Latest / Skin Anarchy / E 327: RéVive Masterclass Series Episode 3/3

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E 327: RéVive Masterclass Series Episode 3/3 · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Diablo 4 has arrived.
• 0:03
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• 0:25
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• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is our third episode in the three-part series where we're doing a masterclass with Dr.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Brown, who is the mastermind behind Revived Skincare.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm super excited about this episode because we also have the product development lead for Revive with us, Liz Martin.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Dr.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Brown.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Liz.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be hosting you guys again.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Good to be here.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's lovely to host you, and I'm really excited about this episode because it's going to be a lot about the ingredients and a lot about the approach that Revive has taken from the formulation side.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't wait to dive in.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Liz, I would love to really start the conversation off by talking about Reviv itself and the approach that the, you know, the line has taken when it comes to formulation and just developing, you know, just ingredient-heavy products that are, you know, really rooted in science.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe a general overview would be great.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, the brand, as you said, is really rooted in science.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Every product that Dr.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Brown and I conceptualize and develop has some major science in the formulation.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: And as we're building each formula, you know, Dr.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Brown and I in the background are spending a lot of time working with uh biotech companies.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Dr.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Brown has tentacles in so many places, universities, biotech companies.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been in the industry for a very long time as well.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, with my connections at Raw Materials Suppliers and some of the uh labs that we work with, between the two of us, we're always in the background trying to conceive of and develop some new and interesting technologies that we can then um uh put into each of our formulations.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a it's a true love of science, both from Dr.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Brown and myself.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then that science is then translated into how can it affect the skin in a positive way?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's not science just for the sake of science, it's science for the sake of what we can actually do to um stimulate cell renewal, to help build collagen, to help build elastin, to help actually fundamentally change our skin so that it acts uh younger the way it did when it was younger.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes sense.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's why Raviv is just the products are so good because you know, I often hear brands that do, you know, one or the other, right?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're focused on immediate results or they're focused on this idea of like, well, it's gonna take a long time for things to kick in, you know.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like when you approach it from the tech this technology side and the science side, um, going back to what you said, Liz, you know, it's it's really this idea of what works for the skin, you know, as compared to other organs.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Brown, I'd love for you to chime in on this and and talk about that, like that specific point that Liz made.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, obviously uh in a bit of hyperbole, but not entirely.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: I like to say Raviv is the most natural of skincare lines, even though we're highly technological.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: As Liz was mentioning, a lot of our our three sort of uh base, you know, building block uh ingredients are our bioremil peptides, which are actual proteins, peptides that um we lose with age.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um peptides that give us homeostasis that basically keep us young.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: That you know, Liz mentioned we uh try to return the skin to physiologically younger age.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really what um the first one we used was epidermal growth factor.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a naturally occurring peptide, it's made biosynthetically, so there's no human tissue involved, but it naturally decreases with age.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: I like to say, you know, it takes fewer calories to keep you alive at 60 than it does at 20 because your basal metabolic rate slowly slows.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: So the same is true about skin and many different um biochemical reactions in the body.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Things tend to slow down.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Proteins get glycated, enzymes get glycated.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: So our philosophy is to really return to the skin what it loses with age.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um that's also in line with that preventative side of things, right?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in in terms of like uh giving the skin what it needs when it needs it, so that, you know, later down the line you're not dealing with the steep, you know, I guess, uh in decline of just elasticity or whatever it is that we use to measure skin health.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I I like what you said.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now I have a question about the peptides, Dr.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Brown, because um just for our listeners, you know, you described it in a wonderful way, but um, what length do peptides have to be?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when we're talking about, you know, just putting together amino acids, you know, how long should they be to be actually efficacious, you know, for skin?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's really it's dictated by the specific receptor that they're gonna buy into.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, growth factors, for example, epidermal growth factor is a big relatively big uh it's a protein, you know, it's sort of a catch-all term.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Peptide is very nonspecific.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: Protein implies a little more amino acids than a peptide.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Most peptides are 10, 12, 14 amino acids.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And what dictates the size is more the receptor they're going to uh bind to in the skin.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it needs to match up so that they can bind.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then once they bind to the receptor, then the whole cascade of biochemical reactions occur that bring about uh you know desired aesthetic effects that we're looking for, renewal, volume, firmness, those sorts of things.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one of my questions is that because Reviv has this biorenewal technology in place um and there's this use, you know, have heavy use of peptides, how does that impact other things that we care about, like in terms of our skin?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, there's a lot of conversation around hyaluronic acid.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, um, just as we all know, hyaluronic acid also exists naturally in us, right?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: So how does that work?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, have you guys um seen how things are working in terms of like the downstream signaling and stuff in terms of upregulating this?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or it's just um, you know, how does how does it work?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we and Liz will speak to this.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, there's a huge, relatively large number of buzzword molecules you hear about in all aspects of the skincare industry, from the drugstore to the high-end, things like hyaluronic acid, vitamin C, niacinema.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's you know, several of those, and we try to incorporate those.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: And Liz can speak more to that because we've dealt with that over the past few years.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Liz, you want to comment?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, I liken it to a multivitamin, right?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: You can take, you can take a specific vitamin every day, in this case, um the active fraction of epidermal growth factor.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: You could take that every day, and that's terrific.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's gonna help skin cells to renew themselves.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: But that that won't in and of itself um fully help the skin with moisturization.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: So we add sodium hyaluronate.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: We don't add hyaluronic acid um explicitly because that's a very large molecule, but we add sodium hyaluronate to the skin to help benefit the moisturization.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: We would add a vitamin C because of the antioxidant protection that it provides.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: So if when we add in multiple ingredients together, it's like taking a multivitamin versus just taking individual vitamins.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you know what I mean?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes total sense.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm glad you brought up um the size of hyaluronic acid and um just I want to talk a little bit more about that ingredient because I know that it's in almost every skincare line these days.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think people really know much about it.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: So can you tell us about just give us like a I guess 101, you know, about hyaluronic acid.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: What should consumers know and what what should they be looking for, you know, in terms of a good product that has hyaluronic acid in it?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hyaluronic acid is just a fantastic ingredient.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: And and I love, you know, look, again, I I've been doing this for a really long time, and I love seeing ingredients finally get their due in the consumer world.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: We've been using sodium hyaluronate for a very long time in ingredients because it's something that naturally is in your own body, it's what keeps your joints lubricated.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's why your fingers move so easily, your knee joints move so easily.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it's a fluid that's in your body and it holds about a thousand times its weight in water.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: So the molecule, when you use it um uh as a topical product, it draws moisture into the skin.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's a humectant, and then it actually helps your body retain moisture.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a fantastic moisturizing uh mechanism.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: Over the years, um the raw material suppliers and chemists have actually created multiple different molecule sizes of hyaluronic acid.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm sure some people have noticed it's not just it's no longer just called hyaluronic acid, there's 4D hyaluronic acid, there's now 5D and 6D.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: What that means is that there's different dimensions of the hyaluronic acid, different sizes.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: And when you have different sizes, the hyaluronic acid can then penetrate the skin to different levels.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: The smaller the molecule, the deeper it can penetrate into the epidermis.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: The next size larger will go slightly less deep.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: The size larger than that will go even slightly less deep.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: So you're getting this cascade effect of hyaluronic acid into the skin, and then it's just slowly releasing from deep within the epidermis all the way up to the surface where the largest of the molecules sit on top.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it like I said, it's a fantastic moisturizer.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so happy to see that everyone from mass brands to very prestige brands are using this ingredient because it really does benefit uh consumers from a moisturization standpoint brilliantly.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes so much sense.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you mentioned the different tiers of how we've gotten to this point of, you know, making it smaller and smaller so that it can do this, like, I guess, multi-you know, level effect or have this multi-level effect.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Brown, I'm I I'm curious though, you know, when you first came up to the concept for Rave, was hyaluronic acid like on your radar?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Was that something you definitely wanted to uh have in your products, or was it something that came on later on?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Not certainly I didn't know about it.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was a practicing plastic surgeon, so I knew really nothing about the industry.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Rave grew organically out of burn research.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: I did so over the years, and I don't know, Liz, you might be able to, you know, say when hyaluronic acid actually became an ingredient.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was 25 years ago, but I certainly didn't know about it.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: I became aware of it over the past 10 or 12 years, I guess.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's kind of a recent ingredient, though.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense what you're saying, Dr.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Ron, because it's I I haven't, you know, even being like learning medicine and like from the textbooks, we don't really learn about it, you know.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's true.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: You really don't.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can't remember, you know, my biochemistry course even talking about it in medical school.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: If we if we did it was minimal.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you're exactly right.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Same, same.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Liz, I want to ask you um again now about another ingredient, which is niacinamide.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is another huge one that we see come up again and again and again.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love for you to speak on that as well.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, similarly, if you could tell us all about niacinamide and why we want that for our skin and why that's such an important hero ingredient.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, and again, here's another one, right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, niacinamide's been used uh for a few years, and I love the fact that that people are paying attention to it now and that it's um that it's getting its due for the consumer.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it is a uh vitamin B3, and uh people, you know, people take uh B3 supplements orally, but it also has some really fantastic benefits uh for the skin.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um it helps to minimize redness and blotchiness on the skin, it helps to regulate oil.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's uh it helps to smooth the skin out so that discoloration, hyperpigmentation, all those types of discoloration on the skin are minimized.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: And it's very gentle on the skin.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's not aggressive, it won't cause redness, it won't cause irritation.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so it's it's really a fantastic ingredient.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, at that what uh you may have seen probably now seven or eight years ago, there was actually a good article in the New England Journal of Medicine about niacinamide and the reversal of actinic keratosis.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Really, very few things have ever been shown.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's orally, of course, but to do that.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it is a powerful one of the B vitamins.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for that reason, it's you know, the fact it's getting its just due, as Liz said.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really great point you made um about its use in something that's so, you know, an extreme case, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Of of something that's dermatological and it's a skin so many.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I actually, you know, I I can even uh boost that a little bit because I recently um, you know, I've heard about it's being it's being used in like actual uh neurosurgery research, you know, just vitamin B, uh especially B3.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this water solubility component of it, I mean, Liz, please correct me if I'm wrong.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's like a really great thing because it's able to go to places that we need it to go to, you know.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um certainly.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: So now niacinamide is one of them, and another one is vitamin C.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to also learn about vitamin C because I know that the industry is super buzzing about this ingredient.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I get it, you know, everyone wants that brightening effect, everyone wants that, they want their vitamin C, you know, but I really want to know from an ingredient standpoint, from a delivery standpoint, how important is it in our products?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, how important is it in the products that Reviv has created?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm gonna let Dr.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: Brown speak to vitamin C because passionate about it.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: A little bit about the science of it.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've had a vitamin C product uh on and off for 20 years, and you know, it's a very difficult molecule to deal with because for it to be active, if it gets oxidized, it loses its potency.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a weak alpha hydroxy acid, it's a strong antioxidant, and it's key for collagen.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: As you know, uh I'll always tell the story how you know sailors, when they were coming to the new world 500 years ago, often their old scars would open up.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason for that is collagen is dynamic, it's not a static structure, it's constantly being made and built, constantly being made and built.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: So if you don't have vitamin C, it can't be built.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason for that is vitamin C adds to the uh lysine hydrolase, which actually cross-links that big, huge triple helix protein that collagen is, like girders on a bridge.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't get those crosslinks, it's floppy and it falls apart.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, it is a great molecule, it's important, it's had several waves in the industry.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think probably 20 years ago there was a great deal of interest that kind of died away because it is so difficult to work with.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's come back.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: And Liz has done such a great job.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: We've had this last time we launched it, I think we had three attempts before we felt like we had it right, because you know it has to be anhydrous and um all of that for it to maintain its efficacy.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, Liz, you want to talk about our preparation a little bit?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, Doc um the formula we put together today, and like Dr.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: Brown said, it has to be in an anhydrous format.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you really want to use the purest version of vitamin C, there are several derivatives out there.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: People say it's vitamin C, but you know, it's it's a it's a weaker version of it, or it's encapsulated in something and it and it loses its efficacy.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, in order to maintain the true potency uh of this vitamin C, we had to isolate it from the other ingredients we wanted uh to add to the formula.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: The formula wasn't going to be just strictly vitamin C, but we also wanted to add our biorenewal technology that we spoke about earlier in the podcast, where we have ingredients that help to stimulate cell renewal as well.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Those are water-soluble ingredients.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't want to live with the vitamin C, so we had to put them actually in two separate chambers, the water-soluble uh ingredients, and then have the vitamin C in a separate chamber.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: They then come out together when you dispense them, and you quickly use them together on the skin so that the vitamin C doesn't have time to degrade with the water-soluble ingredients.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's an amazing formula.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: We are this was by far our our first amazing uh formula that we clinically tested where we had, no joke, about 100% scores.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: Consumers um saw a benefit quickly.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: They saw benefit over time, skin looked smoother, skin looked less um uh discolored, texture was more even.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was truly, truly a phenomenal um clinical test.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: And the, you know, the formula just is is really dynamite.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's the I love that you explained that to us, Liz.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, because honestly, that idea, what you just explained, which is this delivery, um, you know, come coming up with new and innovative ways to deliver ingredients, I think that needs to be like really thought about more in this industry.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that you described it, where it's it's a double barrel kind of thing, you're you know, that's very important.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think that's more important than all the buzz around people always saying, oh, we got another line that's now has stable vitamin C.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that doesn't mean anything to me.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: To me, I want to know if when it hits my skin, is it gonna do what it's supposed to do?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so yeah, so that's really cool to me.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a very, very innovative approach to, you know, um in combining ingredients.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it actually answers one question I do have, which is about the um the intermingling of ingredients.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um Liz and or Dr.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Ryan, who whoever um wants to answer that, I I really want to know what are some of the biggest challenges with that?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know that that must be very difficult from a formulation angle, making sure that the ingredients that you're using are not kind of canceling each other out or they're not, you know, uh competing with each other uh in terms of just you know being efficacious, being active.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so you know, any information you guys have about that.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what you answer.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's your that's your fault, Ark.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's sort of the world I live in on a daily basis.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's it's sort of like it's sort of like a party, you know, you have all these guests who come to the party and you really hope that they like each other, you know.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: You've spent all this time and energy coming up with this great menu and great drinks, and then you find out some of these guys don't like each other and half of them leave.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of what formulating is like.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: We have we we conceptualize our formulas literally on paper before we even discuss these with the lab.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: And then when the formulas get into the lab and the chemists start putting them together, are they water soluble?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Are they oil soluble?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: Are they gonna compete with each other?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Will one actually start to kick another one out and cause the formula instability?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: So we work with the chemists very early on in the program to discuss literally all of the active ingredients that we want to put in our formula.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: And we don't put ingredients in there just for the sake of putting them in there to tell a story.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: We put ingredients in our formulations at active levels to ensure that ultimately they're going to perform for the consumer.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um so so we make sure that as we're building the formula, we're checking the stability of the These formulas along the way.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't always work out.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be honest with you.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes formulas just crash.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's normal.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's called experimentation.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: You have to go through these experimentation phases in order to come up with a rock solid formula.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: And there are times when ingredients are not compatible and one will actually kick out.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's what that's a sort of a loose term we use when something causes instability.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, you've all seen products where you see that oil on the top or the emulsion breaks down and it kind of looks like cottage cheese.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't mean the formula is bad, but it means that there's an instability going on within the formula.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, formulations are extremely complicated.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I my my hope is one day that uh consumers will really get to appreciate uh the formulations.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: And when you look on a box and you see all of those ingredients and you realize that somebody, a chemist, has taken the time to combine all of those ingredients successfully and delivered an amazingly rich formulation, it's it's an art.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: RD is an art, I'll tell you that.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Liz, I just want to say I have such an appreciation for chemistry.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even be and I hear you when you say that.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's been so many, you know, incidents where people have told me, you know, well, whatever's on the back of the box, I don't know these ingredients.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even pronounce them.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's called organic chemistry.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you should learn how to pronounce them because that's science.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I completely hear you.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I'm on this journey with you.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's let's make chemistry understandable.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I actually, you know, just a side note, I published a kind of like an informatic thing a while ago about niacinamide, and I got so much critique because I put the actual chemical structure of niacinamide on my on the cover.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And people were like, Why the heck would you do that, Act?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And nobody cares what niacinamide looks like.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I care, and the chemists of this world care.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah, you know, yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to talk about Dr.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Brown, I really want to hear more about SPF from you because as we talked about in our last episode, I'm obsessed with your SPF 50, and I think a lot of us are.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I would like you to tell us a little bit about SPF and what your approach has been uh towards creating those kind of products.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I always say, and it's a little bit hackneyed, but the most important anti-aging cream anybody can have is a sunscreen.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I still believe that, you know, I'm of a certain age and I grew up fair skinned in the south, got lots of sun to treat my uh acne as a teenager, and I'm paying the price now.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, as you know, all the sun we get in a lifetime is cute, the damage is cumulative, it stays with you.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't stress enough to, and I do think young people are much more cognizant of sun exposure than I was when I was in my early 20s or teens when it really makes a difference.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we are the only luxury brand, we say this, and I'm almost sure that on all of our day creams, we have an SPF because Liz can attest to this.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: SPFs are not easy to make.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's problematic, it takes a long time, it's more expensive, all kinds of problems to get it just right and to make sure that you um pass certain FDA, since it is really an OTC, you pass certain uh you know, regulatory hurdles and all of that sort of thing.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh most of our day creams have an SPF 30.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Our sun's protection, our Soleil Superior, which is our actual sunscreen, um, has an SPF 50.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: As you know, probably going from a 30 to 50 only increases protection, maybe 5%.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: You can get 95% A and B ray protection with an SPF 30.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: And if you increase exponentially to 100, it doesn't make much difference.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: You'll see SPFs of 100, which I think is more marketing than anything.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I do believe, and we have launched for the first time an eye cream this year, which has um a physical sunscreen in it.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people, you know, want physical sunscreens instead of chemical sunscreens, even though there are some controversy over certain chemical sunscreens which we don't use, but still um physical sunscreens are getting better and better.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And Liz, you can comment on that.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I would love I I I would love to learn more about the physical versus the chemical sunscreen side of it, like Dr.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Brown mentioned.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, at the end of the day, sunscreen, whether it's uh an inorganic or an organic compound, uh a mineral or a chemical, it's designed to stop the sun, UVA and UVB rays from penetrating through the skin, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: The reason that our industry has been really has been using chemical filters for so long is really because aesthetically, up until just recently, um mineral SPFs really just weren't that nice to use.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's not that it's not that the industry didn't want to create mineral SPFs, it's that the raw material suppliers simply couldn't provide something that was aesthetically pleasing.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you I'm I'm quite fair, and I would put on a mineral sunscreen just a few years ago, and I had a very white cast.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: And you as skin tone gets deeper and deeper, that white cast turns gray, it turns ashy, and it's extremely visible.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: So if the if the objective was to have a sunscreen that you would use every day, who was gonna put that on their face?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, then you had to slather on a ton of makeup to cover it, and and it was uncomfortable.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: So fast forward over the last few years, um, zinc oxide and titanium dioxide manufacturers have really come a very long way in in creating small, small um pieces, small uh structures of these new minerals, uh zinc oxide and titanium dioxide that are really sheer now on the skin.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Look, it's not completely invisible, it can't be.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's like putting rocks on your face.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: But they're so sheer now that they're actually aesthetically really pleasing.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: You can put them in a formula, you can add moisturizers to the formula, you can add a little bit of pigment to the formula or or pearlescent to the formula, and the the net aesthetic effect to the consumer is stunning.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's really beautiful.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: And they're getting UVA and UVB protection, which is broad spectrum.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: So the chemical sunscreens are being a little bit left in the dust because there's not been a lot of change in our industry to those chemical filters.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: And if anything, there's been some controversy in the last few years, uh, as some research has been done, particularly with, for example, oxybenzone and octinoctate, which are two chemical filters that Hawaii has now banned in, excuse me, in the state, because they're bleaching the coral reefs.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Bleaching a coral reef ultimately could cause the death of that uh reef.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: So you know, there's some environmental concerns with some of the filters.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, there's rumors and speculation that down the road we may see changes to some of the other filters, chemical filters.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um but again, they are they are FDA approved.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's only a limited number because these are drugs, um, there's only so many filters you can use and combinations of filters that you can use.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: So, what we have today, while it may not be perfect, and um, you know, there are some environmental challenges with them, the the alternative to not using a sunscreen is potentially far, far worse.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, as Dr.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Brown said, it's so important for everybody every day to wear a sunscreen, whether it's a sunny day, a winter day, or a super beautiful fall day.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: We we really should be wearing SPF to protect ourselves, you know, from the ailments.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think that's that's really, you know, the it's very true.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Everything you said, and I'm not gonna lie, I'm not a huge fan of chemical SPFs.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I just don't feel like they're protecting me for some reason.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's how a lot of consumers feel, but like for me, it the mineral and the I I don't know, it's it is a heavy feel, but it it feels like something's on my skin that's a shield, you know.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas with chemical, I don't fully understand it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, you know.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe, maybe what you're you're interpreting literally the shield.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas with the chemical sunscreen, what it does is it actually absorbs into the skin.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very light, right?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it's completely invisible.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: It absorbs into the stratum corneum.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: And what happens is as those uh the UVA and UVB and infrared rays come onto the skin, they actually absorb into that top layer and are diffused, right?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: It creates it creates heat, but it but it diffuses those rays from penetrating further into the skin.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: With the mineral sunscreens, you're literally putting a physical block.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: Remember a couple of years ago, that was how they were characterized was physical sunscreens because they are physically blocking the sun's rays from penetrating into the skin at all.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's essentially like a like a mirror, it's bouncing off the skin uh so that they're not absorbing into the skin.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I and maybe it's that that physical feeling on your skin that you're interpreting as um, you know, working versus the chemical filter, which is truly invisible.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, and and I think you're absolutely right.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I had mentioned to Dr.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Brown on our last episode that I'm obsessed with the SPF 50 in the line, and which is uh for everyone listening, the uh the product, the way it looks, it's it's got a brown tint to the main bottle, and it's a beautiful product, and it's really, really like friendly for if you wear makeup, if you do anything with your skin other than skincare.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't even feel it on your skin, you know, and I love that product.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's it's one of the best sunscreen formulations I've ever come across because yeah, I mean, I I I hear you with the whole, you know, you feel it on your face, and so you feel protected, but I feel like with this product specifically, I can still have that same feeling, but not feel so weighed down, you know.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: So good, good, because it's a it's a fantastic formula.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's got a lot of anti-aging ingredients in there, plus the sunscreen at an SPF 50.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it smells delicious, um, it blends really evenly and smoothly as it goes on the skin.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a it's a home run.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Dr.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Brown, I do have one question for you.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of an overarching question.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important because as a medical professional and you know, a leader in the medical field, I really want to get your opinion about this.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of skincare brands can learn from your response is that this idea of, you know, it's really great to have skincare lines, right?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: But then to have that kind of checks and balances in place where we're considering the physiology, the pathophysiology, the other medical-related um subspecialties that we learn as doctors.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, you've learned, you know, through your practice, how does that work for you in terms of really balancing out your team and balancing out the efforts of review and making sure the products are, you know, they have this 360 approach.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you could uh give us some comments on that.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, sure.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: As a plastic surgeon, you know, a lot of skincare lines are if they're if their physician uh found that it's mostly dermatologists, there are a few plastic, but I I believe we were the first plastic surgery line that was um started.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the reasons I started, there were many, but I organically sort of backed into doing it out of burn research.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: But also from a clinical practice standpoint, as you know, um when I would do a blephroplasty, if I would take the puffiness out of somebody's lower lids, if the skin was not rehabilitated from where I took that, it wasn't 100%.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I think one of the things that we as humans want is other humans to react positively to us.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that means, I like to say it's a little trite, but that healthy dewy glow of youth.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times as we age, we lose that um dewy glow.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one reason our cells are not turning over more rapidly, and we get a dull lackluster appearance.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's important to have that.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that was still one of my major goals when I see a client that uses Rave, do they have a dewy glow?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think from a plastic surgeon standpoint, it's um, and I told somebody, a friend of mine that I was at dinner with the other night, it's such a reflex, and it's kind of a bad reflex.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: But when anybody walks in, I look at their face, I think what can and cannot be achieved, surgically at least, because you know, there are a lot of things people would come to my office and they would want certain ways they would look, maybe they would love want to look like Charlie's Theron or Brad Pitt.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, there are limits to what can be achieved, both with skincare and with surgery.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the two dovetailed very nicely.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: There, obviously, many things that only surgery can achieve that skincare can't.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a turkey gobbler warble, bags under the lids, jowling along the jawline, all of those things.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe there are brands that make claims to that, but in real reality, no.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, um, crapiness, lackluster skin, dull fatigue, gray-looking skin, surgery's not going to correct that, but Ravee and skincare can.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's um a little bit of a titration, and it depends on the individual.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Some people would never have surgery, it's abhorrent to them.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Other people, you know, are open to it.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think um it's an individualistic thing, and uh so it's it's multifactorial, but I do think the two together uh can give the best aesthetic results.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I always like to say, you know, the best way to age is just not to change over many decades.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you can look at certain celebrities, I'm not gonna name any, that have done that very gracefully, and it's a combination of skin care and judicious surgery.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: But then you see others that have, you know, sort of gone off the deep end and done too much of certainly surgery and injectables.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Injectables sort of changed all the landscape, I think.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, that's just my take.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's interesting how you said that, how you can tell um just by looking at someone's face, like what they need.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a really interesting viewpoint.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's why I asked you that question, because you know, as a surgeon, like, you know, I I think this is where a lot of uh I guess entrepreneurs they don't understand like the eye you have as a surgeon and having seen so many different faces and so many different situations.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a whole different take on just how the skin should be, right?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's asked to that because I was like, I'm sure that there's this wonderful overarching kind of checks and balances in place because I think that's what medicine is really there to do.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's so many subspecialties and sub-disciplines that need to come into the uh conversation when we're talking about a good skincare line.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why for me, Revive really stands out, you know, for everyone listening, because there's a beautiful balance here.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the chemistry is here, Dr.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Brown is here, you know.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's here.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lens is here.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's important, and that's very important, especially now because we are in an oversaturated market and everyone out with a line.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sorry, but at the end of the day, you're not gonna have that trained eye.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not every entrepreneur has that trained eye.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're investing in your skincare, and this is for all the listeners out there, please keep these things in mind, you know, and some of the principles that we've learned here from Dr.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Brown, from Liz, you know, it's important for us as consumers to know this stuff at this point, especially where we are now with the industry.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I just want to say thank you, uh, Dr.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Brown.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Liz, for your time.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a lovely um third episode.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope everyone listening, you guys enjoyed this masterclass.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have any questions at all, please reach out, leave them in the comment section.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: We'll pass them to uh Liz at Liz's team or Dr.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Brown's team and you know, and get some answers for you.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right, thank you.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 39:35
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