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Greg Siddle - Part 1 · Rusty's Garage

0:02
A listener production.
0:11
I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
0:27
I recorded this episode in Sydney while visiting legendary driver manager Greg Siddle.
0:32
These intros I did days later, fittingly, at a racetrack, hence the background noise.
0:38
Now, if you've never heard of Peewee, that's what everyone in the industry calls him,
0:43
He would probably have a wry smile at that and enjoy the sense of anonymity.
0:48
But Greg takes calls from big names in the game, and they take his.
0:53
Eddie Jordan, Bernie Eccleston.
0:55
He worked with Nelson Piquet, who would go on to win three Formula One World Championships, and he's close to Nelson to this day.
1:03
The energetic and gifted racer Roberto Moreno is another that he's guided through the often difficult game of doing deals for drives.
1:12
Roberto is a former F3000 champion, a winner in Champ Car and he won the Australian Grand Prix three times in the early 1980s.
1:22
Pee-wee's associations with people like Larry Perkins in the early years when LP was doing it tough trekking around Europe
1:33
Ron Turanac.
1:34
You'll enjoy those conversations too.
1:36
Closer to home, Pee Wee has mentored and guided Mark Larkham and Sam Michael.
1:41
You can find both of them in our Rusty's Garage library.
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They are very popular episodes too.
1:46
He helped bring Rubens Barrichello out for some S5000 races in recent years.
1:51
What a drawcard the former Ferrari driver was for the Aussie-based V8 Open Wheel Series.
1:57
And he was right behind the Van Diemen Formula Ford program and its
2:01
formal introduction to Australia and much, much more.
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The thing about Pee Wee is he listens, invariably turns or steers the conversation back to you rather than talking up his own stocks.
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He's had long associations with manufacturers too.
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Another reflection of the calibre of person he is.
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His reliability, attention to detail and his loyalty.
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We sat in the lounge at his home and just talked.
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He's different to some of the other wheeler-dealer style managers in our game.
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He acutely knows what things in our sport and the good players are worth.
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And he keeps a close eye on the junior formula to this day and who the emerging stars are right around the world.
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I'm proud that he's come on.
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Larco and Sam Michael helped get Pee Wee over the line on this idea and he's told me it's likely to be a one-off.
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I hope that's not the case because there's a lot more stories in his collection of yarns that are still tucked away.
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Now, we need to be okay with one fact.
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He doesn't go too deep on some things, and that's because he's not the kind to betray confidentialities even decades later.
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That is just not his way.
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But there are some very cool names and yarns that you'll hear about in this one and some takeaways for aspiring young drivers and team owners too.
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Enjoy the convo.
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You sounded a bit reluctant about coming on here because I think you prefer to be in the background more than telling your story.
3:34
But the more I have researched this, the more I've discovered some incredible connections you have, the depth of your experience in this.
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in this sport, and I feel like it's a story worth telling.
3:47
So can we begin, if you're okay with it, with early life, what you might want to share?
3:53
I know Canberra is there, and you left school or left home at a relatively young age compared to most, I think, didn't you?
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Yes.
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At the time, that was unfortunate, but on my life's journey, it was probably a blessing.
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Was it?
4:08
What did it teach you then in that sense?
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Survival.
4:12
Survival.
4:13
Yeah?
4:14
Very quickly.
4:15
Where did it take you to?
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You would end up in Darwin, I know, or in the top end, I think.
4:19
Was that the first sort of step or what were you doing immediately when you left school?
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I did an apprenticeship as a mechanic and then some friends of mine, or one friend in particular who is still a friend to this day, had gone to Darwin.
4:32
And so there was plenty of work opportunities in those days.
4:35
So we're talking early 70s.
4:38
Around sort of mining or something?
4:40
Or what were you in?
4:40
Well, I went there as a mechanic.
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And then, you know, there were plentiful of jobs there.
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And we knew the girl who ran the sort of employment agency, which was a government institution.
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We knew her socially.
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And she kept saying, look, why don't you come in?
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We've got some interesting jobs available.
4:57
So a friend of mine, we went in and she basically said, well, where do you want to work?
5:02
Two mile in town, 20 mile out of town or 200 mile out of town.
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And my friend said, well, let's take the 200 mile.
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So off we went.
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And anyway, as it turned out, the 200 mile out of town was a mining facility.
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It was Queensland Mines.
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They were drilling for uranium in Nabilak.
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You're what age here?
5:23
19.
5:24
Amazing.
5:25
Yeah, 19.
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So out I went.
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And it was pretty basic.
5:31
There were certainly no safety issues or safety things out there at the time.
5:36
Mm-hmm.
5:37
But I learned what to do in drilling.
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So we're drilling and so you're an offside.
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Well, I was driving a water truck, which I loathed because you're on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
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My friend who was offside on a rig, he didn't like that.
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So we swapped.
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So I offside on a rig and I was there for four months, I think.
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And then I ended up getting promoted to have my own rig and I was called a.
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a gun driller at the time.
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But, um, so I learned a lot by that, by showing initiative and using an house and whatever.
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And I sort of took that with me on my, on my travel.
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So then I made all this money, a bit like people are doing today.
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And off I went on my sojourn to be a racing driver.
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Now tell me about that, because I want to understand where the passion, the love of perhaps cars or racing came from.
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What are your earliest racing recollections or memories?
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Well, I think the passion started in building my billy carts.
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Did it?
6:29
As a kid?
6:30
As a kid.
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So, you know, it was pretty old culture.
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You'd get wheels off a pram or something.
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And then we had a neighbor who was a mechanic and he was always throwing his ball bearings out.
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So then you made billy carts with ball bearings, which set you lower to the ground and gave you more speed.
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So probably that.
6:45
And then I raced in Canberra and Tralee Speedway and Mount Gin at the time.
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So that's, and then Jack was, so this is mid-60s, so Jack had,
6:55
So Sir Jack, we're talking Sir Jack Brabham?
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Yeah, he'd just become world champion.
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So I guess that's my love or interest or desire to be involved in the business started then, when I was probably 14, 15, 16, 17, 18.
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Excellent.
7:10
Are we talking midgets or are we talking what sort of speedway were you doing?
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No cars.
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Yeah, cars.
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Terrific.
7:17
So from Darwin, you've got enough in the pocket and you decide to do the OE.
7:23
Did you want it to go to England or you went elsewhere in the world?
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No, no.
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So England obviously was the goal.
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And so in those days, you got the word through the jungle of how you should do this.
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So there were two opportunities in those days to go to Europe and fire America.
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And yeah.
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You heard that it was very hard to get work there or you go through South Africa.
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So this friend of mine from the Darwin days, we decided to go through South Africa.
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So we went to South Africa.
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Rhodesia?
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Is that what you said you went?
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Well, we went to South Africa initially and then we worked there.
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So it was easy to get work.
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you'd spun a few yarns along the way.
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Like what?
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You loved South Africa.
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You didn't like Australia and blah, blah, blah.
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And dare I say it, you were white.
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And so you got work and then I loved that.
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And then I wanted to go to Rhodesia.
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So then I went up to Rhodesia for three months.
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And then –
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That was that.
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And then I thought, well, this Europe thing's still there.
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I better get over there.
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So then I went over to Munich for the Olympic Games.
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And then all of a sudden, I loved Munich.
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I mean, talking about a guy that grew up in Canberra, which is pretty insular of 25,000 population at the time.
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And so that opened my eyes.
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So then I...
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Worked in Munich for probably a year, and I remember hitchhiking all around Europe to the Grand Prix.
8:46
Awesome.
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What was far, or where did you go?
8:48
What places?
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Did you?
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Yeah, Spain, Paul Ricard, Zeltweg at the time, the races.
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Hitchhiked over to England, came back again.
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Take people there.
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Who were some of the heroes, the stars at the time that you were able to watch trackside at these places?
9:03
Who did you...
9:04
Oh, Emerson.
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Yes.
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Emerson and Nicky.
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Mario Andrini.
9:08
Yeah.
9:09
Yeah, Mario.
9:10
Well, I think when Mario raced, I was already involved.
9:12
I was in Europe at that time.
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But Jackie was racing, Francois Sever.
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Beautiful.
9:16
Yeah.
9:16
Beautiful.
9:17
And so then off to England, I said, well, I better get on with this motor racing caper.
9:21
So, I mean, you...
9:23
Pre-internet days.
9:25
So are you writing to someone with a dream?
9:29
Were you adamant you wanted to go and work for this person?
9:31
What was the mission?
9:32
Well, I wanted to drive.
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So you go to England.
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And so what I did, I joined up a driving school run by David Purley and Derek Bell.
9:42
Okay.
9:42
They had it down at Goodwood.
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So then I started writing.
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driving these Formula Fords.
9:47
But then, well, I had zero money, of course.
9:50
Probably every Australian had went to Europe.
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But I just felt that what I wanted to achieve as a race driver, I probably couldn't achieve it.
9:59
When did that dawn on you?
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At what age and at what point of the European adventure?
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I was probably 22 or something.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Which at the time was pretty young to be involved in the sport.
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So then that was sitting there at the same time.
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Then I, the house we lived in Acton and a chap there was a draftsman and he worked with another guy, another Australian who lived in Ealing and they were talking all the time and
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And the guy in my house would say, I've got this crazy guy in our house who loves motor racing.
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And this other guy had said, oh, well, I've got a crazy guy in my house who's a race driver, which was Larry.
10:35
Larry Perkins.
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So then we got introduced to one another.
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And for whatever reason, Larry and I just hit it off.
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At the time, he wasn't doing anything.
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So we're talking 74.
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He'd already stopped racing his GRD.
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And then mid-74, I think it was mid-74, Ron had come back to the UK.
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Ron Turanac, yes.
10:55
Ron Turanac.
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He'd come home.
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He'd sold everything, except he hadn't sold the Brabham factory.
11:02
He owned that.
11:03
Okay.
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And Bernie leased that off him, although Bernie had owned the Formula One team and the Brabham name and whatever.
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And then when he came back, Ron was sort of,
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not happy back here.
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And bear in mind, he'd been in England for probably 30 odd years.
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So he went back and then he decided to start building cars again, which was a Ralt.
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Okay.
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And he was aware of Larry and rang Larry and said, listen, I'm going to build these cars.
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I'll give you the first car that we build.
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But in the meantime, I bought this little factory in Woking, which was an old electrical factory or steel factory, and it was just a mess.
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So we went, and Larry and I spent endless days there ripping all the junk out and painting the walls and stuff.
11:51
putting in proper doors to get a truck in and out, whatever.
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So that started the journey with Ron Turanac in 1974.
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And then Larry got that first car in 1975.
12:03
Tell me about life with or working with Ron Turanac.
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I mean, people know, you know, the story of legends, if you will, he and Sir Jack and the things that they had sort of achieved.
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What was he like to work with and to be around and things like that?
12:18
Bloody difficult.
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Was he?
12:19
Yeah.
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Bloody difficult.
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What did you learn from him then?
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He was a very hard taskmaster.
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And you had to work and you couldn't talk.
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What did I learn from him?
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Well, probably one of the better things is you got into this industry and probably like a lot of it is there's a lot of charlatans and Ron was far from being a charlatan.
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He was an honest, decent, clever guy.
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So to be around someone like that in the industry from the get-go, you just had to look and see how he operated.
12:53
I mean, okay, the things that...
12:55
you probably didn't agree with.
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But the basic, probably the two things that I reflect now on life, he taught me humility.
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Did he?
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And he didn't know he did.
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And he taught me honesty.
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And in honesty in the sense that if you buy something or you owe something to someone, you pay that person and what they're due.
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But the humility was quite funny, really.
13:24
It was probably some years later with Nelson, and I'd go in there Monday morning after every Formula 3 race.
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And I remember once we'd probably won six or seven races, and I was quite upbeat and very excited about all this.
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And I was telling Ron and his right-hand man at the time, a Frenchman called Alain Fenn,
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basically what a great job we're doing and pumping up your tires.
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And Ron was just looking at me and not saying anything.
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And I'm thinking, well, why isn't he saying anything?
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And I just sort of suddenly dawned on me why.
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I let it go and carried on the conversation.
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But when I went out, I said, well, he didn't say anything to you, Peewee, you idiot, because you just look what he's done.
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And I'm telling you about, you know, we'd won six or seven races.
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So that taught me not to sort of, that's humility, just do your thing.
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And if you're loving and enjoying it and getting paid, well, that's enough.
14:24
Let others talk about it.
14:25
Honesty, humility, that leads us to kind of integrity, which is a big thing for you, mate, isn't it?
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And you obviously figured that out very early on in the school of life.
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And it's been a constant for you the entire way along, I think, hasn't it?
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Was it people like Ron?
14:44
Was it life experience?
14:45
How did...
14:48
You know, I know you could take a call from Eddie Jordan as we sit here.
14:53
You could get, you know, have good conversation with a Bernie Eccleston.
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I know all of those things.
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You never gloat about that.
15:00
I know that.
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But how did a young man who left home relatively early learn something?
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these massive life skills and garner that sort of trust, rapport with these world champions, with people of high stature in motor racing?
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Where did you learn that?
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Well, probably I started learning back from when I was 15.
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I mean, when you're out there in the world and you're on your own, so to speak,
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you learn pretty quickly.
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And so I guess I learned it from that.
15:34
But as I said, once again, I started being, so from the get-go I was around Ron Turanac, and I just saw how he operated and how people related and operated and put that back to him.
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To him.
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And then I started to also understand that if you just keep those values and keep going, you don't have to say anything.
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You just do not have to tell them because other people will ask.
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And I know that if people want to find out of me,
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They won't come to me, they'll go and ask other people.
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And then, and that'll speak for itself.
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And I just, some things come back to me and they just say trust.
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If you want to speak to Peewee, trust, straight away.
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Like absolutely straight away.
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And so, you know,
16:17
I don't know how I'd learned it.
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That's just how it was in my DNA to operate like that, and it's been like that ever since.
16:24
Were you a good observer of people and what people were like?
16:27
Yeah, I sensed that you can...
16:29
Totally.
16:30
Yeah.
16:30
And also a good observer of the charlatans and the fools, of which there's plenty in the pit lane all the time.
16:36
How'd you deal with them?
16:36
Walked around them.
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Did you?
16:38
If I saw them, I'd just walk by.
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Don't say anything.
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Could you almost sense that from the get-go?
16:43
You knew what someone was like.
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Some of the people, you've heard the stories, and secondly, they've got to you as well.
16:50
They'll only get to me once, but I just avoid them.
16:54
There's no point trying to re-educate those type of people.
16:57
That's how they're programmed.
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They're doing that sort of thing.
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That's how they are.
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That's in their DNA.
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So I'd just best to leave it alone.
17:03
Larry Perkins, let's come back there in this convo.
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I mean, you guys still get on, I think, super well to this day.
17:10
I'm sure there's probably been moments along the way.
17:14
But what is it about LP?
17:16
I mean, what was he like in those early days too?
17:19
Bloody fun.
17:20
Was he?
17:22
In what way?
17:23
It was bloody fun.
17:24
He tells some good stories with my mates, Darryl Beattie, when they've been dirt bike riding in the middle of the never-never and, you know, Simpson Desert and so on.
17:31
But, yeah, that was early days for him, wasn't it?
17:34
Yeah, so 75, I mean, so we said off the two of us.
17:38
I was a gopher.
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knew very little about, you know, fettling a race car.
17:45
So basically, you know, Larry fettled the major stuff and I did the minor stuff.
17:50
And so off we went and we just literally had no money.
17:53
Were you big on presentation and doing it right and slick organised?
17:57
No.
17:57
Not then?
17:58
Well, have you seen photos of 1975?
18:01
The presentation wasn't very good, I can tell you.
18:05
But that didn't matter to Larry at the time.
18:07
But look, it was just fun.
18:10
And they created the European Championship halfway through the season.
18:15
And Larry had won two of the races, so he became the European Champion, which was a bit of a... Look, the big disappointment that year was not winning Monaco.
18:22
Mm-hmm.
18:24
And there were reasons behind that, which I'll just leave it alone in history, but that would have been a great uplift for him at the time and certainly for Rolt.
18:35
We did European races as well as the UK races.
18:41
And as I said, we just had no money and we just continually try to manipulate ways how we could get things done for nothing.
18:47
You know, and a classic example, which I seemed reflected on when I knew you were coming, was that we had to go and do a race in London.
18:57
the Hewlett's Ring in Denmark.
19:00
Didn't have to.
19:00
We were going to do a race.
19:02
And we were in Europe and we'd taken the truck to somewhere in north of Holland or north of Germany and left it there, came back to Rolt.
19:11
And so, well, how are we going to get to Denmark?
19:14
Because we had no money.
19:16
And so another friend of ours comes.
19:18
So we had two sets of tyres.
19:20
some body panels, and had no idea how we were going to get to Europe.
19:24
So we thought, well, we'll go by boat.
19:27
So we went down to Dover and thought, well, how are we going to get on this boat without paying?
19:36
So...
19:37
We got down to Dover about three hours before the boat was to work out how people, not customers, but how workers and everything got on the boat through the back of the boat.
19:50
So we sat on the side of the hill.
19:52
I remember reflecting, well, how this could work.
19:54
And so we then worked out how we could get on this boat, being workers and whatever.
19:58
And so we did such a thing.
19:59
And then we got on there with two sets of tyres and body panels and hid somewhere where I've got no idea.
20:05
But anyway, that was just – we were just up to things the whole time.
20:09
And in those days, you know, you could really push the envelope a fair bit.
20:13
I mean, the things we did in those days, we did now, well, you'd be locked up instantly.
20:18
Plus, every city, major city in the world or port has cameras and, you know, facial recognition.
20:25
But look, it was a good year, a really good year.
20:27
We enjoyed it despite the hardships.
20:30
He won the Monza Lotteria.
20:32
I mean, that was another issue with Ron, you know, because Ron would always give you a list a mile long to have done before you go to a race.
20:39
And some of them were just finicking, unnecessary, or could be done at the track.
20:44
And I remember when we did the Monza Lotteria,
20:46
And Ron had gone home for lunch, which he always did.
20:48
Norm would always make his lunch and he'd always go home for dinner and come back to the factory.
20:52
So it was a Saturday and he went home for lunch and Larry said, bugger this, we're out here.
20:56
So we threw everything in the truck and off we went to Italy.
21:00
And he obviously, Ron had come back and noticed we'd gone.
21:03
And then he hadn't heard us for a couple of days and he rang the agent and said, are we in Italy?
21:06
And they said yes.
21:07
Because once again, we had no money.
21:10
And we booked into the hotel where everyone else was.
21:12
And Gunnar Nielsen was racing for March at the time, the works March car.
21:17
And Larry said to Gunnar, he said, look, he told him what we'd done.
21:20
We'd just piled the...
21:23
the car into the truck with all the spares and Ron would have given us some travel money.
21:28
And he told Gunnar that we don't have any money.
21:32
And he said now, and the prize money at Monza Lottery was quite good actually.
21:35
And he said, he asked Gunnar, could you cover our hotel bill?
21:38
Which he said he would.
21:39
Wow.
21:40
But as it turned out, we won the Monza Lottery.
21:43
Really?
21:43
Yeah.
21:45
I don't know how it might have been $10,000 at the time.
21:47
I know it was a significant amount of money.
21:49
Yeah.
21:50
So you're playing Gopher at, you know, at a point along the way here.
21:54
How do you merge from that into managing people and managing race drivers?
22:01
When did that sort of thing start to emerge?
22:05
How much more did you do?
22:07
Oh, pretty well.
22:08
It happened pretty quickly for me.
22:10
I mean...
22:11
I mean, it was another reflection back, you know, when I worked in the jungle, you know, that I was only there for six months and I, or whatever the time was, four months and became a driller.
22:24
You know, the normal time or the expected time to offside on drill rigs, because there's an understanding how to get core out of the ground and not wash it away.
22:32
I mean, there were technical things to learn about that.
22:35
And so that taught me you didn't necessarily have to do that sort of perceived apprenticeship or whatever, understanding of it, if you knew what you were doing.
22:43
And so I felt the very same with motorway.
22:45
So the next year, Larry went off and drove for Lou Stanley, I think it was, PRM.
22:50
What are we talking, 76 here?
22:53
76.
22:53
Yeah.
22:54
Anyway, so out of that, a guy came from...
22:58
from Denmark and bought a car and he was fully loaded with sponsorship and whatever.
23:03
He was a talker.
23:05
But anyway, in fact, his name was Talker Tiring, but he was a yapper, I should say.
23:11
Anyway, so he had bought the car and he asked me to help him around the ropes.
23:18
But anyway, he got hit by a car and broke his leg.
23:22
looked the wrong way in England, thinking he was on the other side of the road.
23:25
Anyway, so he had to get rid of the car.
23:27
Then some Dutch people arrived with Boy Heyer, a young Dutch guy, with money, and they wanted a car.
23:34
And it was hard to get a car at the time because the production levels weren't so quick.
23:37
So these Dutch people asked me to get involved, which I did.
23:42
So then they knew nothing about English Formula 3.
23:45
They knew very little about Formula 3, period, or indeed English Formula 3.
23:51
you know, what we've been doing with Larry.
23:52
And so, I don't know, I sort of got into that sort of manager role pretty well straight away.
23:58
Straight away.
23:58
I employed mechanics and we weren't successful.
24:00
Boy was very, very quick.
24:02
He wasn't smart, but he was quick.
24:05
Um, the next year was Jeffrey, uh, and the next year was Nels.
24:12
Nice.
24:12
And, oh, I don't know, I don't know, Greg, I mean.
24:17
I have sort of my own philosophies.
24:19
I mean, I see life as a bit of an opportunistic.
24:22
And one of the things that I probably taught my kids and say to young people, I mean, how do you look at life?
24:29
And for me, I see life or had seen life as a wave.
24:35
And some people, and not everyone's the same and want to do what you want to do, and the people just want to be.
24:41
you know, a milkman or a postman, but in life there's a wave and some people jump on the wave and fall off it and get back on the wave and ride it.
24:51
Some people see the wave and say, well, I don't want to get on that wave.
24:54
Or they'll go and touch the wave and, no, no, this is not for me.
24:57
And so I always felt that I wanted to get on that wave, whatever.
25:00
And keep riding it.
25:02
This is me, my analysis of life.
25:06
And I got on that wave and I rode it.
25:11
that I had around me, the values of, which the other days, it's called trust.
25:17
You know, it, it looks after you.
25:20
It just does.
25:21
And then with Nels, you know, things happened really quickly.
25:23
We were successful and, and the opportunities were there, you know, the, you know, two thirds of the season to get into F1 and, and to deal with,
25:33
team owners.
25:34
And so I did all that sort of contractual stuff for Nelson at the time.
25:38
And of course, then he went to Bernie and, and then, um, and then, uh, for three years and he was locked up by Bernie for three years.
25:48
And then, you know, what I do now, and I didn't particularly want to run my own team again.
25:54
I did.
25:54
I didn't want to do that.
25:56
So then Roberto came from Brazil through Nelson.
25:58
So.
25:59
We're jumping around here.
26:00
Let's drill down on a couple of these.
26:02
Firstly, Nelson is Nelson Piquet.
26:05
So where was the first time you met him, and what was your immediate reaction to him?
26:10
I mean, you know, he's gone on to achieve some great things, obviously, but what was the first sort of – Well, I'd met him the year before.
26:17
I saw him in one of the races in Europe.
26:19
You know, I was just aware of him, but met in England at Ralt.
26:25
Oh, my family, crazy.
26:27
Is that what you thought?
26:28
Yeah.
26:28
Crazy bloody Brazilian.
26:31
Ironically, you have now, when you look back on it, great connections with lots of South American races, don't you?
26:37
Crazy Brazilian.
26:41
But just, look, we were a similar age.
26:43
We're still friends to this day.
26:45
Yeah.
26:45
In fact, he rang me last week, as he generally does at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning.
26:48
Couldn't care what the time zone is.
26:50
I haven't returned his call yet.
26:52
But we're still very good friends.
26:53
Look, we just had the same goals and achievements of life.
26:57
I mean, he was obviously wanting to be a race driver, and I was a bit unsure where I was going to go.
27:02
We were similar age, virtually the same age, and we just got on.
27:06
And we knew the values of dealing with people.
27:10
You had the same philosophy.
27:12
Didn't go near charlatans or fools.
27:15
Trusted people.
27:16
A man of his word.
27:17
Just all those things.
27:19
Base principles.
27:20
Yeah.
27:21
And, you know, as I said, we just became friends out of that relationship.
27:28
So were you looking...
27:31
Because you become a great leader of people, right?
27:35
And engineers and race drivers to a degree, I think Sam Michael in helping me for this podcast said, sometimes we get focused on the technical transaction, getting it done kind of thing.
27:48
Whereas you tend to look more broadly at the people, I guess, and how you can...
27:53
make it work as either a cohesive team or the people you need to work with for obviously the driver arrangements that you've done and so on.
28:02
So were you looking at Nelson as a fast racing driver with talent or were you looking at someone that you could, that had the right backing, you could work with the right people and collectively you could stitch something together?
28:18
How did you sort of look at that?
28:21
Does that make sense, my question?
28:22
I don't know if it does.
28:23
Yeah.
28:25
No, look, for me at the time, it was just an opportunity to work with another driver.
28:32
Was he looking for representation for management or something or other?
28:34
What was he looking for?
28:36
Well, he just needed a hand.
28:37
He needed to...
28:39
Yeah, he wanted people around him that knew, particularly in England, because now he'd come to England.
28:43
The previous year he was in Europe.
28:46
In fact, when he first came out, I think he bought a March from memory, which was not the car to buy.
28:51
So we're talking 77 there.
28:52
Then I think he bought a Rolt towards the latter part of the year from memory.
28:56
And then he came in and bought a Rolt.
28:59
But he was wise and smart enough to know that he couldn't achieve all the things because he had two other people with him, a young gopher, a Brazilian kid, and a guy, Pedro, who's worked with Nils.
29:15
post-motor racing all through his business auto track and still lives within Nelson's compound.
29:20
So Pedron was a hands-on maker of things.
29:26
So Nelson knew he needed more people around.
29:28
So then I came, and then because we were growing and growing, we then had to get a proper mechanic, a South African guy,
29:37
So then we had the nucleus thing.
29:39
But Nels could see he wanted to put all those things together.
29:44
And I became part of that.
29:46
And then I guess it came back to I started doing things that was trust.
29:52
You know, I started doing things that, you know, that –
29:56
particularly the latter part of that year with the contracts, talking to sponsors, talking to the European races we did for start money.
30:04
I mean, he just left all that to me.
30:06
And that was the trust component of it.
30:08
But the goal was he obviously wanted to be in Formula 1 no matter what.
30:13
And that was his driven goal.
30:16
It probably wasn't my driven goal.
30:19
And as it turned out, I've never actually worked in Formula 1 directly myself.
30:23
But...
30:27
We just achieved a lot in a very small space of time.
30:31
Time.
30:32
Very small space of time, which was probably seven months.
30:35
In fact, at the end of the year, Ron had said to me,
30:39
or maybe the beginning of the next year, he said, listen, Peewee, he said, what you guys did last year, he said, you would have won the Formula One World Championship five years ago because we had two cars by the end of the year, and we were continually down a good with testing and testing and testing.
30:55
But, yeah, Ron said five years ago we would have won the World Championship for what we did, so.
30:58
Mm-hmm.
31:00
Were you understanding the business?
31:03
Were you understanding, okay, this is worth this or you should be paid that?
31:08
And were you immersed in learning all that sort of stuff, be it sponsorship, be it what a driver was worth contractually?
31:17
And did you understand the depths of the contract or you treated it with the principles you talked about before that you could structure it in such a way that, you know, so long as we deliver X, it's worth that?
31:30
Correct.
31:30
Well, yeah, the contracts were, I mean, some of the stuff that I didn't know, I would go to a lawyer and ask to just double check things.
31:38
Yep.
31:39
But valuations, well, those are the contracts we were paying money, we weren't being paid.
31:43
Mm-hmm.
31:45
Then the contract with Bernie, well, you know, you just don't negotiate people like that.
31:52
You just don't.
31:53
I would never seek to know the commercial parts of that.
31:57
That's not for anyone to know.
31:58
But I'm intrigued what he was like to deal with.
32:01
What was he like to – because in the handful of times I've been able to meet him or interview him, he's always two steps ahead in the chess game, isn't he?
32:10
Always.
32:10
Always.
32:12
And that's why I end up where he was or what he became.
32:15
He just was two steps ahead.
32:17
Look, I had a few things to do with him over the years, particularly, you know, they asked me to go to Bradham, which I declined.
32:28
Why?
32:29
Why?
32:30
Oh, I just didn't want to be part of that.
32:31
Mm-hmm.
32:32
Not him necessarily.
32:33
I just didn't want to be part of a person in, you know, in an organization.
32:39
Mm-hmm.
32:39
I was still trying to find my way.
32:41
In fact, if you speak to my wife, she probably tells you I'm still trying to find my way.
32:45
LAUGHTER
32:47
I think you've done all right.
32:49
Where I was going, so I declined that.
32:51
But look, I've done a few things with Bernie over the years and absolutely no problem.
32:57
And it was phone, there was no contracts, no nothing.
33:01
And I have to say, even the last years I saw him, he would always, always say hello to me.
33:06
Whatever.
33:07
Terrific.
33:18
PeeWee's so-called media manager Mark Clarkham is in the Rusty's Garage Library.
33:22
There's some absolutely great laughs in that podcast, including a yarn on the data acquisition project they gave an ambitious young engineer, Sam Michael.
33:31
So I did a deal with this mob in Melbourne, and I think they were called Data Communications.
33:37
And they did weather recording stations, right?
33:39
So I thought, oh, yeah, that's gathering data, weather recording.
33:42
They take a sample, you know, once every 30 days, three weeks.
33:47
What we actually need is a sample, you know, 200 samples a second.
33:49
Here, Sam, can you use this?
33:52
As Molly would say, do yourself a favour and listen to that one.
33:56
Now back to Rusty and Siddle.
33:58
Is it just me or does that sound like a loyal firm?
34:03
Roberto Moreno.
34:05
He's been on my buddy Tom Clarkson's podcast, F1 Beyond the Grid, and he has this personality, this effervescence, this energy about him.
34:16
Where did you first meet him, and how did that all go?
34:20
Well, first, at the end of 78, Jill and I went to Brazil for Christmas, New Year, stayed in Nelson's, and he had introduced me to Roberto or to Barsh.
34:34
at that time and Nels felt that as a pure race driver, he always felt, because they raced go cars together, that Roberto was better than him.
34:46
Um, and he wanted to help him.
34:48
So we were in Brazil and Nels spoke to me about it.
34:55
Um, he had to go to England to do Formula Ford because he hadn't done any open wheeler racing in Brazil.
35:00
Mm-hmm.
35:01
Um, I knew nothing about Formula Ford.
35:05
Um, so I knew, uh, Kenny Atchison and then Kenny had won virtually every race in 78 in Formula Ford in a car called a Royal.
35:18
Mm-hmm.
35:19
And so I rang him and he said, yeah, look, blah, blah, blah, these are the people.
35:25
So I went back to England probably early January.
35:29
And so I went and got in contact with Royale.
35:33
And Mike Cornock, I think his name was Mike, was Cornock.
35:39
who owned Royale.
35:40
So I rang him and I said, blah, blah, blah.
35:42
And I guess he was aware of who I was.
35:45
So he said, well, come to the factory.
35:47
So here I go off to this factory late in the afternoon.
35:52
It was a pea soup of a day.
35:54
You could not see in front of yourself in daylight.
35:57
And by the time I got there, it was dark.
35:59
It was an old Nissan hut.
36:01
I couldn't – I can't remember where it was.
36:04
But anyway, I found the place, got there about 4.30,
36:08
And I walk in and Cornett wasn't there, but there were two guys working and one was fabricating and one was facilitating a car.
36:17
So I struck up a conversation with those two guys and we said, okay.
36:24
And then as it turns out, I said to the, what's your name?
36:26
And he said, my name's Rory.
36:28
And the other chap said, my name's Pat.
36:32
So I had Pat and Rory.
36:34
And so I ended up buying a car off them.
36:37
And the three of the money that had been raised back in Brazil.
36:39
Anyway, the Rory was Rory Byrne.
36:43
And the Pat was Pat Simmons.
36:47
So I got to know them back in those days.
36:50
So we set off in this Royale.
36:51
It was the wrong car to buy.
36:53
As it turned out, because Van Diemen, it was a good car.
36:57
Van Diemen came out with a better car in 79 and,
37:01
At the end of that year, um, you know, every manufacturer, Van Diemen, Royale, Swift, Hawk, all talking to me about having Roberto the next year because you could see that it was a talent.
37:18
But anyway, we decided to go with, with Ralph.
37:22
I think we had to give him 2000 pounds for all the championships.
37:25
And so we started with Ralph and, um.
37:29
And he just smoked it.
37:32
And then we had a relationship with a guy called David Minister, with Minister Engines, who built a particular engine for Roberto, which was known as a patch engine, which became quite infamous over the years.
37:43
So yeah, so that was the start of Roberto in the second year.
37:47
And so I was virtually doing everything.
37:50
Nels was adamant when he came to England, he wasn't going to live with, you're not living with me, you're going to live with people so you learn English.
37:59
So we put him with an English where he rent a room and Jill at the time started teaching him English.
38:05
This is your wife you're talking about.
38:07
Who's now my wife, yeah, has taught him English.
38:09
So, you know, he was probably like a younger brother and then the next year because we won everything, then we started doing Formula 3 deals which I started doing all those sort of deals as well and then,
38:21
And then, oh, I don't know, do you call things you do in this business a mistake or a regret?
38:27
I don't know regrets.
38:29
You make the best decision you have at the time, don't you?
38:31
So one of the things we did do, Colin Chapman, so now we're in Formula 3, Colin Chapman had said to PC, Peter Collins, why haven't we got young drivers on our books?
38:44
Because other teams had.
38:45
So PC had rung me.
38:48
And said, look, you know, we want to do this deal with Roberto.
38:52
I said, are you sure?
38:54
I said, he's only got in the form of... Yeah, Colin's going off his tree.
38:57
We need to get...
38:58
So anyway, we ended up signing... Well, they ended up signing the contract in Brazil because I think that time Brazil was the first Grand Prix.
39:06
And I probably didn't want the contract signed, but there was just so much pressure that we signed.
39:12
And as I said, on reflection, there were another opportunity.
39:15
Well, first of all, the car was rubbish at the time.
39:20
And then the next year when Roberto actually got in the car at Sandford and didn't qualify, because I think they kicked Nigel out of the race before, or Derek Daly, I can't remember.
39:31
And then another opportunity came up with Frank.
39:35
Frank had gone to Nelson and said, look, I think he said, Royton was walking out.
39:40
What do you think?
39:42
This is prior to Nelson, who had already been the world champion one year.
39:47
And he said, look, you should sign Marino.
39:49
So they came to us and Colin just wouldn't.
39:53
He said, okay, you can have him, but we want him back.
39:56
So there was a big opportunity that had gone.
40:00
So you're talking here, just to sort of join some dots with people, we're talking Frank Williams, obviously.
40:05
Frank Williams, yeah.
40:06
So Frank had gone to Nelson and said, who do you think he should take this young kid, being Roberto?
40:13
And so that discussion happened, but Colin said, no, I mean I had this discussion with PC, not with Colin.
40:22
And PC said, well, he can go, but we want him back and Frank just wouldn't entertain that, so.
40:29
So that was opportunity missed, you feel?
40:31
Very opportunity missed, yeah.
40:34
How did you – because then there's the reality of the business and how tough it can be at times.
40:40
And how do you deal with that and then also keep moving on because you want to look after Roberto and you felt like it was perhaps a missed opportunity but you can't – it's a game that doesn't stop.
40:51
You can't – you've got to look on to the next thing, don't you?
40:53
Well, we're still with Lotus so it's not as if –
40:56
There was nothing.
40:57
There was nothing.
40:57
We were still with Lotus.
40:59
So, but the opportunity with Frank was to drive the car straight away.
41:05
With Lotus, he was, well, I don't think we called it reserved driver in the day.
41:09
You know, he was just on their books, so to speak.
41:12
So there was still that opportunity.
41:14
But as time went on, it didn't materialise.
41:17
So then, so...
41:21
What did we do?
41:22
We sort of, you know, we need to get his status up again or his reckoning up again.
41:29
And so now we're into 81 and, or we're still in 81, I should say.
41:34
And then Bob Jane came on the scene in Australia.
41:41
I think the previous year they had a race at Sandown where I think they might have brought some Formula 1 cars out.
41:47
But he wanted to stage an Australian Grand Prix.
41:49
It may not have had Formula 1 status, but he wanted to get a Grand Prix happening there and to get some big names.
41:54
Well, he wanted the Formula 1.
41:55
His ultimate goal was to have Formula 1.
41:57
Okay.
41:58
And so he then Atlantic had come to Australia or Mondial.
42:02
I can't remember what it was called here.
42:06
I think it was called Atlantic here and it was Mondial in Europe.
42:09
And he said that he's going to put this race on at the end of 81.
42:14
And Rolt had an agent in Australia at the time, Graham Watson, who had actually sold a few cars here.
42:20
And then he'd been in contact with Ron, saying this opportunity, blah, blah, blah.
42:25
And then I was aware of Graham because we had gone to New Zealand in 78 with Larry and Graham and David Mackay.
42:35
Summer, yeah.
42:37
So I knew who Graeme was and he was telling Ron about these opportunities.
42:40
So then Graeme rang me and I said, well, listen, why don't I really like to get Roberto out there for that.
42:47
And, um,
42:49
And I said, look, if we can do that, I said, I'll ask Nels to come to do the race with, you know, to come to Australia.
42:58
Yep.
42:59
And so we amongst ourselves agreed with that.
43:02
Ron loaning the cars initially so then they could be onsold after.
43:08
So no funds had to be put up here for the cars.
43:10
And...
43:12
Nelson agreed with me.
43:14
Yes, okay, he'll do it.
43:16
He hadn't spoken to Bernie at the time.
43:18
So then they spoke to Bob Jane.
43:20
And, of course, I wanted money for Nelson and for Roberto.
43:25
And then Bob Jane had told Graham Watson, well, I'll pay for Nelson, but I'm not paying for this other bloke.
43:34
this Merino bloke.
43:36
And Graeme told me, I said, well, Graeme, there'll be no deal.
43:39
It's a package.
43:41
You know, if Nelson's coming, so is Roberta.
43:44
Anyway, that went back to Bob.
43:45
And I heard that Bob took a bit of umbrage about that and thought, um,
43:52
who the F is, this little bloke telling me what people I'll bring to Australia.
43:57
And anyway, I had heard that he'd rang Alan Jones and asked Alan, you know, what the hell this was all about.
44:04
And he said, well, you better listen to him if you want.
44:07
Nelson.
44:08
Mm-hmm.
44:08
So anyway, we did the deal.
44:11
I got Nelson good money at the time, Roberto a lot less.
44:20
Nelson went and spoke to Bernie.
44:21
Bernie said, no problem.
44:22
Excellent.
44:23
And whatever money's earned, it's amongst us.
44:25
Yep.
44:26
And so out we came.
44:27
And so that was 81.
44:29
And I think Pross came, maybe Lafitte came, maybe one or two others.
44:35
And of course, we won the race.
44:36
Mm-hmm.
44:37
And he won, if memory serves, I think he won three of those in the end, Roberto, didn't he?
44:42
Well, in 81 we won.
44:43
And so the next year the phone call came.
44:45
We said, okay, now we've got Marino locked in, haven't we?
44:49
The reigning champion.
44:51
And what about Nelson?
44:52
So we went back the next year.
44:56
We got flogged.
44:57
I think there might have been a bit of...
44:59
Engine sort of improvements with other cars.
45:01
I'll leave it at that.
45:03
Nels came again.
45:04
Next year, Roberto again.
45:07
Alan drove as his teammate.
45:09
Then the next year, I mean, halfway through the year, I was out here and they said, well, can you get Nicky Lauder?
45:20
And I just laughed.
45:21
And Bob had a right-hand man called Alan Coleman.
45:27
And I just laughed, Alan.
45:28
I said, you won't have the money.
45:29
And so I came up with a figure.
45:33
I don't know why at the time.
45:35
But I mean, it was $100,000.
45:38
So that was 84.
45:38
But that's a lot of money then.
45:40
A significant amount of money.
45:41
And they said, OK. And so I...
45:47
had rung Nels again and said, can you speak to Nicky about doing this race?
45:56
And of course, I guess this comes back into this trust thing that if a guy like Nels goes to Nicky and says, listen, go and race for this peewee bloke in Australia and Marino, then you don't need contracts or whatever.
46:11
So, yep.
46:13
And then, yeah,
46:14
So then that happened.
46:16
Then I got this absolutely tirade of a phone call from Ron.
46:21
Ron Dennis we're talking about now.
46:23
How dare you do a deal with my driver?
46:26
And, of course, then Ron got on the phone telling me this is what I want.
46:30
you know, money and umpteen air tickets.
46:34
And then Ron was, cause I knew Ron Dennis through, you know, the F3 days and particularly when with Nelson and he had a, another young Brazilian called Chico Sarah, um, who we wiped.
46:47
Um, and so, you know, I said, Ron and, you know, he's threatening me or never working motor racing.
46:54
And I said, all right, Ron, okay, blah, blah.
46:56
So I just rang Nelson.
46:58
and said, listen, Ron's on the warpath.
47:00
And Nell said, don't worry, I'll ring Nicky.
47:02
So Nicky had obviously rung Ron and I guess, I don't know, maybe told him to pull his head in or keep out of it.
47:09
So anyway, that came out.
47:10
And so, you know, once again, we're sort of running with Roberto.
47:14
And then Nicky came, of course, and Kecky, I brought Kecky out as well.
47:18
Kecky Rosberg.
47:19
Kecky Rosberg, yes.
47:20
Come back.
47:21
We're rattling off some awesome names here, which I love.
47:23
Firstly, your manager, Mark Larkham, who we'll get to.
47:28
I've had a conversation with him for this too.
47:31
He says there's a good story about Nicky around the Australian Grand Prix and a comment he made about, I can't remember if I've got the story right here, but you may have looked perhaps a bit stressed or something.
47:44
And Nicky smiled and looked at you and said, yeah, but just put your hands in your pockets and you'll feel the.
47:50
like the coin or the earnings or something or other from this and you'll come right.
47:53
Well, have I got that story right?
47:54
What was that?
47:56
I don't know if I've got... You've got two stories mixed into one.
47:59
So I'll go back to the pocket one first.
48:01
Okay.
48:02
The pocket one was many years ago prior to that or might have been at the same time.
48:06
Nicky was not in Formula One driving, so it was that period.
48:11
And he was an ambassador...
48:13
role with BMW.
48:15
And he wasn't called an ambassador then.
48:17
It was called whatever at the time.
48:18
Everyone's an ambassador now.
48:21
And he was telling me once that he would go to these functions and basically talk to what he was a bunch of wankers.
48:30
He said that, did he?
48:31
But he was being paid to do that.
48:33
Mm-hmm.
48:34
And so he said, listen, PV, how I got around that was, so we're talking Deutschmarks.
48:41
He said, how I got around that, he said, I got 1,000 Deutschmarks and I put it in my pocket.
48:48
And he said, so when I went to these function and talked to these wankers, he said, what am I doing here?
48:54
And he said, I put my hand in my pocket and I'd feel this 1,000 Deutschmarks.
48:59
And he said, ah, yeah.
49:01
That's why I'm here.
49:02
Okay.
49:02
So that was that one.
49:03
The other story was with the money was here in Australia.
49:08
And I don't know whether I can mention all the names because some of them are still alive.
49:13
But basically, I got him all that money.
49:16
I got Keke half of that money or a third of that money and Roberto less again.
49:22
And so there were two opportunities.
49:25
They had a celebrity race and they wanted Nicky and Kecky to do the celebrity race.
49:35
So the organisers came to me and said, would they do it?
49:38
And I said, well, you know, I'll ask them.
49:41
And then, of course, Kecky and Nicky, the sharpest tax, you will do it.
49:44
We want to be paid.
49:46
So that was one thing.
49:48
The next thing was...
49:52
The organisers from Adelaide through Channel 9, I think at the time, had gone to Bob and wanted Nicky and I think Keke to go to Adelaide to meet John Bannon because now Bannon was thinking about getting a Formula One.
50:05
It was in play, wasn't it?
50:07
It was in play.
50:09
And so I went to Nicky and Keke again and said, look, and they said, well, yeah, we want to be paid.
50:15
So I got Nicky and Keki $10,000 each for driving the Nissan or whatever it was.
50:22
And then I got them $15,000 each for the, to go to Adelaide.
50:28
Shake hands and what have you.
50:29
And I said, that's really good guys.
50:32
And they said, yeah.
50:33
And I said, well, okay, I've done.
50:34
I said, what am I going to get out of this?
50:37
What am I going to get out of this deal?
50:39
So Nicky looked at Kecky and so now we're talking about the celebrity.
50:44
She says, listen, PV, because if you won the race, you got the car.
50:49
And Nicky says, PV, we will win the race.
50:54
And of course, as it turned out, there was a bit of shenanigans going on behind me.
50:58
Nicky and someone else, which I won't name because he's still alive, but Kecky duly won the race.
51:03
And when then Kecky, they came into the pit and they pulled the keys out and
51:07
Gave you the keys.
51:08
Here's your car.
51:09
I love it.
51:09
So there was my sort of commission on those two things.
51:15
So, yeah, Larkov is right, but you mix the stories.
51:19
That's what it was, yeah.
51:20
Tremendous.
51:21
Okay.
51:22
While we're rattling off these names, because people will love this stuff, what was Lauda like?
51:27
And can I, if you will forgive my indulgence, I'll share a little story with you.
51:30
This is about you, not me.
51:32
But the Rush movie, when it happened,
51:36
they asked me to go to the premiere in Melbourne and I got to meet Daniel Brule, the actor who's been in Inglourious Basterds and other things.
51:43
And he played Nicky Lauda in the movie.
51:46
And I was asked to do a, you know, 10 or 15 minute chat with him before the, you know, before the movie premiered.
51:52
And I said to him, invariably as actors do, you try and get into character by understanding the person and what they're like and so on.
52:00
And he said, Oh yes, yes, yes.
52:01
I,
52:02
I tried several times to get hold of Nicky, but he wouldn't take my call.
52:07
And he eventually took my call.
52:08
And when the call came through, it was like 6 a.m. in the morning.
52:11
And Nicky says, okay, I suppose we have to meet now.
52:14
Just bring hand luggage to Vienna.
52:16
That way, if we don't like each other, you can just piss back off to where you came from.
52:21
And I thought that was just fantastic.
52:23
And ironically, he and Brule, I think, got on pretty well and Daniel learnt a lot from him.
52:29
So what was he like to – well, they're great stories that you've shared there before.
52:33
What was he like to be around in that great period?
52:38
Smart people.
52:39
Mm.
52:40
Smart people.
52:41
Mm.
52:41
And you know, and you, you, a lot of the time I just listened and when I was around them, you just look and listen and learn, see how they operate.
52:50
Mm.
52:51
Good guy, honest to the day.
52:52
Mm.
52:53
And as it turned out over the years, him and Nels became very close.
52:56
Okay.
52:56
Very, very close friends.
52:58
In fact, Nels is not a funeral related person, but he actually went and was one of the pallbearers at his funeral.
53:04
Wow.
53:04
General.
53:06
But once again, just learning.
53:07
When you're sort of back to when I got in the get-go, you learn off Ronturno.
53:12
Can you just see how these people operate?
53:14
And they're one step ahead of everyone.
53:16
They really are.
53:17
And I don't think I'm that clever, but you just sit back and learn.
53:24
And the relationship we had and the deal we had in Australia was just good, just really good.
53:30
Kecky Rosberg.
53:32
Oh, yeah.
53:33
Kecky Rosberg.
53:37
Yeah, he says thank you.
53:38
Keke Rosberg, he was an earlier version of Kimi Raikkonen.
53:43
Was he?
53:43
But more outgoing.
53:44
He was good, really good.
53:47
And I got to know him in 78 when he was in New Zealand racing against Larry.
53:52
Yep.
53:53
And then he came back and raced.
53:56
He got involved with Enzyme or, no, Theodore Racing, I think it was.
54:00
But no, no, good.
54:01
Once again, just great guys.
54:03
Just professional.
54:04
Just sharp as tacks and good to work with, you know, and very easy.
54:09
Those deals, you know, people think they used to say those deals were difficult.
54:13
They were just easy.
54:14
They were just easy deals to do because you're doing deals when you're negotiating or doing deals with their name or they're sitting in the room.
54:23
No problem.
54:23
No problem.
54:24
So while we're rattling off a few names here, Gerhard Berger.
54:28
You've known him for quite some time, haven't you?
54:30
Gosh, I'm not name dropping, am I?
54:32
No, no, that's the thing.
54:33
I'm doing this because I know what you're like.
54:35
You're unlikely to do that.
54:37
But I want to, if you're comfortable, share a little bit of the incredible world that you've had.
54:43
You know, for this bloke that left Australia, chased a dream, took a little bit of a turn from what was race driving, but made a really good life out of it by being around these people and having their respect and rapport.
54:59
So, you know, to think that you could have this lengthy friendship with someone like Gerhard is – Well, Gerhard started – so this goes back to – so I don't know whether you're following a pattern here, but the Gerhard started back – so in 1984, correct me if I'm wrong, if not 84, 85, I had negotiated another deal with the Bob Jane Corporation.
55:25
much to the angst of the financial director, Morrie Riding, who's no longer with us.
55:32
And I would sow a seed with Bob.
55:36
Bob would hand on to Alan Coleman, who was the marketing director of the corporation, and then Morrie Riding would be money.
55:43
And when I used to walk into the corporation, into the financial area, Morrie would look up and he would say, oh, my God, here comes Mr.
55:52
Reverse Cash Flow.
55:56
Here comes Mr.
55:57
Reverse Cash Flow.
55:59
So in 1984, correct me, 85, we negotiated a deal that we're going to do Bathurst in a BMW.
56:08
Of course, Nels was racing for Bernie with BMW engines.
56:13
Engines, yep.
56:13
And Nicky and Nels were going to do the race.
56:18
So this never came out in the open.
56:20
It didn't materialize.
56:23
And this was just an idea, I thought, Nels again to come out and we'll make some money and blah, blah, blah.
56:30
Anyway, it didn't happen because in that same year, I think in the middle of the year, Nicky was racing at Salda, the track had dilapidated and he went off and he sprained or broke his wrist.
56:43
So that wasn't going to happen.
56:47
The boss of BMW Motorsport, Dieter Stuppert,
56:51
who was privy to all this, wanted this still to happen.
56:54
And so I was not keen on that because he said, well, I'll give you my two works driver, which were Roberto Revaglia and Johnny Chocotto.
57:05
So I then said, look, I don't know.
57:07
I'll let me speak to the sponsors if they're interested and said, yes, we'll do it.
57:10
So I went over to Europe.
57:13
And had a meeting with Dita and then we went to a place called Freylassing and then got introduced to the Schnitzer family and particularly Charlie Lamb.
57:22
Charlie Lamb, yeah.
57:23
Who was also my age.
57:25
And we just have a great – we had a great rapport and friendship and trust again.
57:29
And then through that –
57:32
All his drivers he had at the time, Dieter Quester, Johnny, Roberto, Gerhard, and that's where the Gerhard thing came into play.
57:42
So he was racing touring cars for Schnitzer as well as doing
57:47
Formula One, I think at the time, maybe Arrows with a BMW engine.
57:51
So then that relationship with Gerhard started to the extent that I think we're in Adelaide and that BMW I kept here after Bathurst and Gerhard raced it at Adelaide.
58:02
Adelaide, okay.
58:03
In the touring car race.
58:05
We started from the back of the grid because he couldn't do the qualifying because of the Formula 1 commitment.
58:09
But I mean, he was tearing through the field and then he got pushed off by, slugged by Johnny Harvey into the kiddie litter and that was that.
58:16
So I don't know, just over the years we've just kept in touch through the Schnitzer connection.
58:23
And when there were functions on with Charlie and his twin brother at the time anywhere in Europe, Gio would invariably always be there.
58:30
And then I would go to races and because of our friendship and
58:35
you know, well, I mean, I don't know what to say.
58:37
I mean, you know, he'd say, well, come to me with England.
58:39
So you jump in his jet and you go to England or go wherever.
58:41
And so we just have, and to the extent that we still have that friendship today.
58:45
Um, and, um,
58:50
I convinced him to send his nephew out to New Zealand to the TRS about five years ago, his sister's son.
58:56
And I'd spoken to Gowd and said, you know, to come to New Zealand.
59:01
And Gowd was just not aware of it.
59:04
He probably thought the cars in New Zealand had three wheels on them and all this sort of thing because his nephew was running, forming a BMW in Asia.
59:12
And there was just another thing.
59:13
Then he just told his sister, he said, listen, listen,
59:16
Lucas is going to Australia to do this thing.
59:18
I do New Zealand, just ring Pee Wee, and everything can be done.
59:21
So I did all the contracts and whatever.
59:22
Excellent, excellent.
59:23
And then suddenly Lucas came back three years later, and we went off to Japan.
59:28
In fact, I still talk regularly to Luggy.
59:31
Well, he talks to me about these contracts that are coming up or when they come up, whatever.
59:35
So we still have a great relationship with Gaurd.
59:38
We'll get to that.
59:40
I love the fact that you have this eye on what –
59:44
young talent are doing and some of the different series around the world where they're emerging and so on.
59:50
Can we get to, in wrapping up the component about Bob Jane and some of those races they put on before we got that Formula One status and Adelaide took off and so on, you brought out Mike Dudeson as well, incredibly respected player.
1:00:07
journalist um to this day i think the story goes did you did you ring him and organize a plane ticket and you were sort of so it wasn't just the drivers where i'm going here is that you were you must have been helping them to um spread the word on this showcase this race that they were they were doing in australia at the time because i think you you brought him out here you got him out here didn't you
1:00:29
Well, yeah, there was a bit of an ulterior motive there.
1:00:32
I mean, given that he was a credible, respected journo in the UK, well, he still is, and we have a friendship now to this day.
1:00:41
But, yeah, I brought him out.
1:00:42
I mean, Roberto, we wanted to get mileage in the press.
1:00:47
Now, was it bribery?
1:00:49
Could be.
1:00:50
Called it bribery, I'm not sure.
1:00:52
But, no, I facilitated an air ticket for him to come out and to give the event mileage because –
1:00:59
you know, was Australia.
1:01:03
Australia had done very little of any significance in terms of motor racing.
1:01:07
New Zealand had, through the Tasman Sea, it was more recognised in New Zealand than Australia.
1:01:11
And so, no, I said, Mike, would you come out?
1:01:13
And I had a, I don't know, I can't remember where our relations were.
1:01:17
I mean, I guess maybe in the 78, I mean, when you're kicking goals,
1:01:21
the art is that winners are grinners and people want to be around winners.
1:01:26
And so once again, you understand that and respect that, getting a bit back to my analogy of riding the wave.
1:01:35
And so you just make sure that when you want something that you get people involved to help facilitate.
1:01:40
And that's what I did.
1:01:41
And the right people.
1:01:42
And the right people.
1:01:43
And I brought him out here, yes.
1:01:45
Excellent.
1:01:46
There is a story of legend around that that people can find online.
1:01:49
I think about it.
1:01:50
Jonesy and LP engines and, and was it, was it a watch sponsor that Jonesy had at the time and things like that?
1:01:57
I have to go and find the.
1:02:00
About that first race?
1:02:01
Oh, I don't know if it was the first race, but it was one of the races, certainly the one that Mike came to and.
1:02:05
Well, it was, it was, look, it was the first race.
1:02:07
And look, once again, um, you know, there was certainly no love lost between Nels and Alan, um, and still not to this day.
1:02:17
So the Colter Racetrack is a very, very, it was probably the hardest races for me ever to win.
1:02:22
Wow.
1:02:23
It's 40 seconds.
1:02:24
Mm-hmm.
1:02:25
You know, there's three corners.
1:02:26
Yes.
1:02:26
So everything has to be spot on.
1:02:28
And so what I did also, unbeknownst, so...
1:02:31
I got Johnny Nick engines, right?
1:02:34
And we were aware that Alan was going to be doing the race.
1:02:37
I can't remember who he was doing it with or what.
1:02:39
He had a Rolt, obviously.
1:02:40
And so the other component was tyres.
1:02:43
And so what it was that there was a company called M&H Tyres, which was a subsidiary of Cooper Tyres America.
1:02:51
And I was aware, and the distributor of that was IRTS, which was a company owned by Bernie.
1:03:00
And I was aware that a very shrewd chemist, like he was in his 50s at the time, had left Goodyear and gone to this M&H stroke Cooper mob in the UK to make tires.
1:03:12
And so I was aware of that.
1:03:14
So I went out to IRTS and I said, listen, we're doing this race in Australia.
1:03:18
Nelson's coming and Roberto's coming and I want some tires and I want some good tires.
1:03:22
And I want this because I knew...
1:03:25
The chap's name, I can't recollect now.
1:03:28
And I want him to do the comments in our tires.
1:03:31
Oh, yeah, Pee-wee.
1:03:33
Jean Monnier was the French guy running the company for a bit.
1:03:36
Oh, yeah, Pee-wee, we'll do all this, but it's going to cost this.
1:03:39
And I said, no, no, no, I'm not paying.
1:03:42
So I told Nels the story and I said, okay, Nels, you need to come to this meeting with me.
1:03:47
So I bring Nels to the meeting.
1:03:49
And of course, you know, when you bring Nels, you know, into meetings, people, their backs stiffen up and they start paying attention.
1:03:56
Which you observe.
1:03:58
And so basically that worked.
1:04:00
So we obviously got all the ties with nothing.
1:04:01
So the score was with it.
1:04:04
There's no way that Alan Jones was allowed to buy these tires.
1:04:07
Okay.
1:04:08
And so that was the deal.
1:04:09
And so that was the deal negotiated with Jean Monnier.
1:04:13
And this obviously would have been fed back to Bernie because Bernie owned this distribution company, tire distribution company.
1:04:19
And so it got it ticked.
1:04:21
And so we got our tires.
1:04:22
In fact, I remember coming to Sydney and we were testing out at Oran Park the tires with Nels.
1:04:29
Mm-hmm.
1:04:31
And the Cooper distributor here in the state of his name escapes me again, but he had a Mercedes and he had a car phone, which I thought was this pretty damn good.
1:04:39
And so we're ringing, we're doing the tyre testing.
1:04:42
We're ringing the chemist.
1:04:44
From the car.
1:04:45
From the car back to England, telling exactly what was going on the tyres.
1:04:48
So they were making adjustments to the compounds of the tyres.
1:04:51
On the go.
1:04:52
On the go.
1:04:52
And then send us out the tyres, yeah.
1:04:54
So that was, yeah, so Mike was privy to that and that was that first race, yeah.
1:04:58
Amazing.
1:05:06
That's the end of part one of my podcast with respected driver manager Greg Siddle.
1:05:10
How's the access and the names?
1:05:13
The good news for you is we are not done yet.
1:05:16
There is roughly another hour of chat all parked up and ready for you to enjoy right now in the Rusty's Garage Library.
1:05:23
How he convinced Ralph Fuhrman that the Aussie market was worth playing in and the incredible talent that would get behind the wheel of Van Diemen machinery and succeed in the years that follow.
1:05:34
The advice that Mark Webber ignored in the early years and that turned out to be the right call.
1:05:40
A young man with speed and incredible determination who just wanted to keep climbing.
1:05:46
Meeting a young Sam Michael and actively encouraging his bright engineering talent to go to Formula One and the introductions he helped facilitate for Sam.
1:05:56
Telling Larco to take the emotion out of the decision and the depth of friendship they share.
1:06:02
Peewee is like a father to him.
1:06:05
Plus the next wave of driving talent he keeps an eye on in junior categories right round the world.
1:06:10
His long term working relationships with manufacturers, the origins of his nickname, and the new
1:06:16
and much, much more.