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Stone Heart From Susan Hamilton Is It Or Is It Not Stolen Love With Forgiveness · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 1: Wow, there you are? Where have you been? I mean,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: it's about showing up right, You on your side, me
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  Speaker 1: I am one and nothing, nothing gets me more than
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  Speaker 1: when I'm in the middle of traffic and I can't
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  Speaker 1: get to another podcast because it's on a different platform.
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  Speaker 1: That's why I'm trying to do it all on arow
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  Speaker 1: dot net A r r oe dot net. Keep your
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  Speaker 1: eyes on the road and the job, enjoy the exploration.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Hello and good morning.
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  Speaker 2: Hello, how are you there?
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  Speaker 1: You are? How have you been?
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  Speaker 2: I have been? Well? How about you?
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely fantastic you are. You're a dream come true because
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  Speaker 1: when I started this, this thing called Missed Opportunity, it
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  Speaker 1: was it was just to see if if people would
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  Speaker 1: actually reach back out to me. And my god, you
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  Speaker 1: did it. I was I just I just wanted to
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  Speaker 1: cry because it was like, oh my god, she totally
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  Speaker 1: gets it that the story is not over yet, that
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  Speaker 1: it continues to grow forward as a writer. For you, yep, absolutely,
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  Speaker 1: And how you put pin to paper or your fingers
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  Speaker 1: on that keyboard and just let yourself create. Because you
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  Speaker 1: tend to write about things that people really can relate with.
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  Speaker 1: Where does that come from in your personality?
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  Speaker 2: Oh? I would say that it's mostly that I really
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  Speaker 2: connect when I read with characters who are less than perfect,
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  Speaker 2: because that's just the reality of who we are. Some
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  Speaker 2: of the you can have the best intentions in the
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  Speaker 2: world and sometimes you just make a poor decision and
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  Speaker 2: it doesn't mean you're a bad person. It means you're human.
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  Speaker 2: And it's that kind of I want to try to
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  Speaker 2: capture that in the things I write.
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  Speaker 1: That right there paints the picture of Laura Stone is
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  Speaker 1: what it does, because I mean with her music and recovery,
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  Speaker 1: to do is find somebody who loves her for her
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  Speaker 1: And you know how many musicians probably go through this.
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  Speaker 1: Don't love me because I'm a rock star. In fact,
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  Speaker 1: my wife said to me, she goes, I know people
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  Speaker 1: more famous than you do. Not give me your DJ
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  Speaker 1: ego crap, And I went, oh, so I can really
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  Speaker 1: relate with Laura Stone here.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think for her as a character, having
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  Speaker 2: that relationship in her past that was so powerful and
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  Speaker 2: so formative for her to then move into that world
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  Speaker 2: of music and fame and suddenly not really trusting do
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  Speaker 2: people want to be close to me for me or
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  Speaker 2: close to me because of who I am or what
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  Speaker 2: I am or what I can do for them, and
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  Speaker 2: not being able to let go of that. You know,
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  Speaker 2: he was the one I think was the only one
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  Speaker 2: who loved me for me.
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  Speaker 1: How that.
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  Speaker 2: Shaped her for good or good or ill as she
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  Speaker 2: moved through life. But as part of the story is
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  Speaker 2: I also wanted to get into the idea that people
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  Speaker 2: also as you grow, you change, and the relationships you
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  Speaker 2: had when you were seventeen or eighteen, those people are
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  Speaker 2: not the same people when they're thirty or thirty five
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  Speaker 2: because they've also grown and experienced and what you think
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  Speaker 2: you had, you did have it and it was probably wonderful,
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  Speaker 2: but recapturing that is probably not realistic.
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  Speaker 1: That is such a positive subject in the way of
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  Speaker 1: bringing something up that people tend to hide on. Because
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  Speaker 1: even with my first wife, I mean, people will ask
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  Speaker 1: me all the time saying, if your twenty one year
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  Speaker 1: old self was here, would they still be in love
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  Speaker 1: with your first wife? Yes? What about your sixty four
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  Speaker 1: year old self? Ooh, I don't know, but you're so
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  Speaker 1: spot on and I'm not the only one who thinks
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  Speaker 1: like this, because you're right, I think that, Oh, that
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  Speaker 1: person in the past, such as Danny, who you know,
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  Speaker 1: is in this storyline, and it's like, well, is Danny
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  Speaker 1: the same person or is there going to be changed here?
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  Speaker 2: Right? Right exactly? And they both have their views on
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  Speaker 2: what they what they think the relationship was, what they
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  Speaker 2: think it should be, and that doesn't necessarily fit with
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  Speaker 2: who they are, and that was one reason I went
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  Speaker 2: back and forth a little bit on whether or not
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  Speaker 2: to have them have the affair and all that, and
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  Speaker 2: it made sense for the characters because of what they
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  Speaker 2: were both trying to recapture, and that for me was
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  Speaker 2: a really challenging thing to write. To try and make
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  Speaker 2: it so that it wasn't about the affair itself, but
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  Speaker 2: about the decisions that led up to it and then
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  Speaker 2: fall out from it, and have that be that liking
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  Speaker 2: the characters enough that you could see it coming and
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  Speaker 2: being like, don't do it. I don't want you to
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  Speaker 2: do it. It's a mistake. Oh damn it, you did it,
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  Speaker 2: and being able to be upset and angry with a
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  Speaker 2: character but also understand why they did what they did.
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  Speaker 2: Even if you don't agree with it.
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  Speaker 1: But you know what's really interesting here, Susan, is that
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  Speaker 1: as a reader, you sit there and you start taking
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  Speaker 1: sides and you become their cheerleader. You want it to work,
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  Speaker 1: You want this to happen. I know about the past,
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  Speaker 1: we were going to do this, but we want it
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  Speaker 1: to work. And it's almost like, as a reader, I
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  Speaker 1: swear to God, we feel like we can fix this,
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  Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, is that even a safe place
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  Speaker 1: to be?
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely?
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  Speaker 1: And in doing that though, it's almost like you put
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  Speaker 1: yourself in the position of knowing who your characters are
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  Speaker 1: while at the same time you know who your readers are.
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  Speaker 1: It's like having two personalities going on at the same time.
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  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. And it was very interesting seeing some reader reactions.
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  Speaker 2: Did have some early readers who gotten very upset that
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  Speaker 2: they had the affair who I even had. One was like,
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  Speaker 2: I would have never read this book if I had
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  Speaker 2: known they were going to have an extramarital affair. And
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  Speaker 2: a little part of me wanted to say, but it
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  Speaker 2: was right on the back of the book. Nah, I
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  Speaker 2: wasn't hiding it. But I also had another one who
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  Speaker 2: reacted like that, But then She put in her review
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  Speaker 2: that she's like, I'm not happy with it. I don't
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  Speaker 2: condone it. She said, but the story wasn't about that.
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  Speaker 2: It was about the fallout of that decision. I was like, Yes,
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  Speaker 2: that's what I wanted a reader to get to. It
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  Speaker 2: was not that they had the affair, but how they
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  Speaker 2: dealt with it afterwards.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Susan Hamilton coming
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  Speaker 1: up next Stoneheart. That's the book we're talking about, plus
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  Speaker 1: a whole lot more. We are back with Susan Hamilton.
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  Speaker 1: Have you sold this idea to Hallmark because it just
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  Speaker 1: feels like that's got that Hallmark vibe about it.
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  Speaker 2: I have not, but I certainly be open to the
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  Speaker 2: conversation with.
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  Speaker 1: Them because it's a modern day reality when it comes
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  Speaker 1: to romance, Because I mean, you know, I mean, I
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  Speaker 1: understand why the person was upset with the love affair.
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  Speaker 1: But the thing about it is is that it really
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  Speaker 1: takes place in real life. It really takes you know,
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  Speaker 1: it's going on. And that's what we said in the
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  Speaker 1: very beginning, is the fact that you write about things
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  Speaker 1: that we're all dealing with and so vicariously we're living
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  Speaker 1: through this situation. With Laura as well as Danny. It's like,
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  Speaker 1: come on, make this thing happen, bend, break it, do something,
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  Speaker 1: and then get the story going. And to me it
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  Speaker 1: reminds me of Charles and Princess di Make it work. Guys, don't,
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  Speaker 1: don't break up, make it work.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So does does that make you a hopeless romantic?
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  Speaker 2: Then? Maybe a little bit, but a little bit, but
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  Speaker 2: I mean in less story and as it gets to
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  Speaker 2: the end, whether or not, you know, Danny and Laurence
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  Speaker 2: stay together or or there's another person that she's meant
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  Speaker 2: to be with that still remains to be seen.
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  Speaker 1: How well did your your fans and followers go into
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: a book like this, because it is kind of a
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  Speaker 1: different kind of a flavor. But at the same time,
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  Speaker 1: while I'm charged up about it and you spoke of
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  Speaker 1: somebody who wasn't, there's always that person in between that
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  Speaker 1: likes it and is sitting there going, Okay, give me more,
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  Speaker 1: give me more, give me another opportunity to fall deeper
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  Speaker 1: in love with your characters.
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  Speaker 2: Mm hm, I was Yeah. I think most people have
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  Speaker 2: received it very positively and have gotten the to the
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  Speaker 2: point where or gotten the point that I was trying
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  Speaker 2: to get across. I did have one person say that
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  Speaker 2: one of the things they really liked was that that
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  Speaker 2: there's a lot of emotional minefields in it. Yeah, you know,
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  Speaker 2: whether it's sibling relationships or a romantic relationship, or regrets
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: or addiction or whatever it is. But they said it
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  Speaker 2: really hit me that it's there's no this is not
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  Speaker 2: a happily ever after romance. So if you're looking for
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  Speaker 2: someone to like ride in and save the day, you're
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  Speaker 2: not going to get it. But it reminds us that
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  Speaker 2: life is life is not black and white or good
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  Speaker 2: or bad along strongly delineated lines, that perfect answers don't
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  Speaker 2: come along all the time, and life's more complicated than
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  Speaker 2: we want it to be. And I think I think
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: that's that middle ground of reader opinion that is really
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  Speaker 2: the sweet spot. Is there's enough stuff in there that
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: makes you go, yeah, I'm not sure about that decision,
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  Speaker 2: But these are people I know, These are people I
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  Speaker 2: care about. That's you know, I'm not going to abandon
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  Speaker 2: them because they made a mistake.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Do you think that readers are too much of a critic,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: because I mean, I know what I go through in
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: radio with different trolls and things like that. But sometimes
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I wonder if people it's like when you come out
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: of a movie theater, what did you like about the movie?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you what I didn't like. Well, that's
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: not what I asked. But you know it's like, yo,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: whoa wow? What made you a critic today? But do
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: you think that we've got too much of a voice?
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Sometimes when it comes to putting out a great novel, I.
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  Speaker 2: Think you're always going to have strong opinions either way.
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  Speaker 2: There's always going to be some people who love your
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: book and it's the best thing ever, and there's always
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: going to be some people who hate it. I try
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  Speaker 2: to look at it is that I, as a writer,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: have to write the best possible book I can for me,
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  Speaker 2: because if I try to please every reader, it's going
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  Speaker 2: to be so watered down. The story is going to disappear.
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  Speaker 1: It's so true. That's it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that it has to be true to what I
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: want to express, and then people will love it or
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  Speaker 2: they will hate it. And that's you know, that's part
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: of it if you think of it, even like when
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: you think of art, I mean, if you look at
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: a Jackson Pollock versus a Rembrandt, they're both masters of
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: their craft, but one of them is going to speak
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  Speaker 2: to you more than the other. It doesn't mean the
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  Speaker 2: other one's not worthwhile. That's just not your cup of tea.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of how I try to approach it
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: from a reader's standpoint is I hope everyone loves it,
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  Speaker 2: but if you don't, that's okay.
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  Speaker 1: I've been known to look at people and say, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't see you inside the writing room when I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: was putting this together. I mean, that would have been
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  Speaker 1: pretty cool if you would have came in and said,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: you know, that doesn't fit, but I don't remember seeing
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  Speaker 1: you there, dude.
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  Speaker 2: Yep.
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  Speaker 1: So, now, how has this affected your writing forward? Because
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  Speaker 1: with a book like Stoneheart, oh my god, I mean
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  Speaker 1: this right here is going to be something that you're
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: always going to fall back on. New habits, new ideas,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: new chance taking, and still you've you still got your history,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: but there's going to be newer areas to explore.
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  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I actually think it's interesting you say that
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  Speaker 2: because I have been working on actually two new manuscripts,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: one and I've kind of gone back to my urban finity.
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  Speaker 2: Well it's more contemporary fantasy. It was supposed to be
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: urban fantasy, but then I realized all the action was
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: taking place outside of the city, which kind of took
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: the urban out of it. But what I noticed about
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: this and is that I think what I've I've taken
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: from Stoneheart is I think I dove deeper into my
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: characters and their backstory that I had in previous books.
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  Speaker 2: You know, for better or worse. You know, you learn
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: something new from everything you write. And I hope that
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: each thing I do is better than the previous one
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  Speaker 2: because I've learned something. But I think I really I
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: got through this first manuscrip it's called The Cardinal Witch,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: and then as I left it with some advanced readers
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: of my friends of mine who give me really early
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  Speaker 2: feedback on direction and tone and do you even like
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  Speaker 2: it from a concept point of view, I didn't want
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: to stop writing while I was waiting, so I started
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  Speaker 2: to do some just play around with some short stories
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  Speaker 2: about some of the secondary characters, and I did such
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  Speaker 2: a deep dive on who they were and what they did,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: and their families and how they react and what relationships
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  Speaker 2: they're going to have like twenty years down the road.
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  Speaker 2: And it's the deepest I've ever gone with my characters,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: and I think, as I'm starting to now edit Cardinal Witch,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: I know so much more about them that I really
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: feel like these are going to be the most interesting
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: and most real characters that I've done so far, and
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I'm super excited about it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, research is showing that that's exactly
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: what readers want. Readers want to feel like that they're
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: stepping into somebody's world that is like their next door
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: neighbor or just somebody they work with. And even even
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: in Stonehearts, you get that vibe because it's almost like
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: we've all seen it, even if we're watching reality TV,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: we've all experienced it. And that's what's fascinating about you.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: And I love the fact that you did character diving
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: because you're right, we don't get that character sometimes and
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: because they just barely do the you know the editor
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: is going to take something out and going, damn it.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: That would have been a great thing to really put more,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: but more in a person's personality in that mm hmm.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And even things like I have one secondary character
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  Speaker 2: in Cardinal Witch who's she's southern to the big family,
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  Speaker 2: and even I even want so I created this like
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  Speaker 2: two page fi family tree to try and sort out
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: nice her, her whole family, and that will never show
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: up on the page. But because I because I know
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  Speaker 2: it about her, it shapes how she moves through the pages.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: And I think she's I think she and the other
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: characters are just yeah, I'm just I'm crazy about them.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: So well, I'm down here in the South, so I
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  Speaker 1: want to know, how did you write that accent in
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: or did you keep did you give her an accent?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Is it somebody that moved down from let's say, Ohio
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: or New York into the South?
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Uh? No, she's from the South. I've tried to because
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: it's a parallel fantasy world. I've tried to stay away
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: from the States, but generally, like Tennessee is area is
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: where I'm thinking. I've tried to put in a few
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: she definitely says y'all. So I've tried to put in
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: a few key words and maybe Southern for you know,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: bless your heart, you know, some some phrases that will
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: key it and hopefully people will hear it in their heads.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: But I did not phonetically write out like I didn't
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: become like ah, that softer sound. I didn't. I didn't
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: want to write it out phonetically because that's that hits
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: the grammarian in me. I can't do that.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when I first came down from Montana, that was
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: one of the first things that the radio station had
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: me do is research everything and all these different quotes
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and comments from Southerners, and one that I mean, I'll
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: talk to a real, honest to God person from the
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: South today and I'll go, why is it In the
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, I would hear those Southern women say, well,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I swine and people look at me today, going what
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: are you talking about? And I said, I swear to God,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: that's all they said back in the nineteen eighties. I
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: instead of saying bless your heart or oh my God,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: it was always say oh my swine. And and it's
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: like it's like, Okay, I get it, that's her, that's
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: their emotions. But you do there's so much of the
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Southern accent and language that is gone. So I'm inspired
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: by the fact that you at least are looking into
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: this on what people do say and react to.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, no. And she's she's been a lot of fun.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: She's a she's she's.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: A very.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Out there character, she's she's very bold. You had a
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: very big personality, So I've had a lot of fun
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: with her.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: She got big hair and she putting that moose still
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: in her hair.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: No, no, she's she's a fiery redhead who wears.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's such a sument. Give her some
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: sweet tea, make that happen. So where can people go
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: to find out more about you, Susan, Because once again,
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: this is the kind of stuff that gets people to talk.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: But more importantly, this is book club material. This is
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: the stuff when I walk into a panara and I
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: see people in a book club in their God, this
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: needs to be a part of it.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. People can find me on my website,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: which is which I have changed since we last talked.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: I did a little bit of a brand reinvention for myself. Yeah,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I had to take a break for some personal reasons
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: we had. I had some my parents passed away, Thank you.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: It was it was a lot and I didn't really
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: have a lot of room for creativity in my brain
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: for a while, so I took a break from writing.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: But when I came back, I was I looked at
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: my website and I looked at some of my stuff,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: and I was like, it just doesn't feel like me. Uh,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: it feels like what I thought people expected of me.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: And I was like, no, no, I don't really like that.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: So I like totally dumped the old website. I created
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: a new one. So the new one is redfoxwriter dot com.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Love that.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: So they can find my site there. I have the
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: books listed there, I have some reviews. I do do
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: an occasional newsletter like every other month if there's something
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: to say, so people can sign up for that. I
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: did start a little blog on it as well, which
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I've been having some fun with. My books are available
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: on most of the online outlets Amazon, Barnes and Noble,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: things like that, but they are certainly orderable if you
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: prefer to shop at local indie bookstores, which I which
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I highly highly encourage. Odds are it won't be on
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: the shelf there, but they can absolutely order it out
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: of the database for you.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, all right, miss read Fox. I don't know
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: if you know this about me, but I'm very much
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: into animal totemism, and so when you said fox, of course,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you that that what the Fox
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: represents is trust in intuition, and it is. And a
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: fox is always weary of someone you're involved with who's
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: attempting to trick you in some way. Your intelligence and
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: integrity are more useful. So when I hear that word
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: fox in there, I'm good down. Why God, she's so
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: spot on and what she's doing as a writer. And
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: as a writer, you're in the background, because that's what
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: a fox. They're always in the background. You'll see them,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: but they're in the background. So is an author of
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: a book. Yes, oh, you got the right name. You
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: have got the right name. Wow, Well, you got to
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: come back to this show anytime in the future. The
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: door is always going to be open for you. And
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: when Hallmark reaches out to you and you've got all
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: those actors and stuff on there, I'd probably talked to
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: them already. But the thing is, I still want to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: talk to him because it's going to be your words
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: coming through them through their emotions and acting ability.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: I would love that.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? Okay?
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you you as well.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Thank you