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Transcript

Episode 232: Is We Racist? · Blocked and Reported

0:10
SPEAKER_02: Okay, Jesse, we are back after our fall break and our big push to get the books in.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: Did you get Brooke turned in?
0:16
SPEAKER_03: Katie, we need to be honest with you.
0:18
SPEAKER_03: We will have been back when this aired.
0:21
SPEAKER_03: We're recording this September 25th.
0:23
SPEAKER_03: My book is due in six days, as is yours.
0:28
SPEAKER_03: That's so cute that our book cycles naturally synced.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is cute.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Very cute.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: Although, I feel like yours was at some point due in September.
0:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:37
SPEAKER_03: It was.
0:37
SPEAKER_03: I pushed it back a month because I wanted us to be closer.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: You wanted to cycle together.
0:40
SPEAKER_03: This has definitely made us closer.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: Has it?
0:43
SPEAKER_03: I think so.
0:45
SPEAKER_03: We've had to negotiate how to make enough time to finish the podcast.
0:51
SPEAKER_03: You've been sending me lots of encouraging texts with heart emojis.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: I have.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: We had to negotiate how to deal with book leave.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: What I find so special about this is that you took three months off of book leave
1:03
SPEAKER_02: and I started my book after you got back from book leave and I still finished it
1:08
SPEAKER_02: before you.
1:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:11
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
1:12
SPEAKER_03: It says something.
1:12
SPEAKER_03: It does say something.
1:14
SPEAKER_03: This is going to sound like what I'm saying is derogatory.
1:17
SPEAKER_03: So just bear that in mind.
1:19
SPEAKER_03: I think they're different kinds of books.
1:21
SPEAKER_03: We'll see.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: We'll see.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: But I don't mean that in a negative way.
1:24
SPEAKER_03: You don't think they're different kinds of books?
1:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, you don't know.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Because you haven't actually read my book.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: It's possible that my book is actually about youth genders for you.
1:31
SPEAKER_03: Trans, youth gender, youth gender medicine.
1:33
SPEAKER_03: My current draft is, yours is 35,000 words, right?
1:36
SPEAKER_03: It's 55,000 words.
1:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:36
SPEAKER_03: My current draft, having written about 5,000 words today, is 95,605.
1:37
SPEAKER_03: Well, how many years did you take to write this book, Jessi?
1:51
SPEAKER_03: A little under two years.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:53
SPEAKER_03: So in terms of words per day,
1:54
SPEAKER_03: which is how authors are judged,
1:56
SPEAKER_03: just sheer number of words they shit out,
1:59
SPEAKER_03: diarrhea-like,
1:59
SPEAKER_03: you're killing me.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: I am killing you.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: I also took like three weeks off in the middle of July for our tour and I wanted to
2:05
SPEAKER_02: let the book marinate.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: So I wrote an entire book in like three and a half months.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's impressive.
2:12
SPEAKER_03: Actually, I hate to say it.
2:13
SPEAKER_03: I think it'll be a good book if I ever... If you read it.
2:16
SPEAKER_03: I think what I should do... Wait.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: Well,
2:18
SPEAKER_03: first of all,
2:18
SPEAKER_03: I'm obviously going to read it,
2:19
SPEAKER_03: but I think what I should do as part of the promotional rollout is become an
2:23
SPEAKER_03: alcoholic and then read the book to get better.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't think that's going to be hard for you, Jesse.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: I have seen you drink.
2:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's been an issue lately.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: How are you feeling about your book?
2:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean... I know it's still... We haven't actually turned them in yet, but how do you feel about it?
2:36
SPEAKER_03: Both stressed, but I'm increasingly realizing this is...
2:41
SPEAKER_03: Not to sound douchey,
2:41
SPEAKER_03: but this is the most complicated along thing I've ever written by a long shot,
2:45
SPEAKER_03: and I'm not going to feel...
2:46
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
2:48
SPEAKER_03: perfect about the draft i had like a really good interview today with like a trans
2:51
SPEAKER_03: teenager who was like incredibly smart and his mom is smart and i've talked to so
2:55
SPEAKER_03: many interesting people i i still think like and so you you bullied him to
2:59
SPEAKER_03: detransition i assume it must like you're not trans you're not trans prove it bitch
3:03
SPEAKER_03: i literally growled prove it bitch jesus uh that should be a good name for the uh
3:09
SPEAKER_03: no these are like really interesting stories and i'm grateful i'm
3:14
SPEAKER_03: There's still some work to go.
3:15
SPEAKER_03: I doubt my editors can be like, every word's perfect.
3:17
SPEAKER_03: Let's publish it.
3:17
SPEAKER_03: How do you feel about yours?
3:18
SPEAKER_03: This is your first book.
3:19
SPEAKER_03: It's a big deal.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: It is my first.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: This is my first and last book.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm not doing this again.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: I feel actually really good about it, which is surprising.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: I don't always feel good about my writing, but I actually do feel about this.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: Part of the reason is because I've had like 10 first readers,
3:34
SPEAKER_02: including people who are great writers and also people who are really knowledgeable
3:38
SPEAKER_02: about the subject matter.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: And then taking all of their feedback has, I think, really made it a lot stronger.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: And the hardest thing about this has been asking people for favors.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: And,
3:50
SPEAKER_02: like,
3:50
SPEAKER_02: we're not even at the part where it gets really fucking asking where you have to
3:54
SPEAKER_02: ask people for blurbs.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: How did you deal with that with your last book?
3:59
SPEAKER_02: Um...
4:00
SPEAKER_03: I just asked.
4:01
SPEAKER_03: I hate doing it.
4:02
SPEAKER_03: I got such a nice blurb, much nicer than I deserve from John Haidt.
4:07
SPEAKER_03: It's the fucking worst.
4:08
SPEAKER_03: And this subject,
4:10
SPEAKER_03: you'll have...
4:10
SPEAKER_03: Okay,
4:13
SPEAKER_03: on this one thing,
4:13
SPEAKER_03: you'll have an easier time than me because for me,
4:15
SPEAKER_03: it's not just people who like me or like my writing,
4:17
SPEAKER_03: but people who are willing to publicly endorse a book about...
4:20
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
4:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: For me, I think the difficulty is that I'm going to be asking people.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: I am going to be asking people who I who I know and people who have some fame for lack of a better term.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: I will be reaching out to all of the famous people listening to this.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: So you're being warned right now.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: But also Michael Hobbs.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: But also people who I don't have any relationship with and just like cold emailing them.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: It's probably not going to go very well.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: I did I did ask Chachi to be to write some letters for me some blurb asks and they
4:52
SPEAKER_02: were actually pretty good.
4:53
SPEAKER_03: Write a blurb for a book on alcoholism by Katie Herzog that is glowing.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: You know,
4:59
SPEAKER_02: I also fed the entire manuscript to perplexity,
5:03
SPEAKER_02: which I realized afterwards I shouldn't have done because now it's like has trained
5:06
SPEAKER_02: itself on my writing.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: But I asked it like, how many books is it going to sell?
5:11
SPEAKER_02: I asked who would be good to do blurbs.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: I asked for feedback.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: I just got the whole robotic rundown from perplexity.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: It was kind of actually kind of helpful.
5:20
SPEAKER_03: What did it, how many copies is it going to sell according to perplexity?
5:23
SPEAKER_02: In the first year, between 50 and 100,000.
5:25
SPEAKER_03: That would be insane.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, has AI ever been wrong?
5:28
SPEAKER_03: Right.
5:29
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
5:29
SPEAKER_03: So here's a blurb I got from chat GPT.
5:31
SPEAKER_03: Can I, I'll just put my name on this title.
5:33
SPEAKER_03: Unraveled a journey through.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: I actually like that.
5:37
SPEAKER_03: In Unraveled, Katie Herzog offers a raw, unflinchingly honest exploration of alcoholism.
5:44
SPEAKER_03: Katie Herzog offers a raw,
5:48
SPEAKER_03: unflinchingly honest exploration of alcoholism,
5:50
SPEAKER_03: tackling the disease with both empathy and courage.
5:52
SPEAKER_03: Doesn't sound like you.
5:53
SPEAKER_03: Herzog's writing is luminous.
5:55
SPEAKER_03: I don't think you would call it luminous.
5:57
SPEAKER_03: Drawing readers into the intimate moments of her personal battle while shedding
6:00
SPEAKER_03: light on the broader complexities of addiction.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: True.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: Her unique voice, at once tender and incisive.
6:07
SPEAKER_03: No.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: False.
6:08
SPEAKER_03: Makes this book not only a memoir, but a beacon of hope for those who are blah, blah, blah.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that last part might actually be true.
6:14
SPEAKER_03: What is a, okay, how many TKs do you have in your manuscript five days from turning it in?
6:19
SPEAKER_02: The only TKs I have are for the acknowledgements for the editors.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: I got to know what their names are and if I'm going to thank them, that's it.
6:29
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm in a very different boat.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm done.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm basically done.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm just going to fiddle with it over the next couple of days, but I'm pretty much done.
6:36
SPEAKER_03: What sucks is the one person I had left to interview is Eric Adams.
6:40
SPEAKER_03: And now I suspect that's horrible timing for that story because we're about to basically be on break.
6:45
SPEAKER_03: But Eric Adams, newly indicted.
6:47
SPEAKER_03: He is such a character.
6:49
SPEAKER_03: I should pay more attention to him.
6:51
SPEAKER_03: I have one ethical question, too.
6:53
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
6:55
SPEAKER_03: As I've gotten more stressed about the book, I've gotten in this habit where
7:01
SPEAKER_03: I'll order Seamless and then I'll eat the Seamless and I'll order Pinkberry on Seamless.
7:08
SPEAKER_03: So you're getting two in a row?
7:11
SPEAKER_03: Carbon footprint ramifications of paying an underpaid immigrant driver to bring me
7:17
SPEAKER_03: a single large yogurt with swirl and toppings.
7:20
SPEAKER_03: So I think that makes it more okay.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: I've never ordered Seamless in my life.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: I assume this is like a delivery service.
7:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you don't have Seamless.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: You don't think we have it?
7:30
SPEAKER_02: We probably don't.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: If you go to like a city in the middle of nowhere, you will have very few options on Seamless.
7:34
SPEAKER_03: Also, I got accused of being elitist because I did an episode.
7:39
SPEAKER_03: What did I say?
7:40
SPEAKER_02: You are.
7:40
SPEAKER_03: But what did I say in the episode that got people mad at me?
7:42
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: You're not elitist because of something you said.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: You're elitist because of who you are,
7:47
SPEAKER_02: where you were born,
7:48
SPEAKER_02: what your parents did,
7:49
SPEAKER_02: the house that you grew up in,
7:51
SPEAKER_02: where you went to college,
7:52
SPEAKER_02: who you hang out with,
7:53
SPEAKER_02: all of that stuff combined.
7:54
SPEAKER_03: No, grad school, not college.
7:56
SPEAKER_03: University of Michigan is not elitist.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, but first you went to Brandeis.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: Why did you leave?
8:00
SPEAKER_02: I had to.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: Why did you get kicked out?
8:03
SPEAKER_03: Bully.
8:04
SPEAKER_03: Were you the bully?
8:08
SPEAKER_03: Just give me a yes or no.
8:09
SPEAKER_03: Can I keep ordering Pinkberry on Seamless after eating something else from Seamless?
8:13
SPEAKER_02: Why don't you just order it at the same time?
8:14
SPEAKER_03: Okay, what are we talking about today?
8:16
SPEAKER_03: Oh, wait, this is blocked and reported.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: I'm kidding.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: I'm kidding right now.
8:20
SPEAKER_03: And I'm Jesse Singleton.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: I'm so fucking tired, dude.
8:23
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: No one wants to hear about how tired I am.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: We're going to power through.
8:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm so tired, y'all.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: I'm so tired, y'all.
8:29
SPEAKER_03: What are we talking about?
8:30
SPEAKER_02: This is a music review podcast today.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: We're going to be talking about, am I racist?
8:34
SPEAKER_02: We're going to be deciding, are you racist?
8:36
SPEAKER_03: You said a music review?
8:38
SPEAKER_02: Music.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: Movie.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: This is a movie review.
8:39
SPEAKER_03: You said music.
8:40
SPEAKER_03: There was some very bad music in that, which we'll get to.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: But first.
8:43
SPEAKER_03: But first, you have something for me.
8:45
SPEAKER_02: I do.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: So Jesse, a couple of weeks ago, now a couple of weeks ago, since we're recording this in the future.
8:51
SPEAKER_03: This whole time traveling thing is so weird.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: It is weird.
8:54
SPEAKER_03: The world might not exist by the time this comes out.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: If we're lucky.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: All right, Jesse.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: So a couple of weeks ago, I tweeted something that I personally found quite hilarious.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Would you allow me to read it to you?
9:04
SPEAKER_03: I would allow you to read it to me.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to do my best Katie Herzog voice.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: I have come across a story so repugnant that Libs of TikTok may have her first
9:11
SPEAKER_02: orgasm when she inevitably learns of it.
9:13
SPEAKER_03: That's a good one.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: That's a good tweet.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Should have gone viral.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Didn't.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: Well, I am surprised to announce that Libs of TikTok did not somehow find out about the
9:22
SPEAKER_02: this particular mess so let me tell you the story i'm gonna break it here at least
9:27
SPEAKER_02: for the internet crowd i got a text a couple weeks ago from a friend who lives in
9:31
SPEAKER_02: shoreline washington which is a suburb north of seattle sort of a working class
9:35
SPEAKER_02: town and he said quote holy fuck i've got the most wild and amazing story for you
9:40
SPEAKER_02: our local neighborhood coffee shop has been hosting secret extreme bds and parties
9:45
SPEAKER_03: in the kids playroom what uh that doesn't sound good
9:49
SPEAKER_02: Doesn't that sound like a Libs of TikTok fever dream?
9:52
SPEAKER_02: It's got sex, it's got queer, it's got kids.
9:55
SPEAKER_03: It's got, right.
9:55
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so there's a kid's playroom and then at night it's like a sex party?
9:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes,
10:00
SPEAKER_02: it seems like something that someone would prank her,
10:02
SPEAKER_02: would like Trace and his furry friends,
10:05
SPEAKER_02: would like make fake flyers to prank Libs of TikTok.
10:07
SPEAKER_03: But it's real.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: So.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: Fuck.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: And she never found out about it.
10:10
SPEAKER_02: I keep searching.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: She never found out about it.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: So the story is a coffee shop called Cafe Aroma received a cease and desist letter
10:18
SPEAKER_02: from the city of Shoreline.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: It was posted on their door after neighbors complained that they were holding BDSM events after hours.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: So my friend who lives right up the street from the coffee shop, he sent me a flyer for the event.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: Jesse, I'm going to ask you to read this.
10:33
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I can't wait.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: Read it in full.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: It's good.
10:36
SPEAKER_03: Darker play scenes will be accepted and encouraged during this event.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: We will have dungeon equipment available!
10:42
SPEAKER_03: Hard points, crosses... What's a hard point?
10:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: Maybe something you sit on?
10:46
SPEAKER_03: Like a boner type thing.
10:48
SPEAKER_03: Crosses and spanking benches will be set up.
10:51
SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, please be creative with the couches, tables, chairs, and floors available.
10:55
SPEAKER_03: Wait, these are where kids hang out?
10:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: Continue.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: Rules.
10:59
SPEAKER_03: No flaming...
11:00
SPEAKER_03: poop guns, parentheses, no fire, no deliberate feces, no gun, no deliberate feces.
11:07
SPEAKER_03: Do not be inebriated.
11:08
SPEAKER_03: This is a dry event.
11:10
SPEAKER_03: Doesn't sound like it's that dry.
11:12
SPEAKER_03: All other types of play and scenes will be acceptable, including those considered edgier.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: There will be volunteers available for any questions, but this is like...
11:21
SPEAKER_03: uh one-upping the ala gangbang there will be volunteers available for any questions
11:25
SPEAKER_03: but we will not have dungeon monitors policing individual seeds if this makes you
11:29
SPEAKER_03: uncomfortable please consider if this is the right event for you the venue will
11:32
SPEAKER_03: have hot and cold drinks and food items available to purchase please support them
11:35
SPEAKER_03: if you are able gotta have food it is a coffee shop please place a barrier do i
11:40
SPEAKER_03: have to read this sentence yes please place a barrier i'm gonna do it in my helen
11:46
SPEAKER_03: lewis voice
11:47
SPEAKER_03: Please place a barrier between your genitals and any surfaces.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: Do your RFK, Jane, your voice.
11:52
SPEAKER_03: No, people love yours.
11:53
SPEAKER_03: Can you read that one in your RFK?
11:55
SPEAKER_02: Please bring comfort items, towels and blankets, floors and mats for your personal use.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: Stop inundating me with sexual text messages.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: I can't resist.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: Contain any blood or other fluid.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: Play appropriately and bring your own sharps container.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: If applicable, we will have limited yoga mats available.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: Smiley face.
12:20
SPEAKER_03: You must have an individual ticket to enter.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: If you register and can no longer make it,
12:24
SPEAKER_03: please let me know so I can release your ticket to someone else.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: All right.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: And then there's the location.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: So first of all, no flaming poop guns.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: What the fuck?
12:35
SPEAKER_02: I thought we were inclusive around here.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Very disappointing.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:38
SPEAKER_03: Just a genuine question.
12:39
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what that means?
12:40
SPEAKER_02: No, but I think you should Google it.
12:42
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
12:42
SPEAKER_03: Not falling for that again.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: No.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: All right.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: Intern.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: Do we have any interns?
12:48
SPEAKER_03: She's in a different time zone.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: So here's what happened.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: Do not refer to our researcher as an intern.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: She's great.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: She's so much more than that.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: So here's what happened.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm taking this from reporting in the local Shoreline newspaper.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: They posted a photo of the cease and desist that was on the coffee shop's door,
13:05
SPEAKER_02: and it said,
13:06
SPEAKER_02: it is unlawful to operate an adult cabaret without first obtaining a regulatory
13:10
SPEAKER_02: business license.
13:11
SPEAKER_03: Oh, big government strikes again.
13:14
SPEAKER_03: Reason Magazine should cover this.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: yes and it named black onyx which is not the coffee shop itself but the group that
13:22
SPEAKER_02: was running the bdsm parties at the coffee shop so the local paper shoreline area
13:28
SPEAKER_02: news also reported that the initial complaint to the city read in part i discovered
13:33
SPEAKER_02: that these events appear to be adult oriented parties involving group sexual
13:36
SPEAKER_02: activities and bdsm practices
13:38
SPEAKER_02: These events are particularly concerning given that they take place in what is
13:41
SPEAKER_02: typically used as the kids' room during the day,
13:44
SPEAKER_02: a space designed for children with toys and play areas.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Can you believe lips of TikTok miss this?
13:49
SPEAKER_03: I don't understand.
13:50
SPEAKER_03: Is she like, is she okay?
13:51
SPEAKER_03: This worries me.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: Did she join the IDF?
13:53
SPEAKER_02: This makes no sense.
13:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh, wait.
13:55
SPEAKER_03: I just pictured that's dark.
13:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:59
SPEAKER_03: Chaya in the IDF.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: Chaya.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: Chaya.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: So the comments on this post on the Shoreline Area News are interesting.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: Sort of mixed reaction.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: One person says...
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
14:32
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's different.
14:34
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
14:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm not easily disgusted,
14:36
SPEAKER_03: and I actually think it's probably,
14:38
SPEAKER_03: at the end of the day,
14:38
SPEAKER_03: not a big deal,
14:39
SPEAKER_03: because I bet they actually do clean it up and desantize,
14:41
SPEAKER_03: but it's obviously not the same as a stray sneeze.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: Are you talking about flaming poop guns or whatever?
14:47
SPEAKER_02: No, they said no flaming poop guns.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm sorry.
14:49
SPEAKER_03: No flaming poop guns.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: But still, I mean, I am easily grossed out.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: I think that sneezing in public is also disgusting.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: But coming on a couch in the kids' playroom, it's too much.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: It's too much.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: And what I find interesting about this is that,
15:02
SPEAKER_02: you know,
15:03
SPEAKER_02: the BDSM crowd,
15:05
SPEAKER_02: they're all into consent,
15:06
SPEAKER_02: yet apparently the consent of the people bringing their kids into the playroom the
15:10
SPEAKER_02: next day after the sex party,
15:12
SPEAKER_02: that doesn't matter,
15:13
SPEAKER_02: right?
15:14
SPEAKER_03: I guess not.
15:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is just a very poor choice of venue.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: Here's another comment I liked.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: I can't imagine you truly think a community stable needs to be closed and a family
15:23
SPEAKER_02: needs to be removed from their source of income because you saw a cage and that
15:27
SPEAKER_02: makes you uncomfortable.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: These are your neighbors and they were not causing any harm.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
15:34
SPEAKER_03: Continue.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what to say to these comments.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if this is true.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: I haven't seen this verified anywhere,
15:42
SPEAKER_02: but the rumor going around the neighborhood is that they removed a human cage from
15:47
SPEAKER_02: the venue after all of this happened.
15:49
SPEAKER_03: So Black's Onyx... Oh, I didn't even realize I didn't get that.
15:53
SPEAKER_03: You saw a cage and that makes you uncomfortable.
15:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: You're uncomfortable by a human cage.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: What?
15:59
SPEAKER_02: Are you uncomfortable with slavery too?
16:00
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: Appropriation.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay,
16:03
SPEAKER_02: so Black Onyx put out a statement disputing that they were an adult cabaret because
16:07
SPEAKER_02: they didn't have performances.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: That was big news.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: They say,
16:14
SPEAKER_02: it appears that the cease and desist notice was served due to what seemed like a
16:17
SPEAKER_02: small group of people in the Ridgecrest neighborhood of Shoreline planning a
16:21
SPEAKER_02: protest against our events.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: Further, not one of these individuals reached out to Blacksonics in any way to discuss their concerns.
16:27
SPEAKER_03: Not one of these individuals reached out to tell us whether what we did was...
16:31
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
16:32
SPEAKER_03: they did reach out.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: They sent a cease and desist.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: They filed a complaint.
16:35
SPEAKER_03: They filed a complaint, yeah.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: It continues,
16:37
SPEAKER_02: our mission is to cultivate and grow ethically grounded events in a welcoming and
16:41
SPEAKER_02: inclusive environment in order to provide space for like-minded individuals to
16:44
SPEAKER_02: explore BDSM and related practices in a consent forward and risk aware environment.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: To this end, we have been offering social events such as karaoke and shibari socials.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: I think shibari is those ropes, the rope thing.
16:56
SPEAKER_03: I have a story about that when you're done.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: Discussion groups,
16:59
SPEAKER_02: support groups,
17:00
SPEAKER_02: munches,
17:01
SPEAKER_02: don't know what that is,
17:02
SPEAKER_02: and parties,
17:03
SPEAKER_02: all of which have created a secure sense of community among the kink,
17:06
SPEAKER_02: queer,
17:06
SPEAKER_02: and LGBTQ+,
17:07
SPEAKER_02: and otherwise involved humans.
17:09
SPEAKER_03: You forgot the A. You forgot asexual.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: A and otherwise involved humans we have facilitated this space for.
17:14
SPEAKER_02: Give me your story.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: Are you tied up right now?
17:16
SPEAKER_03: Well, a couple of things.
17:17
SPEAKER_03: One is I have a friend who had a relatively later in life blossoming where he's really into kink.
17:23
SPEAKER_03: And it's very interesting because he was not somebody you'd expect to be into kink.
17:26
SPEAKER_03: No,
17:26
SPEAKER_03: the story is in Chicago,
17:29
SPEAKER_03: Stephen Elliott,
17:30
SPEAKER_03: friend of the pod,
17:31
SPEAKER_03: came with a couple of friends to my thing with Jeff Maurer.
17:33
SPEAKER_03: Those two friends.
17:34
SPEAKER_02: Was he tied up?
17:35
SPEAKER_03: Probably like five minutes before I got there because those two friends of his own
17:39
SPEAKER_03: a rope bondage studio where they've actually invited.
17:43
SPEAKER_03: If we ever want to have an event there, we can.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: Do we have to be tied up?
17:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I didn't ask about that.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: They seem very nice.
17:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm not making fun of them.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: It's not my scene, but like Stephen Elliott does like being tied up.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: He's been open about that.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: So we have... He does.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: I've seen the pics.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: Really?
17:56
SPEAKER_03: Why?
17:56
SPEAKER_02: He posts them.
17:57
SPEAKER_02: He posts them on Twitter.
17:58
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I haven't seen that.
18:00
SPEAKER_03: He also didn't stick around for the after party.
18:02
SPEAKER_03: Maybe he's mad at me that I didn't get... Tied up?
18:05
SPEAKER_03: Roped up.
18:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, if anyone wants to have a blocked and reported... Sex party.
18:10
SPEAKER_03: Party...
18:11
SPEAKER_02: Ayla will be our special guest.
18:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: Everyone gets a free bathroom.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: So back to the story though.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: So I don't understand.
18:18
SPEAKER_03: Did the owners of this facility come repository slash daycare center or whatever,
18:24
SPEAKER_03: know what was going on at night?
18:26
SPEAKER_02: They're having a bakery in the morning and a.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: orgy party in the afternoon?
18:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think they knew.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the owners are named Rachel and Jonathan Tracy.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: He told Cairo,
18:35
SPEAKER_02: that's a TV station in Seattle,
18:38
SPEAKER_02: that the cafe had nothing to do with the event except that they provided the space.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: I don't frankly believe him.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: Quote, what I do know is that there weren't sex parties or anything like that, he said.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: There were BDSM and kink events, and that included demonstrations for educational purposes.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: But like, did he not see the flyer?
18:54
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty clear that this is a sex party.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: And he also says that this isn't going to stop him and his wife from being an ally to those communities.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: And I think he's more than an ally because there's a GoFundMe set up for the cafe.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: And there's a photo of his whole family, including their kids.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: Interesting choice.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: Let me read you a bit from that GoFundMe.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: Pfft.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: And then there's this tidbit.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: Rachel and Jonathan,
19:37
SPEAKER_02: outside of what you see at the cafe,
19:38
SPEAKER_02: have a young family with one other adult partner in the home.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: They also have three teenage children with diverse medical needs, not to mention the family pets.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: So they're a poly family.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: They put their kid's photo in this GoFundMe.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: They own the cafe that rented out the space to the sex parties in the kids' playroom.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: I think they knew.
20:00
SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is just like, you would think it's not hard to keep kids and sex separated.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: A lot of people seem- And yet.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: And yet, a lot of people seem to have, and not even like pedophiles.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: We're such a prude, Jesse.
20:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm such a prude.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: Such a prude.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, all they're trying to do is support the right to fuck in the kids' playroom in public.
20:23
SPEAKER_03: We've all been there.
20:24
SPEAKER_03: It's happened.
20:24
SPEAKER_03: It's happened to the best of us.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, the cafe reopened after just a couple of days.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: So if you ever want to get, you know, a side of gonorrhea with your biscotti, check them out.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: Cafe Aroma and Shoreline.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh,
20:35
SPEAKER_02: and by the way,
20:35
SPEAKER_02: I did,
20:36
SPEAKER_02: of course,
20:36
SPEAKER_02: ask my friend if he ever went and he said he didn't go,
20:40
SPEAKER_02: but he heard it,
20:41
SPEAKER_02: quote,
20:41
SPEAKER_02: like I heard fucking whips and moans.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: And he said the coffee was shitty.
20:45
SPEAKER_03: Maybe it was shitty because of the hot poop gun.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: No, there was no hot poop gun.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many times I have to tell you that.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: Oh, sorry.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: No hot poop gun.
20:51
SPEAKER_03: That was a disgusting story.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: I will never forgive you.
20:56
SPEAKER_03: You're welcome.
20:57
SPEAKER_03: One other thing I forgot to tell you about my time in Chicago.
21:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you this because I don't remember, but I think you smoked weed once, right?
21:06
SPEAKER_03: You've smoked marijuana?
21:07
SPEAKER_02: In Chicago, yes.
21:08
SPEAKER_03: No, ever.
21:09
SPEAKER_03: Anywhere.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: Only in Chicago, but yes.
21:11
SPEAKER_03: I told this on stage at the Dawkins thing, but that's not going to be public anyway.
21:15
SPEAKER_03: But when I landed,
21:17
SPEAKER_03: I got a tour of a craft cannabis facility because someone close to me co-owns it
21:22
SPEAKER_03: and is running a craft cannabis business.
21:24
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what a Hermie is?
21:26
SPEAKER_02: No.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: It sounds like a STD.
21:28
SPEAKER_03: A Hermie is a hermaphrodite.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: And what happens is they grow...
21:33
SPEAKER_03: Is that what?
21:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing that this is something to do with plants.
21:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:37
SPEAKER_03: They grow female plants because they're, I guess, better for smoking.
21:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:42
SPEAKER_03: When you stress out the plants, they think they're going to die.
21:46
SPEAKER_03: So they become hermaphrodites.
21:48
SPEAKER_03: So they can either pollinate themselves or their neighbors.
21:51
SPEAKER_03: And I was in a room with all these legal marijuana plants.
21:54
SPEAKER_03: And if one of them turns hermy, it can just sprout.
21:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because they have fans to spread everything.
22:02
SPEAKER_03: Like the climate control.
22:04
SPEAKER_03: This is a known thing among potheads.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: Your weed gets all seedy.
22:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've grown weed a couple times, but not very good weed.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: But you definitely don't want males in your stable.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: Staple?
22:16
SPEAKER_02: In your garden.
22:17
SPEAKER_03: How do you sex them?
22:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, you buy female plants is how I do it.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: But I don't know how actual growers do it.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: My weed wasn't good.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: I think I still have some.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: It's like...
22:26
SPEAKER_02: growing your own marijuana when you're in a legal weed state is kind of silly it's
22:30
SPEAKER_02: just like it's never going to be as good as the shit you can get down the street at
22:33
SPEAKER_03: the dispensary the process i like i'm not particularly interested in marijuana
22:36
SPEAKER_03: because my brain's too broken to really enjoy it but like the process of like
22:41
SPEAKER_03: growing and like snipping and cloning and dry it was crazy it's like a real it's a
22:45
SPEAKER_02: real thing it really is it really is big business that's my take it's my take
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's talk about the movie.
22:52
SPEAKER_03: Wait, should we do housekeeping?
22:53
SPEAKER_03: Sure, you do it.
22:53
SPEAKER_03: This is a podcast.
22:54
SPEAKER_03: BlockedReported.org.
22:56
SPEAKER_03: We're coming at you from the past.
22:58
SPEAKER_03: We traveled into the future to tell this to you.
23:00
SPEAKER_03: But presumably when this episode airs on what?
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Depends on if you're a primo or a free listener.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be out for free listeners on the 7th.
23:11
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Presumably,
23:13
SPEAKER_03: our Reddit,
23:14
SPEAKER_03: blocktremporter.reddit.com,
23:16
SPEAKER_03: will still exist,
23:17
SPEAKER_03: and you can still email us at blocktremporter.
23:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, wait.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: Did you see the email about that?
23:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:21
SPEAKER_03: Someone's mad that I think they... No, not that.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: What?
23:24
SPEAKER_02: Oh, my God.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: You don't read our emails, do you?
23:26
SPEAKER_02: Reddit has announced that they are... I do.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: I read every email.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: Reddit hasn't...
23:29
SPEAKER_02: You apparently don't,
23:30
SPEAKER_02: because Reddit has...
23:30
SPEAKER_02: We got an email from a listener who said that Reddit has announced that they're
23:34
SPEAKER_02: doing away with the URL that we've been reading forever.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: They're doing away with all of the subreddit dot reddit dot.
23:41
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I thought you were going to say they just quit.
23:43
SPEAKER_03: They blew us up.
23:46
SPEAKER_03: Okay, reddit.com slash r slash blocked and reported.
23:48
SPEAKER_03: How hard is that?
23:50
SPEAKER_02: Why are they doing that?
23:51
SPEAKER_02: It's so much harder.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: Probably anti-semitism.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: There's two slashes.
23:55
SPEAKER_03: Okay, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Also, we don't have anything to do with the subreddit, just so people know.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: So if you have complaints about it, don't direct them to us.
24:05
SPEAKER_03: That's what I thought you were talking about.
24:06
SPEAKER_03: Someone had a complaint about Israel-Palestine, which I think we should get into.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: We have nothing to do with the moderation.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: We don't own this.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: Soft and Chewy is the moderator, the owner.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: I think he does a good job.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: I do too.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: This is not our thing.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: We should probably stop saying it's our Reddit, that we're on Reddit, because we're not.
24:23
SPEAKER_03: The podcast, it doesn't belong to anyone, but it belongs to the podcast and no one can own a podcast.
24:28
SPEAKER_03: It belongs to the people.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: The people.
24:30
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if it belongs to the people.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: I'm not ready to socialize it.
24:33
SPEAKER_03: um and also the other thing is that you should check out blotter reporter.org the
24:39
SPEAKER_03: bonus primo i was gonna say we just did at this point it'll be several weeks old
24:44
SPEAKER_03: but it did really well the one we did on olivia newsley and this this incredibly
24:47
SPEAKER_02: wholesome romance uh dude i thought of i thought of something i forgot to mention
24:52
SPEAKER_03: on that just say it now
24:54
SPEAKER_02: All right.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: She doesn't have daddy issues.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: She has granddaddy issues.
24:57
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
24:58
SPEAKER_03: That's really unfair.
25:00
SPEAKER_03: And worth it.
25:01
SPEAKER_03: I cannot get over the storyline that RFK Jr.,
25:05
SPEAKER_03: who will...
25:06
SPEAKER_03: Some people say men are accused that he'll fuck anything that walks.
25:11
SPEAKER_03: That's not strong enough for RFK Jr.
25:13
SPEAKER_03: And yet, in this case, he tried with all his might to resist her, and he just couldn't.
25:18
SPEAKER_03: He's such a piece of shit.
25:19
SPEAKER_03: What if it's true love?
25:20
SPEAKER_03: That's the thing.
25:21
SPEAKER_03: I think it's true love.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: What if it's like a Woody Allen,
25:24
SPEAKER_02: Sunyu Previn story,
25:26
SPEAKER_02: and by the time this comes out,
25:27
SPEAKER_02: they have run away together and they are married?
25:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh, my God.
25:30
SPEAKER_03: It could happen.
25:32
SPEAKER_03: Where are we in the housekeeping process?
25:34
SPEAKER_02: I'll just go ahead and finish this.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: Go to blogtonreported.org and for just $5 a month, you get twice as much content.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: That's what I said.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: While I'm finishing it.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: This is also the best, really the only way to support this podcast.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: You could also like tell your friends,
25:47
SPEAKER_02: write and review us on iTunes,
25:48
SPEAKER_02: but much more important is that you support us financially because our primos,
25:52
SPEAKER_02: our premium subscribers are the reason we can.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: continue to do this without them, without you, all this goes away.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: That is a threat.
25:59
SPEAKER_03: All this goes away.
26:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:00
SPEAKER_03: And we're going to kill the kid if you don't keep supporting us.
26:03
SPEAKER_03: That didn't make sense.
26:07
SPEAKER_03: It's 1040 Eastern Time, just so people have context.
26:09
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
26:09
SPEAKER_03: So we watched Am I Racist by Matt Walsh, which is the first theatrical release from The Daily Wire.
26:15
SPEAKER_03: They provided us with... Is it?
26:17
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
26:17
SPEAKER_03: That's what I was told.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: Theatrical release, yeah.
26:19
SPEAKER_03: By The Economist.
26:20
SPEAKER_03: They provided us with review copies.
26:23
SPEAKER_03: It's been entirely ignored by mainstream outlets.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: Wait, okay, but that's not like giving us a screener.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: That's not like a favor.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: That's what you do for reviewers.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was a favor, like Ben Shapiro.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: You personally emailed Ben Shapiro.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: I just don't think that we should think that this is like a big deal because reviewers get review copies.
26:44
SPEAKER_03: Well, no, it's not a big deal at all.
26:45
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
26:46
SPEAKER_03: For some reason, it seemed important to me.
26:47
SPEAKER_03: Okay,
26:48
SPEAKER_03: did you and I meet halfway between us and like go to a movie together and get some
26:52
SPEAKER_03: popcorn and pay for Am I Racist by Matt Walsh?
26:55
SPEAKER_02: No, but I'm just saying like, that's a very standard practice.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: It's not like, that's not like that.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: That won't like influence the fact that we didn't have to disclose that we got a screener.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: Every reviewer gets a fucking screener unless they don't have Ben Shapiro's email address.
27:09
SPEAKER_03: Do I,
27:10
SPEAKER_03: do I need,
27:11
SPEAKER_03: do I need to disclose that after I,
27:13
SPEAKER_03: that when I thanked Ben,
27:14
SPEAKER_03: I sent him a photo of my penis?
27:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes, you do need to disclose that.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's disclosed.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: So full disclosure, estimated value of the two copies we got.
27:28
SPEAKER_03: Well, movie tickets these days are like 16 bucks.
27:30
SPEAKER_03: So that's like $32 plus I would have got popcorn.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: I don't think they pay for that.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: This movie has been totally ignored by mainstream outlets, even though it's in like... Not quite true.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: Who paid attention to it?
27:41
SPEAKER_02: Megan McArdle did a review of it.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: It's been in the Hollywood Reporter.
27:44
SPEAKER_03: It hasn't really gotten movie reviews, though.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: The Hollywood Reporter reviewed it.
27:49
SPEAKER_03: Well or poorly.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: The review itself was, I would say, neither good nor bad.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: But they're not offering any stars in this, which is what a review really needs.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: No stars.
27:59
SPEAKER_03: Well, so we've both watched it.
28:01
SPEAKER_03: At the count of three.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: Wait, how many?
28:02
SPEAKER_02: Both stars.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean, how many, what's our metric here?
28:05
SPEAKER_03: Right, because there's that debate over that.
28:06
SPEAKER_03: Well, originally I was going to do a letter grade with pluses or minus.
28:08
SPEAKER_03: Do you want to do that?
28:09
SPEAKER_02: No, stars.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: We're movie reviewers.
28:10
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
28:11
SPEAKER_03: Now we're movie reviewers.
28:12
SPEAKER_03: Let's do four stars and you can do half stars.
28:15
SPEAKER_03: At the count of three.
28:17
SPEAKER_03: One, two, three.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: Two stars.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Hey.
28:21
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: So neither of us thought it was that good.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: No.
28:25
SPEAKER_03: I will expand.
28:26
SPEAKER_03: Is that your whole review?
28:27
SPEAKER_03: Just no.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess before we give our critiques, we should give sort of an overview of the film.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: Do you want to do that?
28:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:34
SPEAKER_03: So basically, Matt Walsh, it's his exploration of the DEI industry, and it involves interviews.
28:40
SPEAKER_03: It also,
28:41
SPEAKER_03: and I have a whole thing about this,
28:43
SPEAKER_03: involves a lot of him playing this sort of alter ego character,
28:45
SPEAKER_03: like someone in disguise,
28:47
SPEAKER_03: just this sort of earnest,
28:48
SPEAKER_03: actually pretty Seattle-looking DEI trainer.
28:52
SPEAKER_03: He gets quote-unquote certified.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: So the movie is like, his last movie is What is a Woman?,
28:57
SPEAKER_03: and it was somewhat similar in the sense that he like interviewed quote-unquote
29:02
SPEAKER_03: experts who are sort of clowns as well as doing man on the street interviews but i
29:05
SPEAKER_03: thought this one was in a much more boratty direction than the last one like he
29:11
SPEAKER_03: spent way more time like in this character acting a little bit ridiculous
29:14
SPEAKER_02: I'd agree with you.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately for the film, Matt Walsh isn't... He's not a very good actor.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: So this character that he's playing,
29:24
SPEAKER_02: this like earnest Matt Walsh character who's on this journey to discover whether or
29:31
SPEAKER_02: not he's racist,
29:32
SPEAKER_02: it just...
29:32
SPEAKER_02: Like he's good at keeping a straight face,
29:35
SPEAKER_02: but the fake earnestness just doesn't work for me.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: And the problem is like...
29:43
SPEAKER_02: Borat, Sacha Baron Cohen, we can get into this, but I kind of can't stand the Borat movies.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: But Borat, Sacha Baron Cohen is a comic.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Matt Walsh himself is not funny.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: Like the straight face.
29:56
SPEAKER_03: I don't think he's that.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: The straight face is just his face, though.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: Like he needs to either, I think, lean in and make it more ridiculous or just drop the facade.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: Like Borat does voices.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: He wears costumes like Matt.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the character didn't really work for me.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: Also,
30:35
SPEAKER_03: a fair amount of it was just him sort of being a jerk,
30:37
SPEAKER_03: going to a training and acting just like a jerk in a way where you're almost
30:43
SPEAKER_03: rooting for the diversity trainer and these poor schmucky white people at the training.
30:46
SPEAKER_03: But I also thought the bigger problem was...
30:49
SPEAKER_03: What is a woman was funny because it had such a narrow deserving focus.
30:54
SPEAKER_03: Like it is in fact ridiculous that some liberals and lefties became so untethered
30:59
SPEAKER_03: from reality and up their own butts politically that they could no longer even
31:02
SPEAKER_03: define woman.
31:03
SPEAKER_03: Like that's hilarious.
31:05
SPEAKER_03: It had some like bad real world policy, but that's undeniably funny, right?
31:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: I thought what is a woman was funny.
31:11
SPEAKER_03: So that one was mostly just Walsh asking people with fancy academic titles, what is a woman?
31:16
SPEAKER_03: And then letting audiences watch them squirm or spurt gibberish.
31:21
SPEAKER_03: There was also an amazing scene.
31:22
SPEAKER_03: My favorite was when,
31:24
SPEAKER_03: in response to the common liberal claim that the gender binary is a white colonial invention,
31:28
SPEAKER_03: or I guess leftist claim,
31:29
SPEAKER_03: he goes to hang out with African tribesmen and asks about trans stuff.
31:33
SPEAKER_03: That's legitimately funny.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: As I said at the time, if you're willing to cross an ocean to trigger the lips...
31:38
SPEAKER_03: He's committed.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm with it.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: I obviously do not share Matt Walsh's politics, but that was good.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: But I thought the problems with Am I Racist were basically twofold.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: When What Is a Woman came out, that was still a taboo subject in liberal spaces.
31:52
SPEAKER_03: It arguably still is.
31:55
SPEAKER_03: If you say What Is a Woman, people are like, oh, you're a conservative, you're a TERF.
31:58
SPEAKER_03: But at this point, the whole DEI scene is thoroughly chewed over.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
32:02
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: I went back to figure out what was published when.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: We had Khalifa Sana's New Yorker piece criticizing D'Angelo to Ibram X. Kendi.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: I don't think Kendi's mentioned in the Walsh film.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: That was August of 2019.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think there's a clip of him.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there's a clip.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: But that's it.
32:18
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's 2019.
32:20
SPEAKER_03: Less than flattering profile of Robin DiAngelo in the New York Times Magazine in 2020.
32:24
SPEAKER_03: Then we had a feature from Molly Fisher on Race to Dinner and Saira Rao, who's also in this film.
32:28
SPEAKER_03: New York Magazine, May of 2021.
32:30
SPEAKER_03: January of 2023,
32:31
SPEAKER_03: the New York Times lets me write a column about the poor evidence behind diversity trainings.
32:35
SPEAKER_03: It seems safe to say that when the New York Times is not only covering a
32:39
SPEAKER_03: controversy in its opinion pages,
32:40
SPEAKER_03: but allowing Jesse fucking Singleton to write it,
32:42
SPEAKER_03: at least some of the taboo isn't there anymore.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: I completely agree.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: I think that this might have been funnier and more powerful in 2020, 2021, even 22.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: But at this point,
32:53
SPEAKER_02: Robin DiAngelo,
32:53
SPEAKER_02: who is in the film herself,
32:55
SPEAKER_02: and these other folks,
32:57
SPEAKER_02: Ibram Kendi,
32:58
SPEAKER_02: the Race to Dinner women,
32:59
SPEAKER_02: random DEI trainers,
33:01
SPEAKER_02: they've lost their spot at the top of the heap.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, wokeness, I don't know if it's dying, but it's certainly on the way.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: And I think some people...
33:10
SPEAKER_02: don't want to admit that because they need something to continue to fight against,
33:14
SPEAKER_02: which is there's something sort of ironic about that to me.
33:17
SPEAKER_02: It reminds me of activists who pretend that it's the worst time ever to be queer or
33:21
SPEAKER_02: black or whatever,
33:22
SPEAKER_02: because that narrative keeps them in business.
33:25
SPEAKER_03: And he says that at the end,
33:27
SPEAKER_03: he gives this like little fake speech where he talks about like,
33:31
SPEAKER_03: DEI trainers want to paint America as irredeemably racist,
33:34
SPEAKER_03: because that
33:35
SPEAKER_02: He wants to paint it as irredeemably woke in a way.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: The Economist has a good,
33:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
33:40
SPEAKER_02: or,
33:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
33:41
SPEAKER_02: that's a little bit unfair because he also does these man on the street interviews
33:44
SPEAKER_02: with normal people who are like,
33:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't see race,
33:47
SPEAKER_02: you know,
33:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Which is fine,
33:48
SPEAKER_02: but like,
33:49
SPEAKER_03: is that news that the average man on the street doesn't think about race the way,
33:53
SPEAKER_03: like we were talking about that four years ago.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: The Economist has a good piece out that came out now.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: So two weeks in the past for people listening to us, that included polling.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: People are over woke.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and that might change if Trump wins.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: Maybe the band will get back together.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: But just like...
34:09
SPEAKER_02: Well,
34:10
SPEAKER_03: it doesn't mean that like individual,
34:12
SPEAKER_03: thankfully for our podcast,
34:13
SPEAKER_03: there's still pockets of it.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Thank God.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: But look at like big picture, like look at Kamala Harris.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: In 2019, 2020, she introduced herself with her pronouns at a debate. 2024...
34:24
SPEAKER_03: Mandatory sex changes for illegal immigrants.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: 2024,
34:28
SPEAKER_02: she barely acknowledges the fact that she may very well be the first woman in the
34:32
SPEAKER_02: White House or the first woman of color,
34:34
SPEAKER_02: especially like identity politics.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: Identitarianism doesn't play well with normal people.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: Our side, we basically won.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, that doesn't change the fact that these DEI trainings.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: They still they obviously exist.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: And some of this dogma has been institutionalized in government, education, the military.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: And it would have been really interesting to see that on film.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: But instead,
34:57
SPEAKER_02: Matt Walsh goes to these like random anti-racist trainings that are silly,
35:01
SPEAKER_02: but that people volunteer to take part in,
35:04
SPEAKER_02: which is like,
35:05
SPEAKER_02: OK,
35:05
SPEAKER_02: I think it's dumb.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: But people are allowed to confess their whiteness on their own time if they want
35:10
SPEAKER_02: and pay for the privilege of doing it.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: than to pay to attend a private one.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: If he had done that, the film could have been really strong.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: And people have gotten into these trainings.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: Kala Fasane,
35:32
SPEAKER_02: who you just mentioned at The New Yorker,
35:34
SPEAKER_02: he got into one at Starbucks years ago after there was a...
35:37
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember this?
35:39
SPEAKER_03: In Philly... Two guys were sitting like waiting for someone and they got arrested for like...
35:44
SPEAKER_02: No, they got kicked out of Starbucks.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: Did they get arrested?
35:46
SPEAKER_03: I thought that was the whole thing, that they got arrested.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: They definitely got kicked out.
35:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, look it up.
35:51
SPEAKER_03: Black men, yeah, black men.
35:52
SPEAKER_03: That was the whole thing.
35:53
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Starbucks closed all of their shops for these anti-racist trainings.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: Kelly Fasane from The New Yorker
36:00
SPEAKER_02: He did a piece for This American Life going to these trainings.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: He got in.
36:04
SPEAKER_02: That was so much more revealing and, frankly, fucking timely.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: And so this felt old.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: It felt stale.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
36:10
SPEAKER_02: of course,
36:10
SPEAKER_02: you and I already know most of this shit,
36:12
SPEAKER_02: so I'm curious how this would play with a true normie who is not online at all and
36:16
SPEAKER_02: has no idea who Matt Walsh or Robin DiAngelo is.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: But...
36:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure they're going to go see the movie either.
36:22
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it isn't just... I agree with you on the Randos, but it isn't just Randos.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: He also talks to famous people who were at the top of this pyramid, or maybe still are.
36:29
SPEAKER_03: At one point, he interviews Robin DiAngelo.
36:31
SPEAKER_03: He also fakes his way as a waiter or a caterer into a Saira Rao-hosted race to dinner.
36:38
SPEAKER_03: Let's listen to a clip from that part.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: You're going to hear some clattering.
36:41
SPEAKER_03: That's him trying to do Borat and dropping some dishes.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: I used to be a white woman, an unsuccessful one, for many decades, and it was a miserable experience.
36:51
SPEAKER_02: And really, the hatred of yourselves and each other is, like, the most.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: The not seeing your power, the being afraid.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: Like, all you do is talk shit about each other, talk shit about yourself.
37:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh, my God, I'm so fat.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: That's all they do.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm telling you.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: These white women?
37:07
SPEAKER_02: But it's, it's, that's it.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: It's, I'm so fat, I'm so stupid, I'm blah, blah, blah.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
37:20
SPEAKER_02: Your kids are watching you,
37:22
SPEAKER_02: and they're watching you talking shit about each other,
37:24
SPEAKER_02: you know,
37:25
SPEAKER_02: raging against the machine or being silent or whatever the hell it is that you're
37:28
SPEAKER_02: doing or not doing,
37:29
SPEAKER_02: and they know that you're not doing shit for them.
37:31
SPEAKER_03: That's so important.
37:32
SPEAKER_03: That is so important what you just said.
37:36
SPEAKER_03: It's really important.
37:39
SPEAKER_03: That's all.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: We may have to add you to our team.
37:41
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I would love to take a seat and join you.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: No, you're not allowed to.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Definitely not allowed.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
37:47
SPEAKER_03: I do have my DEI.
37:50
SPEAKER_03: certification that I got.
37:52
SPEAKER_03: So not saying I'm an expert, but I'm also not a novice.
37:56
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: White people are starved for these conversations.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: We are.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: We're so starving.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: We are so starving for this.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: Anyone else want to say anything?
38:07
SPEAKER_03: I'll just say one thing.
38:08
SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad we can have these conversations and I'll be done.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: But I'm just so glad that we could all get together to have these conversations.
38:16
SPEAKER_03: That's all I wanted to say.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: Is he an actor?
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Are you an actor?
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh, no.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Can you let us?
38:21
SPEAKER_01: We're trying to listen and trying to have this conversation.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
38:23
SPEAKER_03: You know, we're all acting all the time in our lives.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's part of the problem, you know?
38:32
SPEAKER_03: That it's like we're all trying to play a part rather than just being real and
38:35
SPEAKER_03: having these uncomfortable conversations.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: So yeah,
38:37
SPEAKER_03: the problem is like some of these scenes are okay,
38:40
SPEAKER_03: but there's been so much coverage of Robin DiAngelo and Cyra Rowe.
38:48
SPEAKER_03: Now, here's the thing though.
38:49
SPEAKER_03: The normies might not be, you were questioning how the normies would respond.
38:53
SPEAKER_03: Here's another article in The Economist.
38:55
SPEAKER_03: This is actually a column by noted racist James Bennett,
38:58
SPEAKER_03: who sparked some diversity trainings of his own at the Times.
39:01
SPEAKER_03: Just kidding, James.
39:03
SPEAKER_03: Um,
39:03
SPEAKER_03: so the lead into this is he's talking about the man on the street interviews where
39:06
SPEAKER_03: both black people and white people are like,
39:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't see race.
39:09
SPEAKER_03: We're all the same on the inside.
39:10
SPEAKER_03: Blah, blah, blah.
39:11
SPEAKER_03: Here's what James Bennett says.
39:12
SPEAKER_03: Those dissonant yet harmonious messages might warrant a hearing on the right now
39:16
SPEAKER_03: more than on the left as Springfield,
39:17
SPEAKER_03: Ohio quakes beneath fact free claims by the Republican presidential ticket that
39:21
SPEAKER_03: Haitian immigrants are eating pets.
39:23
SPEAKER_03: Indeed, the movie seems counter-cyclical.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: As The Economist reports this week,
39:26
SPEAKER_03: concerns over such matters as quote-unquote white privilege peaked three years ago
39:30
SPEAKER_03: after the protests against the police killing of George Floyd,
39:33
SPEAKER_03: yet Am I Racist is finding a sizable audience.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: Released on September 13th,
39:36
SPEAKER_03: it was fourth at the box office in its first weekend,
39:39
SPEAKER_03: bringing in $4.5 million and beating out a new action movie,
39:42
SPEAKER_03: The Killer's Game,
39:43
SPEAKER_03: dot,
39:43
SPEAKER_03: dot,
39:43
SPEAKER_03: dot.
39:44
SPEAKER_03: Am I Racist has not been reviewed by a mainstream publication,
39:47
SPEAKER_03: though it has received a 99% audience rating,
39:48
SPEAKER_03: now 98%.
39:50
SPEAKER_03: On the fan site,
39:51
SPEAKER_03: Rotten Tomatoes,
39:51
SPEAKER_03: predictably silenced from left of center publications,
39:53
SPEAKER_03: has sharpened interest from the right.
39:55
SPEAKER_03: Elon Musk has tweeted in solidarity.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: Of course he has.
39:59
SPEAKER_03: So,
39:59
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
39:59
SPEAKER_03: it sounds like,
40:00
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
40:01
SPEAKER_03: 4.5 million opening weekend for a film that probably did not cost that much to make.
40:04
SPEAKER_03: It's doing well.
40:05
SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't know.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they paid some of these grifters a lot of money.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: He pays some of his subjects.
40:13
SPEAKER_03: So here's a clip where he interviews the woman who is at the center of this
40:17
SPEAKER_03: controversy where I guess some kids had stickers on their laptops at the
40:21
SPEAKER_03: Multicultural Center at Arizona State University.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: This woman was very offended by that.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: They're pro-police stickers.
40:27
SPEAKER_02: They're white boys with pro-police.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: Pro-police states.
40:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:30
SPEAKER_03: So the first thing you'll hear in this clip is her yelling at some kids,
40:33
SPEAKER_03: like the actual footage of this blow up.
40:36
SPEAKER_03: And then you'll hear the introduction from Walsh.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: Because you can choose to be a cop,
40:40
SPEAKER_00: you can choose to kill people with a badge,
40:43
SPEAKER_00: and you're protecting that shit,
40:44
SPEAKER_00: which means that you're racist.
40:46
SPEAKER_03: Meet the charming young lady from that video,
40:49
SPEAKER_03: Sarah Takola,
40:50
SPEAKER_03: founding member of Black Lives Matter Phoenix.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: She has a PhD in sustainability, which means...
40:56
SPEAKER_03: Something really important, I'm sure.
40:57
SPEAKER_03: She's agreed to help me learn how to decolonize myself.
41:01
SPEAKER_03: For a $1,500 fee, of course.
41:03
SPEAKER_03: What point is he making?
41:04
SPEAKER_03: Is she a grifter because she wouldn't,
41:06
SPEAKER_03: like,
41:07
SPEAKER_03: if some,
41:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
41:08
SPEAKER_03: if I was asked to be in a documentary by someone,
41:11
SPEAKER_03: it's hard to put myself in that shoes.
41:12
SPEAKER_03: We can't really take money for different reasons because we're journalists or the
41:15
SPEAKER_03: ethics are different,
41:15
SPEAKER_03: but like,
41:16
SPEAKER_03: who cares that she took money?
41:17
SPEAKER_03: And then the really surprising one, do you remember the Disney mascot?
41:20
SPEAKER_03: Of course, I just watched the movie.
41:22
SPEAKER_03: Well, remind everyone what happened.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: So this was in Philadelphia.
41:25
SPEAKER_02: This was at Sesame Playground, which is some sort of like Sesame themed amusement park or something.
41:31
SPEAKER_02: There were these two young black girls who were trying to say hi to a furry.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: One of the one of the Sesame Street furries, sex freaks, obviously, Rosita.
41:41
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what she's into, but clearly a freak.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: And she basically ignore.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: She's like saying hi to other people.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: And she ignores these two little girls.
41:50
SPEAKER_02: The mom or somebody was filming this.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: The footage goes viral and it became a big story.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: Sesame Street or Sesame Playground or whatever.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: Apologize.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: Big fucking story.
41:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which I'm sorry.
42:00
SPEAKER_03: I was so skeptical of this because you just could not.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: The video looked sort of bad, but it was just one of those classic instances.
42:06
SPEAKER_03: You can't tell.
42:06
SPEAKER_03: You can't tell.
42:07
SPEAKER_02: It's a person with a giant mascot.
42:10
SPEAKER_02: You cannot tell.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: Shockingly, I have never been in a fursuit.
42:15
SPEAKER_02: That does surprise me.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: Furries right in.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: Tell us, how hard is it, how easy it is, is it to see through the fursuit?
42:23
SPEAKER_02: How big are the eye holes?
42:24
SPEAKER_03: So first of all, this led to a lawsuit.
42:27
SPEAKER_03: Matt Walsh interviews Jodi Brown, the mom, I guess, whose daughters were ignored.
42:31
SPEAKER_03: Same deal.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: He pays her, but he pays her $50,000.
42:33
SPEAKER_03: What?
42:35
SPEAKER_03: It was crazy.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: And the point of that clip seems to be the pressing question that he has for her is,
42:42
SPEAKER_02: do you know who was in the Muppet suit,
42:45
SPEAKER_02: the mascot?
42:46
SPEAKER_03: What race they were.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: What race they were.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: And she says, no.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: And he says, like, do you know if it was a white person?
42:51
SPEAKER_02: And she says, no.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: And that's it.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: Had he actually found out that it was like, you know, a queer black trans person?
42:59
SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure that's a $50,000 scoop, even if he did find out.
43:02
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
43:03
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, kudos for her.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: And that's the I think that's the strength of the of the movie is showing that
43:10
SPEAKER_02: these people are opportunistic.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he's offering them money.
43:13
SPEAKER_02: He's enabling them.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, but I do.
43:17
SPEAKER_03: I don't.
43:18
SPEAKER_03: It's just when we got offered like people's annual salary for a lot of people to
43:24
SPEAKER_03: just sit for a documentary and surely have the travel cover too.
43:27
SPEAKER_03: Why would she possibly say no to that?
43:28
SPEAKER_03: I don't think it proves anything about her.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: What he's trying to do is show that these DEI trainers are grifters.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: I think that's his whole point.
43:35
SPEAKER_02: And his strongest example of that would be the Robin DiAngelo case.
43:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I guess one of the few... Okay, so first of all, for $50,000, this woman says nothing.
43:45
SPEAKER_03: She does say that she thinks mascots should be better trained.
43:48
SPEAKER_03: It's kind of a funny quote, but again, not $50,000.
43:50
SPEAKER_03: The D'Angelo one at least gave him a moment,
43:54
SPEAKER_03: and that moment was when he brings with him this black producer or an actor playing
44:00
SPEAKER_03: one of his producers,
44:01
SPEAKER_03: and he says he's going to provide...
44:04
SPEAKER_03: the producer with reparations and he pulls out his wallet and gives him a little money.
44:08
SPEAKER_03: And then they sort of through social awkwardness,
44:11
SPEAKER_03: get Robin D'Angelo to go over to her bag and give him money.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: I, it was weird, but like, she even says that in the clip, she says, this is weird.
44:20
SPEAKER_02: And that,
44:21
SPEAKER_02: So this clip got a lot of play online.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: So based on that, I thought that this was going to be an amazing moment of the film.
44:27
SPEAKER_02: But I think what this moment reveals more than anything is that a lot of people
44:32
SPEAKER_02: will do anything to avoid conflict.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: And so they just play along during the moment to make it go by faster.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: She even says, this is weird.
44:41
SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't reveal much.
44:42
SPEAKER_02: This was also my problem with the Borat films.
44:45
SPEAKER_02: This doesn't reveal much about racism or the lack thereof in America as much as it
44:50
SPEAKER_02: does the incredibly common aversion to conflict and being in awkward situations.
44:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:58
SPEAKER_03: I didn't think it really revealed much about D'Angelo, especially because she pointed out it was weird.
45:03
SPEAKER_03: She eventually did it.
45:04
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, she just probably wanted them to pack up and get out of there at that point.
45:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:09
SPEAKER_02: Megan McArdle wrote a review of this in The Washington Post,
45:12
SPEAKER_02: and I think she absolutely nailed that element.
45:14
SPEAKER_02: And she points out that the people who hold these trainings and these anti-racist
45:20
SPEAKER_02: gurus exploit that very same instinct.
45:24
SPEAKER_02: So why don't more people stand up during the part of a DEI training where you're
45:27
SPEAKER_02: supposed to confess your past racist sins and say,
45:31
SPEAKER_02: this is fucking weird,
45:32
SPEAKER_02: dude.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm out.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, for one reason, if it's at work, maybe they could get penalized at work.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: But two,
45:39
SPEAKER_02: No one wants to stand out in a moment like that.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: So even if people are internally rolling their eyes,
45:45
SPEAKER_02: hardly anyone's going to express that in the moment and in public.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: And so that same instinct that keeps people from confronting the racist uncle at Thanksgiving,
45:55
SPEAKER_02: which,
45:55
SPEAKER_02: of course,
45:56
SPEAKER_02: that comes up in the movie.
45:57
SPEAKER_02: It's such a trope.
45:58
SPEAKER_02: It's not that people co-sign racism.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: It's that they hate conflict.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: And that scene with Robin DiAngelo just perfectly illustrates this.
46:07
SPEAKER_03: Did at least like Saira Rao saying at race to dinner, this country is a piece of shit.
46:13
SPEAKER_03: Also, it led me to look up her husband again, who I thought was at a hedge fund.
46:17
SPEAKER_03: And apparently the hedge fund has run into some sort of difficulty.
46:20
SPEAKER_03: And most of the website is now given over to some lawsuit they're involved in.
46:24
SPEAKER_03: So anyone who knows financial lingo that went completely over my head,
46:28
SPEAKER_03: go to goldenmountainfincorp.com and explain to us what's going on.
46:33
SPEAKER_03: Do you think enough milk has been squeezed out of the DEI udders?
46:38
SPEAKER_03: Do we need any more features or stories or documentaries about this stuff?
46:41
SPEAKER_03: Notwithstanding like individual blowups that are always very juicy and entertaining.
46:45
SPEAKER_02: I love these stories.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
46:47
SPEAKER_02: I would never want... This is why... But you didn't love the documentary.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: This is why wokeness needs to come back.
46:51
SPEAKER_02: This is why Trump needs to win.
46:53
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
46:53
SPEAKER_02: I did not like the documentary that much.
46:55
SPEAKER_02: I thought it was a little bit... Frankly, just like a little bit disappointing.
46:57
SPEAKER_02: I thought the trailer was good.
46:59
SPEAKER_02: It was a really good trailer.
47:01
SPEAKER_02: But the film itself, it was just kind of...
47:03
SPEAKER_02: A little stale, a little old, not a lot of new information there.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: And he didn't I don't know.
47:07
SPEAKER_02: I just didn't think that he revealed much.
47:09
SPEAKER_02: And then his whole fake earnest persona just doesn't really work for me.
47:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: There was one moment, though, when he so at the beginning of the film, he's in a he's in a DEI training.
47:19
SPEAKER_02: Of course, this is a voluntary thing.
47:21
SPEAKER_02: People have this is not like a work thing.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: People have paid money to go be berated for their whiteness.
47:27
SPEAKER_02: And at that point, this is before he adopted this silly wig and the skinny jeans.
47:33
SPEAKER_02: But he says that his name is Steven or Steve.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: So he says he's going under a different name, but it's obviously Matt Walsh.
47:39
SPEAKER_02: And he just answers their questions, like their introductory questions in these sort of bizarre manners.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: People very quickly figure out who he is.
47:46
SPEAKER_02: He goes and said he says, I need to step away to go into the cry room.
47:50
SPEAKER_02: They all get together and start looking at their phones.
47:53
SPEAKER_02: It's all on film because they have a film crew there and they all and they all
47:56
SPEAKER_02: signed waivers to be on camera.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: And then he comes back and they essentially kick him out.
48:01
SPEAKER_02: And what happened is that they didn't just kick him out.
48:05
SPEAKER_02: They actually called the cops on him.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: And that was crazy.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: And one of them says, like, we don't feel I don't feel safe in this in this environment.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: And that sounds like a dumb thing to say.
48:17
SPEAKER_02: And yet I don't like calling the cops is too much,
48:19
SPEAKER_02: but I don't entirely blame them because you've got a famous right wing provocateur
48:25
SPEAKER_02: with a film crew.
48:27
SPEAKER_02: You're going to go viral.
48:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:29
SPEAKER_03: I will say I strongly suspect that that was staged,
48:35
SPEAKER_03: that his producers somehow tipped them off while he was in the crying room.
48:41
SPEAKER_03: Because I think he wanted the scene at least of him getting kicked out.
48:44
SPEAKER_03: That's what I suspect.
48:45
SPEAKER_02: Will you ask Ben Shep about that when you send your next dick pic?
48:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
48:49
SPEAKER_03: Well, usually I send a dick pic with like a question or comment written on it, on the dick.
48:55
SPEAKER_03: So the whole horse thing started from one offhand joke.
48:58
SPEAKER_03: So I should be very, I should be careful about this sort of rhetoric.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: It's a free episode.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: No one will listen.
49:03
SPEAKER_03: Anything else on Matt Walsh, Katie?
49:05
SPEAKER_02: I think that's it.
49:06
SPEAKER_02: There was one scene where he goes to a biker bar somewhere in the South and these
49:10
SPEAKER_02: guys are,
49:11
SPEAKER_02: you know,
49:11
SPEAKER_02: it's this sort of nice moment where these bikers are saying like,
49:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm not racist.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't see skin.
49:16
SPEAKER_02: Everybody's the same underneath their skin or whatever.
49:18
SPEAKER_02: One of them saying it in front of a Confederate flag.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: I did sort of like that moment.
49:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing.
49:25
SPEAKER_02: It's just like it's cherry picking.
49:27
SPEAKER_02: You know,
49:28
SPEAKER_02: he he found these people on the street and he went to this biker bar where people
49:32
SPEAKER_02: said what you sort of want to hear in a colorblind society.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: But it would be just as easy to find a bunch of white people saying horrifically racist things.
49:40
SPEAKER_02: Just open Twitter.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: I actually.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
49:42
SPEAKER_03: But I do think that the normie view,
49:45
SPEAKER_03: the MLK view,
49:46
SPEAKER_03: has been so socialized in people actually across the political spectrum that even
49:51
SPEAKER_03: conservatives with racial resentment,
49:53
SPEAKER_03: if you ask them about race,
49:55
SPEAKER_03: they'll be like,
49:55
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
49:55
SPEAKER_03: we're all the same on the inside.
49:57
SPEAKER_03: And then it's a little more coded or specific.
49:59
SPEAKER_03: So it's not hard to find people who will say that on camera.
50:01
SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good thing, though.
50:03
SPEAKER_02: People should say that.
50:04
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I mean, wait, you're saying people should be racist?
50:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:08
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm saying that people should say we're all the same and skin color doesn't matter.
50:11
SPEAKER_03: We are all the same, except for Camille, who is racist, raceless and racist.
50:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh, there was one more thing.
50:19
SPEAKER_02: Wilfred Riley, a familiar face popped up.
50:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:23
SPEAKER_03: He was in that.
50:23
SPEAKER_02: So he's an academic.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: I think he's in Kentucky.
50:26
SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
50:27
SPEAKER_03: That sounds right, yeah.
50:29
SPEAKER_02: And he's a black man and he has written a lot about hate crime hoaxes.
50:34
SPEAKER_02: And at that point in the film,
50:35
SPEAKER_02: Matt is still playing this liberal Matt character with the wig and the skinny jeans.
50:40
SPEAKER_02: And I asked Wilfred if...
50:43
SPEAKER_02: did he pretend to be a real DEI trainer with you?
50:46
SPEAKER_02: And he said that he didn't when they were filming.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: But at the beginning of the first call,
50:50
SPEAKER_02: apparently,
50:51
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if Walsh himself,
50:52
SPEAKER_02: but whoever first contacted him did pretend that it was going to be this legitimate
50:56
SPEAKER_02: anti-racism film.
50:57
SPEAKER_02: But he said he clearly knew it was Matt Walsh in a wig.
51:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: Would be weird if he didn't.
51:03
SPEAKER_03: Anything else, Katie?
51:05
SPEAKER_02: No.
51:05
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much to Ben Shapiro for the $16 value.
51:10
SPEAKER_03: $16 times two.
51:11
SPEAKER_03: That's $32.
51:11
SPEAKER_03: That's true.
51:12
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
51:13
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening.
51:14
SPEAKER_03: This has been Blocked Reported.
51:16
SPEAKER_03: As always, we're produced with help from Jessica the 80s Baby.
51:19
SPEAKER_03: I'm Jesse Singel.
51:21
SPEAKER_03: And remember, Matt Walsh in a wig sounds like a truly terrible sex act you would do in a child playroom.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: And I'm Katie Herzog.
51:29
SPEAKER_02: And also remember, please place a barrier between your genitals and any surfaces.
51:38
Thank you.