Latest / Arroe Collins Like It's Live / Friendships Never Truly End Bob Victorin Takes Us Inside The Wilderness Of Friendship

Transcript

Friendships Never Truly End Bob Victorin Takes Us Inside The Wilderness Of Friendship · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you run your streaming platforms when
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: you're trying to watch TV. Right here is the Disney Channel.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Over here is Hulu. There's Netflix. There's gotta be something on.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It's almost Halloween. What are we gonna do? Is there
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: something over here I can check into? Why can't we
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: just do it all in one place? Like arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: One place, 21 different podcasts to choose from. From My
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Day of Play to The Choice, The Daily Mess, Foodie
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Paradise if you love your cooking. How about Vocal Defrag
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and even YA Authors? Arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net. 21 different choices in
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: one place. Enjoy your exploration.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Good morning, Bob. How are you doing today?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I'm doing all right. How are you?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I'm doing fantastic. Looking forward to sharing a conversation with
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: you because, man, my God, you've got something here that
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: is really worth sharing. How did you get involved in this? Because,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a commitment here, and I want listeners
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: to understand that.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well... You know, we kind of the story goes
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: that we met at Divinity School, Vanderbilt Divinity School, and
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: formed a group of guys who got together regularly and
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: drifted apart and came back together again quite intentionally to
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: make plans to do these regular outings into the wilderness.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: And we've been doing those for 20 years now. We
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: just finished our last one, our most recent one last week.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: And throughout that time, we've worked really hard at being
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: good friends to each other and thinking through a lot
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: of questions together. So partly by accident, partly by intent,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Well, you open up my eyes in the way of
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: where are my friends from my past? Why did we disconnect?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: In fact, I did a thing yesterday on iHeartRadio where
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I talked about that. you know, we're always asking our
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: current selves, the questions when really those answers could be
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: at that younger self that we once were that had
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: those friends around us, but we chose to, I don't
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: want to say ghost them, but we walked our own way.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: We went our different way because we thought that's what
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: growing up was all about.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. You do, do things on your own and, um,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: you lose track of people. I just spent a extended
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: time with a friend I hadn't been with much since college.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: And it was amazing how much the connections were still there. And, um,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: how much we still valued each other and had to
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: teach each other. It was really great.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Being out there in the wilderness, you're speaking my street.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I live in a forest here in South Charlotte, North Carolina,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: and I grew up in the state of Montana. So
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: the wilderness is a very much big thing in my soul.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Not too many people understand, but what did you feel
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: being out there? Because I'm that guy that I believe
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that learned to love all living things because in that wilderness,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: it's talking to you, but are you listening?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point. One of the things about
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: wilderness is that it sets you in a position where
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: you really don't have immediate control over your environment. The
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: wilderness has its own agenda. And I think that's the
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: reason we're drawn to wilderness. There's something about it that
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: sets us, decenters us, to use a word we kind
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: of like. And we can learn a lot from that. Plus,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: there's a kind of a sense of awe in a wilderness.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: We're in the middle of these mountains and things, and
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: you find your mind wandering, like, what would it be
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: like to be up on top of that mountain? A
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: couple of us actually try that from time to time with...
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: But wilderness is, I think, I always think a special
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: lesson in being human, to be in the wilderness, what
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: it means to be human.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: It inspires me because I've just started a new journey
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: just in January of this past year is that when
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I go into these forests, now what I do is
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I bury a writing instrument because it brings me back
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: and I'll use that writing instrument only when I come
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: into that wilderness. Because if it's going to talk to me,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: then it better be there every time I come in
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: there to pick up that pen.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a marvelous ritual. Um, yeah, I think that's
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: pretty cool. You find it, uh, it makes a difference,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: I assume.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I think so. And I, because here, here's the inspiration
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: behind it, uh, because we're always talking about the fungi
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: and the communication between the trees, the leaves and all
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the grass. And the more and more that I swear
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: to God, just sitting down, having a conversation with God,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: God goes, if you would look past the surface of
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: this earth, you would see more and learn more. Just
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: learn to look below what you think is your path.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: And Oh my God, there is. And that's why I'm
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: inspired by this book because you get it. You understand.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: And we're not so weird, dude.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. Um, yeah, that's, uh, that's an amazing thing.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I think we mentioned in the book that we, we
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: read a one year together, uh, overstory, um, Richard Powers.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And that book is just full of kind of expansive
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: thinking about what a forest is and the whole network
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: and integration of it, which we found really resonated with
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: our sense of ourselves in relationship to each other. And
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: our broader relationships. That is, again, a lesson of what
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: it means to be human in our understandings.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: You're very real when it comes to really allowing people
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: to step into this book. And the reason why is because,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, the quote that you share is just amazing.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: What it means to be a man, a husband, father,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: and friend. I just want to slip one more thing
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: in there because at 64, there's one thing I'm learning.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: You're going to be a teacher. And that's the thing
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: about it. And I'm wondering if that's where you are
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: in your stage is that it's like, I've been all
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: of these years. And now I'm a teacher.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: You know, that's right on point for us because we've
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: been having a lot of conversation in recent years about
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: the Hindu life stages and the one that begins with
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: the outward sign of it is becoming a grandparent. And
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: some of us are grandparents and some of us aren't.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: But this moment where it's a kind of retirement, I guess,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: where you stop being an active participant in the economy
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: and or production and you turn around and you become
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: a mentor to the coming generations. Um, and we all
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: really resonate with that and feel that, uh, that's where
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: we are now, uh, offering what we can offer. I mean,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: we're not, we're not the, the total experts on everything, but, uh,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Here's our experience, and maybe you'll find it helpful.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of men, like you point out inside
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: the book, that men are alone. And one of the
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: things that in many conversations I've had, people always go, well,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Jesus went into the garden. He was all by himself.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: And I have to go, no, he wasn't. He had
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: his father with him the entire way. He had us
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: to think about the entire way. You're never really alone,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: or am I wrong?
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think you're exactly right. It was exceptional
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: that he was by himself in that situation, alone with God.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: And so that just points out that he always had
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: a community around him. He understood the importance of going
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: off by himself and regathering himself, some sort of practice
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: of spiritual awareness. And we all resonate with that, too.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: We love our solitude, but we really love being together
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: as well. So true. And we need both. Yeah.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Now in hindsight, what did you learn in, in taking
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: the experiences that you had with everybody, put it in
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: a book now as that student, because when the book
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: is done, you're a student again. What did you learn
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: in that process that required a, everybody getting back together
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: then the book?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, that's a great question. And I think we
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: are still processing that. We just, like I said, we
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: just spent a week together in the mountains again, this, this, uh,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: we got back last Wednesday and, um, There was a
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: real sense, and we agreed on this, that having this
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: book out there now and having people reading it and
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: getting a window into what we've been doing all these
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: years changed the nature of the experience, made it a
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: little deeper. We felt like we had made some kind
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: of contribution. One of the things that I came away
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: with that we really hadn't thought much about was how
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: much fun this is. Yeah. we have one of the
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: guy's brothers has been joining us in the last years.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: And when we were writing this book, he said, make
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: sure you tell everybody how much you guys laugh. The
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: joy of this, you know, you turn around and you say, yeah, well,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: it's always been there, but now I'm really realizing it. And,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: and the kindness that, that we show to each other. And,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: you know, we, we, there's lots of teasing going on. We,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: we do that all the time. One of the guys
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: and I, and I both played division three football in
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: college and, He was a flanker, which tells you how
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: long ago that was, that anybody was talking about a flanker.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: And I was an offensive lineman, and so he's always
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: giving me a hard time about not being a skill player.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: And I tell him, well, you wouldn't get anywhere if
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: we didn't block for you. So, you know, that kind
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: of thing. It's just lots of fun to be together.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Bob Victorin coming
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: up next. The name of the book, The Wilderness of Friendship.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: This is one that's going to change your life. We
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: are back with Bob Victorin. You know, you're talking about laughing.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you where I had a giggle, and a
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: lot of people across the country won't understand this, but
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to hear that you're a trail runner in Georgia, I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: laughed because I'm here in Carolina. I'm sure we have
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: the same exact type of trails. Those are some of
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the most difficult trails to even walk on, let alone
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: run on the darn thing.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding. The first time I ran trails, we
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: were in Asheville. Yes. I think it was Black Balsam Mountain.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Bill took me up there, and I ran these trails.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I was hooked, man. I've been running trails. I've run
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: a few ultra marathons back in my younger days, even
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: on trails. So yeah, it's, it's a, and it's a nice.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know whether I like the running more or
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: just being in the forest. Yeah. I think people parts. Yeah.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Well, to me, that's where trust begins. And the reason
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: why I say that is because you have to trust
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: God in order to pick up your feet, to get
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: up that trail, get around that trail and to enjoy
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: all the beauty around. And the moment that you start
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: having doubt, boom, down, you're going to go. And he's
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: going to say, get up.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: You're not done yet. Get up.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Move.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Just, just like the, just, just like the leper that he,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: that Jesus said, get up. Don't just sit there on
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: that blanket.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. You get to the point. Yeah. That one
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: thing I like about trail races, you get to the
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: point where you say, I don't think I can finish this.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And then the next, next thing you know, you're crossing
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: the finish line. And so you're at that extremity where
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: you have to kind of trust, trust God, trust yourself
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and say, you know, you know, if I fail, this
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: is back to the whole question of masculinity, right? If
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I fail, I fail, but I really gave it my all.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Are you going to go in this age where everybody
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: wants a fourth dimension, meaning some sort of video attached
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: to it, are you going to take this to a
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: visual podcast where maybe you can get hundreds of men
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: who tap into it once a week and have a
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: wilderness friendship conversation on a regular basis?
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: That's a really interesting question. We're at the stage now,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: the book just came out about a month ago, and
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: so We're trying to get a sense for how it's
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: landing with people. And that's something we hadn't really got
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: around to talking about yet. But that's a good idea.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I'll give you credit when we start to do that.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Can we say that wilderness has maybe a new definition
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: only because if I say that I live in this
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: forest in South Charlotte, people go, that's not a forest.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I go, yes, it is. Yes, it is. We just
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: happen to be invading in this forest. Can we have
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: our own definition of what a wilderness is?
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: That's a good point. I mean, what is it is
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: a certain landscape. Well, maybe that's there, too. But it's
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: a certain maybe it has to do with the effect
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: it has on us, too. What does it mean? What
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: is it? What is the effect for you being in
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: the forest? Well, you know, it obviously seems to move you.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Everything I write, everything I produce is energy from this forest,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: which is the very reason why I have these. And
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I can talk openly about God with you because you're
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: a man of God. But the thing is that I
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: believe that everything that I write has to go back
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: in the ground because it belongs to me in this
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: moment of now. Teach what I can now. Put it
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: back in the ground and let somebody else feel it
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: in the future.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: That's an act of trust right there. It is trust, dude.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I understand that, yeah.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Hard to learn that. Hard to learn that.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: And that, do you not see, that's the reason why
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: men are so lonely because they have thoughts like that
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: and they go, oh, that's too hard. I'll step back.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: I'll let somebody else do it and then I'll step
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: in when they do it and then they don't.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. I think, you know, we wrote this book
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: not as a how-to manual, but if there is one
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: suggestion I have for guys that are thinking about how
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: they can, you know, enhance their friendships, I would say
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: you have to get to the point where you're willing
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: to take a risk, you know, a risk you're comfortable with,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: but a risk nonetheless, you know, to reach out to
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: one of those friends you hadn't seen for a long
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: time or, you know, to extend a conversation with somebody
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: you find interesting, you know, whatever. It always takes a
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: little bit of that. Wow.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out about you and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: everybody involved? Because this is not just a one-man solo show.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: You have really just brought everybody in, which inspires me
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: when there are collaborations.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a unique thing. I mean, it took maybe
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: 20 years to get to the point where we could
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: do this. Wow. the you know the the cooperation involved
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: and and sometimes we had to say to each other
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: well i think you should do this differently and uh
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: and again that that's a marker of the level of
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: trust we have in each other and um it's really
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: deep and strong and uh it takes a while to
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: develop that but uh i don't think this book would
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: have happened without it so.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Did you have to do anything like what we did
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: there's there's a there's a little thing that we did
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: at one of the radio stations and uh And it
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: was because it was guys, and we finally had to
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: put up a door. And what I mean by that is,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: is that we told people, when you come through that door,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: we're talking about things and doing things that guys talk about. Now,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: it wasn't the dirty stuff and stuff like that, but
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: we at least prepared those that have never been in
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: that circle. You're more than welcome to come in, but
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: just know we're going to have guy talk. And some, dude,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: there were many times we were just sitting around talking
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: about God, but it was guy talk, God.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, that's a, uh, no, we, we kind of, um,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: we don't have anything quite like that. We do have
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: our rituals of arrival to the space, you know, in
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: the mountains and, uh, things we do every year, you know? Um, and, uh,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: so maybe we do that informally. We'll have to, uh,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: to think more about that.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. You got to come back to this show anytime
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: in the future. I mean, Bob, this is, this is
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: one of those things that inspires me so much. And
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I want to help you get the word out there
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: so far, because there are so many men that really
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: need to belong to a circle. And, and this right
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: here is a great way to say, Hey, by the way, man,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: here's something you can do.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we, we hope the book at least gives
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: people permission to acknowledge they need that and to, to
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: give it a try and, um, put the idea in
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: their head and, uh, You know, it's been rich beyond
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: measure for the four of us. And so I hope
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: it will have some value for others, too.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Well, you have yourself a brilliant day today. OK, sir.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: OK. Thanks, Errol. It's great talking with you.