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HEAR IT: 911 Operator Berates Drowining Woman · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As Deborah Stevens suv filled
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: with water, she made a frantic call to nine one
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: one away after my windows, but her desperation didn't seem
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to make any difference to the dispatcher on the other
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: end of the call. I'm sorry. The Fort Smith, Arkansas
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: woman was delivering newspapers when she told dispatcher Donna re
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: No she was swept away in flash flood waters. She
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: couldn't swim. I'm scared. I've never had anything before. You'll
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: teach you next time. Don't drive in the water. Wouldn't
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: see it? I'm sorrier. I wouldn't. I don't see how
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: you didn't see it. You had to go right over it.
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  Speaker 1: What an evil woman? Did you hear? The woman who,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: by the way, drowned in her car and as she's
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  Speaker 1: drowning in the water is filling up her suv. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: think about it. I've had to get up super early
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: in the morning to get to work. I mean, you know,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Jason Oceans Newort defense lawyer was with me. I would
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: have to get up at about four am in the
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: morning to be at court TV at seven. Bright eye
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: and bushey tails and full of hair and makeup to
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: hit the airwaves for a morning shift. And you were
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: there with me many times, Jason Oceans. It ain't easy.
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  Speaker 1: This woman getting up to deliver papers in the dark
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  Speaker 1: morning hours accidentally drives into water. Her car is filling up,
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  Speaker 1: and the nine one operator is so rude and brates her.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: The woman who's blubbering and crying says, I'm sorry. I mean,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: see Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you for being
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: with us. I think the night one one operator I'd
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to go to jail myself, but I want you to
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: hear it from the horse's mouth. Take a listen to
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: the nine one one operator Donna Renaut, who's listening and
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: berating Deborah Stevens as she drowns dead. One where your virgency.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I don't want the emergency as the various emergency. I'm
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  Speaker 1: in a flooding. My car bart off the road while
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: during my newspapers and I'm floating over here on the
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: end of King Kid and it's all a bad through
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  Speaker 1: my windows and I can't get out, and I'm scared
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  Speaker 1: to death. Ma'am, hey, can you please help me? What
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: do you? I need you to calm down. I need
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  Speaker 1: to tell me where you are? I want me. I
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  Speaker 1: don't know, ma'am. I want to end of kN K
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: down here body the department. This is an apartments from
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  Speaker 1: King Dad. I don't know what They're all on the
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  Speaker 1: other side of kN K. That's the very end of
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  Speaker 1: ten K Street. There's an apartments. And I thought a
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  Speaker 1: dark blue car is what I'm asking you? What color
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  Speaker 1: is your vehicle? Here? Dark? It's gray v laning. The
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  Speaker 1: water dog went in my window. Okay, hold on for me,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: don't hang up. And it's coming in my windows. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I'm pulling in water right now, mandam. Yes, ma'am. I
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  Speaker 1: need help right now. I'm I'm, I'm I'm soaking wet
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  Speaker 1: it I'm sick and I can't. I want to what
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  Speaker 1: to do, ma'am? Okay, what's your name? Nebbe Steve? Squeezing hell? Man,
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  Speaker 1: I don't want to die. They're not gonna die. Hold
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  Speaker 1: on from well. I need I'm stand. I'm sorry. I
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  Speaker 1: didn't know the water. I couldn't give me the water
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  Speaker 1: when I came upon it. Man, it just all of
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a sudden, he hit me. Oh, and that is just
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. To leave my page Crime
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  Speaker 1: Online dot com investigative reporter with me, doctor Robbie Ludwig,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: you see are all over the TV screens, psychologist and
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Facebook live show host from Times Square, the medical examiner
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: for the State of Florida, Doctor Tim Gallagher, FBI special agent,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: former Jeff Cortesi, renowned defense attorney Jay send Oceans what
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a big mass, doctor Tim Gallagher, let's just kick it
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  Speaker 1: off with you. How long does it take an adult
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  Speaker 1: to drown? Well, that's a very good question, Nancy. It
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  Speaker 1: really really varies depending on their health and if they
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  Speaker 1: have any problems with their lungs or any other diseases.
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  Speaker 1: But I would say, on the average, we know that
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  Speaker 1: irreversible brain damage occurs after three minutes of not being
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  Speaker 1: able to breathe, So for someone to enter into the
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  Speaker 1: water and be declared dead would probably take a little
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  Speaker 1: over three minutes. And this took a period of time,
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  Speaker 1: did it not? To Leavipage Crime Online dot com investigative reporter,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: as I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: which I know you love to do, Levi page and
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  Speaker 1: I give you plenty of opportunity. LEVI, didn't this call
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  Speaker 1: take twenty four minutes before the dispatcher could get EMTs there. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: she was on the phone for twenty four minutes with
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the dispatcher. M awful, awful. Jason notions a defense attorney.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: She may need a defense attorney because, as far as
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  Speaker 1: I'm concerned, the way she treated this dying drowning victim,
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  Speaker 1: a woman who's out trying to make a few extra
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: dollars delivering papers in the dark morning hours, I think
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  Speaker 1: she ought to go to jail myself. Jason, USh, just
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: what stopping it. That's a much higher standard. You would
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  Speaker 1: have to associate with her directly with its heat, and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: according to the transcripts dispatched right away, no one would
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: take away from her callousness and the fact that Miss
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  Speaker 1: Stevens lost her life. It certainly exemplifies the lack of
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  Speaker 1: humanity that this dispatcher had on her last day of work,
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  Speaker 1: last dispatch. I don't know that it necessarily rises to
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  Speaker 1: a level of criminality. Certainly a civil lawsuit against the
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  Speaker 1: city as possible. You know what, why why are you
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: talking like that? Yeah, Jason, you know that I love you.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: I love your beautiful wife who used to I think
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  Speaker 1: booked me on MSNBC. I love your two children. But Jason,
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  Speaker 1: you sound like one of those no offense Jason obnoxious
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  Speaker 1: lawyers used to be trapped with him on the elevator,
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  Speaker 1: and I just love the way they would talk and
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah and throwing a few Latin phrases, just
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: blah blah. Cut it, cut dummy down for me. Well,
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  Speaker 1: it's got a rise to a certain level of you know,
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  Speaker 1: intent or or in lacking intent, something so egregious like
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  Speaker 1: a criminally next, I'm twenty four minutes. That's how long
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  Speaker 1: she was on the phone. But I've got twenty four
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  Speaker 1: minutes when five they had a hard time binding her. Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: I was a bad born exactly locat herself. Well, for
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: what I understood when the MTS got there, they can
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  Speaker 1: still see your dome lights in the car, says, a
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  Speaker 1: pretty good indicator of where she was. And the car
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: would have been above the water when they saw the
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  Speaker 1: dome lights or Robbie Ludwig psychologists, Why are people so
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: afraid of death by drowning? Well, death by drowning is
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  Speaker 1: very painful. I mean to not be able to breathe,
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  Speaker 1: to have that moment, to know that your life is
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  Speaker 1: slipping away from you, is absolutely panic inducing. And it's
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  Speaker 1: one of the things we hear all the time that
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  Speaker 1: drowning is a silent death. So not only are we
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  Speaker 1: afraid of it for ourselves, but we are afraid of
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  Speaker 1: it on behalf of other people. Instinctually. I think, what
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  Speaker 1: your last word really to me? Hit the nail on
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  Speaker 1: the head, instinctually, because we are not meant to be,
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  Speaker 1: you know, by our nature underwater, where people don't have
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  Speaker 1: that same fear of falling off the top of the
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  Speaker 1: house or a car crash. There's something about death by
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  Speaker 1: drowning that it just volks and instinctive fear. I want
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: you to listen to more of the nine one one call.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: No money me, am, I not on the I'm sorry,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: king out crime stories with Nancy Grace. No money me am,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I not on the phone with you trying to get
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  Speaker 1: you some help. Yeah, I'm sorry king out. It's okay.
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  Speaker 1: I know the water level am high. I understand that,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: but you free out do happen? But loving your oxygen
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  Speaker 1: up in there? But ann get me, you said, I'm sorry.
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  Speaker 1: Where are they gonna be here as soon as they
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  Speaker 1: get there? Or that wouldn't be even very dying? I
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  Speaker 1: know man, We're phone's gonna die and I'm not gonna
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  Speaker 1: find men brand new final Do you really care about
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: your brand new phone? I mean you're there crying for
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: your life. Who cares about your phone? I mean it's
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: right now. Well, then you're in water. You can throw up.
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  Speaker 1: It's not gonna matter. If you got to throw up
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: on yourself, they will help you. Oh my card, it's
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: gonna get them fire. How if it's underwater? What an
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  Speaker 1: evil woman? That is? EMT dispatched Donna Renault talking to
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  Speaker 1: Deborah Stevens out trying to deliver papers in the dark
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  Speaker 1: early morning hours. They're at Fort Smith, Arkansas. She drowned.
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  Speaker 1: She drowned, begging for help, but she was unable to
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  Speaker 1: get out of her car. To Jeff Cortesi, former FBI
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: special agent, how are you supposed to get out of
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  Speaker 1: your car if it goes underwater? You know there are
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: classes you can take to become proficient at getting out
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: of your car while underwater. But you know, if you
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: just mentally prepare and go through a checklist, you can
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: actually anybody can actually do it under the right circumstances.
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  Speaker 1: So you know, the first thing you want to do
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  Speaker 1: is open your window as quickly as you can, keeping
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  Speaker 1: your seat belt on while the car is filling up,
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  Speaker 1: so the seat belt will serve kind of as an anchor,
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  Speaker 1: holding you in place. As the water begins to fill
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  Speaker 1: up the car, You're not gonna be able to open
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  Speaker 1: up the door while the water is flooding in. There's
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  Speaker 1: gonna be too much pressure on the outside, So the
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  Speaker 1: vehicle actually has to fill up with water before you're
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  Speaker 1: gonna be able to open up that door so that
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  Speaker 1: the pressure can be equalized on each side. Prior to
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  Speaker 1: I guess the water reaching probably your chin level, you
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  Speaker 1: want to start either cutting away or unbuck clicking your seatbelt.
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  Speaker 1: Holding onto the steering wheel is kind of a leverage
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  Speaker 1: to force yourself out of the car. But once that
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  Speaker 1: water equalizes inside the car, you know, you hold your breath,
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  Speaker 1: get that car door open, or go through the window
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: after the car is full, and that deep breath that
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  Speaker 1: you take is going to basically serve as a kind
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: of a balloon that'll pull your body to the top
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: of the water. You know, he's absolutely right, Jeff Cortiz.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: He's very, very difficult to do. But the first thing
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to do if you can is open the
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: window as quickly as possible before you hit the water,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: if you can, or immediately after. Stay completely still until
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  Speaker 1: the water and the car goes up to your chin.
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  Speaker 1: Take several slow breaths, hold one. Don't try to open
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  Speaker 1: the door until the water has stopped flooding, because there's
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  Speaker 1: about six hundred pounds of pressure or per square inch,
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  Speaker 1: meaning you can't get it open from the inside. So
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: long story short, that pressure should equalize and then you
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: try to get out. Now, we always carry something in
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  Speaker 1: our cars under the seat that we can smash out
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: a window. Now here's the thing about that. The water's
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: gonna flood in, So once you smash out the window,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: you're gonna be fighting like water coming in like from
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: a fire hydrant. It's gonna be very hard. But we
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: keep something inside our car. It can be a hammer,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: it can be anything like that to smash out the
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  Speaker 1: window to get out, just in case we get in water.
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  Speaker 1: The issue here is not how she could have gotten
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: out of the water. The issue here is a rude,
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  Speaker 1: cruel despatch officer Donna Renault, the nine one one operator
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  Speaker 1: callously lecturing a drowning woman telling her to quote shut
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  Speaker 1: up before she died. Oh, listen, between both apartment complexes
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  Speaker 1: on this street, at the dead end, in the very
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  Speaker 1: backsideree right there, Jay, don't want at the end the
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  Speaker 1: backside of these apartments over here were these people out.
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  Speaker 1: They can all see there. You're gonna have to shut up. Okay, okay,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: um Hello, did you hear that, doctor, Robbie Ludwig, You're
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: gonna have to shut up? Did you hear that? We
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: don't even say the S word in our home. This
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  Speaker 1: is so painful to hear because the degree of callousness
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  Speaker 1: that this dispatcher is showing is just unimaginable. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it's very easy to identify with this poor victim who
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  Speaker 1: truly is about to die and there is zero empathy,
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  Speaker 1: and to hear that being played out in a truly
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: tragic situation is just so terrific. It really is. And
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: it's hard to know whether part of it has to
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: do with this woman, this dispatcher being unwilling to acknowledge
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: the vulnerability that she has in terms of the situation
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and trying to save this woman, or just she is
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: so burned out that she has no feeling at all
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: that she is completely desensitized to other people's pain, which
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: at that point you really need to get yourself out
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: of that kind of job. Yeah, I agree with you
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: three hundred percent on getting out of the job. I
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: want to go to doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: for the State of Florida. Doctor Gallagher, what happens to
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: a person when they are drowning and we know she's
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: not struggling because she's sitting there with her seat belt on. Oh,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: there's a long series of things that happen once the
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: lungs start filling up with water. So not only do
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the lungs fill up with water, but people tend to
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: swallow the water too in their panic while they're drowning. Eventually,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: the lungs will stop feeding oxygen to the brain and
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the brain will go into irreversible type damage and the
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: body will start to seize. So the body will probably
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: start to seize for about fifteen or thirty seconds afterwards,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: and at that point CPR would be just useful in
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: probably bringing them at support after that, So, after about
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: three or four minutes underwater, the brain will have irreversible
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: brain damage, the body will start to seize, and chances
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: of a full and meaningful recovery are certainly decreased. Okay,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: could you explain what you're saying in regular people talk,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: chances for a meaningful recovery, what does that mean? Well,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: for them to go back to their normal life. For
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: her to go back to driving a car and delivering
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: papers is very, very, very unlikely. She would probably suffer
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: long term events, a long term effects of the near drowning.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: She would have permanent brain damage. She may be reliant
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: on a breathing machine or life saving equipment just to
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: keep her alive. Oh man, oh man, you know Jason Otions,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: federal defense attorney, trial lawyer in the Tri State area
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: joining me out of New York. Jason Otions, you're telling
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: me this NIMA one operator cannot be prosecuted criminally, but
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I think she can be prosecuted civilly or not prosecuted
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: but have a civil suit against her for intentional infliction
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: of emotional distress. Now I know the victim is passed away.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: She's dead. The nine one one operator listened as she drowned.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: We're not playing that part of the nine on one
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: call today, so I know that she's not alive to
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: get any benefits, any monetary benefits. But not only could
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the nine on one operator Donner a Nobis suit, so
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: could the police department, UM, the local municipality, the state.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I don't even know who all could be sued. My
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: concern is that she's dead. There would not be any
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: monetary benefit to her, maybe to her family because now
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: they're hearing this and they're being emotionally tortured. What about that,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Jason Oceans, Well, Nancy, you're you're, you're, you're spun on
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: for a for a former prosecutor. Certainly on the civil
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: side of it, it would be a wrongful deaf action. Uh.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: The estates certainly could benefit that for that. Uh. I
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: don't know she had family directly, but certainly any of
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: her errors or someone who stepped up to the administrator,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: they would they would certainly benefit. Uh. You know, question
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: of qualified immunity to the U, to the municipality. But
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: you would sue, You would sue them all. You'd name
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the dispatcher, the police department, as you said, the state. Uh.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And doctor Robbie Ludwood brings up a great point. If
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: she was so burnt out that she was so callous
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: at this point and we hear the callousness, and it's chilling.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: You know at that point, who who was there to
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: step in? She was already retiring or being let go,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: whatever the underlying circumstances are, and that's critical too to
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: see if she was allowed to retire and this was
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: her last shift or she was just being let go
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: based on evaluation and she was burnt out. So there's
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: some really good critical questions in terms of a civil suit,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: and Discovery would flesh that out. But my my, my lord,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: this is just it's just difficult, very difficult to listen
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to knowing the end result. It's just it tears your
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: heart up. And I bet a jury would agree with you. Yeah,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I'd like to be on the Plantiff side on this case.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy grace Man. It's getting on last
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: in my chest, and I know the water their chests
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to stay on this song with me. And I have
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: an officer, I have an officer in the fire department
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: coming out to you said just hold on, thank you.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry from Mars and I'm scared. I'm here and
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I know you're scared. Just calm down the corner. I'm
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: just scared. I've never had anything like this. Happen before.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: This will take you. I will teach you next time.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Don't drive in the water. I couldn't see it, making
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I don't see how you didn't see it.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: You had to go right over it. So no, maam,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I'm only get a drunk. I was in the parking lots.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: There was no water where I was at, okay, But
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: when I got to the end of the parking and
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I was looking for the road to get out into
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the main road. When I got to the main road,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: it was too late. There was water lighting. I couldn't
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: see it enough. The water just didn't appear. A callous
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: nine one one dispatcher lecturers a drowning woman, telling her
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: to shut up and asking do you care that much
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: about your cell phone? And the water just didn't appear,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: really belittling her, rebuking her as she died. It's overwhelming
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: to me. Deborah Stevens drowned as she drove into floodwaters
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: and Fort Smith, Arkansas, out in the early morning hours
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and the dark, delivering newspapers trying to make ends meet.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: She calls ninety one one, begging for help, but she
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: couldn't get out of her car Donna Renault, who has
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: since resigned as a Fort Smith Police Department dispatcher unfortunately,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: was the one to answer her call at for thirty
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: eight a m. We have managed to get ahold of
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: that audio. We're not playing the portion of it where
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: miss Stevens dies. She drowns, of course. Now police are
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: saying they are investigating its policies into responses and the
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: dispatch center, but Stevens is dead. Now. Amazing to me
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: that this woman claims she truly cares about her job
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and about people, because it sure doesn't sound like it.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: And another issue, did you hear this LEVI page with
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: me Crime online dot com investigative reporter. The victim, Deborah Stevens,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: out delivering newspaper says, all these people are standing around
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: watching her drown. What are they doing? They're in an
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: apartment complex. And then she says that they're on their
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: balcony watching her, and she said she thought it was rude.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: But the dispatcher donser, like you have again belittling her
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: and Nancy, you know, you're talking about how you think
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: there could be criminal charges. But the Fort Smith Police Chief,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Danny Baker, has made comments and said that this didn't
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: even rise to the level of firing her, he says,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: quote the manner that she spoke during this conversation would
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: have probably been addressed, but would have been more of
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: a rudeness quality type service complaint. I don't think it
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: would have risen to the level of terminating, Oh please,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: are you kidding me? A service complaint? Leavi Page. I
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: can't believe even said that that. You even quoted that
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: to me? Oh yeah, he said it, not me. You
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: know what this reminds me of. This reminds me of
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the notorious case the rape and stabbing of a twenty
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: eight year old woman. And I learned about her in
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: law school. Her name Kitty Genovic, stabbed multiple times in
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the apartment building across the street where she lived, Okay,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: in Q Gardens. I remember the New York Times publishing
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: an article about it. Thirty eight witnesses saw or heard
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the attack. Not one of them came to her, aid
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: or called police. Now, the horrific attack on her became
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: known as a quote bystand or effect or that Genevic
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: syndrome named after Kitty Genavic. Now let me ask you this, Dotor,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Robbie Ludwig, why were all these people standing around doing nothing.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, they could have at least tried, even if
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: they were not successfully. I need a shrink. It really
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: is hard to imagine. I mean, I suppose one there
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: is the bystander effect where people don't want to get
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: involved and put themselves in harm's way, or for some
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: reason they were just frozen by their own panic and
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: fear that if they were to get involved it would
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: not have helped and then they would have been in danger.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: But it is just really painful. And on top of this,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: this woman who was drowning was so kind. It should
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: have been the opposite way where the dispatcher was kind,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: but this woman who was drowning was so kind. I
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: mean to say that these people watching her were rude,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: it's really something more than that. So here we have
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: somebody who truly is an innocent and people are not
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: getting involved the way they should, and it's you know,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: to hear this, it is trauma inducing for anyone listening
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: to this. And you make an amazing point that this
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: poor family has to hear their beloved daughter or wife
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: or you know, whatever she whatever role she was in
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: the family, just having these painful final moments and not
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: being treated well. Now I'm being told that the people
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: in the apartment complex could not reach her because of
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the water. I find that really hard to believe. Also,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: nobody even tried to reach her. Take a listen to this.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: At five AMS, the nine one one call is disconnected
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: and rescuers aren't now in the water. Tonight, the four
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: sminth Police interim chief is speaking out about the dispatcher's call,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: saying he listened to it and that it is less
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: than desirable. Now, we'll say the manner that she spoke
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: during this conversation would probably have been addressed, but it
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: would have been more of a rudeness, quality of service
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: type complaint of However, nothing will come of it. The
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: chief sins the dispatcher put in her two weeks notice
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: before this, and that call came on her last day
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and final shift. Can't investigate someone who no longer works here. However,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: an investigation into our policies, our responses, our dispatch center.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I've been in communication with the fire chief. We're looking
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: at what we can do to maybe increase training. Blah
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. That's a CBS reporter speaking with
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: interim chief Danny Baker, why can't they investigate her and
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: her behavior? And you know what, as I always say
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: to Jeff Cortez, a former FBI special agent, she didn't
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: go from zero to ninety mph overnight. I guarantee you
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: she has a history of this. The nine one dispatcher.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: You know, without having firsthand knowledge, I hesitate to say
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: one way or the other. But at the same time,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: you know, you're probably right. You know this stuff doesn't
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: typically come out of nowhere. You know what, Then let
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: me go with Jason Oshan's You've seen enough criminal cases.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: One thing I have argued to a jury many many times,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: when you don't know a horse, look at his track record.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: If you don't know what he's gonna do, look and
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: see what he's already done, and then you'll know. Because
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: history has a way of repeating itself, it has takes
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: a huge herculating effort for a human to change their behavior,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: to change their pattern, their mode, their course of conduct.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: It's very difficult to do. That's why it's so hard
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: for people to kick booze or drugs. Not only is
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: it physically addictive, psychologically addictive, it's hard to change your
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: routines and patterns. I guarantee you that if you look
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: into her history, this is not the first time that
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: she's most likely been rude to a person calling nine
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: one one. She didn't just get burnt out, she didn't
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: just anything. This was probably, as you say, a process
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: and there you're right there. I'm sure there were other
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: there other incidents leading leading up to this, her callousness,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: her lack of care and concern, even just in Calming,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: miss Stevens not with standing anything, or you know where
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: where is more description, Perhaps because there was a delay
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: in getting response of what her surroundings were, what her
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: route was to retrace it. There were just so many
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: more things that could have been done, notwithstanding her desire
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: to chastise brate uh and make it more uncomfortable than
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: it actually had to be. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I need to call my mother, you know, Okay, Well
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: you're not okay, so you can call your mother in
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: law when you're actually out of the vehicle. So no,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: you cannot call her, right, Okay, I'm sorry. Didn't you
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: pray bray with me? Hello, I'm here, I can still
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: hear everything, and you're saying to me, I have. Will
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: you pray with me? Do you hear that the woman
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: is dying and she's begging the normal one dispatch to
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: pray with her, and you hear the dispatch when and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: go and try to ignore her. Please, let's hear that
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: again from the top, Jackie and I I need to
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: call my mother and you know the most day. Okay,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Well you're not okay, so you can call your mother
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: in law when you're actually I'm sorry, Can you pray?
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: You pray with me? He me, Hello, I'm here. I
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: can still hear everything you're saying to me. I have
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Will you pray with me? You go ahead and start
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: off the prayer and I'll listen to you. I sure
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: will tell me give me the father one of it
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: that hasn't tell me? Please at me my vehicles. Yeah,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: but it's better that your vehicle was ruined than you
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: being splipped away and nobody knows where you are. So
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: just because famili not, you have nowhere to be slipt
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: away too, besides the street that you're on, So just
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: calm down. Okay. Well I'm at the end of the street.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: But man, right now, I'm looking at it right now,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: and at the end of the street of some bushes,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: so you'll be defined. The callous nature that this dispatch
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: operator display toward a dying woman cannot be ignored. To
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Leavi page climb online dot Com investigative reporter, explain to
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: me what is being done other than them claiming they're
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: doing in another investigation, that's all that's being done. The
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: police chief said that her conduct, if she was still employed,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: wouldn't even rise to the level of a termination. So
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: if she did not put in her two weeks notice,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: she would still have a job working there. According to
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the police, what do we know about the victim, Levi,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: She's a forty seven year old woman. She was delivered
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: ring newspapers. She was very active in her church. She
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: loved to help the elderly, and her family says that
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: she had a heart of gold and would do anything
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: for anyone. And unfortunately this nine one one dispatcher didn't
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: seem to have the same attitude or heart that she did.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Take a listen as dispatch op writer daher may No
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: yells at the dying victim, hold on, hold on, and
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: it's oh, they're trying to cry to you. The whole
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: parking lot is flitter they're trying to find you, okay,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: so hold on for me. I'm at the very back
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: of them, at the very back on into that road
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: in fifty eight three. That's look free in. I didn't
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: do it, no, ma'am. Oh my god, oh man, man,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: please okay, listen to me. I know I'm trying to
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: get you as help as I can. Okay, just hold
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: on for okay, man, please, I know the I know.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Hold on for me because I got to take other calls.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Plush you and okay, okay, okay, your lord breeze is
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: get me out. Dear Lord, do find me. Dear Lord, Please,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I've got to take other calls. It's not all about you.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: What did I just hear that, doctor Robbie Ludwig, Doctor
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Robbie Ludwig joining me from her Facebook life program at
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Times Square. Doctor Robbie did you? What does she think?
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: She's a customer service operator at QVC. I've got other
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: calls beside you. The woman is dying. All of her
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: newspapers are floating around her face. The water is coming
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: up to her chin. She's begging for help. The EMTs
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: get there, they see her domb light, but they don't
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: get there. Fast enough. The woman is begging and pleading,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: and Donna Reynaud says, I've got other calls other than you.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: We clearly hear that the dispatcher is blaming the victim.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: She's blaming the victim for being in this situation. Therefore,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: she has zero empathy towards her her. In fact, she
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: has disdained She doesn't really believe her, So there's zero connection.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: There's only anger and rage towards this woman who is
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: being so kind and lovely in her final moments, even
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: in this woman's state of panic, she is being lovely
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and apologetic to this dispatcher who is devaluing her, who
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: is blaming her for dying, and really has seems like
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: no care at all about her, and communicates that, and
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: that is what is so damaging here. Imagine being in
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: that situation and sensing that the other person either doesn't
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: believe you or is not understanding the severity of your situation.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: That in itself is trauma inducing. Some of the statements.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Donna Renault, an offwriter, says, quote, you're not going to die.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know why you're freaking out. I know the
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: water level is high, but freaking out is doing nothing,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: you hear the victim of repeatedly apologizing to the dispatcher.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: The dispatcher responds, this will teach you next time not
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to drive in the water. I don't know how you
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: didn't see it. You had to go right over it.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: The water just didn't appear, she goes. She goes on
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: to say, you're not the only one who's been stuck
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: in the water, so calm down. As the woman, Deborah Stevens,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: continues to beg for help, Donna re No callously says,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: am I not on the phone with you trying to
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: get you some help. At one point, the victim even
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: apologizes for being rude to the dispatcher because she keeps
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: begging for help. She says she's about to vomit, and
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: the dispatcher hits back, saying, well, you're in the water.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: You can throw up. It's not gonna matter. When she
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: begs for dispatch to pray with her, Donnara No goes,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: you go ahead. I'll listen her dying request. It's almost
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: more and I can take in not only has she suffered,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: but now her family is suffering hearing this. I'm looking
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: at a picture right now. Deborah Stevens out trying to
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: make extra money delivering newspapers in the dark morning hours,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: holding a little dog. Looks like a little Maltese looking dog,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: you know. To doctor Tim Gallagher, I know your lungs
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: began to fill up with water. What does that feel like?
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Do you black out? Do you know what's happening? Well,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I think I have a little personal experience to add
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: to this, as someone who almost drowned himself. You know,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I do recall the panic, you know, And I do
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: recall my eyes wide open and just swallowing water and
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: breathing it in, and you know, I do remember almost
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: passing out, you know, and it's almost a surreal peace
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: sort of came over me. And there I didn't really
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: feel any pain, so to speak, you know, just sort
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: of I just kind of was relenting for the experience
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: to happen. And then fortunately in my case, somebody did
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: come by and rescue me from the water. So each
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: case is individualized, and that was my experience, and I
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: hope for the sake of the victim here that she
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: did go in a peaceful way and not of the
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: way that it appeared on with her interaction with the
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: nine one operator well, I mean, dodger, Tim Gallagher, I
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: appreciate your sentiment, but we heard the way she went.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: She went crying, hysterical, pleading for help, apologizing for begging
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: for help. I too had that experience at age twelve,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: almost drowned in a lake, and I remember breathing in,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: gulping in water, and fighting the water and miraculously, I remember,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: like it was yesterday, it felt like a hand, a
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: big hand came up from under and I prayed it
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: just like Deborah Stevens was praying as I was fighting
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: the water as a little girl, and it felt like
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: a big hand reached up under my back and pull
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: me to the top of the water. And I immediately
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: got calm and started floating, and my best little girlfriend
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Joy somehow made it to me and pull me out
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: of the water. And I remember being on the beach
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: on my stomach and water just pouring out of my
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: nose and mouth. It was a terrifying experience. Right now,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: our prayers with the family of Deborah Stevens, and good
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: luck with that internal investigation. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,