: woman is one of this is what that is. And
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: as I think, one of the beautiful things about film,
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: when a film is really good is you see these
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: complex characters and it sort of like reformulates in your
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: mind like what a person actually is.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's seeing all kinds of different people. Yeah, you know,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: and and yeah, yeah I completely agree.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: Mean I look the fundamental like challenge I think in
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: life and is like it's like to find some humilody,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: which means actually thinking you might be wrong about the
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: ship that you're pretty sure about. And it means that
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: like you kind of have to assume somebody else might
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: have a point. You know. It's not like just writing
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: everybody else off who disagrees with you because other fuck him,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: he's doing an asshlets. You know, like those are things
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: that actually take work to get to because the first instinct,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: because you just defend your idea or whatever it's easier.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: Is to just that it's a zero sum yeah exactly, Yeah,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: that that two competing ideas can't exist.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: Well, that somebody can't be a good person and believe it, right,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: Like if you decide so you can disagree. We don't
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: believe that. I don't know what about this? What about that?
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: But once you find yourself relying on like, well, I
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: need to like zero out this person's humanity in order
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: to defend my idea, I think that's a pretty good
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: indicator that, like there's something wrong with the way you're thinking, like,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: because it can't be that you're right about everything and
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: everyone else is bad who disagrees with me?
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: I think that was one of the most interesting things
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: about The Sopranos is that the main character, the guy
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: that you loved, was a fucking murderer who was like
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: who would murder his friends. He was a complete mobster
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: and a thug, but you really loved him, loved at
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: It was so complicated we watched.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: Doing the part that you found yourself being like, I
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: don't I think you probably has to kill him now, but.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: I kill That's also that's also great A great actor,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: Like there's a very famous story about Marlon Brando when
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: he did Streetcar Name Desire and Tennessee Williams, who wrote it,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: like freaked out because he was making Stanley Kowalski. He
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: was making people empathize with Stanley Kowalski, and Tennessee Williams
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: was like, but I wrote him as a brute. He's
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: just he was like a two dimensional brude who just
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: came and beat up his wife. And you know, it
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: was just and was supposed to be this kind of dark,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: looming force over the play. But Brando was like, now
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: he's a human being, and I'm gonna play him like
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: a fucking human being, and and it changed the play.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: But but Williams and the real world, everybody's the hero
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: of their story. Everyone has their reasons for why they're
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: doing and people don't set out to be like I'm
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: just gonna hurt someone or dominate the world like you think, well,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: I gotta protect what I had. It's like even you know,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: bringing back this movie. But it's like what I liked
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: about Rip was it was kind of the slippery slope,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: you know, the first time you take a little money
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: and then well you know, I got covered. I don't
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: want to go to jail and my reason why I
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: did that. But now I've told lie, Now I got
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: to cover that thing. And now you have guys who
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: both live by this code. That's very Hey, you protect
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: the people who are with you, and you got to
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: have this fucking and so now as to be a
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: very similar like by that kind of slippery slope, I
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: ultimately find themselves. You know, we'll only killed one another
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: because it's really not I don't. I don't believe in
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: that one choice turn. It's like more, how do you
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: find yourself? You dig yourself in a fucking hole because
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: you're just covering up the light, trying to fix the
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: last problem that's arisen, you know, and everybody thinks is
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: of course the roots for themselves is like us with themselves.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: That's what we have to be concerned with ourselves, our needs,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: our families, our basic shit. It's hard to expect people
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: to go like ah, right, and and what about you know,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: like what they think and I and I think that's
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: I think it's a it's a much more honest evaluation
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: of people, and it allows for like complexity and forgiveness
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: and fucking all the shit that's sort of beautiful about
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: people like rather than this notion of like, well, we're
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: gonna be binary good or bad, perfect or not whatever,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: and any infraction then it's like permanently stains you.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: It's to well, it was like we were talking about
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: earlier about people that have been canceled, you know, that
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: this idea that one thing you said or one thing
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: you did, and now we're going to exaggerate that to
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: the fullest extent and cast you out of civilization in perpetuity. Yeah,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: it's fucking crazy.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: And yeah I was because because I bet some of
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: those people would have preferred to go to jail for
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: eighteen months or whatever too, and and and then come
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: out and say no, but I that we can't. I
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: paid my debt, like we're done, ye?
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: Can we be done?
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: Like that?
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: The thing about about that, you know, getting kind of.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Excoriated publicly like that, it's it just never ends, and
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: it's and it's the first thing that you know, it's
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: just it just will follow you to the grave.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's also this problem that people have with
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: people that are in the public eye, and they have
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: this like desire to chop them down always, you know,
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: and anybody that stumbles in the public eye they want
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: to destroy their life and they want to just pile
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: on and you're not there with them. You don't feel
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: the empathy, you know, talking to they're not a human being.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: It's just text on a screen.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: Right. It's just like kind of like I was saying,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: like that kind of sixth grade instinct to be like, oh,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 3: he's in trouble. You know, there's this you know, human
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: like we have dark fucked up in things too. Sometimes
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: to like isolate people or get joy out of someone
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: else's they're in trouble because maybe because part of it
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: saying hey, it's not me, you know, so if you
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: can point the finger everyone's looking over there, we feel safer,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: you know, right. But it's it's like, yeah, and to
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: to take any forgiveness out of it, you know, is
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: a really fucked up thing, because then it makes it
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: impossible a to actually go all right, yeah I did that.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: Fuck shit, that was wrong. I get it, you know,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: because it doesn't matter. Once you've said you've done it,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: you become like an outcast. And I don't think anybody
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: wants to think, you know, like you're the sum total
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: of who you are is your worst moment, right, you know,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: It's sort of like the question. You know, you know,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: I think you want to be judged just as well.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: You're capable of doing something good or something beautiful. It's
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: not to say to forget. You know, there's people that
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: just over and over and over and they're doing horrible shit,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: don't care. I get it. No one's trying to like
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: absolve that. But you remove the ability to sort of
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: forgive people or look at them in the complicated or else.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: It's kind of when it becomes of those things, it's
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: like a get one of ours or one of them,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 3: the istinct to get like a team tribal oriented. It
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: just becomes a sport.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: It's also like who wants to live in a world
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: with no forgiveness and redemption? That's crazy, Like that's just
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: denying the very nature of human beings and that people
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: do things that they regret and they do and then
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: they become better people because of it.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: And to some of the people I would rely on
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: the most, like trust my kids with the most, I've
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: done shit that they that they really regret and you
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: know it's yeah, objectively wrong. And other people have been like,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: I shit, I did that. I fucking whether it's like
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: addiction I got myself down this fucking right. I did this.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: I did this. They're able to go I did it.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, it's real. I shouldn't have done it. It
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: was wrong that actually that those people can become someone
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: that's very trustworthy. Yeah, because you're like this motherfucker will
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: say if they've done some they'll actually look at their
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: own behavior. They'll acknowledge it, and then you feel you
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: feel good and you feel much versus someone who tells
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: you like, I'm I gotta always get right.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: Everything's well, It's like it's all it's a bad evolution, right,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: and and and in our own personal evolution, and we're
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: all in our on our own path towards that. Like
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: the idea of attacking someone, it's like, oh, so you
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: you ace the test, like put your encil down, like
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: you nail human, You're done.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: If that's not possible because you forgot about the part
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: about forgiveness, that's just a giant definition.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 3: It's out there throwing stones.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: It's most of the people that I find, especially when
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: there's someone that's publicly in trouble for something, most of
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: the people that I know that have attacked people have
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of questionable ship in their past, and it's
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: almost like they're trying to hide that by going on
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: the attack.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: That's the thing, Like if I can point my finger,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: it's like he's going to.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: Be Oh, he's a good guy. Ben's a good guy.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: He's calling the.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: Mat exactly, you know if you like like yeah, it's
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: like you're telling me to see wake up dead Man,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: The Knives out the Third Knives. And I watched I
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: really liked it. I thought it was a really interesting like,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm not a religious guy. I don't like
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: that's you know, and yeah, I'm aware of all the
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: like okay, you know there's the religion, then there's people
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: who's rational. I thought it was a really beautiful movie
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: about like what's the role of grace in life? You know,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: and and the really honest examination of that, like sitting
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: isn't side by side with yeah, okay you don't believe it,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: but like and you know, saying it's not about like
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: whether you're gonna argue over fucking evolution. It's about like
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: how graceful are you in your life? You know, how
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: much fucking dignity can you afford other people? I know
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: you will recognize and see that there's maybe something bigger
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: than yourself and that there's a reason to to like
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: to try to sort of be to find that grace
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: to get better. You know. That was really beautiful and
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: kind of rare and really surprised.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: I was really surprise too. I I kind of put
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: it on and not you know, not not think yeah
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: I loved it.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I loved it too. I think it's one
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: of the best of the three. It's it was my
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: favorite of this Those are great. Daniel Craig is great
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: in that role.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: He's fantastic guy.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: Goes from James Bond to that and so many other
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: things as well.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: Josh kna that he played the priest because I first
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: saw him on on the ground and fucking man, what
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: an actor.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 3: He is really really good.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: How much film do you guys consume? Do you do?
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: You spend a lot of time watching films?
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: I mean consider It depends and there's a lot like
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: if we're working as we're watching cuts after cuts and
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: going to the editing room, like there's a lot of
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: kind of work around all the stuff that we have
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: going that that that eats into a lot of time.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: Mostly trying to keep up with what people are doing.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: My issue is really that like we've kind of developed
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: this pattern where all these sort of movies that come
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: out and are more interesting and very like, they're all
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: jammed out at the last fucking month of the year,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: and so all of a sudden you're trying to race
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: out homeworks movies. I got really lucky. Like recently, my son,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: you know, thirteen society, he wants to like watch movies,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: you know, and I give him shit like what are
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: you fucking we always looking at TikTok and shit, like
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 3: you want let's watch a movie, And you know, he's
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: kind of blowing me off and all his eyes and like,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: you know, I mean, if you're dad, you're kind of
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: an asshole. Fun to make, like, come on, you don't
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: know what's going on, you know what I mean. Like
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: he told me one time, he was like, Dad, I said, look, look,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: let's watch this movie. I played in the trailer it
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: was it was I can't remember what the movie was
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: a good movie and the trailer was good. He just
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: looks at it and goes, you know what you guys
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: want to do? You guys are to work with some
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: of the TikTok editors. It's just like wow. I went
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: and told the end. I told Billy and Chris. I
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: was like, guys, I got news for you. But but
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: now he's like, all right, let's watch, Like, what are
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: some movies I should watch? You got letter box? He
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: got into that thing. You know. It's like so I was,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: so I said, Okay, what are the great movies? I'll
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: give you a list. I started giving him a list
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 3: based on watching them, and so I mean, this is
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: like happened for me. So it's like, Okay, what do
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: you watching? K comedy? Like last week you watched Patsy
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: Driver kick up all these Scorsese movies. And it really
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: was like, oh man, I because in my mind, I'm like,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: sure I've seen that movie. I know, watched him again.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: It was like seeing it, I realize how much better
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: they were than I even could appreciate when I watched
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: it when I was younger. And it really and it
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: was just the most beautiful fucking experience for me to
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: watch my son like taking an interest. And this is
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: the you know, the older two have always been a
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: little bit like yeah, dad, no great, but you guys
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: want to come to prayer? No, not really, guess what
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: comes to the set. Now I'm good.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: You know, Well, it's just too much familiarity. You know,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: you grow up with a dad as a movie star,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: just like the.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: Kids got it, and I get it. You got to
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: be your own person, do your thing, to have all
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: their own shit, and I get you know, I never
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 3: even so I never expected it from my son. And
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know that he's gonna, you know, and I
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: wouldn't want to lean on him, like, hey, get into
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 3: the family business. Most of the time, it's just like,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: you know, we go to like basketball games, baseball all
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: that stuff. Stuff. But it but this was a really
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: it was like wow, it was like so joyful, you
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: know what, I mean, to sit there and watch the
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: movies with my kid. I was like, this doesn't get better.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: This is the happiest I may ever be in my
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: whole life, you know, right here watch this movie and
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: he's like, well he's telling me what he thinks. You know.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: It's just like like, honestly, the rest of it, you
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: can fucking keep it.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: That's the best.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: Well, it's great that you guys still love film, you know,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: that's it hasn't become just a job. It hasn't become
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: a thing that you do that you really enjoy it
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: and love it.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was never a job. I mean it really
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: like it was. It was like an absolute dream from
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: the time we were kids.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: We did fucking high school theater together, you know, like
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: that's crazy. It was like we're lucky to get it
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 3: and lucky to the whole idea that you could even
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: the goals like to make a living. Then I have
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: to be like, well, I'm an actor, you know, slash
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: a waiter, contractor dentalists what is you know, Like, actually
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: I can earn money. I can, and we always figured
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: like I don't need that much, especially if you have kids.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: You know, Okay, we can make a living or it's
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe it's gonna be dinner theater, or maybe
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: it's gonna be right, it's gonna be a job somewhere
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: that we can find where we can do this and
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: keep doing it. Yeah.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: Well, there's something that I mean, I love when people
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: love things. I spend time on YouTube watching people like
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: uh fix watches, you know, Like I don't know why,
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: but I love when people make furniture. I love I
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: love watching people do things that they really love that
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: they're invested in. I think we all have that thing
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: in us where we see someone who's got a passion
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: for something, someone really loves it. And that's what everybody
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: really wants in life, to be lost in the thing
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: you love, to have a purpose, yea.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: And even watching someone else with true purposes. Yeah, it's hypnotics.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: It reminds me of Joe Versus the Volcano. Whether you
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: want to like luggage, sir, He's like, uh, he's luggage
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 3: is the central preoccupation of my life. That's a luggage
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: salesman and he fucking loves me nothing more than luggage.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: And it's the greatest scene.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: I asked Tom Hanks about that when I did Saving
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: Private Ryan. I was like, can you tell me about
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: that scene because we love the scene so much. And
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: he goes and he named the actor. He's a Broadway actor.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: I guess the guy he came in he worked for
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: like one day in this scene, and he's so good
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: in that movie. And then at the very end, he's
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: showing him all the luggage and Tom Hanks has unlimited
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: money to spend. He thinks he's dying, and so he
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: basically goes like, well, what's the best luggage, and he goes, well,
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: you know, and he opens if I had the means,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: and he opens up this thing and there's this trunk
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: and it's like this music plays, and he opens it
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: and Tom Hanks is like, I'll take two of them.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: You live to be a thousand years olds.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: It's the greatest stay of his life. Oh god, that's amazing.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: You guys have been in some fucking bangers man saving
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: Private Ryan. That opening film, the Storming of the Beach unbelievable.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: That might be the most realistic depiction of war that's
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: ever been made.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: So I remember reading the script and there was all
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: these dialogue, all this stuff that was written. And I
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: came late because I'm only in the He shot it chronologically,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: and I'm only in the last you know, the last
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: act of the movie basically, and and uh and he
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: told me on set, I was saying, how did I go?
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: How did it go? To the beginning? You know, there's
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: that all that dialogue with them on the.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: Boat coming in and and Steven goes, he just goes,
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: I cut I cut all of that out.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 3: He goes, He goes. No talking for the first twenty
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 3: seven minutes of this movie. Whoa. And that was when
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, this movie is gonna
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 3: be fucking I.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: Think Tom says like I'll see you on the beach
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: or something. He screamed, you know, guys are puking.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, remember it's not going to live.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: That was the script, right, remember that it was it
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: was look at the man next to you.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: He won't let you know.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: He's got like two out of three of you are
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: going to die. So look at to your left, look
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: to your right, and feel bad for those two sons
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: of bitches because they're not gonna make it.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: It was stuff like that, and Stems just like nope, wow, no,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: these guys are puking. It's like the things up. You
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: could just hear dick, you know, and it's just like
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: and then just boom and you're into it. And also
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: they did this incredible like cinema changing ye open all the.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: Way, skip the bleach process in developing the film. I
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: don't that look.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if they're going to twenty two
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: or twenty three frames anywhere in there. Maybe, but I
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: just remember, maybe it's just the open shutters just.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 3: It just means that instead of like the motion blur
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 3: is what makes something that like moves across the frame quickly.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: If you look at each frame, it's like a blurred thing.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: And when you roll those twenty four frames, it gives
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 3: you this the illusion that it moves across fluidly. And
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: if you basically open the shut up so you get
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 3: much more light. Each frame takes a super sharp picture.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: And when you run those together, like the piece of.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: Dust and so the mortar explosions are going and you
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: get that feeling that you're adrenalized and you're seeing you
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: know what I mean.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: And it's just and nobody had ever done it, and
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 3: the master of the thing, Yeah, understood how to use
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: the tools and combined with the great idea and it's
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 3: it's just masterful. Like that's just how you do it.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 3: There's nobody who directs movies who doesn't go it's bill work.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: You know, Yes, that's how you do it. That's it.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 3: That's just like you said, one of those things. A
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: guy that's passionate and also you know, caring about something.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 3: You know, it's that it's with that much passion is
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 3: kind of connected to greatness. And it's I think why
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: we love to see that, whether you know, sports, fucking
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 3: you know, fighting or whatever it is, there's something that
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: makes you kind of love being alive and also love
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 3: that that person when you go fuck, like when you
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 3: see Michael Jordan like that. There was that whole movie
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 3: that we did. Air is really all about, like what
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: does it mean to be great? And how does it
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: like touch everybody and change everybody and make people want
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 3: to fucking improve their own lives because somebody's just better
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 3: at that thing than anybody else in the world. It's
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: it's transfixing, you know. I mean I find that really fascinating.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 3: Like I you know, people who are great at something
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: and the mystery of like, well, what is that like
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: and what does that do to your life? And how
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 3: did you get that way and what does it take,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: you know, and what's the cost?
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: Because to truly be great at something you have to
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: kind of almost abandoned everything.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: I've seen that in various ways, like in that kind
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: of just empirical's personal study. I haven't seen anybody who
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: I think like qualifies for that who didn't also seem
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 3: to be really suffering, you know, and you're like, damn,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: you should be so happy, you're the greatest. You know
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: interviewers always so how do you feel right now? There's
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: that sense that like it's never finished or it's never enough,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: they can't enjoy it, or their carriers to the line
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 3: we put in air where it's like, can you have
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: to be that? Yeah, you know, like it's a kind
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 3: of a birth too in a way. And I just
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 3: see that, And that's why we want these heroes and
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: people who are great to I don't know, you know,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: Florish have their life and have it all in hand,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 3: like there's all this tragedy and all this stuff that
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: happens too, and it's yeah, that's like you said, there
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 3: seems to be a real cost.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: Well, there's always a massive case and personal relationships because
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: there's no way you have the time for other things.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: And the obsession that you have to be the best
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: at something you have to abandon almost all your concern
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: for everything else. You have to have this single minded
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: focus and that comes with the cost for the rest
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: of your life because you damage relationships, you feel like
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: a piece of shit, and.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: You see that up close, and like that's not admirable.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 3: Right now, you don't give a fuck about anybody else
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 3: now I do? I just care about this more. You know.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 3: It's like, so imagine that you're making the sacrifices and
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 3: it's causing injury to people and you know it and
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: you don't want to hurt them, but you can't help it,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: and you're getting rewarded for it. You know. It's it's complicated.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy because you inspire all these people that
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: don't know you and you ruin all your relationship.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: Maybe that's why I say don't meet your heroes.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: There's something to it, man, there really is, but it's
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: just we all grow from it. There's a fuel to
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: watching greatness. There's a thing that hits you and lights
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: you up where you want to do more, You want
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: to be better, You want to whatever it is that
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: you can do. Whatever it is you do, do you
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: become more. Whether it's a great game, a winning touchdown,
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: whether it's a great film, a great song. Yeah, it
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: lights you up, and it's the fuel that we all
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: live off of that consumes that, like we consume to
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: make our culture move forward.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: You know. So there's like a sacrificial element to the
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 3: people that do it and we all feed off of it.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: Oh and it feels like, well, that's the person that
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 3: doesn't get enough out of.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: It, right, right, But in great filming, how many lives
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: have been changed by decisions made after great films. Like
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: when I was a kid, I think I was like
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: seven or eight or something when Rocky came out and
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: I saw it and immediately ran around the block. I've
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: never sad in my life. I was eating raw eggs.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this is gonna change my life. Like there's
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: things that happen when you see something truly great that
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: it makes you want to be better as a human being.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 3: I remember where I was when I saw Denzel Washington
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: Malcolm X when's the movie? Watched that movie. I remember
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: leaving them and I was nineteen. I think I want
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 3: to be a better man. I thought that in my mind,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: you know, because of what I had seen this actor
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: do in this before and the way. You know, that
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: was the only real conscious thought I had. But I
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 3: remember having it and and kind of being surprised by it,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 3: you know, and it does it that shit? Can you know?
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: It's really touched me. You know a lot of fucking
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 3: people's work, and that's why you get that, Like, you know,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: you you see the people you want to let them
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 3: know you know what I mean and tell them. And
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 3: I always think people come to go, oh, hey, I
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: love that movie. I always like, yeah, you don't have
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: to say that, you know what I mean. It makes
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 3: me kind of uncomfortable, and I don't ever like put
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 3: myself in with those figures who I think are like no,
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 3: but there's these these towering giants who have done this.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't know. It's it's it's it's it's
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 3: I finally kind of arrived to a place where it
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: was like, those are a couple people say, oh I
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 3: saw a good one thing. It made me want to
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: go out to Hollywood write script.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: I think, you know what I mean, Like sorry, man.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 3: At a certain point, I figure, okay, you know what
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 3: whatever it is, Like, great, well, that's the thing.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: That's the cost of your fame. You know that you
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: have to there's gonna be a bunch of people that
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: are gonna come up to you and then want to
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: say those things to you. And like wanting them to
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: say those things to you is the opposite of the
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: mindset that you need to make those things exactly, which
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: is it's so counterintuitive. You think, like, once you become
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: really successful and you make a bunch of great things.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be awesome having all these people come up
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: to you like, no, no, no, I'm doing something else
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: right now, And I can't be all wrapped up in
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: the fact that I'm changing your life.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 3: I can't be satisfied or take any joying that because
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 3: I don't think I'm good enough. I need to fucking
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, right.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: Never satisfy You can't. And that's the darkness of trying
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: to do something great. You'll never be satisfied.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 3: You see in a lot of the fighters, the same
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: kind of thing that great great fighters.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: Well, also, fighters have a very small window of great. Yes,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: there's there's only like a certain amount of years where
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: he could burn the RPMs at the red line and
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: then eventually the knees go, the back goes.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 3: You started earlier than other sports, it must be y, Yes.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: I think so, because like Tom Brady is still elite.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: I bet he could probably play football right now. I
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: bet he You know, how is Tom now forty.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 3: Eight?
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: I bet he could still play.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but that's a yeah, I mean, that's
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: a very specific skill position and.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 3: The way he played it.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: Right, but running back, No, right, but at cornerback the
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: elite levels of MMA, especially with USADA testing and you
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: know and now drug free sport testing when they are
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: making sure that people aren't on testosterone and growth hormone
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: all these different things. Like you have nine years, you
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: have nine years at peak performance. That's legitimate, Like longs
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: John Jones been going Sehn Jones is a freak of
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: all freaks. Because John Jones beat Daniel Cormier when he
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: was on coke. That was one of the funny things
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: he said in the press conference for the rematch Dan
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: and he was talking, he goes, I beat you when
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: I was on coke. I mean he was getting arrested.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: He was partying for when he thought Gustafson. He beat
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: Gustafson and he didn't train at all. I talked to
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: his trainer. He's like, he didn't even show up at
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: the gym. He was fucking never there. He was never training.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: He could just show up and beat everybody's I.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: Saw a thing on my Instagram feed of a fighter
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: and I don't know who it was, but he was
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: a heavyweight and he goes. I had the chance to
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: spar with John Jones, to work with John Jones and
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: he goes, I, you know, I knew about it months
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: ahead of time. He goes, I got every my nutrition,
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: everything was absolutely flawless. I got you know, my sleep,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: everything was on. He goes, I show up at the
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: gym that morning. He goes to me and five other guys.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: He goes, he comes in. I think he went to
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: sleep at four in the morning or something. He was
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: out all night and he goes, he ran through all set.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: That's my buddy, Brendan Shaw is.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: That it was the funniest And he goes and then
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: I just knew, you know, that's a that's a level.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: But imagine's being that elite and realizing there's another level.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah. Brendan was a top ten heavyweight and
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: John wasn't even a heavyweight. John was a light heavyweight.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: It was a lower waight class and he just beat
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: everybody's out and he said, this is his warm up,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: everybody up. I mean, he has a unique aptitude for MMA.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: But also he had two brothers.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 3: That were super Jones Yes, played for the pat and Arthur,
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 3: and so.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: These guys are super athletes, and so they're beating the
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: ship out of each other all the time. So they're
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: like constantly in competition with elite athletes from the time
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: he was a child, So he was just so tuned
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: into competition and he was so intelligent, like his fight
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: i Q was above and beyond everyone's and he would
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: study tape meticulously.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: Well that that that's spinning st he where he said
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: he and I think he thanked his taekwondo coach and
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: he said he had been working on this one specific
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: kick from both sides because of something he saw on
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: the tape, and he and he got it off and
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: hit this guy so hard, not even not even on
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: his liver side. He hit him on the other side
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: and you see it shut her through his entire like
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: organ structure.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, his heel was deep into his body cap.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: But it was like although it was so gnarline yeah,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: and but he it's but he he he just practiced
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: this one specific and he was like, goes, it is
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: a devastating shot, Like, yeah, there's not.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 3: A human being who could take that.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: No, it's like getting hit by a car.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because when you're getting hit by a car in
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 3: one spot.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: Thirteen ft watch this he sets him up boom.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: It's just it's like, yeah, no, it's over.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: It's over. It's over.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: And this is John moving up to heavyweight because light
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: heavyweight wasn't a challenge anymore. He decided to become a
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: two division champion. I mean John was a freak. Yeah,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: And by the way, that was almost a little bit
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: glancing because he caught him with a bent leg right
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: he wasn't extended, which you know, was even more devasiting.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: But John realized that as a heavyweight he didn't have
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: the power that he had at light heavyweight, and so
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: he said, the most powerful kick is a spinning back kick.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna work on that kick over and
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: over again because that's the one tool that I have
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: that can knock a heavyweight out with one shot.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's just not just the physicals. If he's also
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 3: like a genius.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: Well, he's also like he's the most meticulous when it
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: comes to game planning and study. He will not take
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: a short notice fight, even a guy that he could
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: fucking beat any day of the week. You can wake
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: him up at three o'clock in the morning, he can
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: fuck that guy up. He will not take that fight
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: unless he gets a full training camp to prepare for
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: that fight. It's just you know, greatness. But John's troubled.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: You know, John's been arrested a bunch of times, and
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: DUIs and all kinds of crazy shit, and he's you know,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: he's a wild fella, and you know, and that pursuit
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: of greatness I'm sure has cost him a lot of
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: shit in his personal life. But you know, when he
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: knocks deep A out and then did the Trump dance
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: in front of the whole world, for that moment, he's
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: on top of the world.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: But then again, it's like the same thing as soon
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: as you get back, like what's next. You know, there's
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: another challenge. It doesn't matter how many people love you now,
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: like it's not good enough. There's someone else looming. You
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: got to beat this guy.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 3: That seems like a kind of an agonizing thing to
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 3: both have the like complete compulsion to have to get
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: to the next level, and the next level keeps fucking
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 3: the goal post.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget. I interviewed Matt Hughes after he lost
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: to bj Penn. He lost the welterweight title to Bjpenn,
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: and I'm interviewing him inside the octagon. He said, I'm
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you. It was actually a relief,
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: and he goes the pressure of being the champion and
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: having someone chasing you for so every in the whole
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: world chasing you. I'm gonna be honest. I thought it
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: was an incredibly brave moment for a guy to say that,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: who is you know, just this fucking amazing human being,
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: this warrior, to say I just gotta be honest. It's
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: a relief. Losing my title feels like a relief. And
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow, like that, that is so so
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: brave to be that honest in front of the because
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: everybody's like, you just got your ass kicked. It's like,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: I'm this is a relief. You know, I took a
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: burden off my back. I'll be back. I'm gonna regroup.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: But I needed that I needed to just step off
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: the fucking top of the hill for a little while.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 3: Breath.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, you.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: Gotta be like a great actually relief to be able
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: to say something nice that, to have a gift is that.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: I feel like you gotta hide or pretend it and
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: go yeah, yeah, it was a lot to carry you.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: You know, well, the thing about fighting is everything you
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: try to hide gets exposed. You're exposed completely during camp
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: because they're doing these these round what they take like yeah, yeah,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: spoke up. They're they're they're taking like, you know, five
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: guys and they're rotating them in with you. So you're
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: doing five rounds with fresh guys. So you got one
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: guy who's fucking warmed up, getting you know, getting ready
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: for you, and then you're fucking out of breath, and
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: they'll give you a thirty second break instead of a minute,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: and then they're throwing in these monsters, and you know,
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: you're exposed, You're you're getting beaten training, you're getting smothered
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: in training, You're you're exhausted. You know, you're always reaching
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: your limits because the only way to surpass those limits
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: is to hit them. You got to hit them, and
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: then they got to figure out where the limit is.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: And Okay, next week, we're gonna do one extra round.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: We're gonna do this, We're gonna do that. We've got
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: to do more strength and conditioning. We're going to push
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: you past wherever your capacity is right now. So you're
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: always breaking, You're always you're always at the point where
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: you can do no more because it's the only way
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: to get and you can only maintain that like the
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: condition that they get in when they step into the octagon.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: It's not possible to maintain that.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 3: No, right, right, you can only get.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you have to peak, and then if you
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: fuck up and overtrain, which a lot of those guys
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: do just because there's such savages and they never want
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: to leave the gym, then they don't peak right, and
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: then they come in and they're exhausted and they didn't
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: recover properly, and then in between rounds they're too tired
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: and they can't go out for the next round. They're
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: too beat up. That happens too.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: I imagine that level of exhaustion has to be just insane.
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: When you overtrain, oh god, in an actual championship and.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: You realized you're there's no you can't bounce back and
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: this guy is fucking blasting your legs with kicks and
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: hitting you with punches and you can't get out of
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: the way anymore.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: Do you think who was it?
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 3: Was it?
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: Khabibu said that they should just do twenty five minute.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: Just a lot of people said that that. I mean,
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: that's what songs and play? What's going on? Fucking technology?
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: The teski brothers playing in my bike.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 3: That's hilarious.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: Sorry about that, well, hoys.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: Gracie always said that, like that was how he fought
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: in the early days.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 3: They just straight twenty five man, because he was like.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: Look, he goes, if we're on the ground, he goes,
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: I don't want them to stand back up again and
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: go in between rounds, and he goes, I need time
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: to cook them. That's what he'd say. Yeah, yeah, I
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: mean that's what jiu jitsu is all about. Jiu jitsu
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: is all about staying one step ahead of you until
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: you become exhausted and you know, and then they eventually
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: finish you like.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 3: A like a.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's the real that's but you know,
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: there's this balance of like making it interesting for this
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: for people to watch. I've been a proponent of no
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: stand ups. Don't ever stand anybody up when a guy
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: takes you down, like you get an advantage at the
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: beginning of the round anyway, because a striker gets to
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: be standing up when you didn't earn it. So you
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: should never get stood up in a fight. I don't
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: care if the guy's doing nothing. If he's holding you
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: down and you can't get up. That's how it should be,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: so it's more realistic. But it's the balance of it
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: being a sport, yeah, making it because people get when
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: people grab someone to take him to the ground, nothing
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: app people goo. You hear the audience, and then the
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: referee gets a little motivated and he stands people up,
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: and I'm always like, ah, don't stand him up.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 3: I never thought of it that way, that any of
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: the round starts to the advantage of.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: The always, always, always you're you're in a position you
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: didn't earn. You never got back up, you know. I
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: think they should put them right back to where they
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: were at the end of the round, because it's one fight,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: it's not five fights. So if you started standing up
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of each round, that's a new fight.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, in a way you're pitching like, how quickly
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: would the UFC go out of business?
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: Real quick?
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: Thirty seconds there on the ground and then it's twenty
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: four and a half minutes.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: A terrible business. I would give the fighters more money.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: I would fuck up the whole business model. I would
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: I would get rid of the cage. I would have
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: them all fight in a basketball court. Just put mats
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: on the ground. In the basketball court. I don't think
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: you should have a cage. I think the cage gets
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: the way becomes a way to get back up because
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: you pressure back up against your cage. I stand back
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: up again, and you're in the middle of the center
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: of a mat. It's very difficult to get back up.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: And that's realistic. You know, you're using a foreign object
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: to help you perform, right. Yeah, but you know there's
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: the whole macho thing about people fighting in a cage
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: and it's like they lock you in there and show Yeah,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: it's just uh but I mean in terms of like
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: inspirational performances and things that you when you see like
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: the human spirit elevated to the highest possible place when
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: two very skilled men or women are fighting in a
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: cage where they prepared for this for three fucking months
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: and then you know the referee is like are you ready?
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: Are you ready? Let's go, And it's like that moment,
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: like is it's not like anything else in all sports.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 3: I think that's the moment that like people show up
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 3: for yecause they build the intense. It's the same with
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 3: like little tyson fights, so well now it's gonna happen. Yeah,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 3: And they're there. You can't help but have that feeling
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 3: once it. You know, Yeah, some fights end up being
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: disappointed whatever, but they're that moment is always there.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: Well, Tyson was a crazy example of what we were
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: talking about with greatness, because like you could dedicate your
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: whole life, you could fucking get up in the morning
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: at the right time, you could eat all the right foods,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: you could do all the right training. Then you see
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: that guy, there's nothing I can.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 3: Do, I have no change look in his eye. The
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: only fighters where you just see the other guy was scared. Yeah,
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: Usually they at least homes up together where they come
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 3: off like, oh, I don't know, this guy looks pretty tough.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: Guys would fight Tyson and just with starting they'd feel
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 3: that moment ship they're letting this tiger out here he
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 3: comes and it was like.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: Well, we're old enough to remember when he was in
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: his prime, and those fights were like executions you didn't
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: want to pay.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: I swear. I mean, I mean, Jamie might be able
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: to prove me wrong, but I'm pretty sure that they
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: cut to Alex Stewart and they cut to his wife
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: and she was crying, and this is when they're coming
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: to the center of the ring. But by the way,
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: for good reason, like this man might kill my husband,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: We're certainly going to beat the fuck out of him,
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: and she knows it and the world knows it.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: And guys were ready to quit. That dude, Hurricane or whatever.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 3: White kid who fought him couldn't wait to throw the
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 3: talent yet it ready, like you know, he was ready
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 3: to go, right, that's the bell rings he picks up
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 3: the table life, you know what I mean.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: Mcneely's fucked up now too. When you hear him talk,
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: it's rough. It's rough to hear.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 3: Really.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw him get interviewed recently. That's the dark
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: side of the sport of m M A and A fighting,
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: you know. You you talk like I had Johnny Knoxville
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: on here yesterday and Johnny Knoxville was knocked unconscious sixteen times. Yeah,
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: that's what I said. And I'm like, holy shit, man,
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: And he seems normal, Like he doesn't seem like he's
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: got brain damage. Now, when you're talking to guys and
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: you know they have brain damage, they're slurring their words
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: and they're still fighting, and their words all mumbled together,
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: like you have no idea how much they're struggling, like,
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: and they're they're going to be struggling in a downhill
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: slope for the rest of their life. It's not going
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: to get better. It's going to get way worse because
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: the real brain damage occurs like ten years after the injuries.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: That's what it really SAIDs that just keeps ask keeps
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: getting worse. I mean, there's some therapies that they can do. Now,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: there's like they do in Knoxville to some of it,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: like this magnetic therapy that they do that restimulates neuron growth.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: And oddly enough, mushrooms like psilocybin has been shown to reener.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 3: A sudden cure a whole bunch of shit.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: I now, well probably always has.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 3: You know, all of a sudden, the acknowledging it.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, one of the things that's opening the doors
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: for them to acknowledge it is soldiers because it's always
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: been kind of like a left wind wing thing to
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: be into psychedelics. But all these soldiers are coming back
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: with PTSD and drug addiction and a lot of CTE
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: from you know, bombs blowing up and IDs and concussions,
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: and the only thing that's helping them is psychedelics. So
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like in Texas, Uh, former Governor Rick
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: Perry has started the I Begaining initiative, So they're using
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: ibagain to help all of these different soldiers, which is
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: ironically the drug that Hunter S. Thompson claimed Ed Muskie
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: was on when he was running for president. Yeah, everybody's
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: saying Ed Musky's what is. It's from the Aboga tree,
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: and it is a psychedelic that is in no way recreational.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: It is a very difficult experience. It's not fun for anybody.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: It's like a twenty four hour trip. I haven't done it,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: but my friends that have done it say that it's
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: basically like you see your entire life play out before you.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: You see where all your problems come from. You see
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: where all of your emotional hitches are. Yeah, and with addictions,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: it has an eighty percent eighty I think it's eighty
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: four percent. With one treatment, they quit whatever they're hooked on.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: Not only that rewires the brain, so the physical pathways
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: to addiction, like someone who just stick to opiates, gone
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: completely severed. So you literally don't have a physical addiction
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: to opiates anymore. So with one treatment, eighty plus percent
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: of people with two treatments. It's in the nineties.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: It's amazing.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: It's amazing, and it's been illegal, you know, since like
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy in this country. The sweetings psycholata. But Rick Perry,
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: because he's worked with soldiers and because he's worth a
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: lot of veterans that you know, and he's a very
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: compassionate and intelligent man, he realized like, Okay, maybe I'm
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: wrong about all this psychedelic stuff, and so he started
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: getting behind this. I began initiative. They passed it in Texas,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: and now they're doing it with soldiers, and they're gonna
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: do it with police officers. And I mean police officers
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: experienced more PTSD. Like I have a good friend who
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: was a cop in Austin, and he said, and he
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: was also in the military, and he said, what I
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: saw in the military was nothing compared to what I
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: saw as a police officer. Really, he goes, I was
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: seeing death and violence on a on a daily basis.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: He goes, when you're deployed, he goes, yeah, you're gonna
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: you're gonna see some horrible ship, but you're gonna see
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: some horrible ship mixed in, you know, over a course
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: of time where you know, you go out and and
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: things go live.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: He goes like every day, every day, you're going directly
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: every day but having the worst moment of their life.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: And every day you're pulling someone over and they might
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: shoot you, like you have no idea. You're you're pulling
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: up to tinted windows, you don't know what the fuck
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: is going on. You're running the plate, the license has expired,
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: you have no idea who's in the car. You don't
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: you don't know anything. And you've seen all the videos.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: We've all seen videos of cops getting shot down, like
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: when they're pulling over a car. We've all seen it.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: And so these guys are living with this fucking PTSD
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: all the time, and then they have to live in
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: real life. They're supposed to go home and they're supposed
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: to just be a normal dad and a normal neighbor,
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: and their fucking head is just a hurricane of chaos.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: And I begain has been very beneficial for those people
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: to just just sort of come down and try to
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: find the root of all this stuff and get them
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: off pills and get them on the straight.
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. I don't know why we got on the mushrooms.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: Well I began because during the truck during the presidential elections,
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: he started spreading these rumors. And it's in the documentary,
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: I get, what is it that documentary? Is it Fear
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: and Loathing? Gonzo Gonzo? That's right in that documentary Gonzo.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: He talks about it. So he's getting interviewed by Dick
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: Cavott and he goes, he goes, yeah, he goes, there
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: was a room wor running around that Ed Muski was
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: on I Begain and I knew about it because uh
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: I started that rumor, but he told it to him,
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: So the guy completely cracked. So like this guy was
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: like a front runner for the president and he was
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: completely cracked because everybody thought that he was on drugs
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: because Hunter s. Thompson was just running around like saying,
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: there's Brazilian witch. Doctors are coming in to treat this guy.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. Ship that's great, they were like.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 3: An Hunter would know, but it's crazy that he.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: Chose I Be Again too, because I Be Again is like,
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: it's not a recreational drug and it's not a drug
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: of addiction. It's literally a drug that stops it.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 3: But he was the guy that would have the full
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 3: the whole book's full of these drugs you never heard of.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 3: It's just really casual way of course, stop to get
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 3: again at the one gas station, the shoulder needles and nothing. Yeah, sure, no,
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 3: of course.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it does help people that have brain damage
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: as well. It's it's supposed to like cause some sort
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: of neural regeneration. Yeah, yeah, there's stuff out there that
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: canna help people, but uh, the large percentage of these
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: fighters are silently suffering and we don't ever hear about it.
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 3: They say, like it's supposed to be that. It's like
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 3: the argument is is because it's you know, they're not
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 3: using a glove like that football is supposed to be
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 3: where I mean, it wasn't that the sort of rationale
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 3: that like you were going to have less impact in
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 3: boxing because they're the boxing gloves, But it's remembered.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: It's all it's like the subconcussive blows. It's like it's
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: not necessarily the one shot knocking you out as much
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: as the repeated kind of like small like little bit
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: of brain.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 3: I'm sure that's like they're all bad for you. You
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 3: know what I mean, and like a version of not
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 3: to the head.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's also what you take in training too.
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: We're only considering what happens during a fight. The guy
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: that's forty fifty mma, FI.
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 3: It's that's for how many rounds that you have right
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 3: in them.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, training camp is fucking brutal, and depending upon how
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: intelligent your camp is. Like, some people are really smart
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: and they'll spar where they're not hitting each other hard
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: and then maybe one day of the week they go live.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: But you do it with trusted you know, they're they're
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: very close to you. These are people that you care
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: about and love, so they're not going to try to
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: hurt you on purpose. But sometimes not, Like sometimes you're
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: in a hostile gym and you know you got to
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: spar with people you don't even know. They're from other countries,
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: you have a big name, they're trying to take you out.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: You know it's a but the the amount of damage
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: these guys take me, I don't know. Football is better
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: or worse. They're all. The thing about football is the
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: big impacts are way worse because when you've got a
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: three hundred pounds super athlete, that's fucking full till all
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: the ways. Yeah, you're getting hit by a truck and that,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't it's it's not targeted necessarily at your head.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: So it's like, what what is better and what is worse?
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: You know, boxing's bad, you know, it's like you have
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: less options. MMA is slightly better because, especially if you're
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: a grappler, you can take guys down and you can
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: beat them up on the ground. But it's ultimately you're
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: paying a price. Yeah, sure, but for that glory, for
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: that one moment when they win and the fucking sixteen
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: thousand people are on their feet screaming. There's probably no
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: drug like that that could ever reproduce it. And those
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: guys chase that high their entire life, and then after
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: it's over, they you know, they feel oddly detached.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 3: Right, and rises to that level again.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: Right, you can make films until you're one hundred years old.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: You know, you can make great films forever. You can
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: do the thing that you love forever. They have a
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: little window, a little window.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 3: Great really tough thing about being an athlete. Like you
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 3: were talking to Pete Samprus that time we met some
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 3: years ago, and he was like, we were probably know,
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 3: we were thirty was thirty two or something like that,
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 3: and he was kind of We're like, oh my god,
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 3: he had all these fucking you know, wins and Grand
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 3: slams and he had to kind of vaguely like yeah.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 3: He was like, yeah, you guys like I'm about to retire.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 3: It's if I'm finished, and we're you.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: Know, young guys, were you know, just getting started, you
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like we're Also the thing is
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: you get better at your job the more you do it, yeah.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: And so that's that thing with the athlete. I was
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: having this conversation the other day. It's like, you have
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: all the physical skills at the beginning, but you become
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: a better, you know, better at your sport. Yeah, you know,
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: as your skills are declining.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 3: The body just doesn't want to do it anymore, and
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: you've got to just come like become Greg Maddox, you know,
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 3: and compensate with all the tricks and location. And but
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 3: that's why that drama of like the aging athlete is
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 3: so powerful. We still have it. It's like, all, do
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 3: we still have it in me?
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: Can I still do it?
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 3: How long? You know? Is what I've learned enough to
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 3: compensate for what I've lost. You know.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: Well, there's an interesting story about vtor Belfert. So vtor
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: Belfert was he won the UFC Heavyweight Tournament when he
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: was nineteen years old. That was like the first event
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: I ever worked at in nineteen ninety seven. I mean,
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: he was like one of the all time greats for sure,
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: but as he was getting into his thirties, he was
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: starting to decline. Then the UFC allowed fighters to use
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: testosterone replacement therapy, and boy did he fucking use it. Okay,
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know what his levels were, but they were
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: like superhuman levels. And there was a moment in time
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: for a few years where they allowed him to use
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: testosterone therapy and people referred to it as the trt
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: V tour years because he was fucking terrifying because he
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: has the mind of a veteran r an incredible amount
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: of experience, but now his body is moving like a
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: twenty five year old and so he was just annihilating people,
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: just lighting people on fire.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: So they're not allowed to use testosterone or no, they
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: can't use anything, no, no jo, How about peptides can
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: use Nope, Nope, not even peptide.
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: They're trying to take that and reform that, but there's
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of ignorance about peptides what they actually do.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: I mean all it's allowing you do soft tissue injuries,
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: heal quicker, and optimize your body's ability to produce hormones.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: So instead of adding exogenous hormones, you're allowing your body
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: to produce them more naturally, and it'll it just makes
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: you more healthy for a very unhealthy job where you're
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: you know, you're getting hurt all the time. It's it's
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: going to be better for the sport, better for the
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: athletes to allow them to all use it. And it's
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: also there's no long term damage that's going to do
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: like steroids where it shuts down your endocrine system. So
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: I hope they reform it. But the idea was that
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: there's so many fucking loopholes and so many people cheat.
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: Big camps used to hire scientists, so they had a
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: scientist on staff that was not only yeah exactly, not
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: only procuring stuff that that would slip by the test.
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: Because there's like you know, the Balco stuff with very
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: about to clear clear. There's there's stuff probably right now
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: that people are using that's slipping through, and there's a
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: lot of experts that have like one of the things
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: is animal derived testosterone, So testosterone one of the they
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: use a carbon isotope test. I think I believe that's
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: what they use to figure out where the testosterone came from.
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: So if your testosterone is like at a very high level,
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: they test all your other ratios and go, well, no,
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: it all seems likely. He's just he's an outlier. He
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: just has naturally high testosterone. But testosterone that you get
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: from like synthetic testosterone is derived from a wild yam,
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: I believe it or not. Yes, yes it's not. It's
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: not animal derived testosterone. So the composite of it varies
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: when they run the tests on it, and they can determine.
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: It's exauged, just not in dodge.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: But if they can figure out a way to and
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of proof of concept of this, can
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: they figure out a way to extract testosterone from animal
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 1: sources something like that. They used to inject Hitler with torurine.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: You know, Hitler was like a fucking guinea pig for
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: this one doctor who tried to bunch of shit on
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: them and one of the things they did was like
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: injecting with bold testicles and stuff to try to keep
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: them virile. Yeah, but but there probably are athletes right
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 1: now that are using some ship that they haven't figured
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: out yet, So give them any loopholes at all. They're like, no,
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: no fucking no loopholes. No ivs, no nothing, no iv
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: itamins right, But the problem with ivs is you can
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: mask testosterone and and and mask steroids by overflooding the
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: body with liquids. So you over so then when you yes,
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: you would just fill them up with saline and then
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: when they go to piss, like no clean ratio because
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: it's like so much water is being processed through the
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: body that it doesn't have time to show the testos.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: So there's a way to mask it, especially with like
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: things that you would add to the ivy. So there's
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: no you can it's only food and approved supplements through
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: like really high level labs like Thorn and what Thorn
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: supplements where it's third party tested, So they don't they
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: can't do anything. But for a while they let him
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: do it. And those TRTV tour days are my favorite
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 1: fights to watch.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 3: Did they stop doing it fighting because they thought it
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 3: was like advantaging certain people, or they shit happened that.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 3: They're like, this is fucked up.
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: Or well they they look at the difference. That's TRTV
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: Tour on the left and that's him on the right
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: when they made him get off of it. Look at
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: the difference. I mean, that's fucking stunning on the left. Though, Dude,
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: that motherfucker was terrifying. When Luke Rockhold fought him, he
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: told me, he goes, Dude, when I stood next to
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: him at the fucking winds, he had muscles on his teeth.
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: He goes, This fucking dude was so jacked. He was
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: so scared. I was like, what the fuck is he on?
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: He goes, He knew he was on something. It's just
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: it's cheating, it really is, because you can jack your
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: levels way above a normal human beings. Because that's what
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys. There was a few fighters that
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: were pulled from cards because, like say, if of really
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: high levels like eleven hundred, they were testing like eighteen
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: nineteen hundred, they were like people that have never lived before.
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: They were like a science project, a different species, and
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: they were insane and sant confidence because they were essentially
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: like a rage and Gorilla. They were just insanely confident
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: and just it's just so fired up. They couldn't wait
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: to smash somebody because they were just fucking maniacal. They're
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: a berserker, you know. So you it's not a person
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: anymore now now you're a science project. It's not you know,
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: there are rare outliers who like Tyson when he was
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: in his prime, it's rare physical specimens and like that's
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: part of the game. But that's god, you know, that's nature.
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 1: This is not you know, Balco Labs, and so they
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: won't allow him to do anything anymore. And that's why
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: it's because too many and Vitor was one of the
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: guys that tested like way over the line and then
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: they got decided like yeah, but that's what they're going
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: to do.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: If you say, if you say it's legal, they're just
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 2: going to take it.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: And you know, yeah, if you say you did one
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: CC a week, they're like, I heard five, I heard five.
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: And these guys are just training five times a day
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: and they never get tired and they recover like that,
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: so and they never have to worry about soft tissuy
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: injuries because they heal like you're a fucking six year old.
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: You know, you just your body just like yeah, oh yeah, man.
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: Well that's the thing about peptides to the wolverine stack
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: BP one five seven and TV five hundred. I don't
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: know if you ever get injured, if you ever get injured,
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: get immediately on BP one five seven and TB five hundred.
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear about TV five hundred.
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: What's that one thymison BETA five hundred. Yes, in conjunction
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: with BPC one five to seven. It is a fucking
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: phenomenal stack and just really helps injury.
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: That's what they call it, the wolverine stack. Yeah, because
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: you heal incredibly well, like you like it quickly. I
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: was talking to pro football player pulled his hamstring. He's like, dude,
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: I shot that ship right into my hamstring. For two
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: weeks and I was right back on the field. I
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: was like, that's nuts. I go, what does a normal rehab?
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: He goes three months? He goes in two weeks. I
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: was back on the field. I go, what the fuck
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: he goes. I don't know how bad the injury was.
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: He goes, but to me, it's like, fuck, I pulled
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: my hamstring. I'm fucked now for x them out of days.
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: He goes in two weeks later, I was playing full
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: tilt like that's nuts.
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 3: And going right into the area of the injury, right
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 3: into it.
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: Some people think you don't have to do that. They
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: think it's you know, systemic, so you just like stick
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 1: it in your fat, on your on your side. But
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: he's like no, And most athletes will tell you the
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: best benefit is local. Shoot it locally into the area,
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: and it just has like Courtison, what is the Yeah, courtizone,
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: But courtizone just masksim. Not only that it has a
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: tendency if you do it too many times to weaken tendons. Yeah,
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: and so it could actually exacerbate the problem because it
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: takes away the pain. Yeah, it takes away the pain.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, then there's the enhanced games
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: that are coming out in Vegas is here where they're.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: My friend had that idea a long time ago. He
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: was like, you should just do the drug Olympics for cash.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: He goes, do it in Vegas for cash, and then
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: then they're doing it like they're doing it.
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just like I'm down. Let's see it as
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 3: a human beings.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: That's what I think. I mean, look when Barry Bonds
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: and you know, Sammy Sosa and those guys were cracking
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: out home runs, it.
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 3: Was one of the most pretty when they didn't do anything.
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 3: It was not a fucking mystery to anybody, but Avery's
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 3: tuning in the Bash Brothers baseball on a strike. You know,
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 3: they were almost fucking destroyed that league. And then people
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 3: started watching they got run and then Bonds is like, well,
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 3: these two fucking guys are as many home runs, I'm
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 3: the best player in baseball, which he was, yep, and
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 3: he did it lights out. Yeah, you know what I mean.
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 3: He had a year where he only swung and missed
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 3: twenty six times, one hundred and sixty two games, three
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 3: and a half half bats a game, only swung and
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 3: missed twenty I mean, it's just you know, and yeah,
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 3: maguire get like just like move his wrists to get
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 3: the ball out of the park, and it was like,
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 3: it's fun to watch.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: And when people say, like, steroids don't make you a
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: better athlete, Oh they don't.
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 3: Maybe don't make.
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: You a better yeah. Yeah, if you're fucking buried, you're.
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 3: Already an elite athlete. Yeah.
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: If you let just Jones's do all the juice he wants.
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: He'd be fighting until he's fifty and fucking people up,
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: and he'll say, John, we've we've really come to our senses.
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: Like this sport's all about excitement when you give the
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: people what they want, give people, let people make informed
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: choices based on their own discretion.
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's welcome back. Then.
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: Also, John looks like v Tour in that picture. He'd
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: be undefeated by the way John beat Vtur when Vtor
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: was in his prime and Vtor caught John in a
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: full arm bar, totally locked his arm out, hyper extended,
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: popped it went backwards. You can see the video of it.
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: His elbow is going that way. He wouldn't tap and
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: then beat him in the next round with one arm yep,
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: one arm. His arm was fucked for like a year
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: after that.
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, give that man some steroids.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: Steroid the King of the World.
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, the Dream Team. It's like, remember the first
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 3: time the pros went to the Olympics. Whatever, what every
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 3: game by seventy points. Yeah, it wasn't close, but it
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 3: was a hell of a lot of fun.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: It was. Well, the argument for that made sense though,
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: because like these other people are being compensated in their countries.
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I had no problem with them. By the way,
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 3: now it's got more of that. Last Olympic Championship was
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 3: that was a great game against France. That was fabulous.
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 3: You know. I mean, yeah, they they're they're gonna wreck
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 3: some smaller countries and stuff. But okay, that you're playing pros.
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 3: They're playing pros. No definition of amateurism has gotten a
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 3: little bit like you know, yes, it's it's it's like
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 3: people find like a convenient definition of it according to
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 3: what's there you're seeing. College sports is changing and stuff
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 3: like like I got no problem if you're gonna apply
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 3: the rules evenly. But sometimes when it feels like it's
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 3: just an excuse to like for the NCAAA to make
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 3: a billion dollars off the TV deal and like no, no, no,
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 3: you guys you're getting you're getting education, right. It's like
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 3: a little bit like, yeah, in education, you guys made
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 3: a lot of money because people want to see Nebraska
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 3: plays exploitation.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm glad they've changed that with college sports
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: because these guys are the reason why you're filling up
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: the seats and they deserve that money.
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 3: Not even when them's gonna be in the NFL, you
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 3: know what I mean. Some that's their way to make
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 3: that money, you know what I mean. Like it's hard.
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: It's hard, and the risk of catastrophic injury is always.
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 3: There, constant, constant.
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and the metrics for it's like what
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: is it a two and a half year career or
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: something average depending on your position. But I mean, it's
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 2: it's such a lot.
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 3: It seems just fair. And obviously you pay a kid
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 3: to flip a cheeberger out of college, but not.
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: To like right, you know, come on, well, that's a
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: great thing about doing something where you're not relying on
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: your body like acting. You can you can kind of
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 1: do it forever, you.
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 3: Know, keep going till you lose it, you know. Yeah,
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 3: it's really yeah, it's great, and it's got its own
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 3: competitive aspect in this lot, you know, but like, okay,
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 3: great if it's if you get willing to better yourself
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 3: and then the expectations, well, I got to do something
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 3: that's interesting enough that people want to watch it. That's
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 3: the proposition.
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: How do you guys decide, like on projects that you choose,
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: Like I'm sure you have so many options. Now, like,
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: what what makes you say this is what I'm going
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: to spend the next six month doing.
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: It's really I mean, there are a bunch of different factors,
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: like like the director is being the most importan one.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 2: But but if you read a script and and like
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: we've read so many thousands and thousands of scripts and
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 2: written so many scripts and worked on so many movies
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: that that if if we read something and it and
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: it's that thing we were talking about earlier, you know,
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 2: you get that get that kind of emotional something happens
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: when you read it. You go, okay, well, then you
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: then you pay attention to it, maybe read it again,
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: go wait a minute. You know, if if it, if
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: it moves you in that in that way, then you know,
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 2: ultimately the big decision is saying yes, because because you're
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 2: going to spend the last point.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 3: Of which you have total control, you know, and then
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 3: you're in.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 2: Then you're in and and you're and you're in whether
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: it's good or bad. I mean, I've been on those
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 2: movies where I knew a month into a six month
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: shoot that like this is not going to work, and
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: that that is that is the like it works, it
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 2: is I I came to think of that, we're.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 3: Going to shoot us all when it comes out.
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, it's like it's it's like it's it's gonna
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 2: be it's gonna be eighty sixteen hours days in a row,
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 2: and then a post production period that's gonna be pretty
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 2: fraud and then it's gonna come out and we're gonna
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: get fucking.
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: Crushed, and then you're gonna have to sell it.
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 3: You're gonna have to use the fucking plank and sit
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 3: down with access.
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: Like so the movie, how important is that stuff still today?
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: Like the press stuff? Is that still important?
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 3: It is?
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know to what degree each specific thing is.
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 3: I mean ironic because we were talking about coming on
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 3: this show today and we've been saying I was like,
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 3: we were doing this show. This is probably more meaningful
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 3: than the rest of the ship we do in aggregate
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 3: to promote this.
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: Movie, Like we spent this whole week in New York
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 2: doing you know, I don't know how many interviews, you know,
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 2: the quick ones.
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 3: With all the Outlet five interviews, all the evening shows,
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 3: the day shows, all that stuff, and and this just
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 3: given how many people listen to the show, will be
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 3: more meaningful, but we think, I mean, that's our we
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 3: were speculating historically, right, if you look at it, that's
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 3: it because they've changed to like all of it feels
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 3: kind of produced and forced and advertised, and people have
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 3: become resistant to anything that feels kind of like a
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 3: gimmick and a stick. And you go on and do
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 3: your song and dance and they say the thing. It
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 3: looks great, and nobody cares like they're looking to go
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 3: either because somebody they know says it's interesting, or somebody
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 3: that they trusted, and a trusted person is in like
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 3: your like you say your feed right, and it's your
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 3: friend or your your cousin, or it's or they affix
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 3: that to somebody, which has become a more rare thing,
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 3: like who's like a legitimate neutral arbiter, right who? I
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 3: can't predict what they're gonna say before I go there.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 3: There are a few of those, fewer and fewer of
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 3: those people in the world. Even those are proliferation of
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 3: more and more voices, and it's kind of paradoxical, like
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 3: the form of entertainment is getting shorter and shorter and shorter,
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 3: so you're like a seven second you know, we an
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 3: advertising company. We do most of the spots that we
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 3: were with, like fifteen second spots, six second spots for
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 3: social ones most people see. And then there's this one
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 3: form which is like long form discussions that are whatever
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 3: two hours long. And the amazing to me is, you know,
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 3: in a world where it seems like you can't get
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 3: people to pay attention more than you know, a few seconds,
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 3: there's a kind of a hunger for that, So there's
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 3: like this form and that's why you see these are
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 3: getting more popular. Obviously have this massive audience, and it's
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 3: and it's kind of flying in the face of the
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 3: whole other trend. And I think, and I don't know
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 3: that it probably has something to do with like, who
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 3: do I think is authentic? And am I actually be
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 3: willing to extend my two hours of my time to
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 3: sit there and listen through And that an argument that
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 3: people probably do appreciate and understand conversations that have context
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 3: and nuance and where there's like a back and forth.
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 3: They're just much more selective about who they're willing to
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 3: kind of give that sort of voice to in their life.
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: It's also the voice of the public too, because when
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: people start talking about things online, and things go viral
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 1: online and people just start like saying how great they
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 1: love the film, or how great this album is or
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: something like that. It just takes off organically now, and
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: that has more more weight than anything.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 3: If you feel like somebody else who obviously has no
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 3: dog in the fight, is going, hey, this is great,
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 3: you should see it. I'm the same thing if I
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 3: hear somebody tell me, like, you know who I respect, Yeah,
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 3: you gotta see that thing. That means more to me
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 3: than anything, right, because I believe that. And so if
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 3: the closer you can get to that, which is why
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 3: I think the act of hey, like telling the same
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 3: you know, like telling the same story about you should
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 3: go see the movie to a bunch of people who
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 3: with a certain like limited reach. It's just it's just
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 3: not that efficient. But you have to because it's like, well,
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 3: we sat down with our own infestial sanaka and talked
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 3: about the you know, and you kind of do that
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 3: ostensibly because it means a little bit more in that
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 3: in that market. But I think ultimately it's it's like
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 3: more and more people see realize they're being sold to
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 3: see through the fucking act and the sort of bullshit
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 3: of it. They reckonie that you know, you go out
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 3: and sell every movie, you know what I mean, the
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 3: good and the bad, and then we got to decide,
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 3: well which one and who can you count on? Well,
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 3: it's mostly going to be that like the word of mouth,
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 3: your friend, and now you can see that person in
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 3: your media experience, you know.
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's also we know that when you're
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: sitting down with extra or these things, like that's just
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: their job to sit down with people. They're not doing
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: it because they want to, right. You know, It's like
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 1: they got told go talk to that personaly, and.
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 3: We got told go talk to them, and so I
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 3: go do the ritual and they say the thing they say,
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 3: and we say the thing we say, and everyone goes
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 3: home and says, we did our job.
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 1: That's the benefit of an independent podcast is that, like,
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: like with me, if I don't talk to anybody I
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: don't want to talk to it's just like I literally
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: do the whole thing on my phone. I go, oh, yeah,
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: that sounds cool, and that's it.
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 3: But like that I think means a lot. At least
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 3: this person is making this choice, and I've listened to
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 3: it a bunch and I actually find myself agreeing with
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 3: a lot of the time, so all right, I'll give
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 3: it a shot. That you know, it's exact.
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 2: I think also like this format, Like at least I
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: know why why I started listening to podcasts was because
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: in the world, like the divisive kind of the way
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 2: everybody was talking these sound bites and all this shit,
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 2: and and it was just like the ability to just
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: listen to human beings talk often who who had different
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 2: points of view but like had a civil conversation was
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 2: like it was such a welcome thing, you know, given
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: the given the kind of the hysterical kind of you know,
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 2: uh frenzy of of of of divisiveness that's kind of
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 2: it just feels it's just like, you know, it's like
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 2: if I open my phone and look at the news,
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 2: it was like, fuck, it's like put it down.
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 3: It's just it's it's like I feel my cortisol level
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 3: go up.
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: And to actually hear people, listen to people I know
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 2: I don't agree with, but listen to them and just
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: and just think about it, you know what I mean.
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, approach life with a little bit of humility,
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 2: not to hold on to what you believe obvious, but
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 2: but but keep listening.
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 1: It's also there's not a lot of opportunities in the
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: real world to have long conversations with people, so people
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 1: are kind of starving for that.
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 3: I know. Funny that this has become the shared cultural
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 3: like we listened to that podcast and then actually experience
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 3: that because and also people, why don't people trust the media, Well,
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 3: because the media doesn't do that, because they compress it,
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 3: and because the truth is money, because actually doing that
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 3: is not with Money's just ratings and the perceived idea
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 3: that like, well, if you simplify it, or you you
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 3: position it one way, or that you engender outrage and
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 3: that's simple or just you know, pure one sided ideas
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 3: that are that are simple, you know. But the news
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 3: used to be the idea was, look, here's the FCC.
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 3: We're gonna let these networks broadcast their shows and make
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 3: money on it. But here's the deal. You got to
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 3: give an hour of that and lose money on that
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 3: hour to tell the news and try to tell it objectively.
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 3: Then it started to be no, you got to make
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 3: money for that hour too, And if you're gonna make money,
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 3: that's a different incentive. Then tell the truth. Or report
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 3: theres or any of those things, and people try to
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 3: hybridize them. But at the end of the day, you're
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 3: a more successful reporter if more people watch you, because
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 3: advertisers pay more, and then they're doing the same thing
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 3: looking at their data. You know, grand, what are people watching?
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 3: What kinds of stories? And I think it's a simple
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 3: answers because you're just you're making it into a profit game.
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 3: Those incentives are not aligned with just trying to get
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 3: down to like even reporting basic facts.
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a weird time. It's like we have more
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 1: access to information than ever before, but so much of
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 1: it is just horseshit. You know, it's hard to stay balanced,
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 1: and I think that's why it's good to like listen
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 1: to people just talk and then you recognize like the
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: flaws and they're thinking, you feel ego, you feel deception, bullshit.
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 3: You know, true people will reveal themselves like you. Actually,
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 3: we actually don't need that many editorialists to be constantly
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 3: telling us what to think and how to think, because
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 3: people actually have pretty good instincts. You know, was bullshit,
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 3: and you eventually they'll kind of hang themselves, like you said,
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 3: you'll get that vibe ah, after a while he kind
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 3: of started repeating his shtick and I kind of didn't
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 3: really talk about what I was wondering about. And you
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 3: form your own that's like forming your own judge.
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: Pete footage Ide actually talked about that being dangerous on podcasts.
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 1: He's like, cause you you go on there and you
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: have your points, but you'll get revealed over the course
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 1: of a few hours, like you can only stick to
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 1: these lines talking points.
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 3: And bullshit, and then and then what happens to people
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 3: just like there was an art to like, look at
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 3: how great they're communicator. They stick to the message and
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 3: they do their points. Okay, thirty seconds, sixty seconds, but
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 3: any longer than that it just starts to look like
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 3: a fucking robot on you know, And like I said,
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 3: what we need to follow through with you know, like yeah,
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 3: sometimes you have the same hand gesture and the same
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 3: bit with that. But I'm you know, sometimes you.
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 1: Find out they're full of shit just by having them
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: talk about other things, you know, like tell me do
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 1: you like cooking? You know, like just like and then
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: you just see like some concoct did they're.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 3: Thinking, what makes me look good if about cooking? Tell
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 3: you what because like, do I cook or do I not?
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 3: What does that make me feminine or does it make
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 3: me open to cultural? Yeah? What do you like to cook? Man?
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 3: I don't cook. You know.
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the other thing about people that are online
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 1: too much is they're so concerned with other people's opinions
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 1: that they don't have enough time to formulate their own.
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 1: They're just so concerned with how people are going to
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: perceive everything you say that you're like handcuffed. You're like
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: terrified to misspeak.
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 3: Right right. I think that in general is a real danger.
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 3: I mean we were talking the other day. We were
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 3: saying about like one of the benefits of getting older
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 3: and doing this for a long time is you realize,
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 3: like nobody really gives a ship as much about you
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 3: as you know, you just kind of kind of nobody
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 3: like this is really important. And then you realize, I'm
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 3: gonna come off and what's going to be a people
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 3: know act.
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 2: It's not that big a deal.
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 3: Nobody. Most people are mostly worrying about themselves in their life,
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 3: and yeah, there's this illusion that they pay a passing
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 3: moment attention or it's in some story or it's like
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 3: you're fucking staring at it because it's about you. You know.
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 3: You know that you said that about me. Nobody else really,
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 3: nobody care.
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if they do, they're usually fucked up, like
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 1: something's wrong. White, concentrating on this other person's life, probably
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 1: trying to ignore your own bullshit. Yeah, well, listen, man,
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 1: your movie's fucking awesome. I've loved so much of your
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 1: films over the years, so it's been really cool to
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 1: be able to have you guys in here and talk
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 1: about this. It's been great. Thank you too, very normal,
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 1: nice movie stars. You guys are cool as fun.
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 2: Give us a couple more hours.
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed it, and I really enjoyed the rip. It's
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: fucking great, and everybody go see it. It's great. I
• 2:23:48
  Speaker 1: loved it. Thank you, thanks for being here, all right
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 1: by everybody,