Latest / Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD / 326: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Longevity & Recovery: The Science of Compression & Circulation

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326: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Longevity & Recovery: The Science of Compression & Circulation · Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD

• 0:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go to podcast for the most cutting edge insights integrative and functional medicine.
• 0:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm your host, Dr. Jill and with each episode we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation.
• 0:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Join me as I interview medical experts, innovators and people of all types to help you on your way to optimal health, longevity and performance.
• 0:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Hopefully just bringing you answers to the questions you didn't even know you had.
• 0:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Today I'm interviewing a product expert, Eric from Hyperice and super excited to share with you one of my favorite recovery devices.
• 0:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Stay tuned because if you don't have this in your arsenal, you're going to want to either try it or buy it or go to a gym that has it or a clinic.
• 0:44
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's very accessible and I think it will really change your game.
• 0:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Before I do, I just want to remind you that we at Flat Iron Functional Medicine, my clinic near Boulder, Colorado are accepting new patients.
• 0:56
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you're interested in becoming a patient, give us a call at 303-993-7910 or email info flatiron functional medicine.com Also, if you've been on here, you've heard me say before, we have loads of products and services special curated for you@doctor Jill health.com check it out.
• 1:16
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You get 15% off your first order.
• 1:17
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• 1:31
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• 1:39
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• 1:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I love to put that on at night.
• 1:42
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• 1:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It gives your skin that glow and it kind of overnight just hydrates those cells.
• 1:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So the collagen booster, the Vita C E serum I use in the morning, those are two of our best selling products.
• 1:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Just hop on over to Dr. Jill health.com and check that out.
• 1:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Okay, let me introduce Eric.
• 2:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Eric Fernandez is senior Director of Hyperice Rehab Division, a global company at the forefront of recovery and performance technology used by all of the professional athletes and Olympians.
• 2:10
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You'll hear his story and how these devices have become a mainstay for athletes, professional athletes and optimal performance.
• 2:17
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But you're also going to hear today more uses like lymphatic issues and drainage and mass cell and pots and dysautonomia.
• 2:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We talk about all that and more.
• 2:26
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: He focuses on advancing innovative that support physical recovery, mental Wellness and human performance.
• 2:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Let's welcome Eric to the show.
• 2:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Eric, here we are actually again.
• 2:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Although people don't know, we had a little bit of a failed audio on the first one.
• 2:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So here we are again.
• 2:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm so excited to be with you for Resiliency Radio.
• 2:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I want to talk about your influence in the company and the products that you bring because I feel like these devices are really critical for optimal health and performance.
• 2:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But before we jump into that and what people could expect from that, what kind of people would you benefit?
• 3:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I want to hear just a bit about the company and your story and kind of how this came together.
• 3:05
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah.
• 3:06
  Eric Fernandez: Dr. Jill, thank you so much for having me.
• 3:08
  Eric Fernandez: Really excited to be here and really excited to hopefully spread the word, so to speak, right.
• 3:13
  Eric Fernandez: And expose hyperice and NormaTec compression system and all of our products to more folks, right.
• 3:19
  Eric Fernandez: To have that impact on their day to day quality of life.
• 3:22
  Eric Fernandez: That's probably the best segue I can give you, right?
• 3:24
  Eric Fernandez: Hyperice is a company that makes physical recovery products.
• 3:30
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 3:31
  Eric Fernandez: Our goal is to help enable you to live a happier, healthier, more fulfilled life.
• 3:36
  Eric Fernandez: We do that through creating really innovative technology that enables movement.
• 3:40
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 3:40
  Eric Fernandez: That can cut down on pain, can help with range of motion.
• 3:43
  Eric Fernandez: There's a ton of benefits, you know, and I know we want to be respectful of time here today, so I won't go too long, but you know, Hyperice as an organization was founded in 2012, but we're actually a bit of a conglomerate.
• 3:56
  Eric Fernandez: The Normatec compression system, which I believe we're going to spend most of the time talking about, was founded almost 30 years ago by an MD rehab physician specifically to treat lymphedema.
• 4:06
  Eric Fernandez: Although it carries a number of great applications and is used very widely and extensively today.
• 4:11
  Eric Fernandez: So we're proud to be used.
• 4:13
  Eric Fernandez: Our tools are used by 100% of pro sports teams here in North America, by Olympians, collegiate athletes, individuals in their home.
• 4:22
  Eric Fernandez: They're used extensively in healthcare, outpatient reh, physical therapy, chiropractic, orthopedics, wellness, Delta sky lounges.
• 4:31
  Eric Fernandez: I mean the list goes on.
• 4:34
  Eric Fernandez: And yet every day we talk to folks who don't know the amazing benefits that these products can bring or ultimately how accessible they are, whether it's at your clinician's office, at your fitness or wellness facility, or purchasing them for in your own home.
• 4:47
  Eric Fernandez: So yeah, excited to be here and probably didn't answer any of your questions, Eric.
• 4:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That was perfect.
• 4:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So what I love that frame.
• 4:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: There is especially you mentioned the MD rehab.
• 4:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Dr.
• 4:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: The NormaTec compression device.
• 5:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What I saw was in my local gym, they had these devices.
• 5:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I've seen them multiple places like that when I've gone to spas in Mexico and Europe.
• 5:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I mean, they're all over the world, really.
• 5:10
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I've always been fascinated and my medical mind has seen them and be like, oh, my goodness, this would be really good for my patients with dysautonomia and mast cell issues and lymphedema, which is kind of one of the original things.
• 5:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I love this because it's been this big performance fourth sports longevity thing, which is amazing.
• 5:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And a lot of my listeners are interested in that, like optimal health, performance recovery, which we can talk about first.
• 5:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But then I also want to talk a little bit about the more of the patients who are actually chronically ill and issues with.
• 5:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What I see is this tissue, fascial lymphedema, kinds of things that is very prone to those patients with mast cell activation.
• 5:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: They just.
• 5:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's almost like sluggish limbs.
• 5:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Sluggish.
• 5:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And so these devices are a manual way to actually move the fluid.
• 5:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Let's talk first about those who are interested in performance.
• 6:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Kind of your huge audience all over the world of pro athletes.
• 6:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What do most athletes and people use these for?
• 6:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: How does it help recovery?
• 6:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And how could someone who's just overall in good fitness shape use this in their doctor's office, at the gym?
• 6:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: In my office.
• 6:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: To get recovery.
• 6:18
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah.
• 6:18
  Eric Fernandez: So let's back up just a step just to make sure we cover our bases.
• 6:21
  Eric Fernandez: So Normatec compression therapy, what we're talking about, they're these wearable sleeves, in fact, over one of my shoulders.
• 6:27
  Eric Fernandez: There we go.
• 6:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: See them?
• 6:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah.
• 6:28
  Eric Fernandez: You can legs.
• 6:29
  Eric Fernandez: And so they're basically these garments that you can wear on your legs, your hip, torso, or your arms, and they fill up with air and they essentially massage your limbs.
• 6:38
  Eric Fernandez: That's a very layperson way to say it.
• 6:41
  Eric Fernandez: You know, we've been doing this for, like I said, 30 years.
• 6:43
  Eric Fernandez: And it's going to help improve blood flow, circulation, overall vascular health.
• 6:48
  Eric Fernandez: Really effective for range of motion, for decreasing muscle soreness, for overall muscle hygiene.
• 6:54
  Eric Fernandez: You know, ultimately a lot of what you're talking about, Dr. And there's a myriad of other benefits, and I think we'll start to unpack some of those.
• 7:01
  Eric Fernandez: As I mentioned, were founded really as a medical device company by a female clinician to treat lymphedema.
• 7:07
  Eric Fernandez: It was her son who first took us into the sports performance world.
• 7:11
  Eric Fernandez: He started knocking on training room doors, thinking about acute injury rehab.
• 7:15
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 7:15
  Eric Fernandez: You sprain ankle, you blow out a knee, whatever it is, let me help with the swelling.
• 7:20
  Eric Fernandez: Yes.
• 7:21
  Eric Fernandez: And what we actually found, it was a program out of Florida.
• 7:25
  Eric Fernandez: They actually came up with a term.
• 7:26
  Eric Fernandez: They started buying tons of Normatec and we're like, why are you buying so many?
• 7:30
  Eric Fernandez: You can't have that many ankle injuries or whatever.
• 7:33
  Eric Fernandez: He goes, well no, all our players want to use it before they work out.
• 7:37
  Eric Fernandez: After they work out.
• 7:38
  Eric Fernandez: We call it Fresh Legs faster.
• 7:39
  Eric Fernandez: Because if they use them.
• 7:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh, that's a great term.
• 7:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Fresh Legs faster.
• 7:44
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah.
• 7:44
  Eric Fernandez: And that honestly became our tagline for the longest time.
• 7:47
  Eric Fernandez: We sort of, you know, as you rebrand and grow, we've moved away from that.
• 7:50
  Eric Fernandez: But that's one of our original taglines is Fresh Legs Faster.
• 7:54
  Eric Fernandez: Because if you use NormaTec immediately post physical activity, muscle damage protocol.
• 7:59
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 8:00
  Eric Fernandez: You're going to see a number of benefits.
• 8:02
  Eric Fernandez: But specifically it's been shown through a number of independent peer reviewed studies to help alleviate or decrease delayed onset muscle soreness.
• 8:12
  Eric Fernandez: I think what's really cool is we've also looked at the body's adaptive response to ensure that we're not blunting that.
• 8:17
  Eric Fernandez: So right.
• 8:18
  Eric Fernandez: Where there's, I don't want to muddy the waters with other interventions, but if you look at like cold therapy, that can have its positives, it can have negatives.
• 8:25
  Eric Fernandez: From an adaptation standpoint, Normatax actually been been shown to help up regulate some of the different proteins that are responsible for like muscle synthesis by like 33, 34 per intervention.
• 8:38
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 8:38
  Eric Fernandez: While decreasing lactate accelerating return to baseline.
• 8:42
  Eric Fernandez: If we look at your markers for like inflammation, for example, so from a recovery standpoint, that's where it took off, you know, and everyone's using it because who hasn't done an activity in two days later they're like, oh man, I'm so can't walk now.
• 8:57
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah.
• 8:58
  Eric Fernandez: And so man, if I can sit in these awesome garments and basically get a leg massage on my couch or wherever and not have that's amazing.
• 9:06
  Eric Fernandez: I think what's really exciting when you ask like today, your audience, performance focused individuals, just anyone who's trying to do an activity that makes them happy, I actually think the pre activity intervention is the most exciting.
• 9:19
  Eric Fernandez: So you know, if you look at Normatech from a pre activity intervention and doing it for 15, 20 minutes prior to a dynamic warm up, some stretching, et cetera, prior to taking the so to speak, you're going to Stimulate circulation systematically.
• 9:33
  Eric Fernandez: That's something we've consistently seen both by looking at flow through some of your arteries, but also doing, like, unilateral lower limb testing and looking at the.
• 9:44
  Eric Fernandez: Like doing a unilateral lower limb intervention with Normatec, but.
• 9:47
  Eric Fernandez: But then testing blood flow to the contralateral limb and showing really clinically significant improvements there.
• 9:53
  Eric Fernandez: It's a systematic impact.
• 9:55
  Eric Fernandez: So you're priming the pump, right?
• 9:57
  Eric Fernandez: You're going to see really nice improvements to range of motion through the joint.
• 10:00
  Eric Fernandez: So if we think about preparing yourself for movement and maybe injury prevention, really powerful.
• 10:07
  Eric Fernandez: It's relaxing, and it's easy to do.
• 10:09
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 10:10
  Eric Fernandez: You can do on the couch, you do in the back of the car, on an airplane.
• 10:13
  Eric Fernandez: I mean, truly anywhere.
• 10:15
  Eric Fernandez: And so I think that ease of access and that pre intervention is hugely important to decreasing injury risk and allowing you to perform better.
• 10:22
  Eric Fernandez: And then, of course, using it on the recovery side.
• 10:25
  Eric Fernandez: Amazing.
• 10:26
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Okay, I love that.
• 10:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: A couple of things that came to mind as you're talking.
• 10:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: First of all, I always love.
• 10:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: There's so many things out there that I prescribe to patients, and they're like, go do an hour of this Olympic retraining or go do.
• 10:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And it's a thing where that's on their to do list.
• 10:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's an hour of their day, and it's more work.
• 10:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 10:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I loved what you just hinted at.
• 10:44
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That I maybe think.
• 10:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I think maybe is not talked about enough is that this is a receptive thing where you could actually read or relax or even watch TV and actually allow this to work while you're just literally sitting there.
• 10:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I love that because there's so many things we're going out and doing more and doing more.
• 10:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And this is actually something that you can actually receive and enjoy while you're doing it.
• 11:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's very pleasant.
• 11:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's very.
• 11:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I think it's very enjoyable.
• 11:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: The other thing that came to mind was years ago, I'm a skier.
• 11:10
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I love to ski.
• 11:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And years ago, I'll never forget, I went to Snowbird, and right before the day of skiing, they had this class that was rolling, foam rolling.
• 11:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'd never gone to a foam rolling class for an hour, but I did.
• 11:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I had my very best day of skiing ever in my life.
• 11:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Like, full day, all out.
• 11:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I mean, you know, steeps and deeps.
• 11:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I realized, again, that is very different from what you're.
• 11:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You're talking about.
• 11:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But I would fall off the roller.
• 11:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It was kind of hard to balance, and it wasn't as easy.
• 11:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But in a way the mechanism to me is similar because you're moving fluid, you're moving tissues, you're changing blood flow and you're stretching out that stuff.
• 11:47
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I could see that also if someone's used to rolling, combining this or maybe using this instead.
• 11:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Any thoughts on how that might be similar or different?
• 11:56
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 11:57
  Eric Fernandez: So, and of course my mind's going to some of the other products we make, but I'm going to try to stay as close to home as I can here.
• 12:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That's okay.
• 12:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Go for it.
• 12:04
  Eric Fernandez: So, yeah, we've looked at this actually.
• 12:07
  Eric Fernandez: For example, we looked at young, active, fairly top tier gymnasts and dancers, not professional, but collegiate.
• 12:16
  Eric Fernandez: And we looked at a single NormaTec intervention of 15 minutes prior to activity.
• 12:21
  Eric Fernandez: And we compared that to, you know, a control group who basically did nothing and another group that did some static stretching and sort of what was the other standard of warming up for them at the time?
• 12:32
  Eric Fernandez: And this study is 2015, I want to say.
• 12:34
  Eric Fernandez: So it's been a minute, but it still holds true.
• 12:37
  Eric Fernandez: What we saw was when the Normatech group, about an average of like 28, 29% improved range of motion through your lower extremity joints.
• 12:46
  Eric Fernandez: And again, this is a group that's already fairly flexible and mobile.
• 12:49
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah, we saw it obviously significantly outperform the control that basically did nothing and be comparable to or statistically speaking, slightly better than like static structure.
• 12:59
  Eric Fernandez: So then I say, well, think about, well, what if we stack that?
• 13:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah.
• 13:02
  Eric Fernandez: What if you do NormaTec while you're, you know, watching your, you know, if you're in some sort of organized thing, you know, while you're watching tape, you're doing a pre thing briefing, you're meditating, you're chilling out, whatever it is, you're warming up with your cup of coffee before hitting the slopes.
• 13:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah.
• 13:16
  Eric Fernandez: And then you go and roll for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, then you do some dynamic stretching.
• 13:22
  Eric Fernandez: It's accelerating the body's natural process and it's going to allow those other interventions, I think, to be more impactful.
• 13:27
  Eric Fernandez: Because you sort of already started, to your point, right.
• 13:31
  Eric Fernandez: Physiologically already started to get the pump moving.
• 13:33
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 13:34
  Eric Fernandez: To change those fluid dynamics within the tissue within your body.
• 13:38
  Eric Fernandez: So I think that's huge.
• 13:40
  Eric Fernandez: One thing I want to mention on this, because you mentioned foam rolling.
• 13:42
  Eric Fernandez: So I have to hit it.
• 13:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah.
• 13:43
  Eric Fernandez: Hyperice makes a vibrating foam roller and we have a lot of products that do vibration and percussion, I think, you know.
• 13:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah, I know the perfection.
• 13:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I didn't know the vibrating foam roller.
• 13:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So this is amazing because.
• 13:53
  Eric Fernandez: So the vibrating foam roller is awesome because one, it makes foam rolling a little bit more tenable.
• 13:56
  Eric Fernandez: Like it alleviates some of that pain or like there's many pain inhibition.
• 14:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Well that's where and when you talk about your product because that's where I struggled because I couldn't consistently.
• 14:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It was either too painful or I get imbalanced.
• 14:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I wasn't very good at it and I felt like the foam rolling went to the wayside because it was so hard for me to do well.
• 14:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So it's one of those things so.
• 14:15
  Eric Fernandez: Many people know, it's like you should do it.
• 14:18
  Eric Fernandez: You can go down a research rabbit hole of like what parts of the body and how.
• 14:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 14:22
  Eric Fernandez: Whatever it is.
• 14:23
  Eric Fernandez: But, but when you add vibration on you get you know one better changes to the tissue dynamic and fluid dynamics.
• 14:30
  Eric Fernandez: You get impact to the or input to the nervous system as well.
• 14:33
  Eric Fernandez: So you're going to get better muscle recruitment and activation.
• 14:37
  Eric Fernandez: And doing that prior to activity is really impactful both for that, you know, warm up movement injury prevention.
• 14:44
  Eric Fernandez: And we've looked at things like hamstring dominant athletes, sort of looking at all the markers that you would point to in terms of like preventing ACL injury.
• 14:52
  Eric Fernandez: But it's also really interesting.
• 14:53
  Eric Fernandez: We have research that's emerging where if you use percussion or vibration just prior to the muscle damage protocol, so just prior to the activity you'll see improvements to delayed onset muscle soreness, reducing delayed onset muscle soreness even with no post activity intervention, which I think is really cool.
• 15:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh, that's amazing.
• 15:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That is truly.
• 15:11
  Eric Fernandez: So you can sort of hit two birds, one stone in that capacity.
• 15:14
  Eric Fernandez: And, and I'm just going to make sure I cover my bases here because sometimes when you think of these products, vibrating foam rollers, NormaTec Pro athletes, you think if you're a certain demographic, like my mom, maybe who's 72 will be tomorrow and is a budding pickleball all star, she might say that's not for me.
• 15:31
  Eric Fernandez: So we did a research study with our vibrating foam roller on an older female population.
• 15:35
  Eric Fernandez: The medium age was 72 years old as a matter of fact.
• 15:38
  Eric Fernandez: And we saw really nice improvements to functional movement and range of motion that we sort of see all the time.
• 15:44
  Eric Fernandez: Muscle recruitment, endurance, see that pretty consistently.
• 15:47
  Eric Fernandez: You saw proprioceptive benefit.
• 15:48
  Eric Fernandez: We saw improvements of cardiorespiratory function.
• 15:51
  Eric Fernandez: So you put all those together and you're like that's a really impactful 5, 10 minutes.
• 15:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Commercial hyperice, take one.
• 16:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Hey guys.
• 16:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Hope you're enjoying this episode with Eric from Hyperice.
• 16:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Just want to remind you that you can get all kinds of products and services for optimal performance, longevity and healthy skin@doctor Jill health.com jump on over and check out the products and services that we offer there.
• 16:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you're looking for a recovery formula, one of my favorites is our amino essentials and our creatine monohydrate with the brain mag.
• 16:28
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's called Dr. Jill Pink Drink.
• 16:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Just search Pink Drink and you'll get all the ingredients there.
• 16:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You can mix that in the morning it of my favorite daily habits that I use every single day and you can find that@doctor Jill health.com okay, let's get back to our show.
• 16:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm guessing it is far more beneficial to the elderly population than just even a pro athlete because they've got so many other things.
• 16:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You know, the cryo and the sauna and the IVs and the, and whereas and this is one more amazing thing versus a pickleball 75 year old woman.
• 16:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: This is amazing and to me it's very accessible and whether you go to the gym or get your own devices, it's quite affordable I think it's very, very accessible to the average.
• 17:07
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah, I appreciate you saying that and I'm with you know 100 and you know, as you know doctor like I oversee that sort of really the medical and rehab side of our business and I'm very bullish that actually to your point, a geriatric population or an active aging adult is going to get significantly greater impact from our products than LeBron James.
• 17:30
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 17:31
  Eric Fernandez: And, and, and fill in the pro athlete or elite young you we're gonna have statistically speaking but also quality of life much bigger impact.
• 17:42
  Eric Fernandez: And I think that's some of the stuff we've seen.
• 17:44
  Eric Fernandez: Whether it's my mom needing to warm up appropriately before pickleball when she's all of a sudden cutting and moving side to side and getting competitive again after years of not being competitive with the racket sport and making sure that she sets herself up for the best chance of not getting hurt so she can keep doing what she loves.
• 18:01
  Eric Fernandez: You know, I reference, I talk about my 92 year old grandmother all the time who is unfortunately be but uses normatech every day from a vascular maintenance standpoint.
• 18:11
  Eric Fernandez: And you've got DVT prevention.
• 18:13
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 18:14
  Eric Fernandez: Normatech has been shown to decrease arterial stiffness.
• 18:18
  Eric Fernandez: There's so much there that population, I mean they benefit so much from daily access and to Your point?
• 18:27
  Eric Fernandez: It's, it's if you can get it at like a lifetime fitness or one of our other fitness partners, it's often free or a very low cost.
• 18:33
  Eric Fernandez: Add on to your membership, you can find a number of wellness facilities.
• 18:37
  Eric Fernandez: And to your point, it's, you know, I started a NormaTec system nine, 10 years ago, was like $5,000.
• 18:44
  Eric Fernandez: And we've worked really hard as we've grown to drive down the cost and now, you know a retail for a like system's like 900.
• 18:51
  Eric Fernandez: We have that calf wrap Normatec GO application which is great for flying as well and things of that nature.
• 18:56
  Eric Fernandez: And that's sub 400 and they're all FSA HSA eligible.
• 18:59
  Eric Fernandez: I mean it's not low dollars.
• 19:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah, I think but again for years.
• 19:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That's exactly.
• 19:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I think it's very doable and we're always looking at those devices.
• 19:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: There's a lot of things I recommend that are five grand and above and that just is not to the average person.
• 19:12
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But I love that you've really worked.
• 19:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So you just kind of mentioned this.
• 19:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Back in my residency we always had DVD prophylaxis as part of any bedbound patient.
• 19:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 19:21
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And so I want to shift just a little.
• 19:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We talked about optimal performance.
• 19:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: 75 Year old pickleballer.
• 19:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: All these people we have, I see a lot of patients with complex chronic illness and some of the growing things are mast cell activation, lymphedema, post cancer people who are more disabled or more immobile or all these, they're not pro athletes, they're not even amateur Athlet.
• 19:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Talk just a little bit about is there science with we Obviously I'm guessing the science is around like reduction of lactic acid for those athletes.
• 19:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But what about like just lymphatic drainage and toxin removal?
• 19:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Do we have maybe theory that is probably happening.
• 19:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Do we have any actually direct evidence on the more lymphatic drainage side of things or even fascial membranes.
• 20:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Is there anything out there on those types of uses?
• 20:08
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah, quite a bit.
• 20:09
  Eric Fernandez: I mean I will say that a lot of the deeper research where we've even done like biopsies and SAMP is being focused on blood flow and we do think that is driving a lot of it.
• 20:19
  Eric Fernandez: But absolutely there's solid research and again were founded and still carry the indication to treat lymphedema.
• 20:26
  Eric Fernandez: So increasing lymphatic return is something we've been consistently shown to do and are highly effective at.
• 20:32
  Eric Fernandez: There's also some really cool research out there.
• 20:34
  Eric Fernandez: When you look at lymphedema care that's emerging right now, that looks at the different types of interventions, right?
• 20:39
  Eric Fernandez: From sort of manual lymphatic drainage to wrapping to pneumatic compression.
• 20:43
  Eric Fernandez: And when you sort of look at every possible combination of those or standalone, the number one factor that seems to drive results is adding pneumatic compression therapy.
• 20:53
  Eric Fernandez: Pneumatic compression therapy with any of those is always the best result.
• 20:59
  Eric Fernandez: And I think there's so the simple answer is yes, we consistently see improvements to lymphatic return and we have a ton of research looking at lactate clearance clearing metabolites at large.
• 21:11
  Eric Fernandez: And you know, also looking at things, again, some of this is more muscle damage, but looking like returning to baseline when it looks at like inflammation markers and things of that nature.
• 21:21
  Eric Fernandez: But we look at those folks who, you know, whether it's a lymphedema patient, folks with fluid retention issues, whether that's a chronic condition, whether it's a post surgery scenario, right, where you have lymph nodes that were destroyed, whether it's lack of ambulation, I think about that all the time, right?
• 21:38
  Eric Fernandez: Because like the gastroc anemias complex is that second heart mechanism and you lose that.
• 21:44
  Eric Fernandez: Whether that's due to weight, lifestyle disability, I mean there's so many factors, but at the end of the day you lose that.
• 21:50
  Eric Fernandez: So if we look at normatech real quick, some things we've seen in the research.
• 21:54
  Eric Fernandez: So a 30 minute Normatech session, passively laying in bed, wherever you are, from a circulatory circulation standpoint is equivalent to a 30 minute low intensity static stationary bike ride.
• 22:08
  Eric Fernandez: And we see that both in terms of lactate clearance, we see that in terms of blood flow and we also see that in terms of some of the muscle positive muscle stressors, right, they're going to start to cause adaptation and release of some of your muscle generating proteins.
• 22:23
  Eric Fernandez: So I'd rather have you do a bike ride, no doubt about it, I'd rather have you walk or run, et cetera.
• 22:28
  Eric Fernandez: But if you can't, I mean, there's a lot of, a lot of benefit there.
• 22:33
  Eric Fernandez: So I know I'm on a bit of a tangent.
• 22:35
  Eric Fernandez: You should probably ask me more questions.
• 22:36
  Eric Fernandez: And I'm just like, no, that is.
• 22:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So perfect because I'm thinking of you.
• 22:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And right now several of my patients, I do virtually and they are bed bound and they are so with this mast cell activation, there's a subset of patients with very severe orthostatic hypotension or POTS dysautonomia, which for those of you out there who don't know what that is, it means the regulation of the body system to regulate blood pressure.
• 22:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Blood flow to the brain and upper extremities is impaired.
• 22:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So they'll often run very low blood pressures and when they stand up they get dizzy.
• 23:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And to me this kind of thing is so beneficial because they're either hardly able to get up and go to the bathroom and this is automatically, like you said, there's lots of evidence on the blood flow return and really from a POTS dysautonomia mast cell perspective, usually it's a dysfunction in the endothelium and getting that blood flow back, which this could manually help that.
• 23:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So this, that was super helpful as we kind of wrap up a little here.
• 23:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: One thing I wanted to highlight that you mentioned, but I want to be sure we kind of just briefly talk about it.
• 23:31
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Some clinicians could be worried about does this impair recovery just because you're, you know, changing that.
• 23:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I think you actually specific the body's.
• 23:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So basically this body's natural adaptation, which sometimes includes inflammation of the muscles or small micro tears that actually help you build more muscle.
• 23:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But what you mentioned earlier was this does not interfere, as far as we know, with any sort of repair recovery.
• 23:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Do you want to mention a little bit more about that?
• 23:56
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah.
• 23:56
  Eric Fernandez: So we've looked at a number of markers there to look really specifically at this.
• 24:02
  Eric Fernandez: So yes, inflammation is part of the process.
• 24:04
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 24:04
  Eric Fernandez: It is positive to agree.
• 24:06
  Eric Fernandez: We've looked specifically though at you know, not just like increasing nitric oxide production.
• 24:13
  Eric Fernandez: Super helpful.
• 24:14
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 24:14
  Eric Fernandez: We've also looked at, you know, moving, reducing, like androgen one, you know, to sort of like that.
• 24:22
  Eric Fernandez: Protein.
• 24:23
  Eric Fernandez: That's protein, right, yeah.
• 24:24
  Eric Fernandez: That, you know, can sort of break down muscle.
• 24:26
  Eric Fernandez: We've seen the ability like a Normatech intervention is going to reduce that by 32 at least.
• 24:30
  Eric Fernandez: We have a couple studies that are equivalent to that.
• 24:32
  Eric Fernandez: Okay.
• 24:33
  Eric Fernandez: Where we're also going to increase all of those positive markers we're looking for.
• 24:37
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 24:37
  Eric Fernandez: And the proteins again that are responsible for muscle creation.
• 24:41
  Eric Fernandez: So the long story short is one, if somebody really wants to dive deep, we've got a phenomenal library of like 30 plus studies on Norma tech that look at this and some of them way over my head, but they're really cool.
• 24:52
  Eric Fernandez: And what we have looked at is that we really cannot stunt, no matter how close to the muscle damage, we cannot stunt the adaptive process.
• 24:59
  Eric Fernandez: I always look at it as like, really, in my mind, NormaTec is ultimately helping accelerate and enhance the body's natural process.
• 25:08
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 25:08
  Eric Fernandez: Which I think is a really holistic way to think about it.
• 25:11
  Eric Fernandez: So, yeah, again, zero concerns there on that front.
• 25:15
  Eric Fernandez: And again, you know, I'll close this part out with sharing a fun story.
• 25:19
  Eric Fernandez: A long time ago.
• 25:20
  Eric Fernandez: You know, this is going back, like, early mid 2000s, maybe late 2000s, before were who we are today, meaning used by every pro athlete under the sun.
• 25:30
  Eric Fernandez: The U.S. olympic Committee purchased a handful of systems.
• 25:32
  Eric Fernandez: Wouldn't really tell us why.
• 25:34
  Eric Fernandez: Turns out they were doing their own.
• 25:35
  Eric Fernandez: Dr. Bill Sands was doing his own research and validation of our products, as well as a few others.
• 25:42
  Eric Fernandez: Initially, he wouldn't give us the results of the study, but they then bought 30 systems, proceeded to author a number of studies on the benefits of normatech.
• 25:53
  Eric Fernandez: And if you go to the usoc, they have a museum in Colorado Springs all about athletic performance and development of the sport.
• 26:03
  Eric Fernandez: NormaTec's a featured exhibit.
• 26:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Wow.
• 26:05
  Eric Fernandez: And promise you, we didn't pay for it.
• 26:07
  Eric Fernandez: We didn't ask for it.
• 26:08
  Eric Fernandez: Like, they.
• 26:09
  Eric Fernandez: Because normatech has had such an impact on the health, longevity, and performance of their athletes, it's.
• 26:14
  Eric Fernandez: It's pretty cool to see.
• 26:15
  Eric Fernandez: So whether you're at that tier, you're my grandmother, you're anyone in between, and I, you know, I know we have to wrap, but I mean, I want to close with this too, because it popped into my head, you know, you mentioned pots and some of those more complicated conditions.
• 26:28
  Eric Fernandez: We see benefit there consistently with things like reduction of headache symptoms.
• 26:32
  Eric Fernandez: We see a lot of benefits on the neurological side.
• 26:35
  Eric Fernandez: And sleep hygiene is a really important one that I think, you know, we don't think about or talk about enough.
• 26:41
  Eric Fernandez: And people think about putting their phones down and think about all the different things they can do.
• 26:44
  Eric Fernandez: And most of us are really bad at these habits.
• 26:47
  Eric Fernandez: NormaTec has an incredible impact at downregulating your ANS and promoting relaxation.
• 26:52
  Eric Fernandez: And we've seen this.
• 26:53
  Eric Fernandez: Like, we have almost 30 years of our medical patients, their spouses.
• 26:57
  Eric Fernandez: When we do.
• 26:58
  Eric Fernandez: When we do progress notes documenting that they have reported a reduction or alleviation of restless leg syndrome, we go to some of these large medical conferences when there's literally 15,000 people on a trade show floor, and it's like fluorescent lights and music, and it's just a sensory assault on your body.
• 27:15
  Eric Fernandez: I leave my head is spinning.
• 27:17
  Eric Fernandez: We're there putting people in normatex and demoing the product.
• 27:20
  Eric Fernandez: Correct.
• 27:20
  Eric Fernandez: Every time we do it, people fall asleep.
• 27:22
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah.
• 27:23
  Eric Fernandez: They're staring at fluorescent lights, it's everything.
• 27:25
  Eric Fernandez: And it's just like it is so from a relaxation, from an ease of use, from a portability standpoint.
• 27:30
  Eric Fernandez: And that daily impact, I mean I'm Dr.
• 27:33
  Eric Fernandez: I know I'm biased and I'm passionate but like I'm hard pressed.
• 27:36
  Eric Fernandez: I'd be hard pressed for you to show me somebody, maybe a really young pediatric patient, you know, but like let's go like teenager above.
• 27:43
  Eric Fernandez: And that's just from a sizing standpoint.
• 27:44
  Eric Fernandez: There's no age limitations, technically speaking.
• 27:49
  Eric Fernandez: Who wouldn't benefit from daily use of the product?
• 27:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Okay, that was brilliant.
• 27:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That was gonna.
• 27:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I was gonna do a quick rapid fire.
• 27:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: One or two questions.
• 27:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: One was any limitations or people who shouldn't use this?
• 28:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You said really no age limitations.
• 28:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Is there anything else?
• 28:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Any contraindications?
• 28:04
  Eric Fernandez: Very few.
• 28:05
  Eric Fernandez: I mean we're very proud.
• 28:05
  Eric Fernandez: We've never had an adverse event to date, so very safe system.
• 28:09
  Eric Fernandez: Acute DVT is the most obvious one.
• 28:11
  Eric Fernandez: A blood clot, as we sort of talked about earlier, normatech is indicated to prevent dvts.
• 28:17
  Eric Fernandez: Yeah.
• 28:17
  Eric Fernandez: So it's really a question of do we active diagnosis, a clot that hasn't been cleared by a Doppler or whatever.
• 28:24
  Eric Fernandez: Somebody that has a history of at risk for.
• 28:26
  Eric Fernandez: That's not a contraindication.
• 28:28
  Eric Fernandez: That's somebody who's typically going to benefit significantly.
• 28:31
  Eric Fernandez: Severe or acute CHF is one to look out for and your PCP or per physician can tell you about it.
• 28:38
  Eric Fernandez: Again, chronic late stage general chf, not a concern.
• 28:43
  Eric Fernandez: It's really that acute, severe, that's about it.
• 28:46
  Eric Fernandez: There's really no limitations around pregnancy for example, so.
• 28:51
  Eric Fernandez: So yeah, I mean of course if you have any concerns, the disclaimer is always right.
• 28:55
  Eric Fernandez: Check with your medical provider.
• 28:56
  Eric Fernandez: But extremely safe system.
• 28:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah, not many devices can say that.
• 28:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That's really amazing.
• 29:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So a few more.
• 29:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Rapid fire compression versus massage gun.
• 29:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Which would you choose?
• 29:06
  Eric Fernandez: I mean look, if you have the budget, I think normatech wins every time.
• 29:11
  Eric Fernandez: It just has a greater whole body impact and it's something that's a lot harder to achieve using other interventions, modalities, treatments, etc.
• 29:22
  Eric Fernandez: That being said, you know, the Hypervolt Go3, our sort of lowest cost portable massage gun retails for $150.
• 29:30
  Eric Fernandez: It's got the power and performance the original $5,000 jackhammers had and you can take it anywhere.
• 29:36
  Eric Fernandez: You can fly with on a plane, you can use it in the car.
• 29:38
  Eric Fernandez: I mean that ease of use and consistent daily, you know, tissue hygiene is real too So I think it's about starting the journey right where it works for you.
• 29:46
  Eric Fernandez: And everyone's needs are so different, right?
• 29:48
  Eric Fernandez: I think that's the question.
• 29:49
  Eric Fernandez: There's not a single right or wrong.
• 29:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Awesome.
• 29:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And what would you say for you or for everyone listening?
• 29:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What would be one daily habit that you'd recommend to everyone to start tomorrow?
• 29:59
  Eric Fernandez: Well, that's a loaded question.
• 30:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I know, right?
• 30:03
  Eric Fernandez: Not look at my cell phone right when I wake up.
• 30:06
  Eric Fernandez: I mean, from a health and wellness standpoint, I guess from a Hyperice lens, I mean, mobility, movement is life, right?
• 30:14
  Eric Fernandez: That means something different to everybody.
• 30:16
  Eric Fernandez: But I think find a way to have more movement in your life.
• 30:20
  Eric Fernandez: Right.
• 30:21
  Eric Fernandez: And if a Hyperice product can help you with that by helping to alleviate pain or improving range of motion, help with swelling and some of these other things we've talked about, wonderful.
• 30:30
  Eric Fernandez: If it's just making a habit to go out for a walk after you eat and clear some glucose, Amazing, right?
• 30:36
  Eric Fernandez: Loop.
• 30:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Eric, we packed so much good information in today and I'm so excited.
• 30:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So obviously for those of you listening, if you are listening, we're going to put links to the website, Eric's website.
• 30:46
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm going to ask him in a moment where people can go to find more.
• 30:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But we've obviously talked about the normatech impression device.
• 30:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That's one of my favorites.
• 30:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But they have a myriad of other devices including the massage gland and other things.
• 30:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So go check it out, Eric, if you want to know more.
• 31:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Where can they find out more about HyperX?
• 31:03
  Eric Fernandez: I mean, the easiest place is hyperice.com h y p e r I c e dot com and I know you're going to post a link so we have that there.
• 31:11
  Eric Fernandez: You can find me on LinkedIn.
• 31:12
  Eric Fernandez: I'm not that exciting, but if you want to, you can certainly find me on, on LinkedIn.
• 31:15
  Eric Fernandez: You'll see my big old head right there.
• 31:17
  Eric Fernandez: So I'm pretty findable.
• 31:19
  Eric Fernandez: But please reach out and Dr. Jill, if anyone reaches out to you, please feel free to connect them.
• 31:23
  Eric Fernandez: I'm always happy to answer questions.
• 31:25
  Eric Fernandez: Our website has a chat feature.
• 31:27
  Eric Fernandez: We're all based here in the US we're all hyper employees.
• 31:30
  Eric Fernandez: We love what we do.
• 31:31
  Eric Fernandez: Everyone has the same passion, energy.
• 31:33
  Eric Fernandez: I do, maybe.
• 31:35
  Eric Fernandez: So please reach out if you have any questions.
• 31:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah, that's one of my favorite things about this interview is your passion for the products.
• 31:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Because whenever we love something and it works, I'm the same way.
• 31:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So thank you for your time.
• 31:44
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Thank you for your expertise and all of the many years you've been promoting and helping this company to grow.
• 31:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I know this will benefit people and I also know a lot of physicians watch this.
• 31:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So if you're a doc and want to get this in your clinic, get a hold of Eric please.
• 31:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Thanks so much Eric.
• 31:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Appreciate it.
• 32:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Hey guys, hope you enjoyed that episode on Hyperice devices, especially normatech compression boots.
• 32:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I found them to be incredibly useful and I knew I had to have Eric on the show to introduce you.
• 32:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you haven't already tried these devices, we're going to be offering them in our clinic to patients.
• 32:17
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So stay tuned.
• 32:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm super excited about that.
• 32:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: As you know, we have new episodes out every single week.
• 32:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you haven't yet liked or subscribed, hit that button.
• 32:26
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What are you waiting for?
• 32:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We know a lot of people listen and haven't yet subscribed, so I hope you'll join the nearly one subscribers on YouTube and hit that button.
• 32:34
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• 32:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And if you're on any other channel, just give us a review that helps us reach more people.
• 32:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Thanks again for joining me for this episode of Resiliency Radio and I'll see you again next week.