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BONUS EPISODE: How to Succeed as a Screenwriter with Thomas Dever · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
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Episode number one forty six. Success is not final, Failure is not
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fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. With Ston Churchill broadcasting
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from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on
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that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
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business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's
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your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof
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Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show
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is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script coverage services,
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Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are and the goals
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of the project you are, so we actually break it down by three categories,
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micro budget, indie film, market, and studio film. There's no
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reason to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your
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movie is gonna be done for one hundred thousand dollars and we wanted to focus
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on that. At Bulletproof script Coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel Studios,
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Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. So if you need
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your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay
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dot com. Well, guys, today on the show, we have Thomas
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Dever. Thomas is the head of writer success over at Coverfly, and he
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pretty much knows what's going on on the street. He's there talking to agents,
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managers, producers on a daily basis and helping screenwriters connect with them and
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showing them what they're looking for and so on. And Thomas and I had
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a fantastic conversation about where we are in the industry today, what screenwriters need
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to do in order to get their screenplay seen, and a lot of little
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tips and tricks on how to get your projects out into Hollyweird. So,
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without any further dude, please enjoy my conversation with Thomas Dever. I'd like
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to welcome the show Thomas Dever. How you doing Thomas, I am doing
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well. Thanks so much for having me. Oh Man, thanks for coming
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on the show. Man. You know, you and I have been working
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together in a in a way for a while now because you guys work you
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work with cover Fly, who works with me on bulletproof script coverage. And
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why this hasn't happened earlier, I have no idea. So I'm glad you're
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here now and we're going to talk all things about the business and how to
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you know, I hope that you have all the answers, Thomas, because
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the answers, because you know, there's a lot of screenwriters listening right now
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who want to know how to make it. And I was told, you
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know, so we're going to get into this no pressure. But how did
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you get started in the business? Oh? I mean, I feel like
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I've got the pretty usual story that I grew up in the Midwest and film
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industry was just this mythical thing way out on the West Coast, and pretty
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much as soon as I finished undergrad, packed up my stuff and moved out
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without really kind of any clue of what I was going to do or how
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it was going to work. Just like I think as soon as I realized,
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oh, people like actually do this for a living. These are actual
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like businesses and I can work at them. Just kind of that was all
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I wanted to do, you know, started internship to then reading with a
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production company that had first Look studio deal, so really fortunate to get.
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That was my crash course on development and coverage and everything that goes into a
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film before it gets made. And then from there I started working for a
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producer that was working on a Fox search Light film, So then that was
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my crash course on how a film actually gets made. And then after that,
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I think everybody was kind of telling me, you know, you really
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got to work at the agencies. The agencies is what you do, that's
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kind of the way that you get into it. I interviewed at two of
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them, I won't say which scared the hell out of me, Like genuinely
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the interview scared the hell of me. I remember walking out in my like
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nicest suit that I could find and telling the HR person like, yeah,
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I think you can take my name off the list. I don't think I
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can do this because I a little too thin skinned, a little too recent
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from the Midwest. So then yeah, so then I just kind of I
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think I used the verb mid twenties, my way around the industry for a
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little bit of producing some things, continuing to sort of work in freelance capacity,
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taught at a film school at one point before eventually finding my way to
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this, you know, this little world where we found each other, which
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you know, the competition and the coverage space, and truly I went into
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it thinking, you know, I remember the scripts that I would write coverage
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on at the production company with the studio deal, and like they weren't great.
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They really I remember thinking, being a professional screenwriter is very attainable based
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on these samples. And so when I went into the competition, I was
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expecting like Microsoft word documents and typos and incoherent stories. And I started reading
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for them and it was like, oh, this is this is really good
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and this one's really good and this writer is amazing, and these writers are
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every bit is talented. Like what what's like? My brain couldn't process it.
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And I think that's where it all sort of clicked to me of the
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like all at once, the sort of barriers to entry not necessarily being your
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skill set or your equality of your writing, or your dedication or your discipline,
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it's all of these other sort of things, you know, be it
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geographic or socioeconomic or you know, you know, these sort of cliches of
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who you know in the industry, and then I think the rest is history
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kind of. It's just really dedicating to this competition space and then ultimately the
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platform that became cover Fly and creating those opportunities and providing that level of access
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and insight and resources to the writers that you know weren't fortunate enough to just
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have that readily available. Well, what's so fascinating. And I think a
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lot of screenwriters don't understand this. They think that good writing and good screenplays
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are uni corns, where I mean, you've read thousands of scripts probably in
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your career. I've read a ton of scripts over the years, and I've
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read some stuff from really accomplished screenwriters, people who have published, like have
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produced screenplays, some of them even with some OSCAR nominations. I've read some
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of these scripts and they can't get them financed. They can't they can't get
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them in and then and it just like it's disheartening. I'm like, wait
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a minute, this thing is sitting on someone's shelf for the last ten years.
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It is amazing it's one of the best scripts I've ever written, and
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no one's financing this with talent attached, And I'm like, what is going
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on? Let alone the unknown scripts that I've read from screenwriters who are so
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talented, And I'm like, why are some? Why do some pop?
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And why do some don't? And it's I mean, I'd love to ask
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that question to you, like why do And it's a hard question, like
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why does one guy or one gal make it? Oh, get the opportunity
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the door opens for them, and the other one doesn't if their talent is
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at the same level, you know, as you know, give or take
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sure. Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a strange thing, right.
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I I love a good craft panel or a lecture and I loved like
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craft is undoubtedly more fun than the business. But the business considerations or what
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are deciding it because like, of course they are. You know that this
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is uh You've brought commerce into it and these are these are companies that are
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distributing projects. And that doesn't mean that they're all philistines that hate art.
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It just means that there's there are considerations and what happens here other than simply
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what is on the page. And I think that you can find a ton
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of examples of those of projects that were you know, not in demand and
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then you know, wait a few years and suddenly they they are. And
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your script that everyone was passing on is a lot with that, because the
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one thing I would say to your question is you can't like so much of
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it is out of your control, like so much of it is out of
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your control. I don't know anybody that can write fast enough to either anticipate
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or accommodate like the trends, which of course are going to be changing on
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a on a regular basis. And I also don't know if I've met a
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screenwriter that can pander, you know, that that can write something just because
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they think it's popular and not really have hard I recycled a cliche that like,
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look, if it wasn't fun for you to write, it's really not
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going to be fun for me to read, watch or watch or watch,
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right, And I think anybody can see through that. So really, I
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think our approach to it, you know, if you sort of consider whether
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your goal is getting staffed on a series or signing with representation or getting your
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project option or sold, like the less step of that is a decision maker
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reading it and responding to the material, and there's nothing that you can do
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to make that happen. Like, there's literally nothing that you can do.
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They're either going to like it or they're not. And so if you accept
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that, like the final stage of this you have zero control over it,
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sort of puts in perspective, put your energy towards the things that you can
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control, right, which is the material that you're putting out, the putting
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out the best possible version of it, network and creating those opportunities getting in
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front of those decision makers, I guess, to increase the odds of them
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responding to it, and increasing the odds of this scenario that you have no
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control over. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and
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now back to the show, because I would say the two most common things
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that I have seen in the sort of writers that quote unquote make it,
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which is maybe like a separate discussion of what making it means, but the
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two most common things that I've seen is one they just they work their ass
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off, like they truly just when when I meet the sort of most successful
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or busiest writers or highest level writers that I know, it's like, oh,
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hey, what have you been up to, And they're like, well,
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i just did a draft of this feature, and I'm doing a polish
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on this treatment, and I'm also going out with this other thing. And
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that's just in like the past couple of weeks, you know that it's just
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you have to crank out the material, and it is just it's really the
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discipline and the dedication to it. And then the other tree is just a
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clear focus, like a really clear kind of focus on what their strengths are,
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what their goals are, what they want to do, what they're good
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at, and this kind of on this knack for not ever getting knocked off
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of that that that not having a sort of like ten step plan that goes
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to hell if step two doesn't go as you thought it was going to that
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it's just like, yeah, I'm going to be a staff writer and oh
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this didn't pan out, so I'm gonna try this pathway and getting an opportunity
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that's not like a literal one to one of what they're trying to do,
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but seeing like, okay, here's the parts of this that can move me
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towards my goal. So that's what I'm going to get out of this opportunity.
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And and so that's the closest thing that I can sort of identify in
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terms of commonality. Yeah, and again that I love that you said that.
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What is the definition of success? And so many screenwriters think it's getting
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that million dollar spec script or two million dollar specscript or but you know,
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I always look at success now and this is maybe just because I'm I'm a
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bit older. Now, it's just like, can I make can I Can
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I make a living doing what I love to do? Can I keep the
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roof over my head, you know, food on the table, send my
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kids to school, you know, lived a comfortable life. I don't need
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millions. Can I just do what I love to do? And that's a
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that's a disconnect for a lot of screenwriters because they're sold so oftenly they're sold
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the lottery ticket. I always use the term lottery ticket mentality. They're sold,
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you know. And it goes back to Shane Black and Joe estra House
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back in the nineties when they were pulling in two three four million dollars.
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Uh A a picture or a script? Do you know the story? Do
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you know the do you know the story? I have to tell I haven't
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sell the story on the Shadow. I don't just to that, like what
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you're gonna say that like the industry that Blake Schneider describes and saved the cat
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where it's just kind of like I just popping off ideas. Oh yeah,
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yeah, yeah, Like that's the industry that I want to work in,
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because that's Oh god, that was it was seeing at the moment. No,
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it's great. There was a story I heard from from a friend of
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mine about how Shane Black and his last that movie, Last Action Hero,
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which is got the record four million. You got four million for that?
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He do you know that he sold that that script off of a cocktail napkin
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idea? It rings a bell. It sounds like I read this in a
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great Land article way back when it was I just heard this. I was
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at aff the other day and I was talking to somebody at the bar and
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I know that I know that, you know, I know it's a it's
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a reparable person I'm talking to. So they're like, this is how it
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happened. Apparently the agent of Shane said, hey, do you have an
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idea for a movie, And he's like, yeah, I'll have a great
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idea for a movie. He goes, write it on this cocktail napkin.
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He wrote the log line on the cocktail no script, log line on the
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on the cocktail napkin. And then that agent called every studio head in Hollywood
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and said, I've got Shane Black's next script on a cocktail napkin, and
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you need to come to my office and you can read it in my office.
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And wait a minute, he goes, you can't send anybody, it
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has to be you. So all the six or seven major studio heads all
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came down to the office read it, and there was a bidding war off
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of the log off of the cocktail napkin log line and ended up being four
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million for Last Action Hero, which then, of course did not do well
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and Shane Shane had a little rough time for the next decade until he came
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back. We got we got nice guys. Eventually, No, we know.
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What brought him back was kiss kiss Bank Bank. There we go.
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Sorry, kiss Kiss Bank Bank brought him back five years. But he was
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out. But he was out for about I think he was about fourteen years.
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Like he would like, he couldn't get arrested. He couldn't get arrested.
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It was seriously. But then he finally got kis kiss bank Bank made,
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and then that launched him back into you in the good graces. But
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that was and I used that story as a as an example of the insanity.
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Now, I think that was the height of the the being drunk.
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I think it was just being drunk on these specscript situations back then. Sure,
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yeah, I mean, well, uh, that story's uh, that
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story is way sexier, right, Oh god, it's super sexy if you're
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if you're sitting at home, because writing is such an isolating thing, right,
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it's literally you, you and the screen and the keyboard. It's it's
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so lonesome that I feel like it's more romantic to picture just coming up with
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this once in a generation idea and then the the millions of dollars based off
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of that. I think that's maybe a more enticing story to hear than just
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yeah, you just like you work your ass off every day and you take
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these sort of progressions, these progressive steps with with your career, and you
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sort of grind your way up to them. That's not sexy at all.
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That's not I don't want to hear that, Thomas. I want to hear
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the cocktail napping story, Thomas, I don't want to hear I have to
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work hard for this. Yeah, and that's I mean, that's the thing
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is it's uh and you know, even with the even with that, I
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feel like it's not like it's not like they pulled Shane Black's name out of
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a hat, right. No, no, no, he was he already
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exactly there lethal weapon ten to fifteen years before that of the of the grind
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to get to it. But no, absolutely, and I think that that
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is the I understand the allure of thinking like that, but but the truth
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is, or at least the more common thing that we're seeing is he is
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just it's a job like anything else, and it's difficult, but you know,
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And so I'll give you another another story that might illustrate what we're talking
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about. When Shane was passing around lethal weapon, every studio passed on lethal
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weapon, every studio passed on lethal weapon, it was a young from my
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understanding, was a young Chris Moore who was the OSCAR nominated producer of Goodwill
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Hunting and Project green Light, you did all that stuff. He read it
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and said this is great, and he forced it up the ladder and got
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someone to finally take a real look at it again and got it financed.
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But it was passed on. Everybody passed it because it was such an Buddy
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Cops were essentially the new The buddy cop really came in within forty eight hours,
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and that was only probably a couple of years prior to that, so
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it wasn't the thing yet and people passed on it. So it was just
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like you had a champion and then of course the talent was there and then
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everything else blew upon and yeah, and I think that that kind of goes
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back to it, right, which is when I was just saying a few
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minutes ago, though, like, hey, the last step of this you
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have no control over that was even a script is incredible as lethal weapon.
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It's getting two exacts that are just not responding to it, but you keep
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sending it out, You keep sending it out, you keep working on it
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until it finds the one and you just find that one champion and that's really
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kind of all you need sometimes, well, yeah, I mean find finding
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that champion and finding we all need champions. Everybody needs a champion. Spielberg
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had a champion, you know, Nolan to Shane, everybody all these guys
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have champions. You know, if it wasn't for Steven Soderberg, Nolan wouldn't
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have gotten I think was it's Omnia, which then of course got him Batman
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and then the rest of the SCE history. You know. So, but
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you need someone to just go hey, it's okay, but you got to
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keep grinding. And that's the thing that people, the screenwriters specifically don't understand,
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is the grind. It's it's the grinding day in, day out,
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do the work. I think the other thing is too and I always I
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always tell screenwriters this that if you if you have if you've been working on
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a screenplay for seven years, you're not a professional screenwriter anymore. You should
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you need to have ten At seven years, you shl have like five ten
19:44
screenplays. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back
19:52
to the show. Yeah, I mean even to like what you were saying
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earlier though, because I think that's one of the things that like we so
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cover fly with A We have a dedicated team of people and we offer free
20:03
consulting for screenwriters. And that's whether you're a professional screenwriter. That's hit a
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you know, hit a rut or you're just an emerging screenwriter, we'll you
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know, we'll consultant will help kind of come up with a focus and a
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plan moving forward. The first question I ask everybody is what's the dream?
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Like, genuinely, what's what is the dream? If I could start not
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like what you think you're supposed to be doing based on trends or what you
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think is realistically attainable given your circumstances, Like genuinely, if I could like
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sprinkle pixie dust or stat my fingers, what would you be doing? Because
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like, let's figure out a way to do that. You know that if
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your dream is to just make indie films that you write, direct, produce,
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that's an awesome dream. Let's figure out how to make that happen.
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You're probably not going to make that happen by cranking out pilots and trying to
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get staffed in a room because you think that that is like the more viable
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pathway, and you're going to do a lot of work and probably be unhappy.
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Right even with that, your goal is to write and direct your own
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and like, look, if you can find a way through that that,
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it's like, okay, I'll use this to ultimately get back to the goal
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do that, but it's you know, do do you know like what you
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were saying that like finding a way to be happy with it. And I
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think if your goal is to just self finance and make your own projects,
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like do it instead of living up to this like that the only measurement of
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success is selling studio specs or something. It's you know, that's that some
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person's dream, But that doesn't have to be yours, right, No,
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And I think that what you said was is so wonderful. It is being
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happy doing what you're doing. Because I mean, I always wanted my goal,
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my dream, if you were going to ask me that back when I
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was twenty two. I want to direct feature films. That's all I want
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to do. I want to direct feature films. But I jumped into post
22:00
production because I was a way to make a living, and I was very
22:03
grateful for that, but I was probably in there a lot longer than I
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should have, and I should have really fought a lot harder to get out
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of just doing editing or color grading or post supervising or the other stuff that
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I was doing to make a living, to the point where I got so
22:18
unhappy. I was bitter, I was angry. I was I always tell
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people the angry and bitter story, which anytime I speak, speak in front
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of all ARTI how many people here know an angry, bitter screenwriter? And
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then everyone raised their hands. I'm like, if you didn't raise your hand,
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you're the angry and bitter screenwriter. Everybody else knows so. But it's
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because you become angry and like that person is like, oh, I'm working
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in a I'm working in a writer's room. I've been pounding out these pilots.
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It's horrible. I'm on like this fourth or fifth level down a show
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somewhere, you know, in the middle of the country or whatever, and
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I hate doing what I'm doing. What I really want to do is well,
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you just said I want to I want to write, direct, produce
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in direct indie film, because that's that's the thing. I think that there's
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this h I don't know, there's this perception that gosh, we're getting like
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so philosophical here, and it's like, good, this perception and money is
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going to make you happy, Like genuinely, post people do pretty well.
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And if you were on top level projects, I'm sure I did I did.
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I did fine, I did, I kept I my my I was
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good for a long time. UH with post Post, I can't say anything
23:33
negative about it, but I wasn't happy doing it. Just as the same
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thing. If someone paid me a million dollars a year to uh to you
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know, push a broom around all day, the money would be great.
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But at a certain point you're just like, this is not what I want
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to do. This is not why I'm here now, And you start asking
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the question, well, why am I here? Am I here to make
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money? Am I here to be happy? Now we're really getting deep into
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phil because that's I mean, usually it's funny. Now we're going through like
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the progression. It's like we're deconstructing a cover flight consultation call. There's another
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question that I ask right like you and I were saying before we fired it
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up, like we're crazy, right, this is this is the sity industry.
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Is you know that I I admire the conviction that I had in my
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early twenties that I'm just like, oh, I'll pack all of my possessions
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and just driving to a state two thousand miles away. But like those you
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know, asking writers, it's I ask what what is the like what do
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you sort of see coming up in everything that you write? And not just
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like a format in a genre, but like genuinely like what themes? What
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like philosophical or stylistic consistencies? Like what are your projects like and what are
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they about? Followed up with like why is that? Because this is not
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something that you just think about or something that you're interested in. This is
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something that you are compelled to express in the form of feature screenplays and pilots
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and shorts and and usually if we're you know, talking with you, not
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just that you're doing it pretty well. So like where that's coming from?
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Somewhere there is coming from some sort of innate need on your part to express
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this. And and so I think that puts in full scope just how I
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don't know, just like how much passion is behind this, that that if
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you're trying to put it towards something that your heart isn't in, how much
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it is going to take out of you and why it is going to make
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you and just sort of suck your soul to the point that you were talking
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about, because this isn't I don't know, this isn't like a job that
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you can just like, Okay, I'm done. At the end of the
25:42
day. You're putting your whole heart and soul and your life into this.
25:47
Could you imagine if you could just check out? Could you imagine you just
25:49
can you clock out at five? And like, Okay, I don't.
25:52
I'm not a filmmaker anymore. I'm not a screenwrite anymore, to know,
25:55
Thank God, let me just care, let me just let me just get
25:57
a beer and drink and just chill and think about anything anymore. No,
26:00
it's I've called it a disease. It is a disease that you get bitten
26:06
by the bug and that bug, and once you're bitten by the bug,
26:10
it will never ever ever go away. It can go dormant for decades,
26:14
but eventually it will re surface in one way, shape or form. And
26:17
I do this because I've talked to sixty five year olds who are seven year
26:21
olds who's like, I'm retired now. What I really want to do is
26:23
direct and it happens. And there's really I don't even know what other industry
26:30
there is that that has that kind of insanity, you know, like,
26:34
look, I did the same thing you did. I did a little bit
26:36
later in life. I didn't do it in my mid twenties. It in
26:37
my early thirties where I packed up, moved cross country to California, new
26:42
two people, and this was my plan. My plan was I had to
26:48
rent an apartment in North Hollywood where one room would be where we slept and
26:53
the other room would be where I put up my editing system. And I
26:56
was just gonna show up. Now, mind you, I had, I
26:59
had a decade of stuff behind me before I showed up. But even then,
27:03
I just, for whatever reason, I started working and I started working.
27:07
I started working and it worked out, but it could have very easily
27:11
crash and burned. Oh yeah, I mean it's it's the same thing.
27:12
But I think that, like like you said, I mean, it sort
27:15
of goes back to the Hey, you have this like unwavering focus of what
27:18
you're going to do, and you don't have the sort of steps figured out,
27:21
but you're just really not going to be denied because yeah, because your
27:26
heart is in it to that point. And it is always fascinating, you
27:30
know, to find so many people that are really successful in other fields that
27:36
this is like a hobby for them, or this is something that they're pursuing
27:40
and this is you know, I but that's I don't know, that's what
27:42
kind of makes it. That's definitely what makes it so cool. You know,
27:47
I think of all the I mean, I tell people all the time,
27:49
I think I've just got like one of the greatest jobs that I of
27:53
all the ways that you could kind of get up and earn a living and
27:56
pay your bills. I get to get up every day and with an entire
28:02
company full of people do something that we like, genuinely truly care about,
28:07
and get to be with people that love the same things I love. And
28:11
that's that's what's so fun about stuff like this, you know that you were
28:15
saying, you know, getting together at Austin Film Festival, we just we
28:18
kind of find one another. You know, there's this this this little like
28:22
family that seems to emerge around the screenwriting community. Yeah. Absolutely, and
28:27
uh, without question this when when I started helping people with my podcasts and
28:33
with my websites and things like that, my life changed. And I think
28:37
I'm blessed just like you. I get to do what I love to do
28:40
on a daily basis, and uh, while I pursue my own projects and
28:44
I pursue my own you know, books and stories and other things and things
28:47
that I like to do. Now, one thing that a lot of screenwriters
28:51
don't really get is the absolute necessity of networking and being able to make those
28:59
connecttions but make them in a very organic way, is opposed to hey man,
29:08
I hear you're a producer, here's my script. Yep. Yeah,
29:11
like I just met you, like you you know, it's like it's ridiculous.
29:18
Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a I don't want to
29:22
generalize writers, and I'll say this that I used to be the exact same
29:26
way. I think that there's it's not that networking just makes a lot of
29:30
people uncomfortable, because let's let's just call networking what it is, which is
29:36
talking to strangers. It's you know, it's it is starting a conversation with
29:41
a stranger and and putting pressure on yourself to build a connection and a short
29:45
amount of time. And as a person that like my undergrad degree is in
29:48
English, I sat in the back. I spent most of college just reading,
29:52
you know, so I believe, like yes, going and talking to
29:56
people that I didn't know was like my worst spirit at some point in time,
30:00
so I think that there's a reluctance to do it, and that's what
30:03
kind of fosters this idea of like, oh, it's just you just have
30:07
to know this person and they just give these jobs to their friends and things
30:10
like that, when it's like, like there's certainly a degree of that in
30:12
the industry, but there's like to put in perspective that if you're an exec
30:18
or a producer or a showrunner or someone around those people, you're going to
30:22
get a stack of like two hundred scripts for one spot maybe and they're all
30:29
going to be good. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
30:37
and now back to the show. Yes, it's very common that you
30:42
break the tie, so to speak, with the opinion of a person that
30:45
you trust, or a person that you know, or a person that you
30:48
like or a person that you just you know is not going to let you
30:52
down in that situation. So take that for whatever it's worth in the scope
30:56
of networking. But to what you were saying, Yes, for some reason,
31:00
the like sentiment around networking seems to be just pitching any stranger that like
31:07
returns eye contact with you, And I feel like there is you've all been
31:17
at a networking event, regardless of how big it is, where there's just
31:19
a person there that's just kind of on like a loop of just like they
31:26
give their project and their spiel to this person, and then they give their
31:29
project and their spiel to this person, and it's like, I think,
31:32
surely someone listening to this right now is like like they're feeling this like chills
31:37
down there. They're cringing, cringing. Yes, you know what it is
31:40
like to be on the other side of that. So like, yeah,
31:42
don't don't be that person. To me, I always say, go in
31:48
with questions, go in with learn about who this person is, what they
31:53
do, what's important to them, what they're working on right now, do
31:59
they have any problems that you can solve, Do they have any projects that
32:01
you can help on, And like trust that if they're working on something where
32:08
there is a world for you to collaborate, it's going to come up by
32:12
asking those questions that if you're you have this amazing horror feature spec and you
32:19
start, hey, so what do you do, what sort of projects do
32:22
you work on, what types of movies do you like, what types of
32:23
materials do you respond to? And they start saying, God, I just
32:27
love horror films, and we've got to finance here, and we're trying to
32:29
find something like this that fits your project. That is such a better way
32:32
to bring up your material and mention it to them versus going in and just
32:37
being like, I've got a horror feature. This is what it's about,
32:39
and you should read it. And here's that. And it's like, I
32:43
work in TV. Why are you yelling at me? You know? Or
32:46
also a screenwriter. I don't know what you want me to do. And
32:51
I was like walking It's like walking off to the Jason Blum and going,
32:52
hey, I've got this dog safe Christmas script. That's I think you'll be
32:58
perfect for it, Jason. And and the funny thing is I this is
33:01
always infuriating. I get cold emails about pitching projects to me. I have
33:10
no power. I can't finance your script. I'm not looking for projects to
33:16
produce. All you got to do is listen to three or four of my
33:20
podcasts or just read a couple articles and you'll understand who I am. And
33:23
people are just so desperate that they just just start throwing things out and and
33:28
it just gets deleted automatically. But you start like emailing, you know,
33:31
you get an IMDb pro account, you just start emailing people you script.
33:36
That is not the way to do it. The shotgun approach doesn't work.
33:38
You've got to be more surgical. Well yeah, and that's that. I
33:42
mean, we take the same approach because we do consult. I mean,
33:44
the thing is like, am I going to pretend that queries have a high
33:46
rate of success? No, they do not. However, we've worked with
33:52
writers that have one hundred percent found success with queries. Because I think that
33:55
there's a there's a good way to do it. And so if you you
33:59
know, so much of what we do is like one, be really concise
34:04
and articulate. Get get through who you are while you're emailing them and what
34:07
the ask is as quickly as possible. Because if you're emailing a person that
34:12
works in the entertainment industry, there's a good chance that they have like two
34:15
hundred emails in their inboks, and if they open it up and it is
34:20
five paragraphs of boiler plate, like even if you are a dead center bullseye
34:24
of what they're looking for right now, they just don't have time to do
34:28
that and they're going to delete it and to like what you were saying with
34:31
it. It's always like here's who I am, Here's what I do,
34:35
here's where I'm like emailing you. I love it if you know, if
34:37
it's a fit, I'd love for you to take a look at my script.
34:39
If not, no worries, knowing that most people are not going to
34:44
respond, But you might have a person that is looking exactly for that,
34:46
and you're respectful and got to the point and they're like, yeah, sure,
34:50
send the script. At this point they've requested your material versus it's the
34:54
equivalent of like put again, put yourself in their shoes and use common sense
34:59
of like catching the script in the initial email. How would you feel if
35:02
a person walked up to you on the street and was like, hey,
35:06
I heard that you can help me spend two hours reading this script and giving
35:10
me your thoughts on it. Your your response one hundred percent would be it's
35:15
awfully presumptuous to you to just assume that I'm going to do this, and
35:22
yet that that's kind of the common practice of queries, right right, it's
35:25
it's it's a fairly insane It's insanity, man, it really is. And
35:31
and so I also wanted to ask you this because I actually had this question
35:36
from a screenwriter the other day. Should a screenwriter sign a submission release form
35:42
if they're submitting to a producer or a company or something like that, they're
35:49
The thing is like, they're they're common practice. You know that they're they're
35:52
commonplace. So don't think that you're signing your life away. You know,
35:58
I guess read it and make sure you're not signing your life away. But
36:00
I am guessing that somewhere in all of them, there's going to be a
36:02
cause that it's like, look, if you a year or two, five
36:06
years from now, see that we have a project that looks really similar to
36:09
something that you submitted to us, like, you can't sue us. And
36:14
the reason that's the case is because you can imagine what companies would be opening
36:17
themselves up to if they didn't do that that if you you know, they're
36:22
already I think getting sued all the time for people trying to claim that.
36:27
But if every script that was submitted to them, that any line or story
36:30
or beat or commonality that like appeared in a project that was later produced,
36:35
that's why they're doing it. At the same time, I I don't think
36:42
that you have any problem in signing it. I think that there's no I
36:46
don't know anybody that isn't looking for an amazing script and if they read your
36:52
script and love it and really respond to it, they'll work with you.
36:55
Because I think that there's a perception among writers or a fear that oh,
37:00
they're going to read it and like my idea and steal it. And it's
37:04
just like, I don't know, I don't know if I've really seen that.
37:07
I don't really know why they why they necessarily would do that. But
37:10
at the same time, I totally get where the fear is coming from.
37:15
Yeah, I mean I've had heard of some people's ideas getting stolen or and
37:21
when I say stolen, it's more like, you know, they took a
37:22
couple of kernels and sure, all of a sudden, now they have something
37:27
new. I mean, I remember when we were the years ago, when
37:30
I had a script floating around that got to Sony and I said, they
37:36
asked for it because they'd seen one of my one of my films, and
37:39
I said, I submitted it to them, and they're like, oh,
37:42
we're going to pass because we have something similar in theme, and then two
37:46
years later that movie came out which was not not anything like not anything like
37:52
my script at all, but there were ideas and themes there. So you
37:58
have to protect yourself as I guess what you should one hundred percent protect yourself.
38:02
You should. It's one of the biggest things that I think is valuable
38:06
about a platform like cover fly, because you you know, we have the
38:09
writer platform where you can host your projects and your bio, and then we
38:13
have an industry facing portion of it where they can search for writers and projects.
38:19
But we really closely monitor the activity on that side of it, and
38:22
so if somebody downloads your script, we have a timestamp of when they downloaded
38:27
it. And this isn't necessarily a commercial for the data protection that is cover
38:30
Fly. It's it's to drive home the point that like, yes, you
38:35
should be precious with your material and and I think with a submission release form,
38:40
passing it along through a friend or having them request it is always going
38:45
to be the better option. So I would advise that with it, I
38:49
will say by no means am I an attorney, and you should always check
38:53
with an attorney. Absolutely likely taking my advice. The consensus is you can
39:00
cannot copyright an idea, only the execution of an idea, because I do
39:05
think that like most screenwriters I know have had like an idea that they were
39:10
super excited about and then they see like a trailer they read in the trades
39:15
an idea that it's really similar. And I'm not going to pretend that that
39:19
doesn't just like it happens all all the time. Are you kidding me?
39:25
When I saw when I saw Clerks by Kevin Smith, I was working in
39:30
a video store, I'm like, son of a bitch, what did I
39:34
got? I had this idea? Why didn't I just execute it? Well?
39:37
There you no, truly, and so I'm I get it. I
39:42
feel the pain of writers in that situation. What I will say, though,
39:45
is that I don't want to say that ideas are cheap. We'll be
39:50
right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show.
39:59
But good ideas are good. Ideas are easier to come by than the execution
40:04
of good ideas. Truly, I think most screenwriters I know come up with
40:08
like five blockbusters in the shower and on their way to work in the morning.
40:13
You know, it's just like you're coming up with these ideas, and
40:15
really the tough part isn't executing it, so as tough as that can be,
40:21
it sort of goes back to what we were saying earlier of like you
40:22
got to be cranking out material, because man, if you're just kind of
40:27
hinging all your hopes on one project, you are kind of opening yourself up
40:30
to that, right, You are sort of opening yourself up to like,
40:35
oh, I have to make this one thing go versus like really utilizing your
40:39
talents to give yourself multiple opportunities. Yeah, And I wanted to ask you
40:45
as well and kind of put this to rest for so many screenwriters out there,
40:50
this is my opinion. I'd love to hear yours. I get asked
40:52
all the time, how do you protect your screenplay? I go, you
40:55
register it with the Library of Congress. That's the only one that matters.
41:01
You could do it with the WGA, that's nice, but the WJA does
41:05
not hold up in court. The Library of Congress. That's the only one
41:08
that you have the boom and it's that and you can and again, you
41:13
can't do the idea, but you can do the actual screenplay. It's the
41:15
only way I know of and that I always recommend what about you sure,
41:21
I mean, and that's I mean, that's you're probably gonna do that,
41:27
right if your film is moving into any sort of production, right because at
41:30
some point, unless you're just kind of shooting the project yourself, somebody else
41:34
is going to need to own the script and they're going to help there.
41:38
Yeah, once it gets into production, that's a you have to have that.
41:42
That's part of the chain of title. But prior to that, while
41:45
you're pitching and things like that, to make you feel better as a screenwriter,
41:50
you want to have the production spend thirty five bucks, forty bucks,
41:52
get a covered and don't mail it to yourself. That doesn't work. That's
41:55
that's a myth. Don't mail it yourself because that's the thing. I think
41:59
that, like what you said there is it's making yourself feel better and giving
42:01
yourself the peace of mind to know that you have protected this version of this
42:06
story. Otherwise, I think it's always good to have a paper trail,
42:09
right, And because I know that getting getting an attorney can be prohibitively expensive
42:15
for a lot of emerging screenwriters. Why it's just it's kind of like cover
42:20
your basis to as much as is necessary for it. You know, if
42:23
you're in the sort of like talking stages of a project and there's no real
42:27
money on the table, you probably don't need a fifteen page contract, right
42:30
to like to find terms of what you know. But I think always just
42:36
be really clear. And I think this goes into a lot of what we've
42:38
been saying, whether it's like working with a producer with a collaborator, especially
42:43
when you sign with representation, because that's a whole separate discussion we get with
42:47
writers is just be really clear about being on the same page of expectations,
42:55
because I think that that's where a lot of problems come from, right which
42:59
is with I think a lot of writers with producers are being afraid of getting
43:04
taken advantage of, or afraid of their material being mishandled. Which is why
43:08
you know, before you embark on a working relationship established, if the expectation
43:14
is like, Okay, we want to, we want you to, we
43:15
want to develop this with you, does that mean one draft and a polish
43:20
or does that mean like infinite read writes until I'm happy with it over some
43:24
nonspecific period of time. Because if you think one thing and they think another,
43:29
the project's kind of doomed before it even gets started. And same applies
43:32
to working with a manager or an agent, which brings me to my next
43:37
question, the agent and manager conundrum, where there's so many screenwriters think that
43:44
all you need is Ari Gold from Entourage and if they represent you, they're
43:51
going to get you the million dollars, they're going to get your career in
43:52
a skull. And people are like, how can I get an agent?
43:54
How can I get a manager? I'm like, and I always ask them,
43:58
how many scripts do you have? I have won and a couple of
44:00
ideas. I'm like, you're not ready for an agent. And I've known
44:06
writers who've won the Nichols, who placed in the Nickels, who've placed in
44:10
multiple big and they get signed and they go nowhere because the management is like,
44:17
should I push Shane Black or should I pull should I push Bob who
44:25
I just signed? Talented? But what's gonna be how am I gonna make
44:29
what am I gonna make the most money from? Where's my money? Where's
44:31
my R O Y and R O D? You know going to make the
44:35
most sense? So can you please kind of demystify the whole agent manager thing?
44:38
For people. It is undoubtedly the most popular question that we get and
44:49
I don't. I actually don't know what's even a close second. It is
44:52
always how do I get a manager? Right? That is the that is
44:55
the the holy grail of emerging screenwriters. And I get it right because I
45:00
think that the perception is I think you're sort of feeling that for a stration
45:06
of being on the outside looking in the lack of access, the lack of
45:08
opportunity, and like, yes, a manager and agent can solve that.
45:13
But if there is this perception that like, Okay, great, I signed
45:16
with the manager, I cracked my knuckles, I put my feet up,
45:19
and I just wait for the deals to roll in, that's definitely like not
45:23
the case. Right. Like it is, you're going to be facing a
45:28
lot of the sort of same struggles, and even the writers that we do
45:30
know with representation are still having to grind and get to that next step.
45:36
I can't remember. I can't remember who said this to me, because I
45:39
would give credit if I could recall. But I think we made the comparison
45:43
of like you view getting a manager like having an accountant, Like does your
45:50
career you have money? Does your career necessitate having a manager right now,
45:55
and in the same way that it's like, if you've just got like your
45:59
ten nine and your W twos, you can probably file your own taxes right,
46:02
and you can, you can get your own opportunities and develop your material
46:07
and build that. But if your career gets to a point where you need
46:09
a REP, it's just a much clearer kind of pathway right and getting to
46:15
a point where you need a manager and need an agent. And that's not
46:17
to say that people don't sign with representation very earlier in their very early in
46:22
their career, but it's usually much more common that you've built top a degree
46:25
of sort of like momentum and opportunity, and the managers not just kind of
46:30
picking somebody starting somebody from scratch, because I think with you know, a
46:36
couple of things one think about it from the perspective of the manager. To
46:43
go back to the queries, We've seen a lot of writers that approach reps
46:45
and the consensus is, hey, you should sign me as a client because
46:50
I really want a manager. And it's like that doesn't like, what does
46:53
that do? I mean? I think to them, right like, look,
46:58
this is their job, this is their livelihood, that yes, it
47:00
is art and it's passion and it's emotion, and it's this thing that they
47:05
deeply care about. But this is also their livelihood. This is how they
47:07
pay their bills, and their job is to assemble a roster of clients and
47:12
projects that are going to make money that they collect a commission on. So
47:16
it might not be the sole determinant in their decision, but it's going to
47:21
be a portion of it. So if you you know, if you understand
47:25
that, yes, they need to respond to the material, but also have
47:30
this idea of where your career is going to look right and sort of have
47:32
these opportunities and what working together is going to look like. Getting to the
47:37
part that you're a working writer in that conversation because the other I think it
47:44
goes back to the sense of indie filmmaking, which I special place in my
47:50
heart. My heart is always in indie filmmaking and will be in indie features.
47:55
The economics of it don't always make sense to have a rep. Because
48:00
if I'm a rep and I get ten percent of your projects and your deals,
48:05
and you make a low budget feature, let's just even say grand,
48:09
yeah, one hundred grand, right, and so you if you're making any
48:12
money as the writer director, you know, it's let's say you get fifteen
48:17
grand, right, which is now there's no way that you take fifteen percent
48:21
of the budget. Let's say that you get five grand, and you're probably
48:27
working on that project for like at least a year. That means that their
48:30
commission is five hundred dollars for one year. That even if they love you,
48:37
love the project, care about the material, it just it's really tough
48:40
to dedicate any jobs anything right to five hundred dollars over twelve months, versus
48:47
something that's going to yield that. But I don't I don't want to taint
48:50
the perception because I really I think so much about it too. Is just
48:54
finding that right fit, is finding the person that gets you, gets your
48:59
material, gets this sort of vision for your career, and you can work
49:01
with and building that relationship. At the same time, don't underestimate your own
49:09
ability to generate those opportunities. We come across writers all the time that have
49:15
gotten their projects sold, that have gotten themselves staff done, series that have
49:21
episode credits, that are getting sort of meetings with major studios and streamers,
49:24
and there's no really one way to do it. It's just a lot of
49:28
networking and leveraging relationships and sharing their material and maximizing those relationships that getting themselves
49:36
to that point. The discussion of pursuing representation becomes so much easier, right
49:39
because if you're you're kind of painting this picture of like, hey, here's
49:44
what my career is going to look like, it's much easier when it's tangible
49:46
and you're working in a writer's room versus just off of like the samples.
49:52
If that makes sense, Yeah, it does make sense, and I want
49:58
to ask you as well. So many screenwriters will walk into a room,
50:02
you know, like let's say, let's say perfect scenarios. They get a
50:06
manager. Manager gets them a meeting at a studio because they had one sample
50:10
script that they loved, and they're like, I like this guy's voice or
50:15
I like this guy's voice. Let's get them. Let's get them in and
50:16
let's have a meet. They come in, they're like, okay, what
50:20
do we love this script? We can't produce this, this is it's unproducible.
50:23
What else do you have? So that's the moment where a lot of
50:28
deer in headlines because they're like, wait a minute, that took me three
50:30
years to do and I don't have any I have three ideas. And if
50:36
you have three ideas, you're pretty much dead in the water because everybody has
50:38
ideas. Everybody in that room has ideas. But you can't produce an idea.
50:42
You got to produce a script. So how many scripts, in your
50:45
opinion, is a good number projects that you should walk into with a meeting
50:51
like that, like real, like real real things will be right back after
50:55
a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. Yeah, I
51:04
mean it's I guess, uh. Two answers to that, Like one,
51:09
the idea thing is interesting, I guess I won't say. But one of
51:13
the more prestigious writing and directing fellowships. I've spoken to writers that have been
51:16
through it, where the first couple of weeks is literally no writing, no
51:21
development, just ideas, and they make you come up with a bunch of
51:24
ideas and then they throw them out and make you come off with new ideas.
51:28
And speaking to the writers that have been through that program, they say
51:32
that is the most difficult part, more so than notes and writing and rewriting,
51:37
because you're just you're you're getting down to like the marrow of who am
51:40
I as a creator? Like what is my twenty fifth idea? Or is
51:45
my twenty fifth new fresh idea? But I think that puts in perspective of
51:52
just like the standard that you have to sort of hold yourself to as well
51:54
as like I think after a certain point you get good at generating those ideas
52:00
knowing it to your question with a you know, the two parts of it,
52:05
I would say the samples. I think most people really want to see
52:10
what you can do and whether that is it. I would say at least
52:14
too maybe you know, if you've got like fifteen, it's sort of like,
52:17
oh man, this person just kind of like how like polished or any
52:22
of these even if they are polished, the perception of seeing fifteen I think
52:27
so at least to probably like three or four. But really the more important
52:30
thing is having a consistency and like what your voice, what your talent is,
52:35
what your perspective is, and showing how it applies consistently but in different
52:38
means. You know, there is no shortage in the world, but especially
52:44
in Southern California, of people that can write just a really excellent, tight
52:50
feature or one hour half hour pilot like that is not hard to come by.
52:53
So if you're going in with like, oh, I can write a
52:57
feature, you're kind of short changing, you know, right right in the
53:00
horror future writer, like, great, you're the one we've been waiting for.
53:05
You Bob or Bob Bob really has no clue. But like, truly
53:14
as sentimental as it sounds, like, what no one else, literally no
53:16
one else in the world has is how you tell this story. Your perspective,
53:22
your experience is what you are bringing to the page. And as much
53:27
as you can articulate that as well as display that on the page, whether
53:30
that's across four samples there two, whether it's across a you know, one
53:34
hour procedural and a thriller feature. I think that's kind of the key to
53:37
it. And then within that meeting, Yeah, that's every general ever,
53:43
right, which is we love this is the greatest thing ever, but it's
53:45
not what we're making right now. So let's spend the next like fifty nine
53:49
minutes figuring out what to talk about here. And I think it goes back
53:53
to what I was saying about networking, right, which is, if you
53:59
don't take the effort to understand and you should have done you know, hopefully
54:04
you've done some research before the meeting, But if you don't make an effort
54:06
to understand what is it that they're working on right now, what is it
54:10
that they're developing, what is it that they're maybe struggling with or really looking
54:15
for or excited about, and what do I have that fits that? I
54:19
think that's again, it's a much easier discussion to have because you know what
54:23
you have in your arsenal. And if they happen to be looking for this
54:30
high concept project that you've only kind of fleshed out a little bit and maybe
54:34
only have a treatment for, you can get to that by asking those questions.
54:38
Whereas if you just fired off, oh, I've got like a comedy
54:42
feature sample in this one hour, you're now like zero for three with them,
54:45
Whereas you have this idea that they wanted to develop with you, if
54:49
you could have just sort of like worked to that in the conversation, and
54:52
that's kind of typically the advice we give for generals and things like that.
54:57
Yes, the water bottle tour, if you're lucky enough to go on the
55:00
water bottle to her, that's good. Zoom to her now right, Yeah,
55:02
now it's a zoom to our way. Now it's a zoom to you
55:07
bring your own bottle? Uh with you. Now I'm gonna ask a few
55:14
questions, ask all my guests. Uh, what is the lesson that took
55:16
you the longest to learn? Whether in the film industry or in life?
55:20
Oh, my goodness, we're really it's tom. I guess I'll give both.
55:30
I think I think in the film industry, it's just it's kind of
55:35
seeing it for what it is. And I mean that in the best sense,
55:37
right, It's like it's an industry industry, right, you know?
55:42
And and I think that any time that you are asking people to in you,
55:49
to give you money, and in some cases a lot of money to
55:53
make your project or to write a project, you do have to understand that
55:58
there's a degree of business that goes into it. To recycle all my metaphors,
56:02
I say, you know, Nike doesn't just like design a shoe and
56:07
then put it on the shelves and hope that people buy it. There's there's
56:10
an entire presentation of why Nikes are cool and why you should buy them,
56:16
and why they're better than other shoes, and that's why you sell them and
56:21
like to a sense, that's what you have to do as a screenwriter,
56:23
and there's no substitute for excellent writing, and the writing always comes first.
56:28
But I think the tough lesson is like understanding the business circumstances that go into
56:35
most decisions, but accepting that that's okay, that is something that you can
56:42
use to your advantage, and that doesn't mean that you have to I don't
56:45
know, rue that it's all about the money and that you can navigate it
56:51
and and understand that to your advantage in life. I think, like you
56:57
and I were talking before we started, I just think like getting getting a
57:00
little older, you like calm down a little bit. I think is kind
57:05
of trust that, like, look, things are going to be okay.
57:07
I've had enough sort of like one year, five year, ten year plans
57:13
that just kind of like go out the window, perhaps none more spectacularly than
57:17
in March of twenty twenty, when I, you know, have spent the
57:22
past year and a half in counting at home. And I think that's really
57:25
kind of informed the philosophy that we impart to writers, which is like just
57:29
remember what's important, remember what the ultimate goal is. Don't make it harder
57:32
on yourself by like defining the steps along the way as well as saying that
57:37
you have to do it. There's no timeline on this. You know,
57:40
there's tons of people that break in in their early twenties and their mid thirties
57:45
or later. You know, just just have focused on what you're going to
57:49
do and try and take steps towards. That's That's the best I've gott in
57:53
terms of a life philosophy. Fair enough, fair enough, fair enough?
57:58
What are three screenplays every screen writer should read? I'm going to go back
58:06
to. I'm thinking of my Uh, I'm thinking of when in my reader
58:12
days, when I was reading at reading at Kevin Mescher's company. It had
58:20
already come out, But I think that the screenplay for Little Missed Sunshine is
58:24
just brilliant. It's like it's a it's a novel. I don't know if
58:31
we can retroactively give it like a Pulitzer or something. No it is,
58:36
it is. It is a brilliant It is a brilliant script and a brilliant
58:38
film. Yeah, brilliant. And it's UH to just to just sort of
58:43
have this really this like dark, quirky comedy that is this also deep exploration
58:49
of Pristian philosophy that is like readily apparent on the first page and then perfectly
58:54
executed for the rest of the script. That was the first one that came
58:58
to mind. I remember reading the script. This probably dates me, but
59:04
I remember reading the script for Crazy Stupid Love acript also and a great script
59:12
that when I read it, and I forget what draft I read, was
59:16
like near identical to the film that they ended up producing, like down down
59:22
to the like lines of down down to like specific words of just sort of
59:29
I say that one not necessarily for like a philosophical or thematic of just like
59:32
this is what a produced screenplay looks like. This is a read the screenplay
59:37
before I saw the film, and then I saw the film and it was
59:39
like, oh, that's like verbatim that these guys just like got it up
59:43
onto the screen man. Then the last one, I feel like I should
59:50
give a shout out to a cover fly writer. No, I mean this
59:53
is three of all times, so you don't have to feel all time,
59:55
so they're not they're not whole. I mean, we'll be right back after
1:00:01
a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. I guess
1:00:12
that's problem now, I don't know how much it's changed, but again from
1:00:15
my like the last Duel, which is finally coming out, I say,
1:00:20
that's a sort of put in perspective, like there was some major talent attached
1:00:24
to it when I read that script ten years ago and it is just coming
1:00:30
out now, and I think it had kind of made the rounds then,
1:00:35
just in the sense of, like I say that one to maybe just be
1:00:37
cheesy, and that it can sometimes it is like some really a list people
1:00:45
were on that script, and it still took ten years, you know,
1:00:49
to just right. You know, I'm so pumped to see it because it
1:00:52
was amazing and the fact that I think that's a testament to reading hundreds,
1:00:57
if not thousands of screenplays since then, that I still I still remember it,
1:01:01
and I don't know, I just gave myself goosebumps with it because there's
1:01:07
there's a there's what we love about it, right that it's just all about
1:01:09
building that connection with the with the material that that it does stick with you
1:01:15
years and years after the fact. Thomas, it's been a pleasure talking to
1:01:19
you, man. I know we can continue talking for three hours more,
1:01:22
but I truly appreciate I know you have a young one that you're taking care
1:01:27
of, so and you're probably exhausted, and you're probably exhausted. I've got
1:01:31
a I have a two month old daughter, and so I've noticed that I
1:01:36
just kind of start a sentence now and it just I forget, I forget
1:01:39
how I started it, and I just kind of go and till every run
1:01:42
out of steam. So hopefully your listeners and your viewers that this made,
1:01:46
that this made sense and bearing with me, No, I by all means,
1:01:52
I think before we run out of time, head over to cover fly.
1:01:55
Yes, get the account set up. You know, that's always kind
1:02:00
of the first step, regardless of where you're at in your writing career,
1:02:02
what you're looking to do, just by creating the profile completely free to do
1:02:07
so, we can find you and direct you to the resources that are that
1:02:10
are most useful to what you're looking to do and and our team will be
1:02:15
able to support. And one of those resources, of course, is is
1:02:19
the coverage service that we were talking about beforehand, bullproscript Coverage. Yeah.
1:02:22
So I sure, I truly, I truly appreciate you, brother, thank
1:02:27
you for doing all the good work you're doing with screenwriters out there and helping
1:02:30
them navigate this shark infested, you know, alligator snapping kind of world that
1:02:37
it is, unfortunately, but I do truly appreciate you man. Thank you
1:02:40
again, my pleasure well to thank Thomas so much for coming on the show
1:02:45
and dropping his knowledge bombs on the tribe today. Thank you so much,
1:02:49
Thomas. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this
1:02:51
episode, head over to the show notes at bulletprooh Screenwriting dot tv, ford
1:02:55
Slash one for six, and if you haven't already, please head over to
1:03:00
Screenwriting podcast dot com. Subscribe and leave a good review for the show.
1:03:06
It really helps us out a lot. Thank you again for listening guys,
1:03:08
as always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
1:03:14
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.