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Piping around the Planet | UK Column Interviews · UK Column Radio

• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Charles Mannett with the UK column Interview with
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: a Difference.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Robin All today, welcome to UK column. Thank you very
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: much for joining me.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Of course, pleasure to be here.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: And now we have had a bit of a walk
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: up the fairly steep hill.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Where are we, Robin?
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: We're at the Wallace Monument.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: Wh is a popular tourist attraction in Starlin.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: It certainly is.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: It's a Saturday morning, it's just getting a bit busier,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: so we might have a few people doing and throwing
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: as we as we do speak nor You are dressed
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: in a particular manner, one might say a traditional manner,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and I think that's what.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: We want to get to today. Now.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I came across you because I found you on social
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: media platform and you've been doing something that I think,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: at first glance could be taken as somewhat frivolous, lighthearted,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: going around the world playing pipes.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: There's a spectacle there, but there's a lot more to it.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely depends on which video you see.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Because lots of people saw me and they thought this
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: boy looks very angry about something. There must be something
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: terrible happening in his home. Yeah, a lot of people
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: saw that. Yeah, I mean I was very passionately talking
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: about why people shouldn't feel embarrassed about their culture.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a massive issue. But just.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: In order that people understand why it is that I
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: was drawn to what it is you wording the sort
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: of the visual spectacle, I will I will play a
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: video over the top of this now so that people
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: can see what it is you're doing.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: But more importantly the reactions to it.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And I think what I'd really like to get a
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: sense of is in the first instance, where that where
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: has that come from within you? What has triggered this
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: impulse to go and do that?
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: Well, there was a combination of two things that were
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: probably the main influences. The first one was going to
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: university and seeing who the people were that are going
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: to be the movers and thinkers in the future, and
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: seeing the collapsed education system that we have in the
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: West manipulating people in a dangerous direction. And then seeing
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: another country. This is what pushed me over there, seeing
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: other countries where there are many things that are lack
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: which we're very fortunate to have here in the culture,
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: and realizing how special and important what we have is
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: and how much it matters that we guard it and
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: protect it.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Now, I think for anyone who's listening and not
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: watching listening to what you say, I should think they're
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: imagining an old head on old shoulders.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: But you are young. You are twenty years old.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I think I am twenty, yes.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: And I think you speak with wisdom that is well
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: beyond your years.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you very much kind of you to say.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: I don't want your head to explode just yet, but
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I think I think this is fascinating. And to get
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: to this idea of first of all, what is it
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: meant by a cultural identity? I mean, do you want
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: to even begin to define that? What's your take or
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: on that with your own experiences in mind.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Well, it's a tough thing for people to figure out
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: because obviously, people even within Scotland have many different ideas
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: of what their identity is. And we're at a pretty
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: key place for this idea of cultural identity because there
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: used to be a statue just over there you see,
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: you see where that beIN is of William Wallace being
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: portrayed by Mel Gibson and Brave Heart, and that that film,
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: despite its inaccuracies, which I believe led to the removal
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: of said statue, also inspired many people from many communities,
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  Speaker 4: including working class communities in Scotland, to have a center
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: of identity. So a lot of people's identity is based
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  Speaker 4: in films, right right, right, and that is but that's
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  Speaker 4: that's key to Scotland. That that brave heart kind of
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  Speaker 4: identity changes a lot of the way that people understand
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  Speaker 4: their their history.
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  Speaker 2: Now, okay, for for good or ill for both, Okay.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, for both.
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  Speaker 4: But but that that's we could go into detail about
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: what the the harms are of that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, let's let's get to that.
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  Speaker 1: But let's let's get because you've already mentioned education and
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: and the in effect of the railing or the the
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: manipulation of people that are within that system. Just tell
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: me a bit more about that with regard to your
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  Speaker 1: own personal experiences.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, so the educate system was always I always saw
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  Speaker 4: kind of strange things in there that I didn't quite understand.
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  Speaker 4: As a child, I was initially home educated, and then
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: I went to primary school when I was eight years old,
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: so I started to experience this different world where it
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: prioritizes the bottom and no one left behind. But it
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  Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily make avenue for greatness. I don't think it
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  Speaker 4: encourages the right kind of discipline and the right kind
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: of attitudes. I think it's designed for people who struggle
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  Speaker 4: more than it is designed for people who want to
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  Speaker 4: do something more meaningful.
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  Speaker 1: That's a very interesting take. Was that something that was
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: sort of recognized by your peer group? What do you
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: think that was a perspective that you've had.
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  Speaker 4: That was something that I had throughout their school secondary,
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  Speaker 4: but then university was where there just seemed to be
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  Speaker 4: a lot more actual direct propaganda. It's not just about
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: the way that they treat you, but it was actually
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: about the way that they're telling you the world is.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: So there's a really good example of this I was doing.
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: I was studying a film course, right, so you can
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: imagine the types earlier on a film course, and maybe
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: that's why they thought this was acceptable. So we had
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: to write an essay a university and we had to
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: take an angle on culture studies, either through the lens
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: of Marxism, critical race theory, or feminism. Those are the
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: angles that we can look at it through, so you
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  Speaker 4: can understand broadly in a culture, even just the posters
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: which are all around their university. For example, right, one
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: of the most hilarious ones I said was I saw
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: was It said the easiest way to avoid STDs is
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: to wear a condom. Right, So you have all these
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: little things around you. And it was the entire culture
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: of the entire community. It wasn't just my film course.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: A lot of people say, well, you know, it's a
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: film course. It's probably very liberal, very arty kids and things.
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  Speaker 4: I'm an arty kid. I'm maybe not quite as liberal
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  Speaker 4: as my peers were, That's okay. What bothered me was
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: the propaganda and the intentional inductrination that went on there.
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: And it was so forced and so intrusive when you
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: go to university. University should be a place for you
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: to be working hard, for you to be thriving in
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  Speaker 4: an intellectual community. It's not a place to go where
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: you show up at your shouldn't accommodation, which, by the way,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: was Bainfield Residency. It's ran by the university, and you
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: have an envelope on your desk that directly promotes a
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: number of completely unhealthy, irrelevant things which are not helpful
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: for studying. They're helpful for being an unhealthy slave to
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: short term minded capitalism, right, like pizza places and fast
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  Speaker 4: food and like we were given two on like Coca
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: Cola and Sprite. They had like new flavors. We're giving
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: free cans at that in their flat, not like a
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: free study book or something. And even the design of
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: the flats. You have a bar and you have sofas,
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: you don't have a table to eat your food on.
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  Speaker 3: There's not a dinner table in it. So what kind
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: of environment are they.
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  Speaker 4: Forcing you to create through their architecture, through their propaganda
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  Speaker 4: that they put on your desk, through this red envelope.
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  Speaker 4: From the moment you get there, it's you're here to
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: go out and party and go to clubs and drink alcohol.
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  Speaker 4: That's what the whole system told you you're supposed to do.
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  Speaker 4: That's what the whole environment is fishing to wards people.
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  Speaker 4: As well as the liberal, free living lifestyle, there's the
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  Speaker 4: not so free thinking, not so liberal I suppose way
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: of forcing very specific ideologies upon you.
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  Speaker 2: And like you pointed out earlier, not to retain or
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  Speaker 2: pursue excellent.
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  Speaker 3: No, no, I don't think.
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  Speaker 4: I don't think the excellence that he was a part
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  Speaker 4: of it in the slightest in secondary school. At least
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: we were showing this thing. I suppose it was called
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: a curriculum for excellence, but when you go into it,
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  Speaker 4: I don't think the culture.
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  Speaker 3: Do you know about the Scottish.
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  Speaker 4: Educationism, so it's Scottish educationalism is entirely devolved, so it's
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  Speaker 4: entirely separate from English educationism. And one of the things
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: that part of that is the curriculum for Excellence, which
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: is this broad thing that's it's almost a bit like
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  Speaker 4: the Department of Education in the States, where they have
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  Speaker 4: something for all these different classes where they say this
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  Speaker 4: is how you're supposed to learn and what you're supposed
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  Speaker 4: to m towards. I think, yeah, I think that dunciantism
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  Speaker 4: is very is very weakened. I don't think it promotes
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  Speaker 4: a sense of purpose, especially for men. I think it's
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: probably much better for women and well enough for girls,
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: and it is generally for men. You can see that
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: because girls are now doing better and better. They're performing
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  Speaker 4: way better than men. They're actually getting to university more
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  Speaker 4: than they are. But for men who want to have
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  Speaker 4: a strong such a purpose, they're not being told to
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  Speaker 4: face a struggle and take on a dangerous adventure in
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: order to pursue some glorious goal, they're told to conform.
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  Speaker 3: And be complacent.
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  Speaker 4: And it is anybody who has a strong desire to
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  Speaker 4: something meaningful will be patronized and humiliated by those schools.
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  Speaker 4: And that applies to most schools. Obviously teachers and everything
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  Speaker 4: had teachers that have an influence. I can't spait for
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  Speaker 4: all schools in this country, but I hear this from
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: so many kids and people who have studied in recent
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: years in Scotland that.
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  Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by that because I think people of all
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: ages will recognize exactly what you're saying, in so far
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: as those tools of patronizing and humiliating people are specifically
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: weaponized in order that people do conform. Now it's quite clear,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: and I had no idea that this was going to
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: be the result of my initial contact with you. So
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: this is absolutely fascinating. As we go, quite clearly you
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: didn't conform, you did see it for what it was.
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  Speaker 1: Has that put you in a category of one in
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  Speaker 1: relation to your peer group or at least those around
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: you in that educational setting.
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  Speaker 2: Were other people aware.
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  Speaker 3: Of this well?
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  Speaker 4: I don't think the people who were on my course
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: think very much of the things that I've done. Now,
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: I've had them approach me a number of times while
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: I've been in Edinburgh since leaving the course, but I've
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: found a great number of people who are very passionately
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: working towards fixing these issues.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, now this is because this is the critical part.
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  Speaker 1: And when we were puffing our way up the hill,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: which by the way is quite steep, isn't it, we
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: were touching on some of this and this is what
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I'd like to get to, this idea of the cultural identity,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: a cultural heritage, and how easily, given what you're saying
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: about education, how easily that can be fragmented and indeed
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: made to disintegrate. Just tell me a bit about how
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: that's happened. You were talking on the way up about
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: some of the ways.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Oh yes, yeah, so this is less about young people
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: now sure, yes, moving on from the young people think, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: this is much more about all people. But a lot
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: of this stuff is not things that are new in
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: coming in. These are things I've been around for a
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: long time and have been gradually reduced as Scotland has
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: been treated as less as a limb state. If you're
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: if you're familiar with Machiavelli, then yeah, less as a
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: limb state which needs to be punished, and more so
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: as something that they're trying to be integrated into the
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: whole of the country, the United Kingdom, and they're trying
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: to allow the culture to flourish a little bit more here.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: Historically you couldn't get jobs for the Scottish name. Often
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: jobs you couldn't get if you're a Scottish accent. You
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: couldn't do something like become a museum curator or an actor.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Many actors that you'll know from Scotland of that period
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: all had to change their names, like David Tennant and
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: Robbie Coltrane. They all had to adopt the English names
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: that you're familiar with. Robbie coltrain couldn't be called rab
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: what was called McMillan. McMillan, right, So they all had
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: to change their names in order to conform to that.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: They had to perform English accents, and it was much
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: It was very, very different, and you can see even
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: things like the Scottish Arts Council, which is now called
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: Creative Scotland, which is the primary authority that works with
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: the government to promote Scottish arts. They've come into controversy
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: a lot of times. I think recently there was an
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: adult film which they funded, which ended up being cut
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: because it got so much media attention for how ridiculous
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: it was. But a lot of things like that on
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: a much smaller scale continued to happen, and even to
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: this day you can see the remnants of that affecting
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: tradition bearers are trying to get the culture out. What
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: it did was that prioritized it was supposed to be
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: very good weather today, by the way, but we are
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: in Scotland, we're on the top of a hill as well.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: So examples of this were people who are prioritizing their
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: careers would get good at writing forms and manipulating the culture,
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: taking elements of the culture into a new way of
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: seeing things that would be presentable for the funny bodies,
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: and the tradition bearers would try and present traditional culture
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: and say, oh, well, this is too Scottish. The Scottish
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: Arts Council at one point every single member on the
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: board for the Scottish Arts Council now Creative of Scotland
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: was English. And the problem as well with overall that's
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: reluctant with anybody who has pure intentions is always being
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: perceived through that lens. So that's why I was talking
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: about just with the earlier I was talking about highland dancing.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: Highland dancing used to be something that anybody could be
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: involved in. One was a key integral part of the
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: whole integrated culture which would happen within communities. Piping, all
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: the folk music was all together, and the dancing and
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: the storytelling all tied together. And you had dances that
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: related to folk stories, right, you had dances about the
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: call yak. But the dance about the call Yak has
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: been adapted into the balletic style of modern highland dancing. Right,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: they call it highly dancing. It's basically ballet with highland
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: dancing elements thrown in. They now call it the Irish Chick.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: It's got nothing to do with Ireland. But they just say, oh,
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: it's an old Irish lady because they do this movement, right.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: But it comes from a dance that related to the
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: call Yak, who is a key figure in Scottish folklore
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: and also in Scottish bagpipe music. So the tune the
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: Old Women's Lullaby is a mistranslation from the Gaelic. But
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: it's called the old One's lua by, which fits this
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: romanticized image maybe of an old woman sing a nice lullaby.
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: But it's actually the Calayuk's milking salt, right, and it
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: is about the cal Yak, and it quite possibly relates
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: to a number of folklore stories about the Calyuk. But
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: these are all separated, and if you go to the
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: storytelling center you'll find most people will even say they
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: can't even say Callyak. So all these cultures have been
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: separated out right, isn't it. It's hard to say with
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: it's an intentional effort or not, right, but they've all
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: been separated out by the authorities that have had this power.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: We can take a guess as to whether it is
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: intentional or not well.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: But it's hard because most of the people involved in
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: it probably weren't doing something like that intentionally, right, And
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: the people that were doing it intentionally it was probably
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: more for personal reasons than because they were instructed by
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: someone in Westminster to destroy the culture of the country.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: But what happens is when you try and keep control
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: of a region and keep authority, you end up what
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: often happens is the culture is feminized and it's divided.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Those are the two.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: So this is something that was definitely done intentionally by
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: the British Empire in other countries, so they would so
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: for example, a war dance, if you give career opportunities
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: to women to do a feminized version of the war dance,
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: that's a great way to move the said warriors away
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: from being violent and aggressive. And the same thing happens
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: when you divide the culture into different categories that both
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: fit your modern art understanding of the world and also
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: break up their communities and stops them from running things
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: from their end. But you know, there was a lot
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: of things done in Scotland because they were concerned about uprisings.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: They were concerned about finding violent uprisings. I think the
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: last one was now two hundred years ago, right, and
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: like was it the eighteen twenties or maybe slightly more recently,
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: but reader by that time had any violent uprising since then,
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: So you imagine there's not so much need and they're
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: gradually winning them away. But the damage of this effort
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: is still lasting because it is cut off several generations
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: from maintaining their culture. A lot of it is just
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: there's nothing to do with English this or English that.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: It's just modernization. It's the contemporary world, you know, the
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: way that the capitalist economy works.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: People are leaving the Highlands still to this day.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: When I meet people who are from Elgin, young people
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: my age, they almost all plan to move to Edinburgh
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: or Glasgow or even the United States because they want
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: to seek better career opportunities. If they want to work
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: hard and do something serious and don't want to live
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: on benefits, it's unlikely that they're going to stay in
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: one of these rural communities. The same thing is happening
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: in England with the coastal towns. It's the exact same story.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: So that's just almost inevitable when you have the economy
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: that we have.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's yeah, and there's a lot of.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: What I do want to do given what you've just
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: been talking about about the precarious nature of culture, the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: way that whether it is entirely intentional across the peace,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: but there's no doubt that things are being water down, fragmented,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: fundamentally altered. You are, again unusual for your age group
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: because you've seen many, many more parts of the world
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: than a lot of people ever will and just just
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: turn what you're saying into a view of some of
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the places. I mean, I've seen you piping at a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: bus station in Zimbabwe, I've seen you in India.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Tell me, how do you view what you saw both ways?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Sort of what you saw in so far as people
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: were looking at you dressing this sounding like we will
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: have at the beginning of this and we hear it.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Just just let's get into that. I mean, is this
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: happening in other places? Is this happening in you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: what's referred to as the develop world.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Cultures being changed and squat of their own cultures.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, and them being encouraged to immigrate to our
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: countries is also negative for their culture and their countries.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, continue on that theme. This is really important. Go on,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: explain what you mean.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: And there's a lot of angles we could we could
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: delve into here.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Go on, then.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: Will these Okay, let's talk about India.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: I was most known for going to play in India,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: and interestingly, often the people who are most passionate about
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: Indian culture and most arudite, they've often been most against
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: the immigration or most concerned about the potential damages of
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: immigration from developing countries to the United Kingdom. One of
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: those prime examples of somebody who's whose time has passed,
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: who is a very influential parliamentary in Enoch Powell had
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: an extensive conversation with last night with a very pro independence,
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: left wing nationalist who's also a folklorist, who had a
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: great number of positive things to say about said English parliamentarian.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: It's very tough to engage with these topics without talking
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: about broad demographics and broad cultural issues. But you have
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: to because we're talking about India. You know, you can
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: go into more debt than you can talk about the Punjabis,
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: the people of South India, people from the Northwest, and
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: they're all very very different, distinct cultural regions that it's
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: hard to It's hard and tough to generalize if somebody
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: is an outsider like me who's only spent a few
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: weeks in that country. There's a lot of things generally
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: you can see that make it hard for their cultures
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: to interact in our country, and a lot of those
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: are regionally specific, but even the regions. For example, Punjab
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: is one of the wealthier regions. People are mostly six
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: seek in Punjab right where their turbans and their curpans,
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: and they are known as integrating much better into culture
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: in these countries. There were some of the first pills
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: to come here because they had the money to do so,
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: and a lot of the first Indian food in Western countries.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Was Punjabi Indian foods.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: Now still to this day, when you have immigration on
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: a big broader scale, there's problems with Punjabi integration in Canada.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: You see that an anonymous sale where they end up
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: littering lots, and that only happens when it's on the
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: large scale, right, But just on different scales, you have
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: different levels of problems from different groups. The Punjabi culture
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: is very distinct, it's very special, it's very different.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: They are all.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: Applying to the police a lot in lots of foreign countries.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: They're involved in security in lots of different Western countries,
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: and there's a lot of ways that that culture can
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: benefit uts. But you can see that it's distinct and
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: has a different, a very different approach to things. And
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: obviously now there's this controversy at a guy who killed
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: somebody with his currpan or an absurdly large version of
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: the Kurpan to the outrage of many Sekhs.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: By the way, that's a very important point.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, so.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: That's like one that's like one region to talk about
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: one region of idea that I've not even been to.
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: I just know a number of people from the right.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: So there's a lot of different ways in which their
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: culture is being strangled as well. For example, a lot
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: of people in Punjab want separatism. Punjabi separatists have been
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: involved in a number of things in Western countries and
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: it comes and affects our countries. So you can imagine
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: they're not happy in Kashmir in India. Oh, talk about
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: culture being strangled. Kashmir in India is a similar situation
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: to the wigers in Sinjang in China. So what's happening
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: there is you've got Kashmir's who just dislike that. Kashmir
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: is a beautiful mountainous region in India and it's also
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: a region of Pakistan, and the border is heavily disputed
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: and there's frequent violence between the police and the local citizens.
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: So my friend from Kashmir regularly see the dead bodies
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: on the side of the roads because there's regular fights
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: between the police, of the Indian police and the Kashmiri.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Locals. So there's a lot of violence there.
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: And one of my friends there, who I met when
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: he visited Scotland, he has has committed now that he's
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: successful in his career, he has committed himself to preserving
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: old Kashmiri literature and culture and backing up through the
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: Internet while books are being disappeared and culture is being
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: intentionally washed out in a lot of these places because
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: of its direct Kashmiri influence. Just yeah, yeah, there's like, yes,
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: so much, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: You haven't been.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: But to those you have, were you expecting any of
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: this before you travel? I mean, did you have an
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: inkling that you were going to find a lot of
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: the same things happening sort of hit there and else
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: where as are happening here or was it a surprise
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: to you?
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: Well, there's been many surprises along the way. And I'm
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: absolutely still in the very early stages of my adult
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: life and I'm learning enormous amounts every day. I'm a
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: very inherently curious person. Yes, that's never going to be
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: taken out of me. So I'm continually exploring these things
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: and learning a lot more the Kashmir gentlemen. I met
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: him in Scotland before I ever went to India.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, But.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Then on the other side, I mean, going and creating
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the most all mighty racket in somebody else's country brings
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: attention with it. What there's obviously not going to be
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: a uniform answers to this, But I mean, how did
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: people respond to you looking like that, doing what you
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: were doing and the rest of it.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, were you surprised by that the response.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: Response online? Yes, So I did a number of social
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: media posts up until that point and around them by
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: that time. That's when I started getting a lot of
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: virality and interest with the second time I visited India
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: last year and I did lots of videos in a
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: short period where I was playing bagpipes and talking shouting
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: about European culture. Yes, and that was the thing that
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: sparkless of controversy initially when it was reposted, but it
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: seems to be in the short term these things are
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: reposted by organizations with political interest, and in a long
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: term it brings interest towards your personality and yourself is
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: an individual and the work that you actually do as
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: you gradually filtered the people that are there for the
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: short term buzz of something. So now a year later,
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: I've tried to build my audience in a very different
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: way since then because I'm not interested, frankly, in leading
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: mobs at the moment. My goal is to work with
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: tradition bearers and work with the small number of people
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: who are passionate enough that they want to invest in
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: their heritage and connect with that. So that's that's been
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: my priority since then.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean obviously very interesting people have
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: used what you've put on social media, and there is
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: absolutely I can say exactly what you mean, which is
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: that people are.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: In effect or at least possibly trying to manipulate what
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: it is that you're doing to suit.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: Ends that are not sure or to simplify most of
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: the time.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, but tell me when you were in India, I mean,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: what what was the reaction of those people that you
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: were in a monst How did how did they respond
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to you?
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: How did you get on with them?
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: What?
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: What what happened when you when you did it.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Well well?
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: In India, I I played in places that it was
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: culturally acceptable to perform music, so they always have music
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: on their trains, the people playing drums and bashing on
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: the doors and singing songs while on the trains, and
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: it's chaos. They run and get on their trains while
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: they're still moving, and they their people fall that there
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: was on die all the time on those trains. You
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: go very slowly, sometimes through areas where sewage is released
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: onto the railway lines and it's just and by the way,
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: they don't have doors on the on the cheap ones
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: and doors on the expensive ones, the first ac whatever
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: ones they have doors, but your very exposed environment. It's
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: a very dramatically it's to explain what that's like to
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: be there. Is very tough to somebody's from here, and
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: a lot of the attitudes that people have here that
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: allow them to believe the propaganda is based on their
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: pleasant experiences. So when the only person that you know
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: from India or Pakistan is the poor little guy down
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: the road who runs a corner shop and he's got
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: his little family and he gets picked on by the
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: local chavs. And then they see me, a young boy
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: going and shouting about my culture in India. They see
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: me as one of those chavs who goes and bullies
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: the poor guy who runs a corner shop. Right, that's
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: why people that my university probably see me. But when
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: you go there and you realize how dramatic their culture is,
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: and you realize how places that were once beautiful one
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: hundred years ago under slightly different ruling have been absolutely
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: destroyed and by the decade are getting worse. They're getting
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: filthy or getting more disgusting.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: And why is that?
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: It's because of cultural changes and forced demographic changes. Demographic changes.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: So those demographic changes were actually driven by the British,
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: but the long term implifications of them have played out
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: after the British left and they have not been managed
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: by the British. It's like Tony Blair's policies that he
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: implemented it his time and now directly says are having
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: a bad impact, and yet the current parliamentarians and Prime
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: Minister are not changing those things.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: Right, So that's like what's happened in India is they
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: encouraged population growth. India's population was constant for millennia, right,
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: and by the way, they were a fantastic nation four
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: thousand years ago, much more so than many Western nations.
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: But the encouragement of encouraging people to have more children,
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: especially the lower classic slaves that the people who are
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: laboring for us. The encouragement of that has led to
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: this huge demographic change in India. And you've just got
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: this completely chaotic nation with extreme wealth inequality, with Ambani
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: living in this beautiful golden skyscraper next to an enormous slum.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: I was just speaking to a guy about that just
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: ten minutes ago. It's so extreme, and it's not like
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: here in Scotland. You've got like Glasgow, and within Glasgow
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: you've got some dodgy areas, right, they're the ones where
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: you have more immigration often as.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Well, but also.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: You've got some richer areas. Then when you go further out,
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: people can protect themselves. They live in these estates. There's
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: very different people living around these estates and they get
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: to choose when they interact with the public and when
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: they get into the scenarios. And they're very far away
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: from a struggling area in Glasgow or somewhere in Lanarkshire,
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: whereas in India it's on their doorstep.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so their doorstep.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: If you want to avoid this, you don't like, I
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: don't want to talk too much about people whose lifestyle
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: but they don't need to do very many things to
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: protect themselves because they're just so far away from it
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: in this country, whereas there you go to Ambani's residency
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: which is right next to horrible slum. He's got like
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: eighty police cars outside his house. You know, it's it's
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: a very extreme culture, very extreme.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to put words
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: in your mouth, but no, what you're describing with the here,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: not just Scotland, but the United Kingdom and India for example,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: are you seeing this as all part of the same thing,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: particularly with regard to enforced demographic changes.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: We're going to be careful here talking about forcing demographic
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: changes because it m if whatever I was to say here,
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: denying it or not, we're directly talking about a conspiracy
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: theory because force means it's a conspiracy. People are directly
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: conspiring to change the demographic.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: It's very tough.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of things which are carelessness. A lot
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: of the time people allow things to happen carelessly, which
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: they allow to happen because they think it might potentially
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: have a positive impact on the economy, and then that
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: allows the avenue people to come through and directly say, well,
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: this benefits the economy. There was a broad consensus, certainly
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: thirty or so years ago, that more and more immigration
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: will lead to more population growth, more economic growth, those
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: people are participating more in the economy. I think it
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: was a round about that time as well, the British
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: birth rates came below replacement and we became more and
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: more dependent on immigration. Through Blair and then more recently
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: through Johnson and on, all these different changes that have
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: allowed more mobile to come through, and there's an idea
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: that it benefits the economy so much, and a complete
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: attitude of just completely neglecting the notion that it could
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: disrupt the cultural fabric of these nations, and as a
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: part of that, a lack of willingness to admit what
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: makes our culture so great? Yeah, and now suddenly people
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: are craving that. It leads to identity being lost, It
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: leads to cultures having much more, much more chaos, and
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: much less consistency, much much less stability.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, now your your philosophy comes through, I think loud
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: and clear. You articulate it very well. Tell me how
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: it is that dressing like this and doing what you
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: do helps to deal with this, because I believe it does,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and I think you believe it does as well. But
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: articulate that and demonstrate to people how to how to
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: deal with it, I.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: Believe it can okay, and social media being an influencer.
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: The only way an influencer works is not really by
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: merit of what they do, is by merit of who
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: they influence. And I think there's been a lot of
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: ways which people are taking this in the wrong direction.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: The same people who do not attend church, and by
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: the way, I'm not frequent churchgoer, but the people who
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: are not attending church even though their parents did, are
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: now attending United the Kingdom protests and carrying crosses and
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: setting fire to bins.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: And wheeling them into police.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: So I'm not going to comment on the conduct to individuals,
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: and I know why they're angry, and I think it's justified.
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: But I think there's a lot of very productive ways
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: that we can look to our tradition bearers, look to
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: our elders and listen to them and learn from them,
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: and there's a lot of constructive ways that we can
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: make change from within as well. I think the way
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: that I was trying to inspire people when I went
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: very viral is very different to the way that I'm
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: planning to change things in the coming years. What I'm
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: playing to do personally is to do less shouting and
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: more closely working with these people. Because I have all
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: these connections with key tradition bearers in this country, I
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: have a lot of patience, and I spend a lot
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: of time sitting down and listening to them in their
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: houses and listening learning about what their culture, what they're losing,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: what's being lost. And then I also have this connection
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: to an audience within which there's a very small number
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: of people who I have been steadily inviting to experience
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: the real tradition and the real culture, which is something
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: to be done very carefully, because most people are a
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: great number of the people who have interried to be
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: these people in the past have given the impression that
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: they wish to do so and have completely taken advantage
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: of them right. For example, one guy I know who
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: is an expert in the dancing side of things, who
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: has trained a number of people in the past who
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: have went on to mishuse that one girl comes along.
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: She comes from the Highland dancing version of Scottish dancing,
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: and she goes and says she wants to learn from him,
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: and spends the number of weeks ag them learning these moves,
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: and she just sort of incorporates it into her routines.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: She doesn't actually intend to maintain it, as he told
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: it to her. That happens a lot with a lot
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: of people. So so I'm trying to what I'm trying
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: to do now, changing in the future is very different
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: to then then. I was saying, thinking I could go
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: about and say that, you know, you shouldn't be embarrassed,
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: and show the strong contrast. I thought that would show people.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: I thought it would show people a different way to
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: see their culture. And I think the vast majority of
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: the effect that it had was just validating people's feelings,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: whether that was against her for what I was saying,
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: it validated to the feelings.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: If they had this feeling that.
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: Unlimited immigration will have no harms in this country and
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: that Western cultures are ultimately an oppressive force, then they're
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: gonna just see me as a little racist kid who
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: they can talk about. Oh, he doesn't realize bagpipes actually
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: have origins in Mesopotamia or something like that, Right, so
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: they can just keep using their points against my twenty
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: second video of me shouting yeah, and if they supported
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: what I do, then they can go, oh, good on
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: you man, you know, it's great what you're doing. You know,
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: big up your culture and this sort of stuff. And
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: then there's our people who come up to me in
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: the street and they give me fist bumps and they say.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Oh, you're doing God's work. So they're doing God's work,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: and they go and they walk on.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: I don't think most of those people are necessarily going
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: to have any dramatic influence on improving the culture. They're
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: just people who shift the mob narrative, which is just
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: a big pendulum anyway, very well, just a make pendulum anyway.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: The other thing, first of all, when we were on
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: the way here, I was talking about the UK column audience,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: many many of whom have not just children, but grandchildren,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: and they are all asking the very fundamental question, which
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: is what's going to happen for the world that the
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: children and grand children will take on. Now, you were
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: talking about a network of people that you're developing, particularly
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: sort of amongst your peer group. We just talk sort
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: of in general about some of the initiatives you'll wear
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: or of some of the drive that is being generated
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: by your generation.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, talking about other young people, yeah yeah, yeah. So,
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: as well as working with tradition ers that are almost
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: all very old, very stubborn, eccentric characters, there is a
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: number of young people I know who are very ambitious
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: and are quite quickly accessing and creating the resources necessary
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: to pursue both entrepreneurial and nationalistic ambitions. So there's a
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: lot of people who feel very strongly about the issues
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: that they're seeing in their culture.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: And the people who do have the intention to do
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: something great are also very aware that there is a
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: lack of.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: Appropriate environment to encourage people to be able to do
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: great things and for the nation as a whole and
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: for individual industries within this nation to thrive. So I
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: mentioned to you earlier somebody I know whose aim is
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: to revive the shipbuilding industries to something more reminiscent of
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: the glory that used to be the Glassgow shipbuilding industry.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: His vision actually is very interesting because it doesn't just
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: roll around Glasgow. His idea is something about I think
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: it was the HMS Elizabeth, but I'm not an expert
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: on ships. And I'm not a ships guy. You can
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: google this, but one of these great big ships for
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: the Navy, one of the biggest Hella carriers ever, was
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: built in Scotland and it was built using this modular
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: structure where they use all of these different different places
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: to build different parts of the ship across the whole country.
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: And I think that's the sort of thing that I
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: would love to see more of in this nation. Unfortunately,
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: for my friend's ambitions, that was done all through the
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: public needs.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Right for the military.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: If we had something like this that was private for shipbuilding,
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: we could have an industry to revival that of South Korea.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: It could be something you're very significant, and it would
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: also be a way for young people to continue living
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: in rural areas and continue the cultural preservation of their
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: parents and grandparents or great grandparents if they're lucky enough
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: to have people who to hold on to things and
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: share them with them and have fruitful careers. That's an
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: example of one person I know who's got quite a
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: strong plan, and I do have confidence in his abilities
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: that he can have a.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: Very significant influence in moving towards that.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: That is very encouraging, and I think you know, my
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: hope is that this interview will be shared far and
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: wide with people who are perhaps not typical UK column
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: viewers or listeners, because you know, your message is a
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: very strong and very clear one and I think should
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: be heard by people of your generation. But with that
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: in mind, as we do sort of draw closer to
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: the end of this, what message really would you send
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: to people of your age bracket?
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: What are the sorts of things that you would encourage
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: people to think about? And look at.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: My idea of overall, because you're asking a very broad
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: question about young people. Overall, we need more strength, not
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: necessarily strong muscles, although strong muscles are comm useful, more
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: of an answered to prioritize strength if we want to
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: be prosper rius and in in a modern world, preserving
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: culture is dependent on the prosperity of the nation and
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: the prosperity of the areas where you want to preserve
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: the culture, and the moment you lose that there, you
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: lose the people there. So the overall question that they
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: can ask themselves is where do we need to be stronger?
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: And how can we be stronger? So that's the that's
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: the broad question, right, Yeah.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, Robin.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: I wasn't quite sure what I was going to get
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: when I called you up the other day, but I
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: must say I think I will speak for myself, but
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: probably a lot of the audience I have been I've
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: been blown away, but a new demographic group. So thank
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: you very much indeed speaking to me for putting yourself
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: in front of the UK call the audience. I hope
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: we'll hear more from you to be really honest and
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: and all. So I hope that you will do us
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: the honor of train typing the interview. A thank you
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: very much indeed.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: For talking to me.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: Pleasure, Charles Pleasure
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: H Issue two of The Column, a quarterly magazine from
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: UK Column, is now in the UK Column Shop, so
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: please go to shop dot UK column dot org to
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: pick up your copy