Latest / Stories That Live In Us / Georgia: Two Lives, Two Coasts, One Massive Secret (with Julie Merrill) | Episode 115

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Georgia: Two Lives, Two Coasts, One Massive Secret (with Julie Merrill) | Episode 115 · Stories That Live In Us

• 0:00
  Crista Cowan: But he's not so callous that he forgets his family.
• 0:02
  Crista Cowan: That's because he names his children after his siblings.
• 0:07
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 0:07
  Julie Merrill: But and then he takes his mom Anneliza, Elizabeth is one of the name ni middle names of one of the kids.
• 0:13
  Julie Merrill: And so his whole family, whether he's trying to honor them or he doesn't think he can escape his past, I don't know.
• 0:20
  Julie Merrill: And I don't know what he told his wife.
• 0:22
  Julie Merrill: I mean, what would she tell your wife?
• 0:24
  Julie Merrill: So my name, Julene Patria, my dad always told me it's from his first girlfriend.
• 0:29
  Julie Merrill: I mean, I don't know how my mom ever accepted that.
• 0:32
  Julie Merrill: But so you never know what that guilt was doing to him and what was going on back home was also tragic.
• 0:42
  Crista Cowan: Stories That Live in Us is a podcast that inspires you to form deep connections with your family, past, present, and future.
• 0:50
  Crista Cowan: I'm Crista Cowan, known online as The Barefoot Genealogist.
• 0:54
  Crista Cowan: Counting down to the upcoming celebration of America's 250th birthday, you'll meet families from each state whose stories are woven into the very fabric of America.
• 1:05
  Crista Cowan: Tales of immigration, migration, courage, and community that remind us that when we tell our stories, we strengthen the bonds that connect us.
• 1:13
  Crista Cowan: So join me for season two as we discover From Sea to Shining Sea the stories that live in us.
• 1:20
  Crista Cowan: As a professional genealogist, I get to see a lot of family trees.
• 1:26
  Crista Cowan: And so do a lot of my colleagues.
• 1:28
  Crista Cowan: My guest today is Julie Merrill, and she works with Ancestry Pro Genealogists, and she has spoken at Roots Tech, and I've known her for years.
• 1:39
  Crista Cowan: But when we started putting out a call for stories from different states, she came to us and she said, I have a story for the state of Washington.
• 1:49
  Crista Cowan: And we thought, fantastic, can you share it with us and we'll let you know?
• 1:53
  Crista Cowan: And she shared the story with us, and we realized Washington wasn't in the story at all.
• 1:59
  Crista Cowan: So we went back to her and we said, Where's Washington?
• 2:02
  Crista Cowan: And she said, Oh, well, my client is from Washington.
• 2:05
  Crista Cowan: We had a little chuckle over that, but I realized that that happens a lot.
• 2:11
  Crista Cowan: That families don't always end up where they started.
• 2:15
  Crista Cowan: And the way that we put together those family trees sometimes takes us from one end of the country to another.
• 2:23
  Crista Cowan: So when you ask us about place as a character in the story, it sometimes gets a little jumbled.
• 2:29
  Crista Cowan: Well, Julie's client was from the state of Washington by way of California, but the real story starts in Georgia.
• 2:38
  Crista Cowan: And so we've waited all season to get to Julie's story about her client's family history mystery that starts in the state of Georgia.
• 2:50
  Crista Cowan: Enjoy my conversation with Julie Merrill.
• 2:53
  Crista Cowan: So Julie, I'm so glad that you're here.
• 2:56
  Crista Cowan: Um I know who you are because we work together, but I don't know a lot about you.
• 3:01
  Crista Cowan: So I would love to hear how you got into family history.
• 3:04
  Julie Merrill: Well, it kind of starts out when I was born.
• 3:07
  Julie Merrill: My dad, so I'm one of eight kids, and my dad gave us all our middle names from our ancestors.
• 3:14
  Julie Merrill: So my name, my full name is Julene Patria.
• 3:17
  Julie Merrill: And so I go by Julie because no one can ever say Juline right or spell it right.
• 3:21
  Julie Merrill: Or they might start singing Dolly Parton to you.
• 3:23
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 3:24
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 3:25
  Julie Merrill: So, um, and then so Patria is my middle name, and I get that from my great-great-grandmother, and who is Amelia Patria.
• 3:32
  Julie Merrill: And when I was 16 years old, I was taking a typing class, and they said, You have to go home and type at home.
• 3:37
  Julie Merrill: And so I said, Dad, do you have anything for me to type?
• 3:40
  Julie Merrill: I need something to type.
• 3:41
  Julie Merrill: He said, Oh yeah.
• 3:42
  Julie Merrill: Here, you type out these long pedigree charts.
• 3:45
  Julie Merrill: So he's he said to me, start, so he would handwrite all the pedigree charts and I would then type them up.
• 3:50
  Julie Merrill: And so as I started typing, I would see that my here's Patria.
• 3:55
  Julie Merrill: And oh dad, is this me?
• 3:57
  Julie Merrill: Is this where I got my name?
• 3:59
  Julie Merrill: And he's oh yeah, I've got all the stories.
• 4:01
  Julie Merrill: So then we started being genealogy buddies.
• 4:04
  Julie Merrill: And we would go to the library and we'd at least once a week or be at home once a week.
• 4:09
  Julie Merrill: And I hear you do that with your dad as well.
• 4:11
  Julie Merrill: So it was even up until a week before he died, we had our genealogy buddy date, and we we'd do genealogy together.
• 4:18
  Julie Merrill: So, but yeah, so we I just developed a love for my ancestors at a young age, and because my mom would say, Oh, you get your music ability from such and such ancestor.
• 4:28
  Julie Merrill: Oh, you're just like, you know, you have you have the love of cars like Bob did, or you have you're like artistic, like your grandma dot.
• 4:37
  Julie Merrill: And and so that's how I got into genealogy is just asking questions and being curious about my name, and and then just starting, and then that light gets inside of you, and it you just can't like quench that light of just it just the curiosity of trying to find your ancestors.
• 4:54
  Julie Merrill: So that's been something I've done my whole life now.
• 4:57
  Julie Merrill: It's since I was 16 and it never stopped.
• 5:00
  Julie Merrill: And then I still like it's even better when you help people and and they get their joy because something they could not do, maybe I can help you with that.
• 5:09
  Julie Merrill: And maybe that's my talent, and maybe that's why I was here on earth, so that I could do that.
• 5:14
  Crista Cowan: Well, I love that.
• 5:14
  Crista Cowan: Did any of your siblings get the bug too, or is it just you?
• 5:19
  Julie Merrill: Well, they started to in the last couple of years.
• 5:21
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 5:22
  Julie Merrill: And it's been funny because like when we start talking genealogy, all my sisters and all my siblings are like, oh, tell us.
• 5:31
  Julie Merrill: We've heard this story so many times.
• 5:34
  Julie Merrill: And it's funny because then they'll go have their kids ask them a question and they don't know.
• 5:39
  Julie Merrill: And they'll say, Well, where did they where did they come from again?
• 5:43
  Julie Merrill: And they'll say it, and I said, Don't you remember?
• 5:45
  Julie Merrill: Haven't we told you the story a thousand times?
• 5:48
  Julie Merrill: No, I don't remember.
• 5:49
  Julie Merrill: I said, We've told you.
• 5:51
  Julie Merrill: We've told you, we've given you the books, we've given you the CDs.
• 5:54
  Julie Merrill: How about Jane?
• 5:55
  Julie Merrill: Have you even looked at those?
• 5:56
  Julie Merrill: It's too hard to look at those.
• 5:58
  Julie Merrill: Just tell me.
• 5:58
  Julie Merrill: So my husband's family too is the same way.
• 6:01
  Julie Merrill: I know more about their family now than they do.
• 6:03
  Julie Merrill: And so they always just call and ask me.
• 6:05
  Crista Cowan: It's so interesting, though, because there's really usually just one in every family.
• 6:08
  Crista Cowan: That's right.
• 6:09
  Crista Cowan: And everybody's curious, but there's one that kind of becomes the story keeper that everybody comes to to get the stories.
• 6:15
  Crista Cowan: Right.
• 6:16
  Julie Merrill: And then my sister, uh, a few years ago, her husband's parents had died, or were one of them had died, and one was getting pretty sick.
• 6:23
  Julie Merrill: So they gave them all of their stuff, which included a whole bunch of boxes of genealogy.
• 6:28
  Julie Merrill: And my sister's like, now what am I gonna do with this?
• 6:30
  Julie Merrill: Because I'm not even a genealogist.
• 6:32
  Julie Merrill: So then she started taking my dad away from me and saying, Dad, you gotta help me with this.
• 6:38
  Julie Merrill: So I was infringed upon.
• 6:40
  Julie Merrill: Oh.
• 6:40
  Julie Merrill: And I was like, You can't have my day.
• 6:43
  Julie Merrill: You had to go on a different day.
• 6:44
  Julie Merrill: There you go.
• 6:45
  Julie Merrill: No, but it was cool because then she got involved with it too.
• 6:48
  Julie Merrill: So I love that.
• 6:49
  Crista Cowan: That's amazing.
• 6:50
  Crista Cowan: Well, so when did you decide to become a professional genealogist?
• 6:54
  Julie Merrill: Well, so I was a stay-at-home mom.
• 6:56
  Julie Merrill: I have three kids and lovely husband, and we've been married now for 32 years.
• 7:01
  Julie Merrill: And when my kids were were LDS, and when they were, I have like two boys are 18 months apart, and they both were out on an LDS mission at the same time.
• 7:11
  Julie Merrill: And and if you know anything about that, that's paying a lot of money each month for the boys.
• 7:17
  Julie Merrill: And my husband was the only income at that time.
• 7:20
  Julie Merrill: And having two boys out and having all of our own bills, which we weren't very rich at all, we we I decided, okay, I bet I better go to work.
• 7:31
  Julie Merrill: And so the kids were basically raised.
• 7:33
  Julie Merrill: I mean, they were, you know, later older teenagers, when I said, okay, it's time for me to start to get to work.
• 7:39
  Julie Merrill: And so I did a five-year volunteer service mission for Family Search and at that and started learning all of the dynamics that I didn't know.
• 7:49
  Julie Merrill: I mean, I had kept up on it and done my own for so long and helped people, I felt like I knew everything.
• 7:55
  Julie Merrill: And then you go and start with people who do it for a living and think, oh my gosh, I know nothing.
• 8:01
  Julie Merrill: And then all of the tricks with the computer.
• 8:04
  Julie Merrill: I mean, being very computer savvy is really part of the job.
• 8:08
  Julie Merrill: And so I had to learn a lot of tricks.
• 8:10
  Julie Merrill: And so then after I put that under my belt, I had some experience and I heard that they were applying.
• 8:16
  Julie Merrill: The ancestry gen pro genealogist was hiring, and I went in and said, I want to be a research manager.
• 8:23
  Julie Merrill: And they said, Oh, little girl, you we're gonna start you out as an assistant, and you have to work your way up.
• 8:31
  Julie Merrill: So it's been, it's gonna be 10 and a half years now that I've worked there and worked my way up from an assistant, and I got my accreditation now, which is about equal to like a master's degree in genealogy.
• 8:44
  Julie Merrill: And and so that's kind of been my journey of just trying to support my kids.
• 8:50
  Julie Merrill: But then it got to the point where okay, now they're grown.
• 8:54
  Julie Merrill: Now we need to help them out, and now we need to get ready for retirement.
• 8:57
  Julie Merrill: So let's get the house paid off.
• 8:59
  Julie Merrill: And so I just kind of continued on.
• 9:01
  Julie Merrill: And hopefully Don't you love it?
• 9:03
  Julie Merrill: I do love it.
• 9:04
  Julie Merrill: I hate the business of it.
• 9:06
  Julie Merrill: Sure.
• 9:06
  Julie Merrill: I hate the red tape of it.
• 9:08
  Julie Merrill: I wish I could just do it for free.
• 9:10
  Julie Merrill: I shouldn't say that right.
• 9:11
  Julie Merrill: I shouldn't say that for free, but I I wish I could just do it for free because that's where you get the joy from it.
• 9:18
  Julie Merrill: I don't need the paycheck to get the joy.
• 9:20
  Julie Merrill: I I get the joy from seeing their reaction and giving that to them and and seeing where they came from.
• 9:27
  Julie Merrill: That means so meaningful to people.
• 9:29
  Julie Merrill: Now I I'm I'm pretty confident in what I do and and and feel like I can help a lot of people.
• 9:34
  Crista Cowan: So I love that.
• 9:35
  Crista Cowan: You know, it's so interesting because as you say that, you know, I found myself in a very similar position where I had been doing family history my whole life and thought I knew what I was doing.
• 9:43
  Crista Cowan: And then you step into that professional arena and you learn very quickly what you don't know.
• 9:49
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 9:49
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 9:50
  Julie Merrill: Like, I know how to track a person, I can do it.
• 9:52
  Julie Merrill: Yeah, but then somebody gives me their brick wall session that's starting in 1700.
• 9:57
  Julie Merrill: I'm like, I had no idea how to do that.
• 9:59
  Julie Merrill: And and I'd never even looked at a deed.
• 10:02
  Julie Merrill: I think I looked at one will, but that was it.
• 10:05
  Julie Merrill: But my whole job now is deeds, probate records, taxless, because that's what it is in the South.
• 10:10
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 10:10
  Julie Merrill: And there really wasn't a lot of vital records before 1900.
• 10:14
  Julie Merrill: So that's my that's where I live and breathe right now.
• 10:17
  Crista Cowan: So well, we're so glad there are people like you who do.
• 10:20
  Crista Cowan: And like, and those are skills that people like when you're climbing your own family tree, just as a hobby genealogist trying to learn about your own family.
• 10:28
  Crista Cowan: You know, if your family stays concentrated in one area, you can become pretty proficient at that.
• 10:33
  Crista Cowan: That's right.
• 10:34
  Crista Cowan: But the second your tree branches to somewhere else, it's like you're starting all over again.
• 10:38
  Julie Merrill: Exactly.
• 10:38
  Julie Merrill: And so, really, every case I get, I learn something new.
• 10:42
  Julie Merrill: And they've been starting to give me stuff from all over the United States.
• 10:45
  Julie Merrill: I mean, they did, but more so lately, whatever they get in, if it's not southern, is it general US?
• 10:52
  Julie Merrill: And now even I'm I'm getting to kind of be the colonial girl of let's go do any colonial research anywhere, they've been given to me.
• 11:01
  Julie Merrill: So, and especially if it involves a DNA at all, then then it starts to come to me.
• 11:05
  Julie Merrill: But yeah, I would never have touched it if I wasn't it just on my own.
• 11:09
  Julie Merrill: But I've had to be thrown into it and and you have to teach yourself and have to be open to learn and not just say, some people I know are like, oh, it's outside of my wheelhouse.
• 11:19
  Julie Merrill: I'm not even gonna touch it.
• 11:21
  Julie Merrill: Rather than I'm gonna try and learn, I'm gonna ask a lot of questions, I'm gonna go to people who do know and let me try and build my knowledge base.
• 11:28
  Julie Merrill: So yeah, yeah.
• 11:30
  Crista Cowan: Well, you have done a lot of client work, but there's one particular story that you shared with Lisa, and I am so excited because I don't know a lot of the details about it to hear about this.
• 11:41
  Crista Cowan: So tell us a little bit about this client and you know when she came to you what it was she was looking for.
• 11:46
  Julie Merrill: Okay, we'll call her Jane.
• 11:47
  Julie Merrill: Okay, because we'll it's for privacy reasons.
• 11:49
  Julie Merrill: Sure.
• 11:50
  Julie Merrill: But Jane was is 83 years old.
• 11:52
  Julie Merrill: Oh, and she came to me and she said, Now I've been doing genealogy for over 20 years, and I've filled in all the lines of my family tree, but I don't know anything about my grandpa.
• 12:05
  Julie Merrill: And she started telling me the story, and it was just heartbreaking.
• 12:10
  Julie Merrill: You know, her mom, her mom is Marion, okay, and Marion is one of six kids.
• 12:16
  Julie Merrill: And then her grandpa was William H.
• 12:19
  Julie Merrill: Wheeler, and his wife was Lillian.
• 12:22
  Julie Merrill: And she knew from the time they got married in 1900 in Alameda County, California, she knew about them for about 20 years until about 1920.
• 12:32
  Julie Merrill: And then she was far then the family dis Lillian and William decided to get divorced.
• 12:39
  Julie Merrill: And in 1921, Lillian filed for divorce, and in 1923 it was finalized.
• 12:44
  Julie Merrill: And how old was their daughter at the time?
• 12:46
  Julie Merrill: So Marion was only about five years old, and she and her old her next older brother, Marshall, were farmed out to un to non-relatives.
• 12:55
  Julie Merrill: And in 1920 and 1930, they're on census records alone, really, with these people who raised them.
• 13:02
  Julie Merrill: Just as fostering.
• 13:03
  Julie Merrill: Yeah, and later on they were able to kind of meet up back with up their older siblings.
• 13:08
  Julie Merrill: The older siblings were able to stay with mom because they could take care of themselves.
• 13:11
  Julie Merrill: But she, I think she was five and her older brother was six or seven.
• 13:16
  Julie Merrill: And so, really, and her mom, so Marian was the mom, and her mom was Lillian, and Lillian herself was orphaned.
• 13:24
  Julie Merrill: She was on the 1880 census as in an orphanage with her older sister.
• 13:29
  Julie Merrill: So you think about that, she's young and she doesn't know anything about where she comes from, right?
• 13:35
  Julie Merrill: And her parents are taken away from her.
• 13:37
  Julie Merrill: Her mom, Lillian, didn't know where she was from and didn't have any idea of what was going on because she was taken away from her parents.
• 13:44
  Crista Cowan: Do you ever wonder, like, like for somebody like Lillian to have been in an orphanage, how hard it must have been for her to do that to her own children, too?
• 13:53
  Crista Cowan: I know.
• 13:53
  Crista Cowan: Like, so how destitute she must have been to make that choice.
• 13:57
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 13:57
  Julie Merrill: And so so we we find out, okay, so where is William?
• 14:01
  Julie Merrill: Where did he go after this?
• 14:02
  Julie Merrill: After the divorce, we don't even know if he was at the divorce hearing because it was only in newspapers.
• 14:07
  Julie Merrill: We get these small little sniffs.
• 14:08
  Julie Merrill: Was Lillian the one who filed?
• 14:09
  Julie Merrill: Yeah, Lillian was the one that fired for cruel and abuse and and be destitute, like leaving her alone and be in in um, what is it called, abandonment.
• 14:20
  Julie Merrill: And and so she was all alone.
• 14:23
  Julie Merrill: And so here's William, and she's like, okay, either he was dropped off by aliens and picked up by aliens later on.
• 14:31
  Crista Cowan: That is the excuse genealogists love to use.
• 14:33
  Julie Merrill: I mean, it's so odd.
• 14:34
  Julie Merrill: Usually we we can't tell where they're from, but then we know what happened to them after they were adults.
• 14:39
  Julie Merrill: But this is like gone.
• 14:41
  Julie Merrill: So we know from her obituary, from Lillian's obituary, she said her husband died in 1931.
• 14:47
  Julie Merrill: Doesn't give a date, doesn't give a place.
• 14:49
  Julie Merrill: Even though he wasn't still her husband, they still Yeah, she still said that in other obituary.
• 14:54
  Julie Merrill: Well, I don't know if she said that, but uh the family.
• 14:56
  Julie Merrill: And and so I looked everywhere for him.
• 14:59
  Julie Merrill: Couldn't find him anywhere.
• 15:01
  Julie Merrill: Like we looked all through 1931.
• 15:04
  Crista Cowan: Before or after.
• 15:04
  Julie Merrill: Before or after.
• 15:05
  Julie Merrill: 1912 voter registration is the last time we see him in San Francisco, and that's it.
• 15:11
  Crista Cowan: And they were still married at the time.
• 15:13
  Julie Merrill: And yeah, in 1910, we had one of census together, but that's it.
• 15:16
  Julie Merrill: That's it.
• 15:17
  Julie Merrill: And and so they were he was just gone.
• 15:19
  Julie Merrill: And so there were a lot of rumors of what and she was telling me this.
• 15:24
  Julie Merrill: My cousin said this, my cousin said this, you know, my older sister said this, and she went and asked everybody, because she's like, I've gotta know.
• 15:31
  Julie Merrill: And she said, Okay, so one sa one cousin said that he had joined the military, been in the Spanish-American War, and joined the military in 1898 and died in 1928, and went off, and the one another one was he was he was walked up into the Sierra Nevadas one day and he committed suicide.
• 15:51
  Julie Merrill: And the third one was that he went off to Hollywood, he wanted to be in the pictures.
• 15:56
  Crista Cowan: He wanted to be in Hollywood and go in the movie.
• 15:57
  Crista Cowan: He just do you ever wonder how these stories like sometimes family stories have like a kernel of truth, and sometimes they're so wild.
• 16:05
  Julie Merrill: Yes.
• 16:05
  Julie Merrill: I'm like, okay, so which of the wild, what kernel of truth is there in any of that?
• 16:10
  Julie Merrill: And I do have to say we we didn't talk about um the siblings, all of Lillian and William's kids.
• 16:18
  Julie Merrill: So their kids were Ruth, Ruby, William, Bernard, Grace, and then Marion.
• 16:25
  Julie Merrill: So those names will be very important as the story unfolds for us to remember.
• 16:30
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 16:31
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 16:32
  Crista Cowan: So so Jane's got you chasing down all the things, and you were just hitting brick wall after brick wall after brick wall with William.
• 16:41
  Crista Cowan: Is there something that like finally breaks it open?
• 16:44
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 16:45
  Julie Merrill: So when I kind of, you know, you go through the real the standard genealogy things.
• 16:50
  Julie Merrill: You look for other wheelers who lived near him, right?
• 16:53
  Julie Merrill: You look for obituary, nothing.
• 16:56
  Julie Merrill: Look for uh even a death record, nothing.
• 16:59
  Julie Merrill: I mean, I like it.
• 17:00
  Julie Merrill: But I am like William Wheeler.
• 17:02
  Julie Merrill: I know.
• 17:02
  Julie Merrill: So there were tons.
• 17:04
  Julie Merrill: There were like 10, but none of them seemed to even be in that San Francisco, Alameda County area.
• 17:10
  Julie Merrill: None of them had the wife Lillian, none were the right age.
• 17:14
  Julie Merrill: I mean, even I even looked for ones that even just committed suicide or whatever.
• 17:18
  Julie Merrill: I even went down to Los Angeles County to see you know Hollywood.
• 17:22
  Julie Merrill: Nothing.
• 17:23
  Julie Merrill: Nothing.
• 17:24
  Julie Merrill: Had Jane DNA tested at this point?
• 17:26
  Julie Merrill: Yes.
• 17:27
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 17:27
  Julie Merrill: So and we encouraged her to do that.
• 17:29
  Julie Merrill: We said we had to do this before because it was such a close relationship that she wanted to find out.
• 17:34
  Julie Merrill: And so we're like, you really should do this.
• 17:37
  Julie Merrill: If we want to get the full picture, we need to do this.
• 17:40
  Julie Merrill: So it's and the census records that we got, I need to back up just a little bit and say the census records we got, we're saying that one of them said he was born in Virginia and one said he was born in Georgia.
• 17:51
  Crista Cowan: Those are very different places.
• 17:53
  Julie Merrill: Exactly.
• 17:53
  Julie Merrill: They're not, they're not similar.
• 17:55
  Julie Merrill: And we think, okay, is he trying to mislead us?
• 17:58
  Julie Merrill: Or is he even the right age that he's saying that he's he is?
• 18:02
  Julie Merrill: And really, is this even one of them true?
• 18:05
  Julie Merrill: And so when we start looking at DNA, immediately you go with, okay, let me look for wheeler.
• 18:11
  Julie Merrill: Okay, it's the mom side of the family.
• 18:13
  Julie Merrill: So we we take off the paternal side, right?
• 18:15
  Julie Merrill: We look at the mom side of the family, we take off Lillian's side and say, okay, what's left?
• 18:20
  Julie Merrill: And and we and I mean, me, I get into this thing of I'm gonna create a theory and I'm gonna work so hard to make that theory work.
• 18:28
  Julie Merrill: And I don't care, it's gonna work whether it's true or not.
• 18:32
  Julie Merrill: I'm gonna push those puzzle pieces in and make them fit, right?
• 18:35
  Julie Merrill: And and so I what we're looking for is because William's the grandpa, we're looking for second and third cousins of of May of our client Jane that would match up to be either William's parents or grandparents.
• 18:51
  Crista Cowan: Did it ever occur to you maybe William had gone off and had another family?
• 18:55
  Julie Merrill: Yes, it it did.
• 18:56
  Julie Merrill: And so that's why I was looking.
• 18:57
  Julie Merrill: Is there an obituary for him that would mention his kids or do his kids say anything about their dad?
• 19:03
  Julie Merrill: And so we had looked through all of those and none even showed up.
• 19:07
  Julie Merrill: And so when I I said, let's look for this, I I immediately said had to toss a coin.
• 19:13
  Julie Merrill: Am I gonna look for Virginia or Georgia first?
• 19:15
  Julie Merrill: And said, I'm okay, Virginia.
• 19:17
  Julie Merrill: Virginia sounds good, right?
• 19:19
  Julie Merrill: Good Virginia family.
• 19:20
  Julie Merrill: So I I said, let's look for Virginia, and I said, let's look for William, for Wheelers.
• 19:26
  Julie Merrill: At the time he was married, he was Wheeler.
• 19:28
  Julie Merrill: He seemed, you know, he was a bartender and a hotel keeper, and he was a he was a uh press agent when he uh on the 1898 voter registration, he's a press agent.
• 19:39
  Julie Merrill: So he's done all of these things.
• 19:41
  Julie Merrill: But anyway, so I'm going to look at DNA, and I see the wheel uh a cluster of wheelers in Virginia and get really excited.
• 19:50
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 19:51
  Julie Merrill: But they are fourth and fifth cousins, and they share a very small amount of Centa Morgans.
• 19:57
  Julie Merrill: And that's what we use to define how close a relationship you have to your ancestors.
• 20:02
  Julie Merrill: And we were looking for someone that's a lot closer related because we would think even if William was an only child, he should at least have third cousins that are showing up.
• 20:12
  Julie Merrill: And and I may, I was really set on this Virginia family that I found, okay, well, maybe it's just because I haven't documented the whole family, and maybe those people haven't tested a lot, the whole cluster.
• 20:24
  Julie Merrill: So let me build out this family.
• 20:25
  Julie Merrill: I build out this family.
• 20:28
  Julie Merrill: You know, this one I felt like I really had to dig in for this lady who just was so desperate to know.
• 20:34
  Julie Merrill: And so I really tried to look for any of the family that were in this cluster of wheelers, and I looked for anybody who had left the family that was about William's age, couldn't find anybody.
• 20:49
  Julie Merrill: I looked for anybody like a daughter that married a wheeler of this family, but nothing.
• 20:56
  Julie Merrill: Nothing.
• 20:57
  Julie Merrill: I couldn't, and I all the people were all accounted for.
• 21:00
  Julie Merrill: So I just had to swallow my pride and say, okay, Julie, you have to start over again.
• 21:06
  Julie Merrill: Go back to what do we know?
• 21:09
  Julie Merrill: And is it possible that he could have married, like his mom could have married a wheeler?
• 21:14
  Julie Merrill: He wasn't born a wheeler.
• 21:15
  Julie Merrill: That was a thought I'd had.
• 21:17
  Julie Merrill: Or was it that he changed his name?
• 21:20
  Julie Merrill: And what he changed when he changed his name, that wasn't even on my mind at any of this, because we all think all our people are honest, good work, right people.
• 21:28
  Julie Merrill: So then Ice Car centered in on this Simmons family that was from Gwyneth County, Georgia, was another cluster that I had found.
• 21:39
  Julie Merrill: And once I decided to get off my horse of the wheeler side and just say what's there, I just find that that Simmons family.
• 21:48
  Julie Merrill: So Okay.
• 21:48
  Julie Merrill: So tell me about the Simmons family.
• 21:50
  Julie Merrill: So all of the Simmons cousins, and I found like 30, 40 cousins in the DNA matches.
• 21:55
  Julie Merrill: In this DNA matches that were all from this family that stemmed.
• 21:59
  Julie Merrill: From the patriarch that was John James Pinckney Simmons, who was born about 1813 and died about 1894.
• 22:07
  Julie Merrill: And all of his kids seemed to kind of live in that area, kind of in Gwinnett County and around and then went down into a Lake Atlanta area.
• 22:17
  Julie Merrill: So they I was centered in that family and was trying to look, and just with the DNA and how things lined up, it would seem like I was guessing that William Wheeler was the grandson of James Pinckney.
• 22:31
  Julie Merrill: And that's kind of my theory.
• 22:34
  Julie Merrill: So I was looking for what parent, you know, which one of James's kids could be the parent.
• 22:40
  Julie Merrill: Yep.
• 22:40
  Julie Merrill: So that's kind of where I was at.
• 22:41
  Julie Merrill: Yes.
• 22:42
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 22:43
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 22:43
  Julie Merrill: Father or mother.
• 22:44
  Julie Merrill: And it was hard because I didn't know.
• 22:46
  Julie Merrill: So that's kind of where that left in.
• 22:48
  Crista Cowan: That's and and it's so crazy because when you start working these DNA matches, you know the answer is there, but there's so many variables that you're trying sometimes.
• 22:58
  Crista Cowan: We build out massive family trees just trying to find the right thread to pull.
• 23:04
  Crista Cowan: Yeah.
• 23:04
  Crista Cowan: Yeah.
• 23:04
  Julie Merrill: And and so yeah, I looked for where so he had eight children.
• 23:08
  Julie Merrill: And of the eight children, there were three that didn't have kids.
• 23:13
  Julie Merrill: One, one, two adults that never married, and then one that died as a child.
• 23:17
  Julie Merrill: So I had five adult children to work with.
• 23:19
  Julie Merrill: And as I worked my way through all five, I said, okay, all of their children are accounted for.
• 23:26
  Julie Merrill: They all stayed in the family.
• 23:28
  Julie Merrill: This one didn't have any sons.
• 23:30
  Julie Merrill: This one, you know, okay, they had sons, but they all stayed with parents.
• 23:35
  Julie Merrill: They all were documented in census records and obitu and obituaries and and um and death certificates.
• 23:42
  Julie Merrill: And so I was just left with one girl.
• 23:45
  Julie Merrill: That's amazing.
• 23:46
  Julie Merrill: Well, that was a lot of work.
• 23:48
  Julie Merrill: Yes.
• 23:48
  Julie Merrill: That was a lot of work.
• 23:49
  Julie Merrill: And then I was also, like I said, looking for any wheel wheelers who could have married into that family.
• 23:53
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 23:54
  Julie Merrill: And and didn't find any.
• 23:55
  Julie Merrill: So Anna Eliza Simmons was daughter of James Pinckney.
• 23:59
  Julie Merrill: And I found that she married a guy named Marshall Kelly, Marshall Bernard Kelly.
• 24:07
  Julie Merrill: And they got married around 1871 in Gwinnick County.
• 24:11
  Julie Merrill: And they had moved around a little bit down to Mobile, Alabama, but then back up to uh Atlanta by 1900.
• 24:18
  Julie Merrill: And they had three kids.
• 24:21
  Julie Merrill: The oldest one was Simmons, and their next two daughters were Ruth and Ruby.
• 24:26
  Julie Merrill: Huh.
• 24:27
  Julie Merrill: I don't say you know anything.
• 24:29
  Julie Merrill: Does that sound familiar at all?
• 24:33
  Julie Merrill: I always said remember those names.
• 24:36
  Julie Merrill: So so that we got those three people.
• 24:38
  Julie Merrill: And now we're stuck with, okay, what do what can we find out about this family?
• 24:42
  Julie Merrill: And does this their only son, Simmons, he's about the right age.
• 24:47
  Julie Merrill: He was born around 1870, which is our guy was born around 1870, but does he leave the family?
• 24:53
  Julie Merrill: Yeah, because if he stays, it's not him.
• 24:55
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 24:56
  Julie Merrill: Simmons Kelly.
• 24:58
  Julie Merrill: Yep, Simmons Kelly.
• 24:59
  Julie Merrill: Now he so he obviously took his mom's maiden name as his first name.
• 25:02
  Julie Merrill: Right.
• 25:03
  Julie Merrill: And and so it was pretty interesting.
• 25:06
  Crista Cowan: That is crazy.
• 25:07
  Crista Cowan: And so like but the fact that DNA can lead you to somebody, but then how do you how do you figure out what happens?
• 25:15
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 25:15
  Julie Merrill: So usually it's okay, it's fine a couple census records, maybe an obituary, right?
• 25:21
  Julie Merrill: And you and so I start p plugging his name into the newspaper databases.
• 25:27
  Julie Merrill: Hundreds of articles come up.
• 25:30
  Julie Merrill: What?
• 25:31
  Julie Merrill: And I'm like, And newspapers are where the story is always buried.
• 25:36
  Julie Merrill: It is, it is.
• 25:38
  Julie Merrill: And and usually, you know, you think, okay, normal people don't really have a lot in the newspapers.
• 25:44
  Julie Merrill: I mean, there's in the social columns somebody grew a big tomato or something like that.
• 25:48
  Julie Merrill: But you or they went to the dance or visited somebody, but you usually don't hear this big story unfolding.
• 25:56
  Julie Merrill: And and so, you know, let me tell you a little about Simmons though.
• 26:00
  Crista Cowan: Okay, for here's here's what I want you to do.
• 26:02
  Crista Cowan: Let's see if we can do this.
• 26:03
  Crista Cowan: Because you have just led us on this like research treasure hunt, and I love it, and you've landed on this guy.
• 26:09
  Crista Cowan: But now I want you to just tell me the story of Simmons.
• 26:12
  Crista Cowan: Like, remove yourself and just like if you were like, how did you tell this story to Jane when you finally told her?
• 26:19
  Julie Merrill: So I was I described Simmons Kelly as Tom Cruise.
• 26:24
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 26:25
  Julie Merrill: He was the playboy, the preppy guy, you know, early 20s, who went to every party.
• 26:33
  Julie Merrill: He was the dapper.
• 26:34
  Julie Merrill: Was the family wealthy?
• 26:37
  Julie Merrill: Yes.
• 26:38
  Julie Merrill: The family was wealthy.
• 26:40
  Julie Merrill: And they, I mean, he was the guy who, like in Gone with the Wind, you know, you've got this Clark Gable kind of a guy who just was every girl loved him, every guy wanted to be him.
• 26:53
  Julie Merrill: He was at every party.
• 26:55
  Julie Merrill: Was the oldest son.
• 26:57
  Julie Merrill: Yes.
• 26:57
  Julie Merrill: He's from a wealthy family.
• 26:58
  Julie Merrill: Exactly.
• 26:59
  Julie Merrill: So he had a good job at the King Hardware Company, and he was their head accountant and very well respected.
• 27:07
  Julie Merrill: Their family had a great reputation.
• 27:09
  Julie Merrill: And uh they one of their uncles actually, so it was uh Anna Eliza Simmons, uh her brother was a judge, a circuit court judge, and so he was the really the wealthiest of the fan.
• 27:22
  Julie Merrill: So they're not just wealthy, they're influential.
• 27:24
  Julie Merrill: Exactly.
• 27:25
  Julie Merrill: And and so the circuit court judge, though, he was the one that had the most wealth and had the biggest home and everything.
• 27:31
  Julie Merrill: So but as we're starting to hear everything, everybody loved him so much.
• 27:36
  Julie Merrill: And it there was nothing that could ever say anything, and nobody could say anything bad about him.
• 27:42
  Crista Cowan: Aaron Powell And he's an accountant for a company, so he's obviously a little bit older.
• 27:45
  Crista Cowan: No, he's in his early twenties.
• 27:47
  Crista Cowan: I mean, that's okay.
• 27:49
  Julie Merrill: But still single.
• 27:49
  Julie Merrill: Yeah, but he had the promise of becoming like the next millionaire kind of thing.
• 27:54
  Julie Merrill: Of he's he could be he could be that guy that makes his own way in the business and and makes those millions on his own because he had that influence, he had the family, he had the knowledge.
• 28:04
  Julie Merrill: He's not a politician, exactly, yeah.
• 28:06
  Julie Merrill: Exactly.
• 28:07
  Julie Merrill: So he he was this guy that that we thought this was perfect.
• 28:11
  Crista Cowan: And what happened?
• 28:13
  Julie Merrill: Well, so he like I say he he had this uncle that was this judge.
• 28:18
  Julie Merrill: And so he goes to see his uncle William, William Simmons, and and so he he said he's named for him, but he took his mom's surname.
• 28:27
  Julie Merrill: But he said I was named for my uncle.
• 28:29
  Julie Merrill: But um, he wants to go visit his uncle, and his uncle lives in this beautiful plantation home, and he gets real along really well with the family.
• 28:37
  Julie Merrill: And what year is this?
• 28:38
  Julie Merrill: This is 1894.
• 28:40
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 28:41
  Julie Merrill: So he's he's there and he's he's visiting with them and just he likes to visit his family, right?
• 28:47
  Julie Merrill: Right?
• 28:48
  Julie Merrill: So it just comes he's there for a week or so, and then it comes time for the uncle to go out on his circuit court duties, and he leaves her him home with his wife and the family to visit.
• 29:00
  Julie Merrill: And he gets on well with them.
• 29:02
  Julie Merrill: They're having a great time.
• 29:03
  Julie Merrill: And then he and then he says, Oh, Simmons says it's time for me to go home now.
• 29:07
  Julie Merrill: And he goes back home, and he go, my mom told me I can't stay for more than two weeks.
• 29:11
  Julie Merrill: And not not long after he leaves, they decide they discover that the family safe had been broken into.
• 29:19
  Julie Merrill: What?
• 29:19
  Julie Merrill: And all of the family jewels were taken.
• 29:24
  Julie Merrill: All of the heirlooms, all of the gold watches, the diamond rings, the jewelry, the pins, everything that they had, which was about $2,000, was stolen.
• 29:33
  Julie Merrill: And has Simmons been there by himself?
• 29:36
  Julie Merrill: Did he have friends with him?
• 29:37
  Julie Merrill: He was there with only with the wife and like the maids and the butlers and everything, but he knows the family.
• 29:43
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 29:44
  Julie Merrill: And so it was about $76,000 in today's money that had gone missing.
• 29:49
  Julie Merrill: And they they don't think of Simmons at all because he's so well respected and well like.
• 29:54
  Julie Merrill: They said it has to be someone else, one of the servants, somebody else broke into the house.
• 29:59
  Julie Merrill: But then they thought, who else knew the combination?
• 30:02
  Julie Merrill: Who else was in the right place at the right time?
• 30:04
  Julie Merrill: Who just left?
• 30:06
  Julie Merrill: Kind of, okay, he leaves right when they find this thing happening.
• 30:11
  Julie Merrill: And so they're all in shock.
• 30:13
  Julie Merrill: They can't figure it out.
• 30:14
  Julie Merrill: And the sheriff's like, duh, he has to be him.
• 30:17
  Julie Merrill: And they said, Well, you don't know him.
• 30:19
  Julie Merrill: He's everybody loves him.
• 30:21
  Julie Merrill: He never could do anything wrong.
• 30:22
  Julie Merrill: And so the sheriff says, No, it has to be him.
• 30:26
  Julie Merrill: We've eliminated all these other candidates because he was in the right place at the right time.
• 30:31
  Julie Merrill: You know, he we rounded up all the other suspects and we, it has to be him.
• 30:35
  Julie Merrill: And so they take the sheriff from the this Lawrenceville, Alabama county place where the uncle lived, they took him back to they the sheriff took three and his guys with him back to Atlanta because they thought that's where Simmons was gonna go.
• 30:52
  Julie Merrill: Up to that time, he didn't know he was convicted of anything.
• 30:55
  Julie Merrill: And the family said, we really want to keep this quiet because I mean they were kind of influential people that we want this solved quickly, we don't want any scandal at the family, and we we need to make sure this doesn't get out.
• 31:09
  Julie Merrill: And so they were trying to be real quiet.
• 31:11
  Julie Merrill: Handle it themselves.
• 31:12
  Julie Merrill: I know they were trying to handle it themselves.
• 31:14
  Julie Merrill: And so that's why the the sheriff went himself with these three other guys to try and find him.
• 31:19
  Julie Merrill: They couldn't find him in Atlanta.
• 31:21
  Julie Merrill: People kept saying, Oh, we saw him here, we saw him there, but they never could catch up with him.
• 31:27
  Julie Merrill: The judge himself says, I'm gonna take it into my own hands, I'm gonna go talk to my sister.
• 31:32
  Julie Merrill: So he goes to talk to Anna.
• 31:33
  Julie Merrill: He says, Anna, this is what's going on.
• 31:35
  Julie Merrill: And I said, Oh no, not my boy.
• 31:38
  Julie Merrill: My boy would never do that.
• 31:40
  Julie Merrill: And he's her only son.
• 31:41
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 31:42
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 31:42
  Julie Merrill: And I mean he has all this prospect and all this future.
• 31:45
  Julie Merrill: And she's like, No, it can never happen.
• 31:48
  Julie Merrill: And so she she just says, No.
• 31:52
  Julie Merrill: And you don't know at this time if if Simmons is hiding with them.
• 31:55
  Julie Merrill: Could he be in the cellar?
• 31:56
  Julie Merrill: Could he be in the attic?
• 31:57
  Julie Merrill: And she's just hiding from him from somebody.
• 32:00
  Julie Merrill: We don't know that protecting him.
• 32:01
  Julie Merrill: Or is he hiding with some trusted friends?
• 32:04
  Julie Merrill: We don't know.
• 32:05
  Julie Merrill: And and so the sheriff just spends a few days out there trying to look for him and just can't find him.
• 32:10
  Julie Merrill: And he kind of gives up.
• 32:12
  Julie Merrill: He's like, he's gone.
• 32:14
  Julie Merrill: He's not here.
• 32:15
  Julie Merrill: And obviously, if if I were Simmons, I would say, okay, people recognize me.
• 32:19
  Julie Merrill: I'm too well known here in Atlanta.
• 32:21
  Julie Merrill: I've got to get out of town.
• 32:22
  Julie Merrill: And so he the sightings of him have disappeared.
• 32:27
  Julie Merrill: There nobody sees him anymore.
• 32:29
  Julie Merrill: And the sheriff's like, I don't know where he went.
• 32:31
  Julie Merrill: So he's clearly either gone or gone deep in hiding.
• 32:33
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 32:34
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 32:35
  Julie Merrill: And and we also hear about the before he left to visit his uncle, he had been starting a relationship with someone in this Mabel Page theater company.
• 32:47
  Julie Merrill: And they're like the a vaudeville company that toured around.
• 32:51
  Julie Merrill: And we're pretty well known.
• 32:53
  Julie Merrill: And so I'm not sure if it's Mabel Page herself that he was in love with, but it was with somebody from her troupe.
• 33:01
  Julie Merrill: And he he starts sending her flowers and cards and everything.
• 33:05
  Julie Merrill: Now, this Mabel Page company traveled all over the United States.
• 33:08
  Julie Merrill: So the thought might have been is that he went undercover and traveled with the tour company out of town.
• 33:14
  Julie Merrill: So, and and then when we hear that part of it, we think, okay, is that the Hollywood connection that we find out, you know, that Jane is telling us at the beginning that he wanted to go to Hollywood because we find out later that Mabel Page Company went around the United States and went and ended up in Hollywood.
• 33:39
  Julie Merrill: So performers, yeah, little kernel of truth.
• 33:42
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 33:42
  Julie Merrill: So after the fact, though, a couple weeks later, we've we wonder where he went, right?
• 33:49
  Julie Merrill: So we're looking through newspapers and the Atlanta Journal says, okay, follow-up.
• 33:55
  Julie Merrill: Sightings have been seen.
• 33:57
  Julie Merrill: Simmons Kelly is seen in New York City.
• 34:00
  Julie Merrill: Oh.
• 34:00
  Julie Merrill: And guess what he's wearing?
• 34:02
  Julie Merrill: You know, and the top hat and the new cane and the diamond rings and all the Paris clothes.
• 34:07
  Julie Merrill: And he's spending the money, obviously, because he wasn't that wealthy before.
• 34:13
  Julie Merrill: Do you think these are actual sightings of him?
• 34:15
  Julie Merrill: Or do you think these are just people reporting?
• 34:17
  Julie Merrill: No, because it was a fri somebody that he knew as a business part as a as in his business had gone up to New York for something and they saw him.
• 34:27
  Julie Merrill: It was somebody he knew.
• 34:28
  Julie Merrill: Okay.
• 34:29
  Julie Merrill: And and wired back to Atlanta and said, we saw him here.
• 34:33
  Julie Merrill: And when he saw somebody knew him, then we think, okay, he's got to leave even New York.
• 34:38
  Julie Merrill: He might have thought he could have disappeared in New York.
• 34:41
  Julie Merrill: Everybody can disappear in New York.
• 34:42
  Julie Merrill: I know, I know.
• 34:44
  Julie Merrill: So um they went it they after he was seen in New York, that was that one sighting, and that was it.
• 34:51
  Crista Cowan: That's the last sighting of Simons Kelly.
• 34:52
  Crista Cowan: Simmons Kelly.
• 34:53
  Crista Cowan: That's right.
• 34:54
  Crista Cowan: Okay.
• 34:54
  Crista Cowan: And so how do you connect, other than the DNA, how do you connect the dots between Simmons Kelly and William?
• 35:03
  Julie Merrill: So with him disappearing, now it's it's 1894, end of night 1894, and it's starting to be in 1895.
• 35:12
  Julie Merrill: We don't see any sightings of him anymore.
• 35:14
  Julie Merrill: And the first time we see him in California in that voter registration was 1898, 1890.
• 35:20
  Julie Merrill: He's got a four-year gap.
• 35:23
  Julie Merrill: And is he touring with the c with that Mabel Page company at the time?
• 35:27
  Julie Merrill: He obviously could have made his way to New York.
• 35:29
  Julie Merrill: He could have made his way to to just as easy to California.
• 35:32
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 35:32
  Julie Merrill: And where he was was spotted in New York, maybe he thought he wouldn't have been noticed and to California and he could have reinvented himself there.
• 35:41
  Crista Cowan: Yeah.
• 35:42
  Julie Merrill: We've until I know until I traced him and I saw he never came back to Atlanta, you know, looking in all the obituaries of his sisters and his mom and dad, they nothing nobody ever said anything about him ever again.
• 35:56
  Crista Cowan: And yet, do we have any idea why he did this?
• 36:01
  Julie Merrill: No.
• 36:02
  Julie Merrill: And it was so funny though, I it's not funny, but his mom, as she's kind of kick getting to grips with this, she had put an article in the paper a few years before this happened, and she had a diamond pin that was stolen a couple years before.
• 36:20
  Julie Merrill: And so maybe this wasn't the first time he was in there.
• 36:23
  Julie Merrill: And I think she was coming to grips with that and kind of letting that sink in and not wanting to accept it, but then thinking this is what makes sense now.
• 36:33
  Julie Merrill: And and so and then and then when this happened too, the hardware company that he worked for, the King Hardware Company, starts getting into their books.
• 36:44
  Julie Merrill: Uh-oh.
• 36:45
  Julie Merrill: And they noticed there's some huge discrepancies.
• 36:50
  Julie Merrill: He'd been cooking the books for quite a long time and embezzling a lot of money from the company.
• 36:55
  Crista Cowan: Where is all the money going?
• 36:57
  Crista Cowan: I don't know.
• 36:58
  Crista Cowan: I mean, I have no idea.
• 37:01
  Crista Cowan: I mean, he doesn't have a wife and children.
• 37:02
  Crista Cowan: He's not investing in property or like buying businesses or and you know, maybe there's a whole nother story there.
• 37:10
  Julie Merrill: Maybe.
• 37:11
  Julie Merrill: Because I all I could see was what was following in the newspaper.
• 37:15
  Julie Merrill: Sure.
• 37:15
  Julie Merrill: Maybe he changed his name more than once.
• 37:18
  Julie Merrill: And I don't know where he was during that time frame when he left New York, came in, and then reappeared in in in San Francisco.
• 37:26
  Julie Merrill: I don't know where he was.
• 37:28
  Crista Cowan: Maybe he was so in love with this vaudeville one.
• 37:30
  Julie Merrill: I know.
• 37:30
  Julie Merrill: He just spent all the money on the company.
• 37:32
  Julie Merrill: I don't know.
• 37:33
  Julie Merrill: Gave him all the money to keep going.
• 37:35
  Julie Merrill: I don't know.
• 37:35
  Julie Merrill: But yeah, he didn't I mean he was this press agent.
• 37:38
  Julie Merrill: It's the first time we see him.
• 37:40
  Julie Merrill: Is that pretty not in California.
• 37:42
  Julie Merrill: Yeah, in California.
• 37:43
  Julie Merrill: And so he really didn't have money then.
• 37:45
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 37:45
  Julie Merrill: And he didn't act like he had money.
• 37:47
  Julie Merrill: I mean he was So he probably spent it all by then.
• 37:50
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 37:50
  Julie Merrill: Or or kept swirled it away somewhere because he didn't want to bring it to notice that you know that he had some money that where did that come from?
• 37:58
  Julie Merrill: Kind of thing.
• 37:59
  Crista Cowan: But he's not so callous that he forgets his family because he names his children after his siblings.
• 38:06
  Julie Merrill: That's right.
• 38:06
  Julie Merrill: But and then he takes his mom Anneliza, Elizabeth, as one of the name n middle names of one of the kids.
• 38:12
  Julie Merrill: And so his whole family, whether he's trying to honor them or he doesn't think he can escape his past, I don't know.
• 38:20
  Julie Merrill: And I don't know what he told his wife.
• 38:22
  Julie Merrill: I mean, what would you tell your wife?
• 38:24
  Julie Merrill: So my name, Julene Patria, my dad always told me it's from his first girlfriend.
• 38:28
  Julie Merrill: I mean, I don't know how my mom ever accepted that.
• 38:31
  Julie Merrill: But it so you never know what what that guilt was doing to him and what was going on back home was also tragic.
• 38:41
  Crista Cowan: Yeah.
• 38:41
  Julie Merrill: Is a couple months after what after Simmons left and all this scandal happened, his dad died.
• 38:48
  Julie Merrill: Oh.
• 38:49
  Julie Merrill: So his dad, he died at 50.
• 38:52
  Julie Merrill: And you have to think that this had some really emotional impact on him.
• 38:56
  Julie Merrill: I know whenever I worry about my kids, it affects my health.
• 38:59
  Julie Merrill: And can you imagine how that would be?
• 39:03
  Julie Merrill: You know, just the family's reputation and and everything just went down the tubes.
• 39:07
  Julie Merrill: And so Marshall dies, and by 1900, Anna and her girls have moved up to Manhattan.
• 39:15
  Julie Merrill: Did they follow?
• 39:17
  Julie Merrill: Did they try to find Simmons?
• 39:18
  Julie Merrill: Or were they just trying to escape that that drama that was going down along in Atlanta?
• 39:25
  Crista Cowan: Yeah.
• 39:25
  Crista Cowan: Don't know.
• 39:25
  Crista Cowan: So Wow.
• 39:26
  Crista Cowan: So uh Lillian divorces him, and so you've connected him to who he was before.
• 39:33
  Crista Cowan: Do you find out what happened to him after ever?
• 39:35
  Crista Cowan: No.
• 39:35
  Crista Cowan: So still complete mystery.
• 39:37
  Crista Cowan: Still a complete mystery.
• 39:38
  Crista Cowan: Is is there any world in which maybe he went home?
• 39:43
  Julie Merrill: Well, so Ann Eliza so Ann Eliza, his mom, in 1900 and 1910, she said she has three children that she is giving birth to and three that are still living.
• 39:55
  Julie Merrill: So she's holding out hope or she knows something.
• 39:58
  Julie Merrill: Right.
• 39:58
  Julie Merrill: And and so that's the only kind of little glimmer that we have that maybe there was some contact there.
• 40:06
  Julie Merrill: Well, if there was, she wasn't saying it.
• 40:08
  Julie Merrill: And the papers didn't get any whiff of it.
• 40:10
  Julie Merrill: Um and we don't know.
• 40:12
  Julie Merrill: It but we know he never went back home because we I looked at all of the back to Georgia.
• 40:19
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 40:20
  Julie Merrill: And and he the the family and Lillian and the family in California never heard from him again.
• 40:26
  Julie Merrill: Right.
• 40:26
  Julie Merrill: And so we we just don't ever know what happened to him.
• 40:30
  Julie Merrill: And I'm and you asked about is was did he have another family?
• 40:34
  Julie Merrill: It's possible.
• 40:35
  Julie Merrill: He could have changed his name again.
• 40:37
  Julie Merrill: He could yeah, he could have changed his name again.
• 40:39
  Julie Merrill: He could have been Cart Gable.
• 40:41
  Julie Merrill: He could have been Cart Gable in the and he said, I have to tell my story from Gone with the Wind.
• 40:47
  Julie Merrill: I don't know.
• 40:47
  Julie Merrill: But um, you know, you just never know what happened.
• 40:50
  Julie Merrill: And yeah, you have so many hours you've got to do this session in.
• 40:53
  Julie Merrill: And and at some point I had to just say, This is enough.
• 40:57
  Julie Merrill: And at least I was able to give that part to her.
• 41:00
  Crista Cowan: Yeah.
• 41:01
  Crista Cowan: Well, and who knows?
• 41:02
  Crista Cowan: Like if you did have another family, the DNA match may pop up someday.
• 41:06
  Julie Merrill: Yeah, we hope.
• 41:07
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 41:08
  Julie Merrill: I mean, uh as soon as I c centered in that Simmons family, I didn't look at everything else.
• 41:14
  Julie Merrill: Sure.
• 41:14
  Julie Merrill: So there's a lot of undiscovered country in that, in those DNA matches, too, that could eventually end up somewhere.
• 41:21
  Crista Cowan: Yeah.
• 41:22
  Julie Merrill: But you know, you just have to kind of say, let's try and tell the the story as succinctly as you can tell it without spending an enormous amount of time somewhere else.
• 41:31
  Julie Merrill: That's not really part of the goal.
• 41:33
  Julie Merrill: So I I had to kind of draw the line somewhere.
• 41:36
  Julie Merrill: And we hoped that she would renew again.
• 41:39
  Julie Merrill: And and I don't know if she if she didn't renew.
• 41:43
  Julie Merrill: So I she either held had that enough.
• 41:46
  Julie Merrill: I have had enough that's all I need to know.
• 41:48
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 41:48
  Julie Merrill: Her her biggest thing was she wanted her mom to know.
• 41:51
  Julie Merrill: She wanted her mom to fight to know the story because her mom didn't know her dad.
• 41:56
  Julie Merrill: And she said, now I can tell my kids what happened.
• 42:00
  Julie Merrill: And I don't have to say, I don't know.
• 42:02
  Crista Cowan: Yeah.
• 42:03
  Crista Cowan: Well, as you think about like Simmons and his family in in Georgia, like to be such a prominent family and to like to be raised in that environment.
• 42:13
  Crista Cowan: I think a lot of times when we think about Georgia, we think about the ruralness of Georgia.
• 42:17
  Crista Cowan: We think about, I mean, I have family from Georgia and they're all like dirt poor.
• 42:21
  Crista Cowan: Me too.
• 42:22
  Crista Cowan: Me too.
• 42:23
  Crista Cowan: Um, and so there this family was having a very different life experience and had some political influence and some financial influence.
• 42:31
  Crista Cowan: And and like I don't know, you think about people who are poor wanting to run away and reinvent themselves.
• 42:37
  Crista Cowan: Yeah.
• 42:37
  Crista Cowan: But to have somebody who had all the promise in the world do that, it's really, it's kind of baffling.
• 42:43
  Julie Merrill: It is.
• 42:43
  Julie Merrill: You know, sometimes you you feel like they have everything.
• 42:47
  Julie Merrill: Maybe there was too much pressure to become that next millionaire, to become the the success in business his uncle and his dad had had.
• 42:56
  Julie Merrill: I just think some people just can't stand that pressure and they and they feel like they've got to fix it somehow.
• 43:03
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 43:03
  Julie Merrill: And they don't know how.
• 43:04
  Crista Cowan: Well, maybe someday the rest of his story will turn up.
• 43:08
  Julie Merrill: We hope so.
• 43:08
  Julie Merrill: Maybe.
• 43:09
  Julie Merrill: Hey, if you're out there, if you ever know what happened, you know, maybe this is part of of Jane's family wanting to be out there and tell that story, let me know.
• 43:19
  Julie Merrill: You have my number, right?
• 43:21
  Julie Merrill: So please let me know if you know anything about this story because uh Jane would sure love to know and before she's gone, and and so that she can tell her kids too.
• 43:30
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 43:31
  Crista Cowan: Well, Julie, thank you.
• 43:32
  Crista Cowan: You're welcome.
• 43:33
  Crista Cowan: Such a great story.
• 43:35
  Crista Cowan: And and as you think about the connections to Georgia, both from this story, from your own family, like like what does Georgia mean to you in in this context?
• 43:47
  Julie Merrill: You know, so many times I hear people that say, I don't want to talk about my family.
• 43:52
  Julie Merrill: I don't want to talk about it either.
• 43:54
  Julie Merrill: Something that's too painful.
• 43:56
  Julie Merrill: We were just poor farmers.
• 43:58
  Julie Merrill: That's all we did every day.
• 43:59
  Julie Merrill: We dug the deep the we dug the beets out, you know.
• 44:02
  Julie Merrill: Alf and Stad would say that all we did was dug dig sugar beets.
• 44:05
  Julie Merrill: And I don't have anything to tell you.
• 44:07
  Julie Merrill: Or it was just too painful.
• 44:08
  Julie Merrill: There's I just don't want to talk about it.
• 44:10
  Julie Merrill: And and so you hear these stories, but that's what makes me curious.
• 44:14
  Julie Merrill: Don't tell me you don't want me to know, because then I'm gonna dig.
• 44:17
  Julie Merrill: And then you think, why was it that he didn't want to tell?
• 44:23
  Julie Merrill: And and so that's that's the genealogist in me.
• 44:26
  Julie Merrill: That's that nerd that wants to come out and say, that's that light that never will be dimmed, where I have to find out what happened.
• 44:34
  Julie Merrill: And because they can't talk to me, we have to let them talk.
• 44:39
  Julie Merrill: We have to be able to give that story back to our family.
• 44:42
  Julie Merrill: We have to talk for them.
• 44:44
  Julie Merrill: And whether that means me spending 10 hours here or 100 hours to tell that story, I want to tell that story.
• 44:51
  Julie Merrill: And even if they did something bad, I still want to know.
• 44:54
  Julie Merrill: I've maybe he was that horse thief, or maybe he was that guy who got hung because he did something bad.
• 45:01
  Julie Merrill: I still want to grow from that.
• 45:03
  Julie Merrill: I still want to know that even my family came from this tragedy.
• 45:08
  Julie Merrill: We have come from there.
• 45:09
  Julie Merrill: We've come from that.
• 45:10
  Julie Merrill: That made us who we are.
• 45:12
  Julie Merrill: Who was that person who gave me that musical ability, who gave me that will to keep going, who gave me that that drive to be perfect.
• 45:20
  Julie Merrill: And I want to know who that was.
• 45:23
  Julie Merrill: And and maybe I can still learn from that.
• 45:27
  Julie Merrill: And and I want to learn from that.
• 45:29
  Julie Merrill: And I don't ever want my kids to think they can't tell a story if there's a skeleton in the closet.
• 45:34
  Julie Merrill: I want them to be able to still tell that.
• 45:36
  Julie Merrill: And and even if you were that Georgia, Georgia poor farmer, you have a story to tell.
• 45:41
  Julie Merrill: And and somebody wants to listen.
• 45:44
  Julie Merrill: You know, my my grandma wrote little journals of her all through her teenage years, and she's like, Oh, this is so boring.
• 45:51
  Julie Merrill: I ironed shirts today, I did this today, and I and she drew little drawings out in the cut margins, and she did all these things, and she says, No one will ever want to hear this.
• 46:01
  Julie Merrill: This is so boring.
• 46:03
  Julie Merrill: But I treasure those journals today.
• 46:05
  Julie Merrill: Yeah.
• 46:06
  Julie Merrill: And I say, I want to hear that story.
• 46:08
  Julie Merrill: Don't think no one wants to know.
• 46:11
  Julie Merrill: So please tell your story and don't ever forget that because people will grow from what you've done as well.
• 46:17
  Crista Cowan: So beautifully said.
• 46:18
  Crista Cowan: Thank you.
• 46:19
  Julie Merrill: Welcome.
• 46:20
  Julie Merrill: Studio sponsored by Ancestry.