Latest / The Morning Edition / The best and worst moments of the World Cup

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The best and worst moments of the World Cup · The Morning Edition

• 0:07
  S1: For decades, the World Cup has carried fans from all
• 0:11
  S1: over the world to great heights of unity and joy
• 0:14
  S1: in a way that is perhaps unique to an event
• 0:17
  S1: that sees strangers drinking a foreign pub dry together and
• 0:21
  S1: reveling in the strange and wonderful offerings at the local
• 0:24
  S1: grocery store while witnessing incredible feats of football. But a
• 0:32
  S1: maelstrom of complications threatened the sense of inclusion this year,
• 0:36
  S1: not least of all because for the first time, one
• 0:39
  S1: team's country is currently at war with its host country.
• 0:43
  S1: I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to The Morning
• 0:46
  S1: Edition from The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. Today,
• 0:51
  S1: deputy and investigations editor Nick Ralston on the joy and
• 0:55
  S1: tension he witnessed on the ground at World Cup matches
• 0:58
  S1: in the United States and Canada. And yes, that viral
• 1:02
  S1: Aussie chant about Donald Trump. It's July the 15th. Welcome, Nick,
• 1:12
  S1: back to the podcast.
• 1:13
  S2: It's good to be here.
• 1:15
  S1: Okay. Now, you just spent a month going to World
• 1:18
  S1: Cup games in the US, also in Canada. And I
• 1:21
  S1: just wanted to ask you, what was the expectation as
• 1:23
  S1: you were heading over there? Like was this expectation that
• 1:27
  S1: that this event in particular brings people together from all
• 1:29
  S1: around the world, unites them in some way?
• 1:32
  S2: Well, FIFA likes to promote itself as football unites. I
• 1:35
  S2: think there was sort of a bit of apprehension, a
• 1:38
  S2: bit of angst about how the 2026 FIFA World Cup
• 1:41
  S2: would probably play out. You know, the World Cup's got
• 1:44
  S2: a long history of sort of having this political overtones.
• 1:48
  S2: You know, you go back to 1930, even when the
• 1:51
  S2: very first World Cup tournament that was hosted by Uruguay
• 1:53
  S2: was sort of used as a nation building sort of
• 1:56
  S2: exercise that had sort of, you know, three decades or
• 1:59
  S2: so of Civil War. And then they get to host this,
• 2:01
  S2: you know, first ever world football tournament, which they also
• 2:05
  S2: famously won. You go to sort of 1934, where Mussolini
• 2:10
  S2: used it as a bit of a propaganda tool for
• 2:12
  S2: his fascist regime. I think there's even sort of reports of, uh,
• 2:15
  S2: it being sort of the first World Cup where there
• 2:17
  S2: was World Cup merchandise, where the fascist logo appeared on
• 2:21
  S2: some of that. Um, you know, and it's got a
• 2:23
  S2: long history of sort of being this, uh, uh, political
• 2:26
  S2: device as well as a footballing one. You know, 1978,
• 2:29
  S2: I think is the most controversial World Cup, uh, where
• 2:32
  S2: the military junta in Argentina, you know, there was corruption,
• 2:36
  S2: you know, match fixing and sort of seen as a
• 2:39
  S2: sort of a form of sports washing before it was
• 2:42
  S2: really a phrase back then to sort of try and
• 2:44
  S2: legitimize the regime there that was also sort of, you know,
• 2:47
  S2: oppressing and killing, uh, a number of its opponents. And then,
• 2:51
  S2: you know, more recent times you had Russia in 2018,
• 2:55
  S2: which was obviously a controversial choice as Putin tried to
• 2:58
  S2: sort of show Russia as this, you know, open, modern, uh, accepting, uh, society, uh,
• 3:04
  S2: with all the other sort of, uh, stuff playing out
• 3:07
  S2: in the background. And then Qatar, which had its own,
• 3:09
  S2: you know, it was the sort of real sportswashing tournament
• 3:12
  S2: as it tried to become a legitimate host nation. So
• 3:15
  S2: 2026 was awarded, I think, in 2016, ten years ago.
• 3:19
  S2: And I think at the time, everyone was sort of
• 3:21
  S2: expecting that a return to North America, the US had
• 3:25
  S2: hosted the tournament, uh, quite famously in 1994. I think
• 3:29
  S2: everyone thought the 2026 was going to be a return
• 3:31
  S2: to sort of some sort of normality, or at least
• 3:34
  S2: some sort of, um, a more simple way of, of
• 3:37
  S2: hosting a tournament. They weren't going to build big new stadiums.
• 3:40
  S2: They were going to use existing infrastructure. It was going
• 3:43
  S2: to be shared across three countries, sort of united all together.
• 3:47
  S2: But a lot happened in those ten years since, uh,
• 3:50
  S2: North America and North America were awarded it. And so
• 3:53
  S2: I think, look, I think myself flying into North America,
• 3:57
  S2: there was sort of apprehension about what to expect. A
• 4:00
  S2: lot was made about visas. There was a lot made
• 4:03
  S2: about ticket prices, about just general expenses towards this World
• 4:07
  S2: Cup and how it would go. It wasn't helped. I
• 4:10
  S2: think on the eve of the tournament, I think even
• 4:12
  S2: the day or two days before it kicked off, the
• 4:14
  S2: US rejected the visa application for a Somali refugee who
• 4:19
  S2: had been appointed by FIFA. Sort of. One of the
• 4:21
  S2: top referees in Africa was told he wasn't allowed into
• 4:24
  S2: the country. And I think everyone was sort of bracing
• 4:26
  S2: themselves as to what to expect. But as the World
• 4:31
  S2: Cup's known to do, once the sort of the first
• 4:33
  S2: whistle goes, and once we started watching, you know, Mexico
• 4:36
  S2: play in the Azteca Stadium in Mexico City against South Africa, uh,
• 4:40
  S2: you know, early goals, lots of red cards. The focus
• 4:44
  S2: very quickly turned to football. And I think, uh, for
• 4:48
  S2: much of the four weeks so far, the focus has
• 4:51
  S2: really been on football with, you know, with a few exceptions.
• 4:54
  S1: Okay. So can you tell us, I guess, some of
• 4:56
  S1: the moments that you witnessed on the ground that really
• 4:58
  S1: did sort of bring about a unity or perhaps celebration
• 5:02
  S1: of fans from different teams or, you know, sporting solidarity
• 5:05
  S1: or moments like, were there many moments like that on
• 5:08
  S1: the ground despite all of what you've just said, which is,
• 5:11
  S1: you know, slight feelings of trepidation given the Trump administration's
• 5:15
  S1: restrictive immigration policies and people being denied visas. Like, were
• 5:20
  S1: there still those moments of unity that FIFA sort of promises? But,
• 5:23
  S1: you know.
• 5:24
  S2: Yeah, once once the tournament itself kicked off, I think
• 5:26
  S2: all of that has faded massively into the background. I
• 5:29
  S2: think this is sort of a been very much a
• 5:33
  S2: a fan driven World Cup. You know, FIFA will take
• 5:36
  S2: a lot of the credits. Uh, you know, we've seen
• 5:38
  S2: record crowds, record number of goals. We are obviously seeing
• 5:41
  S2: more matches. Um, but it has really been the fans
• 5:44
  S2: for me as someone who was there for four weeks
• 5:46
  S2: that have really made this World Cup, it's had 16
• 5:50
  S2: different sort of host cities. So it's been very well
• 5:53
  S2: spread out. But you've seen some, you know, pretty remarkable
• 5:56
  S2: things happen. You've seen Scotland in their first World Cup
• 5:59
  S2: since 1998, taking over Boston, you know, literally drinking the
• 6:03
  S2: city dry. You've seen sort of, you know, Japanese fans
• 6:12
  S2: down in Dallas trying Texas barbecue for the first time
• 6:15
  S2: and being amazed by that. You've seen Norwegian fans on
• 6:18
  S2: the New York subway performing there, you know, now infamous
• 6:23
  S2: Viking Row as they went down the escalators into the
• 6:26
  S2: New York subway. And so it's been a very well
• 6:30
  S2: spread out tournament. You've seen lots of, I guess, parts
• 6:32
  S2: of America. I think I was reading before that the
• 6:35
  S2: Spanish team, you know, one of the favorites of the
• 6:37
  S2: tournament have been based at, at, at at Chattanooga in Tennessee, uh, where,
• 6:42
  S2: you know, locals have been able to come out and watch,
• 6:45
  S2: you know, some of the best footballers in the world
• 6:48
  S2: train out there. One of the Kansas university's learned the
• 6:52
  S2: one of the marching bands, learnt the how to perform
• 6:54
  S2: the Algerian national anthem because the Algerians were based out
• 6:59
  S2: of Kansas University as well. The Socceroos themselves were based
• 7:05
  S2: out in in Oakland, just outside of San Francisco, an
• 7:10
  S2: area sort of a bit down on its luck in
• 7:14
  S2: terms of sporting teams. They've, you know, lost an NFL team, uh,
• 7:17
  S2: moved to Vegas. The Golden State Warriors NBA team moved
• 7:21
  S2: into San Fran. So the Oakland residents really embraced the
• 7:24
  S2: Socceroos as well. So it's sort of been this sort of,
• 7:28
  S2: I guess, mix of fans from around the world coming
• 7:32
  S2: into America and Canada into probably areas that they might
• 7:36
  S2: not have been previously. And also people in America probably
• 7:39
  S2: being exposed to, to fans and cultures that they might
• 7:44
  S2: not previously have expected to be exposed to either.
• 7:47
  S3: Okay. So can you just, I guess.
• 7:49
  S1: Break it down for us as someone who's been there
• 7:51
  S1: on the ground, what is that World Cup fever like?
• 7:54
  S1: What is it that sort of brings this spirit of,
• 7:57
  S1: I guess, just unfettered joy among people who barrack for
• 8:01
  S1: different teams whose countries might be at odds, uh, in
• 8:05
  S1: very serious ways over the generations. Like, what is that?
• 8:08
  S2: Yeah. Look, I think it is kind of strange. I've
• 8:10
  S2: been I've been trying to think about this as sort
• 8:12
  S2: of we talk about Australian sport and Australian sport for
• 8:16
  S2: mine is, is very tribal. You know, there's a lot
• 8:18
  S2: of heated rivalries and tension between it all. I think
• 8:21
  S2: there's a different atmosphere, uh, in a World Cup. I mean,
• 8:24
  S2: I guess if you you have to be realistic about it.
• 8:27
  S2: There's probably only a handful of nations that, you know,
• 8:30
  S2: were ever going to be a chance of, of, of
• 8:32
  S2: lifting the trophy. So I think there is this expectation
• 8:35
  S2: that everyone goes there to support their nation, to show
• 8:40
  S2: a bit of pride, but really to enjoy themselves. And
• 8:43
  S2: in the hope that that their, their country may, you know,
• 8:46
  S2: exceed expectations on the field and go further than they,
• 8:49
  S2: than they possibly could. But I mean, the Australian fans
• 8:52
  S2: gained a bit of notoriety over there for, you know,
• 8:55
  S2: obviously some of the chants there was the one which
• 8:58
  S2: specifically referenced Donald Trump and being a sex offender. There
• 9:09
  S2: is also the sort of, you know, we're flying home,
• 9:11
  S2: you're stuck here chant, which they made at the US.
• 9:14
  S2: And there was also that moment in Dallas in the
• 9:17
  S2: lead up to the, uh, the tense, uh, morning lead
• 9:20
  S2: up to the game against Egypt, where a whole lot
• 9:22
  S2: of Australian fans took it upon themselves to go into
• 9:25
  S2: and take over a Walmart and start their, um, uh,
• 9:27
  S2: Aussie boys, uh, chant inside a Walmart, uh, to many
• 9:31
  S2: shocked shoppers on a, on a early morning in, uh,
• 9:35
  S2: in Arlington, just outside of Dallas.
• 9:38
  S4: Wal mart. Wal mart.
• 9:44
  S2: So I think this is this is a real feeling
• 9:47
  S2: of fun. And you know, there are obviously countries that
• 9:51
  S2: go to a World Cup expecting to do well. And
• 9:54
  S2: and you know expecting to win. But I think on
• 9:56
  S2: the whole I mean, you've seen Mexican fans over there,
• 9:59
  S2: sort of. They do this thing where they, you know,
• 10:02
  S2: love to pick up a you know, they've been doing
• 10:04
  S2: it with TV reporters, but they've been picking up, you know,
• 10:07
  S2: rival fans and tossing them up into the air. Just
• 10:09
  S2: everyone's celebrating in a way that I think only a
• 10:12
  S2: World Cup can really bring people together.
• 10:16
  S1: After the break.
• 10:18
  S2: There's this sort of feeling amongst the the diaspora that
• 10:22
  S2: whether or not supporting the football team would also be
• 10:26
  S2: supporting the regime, which many are against, but they also
• 10:29
  S2: wanted to use the opportunity of Iran playing on the
• 10:32
  S2: national stage to have their voices heard.
• 10:41
  S5: Virginia Giuffre helped vanquish a prince and a millionaire.
• 10:44
  S6: And I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced.
• 10:47
  S5: But one of her toughest battles was a very private one.
• 10:51
  S7: It was the worst thing that could have happened to her.
• 10:53
  S7: Her children were her life.
• 10:58
  S5: Virginia, a podcast from the newsrooms of the age, The
• 11:02
  S5: Sydney Morning Herald and WA today, out now.
• 11:09
  S3: We have to talk.
• 11:10
  S1: About some of the sporting moments either that you witnessed
• 11:12
  S1: or that are just absolutely a standout at this particular
• 11:14
  S1: World Cup, because I saw in one of the stories
• 11:17
  S1: that you wrote, you wrote that there was three megastars
• 11:20
  S1: of the tournament Kylian Mbappe, Erling Haaland, Lionel Messi. They
• 11:25
  S1: all scored multiple goals across three separate stadiums. That must
• 11:28
  S1: have just been absolutely incredible. So I guess, what is
• 11:30
  S1: it like to be there to see that sort of
• 11:32
  S1: star playing on just an incredible scale, and were there
• 11:36
  S1: other just moments like that that really lit up this
• 11:38
  S1: World Cup, I guess?
• 11:40
  S2: Yeah, I think that one of the successes of this
• 11:42
  S2: World Cup has been that all of the, you know,
• 11:45
  S2: a number of the big footballing superstars, like you said,
• 11:47
  S2: your Erling Haaland, who seems to have captured the attention
• 11:51
  S2: of everyone. Ah, this World Cup Kylian Mbappe, you know,
• 11:55
  S2: Messi scoring a hat trick days just before he turned
• 11:58
  S2: 39 in his sixth World Cup. You know, Harry Kane
• 12:01
  S2: of England, Jude Bellingham of England have all really turned
• 12:05
  S2: up and performed. We've also got a situation where the
• 12:09
  S2: four highest ranked teams in the world are Spain, France,
• 12:13
  S2: Argentina and England are the last four teams left in
• 12:16
  S2: the tournament. So, uh, it's been, you know, remarkable that that's,
• 12:21
  S2: you know, that FIFA has had that outcome for this
• 12:24
  S2: World Cup. Some may say, you know, well, there was,
• 12:27
  S2: you know, things put in place to make that happen.
• 12:29
  S2: But there's been other great moments as well. You know,
• 12:31
  S2: I think everyone was sort of captivated by the run of,
• 12:33
  S2: you know, Cape Verde in their first World Cup, you know,
• 12:36
  S2: a tiny nation making it through to the to the
• 12:39
  S2: knockout stages. And, you know, even when when Curacao managed
• 12:42
  S2: to score its first World Cup goal against Germany, it
• 12:45
  S2: was one all against Germany. I think everyone was kind
• 12:47
  S2: of shocked that, you know, ended up losing that game
• 12:50
  S2: by a fair margin. But there's been moments like that
• 12:52
  S2: which there was a lot of criticism about, well, maybe
• 12:56
  S2: not so much criticism, but concern about whether or not
• 12:59
  S2: expanding the World Cup from 48 teams from 32 would
• 13:02
  S2: see a dilution in the sort of quality of games
• 13:06
  S2: and and how the tournament would play out. But I
• 13:09
  S2: think largely it's been it's been a massive success. And
• 13:13
  S2: for those reasons, you've seen a number of countries that
• 13:16
  S2: previously hadn't appeared at World Cups get to play and
• 13:19
  S2: and perform pretty well. You've seen other countries, you know,
• 13:23
  S2: for a long time, Oceania didn't get an automatic spot
• 13:25
  S2: in the World Cup. But New Zealand obviously got to
• 13:28
  S2: play again at this World Cup. So there's been, I think,
• 13:32
  S2: the quality of football. And I think the 48 teams
• 13:35
  S2: has worked, which I think has been another highlight.
• 13:38
  S3: I wanted to ask.
• 13:39
  S1: You about something you wrote about as well, which is
• 13:41
  S1: a complicated emotional element of this particular World Cup, which is,
• 13:44
  S1: of course, the presence of an Iranian team when, of course,
• 13:48
  S1: Iran has been at war with the host country, with
• 13:50
  S1: the United States. So what was that tension like on
• 13:52
  S1: the ground?
• 13:54
  S2: Yeah, I didn't really probably fully know what to expect
• 13:58
  S2: going into this game. So this was the first time
• 14:00
  S2: that a that a host nation in the US was
• 14:03
  S2: at war or a military conflict with a with a
• 14:06
  S2: participating nation in Iran. And they, uh, a lot of
• 14:11
  S2: sort of talk in the build up to the tournament.
• 14:12
  S2: Iran qualified sort of back in March last year, long
• 14:15
  S2: before any of the the strikes by Israel and the
• 14:18
  S2: US against Iran had had begun. And there was a
• 14:22
  S2: lot of talk about whether or not Iran should be
• 14:23
  S2: able to compete in this World Cup. Uh, they were
• 14:26
  S2: kicked out of their training base, was meant to be
• 14:29
  S2: in Arizona. They got moved to Mexico. And so I
• 14:33
  S2: went down to, to LA, to the SoFi Stadium, not
• 14:37
  S2: really knowing what to expect. But, you know, LA has
• 14:40
  S2: the largest, uh, Iranian community outside of Tehran or outside
• 14:44
  S2: of Iran. There's something like 125,000 Iranians living in the area.
• 14:50
  S2: And it was a very divided group of people. So
• 14:54
  S2: there's this sort of feeling amongst the diaspora that whether
• 14:59
  S2: or not supporting the football team would also be supporting
• 15:03
  S2: the regime, which many are against. But they also wanted
• 15:07
  S2: to use the opportunity of Iran playing on the national
• 15:10
  S2: stage to have their voices heard. FIFA tried to ban their,
• 15:15
  S2: you know, certain flags and symbols from inside the stadium.
• 15:18
  S2: So I was sort of outside the stadium. And you'd
• 15:21
  S2: speak to, you know, a mother who was there with
• 15:23
  S2: her son who said, oh, you know, I can't really
• 15:25
  S2: support the team. I'm just here to have my voice heard.
• 15:27
  S2: And then you turn to her son and he'd say, oh, no,
• 15:30
  S2: you know, I'm a former soccer player myself. I know
• 15:32
  S2: what these players have done to get here. I support
• 15:34
  S2: the team, but I don't support the regime. And I
• 15:37
  S2: spoke to another bloke as I was leaving who had spent,
• 15:41
  S2: I think it was something like 600 USD to be
• 15:43
  S2: there just to boo the national anthem and to jeer
• 15:45
  S2: the team as they ran onto the field. So it
• 15:47
  S2: was a very, yeah, complex situation. And, you know, I
• 15:54
  S2: sort of sort of almost hard to describe. Literally any.
• 15:57
  S2: Every person you spoke to there would have a different
• 15:59
  S2: view on the Iranian team and whether or not they
• 16:02
  S2: should be competing and whether or not they should be
• 16:04
  S2: supporting them. And, and, you know, many others opted to
• 16:07
  S2: stay at home because they didn't want to even be
• 16:08
  S2: be seen to be part of it. So it was
• 16:10
  S2: very complex and difficult situation.
• 16:12
  S1: But I'm assuming there was nothing like we saw during
• 16:14
  S1: that that women's cup here. Of course, famously, there was
• 16:17
  S1: a number of, uh, members of the women's team that
• 16:21
  S1: were looked like they were in the process of going
• 16:22
  S1: to defect. And I believed some of them stayed on
• 16:25
  S1: after being granted humanitarian visas. But there was nothing like that, though,
• 16:29
  S1: was there, uh, in the USA with Iranian players during
• 16:32
  S1: the World Cup?
• 16:33
  S2: No. And they had pretty strict restrictions put on place,
• 16:36
  S2: I guess, to sort of prevent any of that sort of, uh,
• 16:39
  S2: incident like that possibly taking place. The, as part of
• 16:42
  S2: their visa restrictions, the Iranians were only allowed to fly in,
• 16:45
  S2: I think, the day before a match and, uh, had
• 16:47
  S2: to fly out straight afterwards, which the team, uh, and
• 16:50
  S2: the coach complained about sort of saying no other team
• 16:53
  S2: should be had been subjected to, situations like this. But
• 16:56
  S2: I think that was, you know, in part to just
• 16:59
  S2: ensure that there wasn't any sort of issues around defections
• 17:02
  S2: or any other sort of political fallout from having the
• 17:05
  S2: Iranian players in the US.
• 17:07
  S1: It's really interesting. And Nick, just to wrap up, I
• 17:09
  S1: wanted to ask you about what we might see, I guess,
• 17:12
  S1: at the 2030 World Cup, because as you mentioned earlier,
• 17:14
  S1: this World Cup had 48 teams, and FIFA president Gianni
• 17:18
  S1: Infantino mentioned the other day that the organization is considering
• 17:21
  S1: having 64 teams for the 2030 World Cup. So tell us,
• 17:26
  S1: I guess, what you think might be the risks of
• 17:28
  S1: having that many teams. You know, is it going to
• 17:30
  S1: dilute the fun you know, or or the quality.
• 17:33
  S2: Well, you know, more fans, more fun possibly. I mean,
• 17:36
  S2: 64 is a lot. Uh, I think it's something like
• 17:39
  S2: more than, than 30% of, of, uh, of all FIFA
• 17:42
  S2: sort of countries who are playing football at the moment. 64. Uh,
• 17:47
  S2: does seem a lot. You've got to obviously find the
• 17:50
  S2: facilities and the infrastructure to, to host that many games. Uh,
• 17:54
  S2: I think 2030. We're already looking at a game, a
• 17:58
  S2: World Cup across three continents, because it will be 100
• 18:01
  S2: years since the first World Cup. I think they're playing
• 18:03
  S2: some games in South America, and then the rest will be, uh,
• 18:07
  S2: shared between Morocco, Spain and Portugal. Look, I think the
• 18:12
  S2: 48 teams has worked quite well, 64. There are some
• 18:16
  S2: reasons why it might work. Um, you know, it's a
• 18:19
  S2: cleaner number of teams. There's been a lot of, you know,
• 18:21
  S2: not to get too into the weeds, but there's all
• 18:23
  S2: this sort of maths around how a third place team
• 18:26
  S2: gets through to the knockout stages and, and, you know,
• 18:28
  S2: 64 teams gives you, you know, a cleaner number to
• 18:31
  S2: get to 32. That's the top two teams in every group.
• 18:34
  S2: But uh, yes, there's already talk about how how possible
• 18:39
  S2: it is for a. Well, I don't think, I don't
• 18:42
  S2: think a solo country could host a World Cup by
• 18:44
  S2: itself anymore. And then if you're getting to 64 teams, however,
• 18:48
  S2: any matches that works out to be finding base camps
• 18:51
  S2: for all those teams, finding stadiums to host all those games.
• 18:55
  S2: It's a big logistical exercise, but if there's one thing
• 18:59
  S2: we know with FIFA is that they make most of
• 19:01
  S2: their money, if not all their money from from a
• 19:05
  S2: World Cup and 64 teams probably means bigger broadcast deals,
• 19:10
  S2: more ticket sales, more merchandise, everything else. So if there's
• 19:14
  S2: money to be made, I don't doubt that FIFA will
• 19:17
  S2: take a a very long look at this if it's
• 19:20
  S2: not already possibly happening.
• 19:27
  S1: Thank you so much, Nick, as always for your time.
• 19:30
  S2: Thank you.
• 19:34
  S1: In other news today, Education Minister Jason Clare has categorized
• 19:38
  S1: the job ready graduate scheme, an attempt by Scott Morrison's
• 19:42
  S1: government to steer students away from the humanities to the
• 19:45
  S1: sciences by restructuring the cost of degrees as unfair and failed,
• 19:51
  S1: investing in more fossil fuels and halting wind and solar
• 19:54
  S1: farms could cut 5% from electricity costs by 2050, according
• 19:59
  S1: to the CSIRO, but would increase atmospheric pollution and accelerate
• 20:04
  S1: global warming. And in the past 40 years, there have
• 20:08
  S1: been ten property downturns, with seven lasting less than a year.
• 20:13
  S1: This time, experts are tipping that prices will keep falling
• 20:16
  S1: until there are signs of an interest rate cut, which
• 20:18
  S1: could be some time away. You can read more at
• 20:22
  S1: the age.com.au or smh.com.au. Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong.
• 20:31
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• 20:34
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• 20:38
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