Latest / The You Project / #1970 Understanding Self-Sabotage - Shirzad Chamine

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#1970 Understanding Self-Sabotage - Shirzad Chamine · The You Project

0:01
Speaker 1: Oh, get a team. It's the you project. We've got
0:03
Speaker 1: a new friend to come and play. I'm super bloody excited.
0:05
Speaker 1: But before we talk to him, old Tiff, you know,
0:08
Speaker 1: when I gave Shazzad the briefing, I probably should have
0:10
Speaker 1: mentioned that I swear a bit.
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Speaker 2: Ye?
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Speaker 1: Should I tone that down for him? Long it all
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Speaker 1: last though, absolutely? You know it would have been funny
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Speaker 1: if he said, fuck, no, don't do that, Tiff. How
0:27
Speaker 1: are you?
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Speaker 3: I'm cold? I'm so cold that the motorbike wouldn't start
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Speaker 3: this morning, which is annoying.
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Speaker 1: Well, zero degrees in Melbourne this morning. Everyone thinks Australia's
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Speaker 1: this big land of fucking sunny beaches and warm weather.
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Speaker 1: And it's zero this morning, which is about I think Shazad,
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Speaker 1: welcome to the show. I think that's about thirty degrees
0:48
Speaker 1: in your language. But zero celsius over here this morning,
0:53
Speaker 1: so it's a cold one. How are you? I am?
0:57
Speaker 2: Well? Well? San Francisco also has a game called Summers
1:01
Speaker 2: for us, so I can I can relate.
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Speaker 1: What's the temperature? Make us a little bit jealous? What's
1:08
Speaker 1: the temperature over there today give or take.
1:11
Speaker 2: Well, we are on fahrenheit, so it's eighty degrees fahrenheit.
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Speaker 2: I'm guessing that's a balmy thirty two degrees or something,
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Speaker 2: but that's a rough gas.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, listening over there suffering TIF. That's terrible, isn't it?
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Speaker 2: So?
1:25
Speaker 1: Hi, welcome to the show. How are you. How's your
1:28
Speaker 1: day been?
1:29
Speaker 2: Has been fantastic as yours been?
1:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been good so far. Just some early morning
1:34
Speaker 1: caffeine and Tips. Had a tough one and motorbike wouldn't
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Speaker 1: start water tip with all.
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Speaker 3: The days, I've got to move it by tomorrow morning
1:42
Speaker 3: because our back car parks getting repaid reserves. If my
1:47
Speaker 3: box sitting there, I'm going to get a big fine.
1:50
Speaker 1: Well, you've got to get rid of it. So we
1:54
Speaker 1: did discuss how you can get at mobile, so we'll
1:57
Speaker 1: talk about that later. But she's had, rather than me
2:00
Speaker 1: read out a bio, read something off a website or
2:04
Speaker 1: some other kind of forum. Can you give us a
2:08
Speaker 1: snapshot of who you are, your background and the work
2:11
Speaker 1: that you do so my audience can get to know
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Speaker 1: you a little bit.
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Speaker 2: Yes. My passion there is and i'm here is changing lives,
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Speaker 2: and I have a very specific way of looking at that,
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Speaker 2: which is I believe every single one of us is
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Speaker 2: very actively and profoundly sabotaging ourselves every single day, sabotaging
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Speaker 2: our well being, performance, and relationship. I discovered that I
2:38
Speaker 2: do that years ago. I figured out how to do
2:40
Speaker 2: less of that years ago, and I am passionate about
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Speaker 2: helping others do less self sabotage and being more in
2:45
Speaker 2: self mastery change their own lives. And that's what I do.
2:52
Speaker 2: I come at it from a more science science background,
2:55
Speaker 2: so a lot of what I'm into is making sure
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Speaker 2: that what we do is first of all easy to do,
3:01
Speaker 2: secondly based on research and science, and third it results
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Speaker 2: in lasting change rather than often we do things that
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Speaker 2: get us excited for a temporary period and then we're
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Speaker 2: back to old behavior. So I'm very passionate about how
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Speaker 2: do we create sustained transformation rather than the usual you know,
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Speaker 2: temporary blips and how we feel and what we do.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's absolutely paramount, isn't it. Because we're so good
3:31
Speaker 1: at at changing things for a minute, or changing behavior,
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Speaker 1: or changing our operating system for a moment. And you know,
3:39
Speaker 1: when you look at the fundamentals, like for example, just
3:44
Speaker 1: trying to get in shape, whatever that means, you know,
3:46
Speaker 1: lose a few pounds, gain a bit of muscle, improve fitness,
3:50
Speaker 1: you know, change change something about our physiology. Like gyms
3:54
Speaker 1: can almost rely in fact not almost gyms can rely
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Speaker 1: on the fact that people will make decisions that they
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Speaker 1: won't follow through on. And I don't know what I
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Speaker 1: don't know what the stat is in the States, although
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Speaker 1: I've spoken in the States a bit, But in Australia
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Speaker 1: there's a very act the people who use the gym consistently,
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Speaker 1: which is called active gym membership is very low. It's
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Speaker 1: somewhere around fifteen percent. And it means She's add that
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Speaker 1: for every hundred current paid up members, most of them
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Speaker 1: don't go why do you reckon we make? Why do
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Speaker 1: we make decisions that we don't ultimately follow through on?
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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's the whole point of my research
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Speaker 2: where I look at how our bad old behavior they
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Speaker 2: are habitual and the reason they are habitual as they
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Speaker 2: live in the brain and form of neural pathways that
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Speaker 2: are muscle power and generate those behaviors instantly. Now, when
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Speaker 2: you read a book or attend a lecture or talk
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Speaker 2: to somebody who inspire is you to do something different?
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Speaker 2: I go to the gym that's an inspiration that is
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Speaker 2: not muscle power. It's just an inspiration. So you make
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Speaker 2: decisions based on those moments of inspiration. Oh my god,
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Speaker 2: this is a life changing thing I'm going to do.
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Speaker 2: And what I talked about is that you can't fight
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Speaker 2: muscle with insight. You need to fight muscle with muscle.
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Speaker 2: So that inspiration until it becomes neuropathways in the brain
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Speaker 2: muscle power, it doesn't mean much. It evaporates. And most
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Speaker 2: of us have these life changing experiences that are based
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Speaker 2: on insights, and we fail to convert those insights into
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Speaker 2: neuropathways into muscles in the brain. At the end, the
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Speaker 2: muscle power of the old ways keeps winning over.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that's so true because it's almost like inspiration
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Speaker 1: is the spark that lights the fire, but we need
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Speaker 1: to fire to keep burning, you know. And it's so
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Speaker 1: so I guess part of like intertwined with creating new
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Speaker 1: neural pathways and a new for one of a more
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Speaker 1: academic term, a new behavioral default setting or a new normal,
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Speaker 1: or a new set of habits that work for us
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Speaker 1: that are hardwired into our brain. But what's that? Because
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Speaker 1: we know that we get excited and motivated and inspired,
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Speaker 1: and we also know that we give up. So what's
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Speaker 1: the that's is it about? Accountability? Is about having a
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Speaker 1: coach or a mentor or a training partner. How that
6:33
Speaker 1: spot between I got excited for three days and then
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Speaker 1: I gave up, and now I've got new neural pathways
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Speaker 1: and this is my new version of normal. What's the
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Speaker 1: bit in the middle.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the big issue is that we treat
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Speaker 2: the symptoms and not look at the problem. Why we
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Speaker 2: go back to the old behavior at the root cause.
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Speaker 2: So all of our research has been about the root
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Speaker 2: cause problem. What we did with working with more than
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Speaker 2: a million participants by now with it an assessment of
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Speaker 2: how we self sabotage. And what we determine is that
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Speaker 2: there are ten ways we self sabotage. These characters in
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Speaker 2: our head are the ones that have muscle power, that
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Speaker 2: have the bad patterns of our life. And the reason
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Speaker 2: we don't stick with the new things we want to
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Speaker 2: do is that these characters in our mind are very
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Speaker 2: powerful beings and they win over and so, and they
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Speaker 2: have names like the judge, the controller, the stickler, the victim,
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Speaker 2: the pleaser, the avoid the restless. So they got muscle
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Speaker 2: power they got, they got habits, and so being inspired,
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Speaker 2: they come back and sabotage the new ways that we
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Speaker 2: want to set in place, because these characters are like
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Speaker 2: being in power and like to take take command from us.
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Speaker 2: And until and unless we deal with this root level
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Speaker 2: what we call saboteurs and our our brain, we'll keep
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Speaker 2: building castles on sand because we don't have a strong
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Speaker 2: enough foundation.
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Speaker 1: And how do we deal with them? I mean, I
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Speaker 1: know it's I'm sure it's not. I think it's a
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Speaker 1: sure it's multi dimensional. But you know, all of these
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Speaker 1: hard wirde characters in our brain that kind of derail
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Speaker 1: us and sabotage us. Where do we begin?
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Speaker 2: Well, where we begin is to first of all call
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Speaker 2: them on the lie that they have which the reason
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Speaker 2: that they're in power is that they have fooled us
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Speaker 2: into believing that they are our friends and that we
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Speaker 2: need them. So I work with a lot of CEOs,
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Speaker 2: and every single one of them, you know, tells me,
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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, not all of them have
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Speaker 2: the controllers out or what most of them do. And
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Speaker 2: they say, without controller, nothing gets done. You know. The
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Speaker 2: stickler says, without the stickler, there will be no quality
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Speaker 2: in the work that I do, and the restlesses. Without
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Speaker 2: the restless, I won't have any fun. So these ways
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Speaker 2: are ways where we tell ourselves we have survived until now.
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Speaker 2: These characters are actually agents of survival that we all
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Speaker 2: have them because in our childhood we learned to do
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Speaker 2: these things in order to get more love, in order
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Speaker 2: to feel more safe, in order to be more independent.
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Speaker 2: So they are our go to operating system of our
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Speaker 2: five year old version, and they have convinced us that
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Speaker 2: we need them in are to survive, and by the
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Speaker 2: time we are adults, we think we can't live without them.
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Speaker 2: So first and foremost we have to debunk that and
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Speaker 2: tell you, as a matter of fact, you do not
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Speaker 2: need them, and there is a far better way of living.
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Speaker 2: The Stanford students that have lectured on this they call
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Speaker 2: this work Jedi mind training, and what they say, really
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Speaker 2: the work here is about recognizing that inside your mind
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Speaker 2: there are these dark waters and then there's the energy Jedi.
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Speaker 2: And we got to really call the dart waters for
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Speaker 2: their lives, debunk them, discredit them, and lean into our Energjedi,
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Speaker 2: which we call the sage. So it's the Sage versus
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Speaker 2: Sabbator going on inside of our head, and it starts
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Speaker 2: with awareness. Awareness is critical. It's just that awareness is
10:20
Speaker 2: twenty percent the starting point, and eighty percent is getting
10:23
Speaker 2: into building muscles.
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Speaker 1: Such I was about to say, it sounds like high
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Speaker 1: level self awareness, you know. It's like and being able.
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Speaker 1: You know. I think about this a lot like stuff
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Speaker 1: because you and I kind of are in the same
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Speaker 1: space human behavior and thinking and metacognition and theory of
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Speaker 1: mind and understanding how others think and what we think.
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Speaker 1: But it takes courage, and it takes self control to
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Speaker 1: be able to recognize your own self limiting thinking and
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Speaker 1: self limiting habits and self limiting behaviors, and and the
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Speaker 1: way that you get in your own way, you know,
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Speaker 1: the way that you know. It's like I do a
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Speaker 1: lot of corporate speaking, and I did one the other
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Speaker 1: day and there was two hundred and fifty people and
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Speaker 1: I said, put up your hand if you're an overthinker.
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Speaker 1: Every hand goes up, and then I go, how's that
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Speaker 1: working for you? And everybody laughs because we all do it,
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Speaker 1: but it doesn't work, you know, And so so then
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Speaker 1: being able to without self loathing, I think this is
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Speaker 1: the key. You know is that that to be able
11:34
Speaker 1: to be self aware without beating yourself up, without being
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Speaker 1: overly self critical.
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Speaker 2: You know, absolutely, And here's the challenge that of these
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Speaker 2: ten characters sense abators I talked about, the only one
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Speaker 2: that everybody has is the judge Sabator, and the judged
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Speaker 2: Sabator is the one that amplifies the negative in yourself,
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Speaker 2: in our and in circumstances. So it's the one that's
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Speaker 2: constantly finding what's wrong with yourself with others amateur circumstances.
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Speaker 2: And it's the one that sabotages our attempt to change
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Speaker 2: because of exactly what you said, the self loading, because
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Speaker 2: it discourages us. It just waits for a moment to say, hey,
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Speaker 2: you're not going to make it. Look you're just wired
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Speaker 2: this way. Forget about it. And so all of our
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Speaker 2: attempts at change, first and foremost are discredited by unsabotaged
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Speaker 2: by the Judge Sabatur. So what we do in our
12:32
Speaker 2: work is one of the metaphors. One of the things
12:35
Speaker 2: that we keep using is you know, metaphors related to
12:39
Speaker 2: physical fitness. So we say, okay, if you if you
12:42
Speaker 2: try to learn a new sports, have you you can
12:46
Speaker 2: have you ever imagined anybody learning a new game and
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Speaker 2: just starting and being good and then better and better
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Speaker 2: and better and better and better every single day. The
12:56
Speaker 2: answer is no. When you start trying to learn a
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Speaker 2: new game, you have a good day, you take two
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Speaker 2: steps forward and then a step back, to steps forward
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Speaker 2: a step back, and when you take that step back
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Speaker 2: in an attempt to improve, that judge character is going
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Speaker 2: to come beat the crap out of you and say,
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Speaker 2: shame on you, your piece of shit. I told you you
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Speaker 2: cannot improve. Forget about it. You know you're not gonna ever.
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Speaker 2: This is not going to work, and it discourages you
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Speaker 2: from going on and what we do instead saying that
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Speaker 2: as you take that step back, as you fall again,
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Speaker 2: it is critical to watch this voice coming and beating
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Speaker 2: you up and say no, no, I'm not going to let
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Speaker 2: you do that. I'm going to give myself a big,
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Speaker 2: loving hug. It's the sage part of you, the positive
13:36
Speaker 2: part of you that brings compassion to you. When you're done, alan,
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Speaker 2: let this judge character beat the crap out of you.
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Speaker 2: So if you truly want to improve in a sustained way,
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Speaker 2: self compassion versus self judgment is a critical fork in
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Speaker 2: the road that you need to keep really watching.
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Speaker 1: For now, I'm going to let you know how we've
13:56
Speaker 1: obviously we've got a long way Togo, but so should.
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Speaker 1: I wrote a book called Positive Intelligence New York Times bestseller.
14:06
Speaker 1: No less, of course you did Positive Intelligence, so have
14:09
Speaker 1: a look for that. But also if people want to
14:15
Speaker 1: see where they kind of lay in this space, you've
14:18
Speaker 1: got an online quiz that people can do that like
14:23
Speaker 1: five minutes or less. Can you just while we're in
14:26
Speaker 1: this space, can you tell them how to access that?
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Speaker 2: Please? Yeah, it's just five minute online sabatur assessment. In
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Speaker 2: five minutes you get a bar chart that shows you
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Speaker 2: which of these ways of self sabotage is strongest in you?
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Speaker 2: Is it the avoider, the controller, the victims? What is it? Whatever? Again?
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Speaker 2: There are ten altogether, and you access it through Positive
14:50
Speaker 2: Integions dot com slash assessment Positive Intelligence dot com slash assessment,
14:55
Speaker 2: and it's free and of course strictly confident information just
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Speaker 2: for you.
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Speaker 1: Out of interest. How much does the environment, the situation,
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Speaker 1: the friendship, groups, the family, the social constructs around us
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Speaker 1: influence how we see ourselves? Like if I'm a really supportive,
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Speaker 1: loving environment and people Am I going to be less
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Speaker 1: likely to have that internal sabotur going off the meta
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Speaker 1: all the time?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Great question, and maybe I can answer it by
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Speaker 2: talking about my two kids. I have two beautiful kids
15:38
Speaker 2: who are not twenty one and twenty five years old.
15:41
Speaker 2: They were born from day one. Day were night and
15:44
Speaker 2: day opposites from each other. My son was this very
15:49
Speaker 2: easy going, even keel you know, life is a bullet cherries. Hey,
15:56
Speaker 2: let's take it easy, let's just have fun. That kind
15:59
Speaker 2: of a flexible, adoptable personality. My daughter was born and
16:04
Speaker 2: it's very sweet and introverted. My daughter was a raging
16:09
Speaker 2: extrovert from day one, and she was a hard charger
16:13
Speaker 2: and she was very goal oriented and very very different
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Speaker 2: in blueprint. Both of these are so I basically say,
16:20
Speaker 2: you know, you're born a rose or you're born a carnation.
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Speaker 2: Rose can never be a carnation. Cornation can never be
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Speaker 2: a rose. You got to really lean into the beauty
16:28
Speaker 2: that you're born to be. So there you're born with
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Speaker 2: different essences. Now, those ways of being under the same
16:37
Speaker 2: exact environment when they were grown up resulted in them
16:41
Speaker 2: developing different saboteurs. So my son, who had that very
16:47
Speaker 2: sweet temperament and life is a boll cherries. When he
16:52
Speaker 2: was facing challenges and stresses in life, he overused that strength,
16:56
Speaker 2: which became the avoid sabaturs, and instead of tackling challenges,
17:01
Speaker 2: he said, this is unpleasant. Life is supposed to be pleasant.
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Speaker 2: I'm not going to deal with this, and so his
17:05
Speaker 2: sabatur became the avoid. My daughter, on the other hand,
17:09
Speaker 2: who was very hard charging and all had those strengths.
17:12
Speaker 2: When facebook challenges, she overused those strengths and in the
17:16
Speaker 2: process she developed the controller sabaturs, so controller sabator versus
17:21
Speaker 2: the avoider sabator. So basically, what I believe is that
17:23
Speaker 2: we are born with predisposition for different natural strengths, which
17:29
Speaker 2: when they're overused, they've become their saboteurs. Because we over
17:32
Speaker 2: use our strengths and insult by overusing them and abusing them,
17:38
Speaker 2: they become the way we sabotage ourselves. And then the
17:41
Speaker 2: degree of difficulty that we have in childhood affects how
17:46
Speaker 2: strong these saboteurs become. But I think, but I believe
17:49
Speaker 2: that the development of sabaturs is a completely normal part
17:53
Speaker 2: of human beings growth. My son and daughter grew up
17:57
Speaker 2: with the best of haarenting. Of course, as you can imagine,
18:00
Speaker 2: and right in front of my eyes they developed the
18:02
Speaker 2: avoid and the controller sabaturs. It's unavoidable.
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Speaker 1: And so what was what was your form of self
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Speaker 1: sabotage growing up or even in your even in your
18:13
Speaker 1: early kind of adult years or maybe even now, do
18:15
Speaker 1: you still get in your own way? Yeah? What what's
18:18
Speaker 1: your think?
18:19
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I believe we all do this every day. It's unavoidable.
18:25
Speaker 2: And the mind, a strong one was the victim sabator.
18:29
Speaker 2: And I was diagnosed with clinical depression when I was
18:33
Speaker 2: about thirty years old. I had no idea that the
18:35
Speaker 2: first three years of my life I had lived in
18:36
Speaker 2: colnicol depression. And the reason that the sabateor was the
18:42
Speaker 2: survival strategy. These sabators are survival strategies. The reason I
18:46
Speaker 2: had that is I was growing up in a in
18:48
Speaker 2: a in poverty, in a in a ghetto with my
18:55
Speaker 2: with force siblings, a tiny little apartment. My father a
19:00
Speaker 2: terrifying man. He was very angry and scary to me.
19:04
Speaker 2: My mother was running around terrified of him. And I
19:06
Speaker 2: was a very sensitive kid, terrified and not getting much
19:10
Speaker 2: love or attention, and one of my survival strategies was
19:15
Speaker 2: the victim sabatur And what that meant is instead of
19:19
Speaker 2: confronting and having fights and all of that stuff, I
19:21
Speaker 2: withdrew from it all. I would go to a quiet,
19:24
Speaker 2: a little corner in the room, and I would create
19:26
Speaker 2: this cocoon of depression, of just being, of self pity,
19:31
Speaker 2: and in so doing, the reason it was helpful for
19:34
Speaker 2: my survival it was two reasons. One, I was removing
19:37
Speaker 2: myself from the hostility and the pain to some extent,
19:42
Speaker 2: so I wasn't triggering much by moving myself to that corner.
19:46
Speaker 2: The second thing is which I later I later realized
19:50
Speaker 2: years later, is that in the absence of getting love,
19:56
Speaker 2: what I had found is that actually self pity is
19:59
Speaker 2: was very suited. So instead of getting love, I learned
20:03
Speaker 2: to give my self pity because that was a very
20:06
Speaker 2: soothing way. And it only took me years and years
20:10
Speaker 2: and years. At some point you realize, you know what
20:12
Speaker 2: I actually deserve love, I don't deserve self pity. So
20:15
Speaker 2: as an adult, I was playing victim all over the place,
20:19
Speaker 2: and it took me forever to realize that I was
20:21
Speaker 2: still trying to bring my self pity and get pity
20:23
Speaker 2: from others. And at some point I woke up and said,
20:26
Speaker 2: you know what, I actually deserve love, not pity, and
20:29
Speaker 2: that was the end of my playing the victim sabator
20:32
Speaker 2: in such a powerful way. And to your point, is
20:35
Speaker 2: this salator still with me or not? This veritor is
20:37
Speaker 2: definitely not running me. I no longer am I in depression.
20:41
Speaker 2: It is not my go to thing every time something
20:43
Speaker 2: doesn't go well, and I still find self pity to
20:47
Speaker 2: be incredibly seductive. I don't go there, but I know
20:52
Speaker 2: that it's a seductive thing when something doesn't go well,
20:56
Speaker 2: but I catch it, don't go there. I may go
20:59
Speaker 2: there a few times a year. It's not very common. Yeah,
21:02
Speaker 2: so it's no longer running me, but it's still absolutely
21:04
Speaker 2: their sabotage never go away. That you can make them
21:07
Speaker 2: much smaller, but they never fully go away.
21:10
Speaker 1: Wow, thank you so much. I love it when I
21:14
Speaker 1: get someone on who's an expert in something written, a book,
21:18
Speaker 1: spoken all over the world, done all the stuff that
21:20
Speaker 1: you do, and then still go But by the way,
21:22
Speaker 1: I'm still a bit broken. You know, I'm better than
21:25
Speaker 1: I was, but I'm still a work in progress. And
21:27
Speaker 1: I love that because I think, you know, it actually
21:31
Speaker 1: encourages the rest of us, you know, and it's so true.
21:34
Speaker 1: I think we're all a bit brilliant, all a bit flawed,
21:37
Speaker 1: all a bit amazing, all a bit ridiculous. And it
21:41
Speaker 1: takes courage, I think, especially because I don't know if
21:45
Speaker 1: men do have bigger egos or not, but I feel
21:47
Speaker 1: like we always want to be seen to be the
21:50
Speaker 1: best and the shiniest and the most flawless. And yeah,
21:56
Speaker 1: my curiosity with human behavior, and you knowsogy is really
22:00
Speaker 1: out of all of my own ineptitude and all of
22:04
Speaker 1: my own flaws and bullshit and self doubt and insecurity,
22:07
Speaker 1: and yeah, it is. I feel like it is definitely
22:11
Speaker 1: a work in progress. I've got to I don't know
22:13
Speaker 1: if you've ever been asked this question, but is there
22:18
Speaker 1: what are the you probably have? What are the benefits
22:22
Speaker 1: or what is the upside to self sabotage? Because there
22:28
Speaker 1: must be something in it for us or we wouldn't
22:30
Speaker 1: do it.
22:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. What I talk about with the saboteurs is that
22:35
Speaker 2: they are the ones in us that generate all of
22:40
Speaker 2: our negative emotions. Negative emotions like stress, anger, shame, guilt, disappointment,
22:45
Speaker 2: regret all of these things. And the question is aren't
22:51
Speaker 2: these negative emotions helpful? If they weren't, why would we
22:53
Speaker 2: have them? And the answer and in order to answer
22:56
Speaker 2: the question, you know, aren't negative emotions helpful? I ask
22:59
Speaker 2: a religate that question. I asked people, what do you
23:02
Speaker 2: think about pain? Do you think pain is helpful? Is
23:05
Speaker 2: it helpful? Is it helpful to have pain? And you
23:09
Speaker 2: know the answer is obvious. Of course, it's helpful to
23:12
Speaker 2: have pain. Why because if the stove is left on
23:17
Speaker 2: accidentally and you put your hand on the out stove,
23:19
Speaker 2: it's good to feel pain. If you don't feel pain,
23:21
Speaker 2: you're going to keep your hand on the out stove
23:23
Speaker 2: and burn to the bone. So therefore, pain is very
23:26
Speaker 2: helpful as an ARTH signal. But here's the million dollar question.
23:30
Speaker 2: How long would you like to feel the pain of
23:33
Speaker 2: your hand on the hot stove before you get the
23:36
Speaker 2: message and before you move a hand? And hopefully we'll
23:40
Speaker 2: all say, oh, that's quickly as possible. Pain is helpful
23:43
Speaker 2: as an alert, but once the alert is delivered, it
23:47
Speaker 2: is then the definition of insanity to keep your hand
23:51
Speaker 2: on the hot stove. And same exact thing with negative emotions,
23:54
Speaker 2: is it good to feel shame, guilt, disappointment, regret, stress
23:59
Speaker 2: or anger or all of these They are absolutely incredibly helpful.
24:02
Speaker 2: Without them, we will have no conscience. We will do
24:04
Speaker 2: horrible stuff and not feel bad about it. We will
24:07
Speaker 2: you know, make mistakes and not even notice that anything wrong.
24:11
Speaker 2: All of this stuff right, They are incredibly it's incredibly
24:14
Speaker 2: helpful to feel these negative emotions. But for how long?
24:17
Speaker 2: For just one second as a wake up call that says, hey, buddy,
24:22
Speaker 2: pay attention, something is going wrong here. But once that
24:25
Speaker 2: message is delivered, then staying angry, staying upset, staying stressed,
24:29
Speaker 2: stay disappointed, staying in shame or guilt is absolutely counterproductive
24:34
Speaker 2: because what you need is in order to figure out
24:37
Speaker 2: how to respond to a tough situation, you want to
24:39
Speaker 2: shift to the positive part of your brain. Get in
24:42
Speaker 2: touch with deep empathy and curiosity and creativity and calm,
24:47
Speaker 2: clear head, that laser for focused action. We need the
24:50
Speaker 2: positive brain to actually deal with challenges in the best way.
24:54
Speaker 2: So in that sense, what we would say is that
24:58
Speaker 2: you know, saboteurs are the one does that keep your
25:00
Speaker 2: hand on the hot stove? Have you continue to suffer
25:05
Speaker 2: and responding to things that are challenging and a big,
25:09
Speaker 2: big transformation we seek its. How quickly do you shift
25:13
Speaker 2: from an initial negative reaction to things so positive? Embrace
25:18
Speaker 2: I've got the challenges.
25:20
Speaker 1: Do you think that I feel? Like with me? There's
25:23
Speaker 1: been times in my life where I am, for whatever reason,
25:28
Speaker 1: I'm more open to hear what I need to hear,
25:31
Speaker 1: or to be honest with myself, or to I don't
25:35
Speaker 1: know even sometimes I've got this funny story. What's it called?
25:40
Speaker 1: Do you know who Eckhart Toole is? Hold the spirit? Yeah,
25:45
Speaker 1: the spiritual writer. So when I was younger, I mean
25:49
Speaker 1: quite young, maybe twenty five, one of my friends gave
25:52
Speaker 1: me the Power of Now. I don't know when it
25:55
Speaker 1: came out, but can you just find out when did
25:58
Speaker 1: the Power of Now come out? When was that? Anyway?
26:02
Speaker 1: Please and thank you. I remember I remember reading it
26:06
Speaker 1: when it just came out. A friend of mine gave
26:08
Speaker 1: it to me and said, you've got to read this.
26:10
Speaker 1: This is life changing. It'll blow your head off. It's
26:12
Speaker 1: it's like.
26:14
Speaker 3: Tiffy sixteen.
26:18
Speaker 1: No, No I came out, Am I thinking about the
26:21
Speaker 1: wrong book?
26:22
Speaker 2: Public came out before twenty sixteen, I thought.
26:27
Speaker 3: Originally published two thousand and two, I think it might
26:31
Speaker 3: have come out on audible.
26:34
Speaker 1: I think it was like in the nineties. Anyway, it
26:36
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, but I read it and I thought it
26:39
Speaker 1: was junk. I read the first twenty pages Chazzad and
26:42
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is bullshit. It's like spiritual mumbo jumbo, right.
26:47
Speaker 1: And then about five years later, I don't know, five years, six,
26:52
Speaker 1: seven years later, I just saw the book in all
26:55
Speaker 1: of my books and I can't remember why, but I
26:58
Speaker 1: just felt compelled to pick it up and read it again.
27:01
Speaker 1: And the next time I read it, I'm like, how
27:05
Speaker 1: long has this been around? All this brilliant wisdom and insight,
27:09
Speaker 1: And it was like I was reading a different book
27:12
Speaker 1: for the first time, and it blew me away. Obviously
27:15
Speaker 1: the book was the same, but I was different, and
27:18
Speaker 1: without being too spiritual or weird, it's like, oh, well,
27:22
Speaker 1: now I was ready to have this message. Or two,
27:26
Speaker 1: how'd you go tift? Did you? It doesn't matter?
27:28
Speaker 3: Seven?
27:29
Speaker 2: Yeah?
27:30
Speaker 1: Right, thank you? Perfect? Yeah yeah yeah. But it's it's
27:35
Speaker 1: almost like when the students ready, the teacher will appear, right.
27:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes people don't wake up to the
27:45
Speaker 2: need for transformation until the pain becomes unbearable. And I
27:50
Speaker 2: know that that was the case for me. I mean,
27:52
Speaker 2: one of the most pirital moments of my life was
27:58
Speaker 2: after Stanford Business School I had I'd worked in high
28:03
Speaker 2: tech marketing for a while, and then I started a
28:06
Speaker 2: new venture back software company. I was a visionary thinker
28:11
Speaker 2: in technology, and I was able to attract luminaries in
28:15
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley to be my investors, my board members. He
28:19
Speaker 2: Attackered was our first client. It was a huge hit,
28:23
Speaker 2: and so I attracted all these great people also to
28:25
Speaker 2: work for me, including one of my classmates from Stanford
28:30
Speaker 2: Business School. So here I'm a visionary leader attracting all
28:35
Speaker 2: this good stuff and leading a company. Two years into
28:38
Speaker 2: this product was late, customer was unhappy. I was under
28:42
Speaker 2: a lot of stress, and we were in downtown Palo Alto.
28:48
Speaker 2: One day, I went out for lunch, got my lunch,
28:50
Speaker 2: came back, came up upstairs with the second floor offices
28:54
Speaker 2: was and my heart sank because what I saw was
28:59
Speaker 2: in the boardroom. Was see that my chairman of the
29:02
Speaker 2: board and the president I had hired and vice presidents,
29:08
Speaker 2: they were sitting in the board Basically it was a
29:12
Speaker 2: palace school. Because what had happened is my president and
29:16
Speaker 2: VPS went to the board and said, sure Zod is
29:20
Speaker 2: being such a horrific controller and micromanager as a leader
29:26
Speaker 2: that we cannot stand working for him anymore. He is
29:30
Speaker 2: destroying the division of the companies he started. And that
29:36
Speaker 2: was the most painful professional moment of my life. And
29:39
Speaker 2: that day I was demoted from being CEE of the
29:41
Speaker 2: company I had started. And I couldn't walk away because
29:44
Speaker 2: I'd brought in all the investors and all the clients
29:47
Speaker 2: and employees. I couldn't just walk away and abandon them.
29:50
Speaker 2: So I had to keep going back into the office
29:52
Speaker 2: where I had been the model, working with people that
29:54
Speaker 2: I thought had stabbed me in the back profoundly painful.
29:58
Speaker 2: And then to get to I had to figure out
30:01
Speaker 2: what the heck is going on here? Who am I?
30:03
Speaker 2: Am I this visionary neither or had attracted all this
30:07
Speaker 2: positive stuff to me? Or am I this horrible micromanager
30:11
Speaker 2: or nobody could stand working for? Who am I? The answer, finally,
30:15
Speaker 2: I realized, as I got into getting over my pain discovery,
30:20
Speaker 2: was I am both. I am that beautiful sage positive
30:25
Speaker 2: visionary who attracted and created all this great stuff and
30:28
Speaker 2: under stress, which is something that fuels or the saboteurs
30:34
Speaker 2: instead of my beautiful sage self. I had become more
30:38
Speaker 2: and more of my saboteurs, and including the controller and
30:44
Speaker 2: the judge, and with all of their negativity. So I
30:47
Speaker 2: am both. And the question is which one am I
30:50
Speaker 2: in the moment based on how much stress am I
30:52
Speaker 2: experiencing and how powerful these characters are relative to each other.
30:57
Speaker 1: Wow, thank you again, what a great story and also
31:02
Speaker 1: what great insight, and also how it's hard to be
31:08
Speaker 1: objective about ourselves because we are us, right, and we're
31:13
Speaker 1: always looking at everything through the I'm always looking at
31:16
Speaker 1: the world through the Craig lens. And even though you,
31:20
Speaker 1: I and TIF are all in the same moment now,
31:22
Speaker 1: we're not having the same experience, right, And to be
31:26
Speaker 1: able to not lose your shit when those people do
31:31
Speaker 1: that to you, If I get to academic, let me
31:34
Speaker 1: know to not lose your shit and to be able
31:37
Speaker 1: to reflect on that with humility and self awareness and
31:43
Speaker 1: then come to that kind of awakening. Ain't many people
31:48
Speaker 1: doing that? That's good for you? And so does this
31:54
Speaker 1: speak to our capacity for equanimity, you know, to be
31:59
Speaker 1: the calm in the else, to be able to be
32:01
Speaker 1: a best self when things aren't going well.
32:06
Speaker 2: It absolutely does. And the thing that I tell my
32:09
Speaker 2: audience is as I look them in the eye and
32:11
Speaker 2: I say, I have good news and I have bad
32:13
Speaker 2: news for you. The bad news is you are sabotaging
32:18
Speaker 2: yourself far more bootally every single day than you have
32:21
Speaker 2: any clue you are, that these characters inside of you,
32:25
Speaker 2: these saboteurs, are far more devastating than you realize. That's
32:28
Speaker 2: the bad news. The good news is that the sage
32:32
Speaker 2: part of you is far more profound and powerful than
32:36
Speaker 2: you have any clue. And the good news is a
32:39
Speaker 2: lot better than the bad news. And so what I
32:42
Speaker 2: believe is profound capacity of the human being once they
32:46
Speaker 2: really begin to tab into the power of their sage,
32:50
Speaker 2: we have no clue how magnificent we are.
32:55
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a good idea? And I guess
32:57
Speaker 1: the answer on this would be well, cry pens, but
33:00
Speaker 1: I'm just going to ask it, and then you can
33:02
Speaker 1: just riff on the question is it a good idea? Like,
33:06
Speaker 1: for example, Tiff and I know each other well, and
33:09
Speaker 1: so there are times when we kind of started off
33:13
Speaker 1: as mentor mentee, and then she began to work with me,
33:18
Speaker 1: so there are times when she would ask me things
33:20
Speaker 1: about her work or a performance element or something like
33:24
Speaker 1: that where I can have a level of objectivity about
33:28
Speaker 1: her that she can't because she's her right when we're
33:33
Speaker 1: looking to build the best version of us and recognize
33:37
Speaker 1: these saboteurs and move forward in a more positive direction,
33:43
Speaker 1: do you think it's good to invite people into provide
33:47
Speaker 1: you with feedback purely just because they can see things
33:52
Speaker 1: about us that we can't. Obviously that need to be
33:55
Speaker 1: the right people and all of that.
34:00
Speaker 2: That's what I have done, Like that's what we have
34:03
Speaker 2: done as a family. So when I started developing this work,
34:06
Speaker 2: the first place I held myself accountable was with my
34:09
Speaker 2: own kids. So I told my kids, I said, look,
34:15
Speaker 2: I have this judge sabatur amongst other sabbateurs, and I
34:18
Speaker 2: want to work on it. And I want you to
34:20
Speaker 2: hold me accountable for my judge. And how do you
34:23
Speaker 2: know my judge is talking if I'm screaming at you,
34:26
Speaker 2: if if I've lost control, I'm screaming at you and
34:29
Speaker 2: taking advantage of my parental authority. I am in my
34:32
Speaker 2: judge mode. You do not need to follow what I'm
34:35
Speaker 2: asking you to do, because I am in my judge mode.
34:38
Speaker 2: You don't need to follow what I say. However, if
34:41
Speaker 2: I calm down and shift to the positive part of
34:44
Speaker 2: my brain and then the home clear that way, I say,
34:46
Speaker 2: would you please do this, then maybe you should follow
34:50
Speaker 2: what I'm asking. But and then my daughter, even when
34:53
Speaker 2: she was like seven years old, she always held me
34:57
Speaker 2: accoontole because I'll be screaming, and she say, duddy, who's
35:00
Speaker 2: doing the talking right now? And every time she would
35:03
Speaker 2: catch me absolutely in being in my judge. And also
35:06
Speaker 2: I told them about my other savators, and in so doing,
35:10
Speaker 2: I was not just holding myself accountable, but also creating
35:15
Speaker 2: an environment in which my kids and my wife got
35:18
Speaker 2: to witness what's possible in this transformation of a human being.
35:23
Speaker 2: Saying I'm not perfect. I have these nasty characters in
35:26
Speaker 2: my head. I want to be better. I want to
35:29
Speaker 2: catch them in the act, and I want to shift
35:31
Speaker 2: help me do that. And also, and after I would
35:37
Speaker 2: have what I call a sabbator hijacking, I would always
35:40
Speaker 2: go back to them and say, ooh, sorry, the judge
35:43
Speaker 2: was doing the talking. And what my sage would want
35:46
Speaker 2: to say is a very different thing. Here is what
35:48
Speaker 2: my sage right now would want to say so. And
35:50
Speaker 2: that's the way that my son and daughter in particular
35:54
Speaker 2: got to be so inspired by this framework that they
35:57
Speaker 2: are not practicing it themselves. So my daughter, who's twenty
36:01
Speaker 2: five years old now, I'm living in New York City.
36:03
Speaker 2: Every few months, she says, she texts me this Barchart,
36:07
Speaker 2: and he says, says, Dad, I just started dating this guy.
36:11
Speaker 2: This is his Savator assessment Barchard that yes, what do
36:14
Speaker 2: you think, Let's talk about it. It's just fascinating because
36:17
Speaker 2: it is so helpful for her in helping to understand
36:20
Speaker 2: other human beings unrelated to them better. And it also
36:24
Speaker 2: I was holding myself accountable and modeled it.
36:27
Speaker 1: I love that. Imagine that first date where you say,
36:30
Speaker 1: before we go to the second date, you're going to
36:32
Speaker 1: have to fill out this online test that my dad created,
36:35
Speaker 1: and depending on the data, and depending on a subsequent
36:39
Speaker 1: discussion about your data with my dad, there may or
36:42
Speaker 1: may not be a second date. That'd be so good.
36:46
Speaker 1: I would love that. Oh my goodness, that'd be an
36:49
Speaker 1: interesting family dynamic. This is what I feel about something,
36:56
Speaker 1: and I want to know what you feel. I feel
36:59
Speaker 1: like because I'm I've been working for forty three years,
37:03
Speaker 1: right since I was eighteen, So forty three years of work.
37:06
Speaker 1: I'm sixty one, and I feel like less than ever
37:10
Speaker 1: people actually want feedback. I feel like we say we
37:16
Speaker 1: want feedback, but what we really want is praise. What
37:19
Speaker 1: we really want is endorsement. And so when you know,
37:24
Speaker 1: invited to give it depends on the situation, of course, circumstance, environment, person,
37:30
Speaker 1: but being able to give people real feedback that's coming
37:34
Speaker 1: from a good place, that's as objective as I can be.
37:37
Speaker 1: I think sometimes when we tell people what we truly see,
37:42
Speaker 1: if it isn't what they want to hear, they shut down.
37:46
Speaker 1: So talk to us a little bit about giving feedback
37:50
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five.
37:54
Speaker 2: And this goes to the whole idea of how do
37:58
Speaker 2: you get somebody to want to do the work and
38:01
Speaker 2: change themselves. And we can't get people to want to
38:06
Speaker 2: change by confronting them, by pushing them, by you know,
38:13
Speaker 2: wanting them to wake up and change, and we disciplined
38:18
Speaker 2: and all of that stuff, and because what's going on
38:21
Speaker 2: is that when we do those things inadvertently, we are
38:27
Speaker 2: energizing their saboteurs. And as we energize somebody Sabbators that
38:32
Speaker 2: are even more likely that they will want to avoid
38:35
Speaker 2: changing anything because that Sabators are interested in survival. So
38:39
Speaker 2: the most important thing is we need to energize somebody's stage.
38:43
Speaker 2: Not sabatur have the stage in them, see the possibility
38:48
Speaker 2: for that for who they are. And often what I
38:51
Speaker 2: tell people is that's why when I start by saying
38:55
Speaker 2: I have bad news. But if all I have for
38:58
Speaker 2: you is the bad news, you're not going to want
38:59
Speaker 2: to and you're going to run away. I have really awesome, awesome,
39:03
Speaker 2: awesome news, which is how extraordinary your stage is. And
39:07
Speaker 2: in that I even tell people, you know, I'm not
39:09
Speaker 2: here to change you. I'm here to hope you remember
39:12
Speaker 2: who you truly are. Because my son and my daughter,
39:17
Speaker 2: when they were born, they were born with extraordinarily beautiful
39:20
Speaker 2: essence beings, and those two essences were completely different from
39:24
Speaker 2: each other. Each person is born as a unique beautiful
39:29
Speaker 2: essence being, unique as their fingerprints. And one of the
39:33
Speaker 2: most important things I want to help people do is
39:35
Speaker 2: remember who they are in their gorgeous, beautiful essence being
39:40
Speaker 2: and by the way, that essence being never changes. And
39:44
Speaker 2: I play this I play this game with my son
39:50
Speaker 2: likes tickling. My daughter didn't like tickling. But I played
39:52
Speaker 2: this game with my son. I had recognized that one
39:55
Speaker 2: of the biggest problems with people is that they grow
39:58
Speaker 2: up feeling conductiontionally loved. I am conditionally loved if I
40:02
Speaker 2: do well, if I do the right things, if I
40:06
Speaker 2: I'm good in sports or whatever. So unconditional love is worthless,
40:10
Speaker 2: and so conditions a conditional love is worthless. Unconditional love
40:14
Speaker 2: is about being loved for your essence. So in order
40:17
Speaker 2: to make sure my son didn't grow up with conditional
40:20
Speaker 2: love and he knew how to love himself, I played
40:24
Speaker 2: this tickling game with him, where I would I taught
40:27
Speaker 2: him to give me all the right answers, so I
40:30
Speaker 2: would stop tickling himself start tickling him and say, so, kem,
40:33
Speaker 2: why I love you so much? And he had learned
40:35
Speaker 2: to say and he would say, I don't know that
40:37
Speaker 2: he idea love me so much. And I would take
40:39
Speaker 2: him some more and say, well, is it because you
40:41
Speaker 2: are so handsome? And he is very handsome. It looks
40:43
Speaker 2: like my wife and him say no, that it's not
40:46
Speaker 2: because I'm handsome, taking him some more, Is it because
40:49
Speaker 2: you're so good in sports? Know that it's not because
40:52
Speaker 2: of that. Is it because you're so good in math
40:54
Speaker 2: and literature and whatever. No, that is not because of that.
40:56
Speaker 2: Is it because you're so kind of generous? No, that
40:58
Speaker 2: is not so. At the end, I would faint great frustration.
41:03
Speaker 2: I would say, so, why is it, John, why do
41:05
Speaker 2: I love you so much? And he had learned to
41:07
Speaker 2: say and he would say, that is because I am me.
41:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's beautiful.
41:16
Speaker 2: That is because okay. I would ask him, so what
41:20
Speaker 2: does that mean? And he would say, you know, my
41:23
Speaker 2: true self is the person you held in the hospital.
41:25
Speaker 2: That person has never changed, will never change. I don't
41:27
Speaker 2: have to perform for it. I don't have to do
41:29
Speaker 2: anything for it. I am that person, and so in
41:32
Speaker 2: that I think the most important work here is that
41:36
Speaker 2: the Sabbateurs have created the false identity of us. They
41:40
Speaker 2: have told us a different version of who they say
41:44
Speaker 2: we are. And as we quiet the voice of these Sabaturs,
41:48
Speaker 2: we begin to see the beautiful, true ess and self
41:51
Speaker 2: that we are, and we fall in love with ourselves
41:54
Speaker 2: and what I One of the ways I talk about
41:56
Speaker 2: our work is I want to help you move from
41:59
Speaker 2: the self brute metality of your saboteurs the unconditional self
42:03
Speaker 2: love of your sage. And that's the good news that
42:07
Speaker 2: that sage is profound, beautiful and has everything that you
42:11
Speaker 2: need in or to be very happy and very successful.
42:14
Speaker 2: And it starts by being less of our false self.
42:17
Speaker 2: Who are the sabators?
42:20
Speaker 1: I love it? Hey, tip before we wind up, what's
42:23
Speaker 1: what's at the top of your self sabaturist or your
42:26
Speaker 1: sabatur list? What do you? What do you?
42:28
Speaker 3: I've already done that, I've already done.
42:30
Speaker 1: The Oh you've done the test.
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Speaker 3: Yep, we've done it. Hyperachiever and the restless at my
42:36
Speaker 3: top two?
42:38
Speaker 1: Really, so what is hyperachiever?
42:43
Speaker 3: Yeah?
42:44
Speaker 1: And and restless? Well, we've got the guru here with us.
42:49
Speaker 1: He might as well unpack that with you a little bit.
42:52
Speaker 1: What have you got a question based on that?
42:55
Speaker 3: Fix me?
42:58
Speaker 1: I think that's an instruction. You got a question?
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Speaker 3: Well, I want to go in and read more about
43:05
Speaker 3: it now. I'm really interested.
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Speaker 2: Well, Tiffany, the hyperachiever that the reason we put the
43:12
Speaker 2: hyper in front of it is being an achiever is
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Speaker 2: really awesome, It's wonderful. And the hyper achiever is the
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Speaker 2: part that has your self love be completely conditioned on
43:24
Speaker 2: your achievement. And the problem with the hyperachiever is that
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Speaker 2: there is never enough achievement for you to feel validated
43:32
Speaker 2: enough to love yourself. So the hyperachiever, you know, sets
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Speaker 2: this big target and you have to climb this mountain,
43:38
Speaker 2: and you work really hard to clim in mound and
43:40
Speaker 2: get to the top. Then the hyperachiever allows you to
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Speaker 2: celebrate for I don't know, a minute an hour a
43:46
Speaker 2: day if you're lucky, and then it says, well, that's
43:48
Speaker 2: not enough to that was the old achievement. Now you
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Speaker 2: have achieve this for me so you can be worthy
43:53
Speaker 2: of love and respect. And most hyperachievers, the problem is
43:57
Speaker 2: the hyperchiever takes you to the graves still setting new
44:01
Speaker 2: conditions for you to prove to yourself that you're worthy
44:05
Speaker 2: of love. And so the big thing we want for
44:07
Speaker 2: the hyper achieve is very much to disconnect your self
44:12
Speaker 2: love from your most recent achievement, so that you can
44:16
Speaker 2: look yourself in the mirror even at the end of
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Speaker 2: the day when you have made a mess of things,
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Speaker 2: and feel deep, unconditional self love for yourself, and then
44:24
Speaker 2: absolutely go after your achievements, but have the achievement, be
44:27
Speaker 2: joyful and enjoy the steps towards the achievement, not just
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Speaker 2: wait for the achievement, and as you are present to
44:34
Speaker 2: every step. The game you're playing is inherently valuable and useful,
44:39
Speaker 2: not just because of the outcome, because but the game
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Speaker 2: itself is inherently valuable and enjoyable. You will achieve more,
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Speaker 2: not less, because you're more energized, You recover faster from
44:50
Speaker 2: problems and failures, and you actually achieve more, not less.
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Speaker 2: If you're less of a hyperachiever.
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Speaker 1: That'll be two hundred and fifty dollars. And that's that's
45:02
Speaker 1: like with the tell you why page. All right, let's
45:07
Speaker 1: just quickly let's wind up. Thank you so much for that.
45:09
Speaker 1: Shoz add so Positive Intelligence dot com, Positive intelligence dot
45:17
Speaker 1: com and also the book is Positive Intelligence. Is that
45:21
Speaker 1: your main website, Positive intelligence dot com is that where
45:24
Speaker 1: we steer people.
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Speaker 2: Yes, and in particular I would love everybody to do
45:28
Speaker 2: the Sabbator assessment, So pasin thurs dot com. Slash assessment
45:32
Speaker 2: is how you do the five minute online Sabator assessment.
45:35
Speaker 2: All the discovery starts there, and then there are these
45:39
Speaker 2: nor science based techniques about how to shift your brain activation.
45:42
Speaker 2: So when you detect yourself in sabator or you can
45:46
Speaker 2: shift to more of the brain activation of the sage
45:49
Speaker 2: so you have access to that. So it's a systematic,
45:52
Speaker 2: step by step process that you get to learn. First
45:54
Speaker 2: step is to the sabator assessment.
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Speaker 1: Wow, sounds good that tift.
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Speaker 2: Did you do?
46:01
Speaker 1: Did you enjoy that?
46:02
Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 3: What's yourself to hearts?
46:05
Speaker 1: Oh, get in, get in the queue. Well I have,
46:10
Speaker 1: I embarrassingly haven't done the test. I'll do the test
46:13
Speaker 1: after this, which is not the right order. But I
46:17
Speaker 1: think probably a little bit of self loathing, a bit
46:22
Speaker 1: of a like I never think I'm good enough even
46:24
Speaker 1: when I do well, but not so much high achiever.
46:27
Speaker 1: I like achieving stuff, but I feel like like when
46:31
Speaker 1: people say nice things to me directly, part of me
46:35
Speaker 1: likes it, part of me doesn't want to hear it
46:36
Speaker 1: because I feel unworthy of what they're saying, you know,
46:40
Speaker 1: So I definitely need some therapy.
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Speaker 3: Any band aids for that. She's at.
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Speaker 2: A lot of the high achievers I work with have
46:49
Speaker 2: the impostor syndrome, and there's a voice in their head
46:52
Speaker 2: that says, your your success has come from luck and circumstance.
46:57
Speaker 2: You're a fraud, and any day you'll be exposed for
47:00
Speaker 2: for the impostor that you are. And those are all
47:04
Speaker 2: elements of the judge. And I believe that the judges.
47:09
Speaker 2: We call it the master sabator or the key one,
47:12
Speaker 2: because the judge starts the whole thing. And I found
47:15
Speaker 2: my judge was so devastating as a character. I gave
47:19
Speaker 2: him a nickname. I called my judge the executioner because
47:23
Speaker 2: he was so dark. And he's basically his staying watchers.
47:27
Speaker 2: Or you're unworthy of any love, of any success, anything
47:30
Speaker 2: that goes well, you don't deserve it. And and by
47:35
Speaker 2: the way, that voice has never gone away. So that
47:38
Speaker 2: judge is in my head every day. Except he used
47:41
Speaker 2: to be a client. I used to trust him. I
47:42
Speaker 2: used to believe that he's just telling the truth. And
47:45
Speaker 2: now it's just a whisper where I say, oh, where
47:48
Speaker 2: have you been. I haven't heard from you for a while.
47:50
Speaker 2: But what he tells me has not changed at all.
47:53
Speaker 2: And the judge is absolutely the number one sabbator we
47:56
Speaker 2: all want to tackle.
47:57
Speaker 1: It's all myst like, when something bad happens, it's because
48:01
Speaker 1: of me, and when something bad good happens, it's in
48:04
Speaker 1: spite of me. Do you know what I mean it's
48:08
Speaker 1: like yeah, but that yeah, like you said, that was luck.
48:12
Speaker 2: We all have that. And the reason the judges the
48:16
Speaker 2: universal savatur is that, for evolutionary reasons, the brain has
48:21
Speaker 2: a tendency to amplify the negative by a factor of
48:25
Speaker 2: three to five versus the positive, because because being paranoid
48:31
Speaker 2: and being stressed and being negative was actually helpful for
48:33
Speaker 2: the survival of ancestors to have avoid all the possible
48:37
Speaker 2: dangers to their survival. And so I mean, when the
48:41
Speaker 2: tree starts shaking, if your ancestry was anxious and assume
48:47
Speaker 2: the worst, and it's always assumed that the tiger trying
48:49
Speaker 2: to come and eat me alive, and they ran ninety
48:52
Speaker 2: nine other of one hundred times they were wrong. They
48:54
Speaker 2: were unnecessarily paranoid, but the one time that they were right,
48:58
Speaker 2: it saved their life. Imagine if you had an ancestor
49:01
Speaker 2: that was very optimistic and positive, the tree starts shaking
49:04
Speaker 2: and they would say, you know what, I bet there's
49:06
Speaker 2: a call over coming to give me a very hug.
49:09
Speaker 2: I'm feeling optimistic today. How long do you think that
49:12
Speaker 2: ancestor survived? So we are so the judge being the
49:17
Speaker 2: universal saboteur, is there for a reason, amplifying the negative,
49:22
Speaker 2: discounting the positive, And it is the number one character
49:27
Speaker 2: that we need to expose. And basically you want to
49:31
Speaker 2: label it when it comes to here you go again,
49:34
Speaker 2: and how isn't a humor? Like I sometimes I judge,
49:37
Speaker 2: where have you been? I haven't heard from you calling
49:39
Speaker 2: in an idiot like a whole hour? Did you know enough? Yeah?
49:44
Speaker 2: So we instill taking them so seriously. We start labeling
49:47
Speaker 2: it instantly like oh there goes a judge again, Oh
49:50
Speaker 2: there goes a judge again, Oh there you are again,
49:52
Speaker 2: where have you been? And then shift our brain activation
49:57
Speaker 2: to a different place. There the judge is incredibly system.
50:01
Speaker 1: I think there's I think that like in me, there's
50:06
Speaker 1: this almost duality of I can intellectually know that I
50:13
Speaker 1: did a good job or I'm good enough. I can
50:15
Speaker 1: know that because I've got data or evidence or whatever,
50:19
Speaker 1: right feedback forms from an audience. Right, So I know
50:23
Speaker 1: I did well, but at the same time feel not
50:27
Speaker 1: good enough. So these two things can coexist in the
50:30
Speaker 1: one human where you know something to be true, like
50:35
Speaker 1: I did a good job with this particular thing. I'm
50:38
Speaker 1: not a dud. I'm not a failure while also feeling
50:42
Speaker 1: concurrently like a failure, which is a really interesting mix.
50:47
Speaker 2: And really the reason for it is that the saboteurs
50:53
Speaker 2: and the saboteurs tend to live in regions of brain
51:01
Speaker 2: that also where a lot of the thinking mind is
51:04
Speaker 2: and the ruminating mind the other pilot mind the same.
51:09
Speaker 2: And so the harder you think, the less access you
51:12
Speaker 2: have to the feelings you want to have, which is
51:15
Speaker 2: feelings of self love and compassion, which is a whole
51:19
Speaker 2: different part of your brain. And so what we teach
51:23
Speaker 2: people is shifting brain activation. So if I'm not feeling
51:29
Speaker 2: good about myself right and trying to think my way
51:32
Speaker 2: out of that problem and think so that I feel differently,
51:37
Speaker 2: I need to shift my brain activation. And we do
51:40
Speaker 2: these with ten second exercises that we call the cure apps,
51:43
Speaker 2: and the most popular version that people love is and
51:48
Speaker 2: if we can practice it together, So if you take
51:51
Speaker 2: two fingertips and gently rub two fingertips against each other
51:55
Speaker 2: with such attention that you can feel the fingertip bridges
51:58
Speaker 2: on both fingers. Yea, with such attention you can feel
52:03
Speaker 2: the finger to bridges on both fingers. So if you
52:07
Speaker 2: do ten seconds of that, yeah, we just did. If
52:11
Speaker 2: you had your head under a functional MRI machine, you'd
52:14
Speaker 2: notice that it's ever so quiet, so slightly quite the
52:17
Speaker 2: region of your brain that where these feelings are being
52:20
Speaker 2: upset and stress and shame and shame and guilt and
52:23
Speaker 2: all these things, ever so slightly energize a part of
52:27
Speaker 2: your brain where where you are able to feel empathy
52:29
Speaker 2: and love and compassion and so much of this work
52:33
Speaker 2: is about shifting brain activation and rewiring the brain right
52:37
Speaker 2: and trying to think our way from one state of
52:40
Speaker 2: being to another state. Thinking is not going to get
52:43
Speaker 2: you there. Yeah, I love shut in percent eighty percent
52:49
Speaker 2: of that. This is about muscle building.
52:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, now that you've been so good, we've got
52:54
Speaker 1: to get you back. So can you come back another
52:57
Speaker 1: day and we do the ten saboteurs? Can we unpack them? Yeah,
53:03
Speaker 1: it'll be glad to Yeah, we'll do that one day.
53:06
Speaker 1: We'll give you. We'll give you a break from me,
53:08
Speaker 1: because everyone needs a break after they've had a bit
53:10
Speaker 1: of me. So Positive Intelligence dot Com. The book is
53:15
Speaker 1: called Positive Intelligence. She's ad it's been a pleasure. Thank
53:19
Speaker 1: you so much for being on the You project. Loved
53:22
Speaker 1: having you. Appreciate your time and wisdom and beautiful nature.
53:28
Speaker 1: Thanks for being part of the experience here. We loved it.
53:32
Speaker 2: Wonderful Craig, this was a wonderful conversation I enjoyed myself actually,
53:36
Speaker 2: and Deviani it was great to meet you too.
53:39
Speaker 1: Thank you.