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Maura Murray Disappearance: What Her Astrology Reveals About the Night She Vanished · The Star Witness

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: The Star Witness discusses real cases using publicly available information and an astrological interpretation, and any theories discussed are presented as theories and personal interpretations only.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing in this podcast is intended to accuse or implicate or suggest that any person committed a crime or was responsible for the events discussed unless that information has been established by official records or legal proceedings.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: On February 9th, 2004, 21-year-old Mora Murray crashed her car on a dark road in New Hampshire.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Within minutes, she was gone.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And more than twenty years later, nobody knows exactly what happened next.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: The night left behind a mystery, a timeline, and a chart.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because every moment has a chart.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Every chart has a story.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Star Witness.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everybody.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to the Star Witness Episode 1.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Macy Murdoch.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Today, we're gonna look at the disappearance of Mora Murray.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, we're gonna go over the known facts of the case.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Then I'll take a look at her birth chart and give a reading to see who she was as a person.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then we will make a chart for the 911 call when she disappeared and search for clues on what happened.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I thought this would be a good case to start the show with because this is one of the first biggest internet mysteries.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: When Mora disappeared in 2004, the internet was a bit different.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook only launched five days before she disappeared, and YouTube and Twitter was not yet a thing.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: But people started an online investigation for her almost immediately through internet pages and internet message boards.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Then in 2015, there was a podcast called Missing Mora Murray, and it became a giant long-running podcast associated with her case.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like tons of episodes, tons of seasons, and Oxygen said that it reached more than 9 million downloads in the first two years, which is huge.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was one of the millions of people who tuned into this podcast, and that's where I learned about the case.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like everyone else, I was and I'm still a bit obsessed about what happened.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I listened to the infamous three-hour long mile higher podcast episode where her sister Julie was interviewed.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of rabbit holes and a lot of conspiracies going on with this case, so it was really cool to hear Julie talk and she cleared up some of the rumors, and it was super interesting to hear her perspective.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: But in this podcast, I'm gonna let the stars be the witness.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about the case itself.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Part one The Disappearance Maura was born on may 4th, 1982 at 340 AM in Brockton, Massachusetts.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Her birth time is rated AA, meaning that this time came exactly from her birth certificate.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna make her a Taurus son, a Libra moon, and a Pisces rising.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: She had four siblings and she was number three of them.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Her older sister Julie is very active on social media, bringing awareness to her sister's case.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Her parents got divorced when she was six years old.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: She mostly lived with her mom and stayed very close to her dad.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: She was really involved in sports, and her dad coached some of the teams she was on.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: She was this genius, super smart, a really good student, scoring in the 95th percentile on the SATs with almost a perfect score in math.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: She even graduated at the top of her high school class.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: She did really good on her school's cross country and track team.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: After high school, she joined her sister Julie at West Point and joined the cross country and track teams.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: West Point is really hard to get into.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like a typical college.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: The applicants have to prove themselves academically and physically, demonstrate leadership, pass a military medical exam, and they need a nomination from a member of Congress to get in.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Mora had a nomination from Senator Ted Kennedy and chose West Point despite having other strong academic and athletic options.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Before classes even started, she went through the Beast Barracks, which is like a boot camp, West Point's intense initial cadet training.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Mora was doing really good there on paper, but internally she struggled with it.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was the structure and the intensity of military life that got to her.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Mora was also dealing with an eating disorder during this period.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Her sister discussed it publicly, and Julie connected the extremely controlled West Point environment with Mora's eating difficulties.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Then in summer of 2001, Mora did something minor, I think, but it was super rebellious considering this was West Point.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: She took some makeup from the store there.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was only like five dollars worth, but she did get caught.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: She actually did have the money to buy it, and she said she doesn't even know why she stole it, but she did admit to it when she was caught.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Her sister said on the Mile Higher podcast that I felt like that was a cry for help.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because West Point's honor code is highly against stealing, this became a serious institutional matter, even though the monetary value was tiny.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: So Mora went through the cadet disciplinary process, and Mora ended up getting this punishment that included marching back and forth for hours in a uniform carrying a rifle, which took a lot of her time as a punishment, and it caused her also to mistrack and classes, and it made her grades fall.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it was this long and grueling disciplinary process, and Mora decided she was gonna tap out.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: If she admitted to stealing, she would be excused from West Point, so she left.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: One thing that Julie said was that if she did end up staying at West Point, which she most likely could have been, it's not like she was kicked out, but if she stayed, she would have had to go overseas to war because this was going on right around September 11th, and she did not want to go, so that also contributed to her deciding to leave.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And she transferred to the University of Massachusetts as a nursing major.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Her mom is a nurse, so she likely followed in her mom's footsteps.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: She also started dating a guy named Bill, who she met at West Point, but when she left she continued dating him and they were in a long distance relationship.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: She did really well academically at UMass.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Julie remembers Mara being amazed at the little freedoms that most students would never think twice about.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: At her new school she could sleep later sometimes, she was allowed to go out at night, and she was allowed to decorate her room however she wanted.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: At West Point, the arrangements of objects in her room were regulated.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if she was late to class at UMass, she didn't have to have a military punishment, and that really sounds brutal.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Mora also joined the UMass cross country and track teams, which were very happy to have a runner of her caliber.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Also her nursing program required her to travel outside of the college for clinical rotations.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: For Mora, having reliable transportation was very necessary for her program.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Her dad gave Mora his 1996 Saturn so she could drive to clinical sites around campus.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the same Saturn that she would later drive to New Hampshire and disappear in.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: She also worked two jobs.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: One of them was a security employee at Melville Hall, where she sat at the front desk and checked IDs.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: The other was a work study at an art gallery helping with events.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Things were going better for her, and the move has genuinely restored some normality to Mora's life.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: But several problems were developing underneath it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: She was still suffering from an eating disorder, and Julie believes that it was more serious than people understood at the time.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: By fall of 2003, Mora was struggling in other ways and another incident would bring the police back into her life.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mara obtained another student's credit card number and used it to order food from the local restaurants late at night.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: When the other student discovered the charges, campus police came to her dorm.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Mora was caught, and much like the Fort Knox incident, she immediately admitted to what she has done.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: She received three months probation contingent upon good behavior.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Julie later found a self-help book among Mora's belongings about overcoming her eating disorder and believes Mora was trying to address it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Mora also suffered a knee injury that kept her from fully participating in cross country and track.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: She tried to make it better, but she wasn't running at the level she had before, and she eventually made the decision to step away from running and to focus on nursing.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really significant because running had been one of the most consistent parts of Mora's identity since childhood.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: She was exceptional at it.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: At West Point, Julie described running as practically the one part of the institution that Mora genuinely loved.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: By the period immediately before her disappearance, competitive running was no longer occupying that same place in her life.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Also, her relationship with Bill was messy.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: They broke up a lot, made up a lot, dated other people while they were dating.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: All the college relationship drama.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Julie also said that Bill cheated on Mora previously, and Julie encouraged Mora to end the relationship, but Mora chose to continue it.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Also during one of the breakups, Mora had a romantic relationship with a young graduate assistant track coach, Hussein Baghdadi.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: She had a lot going on, and she was still making future plans right before she vanished.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like right before she disappeared, she emailed a bunch of her friends to organize a trip to see Dane Cook perform in Connecticut on February 12th.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: She researched the show, the ticket price, and was actively trying to get people to go with her.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Three days after Mora disappeared, she was supposed to be going to that show.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: The final days before she disappeared, a few weird things happened.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: On February 5th, Mora was working her security job at the front desk of Melville Hall.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Earlier that evening, she did have a phone call who she said was with her sister Kathleen.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Her sister Kathleen recently got out of treatment for alcohol addiction, but she relapsed almost right away.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Several hours later, Mora was found sitting at the security desk crying and completely checked out from her job.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: She was supposed to sign people coming in and out of the dorm, and people were just coming in and out while she kind of sat there catatonic and crying.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Her supervisor described her as completely withdrawn, unresponsive, and eventually just walked her back to her dorm.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: When she asked Mora what was wrong, Mora reportedly just kept saying, It's my sister.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I've also read reports that her sister Kathleen said she didn't speak to Mora that night.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, she hasn't spoken to Mora since January.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Something had clearly upset Mora that night.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: We just don't know what it was.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Then on Saturday, February 7th, Mora's father Fred came to Amherst.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Her Saturn has been giving her problems, and Fred has come specifically to help her look for another car.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: They spent part of the afternoon car shopping, and later that evening they went out to dinner.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: One of Mora's friends joined them.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Afterwards, Fred went back to his motel while Mora borrowed his Toyota Corolla and returned to campus.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: That night, Mora went to a little hangout in a friend's dorm room.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: She stayed there until 2.30 in the morning.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now one thing that I recently learned is all of the friends who were in that gathering aren't talking.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're not saying if anything was weird or suspicious that night.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: The girl who lived in that dorm room who was hosting the gathering claimed she was sleeping the whole time.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So what was going on in that gathering we don't know.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's odd that it happened right before her disappearance.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: After she left the gathering in the dorm room, she decided she wanted to return her father's car to him that night rather than just waiting until morning.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: She left the dorm and drove to the motel.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: But about an hour later, at around 3 30 in the morning, Mora lost control of her dad's Toyota on Route 9 and crashed into a guardrail.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And this wasn't a little fender bender.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: The car sustained thousands of dollars in damage.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: The car ended up getting totaled.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Police responded and completed an accident report.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Mora was not charged, and there was no documentation showing that a field sobriety test was performed.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Julie did say later on in the Mile Higher podcast that in a way she almost wished that Mora got charged with a DUI that night because if she did, the events happening two days later probably wouldn't have happened.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: After the crash, Mara was taken back to Fred's motel where she fell asleep there until the morning.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Later that day, Fred learned that his insurance would cover the damage.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: He rented a car, he brought Mara back to school, and then he went home back to Connecticut.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: He called her and reminded her that she needed to pick up the paperwork for the accident at the Registry of Motor Vehicles the following day.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: They planned to talk again Monday night so they can deal with all the insurance forms together.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: But by Monday night, Mora was gone.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Then february ninth happens.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: In the early morning hours, Moora emailed a completed assignment to her nursing teacher.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Then around the same time, she used her computer to look up directions to get to Burlington, Vermont and the Berkshires.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: She used MapQuest and back in 2004, we didn't have iPhones or phones to tell us how to get to places, and when MapQuest came out, that was a big deal because we could suddenly drive everywhere and not have to look at an actual map.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: One o'clock PM, Mora emailed her boyfriend Bill with the subject line, hey hey, she wrote, I love you more stud.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I got your messages.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: But honestly, I didn't feel like talking too much to anyone.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I promised to call today though.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Love you, Mora.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a short email, but that line about not feeling like talking to anyone stands out, especially knowing that only three hours later she would leave campus without telling anyone where she was going.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: At 113 PM, she called another nursing student about returning clothes she borrowed and later dropped them off and returned the clothes to the student.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Eleven minutes later, at 124 PM, Mora emails her professors and tells them that she will be away for a week because of a death in the family, but no one in her family had died.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think this message is important because Mora created an explanation that would give her about a good week away from school without people wondering where she was.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Then Mora packed her bags for several days, including clothing, toiletries, makeup, workout clothes, and her books for school.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's another interesting detail because she appears to be preparing to leave, but since she brings her school materials with her, she plans on coming back to school.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Then at 3 15 PM, cameras capture Mora at an ATM in Hadley.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: She withdraws$280, nearly all the money she had available in her account.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: From there she goes to Liquors forty four.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Before making her purchase, she returns$79 cans and bottles to make three dollars ninety five cents.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: She buys alcohol that police later identified as vodka, Kalua, Bailey's, and Smirnoff Ice.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: The receipt places her leaving the store at three hundred forty three PM.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then at around four PM, Mora is believed to have picked up some accident report forms connected to the crash she got into with her father's Toyota.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Those forms would be later found inside her Saturn.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: At four hundred thirty seven PM, she checks her voicemail.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: That four minute call is the last recorded activity on her phone.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Then she drives north.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly where she intends to go remains unknown.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: But we do know that earlier in the day she was looking for destinations in Vermont and the Berkshires, but none of her family and friends knew where she was going.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Approximately three hours later, Mora is more than one hundred and thirty miles north of Amherst, driving along Route one hundred twelve in Haverhill, New Hampshire.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where everything changes.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's dark.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's snowing.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's February in northern New Hampshire.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Mora is driving on a rural stretch of road in a car that her father already considered unreliable.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, he warned her not to drive the car.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Leave it in the parking lot, wait till we get you a new car.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the car that she took up north.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sometime shortly before 7 30 that evening, Mora crashed into a snowbank.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: This wasn't a crash that caused a lot of damage like her last one.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: It really just damaged the front of her car.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever happened was in a high speed collision.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: But nearby residents noticed that something happened.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: One of those people who heard the crash was a woman named Faith Westman who lived directly across from the crash site.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Faith heard a loud noise and looked outside towards the Saturn.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: At 7 27 PM, she called 911 to report that a car has gone off the road.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: According to the dispatch log, Faith initially reported seeing what she thought was a man inside the car smoking a cigarette.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that detail really stands out because Moore didn't smoke, at least not that we know of.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Later though, Faith and her husband Tim were less certain about what they actually saw.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: They were watching from a distance in the dark, and Tim said the figure could have been a woman.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: He even suggested that the small red light near the person's face could have been a cell phone rather than a cigarette.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: The original report mentioned a man smoking, but it was never confirmed that another person was actually in the car.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Then just a few minutes later, a school bus comes down Route 112.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: The bus driver named Butch Atwood gets out of the bus when he sees the Saturn.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: He sees Mora standing outside of the car.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: According to Butch, she seemed shaken.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: He asked her if she needs any help and he offered to call the police.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Mora said that she was okay, and she told Butch that she already called AAA.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is that cell service in that area was extremely poor at that time.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Butch knew that because he lived right down the road.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: So he told her that he's gonna call for help anyway, and he drove the short distance back to his house.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: This next stretch of time is the part of the case that has fascinated people for more than 20 years because Mora was still there when Butch left her.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: The police were on their way, there were houses nearby, but yet within minutes she disappeared.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: When an officer reached the Saturn at approximately 7 46 AM, Mora is nowhere to be found.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: The Saturn was locked, and all of her belongings were actually in there.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Investigators found a box of red wine behind the driver's seat, red liquid stains inside the car, and a bottle of what appeared to be an alcoholic drink.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: So weird that her belongings were there, her car was there, and help arrived within minutes.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: But Mora was not there.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Butch Atwood's conversation with her was the last confirm interaction that anyone is known to have had with Mora Murray before she vanished.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about how small that window is to disappear.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Her bank account would show no further activity.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Her cell phone would never be used again.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: For more than twenty years, investigators, her family and friends and journalists, podcasters, and thousands of strangers online tried to answer the same question.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: What happened to Moram Part two Birth chart reading.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm logging into AstroSeq.com to look up her chart.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: AstroSeq is my most preferred astrology site because I feel like the images there are really easy on the eye.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm putting in her birthday, which is May 4th, 1982, and she was born at 3 40 AM in Brockton, Massachusetts.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm pulling up her chart and let's see what we got.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who want to follow this along visually, I will have the charts posted on YouTube.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Mora was a Taurus sun, a Libra moon, and a Pisces rising.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Before I get into any of those individual placements, there are two patterns that I'm seeing right away.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: The first is the overall shape of her chart.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Mora's placements are divided into two distinct groups sitting across from each other, creating what astrologers call a seesaw pattern.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: A seesaw creates two very strong sides of a person's life that are constantly trying to find some sort of balance with each other.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: When one side goes up, the other side goes down.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: In Moore's chart, one side was much more focused on herself.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the part of her chart connected to her independence, her mind, her voice, and her ability to take care of herself.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Then directly across from that is a concentration of energy involving other people, especially close relationships and emotional attachments.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to explain the entire relationship side yet because I think it will make much more sense once we actually get there.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: But for now, I just want to establish that Morris' chart was divided between two very strong poles.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: What she wanted and what she needed for herself, and what happened when another person became part of the equation.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to C-saw shaped patterns, what's really hard to find balance between the two sides.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: She really wanted this fierce independence for herself, but other people created such a strong pull to her that it always made her feel like she was going up or down.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna come back to that.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: The other major pattern in Mora's chart is called a mystic rectangle.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at her chart, you can see it pretty easily.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's a large red X running through the center of her natal chart with blue lines forming a rectangle around it.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Someone with this pattern can have several completely different problems happening at the same time and somehow still keep moving through life, appearing completely calm on the outside.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: For Mora, this could have meant relationship tension happening the same time as school pressure and money concerns, family issues, and questions about what she wanted to do next.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of all these problems immediately collapsing into one giant crisis, she could separate them in her mind and deal with each one individually.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: That means that Mora still had the ability to go to class, go to work, have conversations and make plans and look really composed while inside trying to figure out so many different parts of her life and things that are happening.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like Mora was comfortable with contradictions.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't have to necessarily decide immediately between one option or another.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: She could have two different possibilities in her mind for quite a while and continue functioning while she figured it out exactly what it is she wanted.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time she finally did make a decision, she probably spent days, weeks, or months probably thinking about it.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: But to everyone around her, this move or this decision probably looked sudden.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: But in Mora's world, it felt like the final step of a much longer thought process that nobody even knew that was happening.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: People with a mystic rectangle can be really good at finding an option that nobody else considered.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if everyone around them thinks that there's option A or option B, Mora's the kind of person that will find option three that no one else thought about.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what happened at West Point was a really interesting example of this.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: We know that Mora was really unhappy there.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: She was this incredibly high achieving person who worked really hard to get to that spot, and walking away from the whole thing probably didn't feel simple at all.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: From the outside, the choices were looking like staying somewhere that makes you miserable or leaving and feeling like you failed the whole thing.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I think was going on with the whole makeup incident.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Mora was unhappy with being at West Point and she wanted to leave, but I don't think that she wanted to quit.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think from looking at her chart with the mystic rectangle, she took that makeup kind of subconsciously to throw a bomb at everything going on and almost to force a change and to force a move that it wasn't her fault, the outside circumstances is what got her to move in a way.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: When you see a mystic rectangle in someone's chart, I'm not really saying that they tend to destroy things to start over.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's more like they find an unexpected way to redirect their life when the obvious choices don't really feel like something that they want to do.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: I also want to keep this in mind as we go through the rest of her chart because when Mora made a move, the people around her probably didn't know how much went into that decision.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's look at some of Mora's placements.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: At the moment she was born, Pisces was rising over the eastern horizon from the earth to the sky.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So Pisces describes a lot about the way how she looks and the first impressions that she gives people and the way she kind of just moves through the world in life.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Mora had her Pisces rising at twenty two degrees.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you can actually see some of those Pisces qualities in her face.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Her features had a softness to them, especially through the cheeks.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: They were rounded and softly shaped rather than sharply angular, and that gave her face a very open quality.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's something very approachable about her.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: She looks sweet and receptive, even though there's so much going on underneath.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Pisces risings tends to take in their environment before immediately reacting to it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think Mora is the kind of person who would walk into a situation and really feel the vibes and the atmosphere around her before thinking about herself, her needs.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: She picked up on other people's moods, she watched what was happening, and she absorbed kind of everything that was going on around her before she really decided what she wanted and how she would respond.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: That can also make her harder to read than she initially appeared, because she was always taking in information before necessarily showing everyone what she thought about it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then let's look at the whole 22 degrees of it all.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be honest here, when I see someone who has their rising sign or really any placement at 22 degrees, but especially their rising sign, I think that's really tough.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because 22 degrees in degree theory carries this underlying feeling of urgency.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Mora must have felt like she lived with the sense that something's about to come and something needs to happen, and something needs to be finished or changed.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Even if she didn't know what was coming or what needed to be changed, there was like this internal restlessness that made her feel like it was really hard to ever fully relax or feel settled.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Underneath that softer Pisces exterior, I think that Mora lived with this surprising amount of internal pressure.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: She could tolerate something for a while, absorb what's happening, and continue functioning, but there was always this feeling underneath that eventually something had to move.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Even though she has this passive and dreamy and almost like whimsical way of moving around, there was also this like sense of urgency.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: She could have been receptive and observant, but at the same time, she had this internal feeling of always being restless and reactive once she reached her limit.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: In Maura's first house, she had the planet Venus.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So what that means is that she has the planet of Venus and all of its properties infused into how she looks and her identity.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that is going to make her completely gorgeous.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: In astrology, Venus represents beauty, attraction, charm, affection, and the quality that naturally draws people in.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: When Venus is sitting in the first house, all of that becomes part of the way she immediately comes across.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think Mora had this natural ability to make people soften towards her.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't necessarily have to push very hard to get somebody on her side.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: A certain look, a smile, a joke, or just the way she approached someone could make them more willing to help her or cooperate with her.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this vibe she could put out and it will like immediately charm people.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't mean she was deliberately manipulating people.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think people took a look at her and simply just wanted to like her.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: There is something about her appearance and her energy that could make someone give her the benefit of the doubt or let something slide that they might have reacted to very differently with someone else.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that could cause people to really underestimate her.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody could look at Mora and see somebody sweet, pretty, friendly, easygoing, and then assume that she was less complicated, less stubborn, or less strategic than she actually was.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Underneath this exterior, I think that Mora was super determined.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: She may have preferred charm over confrontation, especially at first.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of immediately pushing against someone, she could instead like make a joke with them, flirt with them, negotiate, or simply make the other person just want to cooperate with her by putting out a certain vibe.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean that I think she was easily influenced.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Once Mora had decided that something didn't feel right for her, I don't think it was easy to talk her out of that decision.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: She could seem accommodating while still knowing exactly what it was that she wanted.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: She was super warm, but definitely not easy to control, and she could make somebody feel comfortable without revealing everything that she was thinking.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, I think attention from other people could have felt complicated for her too.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: When Venus is sitting in your first house, you're really gonna attract romantic and sexual attention without intentionally seeking it out.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that somebody could have mistaken her friendliness, her warmth, or her charm for romantic interest, because attraction was simply woven into the way she naturally comes across.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: I also think that people would idolize her pretty easily.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: They could have become attached to a version of Mora they thought they were seeing as soon as they met her without actually getting to know her.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that creates a really interesting problem with Pisces' risings, because Mara was already really aware of the atmosphere around her, and she was very capable of adapting to different environments.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Venus made it even easier for her to present herself in a way that people responded really well to.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think she became really good at knowing which version of herself worked in each particular room or situation.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: She could sense what would make some uncomfortable, what would make them like her, and what would keep an interaction with her moving really smoothly.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: The harder question was what happened when the version of Mora that worked for everybody else stopped matching what Mora herself actually wanted.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because underneath all that Pisces and Venus energy, there is another part of her chart that was much more independent and full of fire.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Mora had the entire sign of Ares intercepted in her first house.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm saying is really just astrology jargon, for she was much more independent and decisive than the way her soft self looked.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Mora may have initially observed, adapted, and considered somebody else's feelings or tried to make a situation work, but underneath that there was this really strong need to have control over herself and her own direction.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually, there could be a point where she thought, like, I need to make my own decision, I need to move, I need to get out of this situation and do something for myself.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: She might not have came to that feeling immediately, but once she did, she was completely capable of acting on it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that contrast is really important because people see the sweetness, the adaptability, and the charm, but they didn't immediately see how much independence and fight existed underneath it.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And more really needed to feel capable because of her Taurus son.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: The sun tells me a lot about the person she was growing into and what she needed in order to feel grounded in herself.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: The sign of Taurus wants stability.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: It wants something solid, dependable, and real underneath.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: It wants to know that life is manageable and that there is something reliable to hold on to.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Mora's son was sitting in the part of her chart connected to money, possessions, self-worth, independence, and what she was able to provide for herself.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think feeling capable was incredibly important to her.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted to know that she could take care of herself, handle her own life, fix her own problems, and stand on her two feet.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: That fits so much with what we already know about her, that she was accomplished, athletic, competitive, and used to pushing herself.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: So competence tied very closely to the way that she saw herself.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: But the asteroid Chiron was sitting in the same area of her chart as her Taurus son.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Chiron is an asteroid, and that shows us a place where someone is trying very hard to feel secure, but while also carrying an insecurity about that exact subject.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the area where Mora wanted to feel the strongest was also likely the area where she was very, very insecure about herself.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like was she doing enough?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Was she succeeding?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Could she handle everything herself?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Did she make a mistake?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Did she upset anybody?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: And this means any problems involving money, school, independence, or feeling like she failed affected her much more internally than someone watching her from the outside would realize.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then, since her chart is shaped like a mystic rectangle, she was able to take any tension she had and put it away in a little box to deal with it later.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like she could completely compartmentalize any tension she had.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted stability and she wanted to know she was capable of handling her own life.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And her mind needed a lot of options.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And Mora's mind buzzed like a bee.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's because Mora's Mercury was in Gemini, and Mercury is actually at home in Gemini.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: So her brain was working fast.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: She was always noticing everything, collecting information and making connections.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: She was always considering different possibilities, changing angles, asking questions, scratch asking questions, and mentally moving ahead of whatever was happening around her.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: She was definitely someone who needed options.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if one path started feeling closed off, her mind immediately would start looking for another one.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if something didn't make sense, or if she wanted more information, or if she felt boxed into one explanation, there's a part of her that's already searching for the side door out.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: In Placidus, Mercury was sitting in Mora's second house.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: So all of that mental activity that she has also gets tied into her security, money, independence, possession, self-worth, and that whole question of can I take care of myself.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: I would expect her to be the kind of person who would think a lot about what she had and what she needed, what she could afford and how she was gonna support herself, and how much freedom she had to make her own decisions.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, her Mercury placement, meaning her brain, was directly opposing Uranus to the planets of shocks and surprises.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uranus is the planet that disrupts patterns, it's the planet that wants freedom and independence, and sometimes a complete break from whatever has become too confining.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: When you have your Uranus placement pulling directly against Mercury, you're gonna get a mind that makes enormous leaps very quickly.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like she could suddenly see a brand new solution out of nowhere.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And again, with more, this is a pattern because this is one of those placements that can look shocking from the outside, but in her own mind it made perfect sense.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that is so Mora to me.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like someone else sees the final decision and thinks, where did that come from?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: But meanwhile, in her head, there's been an entire chain of thoughts and possibilities and alternative routes leading to it.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: With Mora, I actually think part of this is why she could appear impulsive, but there's actually a lot more thought to put into what she does.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: But then again, it probably wouldn't have felt sudden to Mora at all.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: She may have been considering alternatives long before anyone knew any decision was being made.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that brings us to the end of the side of the seesaw I mentioned from the beginning.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Everything we talked about so far had been centered around more herself, how she thought, how she adapted, how much she valued independence, how strongly she needed to feel capable.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Everything we talked about so far has been centered around more herself, like how she thought and adapted, and really how strongly she valued her independence.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: But now we move across the chart, and that's when another person enters the picture.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when that happens, all of her energy changes.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Mara's chart is incredibly relationship-heavy.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's a huge concentration of energy on the partnership side of her chart, including her moon in Libra.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the moon is one of the most important things to look at when we're talking about what makes someone feel emotionally secure.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: For Mora, relationships were tied directly into her emotional well-being.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Feeling close to somebody, feeling understood, and feeling like things were okay between her and the person she loved, all of that was really part of what made her feel safe.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the seesaw pattern we talked about is so important because when Mora was on her own, that independent side of her chart would rise up.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: She would focus on herself, solve her own problems, and make her own decisions and prove to herself that she could handle things.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: But then when she was with a partner or someone close to her, that side of the seesaw came down and the relationship side of her energy shot right up.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly another person's feelings mattered way more than her own did.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they were upset or pulling away, that would really, really bug her.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the more emotionally invested, the more became in another person, the harder it could be for her to stay completely anchored in that fiercely independent side of herself.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Mara has several planets packed into her seventh house, which is the part of her chart connected to partnerships, attachments, one-on-one relationships, and who we become when someone else becomes important to us.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: So relationships were one of the major areas of her life, and right in the middle of all of this was her moon in Libra.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: The moon describes what we instinctively reach for when we want to feel safe.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is our emotional baseline, our comfort system, and the part of us that reacts before we had time to think everything through.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted to know that things were okay between her and the person she loves.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: She wants to feel chosen, understood, and emotionally connected.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: If a relationship she cared about suddenly felt uncertain, that uncertainty could follow her around internally until she understood what was happening.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: And her moon was sitting right at zero degrees of Libra.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Zero degrees always gets my attention because it's the very beginning of the sign, and the energy is extremely immediate.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's almost no difference between feeling and the instinct.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So her moon was in the most purest form of Libra.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's this beautiful image associated with this degree, which is a butterfly whose form was brought into perfect focus.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I love that image for Mora.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think about a butterfly for a second.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's incredibly responsive to its environment.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: The slightest shift in air changes its movement.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's delicate looking, but it's also constantly adjusting, moving, sensing, and responding.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I picture this part of Mora emotionally.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: She notices the tiny changes, a different tone of voice, a strange pause, somebody acting slightly colder, a conversation that does not feel quite the same as it did yesterday, a relationship becoming uneven before anybody has actually said that something is wrong.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Her emotional radar around other people could be incredibly precise.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Her moon wasn't sitting there by itself, her Mars placement was right there with it, and that was also at zero degrees in retrograde.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine taking that extremely sensitive relationship radar and plugging in Mars directly into it.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Mars represents instinct, anger, desire, urgency, defense, action, and it's really the part of us that's gonna say, something is happening and I need to do something about it.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Maura's emotional reactions and her fight response were connected together.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: So she could feel something really quickly.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: And because her Mars was in retrograde, instead of her getting directly mad at her partner, if something went wrong, she was more likely gonna get mad at herself first.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: If she loves someone, there is some enormous passion behind it.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: If she felt protective of someone, the protective instincts became fierce.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: If she felt rejected or dismissed or afraid of losing a relationship, her Mars placement would get activated right alongside the moon.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: The relationships affected her body and nervous system very strongly.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: She really felt especially because her Mars was in retrograde.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: And retrograde Mars tends to process anger internally first.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: So she would replay something or question herself or reconsider what happened, wonder if she was overreacting, then try to understand the other person.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: And again, a pattern in her chart, the outside world might not immediately see how strongly something affected her.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: But meanwhile, there's so much happening.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: And with the Seesaw, the more emotional weight that the relationship side carried, the more her fiercely independent side got lifted into the air.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: She still had that part of herself that wanted freedom, control, and self-sufficiency, but now there's another human involved whose feelings matter to her emotional safety.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the question for her itself is how does she stay connected to herself, but also stay connected to the other person?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Person.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And Morris chart was saying that that was a major life question.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because right beside all of her relationship energy, she also had her Saturn retrograde in Libra, conjunctor Pluto retrograde, all in her seventh house relationship energy.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Saturn is commitment and responsibility and boundaries and things that are usually hard until you get older and understand it better.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Pluto makes things really, really intense.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: It brings attachment and trust and control and experiences that's really gonna fundamentally change us.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when her Pluto and Saturn are together in her relationship house, the relationship she was in could completely change her and force her to figure out where her boundaries were and how much she was willing to give the other person.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because Saturn was in retrograde, these lessons are really internal.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: So when I usually see Saturn in someone's seventh house, I think that their strongest and most stable relationship chapter comes around age 30 or later when they've had enough life experience to understand their own boundaries than what they actually require from a partner.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean there's exceptions.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen people with Saturn in their seventh house who did get married younger, but they were in that relationship pretty much their entire life.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Mora also had her Jupiter in retrograde and Scorpio in that seventh house.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that adds a whole nother layer to her relationship energy because when you see Scorpio pop up, there's nothing surface level about it.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: It wants to know everything going on beneath the surface.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like who are you when nobody else is around?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: What belongs to only the two of us?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this is gonna add an extreme layer of privacy and secrecy to her relationship energy.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be lots of parts of her relationships that she was in with people that nobody outside of it would ever know.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Jupiter expands whatever it touches, so in Scorpio, it's gonna expand the importance of intimacy, trust, secrecy, and emotional merging.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, there's this huge difference between what other people knew about Mora's relationships and what Mora herself knew about it.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the most fascinating things about her very large seventh house.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: We have the moon saying, I need connection to feel emotionally safe.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Mars is like, I'm gonna react really strongly when the connection is threatened.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Saturn is saying that relationships carry responsibility and consequences.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Then we have Pluto saying relationships transform me.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Then she has Jupiter and Scorpio adding that there's way more happening inside this relationship than anyone else can see.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when we are trying to understand Mora, I don't think we could separate the fiercely independent woman we just talked about from the woman who became deeply, deeply emotionally invested in the people she loved because both of them are her, and the seesaw tells us that the balance between these two sides could change depending on what was going on in her life.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really the contradiction that's sitting right in her chart.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: She needed independence to feel capable, but at the same time, she needed connection to feel emotionally safe.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Depending on which side of the seesaw was carrying more weight at the time, you can get a completely different version of Mora.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: She could have several different problems happening to her at once and keep them separated while she actually decided what she wanted to do.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Then once Mora finally reached that decision, she was capable of making a move that other people did not see coming.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that is one of the most important things to understand about Mora before we even get to the night she disappeared.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Her chart describes somebody who could process things internally, compartmentalize different parts of her life, and continue functioning while she figured out what her next move was gonna be.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: When we get to February 9th, 2004, the question I keep coming back to is what had Mora already decided before anybody else realized she was making a decision?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Part three The event chart.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm making a chart now for February 9th of 2004 when Butch called 911 at 743 PM.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: So now that I have the event chart in front of me, I'm gonna look and ask one very specific question.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: What happened to Mora?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of going through every placement one by one, I'm gonna use this chart to answer six questions.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Question number one.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: What did the chart say Mora was doing that night?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: We have Virgo rising here at 20 degrees.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Virgo energy is going to describe what Mora was doing during the 911 call.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: And Virgo is immediately telling me that she was on high alert, she was observing what was happening around her, thinking ahead, and figuring out what to do next.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: So right away I am not feeling like she was spiraling or having some sort of emotional breakdown.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important to realize that she was a trained cadet from West Point.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: She literally trained to go to war, to survive in extreme conditions, and to make herself not visible to authorities.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: Virgo rising here is telling me that after the crash, she was using these abilities and planning how to still get to her original destination because Virgo is about following the plan.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that this road trip that she went on was a cry for help or a spontaneous getaway.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: She had somewhere she was going.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the rising was at 20 degrees, and using degree theory, I believe that she was composed and controlling anything emotional within herself at the moment, but also at the same time, I think that she had a secret, and I think the purpose of this trip involved a secret.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am also seeing the moon in the first section of this chart.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: The moon is in Libra, which puts even more focus on Mora herself and the choices she was making.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: The Libra moon tells me that another person was already on her mind.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's because Libra is relationship energy.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: And in a forensic chart, when the moon is in the first house, that is showing me that at the moment Mora was still on her own turf.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think she got into some stranger's car.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think she was hiding at the moment with an intention of seeing another person who was very important to her.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it was possibly the purpose of this trip.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Who is this person?
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna follow the moon to get more information on that.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the moon rules cancer, and cancer is in the eleventh section of this chart.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: The eleventh section does describe friends, social connections, but it also describes divorces and exes.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the forensic astrology rules that I use specifically connects the ruler of the eleventh appearing in the first house with a past romantic partner coming into the subject situation.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: And there are more clues in the chart showing that she was meeting someone that she was romantically involved with, but the 11th section of it all was saying it was an ex.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: So already I'm looking at someone from Mora's past.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna look for Mercury in the chart because Mercury is the planet that really is telling Virgo what to do.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: And in forensic astrology, Mercury is gonna represent Mora for that reason, and it's gonna tell me what she was like doing or what her plans were when the 911 call happened.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mercury here is in Aquarius in the fifth section.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: The fifth section rules romance, dating, sex, pleasure, drinking, affairs, could also mean pregnancy and kids, but I'm not seeing any clues for that going on at the moment.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot is happening here in the fifth section of this chart.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Mercury, the sun, Neptune, and the part of fortune are all packed into this area.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm seeing was yes, alcohol was involved, but I think Maura was traveling for a romantic reason.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: More specifically, I think she was going to meet someone that she had been involved with before, and I think that relationship was being kept a secret.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Aquarius adds something unconventional to their relationship.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like this doesn't look like an obvious relationship that everyone around her knew about.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Also Aquarius again means ex or broken up, which is another clue that she was meeting an ex.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: My first answer is pretty simple.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think Mora had an intentional destination, and I think that destination involved a secret romantic connection with someone from her past.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: Question two.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Who was the perpetrator of her disappearance?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: To answer that, I'm gonna look at the seventh section of this chart because that describes the other person directly involved with Mora, and in forensic astrology, the seventh section represents the suspect or the perpetrator.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: In this chart, the seventh section is ruled by Pisces, and the person who perpetrated her disappearance is represented by Jupiter and Neptune.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: Seeing Pisces here makes me feel like this person appeared sympathetic, helpful.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: They might have been confused or overwhelmed, but definitely completely removed from whatever was happening.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: It can also describe someone who can compartmentalize their life as well.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Pisces ruling the suspect also tells me that this person hides themselves well and that they could become a different person in a different situation.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: Someone can know one version of this person while someone else knows a completely different version.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're also probably the type of person to switch their identity or even change their name.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: Then we have Venus sitting directly in the partner section.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: In forensics, Venus is gonna bring relationship, attraction, romantic involvement right into the picture.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now I have Mora's ruler sitting directly in the romance section of the chart, and I have Venus sitting with the person she is connected to.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: This relationship story is showing up from both directions.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Venus happens to be an Aries, which is gonna make this connection really physical, impulsive, charged, and driven by what these two people want at the moment.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think the person involved knew how to appeal to Mora and had the influence over what she decided to do next.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, we know how important relationships are to Mora.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Also in event charts, Venus can represent an actual woman.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: And because Venus is sitting directly inside the suspect's section, I think that there might have been another woman connected to the suspect who wasn't Mora.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm following Jupiter because that's gonna tell me exactly what the suspect was doing during the crash.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Jupiter here is in retrograde in Virgo in the 12th section, sitting just behind the ascendant.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Since Jupiter's in retrograde, it's telling me that someone from the past is coming back into the situation, and that also fits the X or the former romantic connection I was already seeing.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: Also another forensic astrology rule says that when the ruler of the seventh section is in retrograde, this is someone who had a history of violence.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: But where Jupiter is in the chart is really interesting to me.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's sitting right behind the ascendant in the twelfth house, right behind where Mora is.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: So what this is telling me is during the 911 call, the suspect or the perpetrator was already with her or very, very nearby and out of sight.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: They might have even been part of the crash with her.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: The neighbor who saw the man smoking a cigarette, that could have been him.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if it wasn't, he was nearby and hiding, or nearby and coming to Mora to pick her up.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Then Neptune, the other ruler of this person, is taking us back into the fifth section, the same place where Mercury, aka Mora, is sitting.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: So Mora and this other person are symbolically meeting in the area of the chart connected with romance, sex, drinking, pleasure, and secret relationships, and possibly pregnancy.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really strong clue for me.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think the person connected to Mora's disappearance was also the reason she was actually making the trip, who was very likely an ex coming back and having a secret affair with her.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: Question number three.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: What happened after the crash?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think the crash changed everything.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Up until this point, whatever Mora was doing could remain on the deal.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: She was able to travel somewhere, meet somebody, and literally nobody but her and this person knew what was going on.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: But then she crashed her car and suddenly there were witnesses.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: There are police being called, and her car is now stuck on the side of Route 112.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly there is going to be a record of where she was.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if somebody was waiting for Mora, traveling with her, following her, or planning to meet her, this became a much bigger problem.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: The chart puts this person extremely close to her, and that's why I keep coming back to the idea that Mora did not leave the road completely on her own.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think somebody she knew was either already nearby or reached her really quickly.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because this chart showed an existing romantic connection, she went off with them.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that the crash created a sudden chain of events.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mora's original plan was interrupted.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: We can also see that with Uranus in the sixth section.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: The person connected to that plan became involved, and whatever happened that was supposed to be private was suddenly in danger of being visible or exposed.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also one more thing about seeing Venus in the seventh that is telling us something really important about how this person actually viewed Mora.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: The second section of the chart represents Mora's possessions.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: Libra rules that section, and that makes Venus its ruler.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Then Venus lands directly in the seventh with the person I am tracking.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think this person felt like Mora belonged to him in some way.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: And not in like a healthy, committed relationship sense.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: More like he felt entitled to her attention, her affection and availability, and he expected the relationship to continue on his terms.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now I am looking at somebody who wanted to keep the affair a secret and also felt a sense of ownership over Mora and what she chose to do.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: Question four.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: Where does this chart say the situation ultimately leads?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: For that I look at the fourth section, because that describes the end of the matter.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sagittarius is here, so Jupiter rules it.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: And Jupiter also rules the suspect in the chart.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right away the end of the matter is handed back to him.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: That makes me think that whatever happened to Mora happened on his turf.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: And by that I mean somewhere connected to him, somewhere where he had control of the surroundings, and somewhere that felt much more familiar to him than it did to Mora.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: Then Pluto was sitting directly into the section.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: Pluto brings concealment, destruction, irreversible change, and something that simply can't be undone.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because the fourth can also describe a home, land, or private property, I would seriously consider that the final location was either the home or somewhere really familiar to the ex.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think Mora left roadside with the person she knew and who was going to see.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: She traveled away from that crash site, did her getaway with that person, but then whatever happened that ended the whole matter and caused her disappearance happened on that person's turf, somewhere where they had advantage and knew the environment better than she did.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: Question number five.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: Was there something about that night that needed to stay hidden?
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now I move to the tenth section of the chart.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is where I looked to the public story, investigation, reputation, authorities, and what eventually became known about the event.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: Gemini is here, so Mercury rules it, and Mercury is already representing Mora.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: So Mora herself rules the public story of her disappearance, which makes perfect sense if you look at what this case became.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: For more than 20 years, people have been trying to figure out what Mora was planning, like where is she going, who is she talking to, and why did she choose that route.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: Mercury keeps taking us back to the fifth section of the chart, which is about romance, dating, drinking, and affairs.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: So Mora's romantic life directly connected to the part of the chart, describing what exactly becomes important in understanding this case.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a T square.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's this astrology pattern that describes a lot of tension involving the moon in Libra, Venus and Aries, and Saturn in this very public section, in retrograde, in Cancer.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm reading the moon as Mora.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at Venus as another woman who's connected to the suspect.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: And Mora and this woman are sitting directly across from each other at opposition, but then on top, Saturn became this pressure point in between them.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Saturn's in the tenth section of exposure, reputation, consequences, and what becomes public.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: Saturn is also in cancer, which brings in someone's home life, family, emotional security, established relationship, and the world that they're trying to protect.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: When I look at this T square, I see Mora on one side, another woman on the other, and an established private life sitting right in the middle of that tension.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I start thinking that somebody involved in this relationship already had something substantial to protect.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like they were married, a serious partner, a family, a reputation.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because Saturn is in retrograde, I think that this situation had history.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: There was already tension between Mora and this other woman before she even reached Route 112.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: But then when the crash happened, the entire situation changed.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because before the crash, Mora could move around and no one knew where she was.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: But after the crash, witnesses saw her, her car was left there, the police was called, and there was going to be an official record.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, this crash activated this T square and it took a secret relationship problem and created a possibility of public exposure.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think that changed the stakes pretty quickly.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: If the person involved with Mora was also involved with another woman or had a family or established a life they were protecting, Mora being stranded on that road would have created a very serious problem.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever connection that had been kept hidden now had a great chance of becoming known.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: To answer the question, Mora, another woman, and the pressure created by a secret relationship were suddenly at risk of being exposed.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the crash was the moment that turned this pressure into a crisis.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: Question six.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: When did this situation turn dangerous?
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: So far the chart has given me a secret romantic relationship, someone from Mora's past, another woman connected to the situation, and a crash that suddenly puts a secret relationship at the risk of being exposed.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: But none of that explains why Mora would never come home.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: The T square already shows enormous pressure building between Mora, the other woman, and whatever established relationship, family life, or reputation Saturn was protecting.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: But then Mars enters the picture, and Mars is sitting at the eighth section of the chart.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I stopped seeing this as only a relationship problem, because Mars brings anger, confrontation, force, impulsive actions, and physical danger into the part of the chart associated with death and irreversible consequences.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: So now Mora herself is directly connected to that conflict.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think Mora left the crash side with someone she knew and trusted, but then something changed after they left.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: There could have been maybe an argument after the crash, or maybe when they realized that the relationship couldn't stay hidden anymore, something happened, and there was a situation that could have exposed anything.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the other woman became part of the confrontation, but whatever the exact conversation was, the showing a lot of pressure between this relationship becoming way more volatile after the crash.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then we reach the fourth section, the end of the matter, Pluto is there.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever begins as secrecy and relationship tension eventually becomes something irreversible.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the progression I see in this chart.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: A secret relationship, a sudden risk of exposure, a confrontation, and then a final event that cannot be undone.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: But does the chart show if Mora died?
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well in forensic astrology there are several things that I look for before I would feel comfortable saying that.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately this chart has all three.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: I look at the eighth section, which is connected with death.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the eighth is very active because Mars is directly inside it.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: Mars is one of the most hostile planets in forensic astrology.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: It brings violence, injury, conflict, force, and something happening very quickly.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: So the eighth house is activated.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: Then I look whether Mora's ruler makes contact with the ruler of the eighth.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: Mora is Mercury and it's unfortunately squaring Mars.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the planet representing Mora is directly connecting with the planet ruling death through a difficult and confrontational aspect, which is a major death signature for me.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: Then I look at the angles.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Saturn is sitting in the tenth, Pluto is sitting in the fourth.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: They are opposite angular points in the chart, which makes both of these planets extremely prominent.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Pluto brings destruction, irreversible change, disappearance, concealment, burial, and something being put somewhere where it cannot easily be recovered.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, I think Pluto here could absolutely describe hiding, but I think it's more specific than somebody choosing to disappear.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: This looks like irreversible concealment.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Something is hidden because something final already happened.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: When I combine that with Mars sitting in the eighth, the square, I think this chart gives me a very strong astrologically indication that Mora died as a result of what happened after the crash.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't read this as Mora deciding to disappear and begin another life.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: I read this as the end of the matter becoming permanent.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's possible she made a change to who she was based on the chart, but the death signatures are unfortunately very strong.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: So let's put this all together.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think Mara was traveling with a specific purpose, and the trip involved someone from her romantic past.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think this relationship was a secret.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think there was another woman connected to that person.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the T square shows the pressure between Mora, that woman, and the established life that could be disrupted if the affair became public.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: Then the crash happened, which is a turning point.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: Once Mora's car is disabled, she's been seen and the police are called, her movements are about to become part of an official record.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think Mora left the crash with the person she was meeting.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: The chart placed that person very close to her and connects the end of the matter back to him, which is why I think she was taken somewhere connected to him, somewhere familiar to him.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then the dangerous stuff happens with the death signatures that I spoke about.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: The crash created the threat of exposure.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: The situation escalated after she left the road.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever happened next ended with her being concealed somewhere.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't be surprised if she was in the home of the suspect.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_01: But also with the Aquarius Delium, I wouldn't be surprised if she was super high up, maybe even on a hill or a mountain.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: To look for more clues that might have been missed, the part of fortune in the chart shows more clues, and here it's conjunct Mercury in Aquarius in the fifth house.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm immediately wondering if her AOL messages have been recorded and analyzed because I think the authorities would find a lot more information there.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: She has still not been found.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I'm leaving the case for now.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to know what you think, so come find me and tell me your theory.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, follow the Star Witness wherever you're listening so you don't miss the next case.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: Every moment has a chart, every chart has a story.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Macy Murda.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you next time on the Star Witness with a brand new case.