Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / New York Prosecutor Serves Prison Time: The Tara Lenich Story

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New York Prosecutor Serves Prison Time: The Tara Lenich Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:04
Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome to the Nightmare Success In and
0:07
Out podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
0:11
nightmares that set yourself free.
0:13
We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
0:15
Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
0:20
These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad.
0:23
There's some humor, but hopefully you can come away with
0:26
a nugget of something that'll help you knock down some of the
0:29
prisons you built up in your own mind.
0:33
All right. Welcome back.
0:34
Nightmare success. In-n-out Listers.
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This is where you come from. What happens when your worst
0:38
fear becomes your reality? How do you adapt, survive,
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overcome? Set yourself free, folks.
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Don't forget to follow. Subscribe, share this thing out.
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Like it up. It helps the show.
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Comment. It's all good.
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Really does help the show. So who are we talking to today
0:53
Who are we talking to today? Well, I've got Tara Lenich and
0:58
I've been I was just telling her I I've been looking forward to
1:01
this for a lot of reasons. She's, she's a really cool lady
1:07
and but the, the story is that she was a big time prosecutor in
1:14
New York and handled big cases and, and was known and, and then
1:21
she gets wrapped up in this case and she ends up doing almost a
1:25
year in federal prison. I find it fascinating when
1:29
somebody lives that world because it's one thing to get
1:33
wrapped up in the whole thing in the criminal legal system and
1:36
then go to prison. It's a whole nother thing.
1:39
If you were a prosecutor and you were living in that world and,
1:43
and people were being sent away and then you go in that world.
1:46
I, I just think it's incredible she has come out and, and I love
1:52
this too. She's taken all of the things
1:55
that she knows, being a criminal defense attorney or a
1:58
prosecutor, being someone who has, has been in that world and
2:02
also having a bad experience of people who were trying to help
2:05
her that she was paying when she was going in or while she was
2:09
in. And now she's created Liberty
2:11
Advisors, which she now walks families through all the things
2:17
they need to know and, and the emotions that they're feeling
2:20
and what they're going to do and how they're going to do it.
2:22
And, and it really walks them through the process of when they
2:25
get indicted until they come home.
2:28
So I, I just, I love everything about that.
2:30
I can't wait to get into it before we do.
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Tell them Brent from Nightmare Success sent you Tara.
3:12
Welcome, Anne. How are you?
3:14
I'm great. Thanks so much for having me,
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Brent. Well, we just had a great
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conversation. I think I say this on every
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show. I should be hitting the record
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button when we're sharing these stories back and forth.
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But I have really been looking forward to this.
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Tara, the other night, we, we are both members of the white
3:35
collar support group and Tara was sharing parts of her store
3:39
and I thought, gosh, I have got to reach out to her and, and see
3:42
if she would get on and, and share her story to the overall
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audience. And the great thing about this
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show is, is that we've got an overall audience and we go into
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1100 prisons in the United States.
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So I think the story goes both ways, just like your story is
3:59
Tara, take us back a little bit before you are Liberty advisors
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and you go and you're a prosecutor and all this.
4:07
Where'd you grow up, Mom, Dad. What was life like as Little
4:11
Tara? Well, I grew up in Worcester, MA
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and when I was about 12 we moved to Connecticut.
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So that was a big culture shock going from, you know, inner city
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Worcester to two acres owning and no streetlights.
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So I grew up playing tennis and soccer, volunteering with the
4:30
Key Club. I think that I did community
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service. I probably did 50 hours a month
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even all through high school. Community service was always big
4:38
in my family. And then I went to College in
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Maine, and I spent two years in DC lobbying and working for a
4:47
law firm. And then I went to law school
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for three years in Atlanta. I want to back up on the deal
4:53
with the community service. You said that that was something
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in your family because that's not really normal.
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I mean, for a kid, a teenager doesn't do you usually just say,
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well, you know what, it's Saturday morning.
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I think I'll do some community service.
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What what how where does that was your mom and dad like in in
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the community doing that and you.
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They did some, you know, they did some, and they always
5:15
encouraged me to be involved in the community.
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We did in Worcester before we moved to Wilton.
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And I think once we moved to Wilton, it was Connecticut.
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It was just, it's different because the needs are different.
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And So what we were necessarily doing it working in a soup
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kitchen in Worcester, Mass, didn't translate to Wilton, CT.
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It was different needs and so I joined Key Club, which is a
5:39
national organization in high school and I all four years
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served, you know, as the secretary, treasurer, vice
5:45
president and president of Key Club.
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I just really, I just liked helping people and finding the
5:51
need for it. It's just something I've always
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done. And, and in Connecticut we did
5:57
it through the Rotary Club. We would join them.
5:59
We would go volunteer at animal shelters there.
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The soup kitchens in Norwalk that we would go to.
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We would do just not in town. Wide clean up days where you
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would clean up, you know, trash, all sorts of different things.
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I just think it was something different other than just
6:15
playing sports and playing. Sports was was playing sports
6:20
something that was a big part of your life?
6:22
Absolutely. It's a huge and it's a huge part
6:24
of, you know, Connecticut where I lived was lacrosse was huge.
6:28
I didn't play lacrosse as a kid because I'd grown up, you know,
6:31
in Massachusetts. But I played soccer and tennis,
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and it was very everyone was very driven to succeed, whether
6:39
academically but also in sports. And a lot of kids from high
6:42
school got full scholarships to college based on sports.
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So yeah, I played tennis. And I think my, my three
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daughters played tennis and they, I, I miss it because I, I
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was, you know, that's one of those things.
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It's, it's, it's not a team sport.
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So when you're watching your kids out there, you know,
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they're playing 2, three sets or whatever it is.
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And, and, you know, my kids played in that Missouri Valley,
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which was 5 states. And, you know, we, we would go
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and kind of got to know everybody.
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But it, it's very competitive, Very, very competitive.
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But I, I think that also is something that gets in your
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bloodline to your bloodstream to be competitive and not get
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stopped with obstacles. I think sports is a good
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training ground for that next step of life's not easy.
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And, and I also think it's interesting, Tara, that this
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community service thing almost comes like full circle around to
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liberty advisors of what you're doing helping people.
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I know it's. Crazy.
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I mean, would you have ever have thought so when you got into
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when you got into college, were you thinking attorney?
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I'm going to be in in law. I'm going to.
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I mean, was that something that had already been planned out or
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was part of your development of what I'm going to do next?
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Yeah, I think I always thought I would go to law school.
8:12
I loved the idea of becoming a veterinarian, but I was terrible
8:15
at biology and, you know, chemistry.
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So that's out, you know? So, OK, what are you going to do
8:20
next? But my parents are like you
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argue with anyone. You should be a lawyer.
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You know, you always have to have the last word.
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So, you know, I think it just worked with my skill set too.
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I'm very much like a, you know, crisis management in in the mode
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of things, you know, I, I'm pretty intense that most things
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I do. And I think that also, you know,
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it was true with sports. And I agree with you.
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Like, sports really does help you, like, focus your brain in a
8:50
different way in your body. And so, yeah, I think I always
8:54
just knew I was going to go to law school.
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I was a government major, you know, at school.
8:58
Those were my favorite classes, although I did really enjoy my
9:02
English classes as well. Yeah, I kind of did.
9:05
I was political science and I liked English.
9:06
Yeah, yeah. What did you think of law
9:08
school? It wasn't very much.
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I mean, it was fun hanging out with new people, but it was, you
9:15
know, it was a very book heavy. They don't you know, you don't
9:19
study for the bar, right? So you just go and you take all
9:21
these theory classes. And I felt it was the same in
9:25
height in college is that I enjoy classes that are the
9:29
smaller size. So second and third year of law
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school was better. And I would say the same thing
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about college. So, you know, junior and senior
9:35
year are better because it's smaller, more intimate classes.
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Those big classes with a hundred 150 people, I don't get much out
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of them. You know, I I don't do as well
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because I kind of lose focus. Yeah, just drift off, yeah.
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Yeah, but I really enjoyed my seminars and like the classes.
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I I took a class actually crime in America, where we visited all
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the prisons in Georgia, Atlanta, like county jails, federal
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prisons, state prison. I know, so foreboding.
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Wow, Well, even, I mean, being able to go into a federal
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prison, they don't, you know, state prisons, they allow people
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to go in and out and do all that, but federal prison is more
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you just don't walk into federal prisons.
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They, they, it's, it's very you try to find pictures of the
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inside of federal prisons. It's really tough.
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I mean, I remember trying, I remember trying to look, what
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does the bathroom look like in a federal prison?
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Where am I going to be sleeping? I you can't hardly find it.
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No, it it is impossible. I thought the same thing about
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Danbury. I'm like, what it what does it
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even look like? Yeah.
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Right, right. So you get out of law school and
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then what? What was it?
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What was your step? So I, I got out of law school.
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I took the bar. I wasn't sure exactly.
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I had applied to do a couple different things, but I, I
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really wanted to do criminal law.
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I had interned at the US Attorney's office and I really
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liked criminal law, so I knew that's kind of where I wanted to
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be, but I wasn't sure really what the options are.
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I went to school down South, so moving back northeast, I knew I
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wanted to move home to the northeast, but I wasn't sure
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exactly what I wanted to do. I ended up applying to the DA's
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office in Brooklyn and Queens, and I got a phone call from
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Brooklyn and started working there in July 2005.
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I'd never been to Brooklyn until I started that job.
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What did you think, Tara? Because how?
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How old would you have been? So I was on my mid 20s, yeah.
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Yeah, and you thought, here I am, I'm at the Brooklyn office.
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I'm I'm. Yeah, it was DA it.
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You know, it's a lot because you don't study New York law in law
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school and your only experience with New York law is taking the
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New York bar examination, which you don't remember, you know,
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9/10 of what you studied, or at least I didn't.
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And so it was a real intense learning curve when you get
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there, just trying to learn the penal law and know what the
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crimes are and put the elements together of the crimes.
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And then what, what basically happens when you get arrested?
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You know, how do you explain that to the judge?
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How do you look at a bail argument?
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How do you make a bail argument? And those are real, the basics.
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So you spend time in the, well, you did that in the DA's office
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in that early assessment, early Case Assessment Bureau, where
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you really learn how to assess a case and learn what charges go
12:23
with what actions. So, Tara, I mean, I like in that
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kind of situation, like how does someone, because you became a
12:32
big deal? I mean, I, it's, I'm not, I'm
12:34
not just telling you that. I mean, you, you were a big
12:37
deal. You became a somebody that
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people talked about, you know, that you were a known
12:44
prosecutor. How does someone move up like
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that? Is it is, is it one big case and
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then they're like talking about terror?
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Or do you? Is it just a lot of grinding
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into the next? It's a lot of grinding and also
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it's different opportunities I think are what you make of it.
13:01
And I do think that's true with everything in life.
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And so I very early in the office got sent to the narcotics
13:08
Bureau. And so I learned about long term
13:12
investigations and writing search warrants and, and
13:16
probable cause and that whole gambit.
13:18
And then I went to a trial Bureau and learned to, you know,
13:21
do trial cases. Worked my way up there, became
13:25
actually a boss first in the trial Bureau of misdemeanor
13:28
cases. And so I had about 10 to 15
13:32
assistants at any one time underneath me.
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They were all doing misdemeanor trials and cases.
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And then I moved back to narcotics a couple of years
13:41
later and became a boss in narcotics and then started doing
13:47
long term investigations and narcotics, but as a boss.
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And I worked with some other great bosses who really wanted
13:53
to expand the program in the DA's office.
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And we're open to try new things.
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And we started, you know, doing, I would say narcotics
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trafficking cases versus like the, you know, the dime bag
14:06
buying bus cases on the side of the street and working closely
14:10
with the Police Department. And then a new DA was elected
14:14
and he created a new unit called the Violent crime, you know,
14:18
Enterprise Unit. And so we really then took on
14:22
gangs, guns and drugs. And so we did firearms
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trafficking, narcotics trafficking, got gang cases and
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I, yeah, I worked my way up to doing all of the special
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investigations for that unit. Yeah, it's so.
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It really was a long process. Yeah, it was over a decade so.
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It was over a decade and I was curious on reading all that
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about you was because a lot of times when somebody becomes that
14:48
known, they they jumped the fence and become the criminal
14:53
defense attorney. Did did you ever think that that
14:56
was where you were going to jump to or you were just loving that
15:00
part of what you knew how you did it and you were getting
15:02
better at it? I didn't think I would jump to
15:05
becoming a criminal defense attorney.
15:07
I loved being a prosecutor. I loved the investigation part
15:11
of it. That was really fascinating to
15:13
me and challenging, and I loved the fast pace of it, Yeah.
15:18
There's a lot of movies about it.
15:20
Yeah, that was something I really drived on.
15:23
I mean, there's a lot that goes on.
15:24
I mean, there's movie after movie of the stuff that you were
15:26
doing and then the investigations and the people
15:29
and the, and the undercover people and, and the informants
15:32
and the detectives and everything that goes on with it.
15:35
So I'm sure there was a lot for you to thrive on in that world.
15:41
Yeah, I think if anything, I thought I would go to like an
15:43
investigations firm and you know, like a security firm where
15:46
they do, you know, investigations.
15:48
That side of it was was I thought would be my next step,
15:53
but not just to becoming a defense attorney.
15:56
If I if I did go to defense, I would have seen myself more in
16:00
like a mid size to big firm. You know, I could never just
16:04
hang my hat out and shingle out that I think all God bless the
16:08
people that do that. But that's, you know, that's so
16:11
much pressure and so much work. And really coming from the DA's
16:14
office where it was a very collegial environment in some
16:18
ways where you could bounce ideas off of people.
16:20
I mean, I think I would have been terrified if you told me I
16:23
had to go try a case by myself on the defense side.
16:27
Well, let's let's jump into your your world is one that people
16:33
that are in your world working your way up to 10 years of this,
16:39
you have success. And as we all know, success can
16:43
also lead to a nightmare. How does it happen?
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When does it happen and when does it lead us through it?
16:53
I mean, I, I think I was just under so much pressure both
16:59
externally and internally that I couldn't come up for air.
17:06
I couldn't breathe. I was just grinding myself into
17:11
a place of basically no return. And I didn't ask for help, you
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know, and I think that's one of the key takeaways.
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If anyone's in one of these situations is like, ask for
17:21
help, go to people. I did, I did somewhat, you know,
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and I, I, at first I was like, but I did ask for help, but I
17:28
didn't scream it from the rooftops, right?
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I, I needed to say it to people like this is too much.
17:34
These are the reasons it's too much.
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And these, these are also all the other issues that are going
17:40
on and someone needs to help. I think when you're stuck in
17:43
that environment and you're a people pleaser, which I am, and
17:48
you are like, I can handle more. I can handle it.
17:50
Just keep dumping on me and dumping on me and I'll do it and
17:53
I'll do it and I'll do it. Well, the fact of the matter is
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you can't do it right. Nobody can do that.
17:57
At some point everybody is going to break and I broke, you know,
18:00
and that was, you know, I, I think part of it was a shock to
18:04
most people is everyone just thought, oh, she just does
18:07
everything right. Oh, you know, like she doesn't
18:09
complain. She doesn't.
18:10
We had no idea anything was going on.
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Well, you didn't have any idea because I kept everything
18:15
internalized right? And I just.
18:16
Wanted. Yeah, that that had to be a lot
18:20
to deal with. Or just because of who you were,
18:23
what you were doing and people thinking that you were Wonder
18:27
Woman. When when this all erupts, how
18:34
are you? How are you dealing with it?
18:36
I actually felt relief. You know, I have to say that was
18:39
my first emotion. I actually was like, take a deep
18:43
breath. And it's the craziest thing to
18:47
say. I mean, I still hear myself say
18:49
it. I'm like, and I still feel it.
18:51
I can still feel that deep breath sigh.
18:55
When I got arrested, it was like.
18:58
On the on getting arrested because I, I didn't get arrested
19:02
like, you know, I've interviewed so many people where you know,
19:04
they bring the people to the home and they 5:00 in the
19:08
morning. Were you surprised?
19:10
Were you, was it taken by surprise or how did it?
19:14
How did this come to you? I mean, yes and no.
19:17
I mean, obviously I knew I was doing something that I that I
19:20
shouldn't be doing and that was illegal.
19:22
So there's that. But I wasn't, I don't think I
19:26
was treated like we know a bunch of other people were either with
19:29
people come to the house. You know, I was in my office.
19:32
I went to work. They brought me upstairs.
19:34
They said this is the issue. And I was like, OK, can I call
19:38
an attorney? You know, I can I call my
19:39
family. That was really, it was, I don't
19:44
want to say pleasant because obviously it's never pleasant,
19:47
but it was not the same that a lot of people experience with
19:50
like guns drawn on their family in the middle of, you know, the
19:53
middle of the night or early morning.
19:54
I know I wrote search warrants. I know what, you know, like an
19:57
arrest warrant. So I know I understand that.
19:59
But you know, I called, I called some people, I got an attorney
20:06
and it was a state case at that point too.
20:08
So these are state charges. It was different.
20:11
I was arraigned. Unfortunately, there was someone
20:14
in the audience at the arraignment that decided to
20:16
like, live stream it on Facebook.
20:18
I'm like. I was curious, Tara, how?
20:23
Because the way I understood it, it was a forging of the of the
20:26
judge's signature or a wiretap. Why?
20:30
Why did that turn into a federal when it started as a state?
20:35
That's a good question. Well, it was a state case, so,
20:40
you know, it was going to be prosecuted by a different
20:42
borough. And then I was notified or my
20:45
attorney was notified that the feds were looking at the case
20:49
and they were going to take the case.
20:51
And I will tell you, when I got that phone call, then I almost
20:54
threw up. That was a different, you know,
20:56
to me, that's a very different situation having worked in, you
20:59
know, as a prosecutor. And I know the difference.
21:02
So to me, I was like, Oh my God, what do you mean?
21:05
They're taking the case like we have a disposition worked out
21:08
where I'm all good. Like I, I know how this is going
21:11
to end. And so then it was definitely
21:13
fear of the unknown. But immediately my first thing
21:16
was prison. OK, this equals prison, you
21:18
know? Exactly.
21:21
And you know, I know what those cases are like and I know what
21:24
it takes to fight them. So, and I know the seriousness
21:30
and I will say it's the amount of time is so different, how
21:36
cases are treated or so is so different.
21:40
And so for me, that was like the Oh my God moment, you know, so.
21:46
What did your people around you that you were close to?
21:50
What, How? How did how did that all evolve?
21:56
I mean, I don't think anyone that was close to me, and this
21:59
is part of why I do what I do now is I don't think anyone
22:02
close to me understood the difference as much as I did.
22:04
I mean, people that I meeting my friends and immediate family and
22:08
even some of my close friends that had worked at the DA's
22:11
office with me, you know, because unless you've done those
22:16
type of criminal cases and understand the difference of how
22:19
that seriously the feds take it, yes, it's a big scary word.
22:22
The feds have it, but it knowing in detail what they're going to
22:25
do with the case. I don't think anyone else was
22:28
afraid right away until they saw how afraid I was and then they
22:31
were like, Oh no, OK, this is a problem.
22:36
How long did the process take? So they, they bring you in, they
22:39
say, hey, we've, we've got you in this wiretap thing.
22:44
Here's the people that are involved.
22:48
Was your you and your attorney thinking that you would fight
22:51
this and go to trial or was an immediate mitigation situation
22:55
where? You, it was immediate
22:56
mitigation. You know, I I first of all, I
22:59
knew what the evidence was against me.
23:01
You know, I know what how to evaluate a case.
23:04
And so I was like, OK, good luck.
23:06
When do I plead guilty? Let's go like, let's just get
23:08
this done. Yeah, you know, immediately, you
23:12
know, I can do a sentencing guidelines calculation in
23:15
general, you know, like I know the steps of what it's going to
23:17
take. And so I was like, the sooner
23:19
that I get this started is the sooner I get it finished.
23:22
How long did that take when you started?
23:24
That still took a while, still took about two years.
23:28
It took two years you had to live through to get that to the
23:31
mitigation point. When it finally came down to you
23:37
that you had a plea deal, you knew you were going to go to
23:40
prison. I always think this is really
23:44
interesting for somebody who is on that other side.
23:46
What were your what were your thoughts on that?
23:49
Like what Because I asked you before we got started, were you
23:52
worried about your safety? Did they know that you were who
23:56
you were? Because, you know, a lot of
23:59
times people in prison know a whole lot more than you think
24:01
they do. And I shared with you, people
24:04
knew who I was because it was on the news.
24:06
So I hoped that they let me kind of live my world and get to know
24:12
me before they made a decision about what was on the news.
24:16
What happens, Tara, in your mind when?
24:18
I mean, I was nervous, yeah. I hired a a prison consultants
24:23
and then and I wanted to know exactly that, like how is it
24:28
going to be? At the same time, I always knew
24:30
like if, if they, if other people in prison don't hold it
24:34
against me, I, you know, I can get along with people.
24:37
I'm I'll be fine there. Me personally, I had two fears.
24:40
Am I going to get beat up? Am I going to get raped?
24:42
Right, That's all I wanted answered.
24:45
Like can you just tell me that? Get that out of the way.
24:49
Yeah, and pretty much the person I spoke to was like laughing at
24:53
me, Like, of course you're going to be fine.
24:55
And I was like, OK, well, that's a good response, you know,
24:57
right. Then, then I'll be OK.
25:01
And, you know, I had a really weird experience.
25:03
I got originally designated to West Virginia Alderson.
25:09
And then I showed up at West Virginia.
25:12
And when I got there with my best friend, they were like, oh,
25:15
no, you were designated months ago to go to Danbury instead.
25:19
And I was like, what? And they said, Oh yeah, you have
25:23
like till 2:00 PM to get there. I mean, that is a overall
25:27
nightmare all in itself. It was a total nightmare.
25:31
I was like, Oh my God, A federal awards.
25:34
How long, how far away was the West Virginia to the Danbury?
25:38
I mean 16 hours probably driving.
25:41
It took like plain streams and automobiles to get there.
25:46
I mean, the West Virginia Women's prison is out in the
25:48
middle of nowhere. I mean, did you?
25:49
Get the letter that said you were gonna because I got the
25:52
letter that said, you know, Leavenworth.
25:53
And I was like, oh man, I've heard Leavenworth.
25:55
It's in the movies. But did you?
25:59
You got the letter that said that and you showed up?
26:02
Well, my prison consultant got the letter.
26:05
It was my attorney. So this is my one of my big
26:07
things. There you go.
26:08
OK. The original letter and then I
26:11
guess got another letter and never told anyone that I had
26:15
been designated and that's awful.
26:19
I mean, it's awful because you have so much stress and unknowns
26:21
and everything that's going on and your immediate thing is I'm
26:25
going to get out of the car here.
26:26
I'm going to put on my big boy pants and act like I know that I
26:30
can handle this. And then they say, oh, by the
26:32
way, you're not even supposed to be here.
26:34
Exactly. And you're like standing with
26:35
your like baggie of approved items, right?
26:38
Of like your license and and I'm talking to the women coming out
26:41
like, how's it going to be? And the lady's like, I checked
26:44
and the guard says to me, OK, I checked again.
26:46
You're definitely not on our list.
26:48
I was like, OK. Tara, I've done 175 interviews.
26:52
I've never had anybody say that, that they just say, hey, by the
26:54
way, you're not supposed to be here.
26:56
You're up, you're up the street, 16 hours.
26:59
Can I go home then? Let let's take a break there
27:03
because I want when we get back, I want to talk about how it was
27:06
walking into that prison, how your strategies that you used
27:10
and, and more or less, you know what, what life was like for
27:16
Terra walking in before we do that.
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28:31
OK, Tara, so you get this crazy, crazy thing of you got 16 hours
28:36
to make it to another prison, you finally get there and
28:40
planes, trains, automobiles. Now what?
28:45
So I, you know, I get to Danbury, it's a very small
28:48
facility in, in the scheme of things, and I walk into R&D and
28:53
they had had 'cause this is my luck, a tornado the night before
28:59
in Connecticut. So it was kind of in disarray.
29:02
People were, you know, guards that were off shift were coming
29:05
in, you know, everyone kind of was congregating to see the
29:08
damage to the facilities. And so I just sat with them for
29:14
about 6 hours, you know, doing nothing but talking and which
29:20
was fine with me. Then I got fine.
29:23
I don't need to go anywhere. I'm.
29:24
Good. I'm fine just here, right?
29:26
Here Yeah. So I went in and I had talked to
29:32
people about you know, what do I say?
29:34
I do and they're like, well, you have to say you're an attorney
29:37
because people are going to find out anyways, you know, just keep
29:39
it vague, you know, but don't offer obviously legal advice
29:44
when you get in about something like, well, that's good because
29:46
I don't know anything about wells and trust so.
29:51
So I went in. I just said I was an attorney.
29:53
You know, I was very lucky. I had really a great bunkie in
29:58
the beginning and you know, made friends immediately and was
30:02
fine. Isn't that a crazy?
30:04
I mean, it makes all the difference in the world.
30:06
I I had in fact, that he was one of the second people I
30:10
interviewed on the show. Romo was he had he had worked
30:14
himself down from a medium and had been a shot caller, you
30:20
know, Texas homeboy. So he was, I would not have
30:25
thought that he would have immediately.
30:27
He was showing me how to make my bed military style.
30:29
He helped me clean out my locker.
30:31
He immediately introduced me to somebody that I found out was
30:35
went to my high school that was eight years older than me.
30:37
It's crazy, Tara, but all those things that I thought that I'm
30:41
going to get, when am I going to get raped first?
30:43
Will I get beaten up first? Within the hour I was like, Oh
30:47
well, these guys are going to help me out.
30:51
Absolutely. I mean, people stop by my first
30:54
15 minutes and we're like, oh, you need a coffee, you're going
30:56
to need a coffee mug or you're going to need this or you're
30:58
going to need that and you know, we'll get you an extra pillow.
31:01
And I was like, this is amazing. You know, you people really do
31:05
help you and they, you know, that's who you're going to rely
31:08
on for getting through every day anyways.
31:10
But they, they really do, you know, like, here's a toothbrush,
31:14
here's shower shoes, here's, you know, like all the things that
31:16
you need immediately. And it was just like a, I can't
31:19
describe it any other way than a giving environment.
31:22
People didn't know me, I hadn't even said hello and they're just
31:24
dropping stuff off. That's what just blew my And the
31:27
shower shoes thing, by the way, is very bad.
31:29
For those listening down the Cayman Islands, shower shoes in
31:32
prison are a must. And I didn't know that.
31:35
I never even heard that you needed shower shoes.
31:37
But my side monkey said, Cassidy, I got an extra pair.
31:42
You're going to need these. And I was like, oh, thanks.
31:45
And little did I know, yeah, sure do.
31:48
Absolutely. They're critical.
31:51
Critical in the process, but it's I I think for those
31:55
listening though are watching that that might been my biggest
32:03
like surprise of anything with prison was is within an hour.
32:07
Everybody was so helpful to me and I, I guess it was too.
32:10
And you and I talked about this terror beforehand.
32:14
People were in a primitive environment, but they're living
32:17
there. I mean, some are living there
32:18
for years. And you know, as long as you're
32:22
respectful and, and try to get along with people, they'll try
32:26
to get along with you. If you try to cause trouble for
32:28
people just like on the outside, then you'll have trouble on the
32:30
inside. It's it's not that.
32:33
Much different. It's just, it's just more
32:34
primitive. It's more primitive.
32:36
Nobody goes anywhere. Everybody's right there.
32:38
No, but it's true. It's if anything, like, you
32:41
know, a, a pressure cooker of, you know, you're kind of in a
32:45
pressure curve there and that you can't walk away too far,
32:47
right? There's only so far you can, you
32:49
can get away. But everyone, if you get along
32:53
with people, they, they will get along with you.
32:56
There is no need to, you know, if you instigate something,
33:00
well, you're, you're going to face consequences.
33:02
But that's the true everywhere in life, you know?
33:04
So if you can just be a normal human being and treat people
33:07
with decency and respect and use your common sense, you're going
33:12
to be. Fine.
33:13
It's like one of the guys that had gone to prison that I was
33:17
talking to before, he said, well, you don't want to owe
33:18
anybody money on gambling and you don't get, you know, if you
33:21
get into drugs. And I'm thinking, well, I'm not
33:23
going to do any of that. I'm not going to do any of that.
33:26
It's not going to be something we're going to do.
33:29
Do that on the outside. So Tara, you get it.
33:34
What's your world like? So you get set up.
33:37
People are nice to you. You are.
33:41
In a world that you never thought you'd be in.
33:45
I mean, I was lucky, so I went in May and so the outside, you
33:49
know, I think having access to the outside really saved me.
33:54
And at Danbury, there was so much outside space where you
33:58
could go walk on the track, you could be outside reading
34:00
magazines and books. And I really think just for me,
34:05
having that fresh air and sunshine and being there in good
34:09
weather in the beginning really, really made a difference.
34:12
You know, for me, I think if I had gone there in the winter, I
34:17
would have maybe had a a tougher time, you know, because you're
34:22
locked inside in this. I mean, not locked, but you're
34:24
inside in this small environment.
34:27
And I will say, like I, I wanted a job right away.
34:29
I was just like, keep busy. If I keep busy, I'll be, I'll be
34:33
fine. The time will go faster.
34:35
So I worked first in the education department and I
34:39
worked in the, the regular library, the leisure library,
34:43
you know, which was fine, but kind of boring.
34:46
And so then I started teaching women, you know, GED and making
34:52
sure that they got their GED and doing tutoring.
34:55
And so that was rewarding. I think that's a big tip too for
34:59
those listening. They're thinking that they're
35:01
going into prison is try to stay plugged in to keep your mind
35:05
active. You just shared three things
35:08
there to being outside, exercising, reading and having a
35:12
good job. All those things I think are
35:16
almost essential to keep you being you.
35:19
You don't turn into prison terror or prison, Brett.
35:22
You keep feeling like yourself. You know it's it's.
35:25
Absolutely. You know, I enjoyed my job,
35:29
being able to go to the food warehouse and you know, I'd
35:32
learned things I'd never would ever learn in my whole life.
35:35
You know, learning how to drive a forklift.
35:38
And I got pretty good at it too. I got actually pretty good at
35:41
driving a forklift. Drove that big truck with the
35:44
food and I could back. Up with the mirrors, Yeah, that
35:47
was. Yeah, I think that's a good tip
35:50
though, Tara, what you said. I think it's really important,
35:54
like if you don't stay busy and you just let the time do you
35:58
instead of you doing the time, I just think that you're going to
36:01
have a much better, more positive outcome.
36:04
And so I got bored. You know, even it's boring.
36:07
I will say that's one of the worst things is the boredom.
36:10
So I joined the construction crew and learned construction.
36:13
I can like set it right now and and concrete and I can paint
36:19
kind of. But but again, it's like trying
36:24
new things, staying involved in classes.
36:26
You know, I took all the classes.
36:28
I took regular yoga, chair yoga. I was like, just give me
36:32
something to do. Yeah.
36:34
And I read 80 books, you know, I read 80 books.
36:37
I read magazines all the time. And I, I learned.
36:40
I of course, had to learn to crochet because everybody has to
36:42
learn to knit or crochet. You know, I'm not.
36:46
I didn't really make anything but learn.
36:49
How to do it? Yeah, but I it's again just
36:51
using your mind in a different way and occupying your time
36:55
isn't as much as you can. Which is probably a good tip for
36:59
anybody, whether you're in prison or out.
37:02
Exactly. Keep engaged, keep engaged.
37:04
Otherwise you'll go snail. So when you start getting like
37:10
with your family and stuff, did you get visits?
37:11
Was that kind of part of your routine too?
37:14
Yeah. Yes, yeah, I, I definitely, my
37:17
family came all the time. I had friends come, you know,
37:20
from states away. I was very lucky.
37:22
I always had visitors and that's one of the things I also noticed
37:26
there when I was at Danbury is like some people never had
37:30
visitors, you know, some people never got that interaction and
37:33
nice. That is something to be really
37:36
thankful for and grateful for is that you have people that are in
37:41
your corner that are willing to take the time to come visit you
37:43
because that's not easy for people either.
37:45
You know, they've got to come and like subject themselves to
37:48
the conditions, you know, and like that they're willing to
37:51
take those efforts and to support you is really.
37:55
Means a. Lot.
37:56
It really does mean a lot. And, and you're so right about
37:59
Tara, the I think we had 430 people at Leavenworth and
38:06
probably anywhere from 20 to 40 got visits.
38:09
You know, that's a small percentage of people that would
38:14
would. Have, I mean, I think there were
38:17
people that never had a visitor, you know, you know, or got
38:21
letters, you know, or got mail, you know, I got mail every,
38:25
almost every single day. And people would make fun of me
38:27
because like they're like, of course Tara's mail, you know,
38:32
and I, but I would say to people like, send me books, send me the
38:35
magazines. But like, you know, I had like a
38:38
friend's dad that would send me 10 cards a week, every single
38:42
week that I was there. You know, I think he like bought
38:44
out Hallmark, you know, so it really, I have them all.
38:51
You know, I saved them and I sent them home because I think
38:53
that that is something that that is something I look back on.
38:57
It really means something to you.
38:59
And those people that spent the time and effort supporting you
39:02
is something that I'll never forget.
39:05
So a big time prosecuting attorney gets close to getting
39:10
out and then there's a feeling that happens about 3 or 4 months
39:14
before that. What are what are you thinking
39:17
as far as the whole re entry thing, getting back into the
39:20
community and being the new Terra?
39:23
Yeah, I wasn't. I mean, I had a place to go,
39:25
right? So I'm not in this.
39:26
I wasn't in the same boat that a lot of people like have no idea
39:28
where they're going to live and that I can't imagine the stress
39:31
of that because that's just a whole another level of stress.
39:35
But it is stressful because obviously I can't go back to
39:38
what I did. I, you know, my license was
39:41
suspended from law. And so do you know what are my
39:44
next steps? I actually thought.
39:45
About Tara, I meant to ask you when all this happened that that
39:49
legal community of yours is is one that you know, they're like
39:53
you said, it's colleagues. Did you have people that stayed
39:56
with you on that journey that you went forward or was it like
40:00
you went alone and that? That whole world of yours is
40:04
there, and you were over here. Yeah, no, I, I mean, I was very
40:09
lucky. I think I lost one friend.
40:11
There were people. No one from the DA's office or
40:14
the NYPD was allowed to really reach out to me because there
40:16
was ongoing, you know, the criminal case and then also a
40:20
civil matter. And so I couldn't have real
40:22
contact with them. But I will say the defense bar
40:24
in New York was so supportive of me.
40:26
I got so many text messages and emails and, and phone calls,
40:31
just like, hey, we're thinking of you checking in.
40:34
You know, I had no, no social media presence before that.
40:37
So it wasn't like I could connect with people on, you
40:40
know, Facebook. And actually I'm thankful for
40:41
that. But I didn't let that run my
40:44
life, you know, social media that it really was, I talked to
40:47
someone, you know, or emailed with them or saw them in person.
40:52
And then all my friends that had left the DA's office pre prior
40:56
to me living there were also very supportive.
40:58
I mean, I really, I didn't have, I had one person that was like I
41:03
never talked to again. But other than that, you know, I
41:05
still have all the same friends that I did beforehand.
41:08
And and same with my family, like they were very, very
41:12
supportive. That's a big deal.
41:14
It's a huge deal, yeah. It is so you have this as we all
41:20
do when we get close to the door getting out.
41:23
What are you thinking? Like how, what's your or did you
41:27
have a plan of what you thought you were going to do?
41:31
I would say I had a couple plans, right?
41:33
I knew I wanted to do Liberty Advisors.
41:37
I had actually called my family. They had registered the name
41:39
with the state already, you know, and I put it, put my dad
41:42
and my names on it so that, you know, I could hold the name with
41:46
the state name. By the way, thank you.
41:48
Great name. I thought about it for nine
41:50
months, but you know, like, while you're there, what else
41:55
are you going to do? So I started making this plan
41:57
like, what do I want to do? I don't want to send someone to
41:59
the wrong, you know, to have them end up in West Virginia.
42:02
Like that was going back to and how could I have helped my
42:06
family and friends? Like, even though they know
42:09
about the criminal justice system, no one knew it like I
42:11
knew it, you know, so they they would know what they see on like
42:14
law and order or, you know, something else on TV.
42:18
And so I really wanted to help the women that I was there with,
42:24
for instance, I helped them while I was there.
42:26
You know, I helped them and their families reconnect.
42:28
I would help people when they got out, right after I got out.
42:31
I had two of my friends get out within four months after I got
42:34
out. But I didn't have post release
42:35
supervision. So I didn't have any
42:37
restrictions on me. I could help people right away.
42:40
Like, OK, where you're going to go, How is it at the halfway
42:43
house? Like make sure you're going to
42:44
get, you know, check off these boxes because again, I could use
42:48
what I knew from my prior life as a prosecutor and the as the
42:53
system, you know, and to help people.
42:56
And I do think that gave me purpose, right when I got out.
43:01
I didn't know if it would really stick or not.
43:03
I also thought maybe I'd be a dog trainer.
43:04
I love dogs. You know, like me.
43:08
Too, so I was like, well let's see you know I love hanging out
43:11
with dogs they. Actually had dog training after
43:15
I left Leavenworth of I don't know if it's still going on, but
43:18
they they actually brought that into the prison about six months
43:22
after I left. And I don't know if it's still
43:23
going on, but I know that in certain prisons there is dog
43:26
training. Me too.
43:27
And I, I was hoping they would have that at Danbury, but they
43:29
didn't. They did have it years before I
43:31
got there, but they didn't have it, you know.
43:33
But I do think that's such a worthwhile program.
43:36
It's good for both sides. Exactly.
43:38
Total win for everybody. Absolutely.
43:41
You you were saying, Tara, when before we got on or hit the
43:46
record button, you were talking about that.
43:49
You really kind of assumed that you they just thought you were
43:52
an attorney, but the O GS pulled you aside on the day, the last
43:57
day you were there when everybody's, you know, saying
43:58
goodbye and whatever this and they they said, Hey, we know.
44:02
Yeah, exactly. But oh, by the way, we knew.
44:04
I'm like, Oh my God. The whole time.
44:08
And so, and that's the thing, like they knew they let me put
44:10
on the 1st that I was just an attorney, but they were like,
44:13
you were very nice and you helped everyone and you helped
44:16
when you could. And I actually ran a mock trial
44:20
class with another, you know, former attorney in there.
44:23
And we had a federal judge come and she, you know, went through
44:27
the mock trial and, you know, raided everyone and gave
44:29
feedback and it was pretty amazing.
44:31
Wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait.
44:32
You had a federal judge come into the prison and you had a
44:36
mock trial in the prison. Wow, that's crazy.
44:39
Yeah, it was really crazy. And, you know, it was another
44:42
woman that I was there with. Brilliant.
44:45
And she'd got, you know, she was like, I think this is a great
44:47
idea. She had been working on it, you
44:49
know, trying to get the pieces together long before I got
44:52
there. And so she's like, would you be
44:53
willing to take one side? And I was like, sure.
44:56
So like she coached one side and I coached the other and it, you
44:59
know, it was just, it's just another thing, right?
45:02
That you're, I have experience in this.
45:04
Let's do it. It's interesting and it helps me
45:06
do my time and fill it up. So, yeah.
45:11
But they, I mean this, yeah, everybody knew.
45:14
What do you think, Taro, after you got out because you you had
45:20
a place to go and and you had kind of a plan.
45:22
What do you think was the toughest thing about re entry?
45:28
I think really starting over, like getting a business up and
45:31
running and making money. I had that pressure of like, how
45:34
am I going to make money doing this?
45:36
And like, where does that come from and how long is it going to
45:38
take? And, and it's not even the three
45:42
to five year plan. It was like the day-to-day of
45:45
that, like, Oh my God, I had really now have to start over
45:48
and make money, you know? And so I think that to me was
45:52
stressful. Yeah, yeah.
45:55
Well, it is because I mean, you're, you're, you're starting
45:58
over, you know, for, for, for many of us that had careers, you
46:03
know, you're basically back to where you were getting out of
46:05
college and saying, OK, but now, you know, you're older.
46:08
So you, you just got to figure it out.
46:11
Which you have which and Liberty advisors has been going on, I
46:18
think. Would you say how many years
46:19
now? Well, I yeah, about to, yeah.
46:23
I mean, I registered the company right when I got out, but then
46:25
code between COVID and I didn't really know anything.
46:28
So I had to educate myself on running a business and building
46:32
a website and all that stuff. So I really have been going
46:34
about two years now. Which is great.
46:36
And I, I think that, you know, for those, and there's so many
46:42
people that almost everybody has no idea what and how this all
46:50
unfolds when, when especially on the, I think there's a lot of
46:54
different things that from the state level where, and that's
46:57
where most people are indicted. But on the federal level,
47:02
there's a whole nother world and the fact that you can walk
47:05
people through both because you you have the state experience of
47:09
being a prosecutor and, and how that world world works.
47:12
And then you actually entered the federal system as you know,
47:15
the United States of America versus terror, which is always
47:18
very, very intimidating to anybody who sees that on a piece
47:21
of paper. What do you think's your biggest
47:24
take away through all of it? Well, for me personally, my
47:29
biggest take away is ask for help, right?
47:31
If you, if you're in this type of situation, it's lean on
47:36
people don't think you can take it all on yourself.
47:38
But that's, that's my personal case.
47:40
I think another big take away is the federal system is to me so
47:49
extreme compared to the state, you know, and depending on I
47:54
guess where you are, because that also it's regional, it's
47:57
it's state based because in Connecticut versus New York, the
48:00
same crime might be a different amount of time.
48:02
But when you're facing federal charges, just the
48:05
overwhelmingness of the federal government and trying to
48:12
minimize that feeling to me is really important.
48:16
And that's why I really like to help people is because just
48:19
knowing some of it can take away some of the stress.
48:22
The more that you, the more knowledge you have and the more
48:25
preparation you have can reduce that stress level.
48:28
It's not going away. Don't go no, but it no.
48:31
But I always like to say nothing as bad as your mind makes it out
48:34
to be, the unknown is the real, real fear.
48:37
Once you even get bad news on this stuff, you can at least
48:40
start dealing with it. And I think that's the the
48:44
thing, Tara, that you can provide people is the unknown.
48:47
You can kind of knock it down. You can, kind of.
48:49
And also just having someone there, you know, like, so I, I
48:53
go to a lot of the guilty, my clients guilty pleas and
48:56
sentencings, you know, and sit with them and just talk to them
48:59
and just have someone that you can, they can reach out to so
49:02
they're not burdening their family or their family can ask
49:05
me questions, you know, so they're not stressing out the
49:08
person, you know, that's facing the federal charges.
49:11
They can call me and say like, Hey, what's this going to be
49:13
like? All right, we're going to do
49:14
this and then we're going to take these steps and honestly,
49:17
just giving them steps to follow helps them, you know, in my.
49:21
Almost like you're checking off boxes and it makes you feel
49:24
better, yeah. Exactly, exactly.
49:26
And I just, I think in that way, I can help alleviate stress for
49:31
both the person going through it, but also their loved ones
49:34
because they, they have a person that's safe to call that person.
49:38
You know, I can answer the calls.
49:39
I can't give you legal advice, but I can give you all the
49:41
emotional and support and and guidance and knowledge of the
49:45
system. Yeah, for people to get a hold
49:48
of you, Tara, you want to give out your your websites Liberty
49:52
Advisors, is it LLC or just Liberty Advisors?
49:56
LLC. Liberty Advisors, LLC and then
49:59
your you want to give out your. My e-mail
50:02
yesitstaratara@libertyadvisorsllc.com. Reach out to her, she can help.
50:11
Speaking of gratitude stuff, I want to thank Homestead
50:13
Financial Home Mortgage that lets me use all this fancy
50:16
equipment in here that I really don't know how to use, but I
50:19
appreciate it. And if you need home mortgage
50:23
out there, Greg Aftiev is your guy.
50:25
He knows all about all that stuff.
50:27
If you're looking for a book, I've got one.
50:29
It's a nightmare succession. Get it at Amazon, Barnes and
50:34
Noble. If you got time, please leave a
50:36
review on Apple or anywhere. Love it.
50:39
If you want to know more about me, brentcassidy.com, I spell it
50:42
wrong. I spell it with ATY, not a DY.
50:45
And as I used to say to my people, I was, I was writing my
50:48
emails back and forth from Leavenworth.
50:50
Stay strong, I'll do the same. Tara, thanks so much for sharing
50:56
your story. Appreciate it.
50:57
Lots of Nuggets of wisdom there. Thank you so much for having me.
51:01
I'm your success in and out.