Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / Across the Sports Betting Landscape with SBA President Joe Maloney

Transcript

Across the Sports Betting Landscape with SBA President Joe Maloney · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, presented by Draft Kings. The Crown
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: is yours. We are an Action Network podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Brandon Kravitz. Back at it with the Prime Minister of
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: DJA Nation Stuckey, our residence statsman Evan Abrams. Kendrick Middleton
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: is off chasing elephants in Africa, Jags Garb and all.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: We wish her her best in her travels. Fascinating weather.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: It's nicer it's been where I am. It's been raining
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: for like ten days straight.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: It looks all right.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, she just texted us she saw an elephants,
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: So things have to be going pretty decent.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Like this is the this is the time of the year.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I actually want the weather to be nice. And I
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: thought it was supposed to be April showers, bring May flowers.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Not it's not this month for me, Like this is
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: the month I want to go out ride my bike
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: and uh, I don't have to be I'm not grinding
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: every second of the day like my college football real
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: grind starts June first, So like these are just days
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: that are getting washed out for me.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: But I guess this is how the peloton made a
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: bunch of money is that you could just indoor bike.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I have a peloton. I just hate I hate it.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I went and biked outside and fell in love with
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: it a couple of years ago. So yeah, I just
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: when I do it, I dread it. And then I'm
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: just on my phone the whole time. Like that's the
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: other thing, Like I'm just on my phone, I'd be
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: looking at lote like so I don't really disconnect from anything.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: But when like you're riding your bike outside, like you
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: you actually do get fresh air. I do disconnect. I'm
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: not on my phone. So it's a meat problem, but
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: What it is.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: Kentucky getting the two seed in the regional baseball. Someone
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: told us in our chat they better watch out for
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Saint Peter's. But other than that, this should be good.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: The Morgantown Regional. Uh maybe I'll maybe I'll go. It's
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: not too far.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: So that's one sport I spend no time I'm betting
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: on as college baseball.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I believe that Calabrese and Colin recorded a preview yesterday
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: and it's live right now, and for all the college
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: football diehards out there that listen to big bets on campus,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: we will be working through our schedule for the conference previews,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: and there are some episodes already out that Breeze and
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Duck have done. So Yeah, exciting things to come. We'll
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: football be here before you know it.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: We have a fascinating show planned today.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Joe Maloney, president of the Sports Betting Alliance, is going
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: to be joining us to talk about the latest news
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: in the sports betting world, legalization and how these sports
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: leagues are handling their most recent controversies. We've got more
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: of the Favorites coming up, our guest joining us in moments.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: We're also going to plant our flag on the Western
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Conference Finals before we wrap the episode. Best place to
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: place that action is over on Draft Kings. Let's talk
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: about them.
• 3:03
  Speaker 6: It's peak NBA playoff season with the conference championships underway,
• 3:06
  Speaker 6: and you know that this is when the details matter most.
• 3:09
  Speaker 6: Our partners at Draftking sports Book are getting you closer
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: to the action every game day the entire playoffs, and
• 3:14
  Speaker 6: right now, all new sportsbook customers who bet us five
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: dollars get one hundred dollars back in bonus bets instantly
• 3:20
  Speaker 6: when you sign up.
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: Using code Favorites.
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: Plus, all customers get a profit boost every day of
• 3:24
  Speaker 6: the NBA Playoffs. So while we're breaking down why a
• 3:26
  Speaker 6: certain play worked or how a defense got attacked, you
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: can get in on the game too. No film session needed,
• 3:31
  Speaker 6: so don't wait to take your shot. New customers can
• 3:33
  Speaker 6: download the Draftking Sportsbook app now and use code Favorites
• 3:36
  Speaker 6: to turn five dollars into one hundred dollars than bonus
• 3:39
  Speaker 6: bets instantly, and all customers get a profit boost every
• 3:42
  Speaker 6: day of the NBA Playoffs at Draft Gangs, Prova Boost
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: and Max Bet. Barry the Crown is yours.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Joe Maloney, President of the SBA, the Sports Betting Alliance,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: joining us today on the Favorites.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Joe, first of all, welcome to the show.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: This is an ever changing landscape of sports betting prediction
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: markets now in the mix.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: You must be a very busy man.
• 4:05
  Speaker 7: Eight years into this exercise, and I think as a
• 4:09
  Speaker 7: as a as a country, we're still moving at a
• 4:11
  Speaker 7: pretty fast pace. And as a I still call myself
• 4:15
  Speaker 7: a gaming gambling interloper.
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: But where my career arc has.
• 4:20
  Speaker 7: Taken me, there's just been. It's been NonStop, that's for sure.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Well, Joe, I know that you are in your base
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: out of DC You're from Massachusetts, right correct, and you
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: worked used to work under Daniel Snyder and formerly the Redskins.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: The first question not to ask you is are you
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: a commander span or a Patriots fan boy.
• 4:42
  Speaker 7: I hope known from my hometown is listening to this,
• 4:45
  Speaker 7: but this was the first Patriots Super Bowl where I
• 4:49
  Speaker 7: just wasn't hanging on every play.
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: You spend three years in the building.
• 4:54
  Speaker 7: Of an NFL franchise and you live in the market
• 4:58
  Speaker 7: where it is the dominant.
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: For sacross professional sports.
• 5:02
  Speaker 7: I'm swept up in commanders right now, and so I've
• 5:07
  Speaker 7: called myself a Commander's fan. Not raising my kids in
• 5:10
  Speaker 7: any particular way. They seem to be gravitating towards various superstars,
• 5:15
  Speaker 7: but I'd call myself a Commander's.
• 5:16
  Speaker 8: Fan right now.
• 5:17
  Speaker 7: Still cheer for the Pats and did cheer for them,
• 5:20
  Speaker 7: but it was an interesting experience. I think fandom is
• 5:23
  Speaker 7: environmental and cultural, and it's nostalgic in certain ways. I
• 5:28
  Speaker 7: took my oldest son to a Fenway Park last August,
• 5:31
  Speaker 7: and I felt this rush of nostalgia come over me
• 5:34
  Speaker 7: to the point where it was just like intensely emotional
• 5:37
  Speaker 7: for me. And I think it just reminded me of
• 5:39
  Speaker 7: my dad bringing me to Fenway Park for the first time.
• 5:42
  Speaker 7: So I said, as a New Year's resolution, I'm going
• 5:44
  Speaker 7: to get back into the Red Sox this year. And
• 5:46
  Speaker 7: that wasn't the best decision just based on how the
• 5:48
  Speaker 7: Red Sox are.
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: Playing right now.
• 5:51
  Speaker 7: But haven't had that moment with the Patriots quite yet.
• 5:55
  Speaker 7: But the Patriots gave a lot to me. I mean
• 5:57
  Speaker 7: Tom Brady's first Super Bowl. I was a senior in college,
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: so it was an epic twenty year run as a
• 6:01
  Speaker 7: Pats fan. So I've embraced Jaden Daniels and the Burgundy
• 6:05
  Speaker 7: and Gold right now.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yeah, you had it as good as probably
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: anyone can over that stretch. But you went from the
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: AGA to the SBA. For those not familiar, just very
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: high level because there's some overlap. What are the main
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: differences in, like what is your new focus compared to
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: what it was when you were with the AGA.
• 6:25
  Speaker 7: Sure in Washington, trust that in anything you do. You know,
• 6:31
  Speaker 7: a listener of this podcast, your profession has an industry
• 6:34
  Speaker 7: association in this town, and its main function is to
• 6:39
  Speaker 7: represent and defend your industry across policy conversations that spanned
• 6:44
  Speaker 7: federal state and local, and the joke I have is
• 6:47
  Speaker 7: probably an association for left handed librarians. So the American
• 6:51
  Speaker 7: Gaming Association is the traditional three decade old association that
• 6:57
  Speaker 7: represented land based casinos and upon the onset of the Internet,
• 7:01
  Speaker 7: began to incorporate more players in the digital and the
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: mobile space. Upon twenty eighteen, in the Supreme Court invalidating
• 7:09
  Speaker 7: the federal ban on states permitting sports wagering, it then
• 7:12
  Speaker 7: welcomed in sports books. So for a period of time
• 7:16
  Speaker 7: since twenty eighteen. In the eight years since twenty eighteen,
• 7:20
  Speaker 7: the American Gaming Association is the largest regulated gaming association
• 7:25
  Speaker 7: representing all corners of the ecosystem and regulated gaming, so
• 7:29
  Speaker 7: that's land based, online, and then.
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: Vendors and suppliers.
• 7:33
  Speaker 7: The Sports Betting Alliance was started in its infancy as
• 7:36
  Speaker 7: well in twenty eighteen, and the function of the Sports
• 7:40
  Speaker 7: Betting Alliance and at the time the four or five
• 7:43
  Speaker 7: largest online sports books, that entity has been historically focused
• 7:48
  Speaker 7: on obtaining legalization in jurisdictions for a variety of reasons.
• 7:53
  Speaker 7: In this country, when gaming is expanded, there's winners and losers.
• 7:59
  Speaker 7: So the American Game Gaming Association wasn't the right outfit
• 8:01
  Speaker 7: to really wave the flag on legalization. So it's odd
• 8:04
  Speaker 7: to say that, but the American Gaming American Gaming Association
• 8:08
  Speaker 7: the AGA, they actually don't fight for legalization, but once
• 8:10
  Speaker 7: it's legal, they promote and protect it. So what was
• 8:15
  Speaker 7: necessary in the market was an entity to go and
• 8:17
  Speaker 7: get legalization done purely for online sportsbooks and their opportunity.
• 8:22
  Speaker 7: As you guys are probably aware, the earliest days of
• 8:24
  Speaker 7: legalization and jurisdiction had tethered licenses to land based casinos,
• 8:28
  Speaker 7: had market access deals with professional teams. In fact, when
• 8:31
  Speaker 7: I was at the NFL and legalization was happening in
• 8:34
  Speaker 7: the Mid Atlantic here, you know, I was forging market
• 8:38
  Speaker 7: access deals with different online sports books based on where
• 8:42
  Speaker 7: we had a home marketing area territory per the NFL
• 8:45
  Speaker 7: with the Commanders, which was DC, Maryland and Virginia. So
• 8:48
  Speaker 7: my fluency really came from that experience on the NFL side.
• 8:51
  Speaker 7: So the Sports Betting Alliance continues to focus on expanding
• 8:55
  Speaker 7: the map of jurisdictions for legal regulated online sports wagering,
• 8:59
  Speaker 7: which is only in already one.
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: States right now throughout the US.
• 9:02
  Speaker 7: And then we're also working to expand I Gaming online casino.
• 9:07
  Speaker 7: In additional jurisdictions, and then the third core objective of
• 9:09
  Speaker 7: the SBA, once it's legal, we really sort of describe
• 9:14
  Speaker 7: the benefits of legalization and a given jurisdiction, and then
• 9:17
  Speaker 7: we defend against more restrictions as well.
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: Got it.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Now, One of the I guess differences is how the
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: viewpoint on prediction markets. I believe SPA doesn't have an
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: official stance, but some of your partners have you gone
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: into that space, some haven't. I just I'm curious, just
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: get your thoughts on kind of a two part question.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: One do you believe you know with prediction markets it
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: can potentially speed up the race to legalization in some
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: of these states that aren't legal yet. But on the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: other side of the coin is it could it potentially
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: harm some of the legal players by getting involved there,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: depending on what legislation comes down the line.
• 9:58
  Speaker 7: Great questions, and this is these are the questions I
• 10:02
  Speaker 7: get asked every time I walk into a state capital
• 10:05
  Speaker 7: or every time I trek down to Capitol Hill here
• 10:07
  Speaker 7: in DC. So yes, three of the five members of
• 10:12
  Speaker 7: the SBA, FanDuel, DraftKings and Fanatics have launched prediction market
• 10:17
  Speaker 7: platforms and dating back to the end of last year
• 10:21
  Speaker 7: that caused a bit of a rift in the industry,
• 10:23
  Speaker 7: so those members left the AGA by virtue of.
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: Those business decisions.
• 10:29
  Speaker 7: It does not mean the Sports Betting Alliance has a
• 10:31
  Speaker 7: position on prediction markets, but yes, we do actually answer
• 10:35
  Speaker 7: that question in the affirmative. The first one, this should
• 10:40
  Speaker 7: boost momentum for the legalized, regulated sportsbook product at the
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: state level, and the reasons for that are really abundantly clear,
• 10:48
  Speaker 7: and we're actually seeing a policy response to this, and
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: it's reflected in jurisdictions like Minnesota this past legislative session
• 10:55
  Speaker 7: and even Georgia this past legislative session. We're nowslation. Stakeholders
• 11:00
  Speaker 7: in these states say, oh my gosh, are you kidding me?
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: So all of our.
• 11:05
  Speaker 7: Illegal gambling laws mean nothing because there's this federally regulated
• 11:09
  Speaker 7: platform that's coming in. It's advertising in our states. It's
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: allowing for the trading of contracts of anyone eighteen plus
• 11:17
  Speaker 7: with an Internet connection, and none of that revenue is coming.
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: Back to the state.
• 11:23
  Speaker 7: So once we have these conversations with these stakeholders in
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: these jurisdictions where it's not yet legal, yes, it generates
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: a lot more momentum. Did we get it across the
• 11:33
  Speaker 7: finish line in those two states this year. No, but
• 11:36
  Speaker 7: we definitely measurably.
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: Move the ball forward.
• 11:39
  Speaker 7: And so yes, it's becoming a momentum generator in a
• 11:44
  Speaker 7: lot of jurisdictions. It's still a multi stakeholder dialogue, as
• 11:48
  Speaker 7: you guys are all aware of in states like California
• 11:51
  Speaker 7: and in states like Texas, we.
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: Have a lot more work to do.
• 11:54
  Speaker 7: But the onset of prediction market platforms has just it's
• 11:58
  Speaker 7: just been so dynamic, right, and as these dominant companies,
• 12:04
  Speaker 7: particularly the top two, have taken on investments and have
• 12:07
  Speaker 7: these higher and higher valuations, where's that going to go.
• 12:10
  Speaker 7: It's going to go into marketing, it's going to go
• 12:12
  Speaker 7: into advertising. It's going to start hitting people over the
• 12:15
  Speaker 7: head in places like Minneapolis and in Atlanta, and it
• 12:19
  Speaker 7: will drive a policy response. Our hope is the policy
• 12:23
  Speaker 7: response is, let's established and erect a regulatory framework for
• 12:28
  Speaker 7: mobile sports wagering in our state. We have to guard
• 12:30
  Speaker 7: against a policy response being, oh, let's tax and regulate them,
• 12:34
  Speaker 7: because it doesn't serve the purpose of the state regulated
• 12:37
  Speaker 7: sports book. The vast majority of your listeners love the
• 12:40
  Speaker 7: sports book model. You've heard Jason Robbins talk about this
• 12:43
  Speaker 7: on earnings calls. You've heard Peter Jackson with Flutter talk
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: about this on earnings calls. The state regulated sportsbook product
• 12:50
  Speaker 7: is far superior for today's sports fans. To the second
• 12:54
  Speaker 7: part of your question, the industry term is cannibalization.
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: What threats does it present?
• 13:00
  Speaker 7: It varies and we have the benefit of three of
• 13:03
  Speaker 7: my five members hop on quarterly earnings calls and answer
• 13:06
  Speaker 7: those questions from analysts, and it's minimal to nonexistent. What
• 13:12
  Speaker 7: you're seeing some executives speak about, though, is it's basically
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: costing more money to do business in some legalized jurisdictions.
• 13:20
  Speaker 7: Meaning Adam Greenblatt with BETMGM, the CEO of BETAMGM, said
• 13:24
  Speaker 7: my cost per acquisition.
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: Has gone up significantly.
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: I think he said it went from three hundred dollars
• 13:28
  Speaker 7: CPA to five hundred dollars. That's that's definitely a fact.
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: It's not cannibalization necessarily, but it certainly is increasing costs.
• 13:38
  Speaker 7: And I'm sure the prediction market platforms would say, hey,
• 13:40
  Speaker 7: this is needed competition, and I don't necessarily need to
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: spend time responding to that, but it's certainly a far
• 13:47
  Speaker 7: more dynamic competitive environment and if you're sitting in a
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: legalized jurisdiction and you're a regulator, you spend all this
• 13:53
  Speaker 7: time to migrate folks out of illegal and unregulated settings
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: and to try to repatriate them back into a legal
• 14:00
  Speaker 7: and regulated setting.
• 14:02
  Speaker 8: You've got to now.
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: Begin to think about.
• 14:04
  Speaker 7: Okay, there's a whole other competitive force here that I
• 14:07
  Speaker 7: never contemplated, or the statute never contemplated when elected officials
• 14:11
  Speaker 7: passed sports wagering in our state. Now I've got to
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: think about that. It's not just the cease and desist
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: to bravada anymore. It's like, Okay, now I might need
• 14:20
  Speaker 7: to work with our legislative counterparts to how to circumvent
• 14:23
  Speaker 7: the entry of these prediction market platforms.
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: So there's a lot.
• 14:27
  Speaker 7: Of competitive forces to think about now in the legalized jurisdictions.
• 14:30
  Speaker 7: For example, there's a movement to remove prop bets from
• 14:34
  Speaker 7: the betting catalog in certain jurisdictions.
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: Okay, well, what does that do.
• 14:37
  Speaker 8: Well, as you all know.
• 14:39
  Speaker 7: We can go on to Calshie, or we can go
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: on to polymarket and find some prop markets, not all,
• 14:44
  Speaker 7: but we can certainly find some, and then the ability
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: to combo those is particularly eliminated right now, but I
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: think we can all agree they're going to be investing.
• 14:52
  Speaker 8: More and more and to deliver more and more liquidity.
• 14:54
  Speaker 7: Into those combo markets and some of the more exotic
• 14:57
  Speaker 7: prop markets that might exist in a state right now
• 15:00
  Speaker 7: related sportsbook model. So these competitive forces are here. They're
• 15:03
  Speaker 7: not going anywhere until the Supreme Court makes another decision
• 15:06
  Speaker 7: somewhere down the line on sports event contracts. But that's
• 15:09
  Speaker 7: what makes this industry a lot of fun to work
• 15:11
  Speaker 7: in right now.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: If we were to go clean across the board and
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: the entire United States legalized sports betting, we still have
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: some big states Dock. You mentioned California, Texas being the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: notable ones that have not allowed legal sports betting. If
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: we were one hundred percent, would prediction markets still have life.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Or would sports betters just.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, most people that are listening to this, they
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: have a select amount of money they're willing to wager with,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: and you just can't spread it out to five or
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: six different places. Would we still see prediction markets as
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: viable products if sports betting was legal across the country.
• 15:55
  Speaker 7: They would obviously, I would have to think that they're
• 16:00
  Speaker 7: their volume. And however, they decide to define volume would
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: be affected dramatically. I still think the investment thesis is
• 16:08
  Speaker 7: certainly there with prediction markets, culture markets, financial markets, politics.
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: None of those things can take place in a state
• 16:18
  Speaker 7: regulated sportsbook setting because we very clearly define it as
• 16:22
  Speaker 7: sports wagering things on sporting events. So there would still
• 16:26
  Speaker 7: be a massive investment opportunity that I honestly and truly
• 16:29
  Speaker 7: believe that really smart people that are driving these valuations
• 16:33
  Speaker 7: higher and higher for these prediction market players see this
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: long term financialization of everything as an opportunity with these
• 16:41
  Speaker 7: specific companies that are offering these products. So but setting aside,
• 16:46
  Speaker 7: you know, eighty percent of the volume, you know, particularly
• 16:49
  Speaker 7: when it comes to sports and parking, it entirely in
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: state regulated sports books because it's a magic wand has
• 16:55
  Speaker 7: been waived and it's now legal everywhere, would certainly affect
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: their ability to compete.
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: For a specific type of player or trader.
• 17:04
  Speaker 7: And you're seeing the executives that represent that lead excuse me,
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: companies within the SBA really speak to that, which is
• 17:12
  Speaker 7: their confidence that the state regulated sportsbook model is truly
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: the place for sports fans. It's whereas you said very clearly, Brandon,
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: It's just someone has a set amount of money that
• 17:22
  Speaker 7: they're willing to wager on any given day, week, or month,
• 17:26
  Speaker 7: and it increases their engagement.
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: Of an athlete or a sport that they love.
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: It's a very different feeling and a very different intention
• 17:34
  Speaker 7: inside of a prediction market when you're trading a contract.
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: And so I'm not here to appign on what the
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: opportunity is or isn't, but from what we've seen across
• 17:43
  Speaker 7: the data and what we've seen in the policy, what
• 17:46
  Speaker 7: we've heard in the policy conversations, there's there's a very
• 17:50
  Speaker 7: very big playing field still for prediction markets, no matter
• 17:53
  Speaker 7: what the Supreme Court says in a couple of years,
• 17:55
  Speaker 7: or how fast states that aren't yet legal choose to
• 17:59
  Speaker 7: choose to legalize and regulate the sports wagering product.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: It might sound counterintuitive to explain this to someone that
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: athletes and betters getting caught for suspicious activity is actually
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: good and it shows that the system and the systems
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: that are in.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Place are working.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: How do you explain that to somebody that when they
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: see these headlines, when they see the Terry Rose years,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: when they see the Brendan Soresby's, that these aren't huge
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: red flags that we need to shut down legal sports betting.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: It's that these the apparatus that's in place is actually working.
• 18:32
  Speaker 7: It's so hard and it's not made easier that these
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: are just like really tough news cycles.
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: It's I say this all the time.
• 18:40
  Speaker 7: It's a sad day for sports fans when these incidences
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: have come.
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: Up, and.
• 18:45
  Speaker 7: It's just hard for the person walking around that sees
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: a sports betting advertisement and might not love it to
• 18:52
  Speaker 7: then think, how does legalization, you know, prevent something like this.
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: How is this not the fault.
• 18:58
  Speaker 7: Of legalization of sports betting in this country. It's really difficult,
• 19:04
  Speaker 7: and it's a mountain we continued to climb. I saw
• 19:07
  Speaker 7: data that the American Gaming Association put out in twenty eighteen,
• 19:12
  Speaker 7: and it's said at that time over thirty percent of
• 19:15
  Speaker 7: Americans thought that legalization would bring higher and heightened risks
• 19:20
  Speaker 7: to integrity. Over the years, we've gotten that number down.
• 19:24
  Speaker 7: We actually drove it down to about twenty twenty three percent,
• 19:27
  Speaker 7: low twenties. It's back up to thirty percent, right, And
• 19:31
  Speaker 7: that's that's just an acknowledgement that these stories that splash
• 19:34
  Speaker 7: across the front page of the newspaper that, you know, again,
• 19:38
  Speaker 7: events that have the director of the FBI standing next
• 19:42
  Speaker 7: to the Southern District of New York US attorney and
• 19:46
  Speaker 7: announcing these indictments. It drives a news cycle that's really
• 19:49
  Speaker 7: really difficult to overcome. So I mean, look, it's hard
• 19:53
  Speaker 7: to explain the role that we play. It's important that
• 19:56
  Speaker 7: we do that work. And ultimately, what we see last
• 20:00
  Speaker 7: week in the Senate hearing here in Washington where they
• 20:03
  Speaker 7: examine this issue specifically, the policy stakeholders, the regulators, and
• 20:09
  Speaker 7: the elected officials, they understand it.
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: They do.
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: They know that there's a cop on the beat now
• 20:15
  Speaker 7: and that you can't police what you cannot see. So
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: they're holding us to account, ensuring that integrity monitoring tools
• 20:23
  Speaker 7: are being embraced, ensuring that there's collaborative information sharing that's
• 20:27
  Speaker 7: happening right now with you know, across sports books and
• 20:31
  Speaker 7: law enforcement, and so they're able to see that. And
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: I think these announced indictments or policy violations do prompt
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: that scrutiny, and we've got to meet that moment and
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: describe it and then talk about the things that we do.
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: And importantly, that work does happen.
• 20:46
  Speaker 8: It's just the vast.
• 20:48
  Speaker 7: Majority of your listeners and those across the country read
• 20:50
  Speaker 7: about it when something bad happens. But the three of
• 20:53
  Speaker 7: us know these things have been happening long before the
• 20:56
  Speaker 7: Supreme Court decided to invalidate a federal ban. Got you know,
• 21:00
  Speaker 7: the famous incidents like you know, the Chicago Black Sox
• 21:04
  Speaker 7: and Pete Rose and Paul Horning and the BC College
• 21:07
  Speaker 7: Boston College basketball team, But we've had any number of
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: instances since twenty eighteen that have actually just been policy violations.
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: When I worked for.
• 21:16
  Speaker 7: The Commanders and they announced the new NFL commercial gambling policy,
• 21:20
  Speaker 7: there were a lot of rules. You know, we didn't
• 21:22
  Speaker 7: care if John Allen wanted to bet on you know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 7: the Crimson Tide, his favorite college football team that he
• 21:28
  Speaker 7: played for. But for whatever reason, we cared if he
• 21:30
  Speaker 7: did it at the team facility. We cared that he
• 21:33
  Speaker 7: did it on the bus ride to the game, the
• 21:37
  Speaker 7: away game. We cared if he did it on the plane,
• 21:40
  Speaker 7: But we didn't care if he bet five bucks on
• 21:42
  Speaker 7: the Crimson Tide to beat Auburn, if he did it
• 21:45
  Speaker 7: from the comforts of his own home. So what you
• 21:47
  Speaker 7: saw were like policy violations because players didn't understand the rules.
• 21:51
  Speaker 8: Well, what's happened.
• 21:52
  Speaker 7: Since then, the NFL has had three back to back
• 21:55
  Speaker 7: to back seasons where there's been no gambling policy violations. Okay,
• 22:00
  Speaker 7: that's because they've really invested in education. Player development teams
• 22:03
  Speaker 7: are now equipped to talk to the rookies. Okay, there
• 22:06
  Speaker 7: are these rules now. Okay, there's information that cannot be shared.
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: Here's the stuff that you have access to that you
• 22:11
  Speaker 7: cannot talk about or discuss with anybody outside of the facility.
• 22:15
  Speaker 7: If you want to do it, here's where you're allowed
• 22:16
  Speaker 7: to do it. Other leagues have still playing a little
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: bit of catch up on that, which is why you
• 22:21
  Speaker 7: see the Tikopia Marcano example. And now, of course something
• 22:26
  Speaker 7: that's been splashed across the pages is student athletes at
• 22:29
  Speaker 7: the collegiate level, there's a blanket prohibition, right, and the
• 22:33
  Speaker 7: NCAA considered allowing and relaxing that policy, but it's not
• 22:36
  Speaker 7: backed by their conferences, so there's still this blanket prohibition.
• 22:40
  Speaker 7: So even if you are twenty one plus playing a
• 22:42
  Speaker 7: college sport, any sport of any kind, you cannot bat.
• 22:46
  Speaker 7: So what's happening now is NCAA goes into business with
• 22:50
  Speaker 7: integrity monitoring partners.
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: Lists are shared with sportsbooks.
• 22:54
  Speaker 7: We're able to see this, we're able to collaborate, but
• 22:56
  Speaker 7: it's just important that people understand post legalization, there are
• 23:00
  Speaker 7: rules now and you've just got to follow the rules.
• 23:03
  Speaker 7: So we're seeing some of those policy violations and those
• 23:05
  Speaker 7: rules matter. We're in ato turnance phase and hopefully we
• 23:08
  Speaker 7: begin to see less of those. And I think the
• 23:10
  Speaker 7: NFL is a good example of that.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, two parter than what do safeguards look like for
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the sports books that are trying to make sure that
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: they keep out the bad eggs and the folks that
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: have insider information and are using that to their advantage,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: suspicious activity and all of that. What safeguards are in place?
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: And how different is it when you're talking about a
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: professional sports league and college athletics.
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: So it's less and less different.
• 23:40
  Speaker 7: And I think the gap between professional and collegiate is
• 23:43
  Speaker 7: really really narrowing. And that's because the NCAA and its
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: conferences are realizing that they have these duties and obligations.
• 23:51
  Speaker 7: They've chosen not to generate revenue off of this category
• 23:54
  Speaker 7: the same way professional leagues have. When a professional league
• 23:58
  Speaker 7: goes into a partnership with aficial sports book, yes, that's
• 24:01
  Speaker 7: a revenue creation opportunity in a revenue vehicle for the
• 24:05
  Speaker 7: league specifically, but it also ensures that there are data
• 24:09
  Speaker 7: feeds that are approved that are going from the league's
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: ip the games into the sports books that informs odds
• 24:16
  Speaker 7: making and all of the important work that sort of undergirds.
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: The actual sports book.
• 24:22
  Speaker 7: There's also the use that sportsbooks can have to use
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: marks and logos and such, Okay, but most importantly it
• 24:28
  Speaker 7: incensed the information sharing to ensure that there is a
• 24:31
  Speaker 7: very clear symbiotic relationship with the product, both the product
• 24:36
  Speaker 7: that the league prizes its own IP leagues, games, etc.
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: And then our products, because if people think the competition
• 24:42
  Speaker 7: is rigged, they're not going to buy the jersey, they're
• 24:45
  Speaker 7: not going to buy the ticket, they're not going to
• 24:46
  Speaker 7: go to the game, and they're certainly not going.
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: To play some best.
• 24:49
  Speaker 7: So the difference now is the NCAA has really come
• 24:52
  Speaker 7: to realize that, Okay, we're not in the revenue generation space,
• 24:56
  Speaker 7: but there's still exposure to the universities, institutions and the
• 25:00
  Speaker 7: student athletes themselves. They have an integrity monitoring partner as well.
• 25:05
  Speaker 7: They have a data feed that they provide to sports
• 25:07
  Speaker 7: books in exchange for information sharing and other important conditions.
• 25:12
  Speaker 7: So what you're seeing now, of course, as conferences are
• 25:15
  Speaker 7: mandating injury release information, that's important because it informs the
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: odds making. It informs how the sports books can react,
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: and that way, when you see line shift, there's nothing
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: the fary is going on. We're able to take these
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: data feeds understand that a line moved because the star
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: quarterback hurt his arm in practice, and there's not any
• 25:37
  Speaker 7: attempt to try to manipulate that information in any way,
• 25:40
  Speaker 7: shape or form.
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: So this is just an example of that gap.
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: Really really narrowing, Brandon, and that's really important because it
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: will heighten integrity. It strengthens the commitments to integrity, and
• 25:53
  Speaker 7: then there's less and less conjecture or you know, any
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: of these sort of Twitter conversations that happen about a
• 25:59
  Speaker 7: line movement and people start pointing fingers and then suddenly
• 26:03
  Speaker 7: kids get dragged online while the person's actually playing the game.
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: So we've just got to work hard to eliminate that
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: type of speculation and further and like double down on
• 26:13
  Speaker 7: these commitments to integrity, because that's what's happening. I mean, gentlemen,
• 26:16
  Speaker 7: you guys know this, but the amount of data optimization
• 26:19
  Speaker 7: and the amount of algorithmic you know, commitments and technology
• 26:23
  Speaker 7: that's that is put forward, you know, to monitor risk
• 26:26
  Speaker 7: right now in these in these betting pools is just
• 26:28
  Speaker 7: absolutely dramatic. And some of our critics are like, oh,
• 26:31
  Speaker 7: how is that even possible? It's like, okay, well, like,
• 26:34
  Speaker 7: how is the development of like four lms that dominate
• 26:36
  Speaker 7: our lives possible? It's possible because of technology, and so ultimately,
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: these integrity monitoring tools that you know, our companies have
• 26:43
  Speaker 7: developed or other companies have developed, and our vendors with
• 26:45
  Speaker 7: our companies, it's just scanning at such a dramatic scale
• 26:51
  Speaker 7: the amount of money, the amount of wagers, and then
• 26:54
  Speaker 7: the odds movements that it's just it can immediately set
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: flags off. When those flags go off, you inform the league.
• 27:01
  Speaker 7: The league can conduct an investigation. When they see criminal wrongdoing,
• 27:04
  Speaker 7: they can tag in law enforcement. When law enforcement gets
• 27:06
  Speaker 7: tagged in, they call the sports book. The sportsbook picks
• 27:08
  Speaker 7: up the phone. This happens because of legalization. Right, but
• 27:13
  Speaker 7: look how long it took me to explain all of that.
• 27:15
  Speaker 7: Imagine trying to do that in a news cycle, right,
• 27:18
  Speaker 7: Imagine trying to do that in a fifteen minute meeting
• 27:20
  Speaker 7: on Capitol.
• 27:20
  Speaker 8: Hill or in you know, Atlanta or at Albany.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: And these state capitols where I've been.
• 27:25
  Speaker 7: The regulators get it. That's why they're mandating these tools.
• 27:28
  Speaker 7: The leagues get it. Amateur sports organizations get it. It's
• 27:31
  Speaker 7: really important to the product right now.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Well, Pivoting to something you mentioned earlier about texts regulation
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: and this talk about trying to explain something to people.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: You know you have if you go to your website,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I think if you're in North Carolina you can sign something.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: There's a pre made letter against you know, an increase
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: in tax. I think people in Illinois would be very
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: concerned with this, and especially Chicago. What are what is
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the SBA doing to help limit tax Is it as
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: simple as going to politicians and showing them, hey, this
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: is what a lack for curve is, or like, is
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: there a call to action for people to try something
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: that they can do to limit this from happening.
• 28:13
  Speaker 7: We would not pretend to be the voice of the
• 28:16
  Speaker 7: American legal regulated, American sports better. We represent five companies,
• 28:20
  Speaker 7: and those five companies pursue those three objectives I've discussed
• 28:24
  Speaker 7: at the top but of that third leg, this defending
• 28:29
  Speaker 7: against market restrictions is really really important. States are starved
• 28:33
  Speaker 7: for cash. Some states can run a surplus and manage
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: and do all of the important actuarreal and financial accounting
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: to keep themselves in good stead maintain any plus bond rating.
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: Other states struggle with that.
• 28:47
  Speaker 7: But ultimately, right now, given sort of the national economy,
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: states are experiencing budget shortfalls, and so annually we are
• 28:54
  Speaker 7: always seen as a revenue generation vehicle unfortunately for some
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: state budget mine.
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: So we are always out in front.
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: Here communicating that this is a competitive regulated framework that you,
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: you legislator X or legislator Y, invested the time to
• 29:13
  Speaker 7: erect and to help establish, and the regulator is instituting
• 29:18
  Speaker 7: and holding us.
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: To account and maintaining compliance. It's competitive.
• 29:22
  Speaker 7: There are multiple actors within this regulated environment. But then
• 29:26
  Speaker 7: right next door to us, there are digital storefronts, illegal,
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: unregulated or federally regulated, and they're not subject to any
• 29:35
  Speaker 7: of these regulatory commitments or tax obligations, which means they
• 29:40
  Speaker 7: don't have to hire attorneys, they don't have to hire accountants,
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: they don't have to hire lawyers, they don't have to
• 29:45
  Speaker 7: hire responsible gaming professionals that make sure that tools and
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: toolkits are developed so folks can use any types of
• 29:52
  Speaker 7: wager limits, time on app limits, deposit limits, etc.
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: They can just offer a pure sportsbook product.
• 29:57
  Speaker 8: What does that mean.
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: It means they have fewer costs. It means they can
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: probably offer a better price. So one, we've got to
• 30:03
  Speaker 7: do the work informing them of the competitive environment that
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: exists outside of the regulatory frameworks. And then second we've
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: got to show them experience we're seeing across other states,
• 30:13
  Speaker 7: and Illinois is a perfect example. I mean, we are
• 30:17
  Speaker 7: seeing month over month declines in number of bets. People
• 30:22
  Speaker 7: are choosing to take their business elsewhere. Now Illinois is
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: surrounded now on all sides except for Wisconsin, but they're
• 30:29
  Speaker 7: going to start here pretty soon.
• 30:31
  Speaker 8: With live, legal, regulated.
• 30:34
  Speaker 7: Online sports wagering. So we're seeing a ton of border
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: movement in those states. And we can do that because
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: we geolocate, so we know where people are pomping on
• 30:43
  Speaker 7: and popping off, and so that's important. And then two,
• 30:47
  Speaker 7: you know, there's data from any number of financial houses
• 30:51
  Speaker 7: and bank analysts that are actually noting Chicago is one
• 30:54
  Speaker 7: of the most fertile grounds for prediction market platforms right now.
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: I mean when you consider that the volume of betting
• 31:01
  Speaker 7: activity declined in January and February excuse me, December, January
• 31:08
  Speaker 7: and February in Illinois at a moment when this sports
• 31:13
  Speaker 7: obsessed state and their beloved NFL franchise was making a
• 31:17
  Speaker 7: playoff run. That is that is astonishing. I know in
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: this market two years ago where I am and the
• 31:24
  Speaker 7: DMV as we call it, we saw betting volumes grow
• 31:28
  Speaker 7: dramatically when Jaden Daniels was making.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: His historic run in his rookie season.
• 31:33
  Speaker 7: So the fact that a Caleb Williams led team that
• 31:35
  Speaker 7: was exciting to watch saw decline in betting activity, it's
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: clearly the effects of these per wager fees that Illinois instituted.
• 31:46
  Speaker 7: And so you know, again it's we have the benefit
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: of pointing to examples like Illinois, and so when Michigan
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: announced a per wazer tax hike, immediately shot down. When
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: Arizona's governor announced an effective, you know, one hundred and
• 32:01
  Speaker 7: fifty percent plus tax on osb's, it was immediately shot down.
• 32:06
  Speaker 7: People are quickly learning that there's some dramatic effects to
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: something that they've invested so much time in doing which
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: is erecting a regulated framework for their own state's residents
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: that has consumer protections and drives tax revenue back.
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: To the state. It's constant, I'd be honest with you.
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: It's constant.
• 32:22
  Speaker 7: It comes up quite a bit, and this is where
• 32:24
  Speaker 7: we've got to continue to tell the story of our industry,
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: what the business margins actually look like.
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: It's all right in front of folks, but you'd be surprised.
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: There's not too many elected stay called us that understand
• 32:33
  Speaker 7: what hold means right, and so they gravitate towards catchy headlines.
• 32:39
  Speaker 7: They see the handle increasing right nationally and they're.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: Like, oh, well, we can just go after these guys.
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: So again, we don't confront it with any antagonism. We
• 32:48
  Speaker 7: view it as an opportunity to say, Okay, this is
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: what the business model is. Here's how we're responsive, here's
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: how we're compliant. Here's all the duties and obligations that
• 32:55
  Speaker 7: we meet. This isn't the place for a tax hike.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Pivoting to another state and circling back to what you said, Brandon,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: would prediction markets still exist. They would still be very
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: attractive to the biggest betters to circumvent limits no matter what.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: So Massachusetts has done some interesting things with limits and
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: the conversations on both ends right like big limits for
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: losing betters, small limits for winning betters. Do you think
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: there's any momentum there? Do you have any thoughts on
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: what Massachusetts is doing in regards to limits.
• 33:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, So all our member companies participated in the proceeding
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: that the Chair Maynard and the MGC put forward on limiting,
• 33:35
  Speaker 7: and ultimately the outcome landed on limiting is a thing
• 33:40
  Speaker 7: that probably has to happen in order for there to
• 33:43
  Speaker 7: be this legal, regulated.
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: Option in our state.
• 33:46
  Speaker 7: But we're going to require you to disclose to those
• 33:48
  Speaker 7: that you choose to limit with I think forty eight
• 33:51
  Speaker 7: hours notice and the business reason as to why we're
• 33:54
  Speaker 7: going to be compliant. Our companies will be compliant with
• 33:57
  Speaker 7: that directive from the MGC. I think we'll see how
• 34:01
  Speaker 7: that how that ultimately plays out. Other state you know,
• 34:04
  Speaker 7: regulators and commissions have gone through the investigative work and
• 34:08
  Speaker 7: determined that it's nothing they need to be.
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: Terribly concerned about.
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: And state of Wyoming, they determined that it affected such
• 34:14
  Speaker 7: a fraction of the accounts and typically some of the
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: accounts were those that were deploying surrogates and or court
• 34:20
  Speaker 7: siding and the like, and so they didn't necessarily feel
• 34:22
  Speaker 7: the need to take the time to promulgate a regulatory
• 34:26
  Speaker 7: proceeding around it. Limiting is not going to go away
• 34:30
  Speaker 7: as an issue, and I think it really is two
• 34:33
  Speaker 7: things that you know, we can do a better job of. One,
• 34:37
  Speaker 7: we've got to continue to communicate this and this isn't
• 34:39
  Speaker 7: just limited to the limiting issue. We've got to continue
• 34:42
  Speaker 7: to pronounce that this is an activity that is for
• 34:46
  Speaker 7: entertainment and not a wealth creation exercise. And I think
• 34:49
  Speaker 7: the advertising is really actually beginning to shift on this
• 34:52
  Speaker 7: a little bit, and we're seeing it as some of
• 34:54
  Speaker 7: the dominant players. And even then, the advertising is actually
• 34:57
  Speaker 7: decreasing about nine percent year over year. The buy are
• 35:00
  Speaker 7: becoming a little bit more efficient, and I think you're
• 35:02
  Speaker 7: seeing the market dynamics move in such a way that
• 35:04
  Speaker 7: the advertising isn't as.
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: Consuming as it once was.
• 35:08
  Speaker 7: So one, that's that's really important, because two, it should
• 35:11
  Speaker 7: actually reinforce that limiting is something that has to happen
• 35:15
  Speaker 7: pursuant to some of the business objectives that exist within
• 35:18
  Speaker 7: these legal regulated frameworks, and that ultimately winning better. Being limited,
• 35:24
  Speaker 7: you know, should be something that becomes more acceptable from
• 35:28
  Speaker 7: the policy standpoint. It might naturally never become acceptable, you know,
• 35:33
  Speaker 7: from a cultural standpoint amongst the betting community.
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: And that's something.
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: That we've got to continue to communicate to the vast
• 35:40
  Speaker 7: majority of our customers, the ninety nine point nine percent
• 35:43
  Speaker 7: that are not limited, you know why, they should have
• 35:46
  Speaker 7: no reason to be concerned whatsoever. But it's not an
• 35:49
  Speaker 7: issue that's going to go away. I think the regulatory
• 35:52
  Speaker 7: the regulators in each of these states are going to
• 35:54
  Speaker 7: continue to look at this. The Massachusetts exercise will be
• 35:57
  Speaker 7: a really interesting example. I noticed over the weekend, the
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: sort of rain soaked weekend where I just stared at
• 36:04
  Speaker 7: my phone all weekend. I saw a couple of Twitter
• 36:06
  Speaker 7: handles post a communication from regulated sportsbooks in Massachusetts.
• 36:11
  Speaker 8: About you know why they're limited.
• 36:12
  Speaker 7: And yeah, there was certainly a frenzy on that topic
• 36:15
  Speaker 7: in one corner of X over the weekend here. So
• 36:19
  Speaker 7: it'll be interesting to see how it's exported, is the
• 36:21
  Speaker 7: term i'd use across other states, and certainly I think
• 36:25
  Speaker 7: as the federal government, as Congress continues to take a
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: look at, you know, this ecosystem in our industry. Eight
• 36:32
  Speaker 7: years post the PASPA ban being lifted, I think this
• 36:36
  Speaker 7: will continue to be a topic, you know, even at
• 36:38
  Speaker 7: the federal level.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well we're talking about regulation, federal level taxes. So
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: I've seen in this industry of there's things can change
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: quickly and you know, before we know it, there'll be
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: another election. Here just from your perspective, how much of
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: your year, like in twenty twenty six, and does the
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: SBA spend you know, thinking about the future or is
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: it just like, here's our look, we can't control what's
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: going to happen if there is an administration change and
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: what that's going to mean. We just have to focus
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: on what our three you know, your three key objectives are,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: do that work now or do you have some forward
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: looking like okay, if this happens and some some different plans.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: How do you think about that?
• 37:22
  Speaker 7: It's it's all long term strategic value over the course
• 37:26
  Speaker 7: of any any any given period of time.
• 37:29
  Speaker 8: So I mean, really, what what.
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: The SBA is in the business of doing across those
• 37:33
  Speaker 7: three objectives. I think the overarching goal is to you know,
• 37:37
  Speaker 7: if I were to put on my sort of graduate
• 37:39
  Speaker 7: degree in government and political science, it's it's the accumulation
• 37:43
  Speaker 7: of political capital, right Like, we've got to build sustainable
• 37:47
  Speaker 7: and durable, long term relationships across elected stakeholders, across the
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: regulatory stakeholders, across the media, and then across our customers.
• 37:57
  Speaker 7: And we've got to do that, and we've got to
• 37:59
  Speaker 7: build truck and we've got to build credibility so that
• 38:02
  Speaker 7: we can become an industry that is viewed as a
• 38:05
  Speaker 7: place that provides consumer protection and delivers tax revenue period
• 38:10
  Speaker 7: full stop. And so you know, we're not doing our
• 38:13
  Speaker 7: jobs if we get too caught up in the short
• 38:17
  Speaker 7: term sort of value and sometimes pleasing dopamine hit of
• 38:23
  Speaker 7: like dunking on someone you know who's tax hike we defeat.
• 38:28
  Speaker 7: That doesn't that doesn't engender the trust and credibility that
• 38:31
  Speaker 7: I think we need as an industry. We've got to
• 38:33
  Speaker 7: meet those difficult moments and confront them, you know, and
• 38:36
  Speaker 7: and and sort of negotiate and or engage in a
• 38:39
  Speaker 7: sort of very credible manner. But we think about this
• 38:42
  Speaker 7: stuff constantly, like we constantly game out what a change
• 38:46
  Speaker 7: in a governorship could mean, what a change in a
• 38:48
  Speaker 7: presidency can mean, and certainly what a change in Congress
• 38:52
  Speaker 7: can mean and how we can move right now to
• 38:55
  Speaker 7: account for you know, the importance of relationships across both
• 38:59
  Speaker 7: place call isisles and geographically obviously, and not only that,
• 39:04
  Speaker 7: I'd say, I mean, the two largest expansion opportunities of
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: the state regulated sportsbook model are going to be California
• 39:11
  Speaker 7: in Texas, right and you know we've got to continue
• 39:15
  Speaker 7: to invest in the multi stakeholder dialogue that those two
• 39:18
  Speaker 7: jurisdictions specifically demand and obviously tribes are a very very
• 39:24
  Speaker 7: critical component, particularly in California, and so we don't have
• 39:28
  Speaker 7: the benefit of just focusing on anyone jurisdiction or focusing
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: on anyone sort of regulatory or policy level. We have
• 39:36
  Speaker 7: to be everywhere at all times. And you know, there's
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: no lack of investment against those those objectives. The key
• 39:44
  Speaker 7: thing is just capacity obviously, and you know what we
• 39:47
  Speaker 7: can effectively achieve in a given time period. But I
• 39:51
  Speaker 7: can tell you right now, you know again, in an
• 39:54
  Speaker 7: election year such as this one, we're i mean every
• 39:57
  Speaker 7: single day assessing long term prospects of the industry, of
• 40:01
  Speaker 7: the category and any number of jurisdictions and even nationally.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Yep, last one for you, Joe with the rise and
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: popularity of anything that has an addictive quality to it,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: we're going to see a rise in addiction. And it's
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: something that I think we in this industry bury our
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: heads on more often than we should.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: But it's real.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: What is being done on your end to make sure
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: that this doesn't become an epidemic? And if we're going
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: to even further isolate that an epidemic among young men
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: seems would be the most vulnerable to sports betting addiction.
• 40:37
  Speaker 7: Yeah, there's a lot to say, you know, in response
• 40:40
  Speaker 7: to that question, And that's a question.
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: Again.
• 40:42
  Speaker 7: If the first question is prediction markets, the second question
• 40:45
  Speaker 7: is or it's a statement, and it's never someone's it's
• 40:50
  Speaker 7: never someone's kid. It's always someone's nephew or of my
• 40:54
  Speaker 7: high school child's best friend or something. But here's what
• 40:58
  Speaker 7: I say, and I say this as a gambling executive,
• 41:02
  Speaker 7: and I say this on camera, and I say this regularly.
• 41:07
  Speaker 7: You have to acknowledge this, and you've got to be
• 41:10
  Speaker 7: You've got to meet people where they are and simply
• 41:14
  Speaker 7: saying to a stakeholder at the legislative level, or certainly
• 41:18
  Speaker 7: rolling up the sleeves and the work we do every
• 41:20
  Speaker 7: day with regulators. Gambling is an activity that can become disordered,
• 41:24
  Speaker 7: it can become problematic, and for very few people, it
• 41:27
  Speaker 7: can be addictive. And really and truly understanding that in
• 41:31
  Speaker 7: communicating that, our companies understand that our companies invest in
• 41:36
  Speaker 7: ways to I think what's important is to promote the
• 41:39
  Speaker 7: activity from the very beginning as one that should be
• 41:43
  Speaker 7: done with intention and not impulsivity. And we have broad alignment,
• 41:49
  Speaker 7: particularly at the regulator level, and I think a lot
• 41:52
  Speaker 7: of the smart people that sit at MGC and sit
• 41:55
  Speaker 7: at the NYSGC that are committed to building public awareens
• 42:00
  Speaker 7: campaigns to ensure that all betters understand that responsible gaming
• 42:04
  Speaker 7: tools are for everybody, not just for somebody with a problem.
• 42:09
  Speaker 7: So what do we do about it? We obviously invest
• 42:11
  Speaker 7: in all those tools and resources. We're seeing dramatic adoption,
• 42:15
  Speaker 7: like historic levels of adoption. You know, half of all
• 42:19
  Speaker 7: online active accounts use the tracking tools that are being
• 42:23
  Speaker 7: provided by some of the largest online sportsbooks SBA member companies.
• 42:27
  Speaker 7: People are seeing, oh, okay, like I've wagered this much,
• 42:31
  Speaker 7: I've lost this much, I've.
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: Won this much. So that's progress. Two.
• 42:36
  Speaker 7: We're exploring and our companies are also exploring really inventive
• 42:39
  Speaker 7: ways to get people to adopt one or more limiting
• 42:44
  Speaker 7: type tools, such as a wager limit or a deposit limit. Third,
• 42:49
  Speaker 7: the onset of AI and data optimization is allowing us
• 42:52
  Speaker 7: to actually build real time detection tools so we can
• 42:57
  Speaker 7: understand when someone's betting activity is a or abnormal and
• 43:01
  Speaker 7: then serve them an intervention. So Banduel's real time check
• 43:05
  Speaker 7: in is something that has been deployed. And I don't
• 43:07
  Speaker 7: know if you gentlemen see this too, but when my
• 43:09
  Speaker 7: activity is abnormal, I'm I'm absolutely served now an intervention.
• 43:13
  Speaker 7: Pretty much regularly when I go outside of a period
• 43:15
  Speaker 7: of time and I actually haven't set the time on
• 43:17
  Speaker 7: app limit. I set a deposit limit in a wager limit.
• 43:20
  Speaker 7: But I'm always surprised if i'm you know, like TGL
• 43:22
  Speaker 7: when I'm watching the indoor golfing and I just like
• 43:25
  Speaker 7: I enjoy live betting that you know I've served inventions.
• 43:29
  Speaker 8: Hey, you've been on longer.
• 43:29
  Speaker 7: Than you normally have. Is it time to take a break?
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: And I think where the innovation might come. There's a
• 43:34
  Speaker 7: popular app called Upside where you can go to a
• 43:36
  Speaker 7: gas station out of the way and get a discount
• 43:38
  Speaker 7: on that gas I think we're going to start to
• 43:39
  Speaker 7: see some interesting innovation where hey, maybe I'm given you know,
• 43:44
  Speaker 7: a dollar off, you know, my next Starbucks drink if I,
• 43:48
  Speaker 7: you know, take the break and shut down the app
• 43:49
  Speaker 7: for a little bit.
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 43:51
  Speaker 7: So, there's all kinds of interesting ways that I think
• 43:52
  Speaker 7: we're going to go. But at the very beginning, at
• 43:54
  Speaker 7: the core of this, to answer your question, we've got
• 43:57
  Speaker 7: to continue to communicate this is an activity that should
• 43:59
  Speaker 7: come with intentionality, not impulsivity. This is a entertainment exercise,
• 44:05
  Speaker 7: not a wealth creation exercise. And ultimately, the third piece
• 44:09
  Speaker 7: of this is we're resourcing the fight against problem gambling
• 44:12
  Speaker 7: and addiction in ways that we never have historically, and
• 44:15
  Speaker 7: that's because of legalization. So as a category, as an industry,
• 44:19
  Speaker 7: half a billion dollars annually goes to responsible gaming and
• 44:22
  Speaker 7: problem gambling services. Just on the private sector side, across
• 44:25
  Speaker 7: the country, one hundred and thirty million dollars of gaming
• 44:27
  Speaker 7: tax revenue is going to problem gambling services. At the
• 44:30
  Speaker 7: state level, that's money being dedicated towards state departments of
• 44:33
  Speaker 7: public health to do awareness campaigns and to build the
• 44:36
  Speaker 7: clinical capacity. And we're doing that again in an historic way.
• 44:41
  Speaker 7: And then The other point is we're also resourcing one
• 44:43
  Speaker 7: one hundred gambler or one hundred my reset in historic
• 44:47
  Speaker 7: ways just from a brand penetration standpoint with our advertising.
• 44:51
  Speaker 7: My point to all this is to say we're going
• 44:53
  Speaker 7: to increase the levels of problem gambling awareness in ways
• 44:57
  Speaker 7: we haven't yet. And that's really really important because we've
• 45:01
  Speaker 7: been able to achieve this socially with alcohol, we've been
• 45:04
  Speaker 7: able to achieve this socially with cannabis. We've been able
• 45:06
  Speaker 7: to achieve this with other types of addictive behaviors. It's
• 45:09
  Speaker 7: much harder with gambling because it can be hidden. But again,
• 45:12
  Speaker 7: this is where we've got to just support one another
• 45:14
  Speaker 7: in our communities and just check on people. Right Hey,
• 45:18
  Speaker 7: there are more resources than you can imagine. And if
• 45:20
  Speaker 7: someone sounds like they're doing something, you know, betting on
• 45:23
  Speaker 7: a Sunday night game when you know they're not typically
• 45:25
  Speaker 7: doing that, or you got signs of a friend chasing losses,
• 45:28
  Speaker 7: you know, platform the opportunity to get some help, talk
• 45:31
  Speaker 7: to people, check on people, and those are the conversations
• 45:33
  Speaker 7: that we're having. And I think a lot of states
• 45:35
  Speaker 7: are doing some really interesting work, Massachusetts specifically on this.
• 45:39
  Speaker 7: But we've got more work to do there, and it's
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: all about building a sustainable and durable industry, not an
• 45:44
  Speaker 7: industry that's viewed as just growing on the backs of
• 45:47
  Speaker 7: problem gamblers, because that's obviously not the case.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the things, like the differentiators of a
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: legal regulator market doing things like credit card bands, age
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: ID like legit age identification, some of those things I
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: think are helping as well. But Brandon, I love how
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: you said the final question. You asked a question to
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Joe that he could have probably answered over the course
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: of eight hours, so taking five minutes. I thought it
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: was pretty impressive.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Joe, that was very, very concise and important discussion, and
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: we should probably have an entire episode on it at
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: a later date.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Joe Maloney, we know we've got to let you go.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: The Sports Betting Alliance is where you can find him
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: a Sports Bettingalliance dot org if you want to learn
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: more about all these fascinating topics and ever changing landscape
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: of sports betting in this country.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: Thanks so much for the time.
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: Joe, Thank you, gentlemen.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Fantastic stuff from Joe, most of which.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Flew right over my head from a legal perspective, but
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: he is a highly intelligent individual that is helping to
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: regulate this sports betting endeavor that we love so much.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: And speaking of which, it is time for our drafting
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: segment this week.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: Time to plant our flag on.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: The one remaining Conference Finals matchup Thunder Spurs Game five.
• 47:00
  Speaker 8: I have to play and shut up.
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to plant my flag here.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're really planning your flag in that dex A
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: pivotal game fives. They often say, you win this one,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna win the series. I tend to agree
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: as far as these two teams go.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: I'm not on a side though.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna take the total under two sixteen and a half.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Spurs made some big time adjustments in Game four. They
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: altered the way that they were guarding SGA. They stayed
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: home on the shooters on the perimeter finally, and I'm
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: sure that the Thunder will have a counter to that counter.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: But it's game five. These two teams have played each
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: other nine times. This is gonna be the tenth meeting
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: between the Thunder and the Spurs this season. We're running
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: out of ideas. I'm just gonna take the under, Evan,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: what about you?
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: I just wish injuries are turned off for this series,
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: but because they are turned on and we have a
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: problem in that area in terms of exactly health who's playing,
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: et cetera. I kind of like the Spurs, But if
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna stay away from a side altogether, I think
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: the prop that is kind of agnostic of doesn't matter
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: what the result will be, especially given the injuries. I
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: like Caruso in this series. Given looking at our player
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: prop edges, we have an edge to the over on
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: his points and his rebounds, so I will actually look
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: to his pra over thirteen and a half. I think,
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: no matter what happens, he shows up as the energy
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: guy kind of does a bunch of things, is over
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: two and a half rebounds, also showing a bigger edge
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: if you wanted to go that direction.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, role player paradise there in Oklahoma, stucky, what about you?
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: By the way, I mean, we waited ten months to
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: get the conference finals, that everyone already picked them, they
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: were supposed to be great. Then after game one everyone's like,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, this, and then they've been horrendous. The Knicks
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: just beat the Cavs like forty every game and swept them,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: and the last three thunder Spars game has been terrible,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: so hopefully we get three really good games and a
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: good finals. Because Jesus, I have no idea on this game.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: This is I'm this is we try to help you out. Yeah,
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: I am not like right now, this is the least
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I've bet in my entire life this month, new kid,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: trying to spend time with my wife before football grind
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: and dealing with dad's estate. So like, I don't have
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: a clue, So I will plug Buckets podcast and one
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: of the bets they liked, which after looking I kind
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: of like SGA over one and a half threes at
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: plus money. But I think he's gotten fifteen off in
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: four games, shooting under his shooting a bit under his
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: season percentage, so I think he might be due to
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: make an extra one or two. Hopefully he gets multiple
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: in this game. I think the Thunder get it done
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: at home. Hopefully we go seven. But let's go with
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: SGA over one and a half threes.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, try and stay as far away from Victor Winbinyama
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: as you can, as he's patrolling that paint and the
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: mid range show A three or two extra from SGA
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: not a bad idea Alex Caruso over thirteen and a
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: half points, rebounds and assists, the under two sixteen and
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: a half, and SGA to make at least two threes
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: over Undraftkings. You get that a nice neat plus six
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: twenty five. Those are our plant the Flag picks for
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Game five, presented by DraftKings.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: The crown is yours.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: That'll do it for today's episode special thanks to our
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: guests Joe Maloney, our producers David Paine and Gifford gold
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: stat sound Evan Abrams helping out as well. The Favorites
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: will return on Thursday right here on the Action Network
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: YouTube page or wherever you download your favorite podcasts. As always,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: our show presented by DraftKings.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Until next time, Football Team.
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: Action Network reminds you please gamble responsibly.
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: If you or someone you care about has a gambling problem,
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: help is available twenty four to seven at one eight
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: hundred Gambler