Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Men these Hobbies Give Women the Ick! | Maintaining Frame 119

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Men these Hobbies Give Women the Ick! | Maintaining Frame 119 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome to Honey Badger Radio and this today's episode
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: of Maintaining Frame number one nineteen. I have it right
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: in front of me. That's why I remembered men these
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: hobbies give women the ick. I'll be your host, Alison,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: and with me is Brian and we're going to be
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: covering a video on well, a video on a infographic
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: that appeared on Twitter that indicated which hobbies women like
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the least and a discussion.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Specifically which hobbies that men participated. Which of men's hobbies
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: is the least attractive.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: To women exactly? And this was originally a response and
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I guess a series of thoughts by the distributionist on YouTube.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: The distributist, the distributist, the distributist, thank you stist.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been on the lotus eaters. I think so
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: kind of like I would say, adjacent to them.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So I found most I found some
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: of his stuff had merit. I think that he could
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: have gone deeper in certain places. And of course I
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: believe that he suffers from what everybody suffers, which is
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: that they look at the world through the lens of
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: how it benefits women, which is I guess unfortunate, but
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: also in many cases unavoidable. I'm not going to say
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: he's the worst defender, and I doubt he'd even be
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: considered the most unconscious, like un self aware offender either.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: He probably would say, yeah, that's that's a really critical
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: point in my life, is that I want to make
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: sure that I am appealing to women. And so I mean,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: it was, it wasn't. I went through this, I transcripted it.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I read quite a bit of it. It is a
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: three hour stream, so it's a three and a half
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: hour stream, so it is a lot of material. It
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: was a request by the Great Indoors, so thank you,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Great Indoors. Hopefully this response is everything you hope for.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I focused my attention on the first forty to fifty
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: minutes because that's where I think he did most of
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: his analysis. After that he just gets into which hobbies
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: he personally doesn't seem to like. He At one point,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: he's talking about war games, and he seems to have
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: a bit of an issue dismissing them completely because veterans
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: of wars actually like them, so he thinks that there
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: must be more.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So essentially he is discussing maybe he's trying to
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: figure out why this this graph is true or what
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: makes it like a meritable thing to talk about, and
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: why it shouldn't be dismissed or have like the sort
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: of like you know, reaction that it got from men
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: on Twitter. And he's basically making the case for it
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: in defense of this graph, right, And what he says
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: essentially is that, I mean, we could just listen to someone.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But essentially he is saying that hobbies or interests or
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: entertainment that men have are better if those are going
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: to add something to them to make them better men
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: in the world. So like wargaming being popular with actual warriors,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: he can make a correlation and say, well, they do
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: benefit because in the real world there's this and then
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: there's like stuff that I guess you don't get anything
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: out of, you know, and he probably thinks that they
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: are lesser hobbies. That's my guess. I don't know. Am
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I making sense?
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, you're making sense. You're tying it in.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And I think, yeah, a hierarchy, it's a hierarchy.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: The first bit of what he says the first like
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: four minutes, basically outlines his thesis. I think he goes
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: into detail later. I have sort of an observation of
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: how he framed this that I think is really interesting,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: and I'll go into it after we maybe hear a
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: little bit from the person in question. But before we
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: do that, I just like to remind everyone we are
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: doing a monthly fundraiser. Sorry that it's come right at
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the heels of our meetup fundraiser, but there's not much
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: we can do about that, because you know, things go
• 5:17
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• 5:20
  Speaker 1: So feed the badger dot com Slash support if you
• 5:23
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• 5:25
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• 5:29
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• 5:32
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• 5:34
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• 5:39
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• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to hand it back to you Brian
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: to start the the video.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, I want to read a super chowd before we start,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: because there's one that we missed from yesterday. Was after
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: our show was over, Mowgli gives us five bucks and says,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: the bare minimum is being peaceful. The bare minimum bar
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: is tearing your face off. Okay, thank you for that.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: All right, let's get into the video. We're going to
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: play it. So here we go from the beginning.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: I think the beginning of this problem with hobbies, the
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: reason why I want to talk about it as this
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: topic for a livestream, was that Millennials, our generation in
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: many ways, is ruined by hobbies and by their relationship
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: with leisure activities. Once more, Millennials are a generation that
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: have been failed by most institutions that are we're ordinarily
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: considered organizing its autions for adults.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I mean not that I'm not too worried about the banana,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: but I thought I would pause it there. So he's
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: basically making the case that Millennials and probably Zoomers as well,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: are are failed by their you know, institutions, or the
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: institutions are just not there, so let's listen to some more.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: There are no adult institutions, there are very few fraternal organizations,
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: there are very few charity organizations. The religious vocations that
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: we have established in our society are all shot, and
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: the the professional societies, and even the idea of organizing
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: your life around a profession is increasingly difficult for a
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: lot of people, not the least of which because jombs
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: go obsolete so frequently. Just with this last AI scare
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: that we had two years ago, a huge swath of jobs,
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: we're just on the chopping block. And I don't think
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: I think that was a little bit overblown in hindsight.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: In hindsight, the capacity of AI to just wholesale replace
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: entire professions of people in copyetting, in article writ in
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: sort of the standard front page article writing for newspapers.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: I guess perhaps even in translation that has not been
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: as disruptive as people had once feared, although I mean
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: that still could be on the horizon. But the impression
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: is that, well, you can't very well organize your life
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: around professions because professions have the ultimate danger of being
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: exported or being replaced or obsoleted by technology. You can't
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: organize your life around religion, because you know, we're all
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: too sophisticated to believe that stuff. And furthermore, religion has
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: the problem of making an imposition on the self and
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: an imposition on the will, and from the modern perspective,
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: that is the ultimate that is the ultimate crime against
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: our our our religious understanding of what man should be.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: So for okay, all right, So I think we can
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: stop here because I think this is it's gonna this
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: is a good amount of meat to get into. From
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: going to saying that there's no fraternity or charity organizations,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think they still exist, it's just not
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: so much men involved in them. And uh, you know,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: to saying that you really can't take as much of
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: an identity from profession. I want you to note the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: word identity. That's really critical. That's something that I think
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: we should think about. But and then also we can't
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: take an identity from religion because religion imposes outside expectations
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: and strictures which we are all against because it violates
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: human will. So there's a lot there. And the first
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: thing that I and I hinted at this before we
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: went in and I did the things, you know, telling
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: you how to to support us and all that. Did
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: you notice how he framed this as finding identity Millennials
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: finding an identity. They can't find an identity in fraternity,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: they can't find an identity in work, they can't find
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: it an identity in religion. And I found that really
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: fascinating because when I first looked through this and time
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: coded it, I was I actually first started with the
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: word meaning, and I tried to find it because I
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to find specifically his thesis about how people find meaning,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: and I thought that that was what somehow I heard meaning,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: But he said identity. In fact, meaning as a word
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and a concept of finding meaning doesn't come into play
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: until twelve minutes in then, and when I realized, I
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: was like, well, maybe he used a different word. Maybe
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: it was purpose. So I did a search on purpose,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't appear till thirty three minutes in. This
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: is all initially framed in terms of identity. And what's
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: interesting about that is identity is something that's innate and passive.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Purpose and meaning are. They're aspirational, they're active. You strive
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: for them, You see what I mean. Yeah, it's not
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: something that you just receive or something that you find
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: about yourself passive, almost passively, like you're you're searching. I mean,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I guess that could be active, but it's within you.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: It's it's a quality that is immutable, I suppose. And
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: it occurred to me that that framing, in and of
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: itself is says a lot because apparently, in his framework,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: millennials are looking for an identity, so some label to
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: define themselves with, not a purpose and not a meaning
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: to strive for. And I think that critically actually hits
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: right at the heart of how he in Later in
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the later parts of this, he starts to look at
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the difference between a hobby based around consumption and I
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: think advocation based around finding meaning. And it's like, well,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: right off the bat, you're starting this whole conversation with
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the idea of identity. But identity is passive. It's not
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: something you strive for. It's something that you are. At
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: most you can maybe strive to find it, but once
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: you do, that's what you are. You are a passive
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: thing that's labeled. Whereas and then you look at his
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: how he defines do you want me to get into
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: that or should we have him him say.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: That we can get have him say that four minutes
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: is that up? Yeah, yeah, Let's play some more of
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: the video, let's listen to more of it, and then
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: we'll sure we have like an idea.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: We will regard a young woman joining a mons a convent,
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: I should say, at the age of twenty four, and
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: think that this is she's throwing her life away. What
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: is she doing? Why could how could she possibly making
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: this sacrifice when she could be having the time of
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: her life, when she could be out living it up, clubbing,
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: when she could become one of those corporate late when
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: she could become a girl boss and one of those very
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: very infamous lazy girl jobs, some of which are girls
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: are too lazy even to take the However, for the
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: same person, we would easily you know, obviously this is
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: not for everyone. But in the places where I've lived,
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: people regard that same woman changing her gender, taking up
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: a drug habit, having body modifying surgery of any any type,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: and they would see that and go, oh, well, that's
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: perfectly fine. That's that's her living her best life now,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: even though those changes are horrifically irreversible and don't have.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Once again, it comes back to identity versus purpose and meaning.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: The nun is pursuing a sense of I guess self
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: realization through purpose and meaning and service. The when she
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: discovers she's a transman, that she is once again buying
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: back into labeling yourself based on passive factors an identity. Right,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: So that's I think that's where that that comes in.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: That difference is it makes sense to people that you know,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you sacrifice all of this other stuff for your identity,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: but for some reason, not that you sacrifice I mean
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: even potentially even more transient things like he says, well,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: a nun can leave, you know, she can give up
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: her vows, but they don't want you to sacrifice that
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: for personal realization through action and striving. And it's isn't
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: that interesting? Like it's very much our society is now
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: about putting labels on things and embracing identities versus having
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: aspirations and embracing actions towards those aspirations and goals and
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: a sense of purpose in our life. Very convenient this.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I think that this sort of segues well into being
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: becoming consumers and consumptive that's passively receiving, receiving adulation for
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: our identities.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right. It is a passive experience. And
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: I think that I don't know, like I I think
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that there is something about millennials, people who grew up
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: online or had it very early, and identity it was
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: like a big thing. But it's also kind of feminine.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Is that fair to say? I was honestly going.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: To go there.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I was going to say that, yes, this this focus
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: on identity and finding some innate aspect of yourself to
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: basically revolve your identity around rather than your actions and
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: their effects in the greater world. Are striving for an
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: external purpose. That is feminine. That is like the definition
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: of of the feminine expression is to be, not to become, Yeah,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: exactly it is, and to be to have adulation because
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: of what you are rather than what you do. That's
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: why the princess fantasy is almost it's like it's it's
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: eternal for young girls and women. It's like you get
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: adulation because of your birthright of something you inherently are,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: rather than something that you earn for yourself. So, yeah,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: that is very feminine. The the idea of labeling people
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: very feminine, the idea that all of these identities are
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: simply expressions also very feminine. The idea of taking most
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: of your identity from an external purpose that you serve
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: is much more masculine. Yes, it's quality. Uh And and
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I guess that that also ties into authenticity, like women value,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: authenticity is a virtue of some sort. And and that
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: is that you are the thing that you are, not
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: that you become the thing that you become. In a
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: way like fake it until you make it is the absolute,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: absolute opposite of authenticity, even though if you fake it
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: till you make it, you eventually become the thing that
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: you make of yourself. Right, So yeah, it's a yeah,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: it's a.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I would, I would. I would agree Brian that this
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: is a very feminine framework. And it's interesting that he
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: starts from the feminine framework. He also uses examples for
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the most part at this point that are more feminine
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: in terms of, well, this is a negative, this is
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: how it impacts women, this is how we view women,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: you know, that kind of thing. But that's you know,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: it's par for the course. Most people who don't examine
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: these assumptions don't do this.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Kind of thing. They don't, they don't. Okay, I got
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: a super chat. I want to read real quick before
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I forget. So Albernida retro gave is five dollars Canadian
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: and says, this guy is a tool. Even if you
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: are an atheist, you could find value in what is
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: taught in the New Testament, even if you just see
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: it as parables. I don't think he's I don't think
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: he's attacking religion in here. I think he's saying something
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: that's true, which is like, we are as a society
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: way more secular than we were. And when he says
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: we're all too sophisticated, I think that's a little that's
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: pretty tongue in cheek, Like, you know, we have made
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: the we have made the claim that modern society, post Enlightenment,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: all that is just like smarter and people from ancient
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: times that even superstitions, they were obviously inferior, and so
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: we have no need for this now. Obviously there are
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: still a lot of people who who do live religious life.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: So I feel like this guy might be speaking from
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: a bit of an a bubble, you know, like from
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: the monocultures, as it is so oftenly referred, where it's
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: you're not really experiencing that. Like where I live, there's
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: churches everywhere and there's a lot of stuff. People go
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: to ball games, people have barbecues, people, you know, there's
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of community that happens. There's people did not
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: lock down here, you know, So it's like a whole
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: different atmosphere. When I went to visit my family in Chicago,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: you know, I got the sense that it was just different.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: It was just very cold and not with my family,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: but like the general environment was people found other people
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: to be obstacles, you know, that were in their way.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: But anyway, thank you for the super chat. Regardless, I
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: think it's true. I think that what he's saying is
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: true because and this comes back to what I've been
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: what we've been saying on this channel for a long
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: time is that men don't have their own spaces anymore.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: So how can you how can you expect them to
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: search out purpose or meaning when they can't do it
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: on their own. And we've also, you know, traumatized them
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: for generations by breaking up the family causing problems within it.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: They don't know a lot of them don't know who
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: their father is, they don't understand what it is to
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: be a man, and they're sort of just trying to
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: navigate this and it's interesting that he said it's like
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: he says it's like past the post the Boomers, but
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I would say it's the millennials on because Gen X,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: which is my generation, we're kind of like on the
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: what do you call it, like the transition point. Yeah,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: sorta because I didn't, like, the Internet didn't exist, so
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I was an adult or a young adult, and then
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I got involved. But then even then there was kind
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: of a you know, it was not easy to get
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: into that, and social media didn't come along till I
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: was like close to middle age. So my experience with
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: the world is that I found a lot of value
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: in not just hobbies, because I wonder like video games
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: as a hobby. I know people say that, but I
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: see it as a community building tool like any other game,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: because for some reason, it's been very cool to dunk
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: on video games and anime and like modern nerd interests.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: But it's like before these things existed, we just did
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: different things that had the same effect. Like video games
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: are not something that come out of nowhere, They're downstream
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: from something that we already did, and whether it was
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: playing board games or tabletop games or sports or paintball
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: or something like it, laser tag whatever, Cops and robbers.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: It's just the same thing. It's just like, you know,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: it's just a new packaging. So I think that as
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: a gen xer, I could see that transition, and maybe
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm better able to compartmentalize that. I'm not saying
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: that millennials can't, but I'm just saying, like, if this
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: is the argument, I have to wonder because I think
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I view the hobby or the experience or the exercise
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: of gaming maybe differently than a lot of people who
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: are much younger than me. I don't know. I mean,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I don't pretend to know, but that's my suspicion.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking about that too. I mean again, man,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I don't even remember. I guess, well, TV was a
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: big part, and you can't tell me that TV watching
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: was Could.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: You call that a hobby?
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, just entirely consumptive. All of these,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: all of these like magic, all of these I guess
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: nerdy hobbies and even internet stuff like Cannibalized was TV
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: and TV is the ultimate passive medium. So I'm not
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: like it's like it's I don't see, like when we
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: look at this chart. This just seems to me to
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: be pickiness if it is indeed a true chart and
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: not just something someone made up, which I think it
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: probably is.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I think that this chart, if I if I'm being honest,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I think that this chart was something that when men women,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: because it is women that were voting on this, right,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: It's all comes down to, like which one of these
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: hobbies is the one that takes the least the most
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: attention away from me? And that's all it is. So
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't think this is like a study
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: that you should see as like something we have to address,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: because all it means is, you know, the playing video
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: games is on the top of the list, right, and
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: when you look at the comments, because we looked at
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: them before, it's all women saying, well, well my husband's
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: playing games, he's not paying attention to me and the
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: So that's all. That's all this is really, I mean,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: because like if you if you knew what your boyfriend
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: or a guy you were dating was interested in, and
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: it could be you know, you know, magic the gathering
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: or collecting comic books or I don't know, like listening
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: to like collecting vinyl records of like classic rock bands,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: then like you have to as a person who's interested
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: in him, you would have to, or at least it
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: would be wise to consider that that's something you have
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: to to like be okay with. But what often happens
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: is this is what I think happens. Women get involved
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: with men and they sort of like endure whatever their
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: hobbies are, and then over time they just try to
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: get them to stop engaging in them, and they try
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: to change them. And men are very like, you know,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: like they can be very sensitive to that. And I
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: think it's fair because it's like, you know, and again,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about playing video games as a full
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: time job or some kind of addiction. I think that
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: anything can be addictive, and that is destructive without women's
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: input being necessary. But if you're just doing it like,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: oh I need to unwind, you know, like I just
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: got home from a long day and I'm tired and
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I just want to like, you know, get into a
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: flow state, as Elon Musk said, because he was being
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: interviewed once and he was like, oh, I love playing
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: video games because I use it to relax and get
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: into a flow state. Now, would somebody say that Elon
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Musk is lazy and like a loser. No, he's like, what,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the richest guy in the world, and yet he makes
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: time for this. So it's like, it's not like you
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: can't manage your time and do the things that you
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: know bring you some pleasure. And also, you know, spend
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: time with your kids and spend time with your wife
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: and do your job. It's not like those things can't
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: be done. But I think that women just have this
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: negative view on it, and I think that there is
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: like a social stick and also I think that a
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: lot of people are ashamed to admit that they also
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: enjoy it, so we act like it's this weird hobby.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: But like basically most people play games like at some point.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, that's just my thought on that.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm like diverging.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we're here to give our thoughts. So there
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: you go.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: All right, do you want to watch some more of
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: the video?
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Actually, just let me take a look at my time
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: codes here and what I was put.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: There's like thirty seconds left in this I think said
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: summary up to four.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, no, no, I mean I think I think the
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: summary is pretty much done now. She at this point
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: that he not. She segues into some sort of a
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: conversation about low birth rates and how women have to
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: invest in one man, which is why they don't want
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: to do it and they don't have community support, and
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and it was it was interesting, but it was like, yeah,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: we're going off now into this completely different topic. The
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: only thing that I could say about that is when
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: I was listening to it, I was like, well, but
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: what about alimony child support? You know, women aren't thrown
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to the wolves when most of the times they choose
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: to divorce their husbands. That's why a lot of men
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: have complaints about marriage, because for men, marriage is till
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: death do you part. You're still paying for that individual
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: for a very long time. So divorce doesn't really end
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: their obligations to the woman. But it does end a
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: woman's obligations to them like it does. And then there's
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the argument that oh, he should keep her in the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: lifestyle that she became accustomed to, or that she is
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: entitled to half of the wealth that he created during
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: the relationship and going on, and yet he's not entitled
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: to half the time with the children if she invested
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: more in that. So it's like it's so but the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: way he frames it is that he's looking at women,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: this situation isn't giving them a good deal. And I
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: was like, okay, all right, but I decided I don't
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: think we should go into it, because we could do
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: a whole show on that. All I wanted to say
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: is that it occurred to me listening to him that
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons why conservatives are never going to
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: get rid of the situation for men and the problems
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: with men when it comes to marriage is because that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: would make the situation not as good for women, and
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: they probably would be afraid that they would lose even
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: more women willing to marry. So that's the only concluding
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: thought I had about that. But then we pick up
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: on this particular topic. So the topic of the show.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like three and a half hours. You know,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: he's going to go through many digressions, and okay, so
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: at eleven forty two he basically does a summation of
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: his entire thesis. So we could go there and look
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: at that.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna go there. Now, it's just hard
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: to like find the specific time code because eleven forty two, Okay.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: The idea of finding your identity through religion is close
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: to us. The idea of finding your identity through professionalism
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: is closing and is making lesson lessons these days. And
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: even your ability to find yourself in the context of
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: family and fraternal bonds, either of the literal biological family
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: or the extended family of ideology and faith, even that
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: is relatively limited. I think that in order for the
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: human race to survive, we'll have to fix those broken systems.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: But the reality is.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's not going to happen, Like, I mean,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: all those things are true, Like, but this is exactly
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like, so men, so this is about men. Okay,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I know he's saying millennials. He's talking about men. So
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: men don't have they don't have access to or as
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: much access to their family. A lot of them don't
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: know who their father is. A lot of them are
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: living are coming from like a you know, a damaged family.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: At least they probably don't have a lot of siblings
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: because people are having fewer children, so they don't have
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: that either. They're they you know, they're they're there. When
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: they try to form groups, activists show up and break
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: it up because they can't have men hanging out with
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: each other and talking to each other. So fraternity is
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: just out and I said, we need the men need that,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: right and and now that it's not happening, it sounds
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: like people are starting to say it's men's fault. But
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: like you have to fix that. And then again, you know, yeah,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: if you if you want to, like, where men I
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: think are most likely to discover purpose is through fraternity
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: with other men, in particular older men, especially if they
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: don't have of like they don't have a father, which
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: is becoming more and more common, or not an older
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: brother or something. So yeah, the family is is undervalued.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: The church is undervalued, and a lot of ways the
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: church has its own problems, you know, because it's been
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: infested with wokeness and all this feminist shit and and jobs.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Just like he said, you know, you could focus on career,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: except that the like the the opportunities for smaller businesses
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: are shrinking as corporations get bigger, and corporations are more
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: likely to just hire people from foreign countries and outsource everything,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: so you can't even and even if you do get
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: a job there, you're just gonna be a cog in
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: a much larger machine, and there's not going to be
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: like any other ways to grow in that way either.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: So we've taken all of this away, and he won't.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I don't. I think the truth of it is it
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: comes from kind of a uh well, I would say
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: that corporations are feminine, if that makes sense.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: When when you're starting out and you're starting to break
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: new ground, they may be more masculine. But when you
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: get to the point where you're just maintaining your bulk,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: often your corporate culture becomes more feminine. You you look
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: more at threats, more at being like repeating things more
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: and you know, following through. And it's because of exactly
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: what we found out about from Manifestol and our look
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: into women being more compassionate as well as logical, and
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: finding out that she based it in part on the
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: finding that when men are under stress, they are more
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: risk tolerant and women are less risk tolerant. So corporate
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: culture is going to change as more women get into
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: the workplace and as corporations in their life cycle go
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: from being risk taking, you know, opportunists trying to risk adverse. Right. Yeah,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: so yeah, and there's gonna be less meaning to be
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: found for young men in corporate jobs, you know, and
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and uh yeah, so did you want to finish what
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: you were saying there?
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I guess the one thing I will say. And
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's gonna, you know, bring this up.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know if he brings this up, But like,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: what would be nice? I guess I don't know how
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: else to put it, is that right now? What would
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: be nice? Okay? So what I'm what? I'm okay, So
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: we have this problem, Okay, we have this problem of
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: falling birth rates, population decline. But mostly that's just that's
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: just a symptom of the bigger problem, which is that
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the identity of men and women is being like flattened,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: and they're also being poised to view the other with suspicion,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: and so there's lower trust overall. And what would be
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: nice is something that I think would be difficult to overcome,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: is that men and women should be considering all these
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: things and trying to like work towards improving things, especially women,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: because they're kind of like they're kind of driving this,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: you know, in a lot of ways for the good
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: of its own sake, and so like I think this
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: is like without because like what what we're hearing a
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: lot of now is what's in it for me? Especially
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: from women, right like, how why would I this is
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: what he was saying. He was talking about, how you know,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: when when a woman, like in a modern a modern
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: woman can't you know, just like she's got a choice
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: between taking a risk with a man that might not,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: you know, measure up to her expectations because she's making
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: her own money and you know, men are making less money,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: so it's like this is a risk, or she appeals
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: to the state, and a lot of women are doing that.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: They're going to the state, and that's because men can't compete.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: But what the problem with this is is that he
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: seems to be excusing that level of pragmatism that's coming
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: from women who are like, well, if I'm gonna choose
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: these things, I'm gonna choose the thing that's gonna give
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: me the most benefit without considering how that because then
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: you know, they'll just stay childless, because why not. And
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: they don't want to take the risk of getting involved
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: with a man who might be making less than them,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: or in some way they'll find, you know, that they're inferior,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: and then so they won't want to mate with them,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: and so like that this is a problem that you
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: would have to actually be willing to make a sacrifice
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: to repair, Like a woman would have to say, well,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm just going to make more than him,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: and he can be a stay at home dad, and
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: this is something we've been told you could do, but
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: obviously don't really want that. So you know, this is
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: the thing that they were not facing.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I think I know what you're you're
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: getting it. So this sort of like survey of women
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: of which hobbies they find unattractive and which hobbies give
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: them the ick is simply a way of excusing their
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: risk aversion and choosing the state over men. So it's
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: all like they they're just going to keep grabbing for
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: excuses because the problem is within them. It's their risk aversion.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: They they got they have an easier, safer, supposedly easier
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: safer option appealing to the state having a job. And
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I've heard that said, Like I've heard all these.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Women they take those like those like Google jobs right
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: where they're like going to like yoga.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: You have avo pado, toast and lattes. You know, that's
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: their that's their workday. Yeah, so, but I've heard women
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: specifically say that it's safer to do a job to
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: marry the state because all connection with the other human
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: being involves risk, So it doesn't like if you And
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: this is something that I think home Math sort of
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: gets into too, because he mentions home Math later. Yeah,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: if you keep chasing these excuses that women make for
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: not taking a risk, you are actually affirming them. You
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: are actually giving them credence and making it worse. Because
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the problem is not that men aren't precisely doing exactly
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the hobbies that women want. The problem is that women
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: are having these lists in the first place because they
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: are cowards. Yeah, because they have never grown up and
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: assumed an adult level of responsibility and sense of risk.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Because they are delinquents who substitute human connection with cameras
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: and social media like that. And you can chase the
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: things that they're using as excuses to to avoid making
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: taking these risks as much as you want, but all
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do is confirm their veracity. Like the more
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: if you if a kid is afraid of bananas, and
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, okay, okay, little Timmy, I'll remove all
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: bananas from your life. You'll never see a banana ever.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: I'll make sure there are no bananas in the supermarket
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: when you go, I'll put a bag over your head
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: during the banana festival. Oh even even snakes that looks
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: like oh, even shapes of bananas. I'll get rid of
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: all of it. What are you doing? You're confirming the fear,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Like the more you jump through these retarded hoops that
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: are just like, well, I'm afraid, I'm just a little god,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I'm afraid of life. I don't want to live.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: The more you confirm that, the more you confirm that
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: attitude and women, the more you get of it. The
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: more you confirm little Timmy's fear of bananas, the more
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: fear you get until you can't take him outside because
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: everything he'll like a banana now, Like and yeah, it's
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: like if.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: You incentivize bad behavior, you get more, you get more of.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: It, Yeah, I mean, and yes, in some cases with
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: a phobia, you do have to be careful about helping
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: people through it. It's not quite as simple as that.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: But you can't indulge it. That has got to be
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: an The absolute wrong thing to do is to if
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: somebody has an irrational fear, and women have an irrational
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: fear here, and it's partially created by media, feminism, corporate greed,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: all of this stuff, all of these pressures have constructed
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: this irrational fear, but continuing to indulge it is only
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: going to grow it. So just it's like, yeah, ladies,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: this is bullshit. This is bullshit you've invented to excuse
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the fact that you don't want to start your life.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Let's face it, life starts when you love.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I can tell that this is a fake study too,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: because again, if you look at the list of howbbies
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: are silly, like who in the chat makes online trolling
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: their hobby. I'm sure it's probably everybody.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: But.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: That's like a silly thing to have on the list.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: And also like, do are there women that are like
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I find that unattractive? Like what are you talking about?
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: You know, Like I don't, I don't know. I think
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: it really it's just like you said, you know, women
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: are and they've been conditioned against their own nature, okay,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: against family and against men, which is against their own nature,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: and they're buying into it and so they find men
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: just as Manifestel describes it, She's just honest about it.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: What does she say? She says men are labor and
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: men are risk. And I think a lot of women
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: believe this. They believe at one hundred percent. And it's
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: been it's been normalized, and now, you know, like men
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: having hobbies is a problem. I think it's that's all
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: it is. It's just like men doing anything that isn't
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: in service to women makes women afraid that men will
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: not be good for them.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that they're taking advantage of them because they've constructed
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: this entire narrative that men's purpose on this earth is
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: to exploit women for their own benefit? Have you noticed that?
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: And then then women are absolutely paranoid about any possible
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: moment of exploitation by their partner and it's so destructive,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: you know. And then but but, like I said, this,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: this list is probably just complete bullshit, although I think
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: there's a grain of truth to it. I think.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm that women.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: With men's yeah hobbies, hobbies, yeah.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Or or interests like what women don't. Again, I think
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: this comes back to something that we've been saying here
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: for a while. If men are happy without women, women
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: have a problem with that. Like if men are doing
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: something and it's making them happy and and it's not like,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: you know, you talk about TV, can I can make
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the case for television. So the thing about TV, and
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: I think this is something that people miss about a
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: lot of these hobbies where they are beneficial to a society,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: is that we are all sharing in this experience. So
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: remember when I don't know, when everyone was watching Game
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: of Thrones. I wasn't because I didn't have HBO, but
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: everybody was watching the old Game of Thrones show, the
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: original one, and it came on every Sunday, and everyone
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: knew it was going to be on on Sunday, and
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: so the people who were into that they watched it
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: all at the same time in their respective homes and
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: then they went to work the next day and everybody
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: talked about it, and so this was like a way
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: for people to bond. And I think that there is
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: something about that that is absolutely important that we don't
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: really have today because of the you know, on demand
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: streaming and everything, so you can just watch whenever. I
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: think that there's been this debate going on over on
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: the sort of culture war side of the Internet, which
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: is which do you think is better binge watching shows?
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: So where they you know, Netflix will release the show
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: and they'll have all the episodes out at once, and
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: you could watch all thirteen if you want to sit
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: down and just watch the whole thing, or if it
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: was on a schedule instead, because they used to do
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: it all at once because everybody wanted it all at once,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: and then people were like, oh, you know, they get
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: burned out on that or whatever it is, and so
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: they started some shows would release weekly, and I think
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: the advantage of releasing on a schedule whatever it was
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: was again it was like like The Walking Dead was
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: another one, very very popular show. People would watch it
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: and then they would go amongst other human beings and
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: talk to them about it. It'd be like watching the game.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: You know, men would get together around the couch, have
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: their snacks and pizza and their dorito's and their beers,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: and they'd watch sportsball and they would have that experience
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: together and then later go and meet up with other
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: guys and they would all talk about it. And I think,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: you know, whether you like sports or not, that's irrelevant.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: It's it's about the way that our entertainment, like it
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: adds to community because like I guess you could, you know,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, like, I think that's the
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: thing that people miss.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have thoughts about what he says, because I
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: don't completely disagree with him, especially when he's actually making
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: it more general towards all millennials. I mean, because let's
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: face it, like men's hobbies, magic, the gathering, I don't know,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many men, you know, D and
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: D gaming, you know, war games, watching sports, you know,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: women's hobbies. Turning everything into a threat narrative, destroying people's
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: lives on social media, pretending all women are tends to
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: in order to fuck them out of actually having good lives,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: poisoning other women's relationships and their access to you know, gossiping, voting,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: or have immigration.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: You know, it's weird. Yeah, you know it's weird about
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: about this, now that I think about it. Men's hobbies
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: have all been infiltrated by women who have gone in
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: and said I want to be a part of this thing,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: and then they immediately start changing everything and throwing the
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: men out of it. And now they're saying they don't
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: like that men actually do the thing. That isn't that weird? Like,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: I know it's not you know, you can't say, it's
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: the same women, but it's not like other women are
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: stepping in and saying, well, if you don't like this,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: if you don't like men doing this thing, why are
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: you involved in doing this thing with them? Why are you?
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Like It's like you're coming in and you're like, I
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: want to do this too, And then they go in
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: there and they're like, you know what, can we change
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: everything and get rid of these men? And then they
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: get rid of them. Then the few men that stay
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: and they're like, I don't care what you say, I'm
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: going to keep doing what I do. They're like, you know,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: we don't find that attractive, Like what is going on?
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well okay, And actually it occurred to me like
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: you were talking about how social media is like call
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: of duty for women, except that unfortunately what they do
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: on social media and in the political sphere as a
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: result of social media does have some seriously negative consequences
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: for everybody. But it's interesting because we take aspects of masculinity,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: they're actually if they were expressed physically, would probably we
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want that. So, for example, the competitiveness, the physical
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: aggression of games, you put that into games, the Machiavellian
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: strategy of like even even D and D or Magic
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: like games that involve strategy, you put.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: That into like gas, you mean strategy, like tactical strategy, like.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Tactically even Mackiuvelian strategy, like the idea that you're trying
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: to destroy your opponent. You put it into a game.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Men play it, and you're you're giving outlets for these
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: more dangerous or negative impulses. We don't even recognize those
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: dangerous or negative impulses with women, so we give them
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: the ability to act them out in real life without
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: considering the consequences or or just trying to hide the consequences.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: So the stuff that happens in social media men and
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: I think some women being hounded to killing themselves, you know,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: shaming women for being a slut, shaming men for being
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: a pedo, hounding them into killing themselves. That has happened,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Like I think even was it Branda Woo actually hounded
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: someone into killing herself, you.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Know, And they're no, I don't think that led to
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: a man Alec taking his own life because he was well,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: he was trying. If this is not just like online
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: trolling or like poking holes, I mean, she accused him
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: of sexual assault and nobody and there was no evidence,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: and nobody sided with him. Even his own sister threw
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: him under the bus and said, I believe survivors. And
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, you know, a false allegation is I
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: think it's traumatizing. I never experienced it, but I couldn't imagine.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: And then like to feel like nobody believes you people
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: that you consider your friends, like that's in your own blood.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: That's insane. But it happened. Yeah, Zoe Quinn did that.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But this is what I'm talking about. These are
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: very negative expressions of women's desires to ostracize, identify threats,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: to construct threat and narratives, and ostracize. I mean, if
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: you look at what's happening in politics, I effectively it
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: appears to me as an outsider that the Democratic Party
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: has split in two, that Republicans don't even really have
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: a toe hold anymore. And the two hearts that the
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Democratic Party has split into is the principal part represented
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: by and like what I've been Mike Jay Termed a
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: New York Democrat, Trump who has you know, is he
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: has an interest in making sure small businesses are able
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: to do their do their thing. He's as an interest
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: in protecting the US's financial interest and all that kind
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: of stuff. So principles related to that, and then you
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: have the fantasticized threat narrative half and it's like it's
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: like even those democratic principles, you know, they are too
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: much for the party and I call it the Party
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: of Single Women that because they are have turned everything
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: into a threat narrative, and they use the threat narrative
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: as a means to think about the things in the
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: world that they replaced thinking with the threat narrative. Have
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: you noticed that every thing is threat narrative?
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: There's also I think there's also an inversion of that,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: essentially the idea that women couldn't possibly be a danger
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: to anyone. There's like an inversion of it as well,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: because when you have women that can make allegations and
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: lead to suicide and nobody no, like if people just
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: like think that this is okay or that, or women
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: like attacking other women online, trying to destroy their confidence,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: trying to destroy their reputation, like and the fact that
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: no one thinks this is a problem, you know, and
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: when we talk about online harassment, we never talk about
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: women at least not in the mainstream cathedral. They only
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: talk about it coming from men. So if there's if
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: you've ever considered the the opposite or the inversion of
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: a threat narrative, the women are like, you know, completely harmless,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: regardless of how much damage they do. Yeah, that's something
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: that My overall point.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Is that these are just dark impulses. And whereas we
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: give men a place to turn their dark impulses into
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: something social and fun and they expressed passion and creativity
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: and maybe get a sense of meaning, we just sort
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: of let women slept their id all over the social
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: and political landscape with no very little calling them out
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: or holding them to account for it. And like you said,
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: social media is call of duty, but social media for
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: what it is is like call of duty with real bullets. Yep,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: you know, So go ahead.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I got a couple of super childs I should read. Yeah,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Richard Pere sent them, so okay, so he gives us
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: five bucks and says into our hobbies that aren't athletic
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: in nature were stigmatized because those who were involved in
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: them weren't garnering recognition for their high school by bringing
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: the school the trophy for the regional championship in any sport,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: if you weren't contributing to that, and then you are
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: or were socially useless. Well, I don't know about that,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: because I when I was in high school, I don't know.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe that just doesn't exist anymore. But when I was
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: in high school, I was in My major was architectural drafting,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: and I won a trophy for a building that I
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: drew for. It wasn't an art class, so it wasn't fun,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: but but I did win in a But again, I
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: think that girls probably don't find that attractive. But I mean,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: so what I think that if I see what you're saying, Okay,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: indoor hobbies aren't athletic and nature were stigmatized. Yeah, I mean,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: I guess so. But if you build a ship in
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: a bottle, or if you put together a jigsaw puzzle,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: or I mean, do you do we need people to
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: like what we do? I don't.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Richard Biere then gives us five bucks and says, there
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: is this song called Labor by Paris Polo that is
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: practically an anthem, if not another biblical revelation for feminists.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: All right, So that's the super Child's I just wanted
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: to get those Let's get to the.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Next I just like all I wanted to say is
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: that a lot of male hobbies are about expressing what
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: might be considered dark impulses in another circumstance. But it's
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: it's it's giving an outlet for them, and I think
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: that's a good thing, because human beings do have dark impulses,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: and maybe women should have. I don't know, we could
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: call it the mean girl's game, you know, we could have.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Like competition well instead of actually doing it to real life.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Women, Yeah, exactly, or realize.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I think it is. It could also
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: be the product of living in a time of relative
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: peace where men like still crave a call to adventure,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: a call to action of some kind and some cause,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: and so like you know, these hobbies gaming and stuff,
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: it like gives them that that thing, that great victory
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: that they want, you know. I mean there's certainly could
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: do that in business and stuff like that too, But
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: I think that that is you know, if you're just
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: like a young guy and you're you know, I think
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: that's what draws us to it. And I think shaming
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: it is sort of like I think it is kind
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: of what do you call it? It's like it's like
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: trying to restrict that that desire, and I don't and
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: I think that there's a risk averse thing associated with
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: that too, like guys that you know, that's why they
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: call doom like a you know what do they call
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: it a murder simulator? I think that's a feminine urge
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: to call things that men like you know, to indulge in,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: like video games that are violent for example, or at
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: least have violence in them. And they're like, well, what
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: does this say about you? Right? So it's I don't know,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: I think that that might be another risk averse thing
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: coming out.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Well what it says about you? It's like, okay, so
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: my dog is a what East German shepherd, right, and
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: he has a lot I don't know if it's exactly
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: prey drive. I guess pray drive is the way of
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: putting it, because the shepherd's shepherd. They chase and they
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: and they heard and that kind of thing, and he
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: has the urge to do that, not necessarily to like
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: kill and attack things, but just put them in their
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: place like a proper German. And he transfers that desire
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: like he'll pick up a toy and he'll shake it,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and he'll do it when he's in a situation where
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: he's feeling a predatorial urge and he knows that if
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: he indulges it, people will be not happy with him,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: so he will transfer it to a toy and he'll
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: put it into the toy because you know, he doesn't
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: want people to be unhappy with him, because he's also
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: very bidable. He likes making people happy with them. So
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: the whole idea that you're transferring these kind of dark
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: impulse impulses into to this creative outlet, it's sort of
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: like that, and it's not. It's not. It doesn't speak
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: badly of men, as far as I can tell. He
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: doesn't speak badly of my dog. That he knows that
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: if he does certain things that people will be upset
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: at him, and he's like, no, I prefer to channel
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: this into this toy instead. You know, it actually speaks
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: of being self aware and being disciplined that men put
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: these dark impulses into fun things that they can enjoy
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: with others. And what does it say about women that
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: they put these dark impulses into forcing or compelling people
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: to commit suicide?
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: You know, like yeah, or at least drive them off
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: the internet.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, just you know, maybe it would be better,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: like and then turn around and judge what men do,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: which is absolutely ridiculous, like, oh my god, instead of
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: tearing apart this small animal, you're shaking a toy. Huh huh? Well, boy,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: are you a foolish human being who likes murder simulators?
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I just like murder, yeah, or inducing suicide so I
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: don't get blamed for it. Oh man, Okay, let's uh.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Seventeen o two where he discusses how he discusses how
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: men who are into these kinds of hobbies get defensive
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: about them.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, I was a little bit early sixteen
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: fifty five, but.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is it yeah, sure, okay?
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: Taking this stuff seriously or why you don't have the
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: subtlety to appreciate this art. That's a lot of times
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: what I get from defenses of things like the the
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: nerd culture hobbies that are popular with many people in
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: my generation. And I was thinking about this for for
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: a long time, and there seems to be an attitude problem.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: Uh So there's one tweet that came up that I
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: have on screen here that kind of solidified this a
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: little bit. It was repeated again by an online friend,
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: Juniper Tree and my wife who blogs under the name
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: Tilting Turtle, as well as home Math, which I mentioned earlier,
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: or that could be in the part of the stream
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: that I cut off anyway, the the the the tweet
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: from old Hollow Trees says only productive activities can be hobbies.
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: Collecting and being entertained are not hobbies, they are consumption. Uh,
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: which which, all.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Right, do you realize the statistics on TV watching Prior
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: to the Internet, people watched eight hours a day.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're criticizing that. I think there's.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Criticized, but this is definitely not a millennial problem. In fact,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: almost everything on the Internet involves more actual something than
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: TV watching. No offense, but TV watching is the most
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: passive form of entertainment that there has ever been. Even
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: even listening to a radio drama requires actually imagining something.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: TV gives you everything. And and the reason why I
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: bring it up, and I honestly I don't have a
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: problem with people who like watching TV shows, although most
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: of the stuff on I mean, we've watched.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: M Lindsay and I watched The Seinfeld the other day.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I mean there's no problem. Like and
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: especially people who watch it you know, actively, and they
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: and they do it it's like a social thing or
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: they're they're may they're they're having fun with it, or
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: they're analyzing the storytelling, or they you know, and even
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: just enjoying it, but not just enjoying anything that's on,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Being but that that was
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: previous generations. That was the Boomers, that was us, the
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: Generation Z. Now you're you're saying that the millennials, Generation X,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: you know, the millennials and the Generation Z have a problem. No,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: I think we've had a problem with passive consumption for
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: far longer because in the generations prior to like mass media,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: specifically television. Yeah, you'd have to listen to radio and
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: you'd have to think about things, but radio also helps
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: you with writing and all kinds of other stuff. And
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: prior to that, people's time would be taken up with
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: hobbies like woodworking, knitting, you know, stuff that was productive.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Then the TV came and annihilated all that. So this
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: is this is not the millennials, Like, don't put this
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: on the millennials. This is this is well before then I.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Think he's trying to, like, I think he's trying to
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: diagnose a problem with millennials because of you know, millennials
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: are at the age now where they should be forming
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: families and they're not. And I think that there's there's
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: a lot of blame being flung around at what might
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: be the problem. And it sort of like seems to
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: have landed you mean, no millennials and generation Z Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: What what has I think landed in the lap of
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: of the millennials is why haven't the men attracted the women?
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the problem, right, So, like we're
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: not looking at you know, and and they're like, well,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: women are getting more educated, Like he says that in
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: his video, right, women are more educated than than men.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, that doesn't mean they're smarter. I mean,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: I'm just because like this is the the reason why
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: I'm saying that is this is the implication when somebody
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: says so and so has a really good education. What
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: they think they're saying is so and so is smart.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: But that's not really true. They are indoctrinated because education
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: is garbage and it's basically just programming. And and I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: think that that is also a problem. So you could
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: just be like, oh, yeah, you know, there's this statistic, right,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: black women are the most educated demographic in the United States,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: and it's like, oh, no, wonder there's barely any black
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: families then, because like you can like, there's a problem here.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: There's these women are being taught stuff that they can't use,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: and they're being put six figures in debt and they
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: hate men. Where do they get it? Like who raised them?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: The schools? So like I digress, but it is it
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: is annoying because what I think is happening is there
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: is a problem, and it's got to be the men
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: that are the problem. And that's why we're at this
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: point where we're debating whether or not what men do
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: in their free time should be allowed and what it means.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: And even home math gets this wrong in my opinion.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: But but yeah, you're right, we're debating this. We're not
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: debating it about women. What women do in their free time.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, they're on.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Their freaking phones all day, taking selfies and taking pictures
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: of their food, but nobody seems to have an issue
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: with that.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and also cultivating this idea that their ultimate other
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: half is a camera and social media attention, you know,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: like that that they are in this courtship, this preternatural
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: courtship with the camera. We can't criticize that.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately, is that more or less productive than
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: men for video games?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah? This is that? Yeah, exactly is that more or
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: less productive? And it's easier because and I was, I'm
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: trying to find this video that it was. The title
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: was just give me a second here, the title was.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: I sent it through to you, and.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: It was, so, oh is it the No?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, it was, uh, well, actually I can't say, no, no,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: do you recognize this how to stop worshiping the mail
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: gaze and master adoring yourself? And I'm like, that's exactly
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: what's happening. The camera allows women to forego a relationship
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: with men to get that adoration that they create. So
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: they're in this kind of peter natural courtship. Now, I
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: don't expect institutions to really be talking about this, or
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: larger youtubes to be talking about this, because I just
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: made the connection like a couple of weeks ago, right,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: I just framed it in that way and then remembered
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: that I had talked about it in the early two
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: thousands that the ultimate counterpart for the modern woman is
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: the camera. And the camera doesn't ask anything of you, really,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, it does ask that you be somewhat attractive,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: but or not even that. It's just use filters and
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: just yea filters and just yeah. But this is the point, Like,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: do we criticis size that? Do we criticize that as
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: a hobby? Like we criticize pornography men supposedly getting porn sick,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: But do we criticize women in this kind of weird,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: screwed up superstimulus courtship with cameras, Like they can get
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: all of this the social media, They can give them
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: way more attention than one single man. So why would
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: they ever devote themselves to one single man?
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Why would they close that off? We don't talk about it.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: We don't talk about the social pressures that all of
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: this stuff, all of these attractions that are constructed by
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: social media put on women, because of course, that would
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: require condemning and judging, and we can't do that. We
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: can't blame, condemn or judge women. So let's just continue
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: to wonder why men are doing hobbies and defining themselves
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: by hobbies. I don't think that men are as much
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: taking identities from hobbies, but maybe they are. Let's okay,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: let's finish this on all right, let's.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Listen to more of this. Yeah, okay, hold on.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: Distinction here between having leisure activities that are that are
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: good versus having leisure activities that are bad. Is there
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: a distinction to be made?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: This is this is this is it, this is what.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: This is why I brought up TV watching. People were
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: forming families when they were watching eight hours of TV
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: a night.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: Baby, Well, the whole family would sit around the television, yes,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: watch and they.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Just they just passively consumed. They were forming families when
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: they were doing that. Like, if you're gonna blame hobbies,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: and maybe that's why he brought in that whole what
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: I thought was a segue into the fact that people
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: aren't forming families, maybe you picked up that it was
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: actually part of the reason why he did this. So
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: there is no reason like that that that that control
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: people engaging in passive leisure activities has been happening since
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: TV and they form families then, Like, are.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: Is it even really all that passive to watch a
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: film or talking up show or a TV show, like
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: with a family, and you're all sitting like It's not
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: like you're just sitting there quietly like drones. I mean,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: people are reacting to what's happening, and they're probably talking
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: to each other about it. It's like if we put
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: on like a what about if you're listening to music.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: What if you put on the radio or a record
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: and you have that playing while you're all like, you know,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: eating dinner or maybe not, you're just sitting there in
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: the living room listening to music, you know, and you
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: start dancing Like I don't like, how is this? I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: just don't get the consumption argument for the stuff that
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: he's bringing up. I mean, I think that collecting, like
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: collecting like funk copops is probably like a meta passive
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: consumption thing, because you know, funkal pops are these things
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: you get that are little figurines that represent characters from
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: pop culture, and so when you buy a bunch of them,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: you're sort of showing people like, this is all the
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: pop culture I know, which is a little it's like
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: degrees removed from the source and it's not telling a
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: story and it just costs you money. But again, even then,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't shame people for buying those.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: I understand the distinction he's making. I'm just concerned that
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: once again, and I think you're picking this up and
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: you're correct that this is being directed just at men,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: because at the very least you can say this about
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: men's hobbies, they're taking in some cases dark impulses, and
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: they're making them social and productive and creative. Women's hobbies are,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: like you said, social media.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: What about buying pre trash?
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like that, and social media is like call
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: of duty for women, except using real bullets. So I mean,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: can we have a discussion about that, because men's hobbies
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: may make make me give women the ick or maybe
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: just a time consumptive or money consumptive, but ultimately they
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: usually don't end in someone's suicide.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: No, I think anything can be done to excess Yes,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: but like this, this doesn't It's not limited to hobbies,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: and the issue is not the hobby either. But anyway,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: let's do more.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: Thing or or attitudes to them. And this is uh,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: my wife, I just delete if I remove my video
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: clip right here as well, where my wife asks its
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: match at the gathering considered a hobby or consumption and
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: this is it's always I've always found this so funny
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: about my relationship with the Okay.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: Stop it here, stop it here. Okay, could you go
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: back a bit so we can actually see home maths tweet.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hold on, just just.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: Just once one second, like just where where he actually.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: Removes the sumption?
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: Okay wait wait wait wait yeah, just get so essentially
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: the distinction.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to find it where he does this? Is
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: it this far back? What? Oh wait wait wait wait
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: I know it's just YouTube.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: It is weird, dude, Yeah, no, it's it's it's much
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: closer to where we are.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, hold on, components.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: Oh you went too far. We're gone too far now, Okay,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: I don't want to. I wanted to.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: Actually there is yay, we won was he actually reads
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: it later? But go on, Okay, so this.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Is old hollow tree. I know he reads it later,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: but I'm not going to wait for that. I mean,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: this is a three and a half hour freaking stream.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: Only excuse me, I'm.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: I read it. Only productive activities can be hobbies. Collecting
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: and being entertained are not hobbies. They are consumption, Juniper.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: She skipped that, but yeah, go ahead, and read the juniper.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: If there's a social point to hobbies that makes same
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: sex it is to make same sex friends. Most are
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: neutral to negatively attractive, because why would your girl boyfriend
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: girlfriend give a shit unless you make it a problem?
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think yeah. And also apparently the purpose
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: to hobby.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: I don't think it needs to be a point to
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: hobbies except that you just take pleasure in it. But
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: I think that making friends through it is a side
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: effect that's welcome.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not migrating off the screen, am I?
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: No, you're okay, Okay, I'm.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, good, okay. And then the next one
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: is we'll skip the tilting turtle, which is his wife,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: because I want to go back to his little anecdote
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: with his wife later. And in home Math says, I
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: am trying to turn a generation of adult children into men,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: but I'm not allowed to criticize video games or anime,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: pray for me and or sense substances. Wow, jeez, Home Math,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: that's really arrogant. But unless it's just making a.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: Joke, well, I think this is the Okay, Can I
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: say what the problem with home Math is here? Yep?
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: He is essentially saying that he has to criticize this thing,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: and sure, it's the Internet. Some people get really defensive
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: about their interests, and he doesn't. He thinks it must
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: happen because he has to turn a generation of adult
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: children into men. So this is the this is only
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: going to He's not gonna win at this because men
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: aren't really the problem. I'm sorry to say it. Men
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: like like disappearing into their hobbies is the reaction to
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: the problem. It's men's reaction them checking out, them doing
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: what they want. It's their reaction. Like men have realized that,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: you know what, I can work a minimum wage job
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: and i can live in a studio apartment and I'll
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: have everything I want and you know, I'll be happy
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: and this is gonna work. And I get that in
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: the long run that may not be like optimal. But
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: it's not their fault. They're just doing what they have
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: to do with their well, I mean.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: And home math isn't isn't isn't innocent of you know,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: acting like a victim because he's acting like a victim here. Men,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: But I'm not allowed. Who's not allowing you to criticize
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: things like I was not? I was apparently not allowed
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: to stand up at an expo and say, I think
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: we should stop emphasizing women's victimhood because it leaves vulnerable
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: men out in the cold. I was apparently not allowed
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: to say it. I still said it, Like, who's not
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: allowing you? YouTube sensors? Like who there are people who
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: will give you pushback? Well, yeah, people are not going
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: to agree with every opinion you have, dude, Like, I
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: just if that attitude just really bugs me. But the
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: other thing is that what's happening is that women are
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: in a super stimulus. Okay, so you have a group
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: of fish that are attracted to a certain pattern, and
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: then biologists replicate that pattern but exaggerated even more, right,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: and then all the fish start to try to mate
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: with these fake patterns that are presented as the opposite
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: sex fish. So they're all over there trying to mate
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: with that, right, Because it's a super stimulus. It's something
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: that it's like, it's intoxicating, it activates all of their neurons.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: It's so much better than the real thing. Women are
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: in a courtship with cameras and social media. That's what
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: they are doing. Men are in a situation where people
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: on Twitter will have more control over how they're female
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: partner views their relationship than they do. So this whole
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: thing has become the ability has given women the ability
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: to have much more direct involvement into the relationship of
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: other women, to have much more control over what they think,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: to express their competition with other women by dripping poison
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: into their ears. An example of that was the Shira
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: who has like, got a message for some woman who's like,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I have a boyfriend who's about to graduate
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: from engineering college. Hey, maybe even has a job lined
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: up after that. Should I wait the three months? And
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: Sira's I'm exaggerating for comedic effect. And Sheira's like, oh no, girlfriend,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't you do you though? And I'm like, that girl,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: if she looks at the world in terms of having
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: a good provider, is about to be completely set up,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: right according to that metric of being set up? And
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: what is Shira? She's dripping poison. She's actually destroying that
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: girl's connection to her resources, which is what women do.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: Social media gives women a playground to do this, and
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: all of this is leading to men hiding or finding
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: identities in things other than women and informing relationships and families,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: all right, because women are in a super stimulus relationship
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: with cameras and social media, and what do you do.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: We have absolutely no framework to get women out of that.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: We have no system that gets women out of that.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: You know, like you could look at the Christian system.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: Why did it come about? Possibly because there was a
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: lot of retributive violence that was causing instability to cultures.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: So what do you do. You have a narrative. And
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just looking at it from an anthropological
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: or historical perspective. I don't mean to be rude in
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: any kind of religious perspective, but you have a narrative
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: that's about women letting go of these grudges that are
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: destabilizing society. But prior to that, you have the sabine women.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: Same thing. You have a narrative, an external system that
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: women live up to that eases or helps them overcome
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: whatever dark impulses are causing this destabilization. We don't have that.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: We got a completely new set of technological problems and
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: no way of saying to women, hey, you gotta stop.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: You can't hump a camera for the rest of eternity,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: Like you can't constantly be destroying your girlfriend's relationships with
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: the rest of eternity, right, you can't just divide men.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: And here's the other thing, Like this actually blew my
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: mind when it happened. I was walking down a street
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: and I live in a small town, Like it's like
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: twelve hundred people. You know how small it is, Brian,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: You've been there.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: And from the old Western it's like two acrossed, that's it.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: So I'm walking down one of the streets, actually it
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: was one of those the crossing streets, and I'm just
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: walking past someone's backyard and I'm listening to two women
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: talking about dating, and they obviously are on a camera
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: like I are. Are have a smartphone, and they're they're
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: talking about swiping and all that, and one girl's like,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: it's just like removing the weak from the herd. And
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how are you supposed to get men into
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: a situation? How can you blame men for this?
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: What is she doing? She's swiping?
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: What is it? Right?
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: Or left? Being left on? Every guy that's under like
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: six foot, which is what twenty percent of the population
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: is six foot or over, you know, like thirty I
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: don't think it's very much, right, okay, yeah, how are
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: you going to mature men out of being five foot eight?
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, okay, So, I mean and so, And the
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: other thing is that I've I've watched a few home
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: ath stuff. I think he gets men sort of like
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: I said in the beginning, sort of chasing women's neuroticism
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: and just confirming these hoops. But I could be wrong
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: because I haven't watched enough of it. However, I do
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: think that overall there is some validity to what's being
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: said here. So I'd like to move to the next
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: time code if that's okay.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I got another super child that I want
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: to read, though. It gives us ten dollars and says
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: how bad of a red flag is? If she asks,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: do you play games? Run for the hills already or
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: wait to see if there's more y? That is that
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: a play games? I mean, Lindsey plays games. You know.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: We we we actually, you know, for a while we
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: were living apart because she's Canadian and I was in Chicago,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: and around twenty sixteen until she came here, we played
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: Overwatch like every night because it was the only way
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: we could like do something while we spent time together.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: So we play Overwatch and we have fun. I have
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: fond memories of that, and then we got into this Friday,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: the thirteenth game that we also enjoyed a lot. So
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think you I think you can again.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: For me, gaming is maybe different from the way other
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: people experience. I see it as a social activity. That's
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: how I like to do it. And when I don't,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't get as much out of it.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: Oh but yeah, like some there are there are female
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: gamers out there that are like real, yeah, just not
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: that common.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: So essentially, I don't know how much more time you have,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: but essentially from about twenty he begins to discuss Ready
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: Player Run one and he points out that that game
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: is about a player defending a virtual reality, not the
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: real world. So it feels like sort of like a
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: an anthem for millennials defending like non existent pop stuff
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: or not non existent, but like virtual, yeah, virtual. And
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: then he goes on and he describes a story about
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: this individual called Devin Stacks. I think it's it might
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: be a film and essentially or no, actually it's a YouTuber.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: I believe he had to clear out a man's apartment
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: after he had died, and the man's apartment was full
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: of pornography and collectibles and consumption stuff, and and he
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: felt like that, you know, this is a life, this
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: is the sum total of his life. And then then
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: this guy describes another story, which is it was about
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: I forget the name of the author, but it was
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: about this this man who lived below somebody above him.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: And the guy was playing the fiddle but doing it
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: very badly. He was an older man trying to play
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: the fiddle, and he's he's constantly annoying his downstairs neighbor
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: with the problems that he has with his his playing,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: and he's sour notes whatever, you know, he just doesn't
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: get it technically. And then the man who's the fiddle
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: player dies and the downstairs neighbor has to clean out
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: and he finds out that the guy had lost his family,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: he was a widower. He had nothing left in the
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: end of the day except being able to play the fiddle,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: even though he's playing it, playing it in a mediocre way.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: And then suddenly, you know, the guy who's who's cleaning
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: it out, he's like this The fiddle pilling became beautiful
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: because it was about the last moments of this man's
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: life and trying to achieve something beautiful, like trying to
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: create beauty in your last moments, and you know, it's
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: a very affecting story. And then and all of that
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: is trying to explain his thesis about how hobbies that
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: are purely consumptive are not necessary, are not as valuable
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: as cobbies that create something, or even even if it's
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: a mediocre something, still trying to strive for beauty. And
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: I think there is some merit to what he's saying here. Again,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not so sure it's you should target it just
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: at men, because I think that women's hobbies are can
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: be very destructive and destructive people, destructive to the environment.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean all things in moderation. That's the
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: only thing I could land on with that.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: I think you could online bullying in moderation.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: I guess, well maybe not that, maybe don't or direct
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: it at people who deserve it, but a little bit.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, like I'm talking about ways that
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: we entertain ourselves. I guess engaging in manipulation of other
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: people is something that people can use to entertain themselves.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: But that's pretty that's pretty dark.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, so I think what I'd like to go
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: to is twenty nine seventeen.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: All right, twenty nine seventeen. Oh the wait, oh God,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: where is it? I'm just gonna play it from here. Okay,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: that's I'm not going to complain.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: I can't consumer products be vocations. A hobby could be
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: a consumption. A hobby could be a vocation.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: Consumer products are done for the glorific and the feelings
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: it generates in the individual. A vocation is done for
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: the glorification of the truth, the good, and the beautiful,
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: or to use another word for the truth, the good,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: and the beautiful, a vocation is done for the glorification
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: of God.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: Now, so I actually want to go back a bit
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: twenty four fifty four because that's where he really gets
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: into the meat of his thesis.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, but but everything is kind of a meme. Everything
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: that the millennials are really passionate about in their leisure
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 3: activities is designed to be kind of disposable so that
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: it does not expose the self to criticism. Let's see
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: where I can go with this on the on the
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: Slide show. So here I have the question, is it
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 3: a hobby or is it a vocation. Is it a
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 3: hobby or consumption. Well, this is a hard question. I
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: don't think that many vocations have started as hobbies. Many
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: vocations have started as hobbies. If you look at the
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: initial scientific revolution that we idolized in all of our
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: well our I shouldn't use the collective here. If you
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: look at the initial scientific revolution, which I idolized in my
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: days as a cringe new atheist, before cringe new atheism
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: was popular, like a hipster. I was doing it before
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 3: it was cool. Half of those guys who invented things
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: like Bayes' theorem and all this other stuff were essentially
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: gentleman hobbyists. There were a lot of pastors and priests,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 3: like you know Mendel who was the father of genetics,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: with pea plants of all things. And these people were
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: essentially they had a job as a school teacher, or
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: as a country priest, or as a monk, or as
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: or maybe even just an aristocrat if you wanted to
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: go to the Francis Bacon example, and in their spare
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: time they wrote or did scientific experiments, or did mathematics,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: and in that spare time, in that hobby, they created
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: all of what we know was modern science with a
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: few exceptions. Modern science was not created by scientists. It
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 3: was not created by a professional class. It was created
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 3: by hobbyists. It was created by people who were doing
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: things as doing the thing as a passion for itself.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: So I mean this initial.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: All right, So here's the problem. Where do you divide
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: the line? I mean, I guess you could say that
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: consumption is definitely not productive, Like you're not advancing human
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: knowledge by consuming funkal pops and television. If you're if
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: you're just consuming television, you're not doing it in a
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: social sense, or doing it to analyze it or that
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Now, I want to take out the
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: idea that you should can dem consumptive hobbies because again,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: like we're talking about he even goes later on and
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: talks about war games and how wargames he doesn't want
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: to dismiss war games because so many veterans get involved
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: in wargames. Well, I would imagine part of that is
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: expressing And he even goes through this and says suggest
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: that this is that it's expressing things that are a
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: part of war or even the dark impulses in a
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: pro social and creative way. So a lot of consumptive
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: hobbies can simply be an expression or creating a pro
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: social way to indulge in more maybe darker things, or
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: even just be creative, you know, and that itself, I think,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to get away, get rid of,
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: you know, German shepherds being able to play the games
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: that let them, you know, express those kind of predatory instincts.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: And I think that in of itself, like being able
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: to express those passions that are darker or things that
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: you can't in real life, is in and itself a
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: good is what I'm getting at. Do you get what
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: I'm saying?
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I'd like to say a couple of things
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: about this too, sure, So okay, yeah, No, I think
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: that having some consumption is fine provided that again, you
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: are you know, making something of yourself outside of that.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: And this is not because you know, you need to
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: serve society or serve women, but like for yourself, like
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: you should be, you know, feeling like you're doing something
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: good for itself. But being a consumer of things like movies, music,
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: or television. I don't think that's a problem personally, again,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: unless it gets excessive, in which case it starts creeping
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: into your real life stuff. And then you are the
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: one that's gonna have a problem. I'm not you know,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: gonna uh say, oh you're not you know, serving women
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: or whatever. But what he's trying to get at is
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: that he's basically trying he's creating, like I said before,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: he's making a hierarchy of hobbies, Like some hobbies are
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: superior to others because the ones that are superior have
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: like you know, uh, they they produce something that all
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: of society can use, like these people who are you know,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: experimenting in their spare time or or involved in mathematics
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: or whatever. And then he gives a bunch of examples.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: But the problem is is that those are those are
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: individual cases coming out of what hundreds of years of
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: like you know, of of humans existing. So it's like,
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: do you want like all men to just like do
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: the the hobbies that are the most elite, you know,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: like like on some theory and stuff like that, or
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: is it because like do you know what I'm saying, Like,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: if we go back to like the times of some
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: of the people that he mentioned that were like doing
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: great things with their spare time, there was probably an
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: enormous majority of people that weren't, but they were doing
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: They were engaged in hobbies, they were playing games, they
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: were you know, singing or learning or playing an instrument
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: or or whatever whatever you did with just skipping rocks.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, like in the Middle Ages
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: or whatever, or the time of the scientific Revolution, there
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: was like that. Because he's bringing that up, and it's like, well, yeah,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: but most people weren't doing anything during the time cific revolution.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: They were just kind of like hanging out like we
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: are now, So like, what do you talk In fact,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: it was probably in some ways it might have been
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: worse because maybe if you have nothing to do, you're
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: just oh, I guess I'll just drink because that's something
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: to do, right, Or I'll just eat something or whatever.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: So like, I don't know, I think that it's it's
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: strange because he's saying, here are these extreme or exceptional
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: examples of people that did exceptional things and an exceptional
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: point in history. Why aren't you guys being exceptional? And
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, no, most of us aren't going to
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: be like a few people will, right, but like most
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: of us are not gonna be doing great things that
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: come from hobbies and how do you define it exactly?
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: How do you define what is a hobby that? I mean,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: because a lot of this stuff, a lot of alchemy
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: and all that that never really came to anything. Right,
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of guys just in their basement
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: playing with chemicals and probably having lives saying, oh my god,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: you know, I bet in two.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: In three they were would you please BC?
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: Well this ecceptered BC. Oh my god, look at all
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: of those guys sitting on rocks thinking like, oh, look
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: at that. What a waste of time. What a bunch
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: of in cells?
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: You know, Like.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: There's some guy with like a whole bunch of stone,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: you know, shapes that are almost circles, but they're kind
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: of square, and he's like, I got I'm onto something.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: He's about to invent the wheel. The woman's like, would
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: you stop it and go get us some you know mammoth.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing, Like what we don't know what
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: really is going to result in some kind of flowering
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: of revolution in thought. And at the time, I'm guessing
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: those men and I know they were a lot of
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: them went to coffee houses and there was a whole
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: petition against that. Don't let men go to coffee houses.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: They're failing in their duties as a husband, you know,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: And like I said, six hundred bcy, I know I'm
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: getting the date wrong. You know, you have Homer sitting
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: down with like a stylust and a bit of pyrus,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: like writing something out, and his wife is like, oh
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: my god, why are you wasting your time with that
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: little hobby? You know, like, you don't know, let men play.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: You don't know what's going to come out of it,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: you know, exactly right, I will say, I still think
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: he does have a point. I think he's missing it
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: somewhat though. I think that consumptive hobbies sometimes, you know,
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: you can only do so much directed learning or directed
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: thinking in a day. I think you got about three
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: hours of it. The rest of it, you kind of
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: sort of need other people to do stuff for you.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: You know. That's probably why the stone Knapper and the
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: old tribes, the old hunter gathered tribes just sit back
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: at the fire and let the mime do some entertaining
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: for a bit, because he's spent his mental energy trying
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: to figure out the next I don't know Clovis point.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just it not you can't be on
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: every hour of the day, right, sometimes some time.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like, exactly, you got to decompress, and it's
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: fine to do that, but like when you say, well, yeah, exactly,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: So like, I don't know, I think that the issue
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: also seems to me maybe the distributors is sort of talking.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: He's kind of like talking a little bit about himself.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: He's kind of out of himself a little bit.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I think about that. Yeah, yeah, and
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: in a very interesting way as well, that I'll get
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: to if we get.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: To it, Okay. And the other thing is is that
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: maybe I don't know if he says it in this video,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: but I think that ultimately what's happening with this whole
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: conversation is that he is talking about a symptom, not
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: the problem. Like these great minds, you know, uh, mostly
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: came from men who were celibate, or they were monks,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: or they were you know, chased, Like they weren't raising families,
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: so instead they were building something hence the glorification of
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: God thing, right, Like you know, these great minds they were. Yeah,
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: but but but if there are great minds like that
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: are celebrate doing these things, then there's no families. And
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: there's no people, so you need you need people that
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: are making people. And then maybe some of those people
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: who are extra brilliant, extra you know, talented, extra ambitious,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: they go and they do something great and that doesn't
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: make the other people worse because they're still doing a thing.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: But again, what I think ultimately is is that this
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: issue of millennial men, and he's not you know or
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: gen y men or whatever that he is specifically addressing
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: while avoiding talking about women that are, you know, defining
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: themselves by their hobbies is a symptom. It is not
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: the problem. Like it is a symptom of them losing
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: their meaning because and their identity that as men, because
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: it's been taken from them ultimately by our culture.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it has, and there'll also be taught to
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: take an identity from hobbies. That's the other thing that
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: I think he completely missed because he has original framework.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: Remember I said that earlier, is that people are taking
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: identities from vocations, which encourages passivity and consumption. So what
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: you're looking for is somebody else to do the work
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: for you, because you are identity is inherently passive. It's
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: something you are, so you're wanting to be flattered or
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: provided for because of the identity you have, and you know,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: so part of it I think is that, yes, I
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: think people need to look more towards If they're not
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: finding this in religion, and they're not finding it in fraternity,
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: and they're not finding in their jobs, maybe they should
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: stop thinking about their hobbies as identities and start thinking
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: about them as aspirations and also meaning and because I mean,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: where else are you going to find it? And start
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: playing and being creative and also producing. But there's another
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: aspect to all of this, because this there, as you
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: point out, have you pointed out multiple times, there is
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: a subtext to all of this that this is making
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: men unattractive, right, and I have this is the final part.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: So if you bear with me, this is the part
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: about why or how hobbies make men unattractive? Okay, And
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: I want you to go to twenty eight twenty nine,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: forty eight twenty nine, Sorry, forty eight.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: Forty eight twenty nine.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well that's yeah, I got far into this.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: I kind of jumped around a little bit, but okay,
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: forty eight twenty nine, all right, essential qualities for good pastimes.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 3: To use a contrary example of NASCAR, because NASCAR is
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 3: something that is very popular in Red States and that me,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 3: as an Ada Blue seater, just cannot for the life
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 3: of me, understand, but I kind of respect the hustle.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 3: Yesterday I also said this about rap music, where rap music,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: again is something that I consume in very limited quantities,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 3: but I kind of respect it from the outside. I
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 3: can kind of see what people like about it, And
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: the same thing is true for NASCAR. And I absolutely
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 3: love having people explain to me what they find so
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 3: valuable about things like NASCAR because it gives me the
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 3: insight into a world. Like I had this one girl.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 3: I was a mechanical engineer and undergraduate, and you know,
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 3: there weren't very many girls in the program. And I
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 3: later on in grad school transition to something that was
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: more kind of math and computer science based. But I
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 3: started out as a mechanical engineer and one girl was
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 3: really into NASCAR writing. And I was not attracted this
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 3: woman at all. I know you're thinking that I was
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 3: just I was just letting her talk so that so
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 3: that so that I could, you know, I could I
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 3: could get a good look at her or whatnot, or
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 3: maybe have a chance at asking her how but this
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: was absolutely not on the table and I had no
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 3: desire it to be. But every time she talked about NASCAR,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I have no interest in doing this. But
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: the way you're talking about this passionately, and the way
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: you're explaining your involvement in this spore of racing, this
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: is making me I could imagine an alternative life where
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: I could be really passionate about that. And I can
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 3: see how engaging this is further in human Should I
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 3: stop it?
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, just stop it. So this is what I
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: want to point out, because this is this is the
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: issue that I'm seeing. You have whole math sort of
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: telling men to sort of jump through these hoops and
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: try to turn themselves into a pretzel to justify all
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: of the bullshit that women are putting out because they're
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: afraid to commit. And here what is what we find
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: what the problem really is. He talks about how previously
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: how ner or people with men with nerdy hobbies would
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: be very self conscious and defensive about them.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: Well, they have some shame, something to be ashamed of.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: They are made to feel it.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And and and of course all of the
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: dating advice around this is to abide by women's ex
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: and just stop doing it. And he actually took that advice,
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: which we if we go to let's see, uh okay, oh,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: eighteen thirty two, not just yet, but will get to
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: go to eighteen thirty two, he took that advice. But
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: here we see he's talking about how somebody expressing their
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: passion for their hobby made him understand them more, understand
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: their perspective more. And there's an aspect of to even
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: consumptive hobbies that if you look at them deeply and
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: you think about them, and you learn to express them passionately,
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: you actually cause people to be attracted to you. And
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: it's something that I talked about previously about the movie
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: adaptation the man who was obsessed with orchids, and he
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: explained to this incredibly like sort of cynical, callous like
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: New York journalist, what it was about the orchid that
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: made him so passionate, the singularity of the orchid, And
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: she developed this instantaneous desire to him because he could
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: explain his passion in a way that conveyed meaning to her.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: And this is my point. You don't don't listen to
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: women what they consider ick in terms of hobbies, stop
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: being ashamed of them and learn, if you need to learn,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: how to express your passion and what gives these things
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: meaning to you, even if it's funk copops. You look
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: at your damn fun copop collection and you think about
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: why you're passionate, what the meaning is to you about them?
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: Because I think the real thing that women are missing
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: in their lives is meaning. And when we look at
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: these hobbies in terms of, oh, i'd have an identity,
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: I am a fun copop, No, you are destroying the meaning.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: Look at it as what am I trying to say
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: about myself and about the world with what I am doing?
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: What is the meaning in this? What is why is
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: this passion here? Why am I? Why am I being
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: driven by this passion? You present it in that way?
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: Don't present it in shame, don't present it in defensiveness.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: Present it with passion. This is the meaning. And don't
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: be led by women by saying, oh, this is anick,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: this is nick, this is nick. Believe me, if you
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: have passion and you expression with passion and you explain
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: the meaning of it in a way that resonates, it
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: won't matter what she thinks she has an ick. First
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: of all, you're not going to be led through these
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: stupid hoops. But second of all, you're doing the leading.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying, Bright, And it doesn't matter
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: the hobby. Okay, you can be collecting I don't know,
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: rocks like parking lot rocks. But if you can explain
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: it in a way that captures the passion and meaning
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: for yourself, then you create that resonance. And that's what
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: you do. That isn't being led by women's icks. It's
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: leading through passion and meaning. Okay, And I don't think that.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: I don't think that any of these people are suggesting that.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: And the reason why I bring that up is, let's
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: go to the next time code unless you have something
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: to say, Brian, So I've been.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: No, I'm ready, I'm at the time cod. So let's
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: just play it. YEP.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 3: Gathering in high school, and it was a guilty pleasure.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 3: And I stopped playing magic at the gathering in high
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 3: school largely because I felt it was unattractive to women.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: And then when I meet my wife and we get engaged,
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 3: one of the first hobbies she takes up after engagement,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: almost accidentally, is she becomes very, very interested in playing
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: Madge at the Gathering and learning how to play it. Now,
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 3: your results may vary on other women. I think it's
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: very rare to have a woman who takes up one
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: of these nerd hobbies and so passionate about it at Okay.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: So, just by accident, this guy gives up Magic the
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: Gathering and ends up with a woman who takes it up.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: And here's the thing. How likely I mean, I guess
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: it could be a complete, complete coincidence, But how likely
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: was it that his passion for Magic the Gathering actually
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: was an expression of something in him that his wife
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: was attracted to. And then she became a truck And
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: if he had kept with that, how much would their
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: relationship I'm not gonna say the relationship's gonna end, but
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: how much deeper would their relationship be if he was
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: the one who had turned her on to his passion
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: for Magic the Gathering and he gave it up? Because
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: how girls just think Magic the Gathering is an ick? No,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: it isn't. This is just hoops that they're jumping through
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: because they're afraid of commitment. Find your passion, express your passion,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: find the meaning, and well I mean, it worked out
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: for him, but how much better would it have worked
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: out if he had led her into that passion?
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yeah, I think that's yeah, Yeah, I agree.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: I think that if he met someone that like they
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: got romantically involved and it turned out that she was
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: interested in a hobby that he was interested in, there
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: was probably already some substrate of relatability there, Like why
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: why do men feel ashamed? This is like where it starts, right,
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: He felt shame because of his hobby because he had
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: this idea that it's not popular and in particular not
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: with women. But we all know the reality is is
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: that card games like magic the gathering are are popular
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: with people across the board, like we're just we're like
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: for some reason, men like they kind of internalize this
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: thing where it's like this thing I like to do
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: is considered nerdy, therefore women don't like. Meanwhile, there are
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: women that do, and they just don't share it either
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: because again they have the same you know, like stigma.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: So what probably may have happened is that they were
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: having a conversation and he brought up something that from
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: his own like experience, like he exposed the nerd in
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: him to some degree and then she was like, oh,
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: I think I can be a bit nerdy around this guy.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: And then she exposed her nerdy side too, and they
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: found that they had like this thing in common.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I mean we it's it's a little
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: bit to do a post analysis on something that already
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: sort of turned out well yeah, presumably. But like I said,
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: he didn't even need to be ashamed because Magic the
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: Gathering expressed a part of him that was attractive to
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: his future wife. You know, he didn't need to be
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: and you don't know how that's gonna happen, right, He
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: never needed to be ashamed of it, never needed to
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: stop playing it.
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: Do you even want to be somebody that's gonna make
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: you feel ashamed for liking something like I'm sorry? But
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: if he had said, look, I'm a magic I like
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: Magic the Atherine and she was like, well goodbye, that
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: gives me the ick. Guess what you just saved yourself
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: like a lot of headache. And you know what I
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: mean I mean is.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there but there is like the thing is that
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: there is that. But everybody's pretty much average. And if
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: women are in this situation and you actually want to
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: try to break them out of this mentality. Yeah, I
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: think that it is expressing your passions, learning to stand
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: up for them and be confident in them, expressing them,
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: expressing the passion, expressing what it is about them that
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: gives you meaning, don't take an identity from it. Understand
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: what you're aspiring to in pursuing this right and understand
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: the meaning it brings into the world, and think about
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: things in that way. Tell the story of your passion, right,
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: and that can at least break the women out of
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: this fugue state that they're in and this peter natural
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: courtship with the camera that are even open to that,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: because again I think that and the reason why I
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: bring this up is I think that for the average
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: men and woman, men want to be able to present
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: something to women that as an emergent property of masculinity,
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: of whatever unique value that they bring to the world
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: and have that acknowledged is a unique value, right, and
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: women sort of want that as well, you know, And
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: what we're really lacking in our world is meaning. And
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: I think that. I mean, men can take risks to
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know, drive a car faster than anyone else.
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: They can take risks to test a rocket they can
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: take risks to fight a campaign, you know, go to war,
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: and they can also take risks in being inspired and
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: invested in something right. Yeah, in in something unique or
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: new or something purposeful or meaningful, right, And you know
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: that's that's what I think men women are really missing.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: And it's not what and jumping through their hoops like
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: home Maths suggests or these men suggest or avoiding their
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: X and turning yourself into a freking pretzel to slither
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: your way through all of the maze of bullshit. I
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: don't think that's where it's at. It's expressing your meaning,
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: learning your meaning, and expressing your passion. In my opinion,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: like I'm just a female, I'm avoid I think.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: That people who are passionate about something can tend to
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: be more attractive. I mean depends, like if you really
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: know it and you really feel strongly about it, and
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 2: you talk about it and you're shameless, I think that
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: it can it it's better, and it's it's more honest,
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: it's sincere, and I think that people want that. I
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: got a couple of rumble rants I should read out,
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: and then I think we should wrap it up because
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: it's eight o'clock. And I got to get up early tomorrow.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: Noba Fan twenty one gave us a dollar and says,
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: my issue with home mass comment is he doesn't distinguish
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 2: healthy consumption in a hobby and living an unhealthy lifestyle.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: Quote TV is bad for you, Comic books are bad
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: for you, video games, anime, et cetera. Quote. Well, yeah,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, like if somebody has a problem with addiction
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: to something, whether it's like that story about Devin Stack, who,
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: by the way, is he had a YouTube channel called
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: black Pilled and I think he's on like rumble now
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: because his content is not YouTube friendly. That is not
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: a normal person. That's a person struggling with something. And
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: I think to simply say, well, they were addicted to porn,
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: you know, I think that's an over simpleification. I think
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: that something like that, like these addictions or compulsions are
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: are they're symptoms of something else, something something wrong with
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: that person. You know that you probably have to look
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: at on a case by case basis. So yeah, I
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: agree with you, Nova Fan. Then he gives another dollar
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: and says, now that I think about it, I never
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: found reading books fun because I could only pick school
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: approved books for school work. And never as leisure. Heaven forbid,
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: I have fun in between non stop working. Thank you
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: for that. Yeah, I think that it can give you
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: a bit of a stigma, like you know, you have
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: like you think of books and it makes you think
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: of school, and then you think of like what you
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: didn't like about school, so you're repulsed by books. I
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: get that, all right. That's it for the rumble rants.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we're good, all right. So if you enjoy
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: this content, you want to support the show, please mosey
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: on over to feed the Badger dot com slash support. Also,
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: I've started up memberships on YouTube because they kept pestering me.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: It gives, yeah, I did, if you give, if you
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: if you become a member, you get little emojis and stuff,
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: and I figure that would liven up the chat.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: And uh well I do get the thing that makes
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: them bounce around, so that's cool.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So nothing is changing for all of you
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: who aren't members. The only difference is that members will,
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: I guess, also get some of the after shows, which
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: are also available at feed the Badger dot subscribe. So
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: nothing is changing for anybody, but you get you get
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: emojis and after shows and I'm also going to probably
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: put out some content just for members and uh and
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: supporters three feed the Badger and Patreon. So anyway, if
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: that is of interest to you, that should be a
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: link at some point in the low bar. Oh yeah,
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: I forgot to edit the low bar, but it'll be
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: there and they're available. The the emojis aren't very expensive,
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: but anyway, so that's a thing. Feedbadger dot com for
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: support for the usual support methods, and also we are
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: going to be doing a my meet up September twenty eighth.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: Go to Feedbadger dot calm slash events for more information
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: and uh yeah, if you want to send us a comment,
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: and anytime after the show is over, feed the Badger
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: dot com slash just the tip. All right, back to you, Brian.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: All right, well, if you guys like this video, please
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: hit like subscribe. If you're not already subscribed, hit the
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: bell notification, leave us a comment, let us know you
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: guys think about what we discussed on the show today.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: If you don't watch the video yourself, the full three
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: and a half hour stream is in the description of
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: this video. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: Please, Oh my god, someone has already become a spore
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: and synth through dozen. Oh although though those are your emojis, Okay,
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: never mind.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: Sorry, Oh I did I did that. I just want
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: to throw them in there real quick, all right. So anyway,
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: please please please share this video because sharing his care
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: than Thank you so much for coming on today's episode
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: of What is This Maintaining Frame? And we'll talk to
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: you guys in the next video.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: Have God have been a dating show? Yeah?
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 2: I guess so.
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 4: Men's Right activists are machines, dude. Okay, they are literal machines.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 4: They are talking point machines. They are impossible to deal with,
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 4: especially if you have, like especially if you have like
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 4: a couple of dudes who have good memory.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: On top of that too, holy shit, you're fucked