Latest / Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025 / European Patriarchy

Transcript

European Patriarchy · Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025

• Marina Crane: Good morning. ⁓ It's the 13th and ⁓ I have a busy day today. But I also want to ⁓ just touch base with my audience, like with you, because I really appreciate the fact that, hey, I'm getting some, I'm getting ⁓ active, active people who are actively listening to my podcast. So thank you for. you know, in either on a daily basis or just because you're curious and curious minds want to know about things that I have to discuss. Now, to put a little bit perspective in the situation here is like, yes, I'm an elder. So what's that mean? Well, a lot of times and the majority of times when I'm like in my community, we have an elders program. And the majority of times, like I've grown up with other elders, the differences, ⁓ the choices that I've made in my life have made me a little different, not in the sense of arrogance or prideful or go to the extreme of being stupid and ignorant. The reality of it is like the majority of people that I have talked to are academics or ⁓ either in philosophy or psychology or ⁓ just as an artist, ⁓ like either somebody who's read or created books or ⁓ any kind of genre, photography, ceramics, public art, private art, public space, private space. The majority of times when I do have discussions, especially ⁓ with other Indigenous elders, it's very difficult to ⁓ have conversation. Now, yesterday I went to a meeting and it had to do with developers. So the modules that are being presented are dealing with, like the TRC, example, Truth and Reconciliation, and what it looks like for developers to come within SUTENA. especially when we have a $1.5 billion expansion and all the companies and we'll call them cohorts and allies coming in to ⁓ establish companies and businesses here on SueTina. Now, ⁓ what does it have to do with me? Well, I'm in a unique situation where I've got some experience. so yesterday's meeting was quite insightful. And the feedback that I got from the majority of the young Su Tiena, and I mean, when I say young, I'm talking about 30 to 40 years old. Okay. So, it's profound. I I'm really impressed with, with the youth. and, even, ⁓ you know, I just believe that there's so much potential. ⁓ maybe it's because I felt the respect they had for me. maybe because they're acknowledging the knowledge that I have and and that's fine. I just think that if I have the capacity to do and to help I will. That being said though, there's a lot of ⁓ things, psychological things that separate me from majority of ⁓ the way women, Indigenous women think as well as ⁓ I think the majority of ⁓ older indigenous people think. And so I find it really refreshing to be around ⁓ young indigenous people who know words like misogyny, ⁓ anti-oppression, ⁓ genocide, ⁓ patriarchy, matriarchy. You know, terms that... nor like in a general conversation you just don't have, especially if the conversation is just around your children and your grandchildren ⁓ or just ⁓ local gossip. So ⁓ why is it important for me to do this podcast on the 13th of Wednesday of May? It's just sure... ⁓ I just want my audience to understand. You're listening to an Indigenous elder, female elder. ⁓ I don't want to poo poo on anything. just want my listeners to, you know, I know some of you, when you listen to me and you think, ⁓ she's not an elder, but I am. Or like the content or how I talk about things. ⁓ Normally you'd think, no, an elder doesn't talk that way, but I am an elder. ⁓ Even the lived experience and how I interact with other elders is important because we're the knowledge keepers. We're the people who are on the front lines within our communities. our young people look up to us for advice or even counseling, even some understanding of the history of where we've come from and how long and how things looked and are and were and why is it important to keep the narrative going. And for Soutenet, we're ⁓ in a unique situation and the reality of it is I'm so grateful. I think maybe in a sense too it's because I don't really ⁓ engage with a lot of people within my community. Most of my engagements are within the city organizations and in public space and also with other indigenous people within the city of Calgary. ⁓ But I just want to reflect on the fact that I did live in Utah. I did work full-time and go to school full-time, paid for my tuition. I couldn't do that in Canada because, you know, there's just no university towns close by where I could share apartment, share rent and pay for my tuition. But I was able to manage in a university town in Utah. And because of that too, makes my story unique. Unique in the sense that I have a lot of challenges. People say, well, why were you Mormon? What possessed you to become Mormon? And that's... the reality of it. I try to not deflect, but more I try to have them reflect, self-reflection on, know, ritual abuse happens in every religion. It's been around since the beginning of time. I know I've mentioned it a few times in my podcast about ritual abuse, but ⁓ things that have inspired me and ⁓ I wouldn't have been inspired if I hadn't lived in Utah. If I hadn't taken psychology courses or met ⁓ instructors with PhDs in psychology, know, people who have had a wealth of knowledge, this whole wealth of knowledge has always been interesting to me to be associated with someone educated. Now, without even knowing ⁓ like that, I'm interacting with other academics. It's a reflection on me that I'm academic. That's why I wanted to do this podcast. I'm an elder, but I'm an academic elder. ⁓ Part of the critiques that I have on my podcast is to take different segments of it and write a book. Now, there are some things that come with my baggage. There's a lot of ⁓ social ⁓ constructs that I deal with on a daily basis, much like any Indigenous elder. ⁓ A lot of times I think that because I'm an elder, I have this lived experience similar to other Indigenous elders. And the reality of ⁓ all dealing with Nathan Chasing Horse has really separated me from... We'll call it the shaft or the way. You know, this biblical thing like all everything righteous is going to be, you know, it's it's what's the word? ⁓ Anyway, it's a biblical thing and sometimes the imagery of it just ⁓ floors me because ⁓ in some ways I understand in terms of mental health and boundaries. Some people don't have boundaries and even prior to going down to Las Vegas I did a whole bunch of podcasts and even 20 years ago when I started my blog the amount of personal growth that I've gone through in self-reflection ⁓ is, you I just like I've been telling people I didn't expect the outcome. I was nice and settled in my nest. ⁓ It's like ⁓ somebody came and shook my nest and threw me out of my comfort space. That's why I'm doing this podcast. I think it's not out of vindiction or any kind of cruelty. I just believe that lot of non-Indigenous people really have stereotypes against for or towards people like myself. However, the difference is I have a voice. I don't back down. ⁓ Some people I know within my family, they just say I don't have any fear. Maybe I was born that way. Who knows? But I do know that ⁓ what I say and how I say things are important for people to listen. Because whether or not they know it, and this is the only thing that I say, is when someone holds space for me, I have the discourse, I talk it out, I reflect, I ruminate like a cow chewing on their cud. And then finally you go, ⁓ my goodness, I understand the answer. Like I come with this epiphany or this aha moment, like I solved the problem myself. And I hope my podcast does do something like that for my listeners, because not all therapy or ⁓ ways of knowing has anybody giving you direction or guidance. It's basically just holding space for someone to listen to you ⁓ talk about how you feel and how you see the world. So ⁓ part of the whole discussion too has to do with ⁓ the ideology or the concept of white supremacy or systemic racism. I know in Canada there's been a history of police monitoring certain radical leaders in the 70s and people monitoring certain individuals within the Canadian structure. Even in terms of news media like with APTM or the content of bloggers or social influencers. ⁓ That's the trend. And perhaps in my podcast, people are getting some insight into the basic psychology of intergenerational trauma. But I'm also trying to reflect on systemic racism and what it looks like. Because again, part of cross-cultural learning or embracing and releasing and validating and saying, I helped you, you're able to walk now, go ahead, you're a toddler, you can walk on your own and push them out the door. That's all, I mean, it's a good analogy and a good metaphor, but the reality of it is, I was born and just like some of the books I've listened to about systemic racism and how we're born into a system and as children and how we... maneuver and understand the system of systemic racism. The analogy would be like you live in a home that's really decrepit and the roof needs fixing, there's water damage in the basement, there's mold coming out of different sources. So what do you do when that's a metaphor for systemic racism? ⁓ And again too, for me, I've grown up around white people, non-colonizers, call them what you call. Call people whose original people came from Europe. ⁓ Like I've grown up my whole life around white people. And if it's offensive that I'm saying white people, I'm not gonna apologize ⁓ because I have white uncles. I'm not gonna apologize. I have ⁓ first cousins that are mixed blood. So systemic racism, and this is the power of white privilege, that I really and truly believe white privilege does not comprehend it. I really think sometimes I use, it's almost like the imagination of like taking ⁓ some white person that I'm talking to and just slapping them on the side of the head and saying, wake up, look at what you did. Don't you know? Don't you know this is white privilege? And again, too, even in the process of being embraced in that white privilege, for me, I didn't understand it. And I don't think Indigenous people in the process of all this, the white privilege ⁓ scenario, it isn't really totally embraced in the moment. It takes self-reflection to step back after interaction with white privilege. Now, I laugh. And again, I don't mean to laugh. I just find with me when I'm talking about really personal things and things that just... like, okay, how come I didn't know? But really, we don't. Even if you're a white person and you're involved in Indigenous cross-cultural awareness, I don't think when things are happening that you're aware of it too. But for me, here's the definition. When I wrote my blog 20 years ago, my audience was for Indigenous girls, Indigenous women. young moms, like it was an awareness, like, you know, this man is out there, he's done this. Didn't understand the concept of also the attitudes of Indigenous women towards ⁓ sexuality and how they perceive sexuality. I was talking with a lady just a few minutes ago and she says, well, Marina, sometimes, you know, as women were really bad, she gave an example like, She said I'd already had problems when I was a teenager. She said I had ⁓ a teacher that was really ⁓ kind to me. She said, but my mother ⁓ intervened and ⁓ said that he had only one thing on his mind. She said she ruined the whatever ⁓ relationship I had with this teacher because she couldn't see anything nice in it. And again, that's her mom projecting her own issues onto her daughter. ⁓ Now, again, that's just an example, but the reality of it is, when ⁓ I was approached, like, okay, so Nathan Chasinghorse was arrested, and I had my blog, and I contacted Native Calgarian, and I... Hardly knew her and I said, you know, I know you've been doing ⁓ podcasts and interviews on Nathan chasing horse ⁓ Can I share my story and she said sure and and from there ⁓ I think it was ⁓ probably about a month after he was arrested that I did that because I thought you know, I I know a lot of what happened. So we had that discussion and ⁓ lo and behold ⁓ a white person, a white organization ⁓ wanted to write a story on this. Now I didn't know anything, and I still don't, I don't know the power of social media. I only know about social media. So I, even the whole process, I'm still foreign to it. I do know when I get interviewed in the city by the local news, whatever I say, they sort of clip away different parts that will suit their story. Like I know that. So even that to trust people with my narrative. And again, I don't have to worry about this on my podcast. Like talking to you, I don't have to worry about somebody taking what I'm saying and and twisting my words or anything because, know, this is my narrative. This is who I am. So why am I talking about ⁓ the Fifth Estate and their interview with me? Because they contacted me. And again, too, I don't think they really understood ⁓ how far back I had been warning people about Nathan. ⁓ Again, too, ⁓ I had the resources of various people throughout the past 20 years that they could contact. And so I gave phone numbers and information to the investigators to, you know, if they wanted to contact these people, hey, contact them because then they validate that, ⁓ they had contact with Marina Crane. So that was a key thing in terms of just giving information to the investigators. Now, ⁓ In hindsight, like I said, when you're actively involved in stuff, you don't really get to see it. And so after it was, and it took a while, almost 10 months before they actually published it. And there was really no closure because Nathan Chasing Horse's, the trial kept on being delayed, like for two, three years. So there was no closure with the crew that had initially... ⁓ started the documentary. ⁓ However, ⁓ it made me think, well, why didn't APTN pick this up? And then I realized, no, it wouldn't have had the same impact as CBC. Well, why CBC? Well, because it's a white organization. It's a patriarchal organization. It's ⁓ systemic racism. validates the whole patriarchy. And if HPTN did a story, it wouldn't have had the same impact because it's white privilege talking about a minority. And for somebody to talk about a minority issue, ⁓ then they can relate to that white authority because they're white as well. So I hope you understand in terms of my audience, like I'm saying, it wouldn't have had the impact. And the reality of it is like even my doing my blog, it didn't have the same impact. And so my audience, I knew my audience was going to be women of all ages. I did not think and I... knew that the content of my blog had nothing to do with what a white person would be interested in. Because where in the hell would they ever get to meet Nathan Chasing Horse? Or who would ever meet any of his victims? You know, so it was, you know, that was just the reality. But the reality of it is like all of a sudden, because he got, because he was arrested, because a courageous young woman had the courage to write it on Facebook. And for the authorities to look at what she wrote. You know, it just takes invisible helping hands. But the reality of it is like even today, when it comes to ⁓ systemic racism and white privilege, it's so evident. ⁓ Like my white friend, we were talking, and she says, Marina, she says, I know what you're talking about. And this is from a female point of view. We were talking about like my traveling companion, Wachash to Wachde. He's patriarchy. He's male energy. And she says, Marina, she says, I worked with a theater group. ⁓ She said, there were like 10, like the whole production was all female. So was doing the critique and we were, you know, we had a, were on stage and she, you know, was like being listened to and. You know, like she's the authority. She said Marina, I, you know, this was an all female cast. She said, but as soon as this director or not director, producer or somebody, a male walked in that room. says, as soon as he walked in all the female energy just focused on him. She said, she says that that's, that's the power of patriarchy and male energy. The focus was totally taken away from me and. and they focused on him as if he were the teacher, as if he, like everything that she had empowered in them, he took just by his presence alone. Now, what's that? You know, this patriarchy. For me as an Indigenous woman, and I cloister myself in my community, in my home, I'm around Indigenous women all of the time, and very few times am I around ⁓ patriarchy, white patriarchy. And the last time I was around, White Patriarchy, who was a really racist young man who didn't want to drive me home from Utah to Canada, and on the way driving nonstop, no conversation, he hit a deer. He didn't even stop to check the damage on the car. He was so enraged that he had this task of delivering me to Canada. So when that was a patriarchy, that was a white man. So I never traveled with ⁓ a white man other than the one that I went with to Las Vegas twice. ⁓ So ⁓ again, what does it have to do with patriarchy and energy? Because like I said, when you're in the midst of it, when you're in the crux of it, you don't see it. ⁓ And for me, ⁓ A lot of times when I tell people, I haven't been around male energy. Like I'm talking as a female elder and just the reality of it. Yes, I do have a good conversation. do talk. I enjoy when I have talked in audiences where there are academic men, I make it perfectly clear that I'm heterosexual. And I get the odd clap from the odd male. And I'm going, well, of course. will stroke your ego once in a while, it's not uncommon for me. But the reality of what I'm trying to get at is when Wachash to Ashtey came into my home, I had ⁓ some women that were here and I really didn't notice. Like I was so preoccupied by just being his host and ⁓ answering his questions. So the dynamics of what was going on, really didn't click. Then when we got to the airport and I had to check in my, like I'm handicapped. I have a wheelchair. ⁓ They put a tag on my scooter, but instead they didn't. These four women focused on what Shostosh did. This shift of male energy, the female gaze on the male energy, the patriarchy. It's so embedded. And I just thought, you're not paying me attention. I need the tags on my scooter. That's all I thought. Then when we got down to Las Vegas and ⁓ like, okay, Uber drivers, ⁓ like my conversation with the majority of the Uber drivers were minorities. So, you know, I had really good conversations with them, whereas what Josh to wish today was in the back listening. ⁓ Now, even going to restaurants ⁓ and him accompanying me, It was like, like even on the airplane, he didn't sit with me, but he took pictures of me on the airplane. And I just thought, okay, he's separating himself from me. He's using his camera as a shield. This is his artistic expression. And again, I didn't force him to come with me. I'm not gonna be rude to him. you know, he's trying his best to ⁓ bear witness to the injustice. So even in restaurants, people would look at him and wonder like, what is he doing with her type of thing? I don't know. It just felt I could see that shift happening. Now, why am I bringing this with Josh to stay up a couple of times in the podcast is because I want to talk about systemic racism. even though we don't even see it, even though like I don't think what Shostosh is even conscious of the shift of energy that he brought into the rooms. Like I said earlier, ⁓ the whole narrative of lateral violence with the survivors. I know if Wachasta was there, ⁓ that lateral violence would have shifted on me. They would have made petition for me not to attend the court. Like even if they could, they would make every effort to do that, even though it's impossible for them to have that kind of power and control over the courthouse. But I saw that and I heard that in the dynamics of the parties that were involved of like trying to get of the women not to ever show up her face in the sentencing. Now that's why I'm saying I could have been that woman too. could have, those two women could have made trouble for me right from the get-go because before I went to ⁓ Las Vegas I had some interactions on my TikTok with the daughter, not directly with the mother but just the daughter defending her mother and I never met her. She was eight years old. when she was here. And at the same time too, in Las Vegas, I never spoke to her or her mother. Like I'm grateful. They could have confronted me. They could have been, like they did a lot of yelling and arguing with the other people that nobody saw, like the lawyers and the, ⁓ what do they call those victim support workers. They knew about detention. and they had talked to them about what they can or cannot say to the news media, all that. But yet at the same time too, in the background here were these two women still trying to make trouble for everybody, like who couldn't come into the courtroom. Now, my name wasn't mentioned in this and Wachashto Ashtey's name wasn't mentioned in this. And like I said, when we went into the courtroom and like all of course is male energy, it had to shift. But see, I was so just in the moment, I didn't realize like the impact that people saw ⁓ me attached to this ⁓ patriarchy. you know, the focus, energy, focusing their energy on him. Of course they wouldn't come and confront me or call me down or anything because he looked like he was the press. know, media, again, that power of media. Again, I don't think he realized like just the fact that he was ⁓ white and privileged. that just my being associated with him brought protection for me. See, like I said, I was totally involved in the situation, didn't see it clearly. So I've had time to reflect and I realized, ⁓ my goodness. Like, I don't think, I think he's so involved in just what he does and like he's, like anybody, like when they're just focused on what their mission is. I don't think he realized the impact ⁓ that he had. If he were an Indigenous man traveling with me with a camera, it wouldn't have had the same impact. Because he had white privilege, that impact of people not approaching me when he's accompanying me ⁓ was profound. ⁓ I, like I said, I had to step back and realize, ⁓ my goodness, see what Wachash to Wachate doesn't understand is like my connection with the victims, even when he's not there or when I'm talking to them, you know, like without him being around or even after I left Las Vegas and still had ⁓ connections like a phone call, like I think it was an hour phone call. About the drama and the lateral violence that these two women were still inflicting on Facebook against these other women like it's like I know some of the posts had to be taken down because they were so deflamatory But but the tension and the the lateral violence Wichita was totally oblivious to I don't know if it's because of patriarchy or or just having that ⁓ white privilege without even knowing he's carrying this white privilege. Now I'm not saying like, you know, he should be aware of it. I don't think he totally grasped it. I've had to reflect and say, no, this is what could have happened. If I had gone down by myself with no male companion, whether the male was indigenous or white, I think my whole interaction with the survivors would have been totally different. because we're I'm not saying all women, I'm just saying when you're dealing with trauma and you have to heal from all that anger and hate you have in your heart and you're projecting it onto other people, ⁓ you're reactive. And I don't blame them for being reactive. I could not even comprehend the trauma that they've experienced under the guise and handling of Nathan Chasing Horse. Like, you know, like for my listeners and how I'm talking about the survivors, this is the, this is the, how they're coping and the lack of, the lack of ⁓ mental health support is vital. I know victim services there helped as much as they could, but I do know when I had called down to see if there was extra support, and this was just my own, that I was told that there was a lot of cutbacks and a lot of things. that would have been available to victims were not going to be available. ⁓ Again, you know, I'm grateful that Wachosztwa state did come with me, but I wanted to validate that systemic racism is real in the sense that, like I said, the phenomena of him being present in the courtroom. changed my whole narrative and how I experienced and saw what was happening with Nathan Chasing Horse. I was there to support the women, ⁓ whether or not they liked me or not, I was there to support them in any way and capacity that I could. Even now with my podcast, my emphasizing the need for mental health and just for support. the reality of how difficult it is for any Indigenous woman or even any woman of violence to even get support because the odds of having support or having people there to protect you is very slim if you do not have the skills or have the capacity to trust. So ⁓ I'm really grateful that I had this learning experience and to see systemic racism and white privilege. See, this is the whole point is like what CBC did the Fifth Estate when they did the documentary, that is white privilege. That is white privilege, taking the narrative and interpreting Nathan Chasing Horse the way they did. Now, mind you, They had to put an Indigenous stamp on it, okay? And for me, when I was told that they got an Indigenous person from Ontario to look at the footage and, you know, like just like tokenism, I'm going, ⁓ my goodness, why did you go to Ontario? A lot of this stuff happened in Western Canada. A lot of this stuff happened in, you know, isolated reservations in Western United States. you know, bless the Indigenous hearts of of Ontario Indigenous people. But hello, you've been around systemic racism a hundred years. You've had a hundred years experience, more experience than Western Canada. You know, our experience with systemic racism and white privilege is new. Like, I laugh because, you know, I'm 74. Next year I'm going to be 75. Imagine 75 years ago, ⁓ in my community, ⁓ the white people, the Indian agents, we call it infantilization, the whole process, they started building a fence, fencing out the boundaries. You know, like we used to go all the way downtown in Calgary to get our groceries. That's how small Calgary was as a town. The leaps and bounds of a city that's over a million in population now. ⁓ Just the whole phenomena of ⁓ validating that Indigenous people have some words of wisdom or some contribution to the evolution of what we'll call Western civilization. It amazes me too that white privilege doesn't realize the impact that they have. It's the same thing with patriarchy. Like I said, this male gaze or this male energy just coming into a room and all the energy shifting to focus on that patriarchy. ⁓ And again, as a matriarch, I'm ⁓ coming from a matriarchal point of view. I was born and raised in matriarchy. Okay, so that's why I'm talking about systemic racism. And I'm talking about white privilege and patriarchy because ⁓ in itself ⁓ with women who are patriarchs, like follow patriarchy, it's such an unconscious thing that they just focus, they just shift that energy. ⁓ Whereas, you know, I... ⁓ said you have to be born and raised in matriarchy to see or to understand how Indigenous women have been perceived through centuries. Now if that's such a foreign concept, I'm coming from an Indigenous elders perspective. I may be one of the rare breeds of patriarchs who or matriarchs who are talking about patriarchy. A lot of, like I said before in the beginning of the podcast, lot of Indigenous people, elders, don't talk. They don't talk about matriarchy or patriarchy. They sort of skirt it with different assumptions and different terminology. But the reality of it is it's alive and well for me. Like I said, I'm going to be approaching 75. But the reality of it is there are young women and young men ⁓ trying to understand matriarchy and patriarchy is something. It's the reality of what we're giving them in terms of legacy. Like ⁓ even 75 years ago, ⁓ Maharaj Mahangandi came into Alberta to ⁓ on train to BC to negotiate ⁓ the sale of lumber to India. And ⁓ for whatever reason, he met my grandfather, David Crowchild, ⁓ whom Crowchild Trail is named after, and just the reality of my political family. And again, my grandmother was Sue. David Crowchild's wife was Sue. ⁓ My grandmother's first husband was Nakoda, which makes my father Nakoda and Dakota. And my mother, who my dad married from Sioux Valley, Manitoba, is Dakota. So I was raised as a Dakota matriarch, like around matriarchy. It would have been different if my grandmother ⁓ wasn't Dakota, but I just grew up, I was just raised this way. Even if I'm not, ⁓ like I don't have the Blackfoot or Cree or all the other tribes that have married into Sutana, ⁓ my lineage is a little different and I try to express that in terms of who I am and how I think. Even though it's controversial to most people around my age, that's okay. Now why am I bringing up privilege and male energy? is because, ⁓ like I said, I hadn't traveled with ⁓ a white man. Like, this is the second white man I've traveled with in my life. You might sort of think, ⁓ my goodness, she's lived a sheltered life. No, I've traveled with my brothers, you know, but with their families. And again, too, this is matriarchy. I'm talking about patriarchs. people like like if people say ⁓ you're Mormon I'm going that is the most patriarchal patriarchal religion you could possibly embrace yourself in ⁓ my goodness like yeah why did I become Mormon and again that whole ⁓ reality of identity anyway ⁓ when I went I had said to what chosh to a shtay I'm not letting anybody, even my family, know that I'm going to Las Vegas. ⁓ Because I didn't understand this whole concept of just how women see, like they just see women as being, when you're talking about a man, it's like you're actually chasing him. You're invested in pursuing him as a partner. See, That whole concept, I didn't realize was so entrenched in my friends. I just knew that I didn't want anybody to know I was going to Las Vegas. Sher as hell didn't want the criticism of my traveling with a white man. So I just thought, no, I'm not even letting my siblings know. And I expressed that to Wachash to Wachitei. was quite open about it because I didn't really know ⁓ why I was doing these things because I had prepared so much on my podcast in a narrative about my point of view as a female. I'm grateful for how I structured it, but at the same time too, I'm talking to my friend ⁓ in Montreal who's white. You're like, you know, she comes from a European stock like what Josh to wish day So I you know, I said to her I just can't believe they're like the reality I said I said I said the comments or even the attitude ⁓ about Like like they didn't know I had a white traveling companion And they still don't okay. They still don't unless they were listening to my blog But I wanted to point that out clearly because it's the attitude of their opinion of me that I went down to because I still had some sexual feelings for Nathan Chasinghors. Again, they thought that before and they still think that today. I didn't really step back and say, they still think this about me? I mean the only analogy that I can say when I try to confront people to be open minded. said, little libido in our brains as human beings, it's not as light switch where you can turn off and on. I said, it's like your menstrual period. Can you turn it off and on during the month? I said, so what possesses you to think that my feelings for men I can turn off and on? I'm a human being. I need to express my feelings. need to talk to other women or other men about how I feel about them or about women towards like, ⁓ this is a nice looking man. Though I said, know, trying to explain to them, do you understand what I'm saying? Can you shut off your menstrual period every month? I said, so why are you projecting it onto me that I'm so horny or so driven? that my only ⁓ focus on male energy, whether it's patriarchy or matriarchy, is for sexual gratification. I said, you know, there's nothing the matter with thinking about a younger man or an older man, you know, whatever age you're at, there's nothing the matter with it. Enjoy the fantasy. But the reality of it is like it's fantasy. It's not... anything to do with reality. The whole... and I have discussions on limerence and fawning and all that mental health stuff. You know, the basics, the basics and boundaries and balances is the reality of yes, it's important to talk about your feelings because that's part of healing. You shut down and you're afraid that somebody's going to think that you're trash because you have sexual feelings. Like who brings that shame? Even in healing, you've got to feel that shame. I just find realizing that the women who projected onto me that the only reason I went to Las Vegas was for Nathan Chasing Horse. And these are women that I talked with hours about the things that Nathan Chasing Horse had done. thinking and they understood like the victims. Even for me, know, discussing like how I had been a victim. But even that too, the projection of Indigenous women onto me, when I'm going, no, you don't get it. Like, whatever happened to me, I was 19. I've had I've had decades of healing. I've had decades of healing, processing and discussing. my own journey, my own ⁓ sexual responses, my own... Like I said, I haven't been sexually active ⁓ in 49 years. And so the various men in the various decades and the various fantasies I've had, I've had to work through and I've even had to talk to these men. Okay, because again, I'm coming from a victim's point of view, trying to be a survivor. And then even as a survivor, what does it look like? Because the pressure to conform and be the victim, even though you're not that victimized, ⁓ I can't comprehend that. I really don't because, again, I think Indigenous women who just have dealt with infidelity have dealt with spouses who've been addicted to alcohol and drugs and beat the bejesus out of them. ⁓ I tried to say to them, keep your spidey senses open. Talk about your feelings. There are good men out there like Vachashtha Vashteya. Even the women say, well, it was his job. I'm going, no, he's a good man. Vachashtha Vashteya is a good man. ⁓ to try and convince them any other ways, why? Why would I put that energy out? You just assume that they would know. But no, like I said, these two women don't even know about him. But yet their attitude towards focusing on, as if I had an obsession, or I was still somehow turned on about Nathan Chasinghors totally, totally floored me. And even the response, how their narrative was played out after, like the two times I went to go to the trial. I just said to my friend ⁓ in Montreal, said, I can't change them. I have limited time here on planet Earth. ⁓ Whatever therapies they needed to deal with in terms of healthy human sexuality needed to be done at a very early age. And that's what I'm talking about when it comes to elders and Indigenous elders. ⁓ A lot of times, most Indigenous elder women who've had non-violent relationships with their spouses are quite healthy and to be revered and honoured. But the majority of elder women have come from very dysfunctional relationships of infidelity. So my even having a conversation with another elder in the sense that... I'm explaining to them about libido and unable to shut it off. I'm talking about good men out there and how you just have to have your spidey senses open. Also, like I'm saying to these elder women, there are the opportunities to meet good men. doesn't matter as long as they're good men. What I'm trying to say is like, said to, I said, you have relationships. You have people who get married and sometimes they grow apart. The majority of times, like ⁓ how does, how this one ⁓ psychologist in Utah explained it, she says, When young people, especially in the forms of their identity, they go to university and they all cluster together and they're all partying and having fun together and so they're groups of them all ⁓ doing social activities. And within the group, two become close friends and then they get married. She says within the first year of their marriage, they realize they have the same friends. They realize, ⁓ my goodness, I don't have any other friends other than the friends that my wife or my husband have. And the psychologists, and that's the hardest thing, to see them growing apart and realizing they didn't really know who they were in terms of identity. So my trying to explain that to elder women, indigenous women, sometimes I can explain, other times I just, there's no point. But to realize and say, some people get married and they separate and get divorced because they've grown apart doesn't mean there was infidelity. I said, so I said, there are good men out there. But if you're closed off and you assume that all men are, you know, they're slim pickings, well, how do you determine who is? Who, what is your standard? what, I know the majority of women that I've talked to gravitate to men who've had history of being in, you know, have infidelity. I mean, it's their choice. It's a safe choice to have an affair with a married man or a married woman. know, you don't have your feelings hurt. You don't have any commitments. But is that really... healthy. Now I know some of my audience would have a different opinion, but for me in the land of Oz, ⁓ following the Yellow Brick Road, you just don't go off the Yellow Brick Road. There's all these analogies and fairy tales about seeking out intimacy and what intimacy looks like. But as an elder and as a female elder who tries to educate ⁓ young Indigenous women and even older Indigenous women. And this is the critical part here. It's very difficult to educate older Indigenous women. The majority of Indigenous women, like I've said before, who I've talked with, who are grandmothers, who are young, refuse to be sexually active. And that's their choice. But in the refusal of even seeking or talking about being sexually attracted to someone is like a taboo for them. When I'm going, no, you can talk about it in a safe place because I know you're not going to act on it, but yet they don't. So what does that say when it comes to trust? Trust has a huge, huge impact on our everyday living. How we engage with our own gender, how we engage with the opposite gender. How we engage with anybody who identifies with any other gender. I just wanted to put that out there that for me ⁓ the shift of male energy and patriarchy is so obvious. when I go into the city or when I'm around patriarchy. I did not understand that until I traveled with Vothosh to Voshtey. I'd only met him a few hours before. I never really... ⁓ thought, like I never really thought I would spend hours with him. So that like to see and experience that that male that male energy that that that shift that happens when when I'm when we enter into a room, or when we're sitting there talking within a group, that the privilege of being ⁓ a white man in an indigenous environment. He is so not aware of it. I'm not talking about white fragility. I'm and not talking about arrogance. I'm just saying that culturally there's a difference there and you have to understand the difference in order to say okay. I mean it's like that whole concept of like men are from Venus and women are from Mars or whatever the Venus and Mars I think it's the other way around. But that's reality. ⁓ Just the whole structure of privilege and ⁓ systemic racism, it's so overt. It's so, maybe the word isn't right, but it's so, ⁓ unless you actually see it and talk about it and identify it. ⁓ then how do you have a discussion on it? Like I really, I think the majority of people would really ⁓ admire Wachosz to which day, and they have. You he made the effort. He made the effort as a white male privileged man. to be in an uncomfortable space. And the shift that I saw, even if he didn't even notice, like I always talk about when I go into the city, I talk about like as if I'm embedded in a sphere of protection. I, without even knowing it, I, like I, When I reflect back and I know I went into that space. without him even knowing it. And again, using his camera, it's like a shield too. So even though he has that shield, I didn't realize that it was an invisible shield for me as well. But he's so comfortable in that space that I don't think he understood the shift. So, I mean, it might seem bizarre, but I do really think Sometimes when you're so used to being in Europe or around only white people in tall buildings and fast moving cars and subways and the noise of urban life, that shift is so common in everyday life that you don't even see it because it's just, you're oblivious to it. But for me, ⁓ coming from, you know, I don't hear the city. ⁓ It rains. have, you know, a beautiful landscape outside. I live in the country. ⁓ I'm just grateful of where I live and the peace that I have in my life. But for me to venture out of my comfort zone, ⁓ and again, If I had traveled with any of my family to Las Vegas or anybody else who was indigenous, the story would have been totally completely different. And I think the... ⁓ For me, ⁓ preparation with the podcasts, trying to give a clear understanding of exactly how people behaved in terms of ⁓ just the struggles of trying to have courage, just making sure you had support systems in place so that you're not standing alone. I mean, we're all alone, but it's important that people know that they have support. Like even the mom and daughter who, you know, like they had a lot of press coverage, ⁓ the reality of it is like, I really hope they get the mental help they need. I really hope all victims of violence get the mental help they need. Because without that support, how can you ⁓ self-reflect about the way you think? How can you have the courage to self-reflect and realize like, I shouldn't be thinking this way? And then again, too, even when you're thinking in the healthy human sexuality, where's the validation? If you yourself have so much anger and hate towards your own sexuality. like, just the dynamics of it. for me, ⁓ I wish more Indigenous women were ⁓ healthier. ⁓ I wish ⁓ that... Like, should've, woulda, coulda, I can't undo the attitudes or the actions that my so-called, well, now they're acquaintances projected onto me. And this is just over Nathan Chasing Horse. When I went down the second time and I told people that I was traveling with a white man, ⁓ the reality of it is like, no, this person did something ⁓ that was uncomfortable for him, but he chose to do it. He chose to experience this. That's why I'm saying to hold space and to ⁓ engage, because he wanted to experience this. My my in a way like yes I I was his introduction. ⁓ He he did. He did occupy space because I was there. But like I said, how many, I've grown up with white people my whole life. I'm not afraid. But yet at the same time, it's important to bridge that gap and embrace acquaintances and release those acquaintances, hoping whatever experience they've had is going to be impactful for the rest of their lives. Because when do people have an opportunity to, ⁓ my goodness, the impact that vachashtava shite had on so many communities because he asked questions. and from somebody who's not even indigenous. And just like, don't think those ladies and men who I introduced him to in Las Vegas, the amount of people that he had to have contacted. Like I can't even comprehend that. I just know he did a lot of work and I don't think he got the kudos from it, from CBC. ⁓ I don't think he got the kudos from APTN or any other indigenous organizations. But good people are out there. Wachashwa Shasteya is a good man. And there are good women out there too. I really ⁓ wanted to emphasize that too because ⁓ that's very rare. Like I said, I've grown up my whole life around white people. I ⁓ sometimes I've had acquaintances too who I've lost touch with. ⁓ Like I have one I went to high school with never never even identified as indigenous and now you know she's got a business and saying she's you know got indigenous blood well poo poo. Now I have another non-indigenous friend that I grew up with my whole life. But we're not friends anymore. You know, if people... There's a process of white privilege. And the thing is, think ⁓ white people have to really be offended by me. Because I'm not, you know, there's nothing... They're offended by me and it's part of weeding out those white people who don't deserve to be acquainted with me. And the white people who've passed the test, I'm acquainted with them. It's just the reality. ⁓ I help them, they help me. It's just a balance of life. ⁓ I wish I had ⁓ that type of friendship with indigenous women, but I don't. The irony of it is like the majority of my acquaintances are indigenous men, young men. That's the reality. And there are young Indigenous women too who are my acquaintances. So it is changing, but I put it out there. lot of my podcasts, I talk about my feelings and just the reality of ⁓ speaking my truth and how uncomfortable a lot of Indigenous elders... ⁓ cannot process or ⁓ talk about what it's like. So I put it out there and again, I had to use systemic racism and patriarchy because like I said, bottom line is the presence ⁓ of Wachash to Waste and what he represented, just that shift. within that space. You know, even some of the other reporters, when they met me on March 11th, then on April 27th, even going into the courtroom and them acknowledging me only because I'm associated with Wachastewashti or they've had contact with me on my TikTok or on my social media. So I really am grateful to my listeners. Like I said, don't know ⁓ the majority of my listeners on these podcasts are coming from the United States. There are more young men who are tuning in and a lot of ⁓ young men in their 30s too. you know, more power to you. ⁓ Life is good as an Indigenous human being. You know, I'm so grateful. ⁓ for all the inspirations I've had throughout my life. you know, the choices I've made and just the admiration I've had for educated Indigenous people. Like, we're thriving, we're trying. And ⁓ for me to try and educate people about the lateral violence that exists and how we as Indigenous women need to maneuver through it and still find the courage to heal and talk about our feelings. Our feelings are important and however and whatever it takes to get that across to people that as hard as it may feel, just supporting victims is vital. It's the very essence of what our ancestors, our parents, our great grandparents prayed for.