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Bengals Booth Podcast: I'll Take You There · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Hord and thanks for downloading
0:06
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast. The I'll take you their addition
0:11
Speaker 1: as we head to Indianapolis for the NFL Scouting Combine.
0:15
Speaker 1: Coming up, you'll hear from three outstanding guests, Red co
0:20
Speaker 1: Sell from NFL Films, NFL Network insider, Ian Rappaport, and
0:25
Speaker 1: Dane Brugler, NFL draft expert for the Athletic. The Bengals
0:30
Speaker 1: Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Core, Proud
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Speaker 1: and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health,
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Speaker 1: the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's a
0:52
Speaker 1: quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of
0:55
Speaker 1: this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer
0:59
Speaker 1: by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest
1:03
Speaker 1: thing since Peter King. This past Monday and his weekly
1:07
Speaker 1: Football Morning in America column, Peter King announced that he's
1:11
Speaker 1: retiring after covering the NFL for forty four years. It's
1:15
Speaker 1: worth noting that he got his start covering the Bengals
1:18
Speaker 1: for the Cincinnati Inquirer. I've been a fan of his
1:21
Speaker 1: for ages, and when I got the Bengals play by
1:24
Speaker 1: play job, I made it a point to try to
1:26
Speaker 1: talk with Peter whenever he was around the team. In
1:29
Speaker 1: one of our first conversations, Peter learned that I used
1:33
Speaker 1: to be the radio announcer for the Patucket Red Sox,
1:36
Speaker 1: Boston's Triple A team at that time, and he began
1:39
Speaker 1: peppering me with questions how long were the bus rides? Well,
1:44
Speaker 1: were Dustin PEDROI and John Lester like at that age?
1:47
Speaker 1: The questions kept coming, and I realized that's what makes
1:51
Speaker 1: Peter so great, his unquenchable curiosity and attention to detail.
1:57
Speaker 1: There has never been a better sp reporter. Monday mornings
2:02
Speaker 1: aren't going to be quite as enjoyable for us, but
2:04
Speaker 1: I'm happy they are going to be a lot more
2:06
Speaker 1: relaxing for Peter King. Now let's get to the scouting combine.
2:12
Speaker 1: It's become the unofficial start of the upcoming NFL season,
2:16
Speaker 1: as front office execs, coaches, scouts, and media to send
2:20
Speaker 1: on Indianapolis to get a first hand look at this
2:23
Speaker 1: year's draft prospects, and discuss possible moves in free agency.
2:28
Speaker 1: One person I always look forward to talking to is
2:30
Speaker 1: Greg Cosel from NFL Films and the ESPN Matchup Show.
2:35
Speaker 1: He's been covering the NFL for more than four decades. Greg,
2:40
Speaker 1: let's start with some of the hottest topics among Bengals fans.
2:44
Speaker 1: Top of the list, T Higgins. They have franchise tagged him.
2:47
Speaker 1: They're going to have him for at least one more
2:50
Speaker 1: year with the likelihood of losing Tyler Boyd. Was paying
2:55
Speaker 1: tea the right thing to do in your opinion?
2:58
Speaker 2: I really like Tyler Boyd, but I think it's more
3:01
Speaker 2: important to have T.
3:02
Speaker 3: Higgins than Tyler Boyd.
3:03
Speaker 2: And I'm not suggesting that you can just pull a
3:05
Speaker 2: slot receiver out of the sky, but I think it's
3:08
Speaker 2: a position that you can find someone in the context
3:11
Speaker 2: of that offense more so than you can find to
3:14
Speaker 2: T Higgins. T Higgins is six three two fifteen. He's
3:18
Speaker 2: a vertical dimension. He runs those in breaking routes really well.
3:23
Speaker 2: People take those inbreaking routes in traffic for granted, you know,
3:26
Speaker 2: because borrow's are really a borrow turns the ball loose.
3:28
Speaker 2: He's got no problem turning a loose. And those inbreaking
3:31
Speaker 2: routes in traffic, you know those Not every receiver will
3:35
Speaker 2: do that, and I think you can't take those for granted.
3:38
Speaker 2: So T Higgins was a player. I really like Ronicky Manaclemson.
3:42
Speaker 2: He's had a really good career. Obviously he's been injured
3:44
Speaker 2: a little bit here and there, but I think he's
3:48
Speaker 2: if you had to choose one, and teams have to
3:50
Speaker 2: make these kinds of choices, as you know, Dan, they
3:52
Speaker 2: have to make these kinds of choices, I think T
3:55
Speaker 2: Higgins is a more valuable asset overall than Tyler Boyd,
3:59
Speaker 2: that he's less replaceable.
4:02
Speaker 1: Is spending twenty point six million dollars on T Higgins
4:06
Speaker 1: the best use of that money to try to keep
4:08
Speaker 1: the band together, so to speak, for another year.
4:11
Speaker 2: Well, now that gets into a lot of questions that
4:13
Speaker 2: I don't have the answer to because of how they
4:15
Speaker 2: the cap and how they structure and work their cap.
4:18
Speaker 2: I know the cap went up significantly, so I don't
4:21
Speaker 2: know how all that works. I will say this, I
4:24
Speaker 2: think that when you have a great quarterback, and I
4:27
Speaker 2: don't use the word great loosely, and Joe Burrow is
4:29
Speaker 2: a great quarterback. You do not want to leave him
4:32
Speaker 2: bereft of weapons. I always think that, you know, we
4:36
Speaker 2: all know you want a good old line.
4:37
Speaker 3: We get all that. I mean, that's a given.
4:39
Speaker 2: But I do not think when you have a really
4:41
Speaker 2: great quarterback, a high level quarterback, that you do not
4:45
Speaker 2: want to leave him bereft of what, particularly a quarterback
4:48
Speaker 2: that is aggressive throwing the ball versus one on one coverage.
4:52
Speaker 2: That's one thing we've seen with Joe Burrow. When it's
4:54
Speaker 2: one on one, he's going to throw it, and that's
4:57
Speaker 2: just innate. He's he's gonna throw it. And you need
5:00
Speaker 2: receivers who can win one on one and win in
5:04
Speaker 2: multiple ways. You know, Chase is an explosive guy. He
5:07
Speaker 2: can make contested catches, but he's such an explosive mover
5:10
Speaker 2: and route runner. Higgins not as explosive, but big and
5:14
Speaker 2: he'll go up and get it. And you know, I
5:17
Speaker 2: think that receivers become really important. You do not want
5:19
Speaker 2: to leave the cupboard bear when you have a quarterback
5:22
Speaker 2: like Joe Burrow.
5:24
Speaker 1: Let's move to tight end. I know you've studied brock Bowers.
5:28
Speaker 1: If you surveyed one hundred Bengals fans. He would probably
5:31
Speaker 1: be the fantasy draft pick for most of them. We
5:34
Speaker 1: don't know if he'll be there at number eighteen. It's
5:36
Speaker 1: probably unlikely. But how good is Brock Bowers?
5:41
Speaker 2: I mean, Brock Bowers on tape is really really good.
5:43
Speaker 2: He moves like a wide receiver. He in some ways
5:46
Speaker 2: is a wide receiver. Although I will say this because
5:48
Speaker 2: Georgia does run more of a conventional NFL type offense
5:52
Speaker 2: with a kind of a conventional run game.
5:55
Speaker 3: He does work to block.
5:57
Speaker 2: I mean, he's obviously not the best block tight end,
6:00
Speaker 2: but he he gives effort and he works at it.
6:03
Speaker 2: And I remember having a conversation years ago with a
6:06
Speaker 2: coach who was on the chief Skansas City Chiefs when
6:08
Speaker 2: Tony Gonzalez came up, and he was a great athlete,
6:11
Speaker 2: played basketball, you know, a receiver, and they said he
6:14
Speaker 2: was not a good blocker, but they said he worked
6:16
Speaker 2: at it, and as long as you work at it.
6:20
Speaker 3: You can be more than functional.
6:22
Speaker 2: And Bowers is that guy. He can be more than
6:24
Speaker 2: functional as a blocker. Of course, it depends how you
6:26
Speaker 2: deploy him. But he is a really good receiver. The
6:30
Speaker 2: issue is, and we've seen this with other athletic tight ends.
6:35
Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like teams struggle with how to deploy
6:40
Speaker 2: those guys within the context of their offense. And one
6:43
Speaker 2: coach was saying that, you know, you look, Atlanta sort
6:46
Speaker 2: of had a difficult time figuring out Kyle Pitts exactly
6:49
Speaker 2: how to use him, really athletic tight end who I
6:52
Speaker 2: believe was the fourth pick in the draft. I mean, sometimes,
6:55
Speaker 2: you know, we know that obviously the Chiefs Hughes Kelsey
6:58
Speaker 2: have used him really well, but some coaches it's kind
7:02
Speaker 2: of a balancing act of how do you use those guys?
7:04
Speaker 2: But Bowers is phenomenal, looks like a wide receiver, moves
7:09
Speaker 2: like a wide receiver, ridiculously good run after catch, balance,
7:13
Speaker 2: body control. I mean, guy looks like a ballerina.
7:16
Speaker 3: Sometimes.
7:17
Speaker 1: The Bengals typically have not relied heavily on their tight
7:21
Speaker 1: end during the Zach Taylor, Joe Burrow era. They've had
7:24
Speaker 1: solid production cj Uzama, Hayden Hurst, even Tanner Hudson gave
7:29
Speaker 1: them some decent production this past season. Is that a
7:32
Speaker 1: position that they should be looking to get more out of.
7:36
Speaker 2: Well, there's so many targets to go around, that's the problem.
7:40
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, for the last three years or so,
7:42
Speaker 2: I mean with Burrow, they've had Higgins, Chase and Boyd.
7:47
Speaker 2: I mean it's easy to say, throw the ball to
7:50
Speaker 2: the tight end more, but then someone else is not
7:53
Speaker 2: getting the ball. So that gets into the whole process
7:56
Speaker 2: of how they structure their offense methodology. You know, what's
7:59
Speaker 2: the approach coach, Then what's the approach then in a
8:02
Speaker 2: given week against a given opponent. You know, I think
8:04
Speaker 2: it's easy to look at a number on a page
8:06
Speaker 2: and see targets go, well, they got to use a
8:07
Speaker 2: tight end more.
8:08
Speaker 3: But there's only so many balls to go around.
8:11
Speaker 2: So if they lose Boyd and maybe they feel they
8:14
Speaker 2: don't have the same quality slot this year, then maybe
8:17
Speaker 2: the tight end, whoever it turns out to be, would
8:19
Speaker 2: become a bigger factor. But when you've got three wide
8:22
Speaker 2: outs like that, you know, imagine if all of a
8:25
Speaker 2: sudden they were throwing the ball. I mean fans may
8:27
Speaker 2: not think of it this way. Imagine if all of
8:29
Speaker 2: a sudden they were throwing the ball to you know, Uzama,
8:32
Speaker 2: who you know wasn't there this year, but ten or
8:34
Speaker 2: whoever was, And then you look at the sheet and
8:36
Speaker 2: you see Chase only has three targets. People would say, well,
8:39
Speaker 2: why aren't they throwing the ball to Jamar Chase. There's
8:41
Speaker 2: only so many balls to go around, so many passes.
8:44
Speaker 1: We're visiting with a great Greg Cosell. Let's talk about
8:47
Speaker 1: Joe Mixon, another hot topic for Bengals fans. He ran
8:50
Speaker 1: for more than a thousand yards. He had twelve combined
8:53
Speaker 1: touchdowns between rushing and receiving this year, but the explosive
8:56
Speaker 1: plays weren't there. He'll be twenty eight and this is
9:00
Speaker 1: going to be his eighth NFL season. What do you
9:03
Speaker 1: think of Joe Mixon at this stage of his career.
9:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's lost a little bit, just because
9:08
Speaker 2: he's played a long time. He's been kind of a
9:11
Speaker 2: volume carrier. He's a physical player, so I mean, I'm
9:15
Speaker 2: sure there's wear and tear. I always really like Joe
9:18
Speaker 2: Mixon as a player. I think he's had a really
9:20
Speaker 2: nice career, probably still a good player, and certainly knows
9:24
Speaker 2: the system and all those things that are very important.
9:27
Speaker 2: By the way, but if they truly felt like they
9:31
Speaker 2: could be better at the position without losing anything mentally
9:34
Speaker 2: from whoever they put out there, it would not surprise me.
9:38
Speaker 2: If they felt that they could move on. I just
9:40
Speaker 2: watching him run, and like I said, I remember watching
9:43
Speaker 2: him in Oklahoma and he was a great receiver. They
9:45
Speaker 2: split him out there. He was a great runner. He
9:47
Speaker 2: was an explosive back early in his career. So I
9:50
Speaker 2: just think he's not quite the same guy. Let's talk
9:54
Speaker 2: about Dax Hill. I know you liked him coming out
9:56
Speaker 2: of Michigan. This was his first year as a starter
9:59
Speaker 2: and it was a mixed bag.
10:01
Speaker 1: What'd you think of Dax Hill this year at safety?
10:04
Speaker 3: Just what you said.
10:04
Speaker 2: I think that he doesn't see it as quickly as
10:08
Speaker 2: you want, you know. But again, he's still a young player.
10:12
Speaker 2: Second year, right, this will be his third. He didn't
10:15
Speaker 2: play much as a rugie, right, so he's basically been
10:17
Speaker 2: a one year player at safety. So these are the
10:22
Speaker 2: hard questions organizations have to decide the guy.
10:25
Speaker 3: And it's funny.
10:26
Speaker 2: I had a chance yesterday to sit and talk with
10:27
Speaker 2: Jim Harbaugh for a half hour in the Dome, and
10:30
Speaker 2: I asked him about Dax Hill.
10:31
Speaker 3: I was just curious, you know, because.
10:32
Speaker 2: I didn't want to ask him about his player, you know,
10:34
Speaker 2: So I asked him about Bax Hill and he said
10:36
Speaker 2: that he wants to be a safety because they they
10:40
Speaker 2: really wanted him to be a corner because he's got
10:43
Speaker 2: great corner traits, But he wants to be a safety.
10:47
Speaker 2: So the sort of the compromise at at Michigan was
10:50
Speaker 2: that they made him their nickel in you know, in
10:54
Speaker 2: their sub defenses. But he wants to be a safety.
10:57
Speaker 2: He does not want to play outside corner, even though
10:59
Speaker 2: he has those trades. I think you have to give
11:02
Speaker 2: him another year to see because he is a he's
11:05
Speaker 2: a physical specimen, he can run.
11:10
Speaker 3: He just he's a great athlete. He's a great athlete
11:13
Speaker 3: and he's long.
11:14
Speaker 2: So to me, you have to work with him, coach him,
11:18
Speaker 2: and if he can get beyond that and see things better,
11:22
Speaker 2: he could become a really, really good player.
11:25
Speaker 1: Jonah Williams is heading into free agency. The Bengals are
11:29
Speaker 1: likely to have a different starting right tackle for the
11:31
Speaker 1: fifth consecutive year. Year be a fifth consecutive year. Yeah,
11:36
Speaker 1: do you consider this to be an unusually good tackle
11:39
Speaker 1: draft as many people do?
11:41
Speaker 3: Yeah? I do.
11:42
Speaker 2: I mean, again, you don't know how boards play out,
11:45
Speaker 2: and you don't know how drafts play out, but my
11:47
Speaker 2: guess is there'd be a tackle there at eighteen if
11:50
Speaker 2: they felt they needed They're not going to get Jesse Latham.
11:53
Speaker 2: They're probably not going to get the Oregon State kid Fuaga,
11:56
Speaker 2: who I really love. But yeah, I mean, I think
12:02
Speaker 2: there's tackles to get and even beyond pick eighteen, you know,
12:05
Speaker 2: the question, the big question always becomes can the guy
12:08
Speaker 2: line up and play as a rookie, because that's what
12:10
Speaker 2: you're ultimately saying, if they need to fill the position.
12:14
Speaker 2: You know, if they draft a guy in the third round,
12:16
Speaker 2: the likelihood of him stepping in as a starter. You Know,
12:19
Speaker 2: what people I think need to understand about the draft
12:21
Speaker 2: is there's reasons. You know, guys get drafted where they
12:25
Speaker 2: get drafted. Now that doesn't mean that there's nine examples
12:28
Speaker 2: where fourth round picks come right in and play and
12:30
Speaker 2: they're really good.
12:31
Speaker 3: You know, obviously that does happen.
12:33
Speaker 2: But in terms of overall evaluation of players, as you
12:36
Speaker 2: get lowered in the draft, it's because there are more
12:39
Speaker 2: wharts in a guy's game in terms of projection and transition.
12:42
Speaker 2: So but there are guys I think in this you know,
12:46
Speaker 2: there's a Patrick Paul from Houston. You know, guys like
12:49
Speaker 2: that that you may well be able to get in
12:51
Speaker 2: the third round, and I don't know if he's a
12:53
Speaker 2: Day one starter.
12:54
Speaker 3: Maybe he is, but you can get a tackle in
12:56
Speaker 3: this draft.
12:57
Speaker 1: Let me hit you on some of the other first
12:58
Speaker 1: round candidates. Assuming you're right and Fuaga and Latham are
13:02
Speaker 1: not there, most of the other people I've talked to
13:05
Speaker 1: don't think Alt will be there from Notre Dame. Maybe
13:08
Speaker 1: you disagree, but then you've got Fashanu from Penn State,
13:11
Speaker 1: Mims from Georgiatanu from Washington, Fantanu from Washington, ye, Geidon
13:18
Speaker 1: from Oklahoma. Any of those guys really move yet.
13:21
Speaker 2: I haven't done guid And yet, so I can't speak
13:23
Speaker 2: about him, and he you know, but he's a one
13:24
Speaker 2: year starter and a one year player. Mims is probably
13:27
Speaker 2: the most intriguing and most polarizing tackle in this draft
13:31
Speaker 2: class because he's played about as much football as you
13:33
Speaker 2: and I, but yet his size and his traits get
13:37
Speaker 2: people excited. I'd be very surprised if he's a Day
13:40
Speaker 2: one starter, be very surprised. He just hasn't played a
13:43
Speaker 2: lot of football.
13:45
Speaker 3: You know.
13:46
Speaker 2: The game that people point to is actually the game
13:50
Speaker 2: against Ohio State back two years ago, you know, in
13:54
Speaker 2: the playoff game, because he played the full game, but
13:57
Speaker 2: this year he was in and out of the lineup
14:00
Speaker 2: because he was hurt. His tape to me wasn't very good,
14:03
Speaker 2: but I'm loath to judge him on that because it
14:06
Speaker 2: was clear he was hurt. So he just hasn't played
14:09
Speaker 2: a lot of football. Now, that doesn't mean in three
14:11
Speaker 2: years he might not be a great right tackle. I
14:13
Speaker 2: spoke with someone who thinks that this guy could be phenomenal,
14:18
Speaker 2: but he's not going to be ready week one.
14:20
Speaker 3: So again, now you get into the free agency and
14:23
Speaker 3: you know you need someone to line up at right tackle.
14:25
Speaker 2: It's probably not going to be an All Pro Hall
14:27
Speaker 2: of Famer this year, you know, but you need someone
14:29
Speaker 2: who you can line up with and feel and trust
14:31
Speaker 2: him and feel that he can pass protect.
14:33
Speaker 1: All right, I've got a potential name for you. The
14:36
Speaker 1: Bengals offensive line coaches, Frank Pollock.
14:38
Speaker 3: He was with the Jets.
14:39
Speaker 1: He's been doing it a long time. He was with
14:41
Speaker 1: the Jets when they drafted Makai Beckton, who's obviously had
14:45
Speaker 1: injury problems in his four NFL seasons. Do you view
14:48
Speaker 1: him as somebody worth taking a flyer on.
14:51
Speaker 3: I do.
14:52
Speaker 2: He's big, he's athletic, he'd certainly be worth it. Maybe
14:55
Speaker 2: a change of environment. You know, obviously Pollock knows him.
15:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he'd be worth a flyer.
15:02
Speaker 2: I mean again, now you get into who knows what
15:05
Speaker 2: the money is, you know that that's a whole different question.
15:08
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think it's worth I mean, look, when
15:11
Speaker 2: you when you have a position where you're going to
15:13
Speaker 2: need competition in bodies, You're gonna have to take flyers
15:16
Speaker 2: on people because you know, you're not waiting around for
15:19
Speaker 2: Hall of Famer that's not gonna happen. So you need competition.
15:22
Speaker 3: You need to bring.
15:23
Speaker 2: Bodies in and see how it shakes out. And and yeah,
15:26
Speaker 2: I would. I mean, look, I remember Beck then you
15:29
Speaker 2: know he hasn't done great obviously in his NFL career, injuries,
15:32
Speaker 2: whatever reason, but I remember watching him. I believe it
15:34
Speaker 2: was Louisville he came out of. And you know you're talking.
15:37
Speaker 3: About a big athletic guy.
15:39
Speaker 2: I mean he is. He's really athletic for his size.
15:42
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I would. That's worth a flyer.
15:45
Speaker 1: DJ Reader is a free agent. He's coming off a
15:48
Speaker 1: major injury to the Bengals need to significantly address interior
15:53
Speaker 1: defensive line. And free agency in the draft.
15:57
Speaker 3: It needs to be addressed.
15:58
Speaker 2: They'll decide how to a priority is relative to the
16:01
Speaker 2: other things we've been talking about. Their run defense was
16:05
Speaker 2: not exactly what they would have hoped a year ago.
16:07
Speaker 2: They need to address that. They need to be better there.
16:09
Speaker 2: You know Reader, I always liked Reader as a player,
16:12
Speaker 2: but you know he's he's played a lot of snaps
16:14
Speaker 2: now coming off of major injury.
16:16
Speaker 3: Who knows, but yeah, that that needs to be addressed.
16:20
Speaker 1: Have you looked at defensive lineman in this draft?
16:22
Speaker 2: Some I mean I personally think there could be someone
16:26
Speaker 2: they are at eighteen that they could that could be available.
16:29
Speaker 2: I mean, to me, the number one guy that and
16:36
Speaker 2: no one doesn't love him because you can't. I mean,
16:38
Speaker 2: he's one of those guys, and that's Murphy from Texas.
16:42
Speaker 2: Whether he's there remains to be seen. There's some people
16:44
Speaker 2: who think, other than quarterback, he's one of the two
16:48
Speaker 2: or three best prospects in this draft. But you know,
16:52
Speaker 2: usually defensive tackle is not a position you draft super high,
16:56
Speaker 2: particularly in a draft that has the quarterbacks and that
17:00
Speaker 2: has the receivers. You know, normally that happens first. Normally.
17:07
Speaker 2: He's really a good prospect. He's a really good prospect.
17:11
Speaker 1: His name comes up a lot. Johnny Newton from Illinois
17:14
Speaker 1: is the other name.
17:15
Speaker 2: Not as good a prospect in my view, but pretty
17:18
Speaker 2: but a good prospect. He would definitely be there at
17:19
Speaker 2: eighteen if you'll like him. You know, he's one of
17:22
Speaker 2: those guys that you might not see him as the
17:25
Speaker 2: eighteenth best player on your board. I like the player.
17:29
Speaker 2: I think he'll be a good pro He's not as
17:32
Speaker 2: explosive as Newton and I think, but I think he's
17:36
Speaker 2: a good prospect. I don't know if you'd have him
17:39
Speaker 2: eighteenth on your board. But again, when you start getting
17:42
Speaker 2: into needs, like let's say he's twenty third on your
17:44
Speaker 2: board and I don't know, you know that you could
17:47
Speaker 2: take him at eighteen, and that's not a reach. You
17:48
Speaker 2: just don't want to take him at eighteen. If he's
17:50
Speaker 2: forty third on your board. You know, that's what teams
17:52
Speaker 2: start getting into trouble to.
17:54
Speaker 1: And Andre Sweat's name comes up, not as a first
17:57
Speaker 1: round pick, but as somebody that might make sense for
17:59
Speaker 1: the Bengals in trying to have that interior run stopping
18:03
Speaker 1: type defensive lineman. He weighed in at more than three
18:06
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty pounds yesterday, had some trouble in some
18:10
Speaker 1: of the agility drills. He slipped trying to do a
18:13
Speaker 1: spin move. What do you think of sweat?
18:16
Speaker 2: Well, he's gonna have to lose weight. I can tell
18:17
Speaker 2: you that. I mean, he's not gonna play in the
18:19
Speaker 2: NFL at three sixty six. But he does have light
18:21
Speaker 2: feet for a big man, so he's not just a big,
18:25
Speaker 2: fat guy. But he would have to lose weight. I
18:27
Speaker 2: think he'd obviously be a run defender. You know, you're
18:31
Speaker 2: not see to me that that's not.
18:34
Speaker 3: A first round pick.
18:35
Speaker 2: Like I would not pick him at eighteen, even if
18:38
Speaker 2: you love the player, I would not pick him at eighteen.
18:40
Speaker 3: Now. I don't know how teams feel about him. I
18:42
Speaker 3: don't know what their draft boards look like.
18:44
Speaker 2: I think you'd need him to lose thirty pounds, but
18:47
Speaker 2: he does have light feet for a man that size.
18:49
Speaker 2: You know, he did struggle in a few drills, but
18:51
Speaker 2: there were also a few other drills. Because I was
18:52
Speaker 2: in the dome, Well, he looked pretty good. You know,
18:54
Speaker 2: you kind of went, oh, god, he's moving pretty well
18:56
Speaker 2: for three hundred sixty six pound guy. But you know,
19:01
Speaker 2: who knows what he could be if he got down
19:03
Speaker 2: to three thirty, you know, which is really what he
19:05
Speaker 2: probably should be. Now again, you would assume Texas has
19:09
Speaker 2: great facilities, you know, probably have money for nutritionis and
19:12
Speaker 2: all that.
19:12
Speaker 3: You'd have to do your due diligence there.
19:14
Speaker 2: You have to find out if he's the problem or
19:17
Speaker 2: if for some reason Texas didn't handle it. You know,
19:19
Speaker 2: that's where you have to find those things out. If
19:22
Speaker 2: if you find out he's the problem, that becomes a concern,
19:25
Speaker 2: you know, because then what's so Leidia believe that it's going.
19:28
Speaker 3: To get better in the NFL.
19:30
Speaker 1: I think he told reporters yesterday that he believes his
19:34
Speaker 1: best playing weight is in the three sixties.
19:38
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to sit here and say he's wrong,
19:40
Speaker 2: but he's wrong. He's not gonna play at three sixties six.
19:43
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think there's any team that would
19:46
Speaker 2: say that at three sixty six he's okay.
19:51
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow's cap hit this year is twenty nine point
19:53
Speaker 1: seven mil. It jumps to forty six point two five
19:57
Speaker 1: next year. Do you view this as a crucial year
20:00
Speaker 1: because the Bengals have some cap role to add quality
20:04
Speaker 1: depth through free agency? While they can.
20:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think you have got because Burrow.
20:13
Speaker 2: You know, you're not getting rid of Joe Burrow, and
20:15
Speaker 2: you're not trying to mess around with them. I mean,
20:16
Speaker 2: it is what it is. I mean, that's the way
20:18
Speaker 2: quarterbacks are paid. And the CAP's going up. You know,
20:21
Speaker 2: the league's doing great, the TV money is rolling in,
20:24
Speaker 2: you know.
20:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know this is a year where you.
20:27
Speaker 2: Want, you would love to be able, not only with
20:31
Speaker 2: free agency, but the draft as well, to really get
20:34
Speaker 2: even if they're not day one starters, a lot of depth,
20:37
Speaker 2: a lot of competition, guys you feel can become starters
20:40
Speaker 2: or guys that you feel sure up a given position.
20:44
Speaker 3: Yeah.
20:45
Speaker 2: So if there's cap space, then you really this becomes
20:48
Speaker 2: a really important year because what are you gonna.
20:50
Speaker 3: Do with Borrow.
20:50
Speaker 2: You're gonna go to them and say we want to renegotiate.
20:52
Speaker 2: That's probably not gonna happen. I don't think you know,
20:55
Speaker 2: you would know more. I don't think that's gonna happen.
20:57
Speaker 1: Not going to happen.
20:57
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, not gonna happen, right right, Not gonna happen.
21:01
Speaker 1: So we crossed paths here for the first time. A
21:03
Speaker 1: couple of days ago, and right off the bat you
21:06
Speaker 1: were talking about how eager you were to see Joe
21:08
Speaker 1: Burrow back healthy and leading the way next year.
21:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Joe Burrow to me, and you know,
21:16
Speaker 2: I'm a purist because of how I was taught the position.
21:19
Speaker 3: And I believe me, I've changed.
21:20
Speaker 2: You have to change your point of view because of
21:22
Speaker 2: the way the quarterbacks as they grow up now they're
21:25
Speaker 2: far more athletic. There's far more plays above the ex's
21:28
Speaker 2: and o's off script that does factor into an evaluation,
21:32
Speaker 2: far more than it ever did, and you have to
21:34
Speaker 2: accept that, and you've got to you sort of have
21:35
Speaker 2: to embrace it. I mean that's you know, we see
21:39
Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes, we see him make plays. We see Josh Allen,
21:41
Speaker 2: we see these plays being made. You know, Lamar Jackson,
21:44
Speaker 2: you see them every week. And Burrow certainly is not unathletic,
21:48
Speaker 2: as you know. But Burrow to me is just a
21:53
Speaker 2: high level, nuanced, detailed, subtle discipline, discipline craft quarterback. And
21:58
Speaker 2: I love watching those kinds of quarterbacks, guys who can
22:01
Speaker 2: can just control the game nowhere to go with the ball,
22:05
Speaker 2: you know, if you want to get really simplistic about quarterback.
22:08
Speaker 3: But it is true. You know, ultimately you want your quarterback.
22:11
Speaker 2: To be able to know who to throw the ball,
22:14
Speaker 2: to throw it to that guy at the right time,
22:17
Speaker 2: with the right kind of throw. That's ultimately what you
22:19
Speaker 2: want your quarterback with accuracy. Of course, you know, Burrow's
22:24
Speaker 2: really really good and you know what I love about
22:25
Speaker 2: Burrow And the tape tells you this, and I imagine
22:29
Speaker 2: on the sideline there's great conversations because he is so
22:32
Speaker 2: mentally into the game. You can tell watching the game
22:36
Speaker 2: and I'm just talking about tape, you know, not TV.
22:38
Speaker 2: I'm watching the tape that what he's seeing and how
22:42
Speaker 2: he's adjusting to it. Like I feel like he's a
22:45
Speaker 2: master at that. And you would know, you know that
22:48
Speaker 2: just to me comes across watching the tape, and that's
22:50
Speaker 2: a trade. There's a lot of guys who are gifted,
22:53
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of guys who can make plays,
22:55
Speaker 2: and you know, but I feel like he's kind of
22:57
Speaker 2: a chess master, like he's always figuring something out as
23:01
Speaker 2: the game is being played.
23:03
Speaker 3: Very good description.
23:05
Speaker 1: I love coming to the Combine and one of my
23:07
Speaker 1: favorite reasons is running into you. I really appreciate your
23:10
Speaker 1: time as always, Thank you.
23:11
Speaker 3: Greg, Thanks, Dan, appreciate it.
23:13
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by pay Corp,
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Speaker 1: the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Nearly all of
23:36
Speaker 1: the NFL's movers and shakers can be found in Indianapolis
23:39
Speaker 1: during the combine, including NFL Network insider Ian rappaport I
23:45
Speaker 1: spent a few minutes picking his brain, and here's Ian
23:49
Speaker 1: on Dan Pitcher taking over his offensive coordinator after Brian
23:53
Speaker 1: Callahan got the head coaching job in Tennessee.
23:57
Speaker 4: It was critical And I'll tell you what, like picture's
24:00
Speaker 4: not a household name. I mean, I'm sure Bengals fans
24:03
Speaker 4: know who he is, but most people probably don't. He
24:05
Speaker 4: was going to be a coordinator. Absolutely, Like Kelli, getting
24:08
Speaker 4: a head coaching job was interesting because it immediately was like,
24:12
Speaker 4: all right, well, you know, how do they replay? And no,
24:14
Speaker 4: I think the league was like, wait, this guy was
24:17
Speaker 4: gonna be our coordinator and there were several teams who
24:19
Speaker 4: I think were really hoping and planning to hire Dan
24:22
Speaker 4: Pitcher said, the Bangals were like, oh no, no, like
24:24
Speaker 4: this is gonna be our guy. But that's that's why
24:27
Speaker 4: good teams are good, right, because when a player goes down,
24:30
Speaker 4: you can you can have a good player fill in
24:32
Speaker 4: for him. When a coach gets hired, you can say, well,
24:36
Speaker 4: I'm not only I can not only promote the next
24:39
Speaker 4: really good offensive coordinator, but this is probably the next
24:41
Speaker 4: guy who can be a really good head coach. And like,
24:44
Speaker 4: that's how you should develop talent all across an organization.
24:47
Speaker 1: Have you heard any scuttle butt about the possibility of
24:51
Speaker 1: a tag in trade with t Higgins?
24:55
Speaker 4: You always heard a scuttle But that's what the combine
24:57
Speaker 4: is for The Bengals tagged Higgins early. And you know,
25:01
Speaker 4: I listened to the Duke Tobin response today saying that
25:06
Speaker 4: we tagged him early because we knew we were gonna do.
25:08
Speaker 5: Definitely believe it.
25:09
Speaker 4: Duke does not lie, So I hear, one hundred percent
25:12
Speaker 4: believe that that is the truth. But it also did
25:14
Speaker 4: show teams that I'm not saying he's available, but that
25:18
Speaker 4: he's under contract.
25:19
Speaker 5: That if something were to happen, they could do it.
25:22
Speaker 5: Tee Higgins is awesome.
25:23
Speaker 4: And he's going to get a new contract, a massive
25:26
Speaker 4: new contract, and he should is it with the Bengals, probably,
25:31
Speaker 4: But the cap went up really high. The Bengals value
25:33
Speaker 4: draft picks immensely, So could another team make a deal
25:36
Speaker 4: that would.
25:37
Speaker 5: Make it worth their while?
25:38
Speaker 4: Maybe, because everything has a price, right, and so like
25:41
Speaker 4: if you're Sincy and you say, like, we love Jamar Chase,
25:44
Speaker 4: we like to pay him too, we love draft picks, Like,
25:47
Speaker 4: surely there's some way it can make sense either way.
25:50
Speaker 4: Tee Higgins is going to be very very highly paid
25:52
Speaker 4: and probably play for a very good team.
25:55
Speaker 1: How realistic is it to pay Burrow, Chase and Higgins
26:00
Speaker 1: long term?
26:01
Speaker 4: You can do it, You could definitely do it, but
26:03
Speaker 4: you have to cut out elsewhere. Now, the cap went
26:06
Speaker 4: up more than anticipated, so I think that's significant, But
26:09
Speaker 4: it also means agents are going to be asking for
26:10
Speaker 4: more for all all across, all across the board, and
26:15
Speaker 4: so you know you can do it, but then you're saying, like,
26:18
Speaker 4: we're not going to pay as much for this backup tackle,
26:20
Speaker 4: We're not going to pay as much for this guard,
26:22
Speaker 4: this fourth linebacker or whatever.
26:25
Speaker 5: It is.
26:25
Speaker 4: Like, the money is not finite too, It's all about
26:28
Speaker 4: what decisions you make.
26:29
Speaker 5: Now, there's two schools of thought.
26:31
Speaker 4: You could be like, we're going to pay all receivers
26:33
Speaker 4: to support Joe Burrow. But you can do what the
26:35
Speaker 4: Chiefs do and go We got Patrick Mahomes. We trust
26:39
Speaker 4: that he's going to develop just these guys whoever they are,
26:41
Speaker 4: and we'll blow it up on defense. There are options
26:44
Speaker 4: and how you win. It's gonna be fascinating to see
26:46
Speaker 4: what direction the Bengals go.
26:48
Speaker 1: Another scuttle butt question, Guys, there any talk out there
26:51
Speaker 1: about Joe Mixon possibly being a cap casualty.
26:55
Speaker 4: You know, this is like the third year in a
26:57
Speaker 4: row that we're doing this.
26:58
Speaker 5: And I will say the same thing as I always do.
27:01
Speaker 5: Is there talk? Yes? Is it possible? Yes?
27:04
Speaker 4: But it's such a good it fits so well that
27:08
Speaker 4: I you know, you got to think they can figure
27:10
Speaker 4: out a way to make this work. I just, you know,
27:13
Speaker 4: I'm callous to this, but like you see guys in
27:15
Speaker 4: different uniforms all the time, I'm just not so sure
27:18
Speaker 4: I see it.
27:18
Speaker 5: In this case, We'll see.
27:20
Speaker 1: The Borough contract really becomes significant in terms of the
27:23
Speaker 1: cap next year. I think it's forty six million next year,
27:27
Speaker 1: so they've got cap space right now. Do you view
27:29
Speaker 1: this as a crucial off season for the Bengals in
27:32
Speaker 1: terms of free agency, in building roster depth?
27:35
Speaker 5: One hundred percent. This is how you do it right.
27:36
Speaker 4: You take when you got space, you spend, spend wisely,
27:40
Speaker 4: and then you buckle them for the years you don't
27:42
Speaker 4: have space. So yeah, I would say as critical. No,
27:44
Speaker 4: last year was probably all more critical just because of
27:46
Speaker 4: the Joe contract.
27:47
Speaker 5: But it gets a big decisions to.
27:50
Speaker 1: Make and with that, Ian was hustled off to his
27:53
Speaker 1: next interview, but I did appreciate a few minutes of
27:56
Speaker 1: his time. He's part of the NFL's live coverage of
27:59
Speaker 1: the Combine, and coverage starts at one o'clock on Saturday
28:02
Speaker 1: and on Sunday. Finally, the primary reason the NFL descends
28:07
Speaker 1: on Indianapolis is to study draft prospects. The Bengals have
28:11
Speaker 1: the eighteenth overall selection this year and a total of
28:15
Speaker 1: nine picks. They have extras in the fifth round and
28:18
Speaker 1: seventh round. For an in depth look at the most
28:21
Speaker 1: likely possibilities in round one, I spoke to Dane Brugler,
28:25
Speaker 1: the draft guru for the athletic.
28:30
Speaker 3: Dan.
28:30
Speaker 1: At the moment, the Bengals need a starting right tackle.
28:33
Speaker 1: They have the eighteenth pick in the draft. Should they
28:36
Speaker 1: be able to find a plug and play right tackle
28:39
Speaker 1: at eighteen?
28:42
Speaker 6: Hopefully? If you're the Bengals, that's the word. This is
28:45
Speaker 6: a good year.
28:46
Speaker 7: If you need offensive tackles in the top twenty, it's
28:49
Speaker 7: just a matter of you project them as day one.
28:52
Speaker 3: Guys?
28:52
Speaker 6: Is this you know? Like I love Amarus mens from Georgia,
28:55
Speaker 6: love them. This is if you're going to build an
28:57
Speaker 6: offensive tackle in a lab. That's what it looks like.
29:00
Speaker 3: You know.
29:00
Speaker 7: The way he's built, six seven, three thirty, very low
29:04
Speaker 7: fat percentage, body fat percentage, the length is outstanding. I
29:08
Speaker 7: can't wait to see him move here at the combine,
29:10
Speaker 7: but eight career starts. You know what kind of projection
29:13
Speaker 7: are we talking about with him? Tyler Geiton kind of
29:15
Speaker 7: the same thing. Who another freak athlete is gonna test
29:18
Speaker 7: really well? Here is gonna move really well? Do you
29:22
Speaker 7: trust him enough with where he is currently in his
29:24
Speaker 7: development to put him out there at right tackle from
29:26
Speaker 7: day one? I think the answer to that question will
29:28
Speaker 7: be different from team to team. Some teams will be
29:31
Speaker 7: a little more optimistic and say, yeah, I think we can.
29:33
Speaker 7: I think he'll be okay for us. Other teams will
29:36
Speaker 7: be more skeptical. So I do think that there's not
29:39
Speaker 7: a consensus answer. Team to team will look at it
29:41
Speaker 7: a little bit differently. And for the Bengals, you know,
29:44
Speaker 7: they've got a chance to probably draft one of those guys,
29:47
Speaker 7: and if they do, we know they're probably gonna see
29:50
Speaker 7: the field pretty early and it's gonna be a sink
29:52
Speaker 7: or swim situation.
29:54
Speaker 1: Mims and Geiten are both six seven guys. You gave
29:57
Speaker 1: the measurables on the Marius Mims. Let me ask this question,
30:01
Speaker 1: what tackle should we not get our hopes up for
30:04
Speaker 1: who's almost certain to be gone by eighteen.
30:07
Speaker 7: I mean Joe alt Notre Dame. I think he's the
30:09
Speaker 7: best tackle in this class. I think he's the best
30:11
Speaker 7: combination of everything that you want.
30:14
Speaker 6: And I love his backstory.
30:15
Speaker 7: You know, his dad was a pro bowler for Joe
30:17
Speaker 7: Montana blocked over with Joe Montana in the early nineties.
30:20
Speaker 7: But his dad didn't He didn't want his son to
30:23
Speaker 7: be an offensive lineman right away.
30:24
Speaker 6: He was a skill position player.
30:26
Speaker 7: You know, he wanted to be him to be an athlete,
30:28
Speaker 7: and even in high school he was a quarterback and
30:31
Speaker 7: tight end. It wasn't until his senior year that he
30:33
Speaker 7: really started moving to tackle and that I think really
30:37
Speaker 7: helped him be an athlete first then become aligneman. In
30:41
Speaker 7: the development he's shown year over year in Notre Dame
30:44
Speaker 7: the last three years has been tremendous. So to me,
30:47
Speaker 7: he's you know, he moves a lot, like different body type,
30:51
Speaker 7: but he moves a lot with Jake Matthews with the Falcons,
30:53
Speaker 7: and you know, if you have a chance to get
30:55
Speaker 7: a Jake Matthews type of player somewhere in the top fifteen,
30:58
Speaker 7: you're gonna do it.
30:58
Speaker 6: So I don't think he's gonna laugh.
31:01
Speaker 7: You know, I think Golu Fashnu, there's not a consensus
31:05
Speaker 7: like he's he's a top ten guy among with teams,
31:09
Speaker 7: just mostly because the run blocking stuff is not up
31:12
Speaker 7: to par with his pass protection, but still a really
31:14
Speaker 7: quality player.
31:15
Speaker 6: I don't expect him to be there to.
31:16
Speaker 7: Least Flaga not as freaky as these other guys, but
31:19
Speaker 7: you can make the argument he's the best football player
31:21
Speaker 7: of the group, and at the end of the day,
31:23
Speaker 7: it's what we're drafting football players, and so I think
31:26
Speaker 7: Flaga will be.
31:27
Speaker 6: Gone at that point.
31:28
Speaker 7: So I think another interesting name to keep in mind
31:31
Speaker 7: is the Washington left tackle Troy Fontaineau, who is, in
31:36
Speaker 7: my opinion, I think best at guard, but he can
31:39
Speaker 7: play tackle, so he has a length for it, he
31:42
Speaker 7: has the feet for it. I like him in terms
31:44
Speaker 7: of maximizing what he can be as an inside player,
31:46
Speaker 7: but the Bengals might see him as a tackle, and
31:48
Speaker 7: so he's another name to keep in the mix.
31:50
Speaker 1: You covered most of the tackles I have listed in
31:52
Speaker 1: front of me. One name you did not mention was J. C.
31:55
Speaker 1: Latham from Alabama. Do you see him as a right
31:57
Speaker 1: tackle or as a guard?
31:58
Speaker 6: He's a right tackle.
32:00
Speaker 7: I think that he might be the strongest player in
32:02
Speaker 7: the entire draft. I mean, he is that type of dude.
32:05
Speaker 7: I don't think he'll be there, but there's a chance
32:08
Speaker 7: because you know a team's gonna look at him as
32:11
Speaker 7: a right tackle, only you know that might affect how
32:14
Speaker 7: teams draft him. He's only played right tackle at Alabama
32:19
Speaker 7: and so that's a factor here. Good chance he comes
32:21
Speaker 7: off the board of the top fifteen picks, top sixteen picks.
32:24
Speaker 7: But if you were to be there at eighteen, I
32:26
Speaker 7: think he'd make a lot of sense.
32:27
Speaker 1: We're talking to the athletics draft guru Dane Brugler. Let's say,
32:31
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, the tackles that they like are all
32:34
Speaker 1: gone when they're on the board at eighteen, they also
32:36
Speaker 1: have a needed defensive tackle. What guys do you like
32:40
Speaker 1: as potential first round picks in that spot.
32:43
Speaker 7: I love Byron Murphy, you know, defensive tackle from Texas.
32:47
Speaker 7: He's not necessarily exactly how you draw it up. He's
32:50
Speaker 7: only six foot, but he is over three hundred pounds.
32:53
Speaker 7: And I was talking to him last week. He's just
32:55
Speaker 7: getting ready for the combine and just kind of talking
32:58
Speaker 7: about because he's a freak catho him he's gonna run
33:00
Speaker 7: on the four eight, so he's gonna put thirty five
33:02
Speaker 7: reps on the bench, just talk talking about his journey
33:06
Speaker 7: as a freak athlete. He never saw himself playing defensive line.
33:09
Speaker 7: He saw himself as an NFL running back, and then
33:12
Speaker 7: in high school he was a linebacker. And his sophomore year,
33:16
Speaker 7: they put this pressure package together where they moved him
33:19
Speaker 7: down to the defensive line, and they did it once,
33:22
Speaker 7: did it twice.
33:23
Speaker 3: And it worked.
33:24
Speaker 7: Too well, because they're like, all right, you're staying here,
33:26
Speaker 7: we're gonna add weight to you. And yeah, he broke
33:29
Speaker 7: Von Miller's sack record at De Soto High School in
33:31
Speaker 7: Texas really started to blossom, and then this past year
33:34
Speaker 7: at Texas was he had the highest pass rush win
33:37
Speaker 7: percentage among all interior defensive tackles. Long story store, I
33:41
Speaker 7: don't think he's gonna be there at eighteen, but if
33:42
Speaker 7: he is, that's to me, that'd be the easy note
33:45
Speaker 7: brainer pick. Johnny Newton's a really good player too. Coming
33:48
Speaker 7: off the foot injury, won't see him work out here.
33:51
Speaker 7: But what I love most about Newton the guy that
33:55
Speaker 7: you see in the fourth quarter with five minutes off
33:57
Speaker 7: to go, the same hustle, the same effort you're seeing
34:00
Speaker 7: with the first play of the game. He plays sixty
34:02
Speaker 7: plus snaps a game and still the motor is still Revan.
34:05
Speaker 6: He is a really impressive player.
34:08
Speaker 7: Not gonna fit in terms of the length, in terms
34:11
Speaker 7: with size measurements what teams are looking for, and not
34:14
Speaker 7: gonna be a fit for everybody, but I think there's
34:16
Speaker 7: a lot there where you just this is a good
34:18
Speaker 7: football player, both against a run and against the pass.
34:21
Speaker 7: So Newton somewhere say, between eighteen is probably the earliest.
34:25
Speaker 7: I would see him going eighteen to thirty five. Somewhere
34:28
Speaker 7: in that range is where I see Newton come off
34:29
Speaker 7: the board.
34:31
Speaker 1: DJ Reider is a free agent. He's also coming off
34:33
Speaker 1: an injury. He's been the Bengals' best run stopping defensive tackle,
34:37
Speaker 1: so that could be a need as well. I think
34:40
Speaker 1: you have to and Andre Sweat in the thirties on
34:43
Speaker 1: your big board. Big three hundred and sixty pound nose
34:48
Speaker 1: tackle type wouldn't be a first round pick in all likelihood,
34:51
Speaker 1: but could possibly be of interest in the second round
34:54
Speaker 1: for the Bengals.
34:55
Speaker 3: What should we know about Sweat?
34:57
Speaker 6: We think he's three sixty, but it could be higher
34:59
Speaker 6: than that.
35:00
Speaker 7: He is a big boy, but it doesn't look like
35:03
Speaker 7: he's overweight, Like he just carries this all this muscle
35:06
Speaker 7: mass in this body weight really naturally for him, so
35:10
Speaker 7: much power and his.
35:11
Speaker 6: Legs and his upper body.
35:12
Speaker 7: During the Senior Bowl one on once he was just
35:15
Speaker 7: bullying guys backwards and it's all over his tape too.
35:18
Speaker 7: But he moves with agility for a guy that side,
35:21
Speaker 7: so he's moving laterally making plays versa a run He's
35:24
Speaker 7: not just a I'm gonna be a nose tackle, eat
35:27
Speaker 7: up doubles and double teams and you know, play in
35:32
Speaker 7: my square and that's it.
35:34
Speaker 6: He has some range to him.
35:35
Speaker 7: Now, can he play forty plus naps a game and
35:38
Speaker 7: still give you that same range every single play?
35:40
Speaker 6: That's kind of the question mark.
35:42
Speaker 7: That's why we're probably talking about more of a second
35:44
Speaker 7: rounder than a first rounder. But what he did this
35:46
Speaker 7: past year for Texas, him and Murphy working together was
35:50
Speaker 7: really impressive.
35:51
Speaker 1: So if you asked one hundred Bengals fans who they
35:53
Speaker 1: would like to see Cincinnati select this year, ninety nine
35:56
Speaker 1: would probably say brock Bowers. That seems to be the
35:59
Speaker 1: fantasy pick at number eighteen. I personally don't think it's realistic.
36:03
Speaker 1: But is there a universe where brock Bowers, for whatever reason,
36:07
Speaker 1: could be there at eighteen.
36:08
Speaker 7: You don't rule it out because it's the position that
36:12
Speaker 7: he plays. There will be a lot of teams that
36:14
Speaker 7: won't even consider a tight end. It doesn't matter how
36:16
Speaker 7: good you are. They're not gonna consider a tight end
36:18
Speaker 7: in the top top half a round one. And so
36:22
Speaker 7: then you so you eliminate those teams, then you eliminate
36:25
Speaker 7: the teams that already have a tight end, they're not
36:27
Speaker 7: gonna draft one. And how many teams do you have left?
36:29
Speaker 7: You know, it's maybe the Colts at fifteen, Maybe if
36:33
Speaker 7: the Chargers trade back from five. Like it's when you
36:37
Speaker 7: do a mock draft, it could be hard to find
36:38
Speaker 7: exact landing spots that make a ton of sense. But
36:41
Speaker 7: I'm with you, I'd be very surprised just because he's
36:42
Speaker 7: that too good.
36:43
Speaker 6: You know, he's a top ten player in this draft.
36:47
Speaker 7: He's you have to have a plan for him because
36:49
Speaker 7: he's not just a traditional wide tight end.
36:51
Speaker 6: Line them up in line and we'll run our offense.
36:55
Speaker 7: You have to heat the versatility with his athleticism is
36:58
Speaker 7: what makes them special, what makes a weapon. You have
37:01
Speaker 7: to be able to tap into that. So you're lining
37:03
Speaker 7: them up wide, he's gonna be in the slot, he's
37:05
Speaker 7: gonna be in line, backfield. You have to be creative
37:08
Speaker 7: with him. And he's so good. He's so athletic. Before
37:12
Speaker 7: the catch, he's gonna get open. He's so strong at
37:14
Speaker 7: the catch, he's gonna win. It doesn't matter what crowds
37:16
Speaker 7: around him. He's gonna win contested balls. And then he's
37:19
Speaker 7: the master of the hidden yards after the catch seven
37:22
Speaker 7: yard gains for most tight ends. He's getting eleven because
37:25
Speaker 7: he's just he turns into a running back. He's hard
37:27
Speaker 7: to bring down. So you know, the brock Bauers conversation is, yeah.
37:32
Speaker 6: You have to.
37:32
Speaker 7: You look around the league and you see a lot
37:34
Speaker 7: of second, third, fourth round tight ends that are doing
37:36
Speaker 7: just fine. You're paying a premium with a first round
37:39
Speaker 7: tight end. But when you think about the impact he
37:41
Speaker 7: can make on your offense, and if your play caller
37:43
Speaker 7: is on board with making sure you're utilizing him to
37:46
Speaker 7: maximize the cost, yeah, you're getting a steal at that point.
37:50
Speaker 1: Dame Brugler from The Athletic is our guest. I think
37:53
Speaker 1: a lot of those Bengals fans who have locked in
37:55
Speaker 1: on brock Bowers is their fantasy draft pick don't even
37:58
Speaker 1: know the other tight ends in this draft. He's obviously
38:00
Speaker 1: not the only one. Who are some of the other
38:02
Speaker 1: ones you like?
38:04
Speaker 7: I think if you're looking second round, Jatavian Sanders from
38:06
Speaker 7: Texas is a really athletic player. Wish he put more
38:10
Speaker 7: on film in the red zone, but it's just not
38:11
Speaker 7: how Texas offense operated. Once you get into a third round.
38:16
Speaker 7: I really like the TCU kid, Jre Wiley, He's a
38:19
Speaker 7: good player. Cade Stover from Ohio State, Theo Johnson Penn State.
38:24
Speaker 7: It's not a great tight end class, especially in the
38:27
Speaker 7: first two rounds, but I think third round, fourth round,
38:29
Speaker 7: fifth round, there are more than a few names that
38:32
Speaker 7: make sense if you're looking forward a true why if
38:34
Speaker 7: you're looking for more of a joker tight end, if
38:36
Speaker 7: you're looking for a combo guy that can do a
38:38
Speaker 7: little bit of both.
38:39
Speaker 6: So yeah, this draft, I think at tight.
38:41
Speaker 7: End, if you're willing to be patient, there are definitely
38:44
Speaker 7: some really talented players that could end up panning out
38:47
Speaker 7: playing where they're drafted.
38:49
Speaker 1: The Bengals are franchise tag T Higgins. I think most
38:52
Speaker 1: of us expecting to be in Cincinnati for one more
38:54
Speaker 1: year and then it might be unrealistic to keep both
38:57
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase and t Higgins. Should the Bengal be looking
39:00
Speaker 1: for a t Higgins replacement in this draft because it
39:04
Speaker 1: seems like there are always some great wide receivers out there.
39:06
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think you obviously, maybe not with your first
39:09
Speaker 7: round pick, or maybe not with your second round pick,
39:11
Speaker 7: but sure, yeah, you always keep an open mind too,
39:13
Speaker 7: you know, wide receivers become. It's always been an important position,
39:17
Speaker 7: but it's become even more so with just today's modern
39:20
Speaker 7: day NFL. So yeah, you keep an eye on who's
39:24
Speaker 7: someone we can develop, Who's someone that is not gonna
39:27
Speaker 7: cost us a premium pick, but two years from now,
39:31
Speaker 7: is gonna be someone that's gonna we expect to be
39:34
Speaker 7: competing for a starting job. So you know, whether that's
39:38
Speaker 7: a Troy Franklin in the second round or you know,
39:42
Speaker 7: I think in my top one hundred I had seventeen
39:44
Speaker 7: receivers in there. I mean, it's just I'm convinced the
39:46
Speaker 7: rest of time, every year's gonna be strong a receiver
39:48
Speaker 7: because that's where all the athletes go. If you're not
39:51
Speaker 7: good enough to play quarterback, you're going to receiver in
39:54
Speaker 7: high school and youth football and all that. So you
39:56
Speaker 7: know you're developing at that position and you really have
39:59
Speaker 7: a chain as a shine.
40:00
Speaker 6: So yeah, I'm you look at receiver.
40:04
Speaker 7: I'm not sure how early they would actually pull the
40:07
Speaker 7: trigger there, but if you're gonna if you want a
40:10
Speaker 7: position with depth wide receiver, this year certainly has in
40:13
Speaker 7: so you don't have to go with that position early.
40:15
Speaker 7: You can wait to the fourth round still come away
40:17
Speaker 7: with a pretty good player.
40:18
Speaker 1: You've been doing this for a while. Your draft guide
40:21
Speaker 1: the Beast is the best one out there. Have the
40:24
Speaker 1: Bengals developed a draft personality or a proto type in
40:29
Speaker 1: your mind when you think Bengals, Is there something where
40:32
Speaker 1: the draft is concerned that you say, all right, that's
40:34
Speaker 1: a Cincinnati Bengals kind of guy.
40:37
Speaker 7: I think, well, first of all, when you're doing a
40:38
Speaker 7: mock draft, you don't bother trading, you know, moving around
40:41
Speaker 7: with the Bengals, you know they're gonna stick.
40:42
Speaker 6: A pick, right.
40:45
Speaker 7: I was thinking about that with my last mock draft, like, oh,
40:47
Speaker 7: what would they move up six spots to get brought
40:49
Speaker 7: by this the Bengals, what are we talking about?
40:51
Speaker 3: Now?
40:51
Speaker 7: They're not going to do that, but I think that
40:54
Speaker 7: they they do place a premium on the key positions,
40:59
Speaker 7: you know, whether it defensive line, offensive line, quarterback, wide receiver, corner.
41:04
Speaker 7: You know, like this is a team that it feels
41:06
Speaker 7: like that's it with those early picks, those first rounders specifically,
41:11
Speaker 7: they want to get the premium position right. And they're
41:14
Speaker 7: look at their draft history with the way they they've drafted,
41:17
Speaker 7: certainly certainly looks that they want to do so this year.
41:20
Speaker 7: Right tackle makes a ton of sense if they want
41:22
Speaker 7: to get better on defensive tackle. Yeah, I think they're
41:26
Speaker 7: a meat and potatoes type of team when it comes
41:27
Speaker 7: to drafting.
41:28
Speaker 6: They don't.
41:29
Speaker 7: You know, maybe John Ross is the last time they
41:31
Speaker 7: really got caught up and maybe like the flash of
41:33
Speaker 7: a player instead of focusing on maybe just the premium
41:37
Speaker 7: that you can the player can bring you. So Yeah,
41:40
Speaker 7: this is a team that I wouldn't say they're easy
41:42
Speaker 7: to project by any means, but I think.
41:45
Speaker 6: We have a better feel for the type of player
41:46
Speaker 6: that usually go after.
41:48
Speaker 1: I am one of approximately five hundred people looking for
41:51
Speaker 1: your time here at the NFL Scouting Combine. I promise
41:54
Speaker 1: to keep it under fifteen minutes, and I succeeded. Thank
41:57
Speaker 1: you so much. Look forward to devouring the.
41:59
Speaker 6: Bait all right anytime.
42:01
Speaker 3: Thank you. That's going to do it.
42:03
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