Transcript

Sharri | 13 May · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Live on Sky News.
0:03
Speaker 2: This is Shari.
0:06
Speaker 3: Good evening and welcome to the program.
0:07
Speaker 4: I'm Danikiti Giorgio filling in tonight for Shari. Coming up
0:10
Speaker 4: on the show, Susan Lee's first day as opposition leader.
0:13
Speaker 3: Left a lot to be desired.
0:15
Speaker 4: I'll give you my take, and Senator Dave Shamel will
0:18
Speaker 4: try to change my mind. Is the coalition's commitment to
0:21
Speaker 4: net zero about to be abandoned? David Little Proud dropped
0:24
Speaker 4: a big hint. Frowen Bishop and David Elliott will join
0:27
Speaker 4: me next. And the new look Labor Ministry has us
0:30
Speaker 4: asking is the misinformation bill coming back? I'll get to
0:34
Speaker 4: that later in the show, but first tonight, I really
0:38
Speaker 4: really want to believe the Liberal Party is ready to
0:42
Speaker 4: take the ball by the horns, regroup after the thumping
0:45
Speaker 4: election loss, and be a clear and strong alternative to Labor.
0:50
Speaker 3: But honestly, I'm not sure yet.
0:54
Speaker 4: Susan Lee has been elected leader of the Liberal Party,
0:57
Speaker 4: the first female leader of the Liberal Party, backed in
1:00
Speaker 4: by the Liberal Left, and congratulations to her for being
1:03
Speaker 4: the first female. Yes, it does carry weight now, personally,
1:07
Speaker 4: I don't care about the gender of an individual in
1:10
Speaker 4: a high profile role as long as they can do
1:12
Speaker 4: the job, and that they've gotten.
1:14
Speaker 3: There through merit.
1:16
Speaker 4: Now, she's a mother, a grandmother, a very smart woman.
1:20
Speaker 4: She's been a commercial pilot, a farmer, an air traffic controller,
1:24
Speaker 4: amongst other things, and of course was recently the deputy
1:28
Speaker 4: Opposition leader. And perhaps she can portray a softer side
1:32
Speaker 4: than what the party was able to do with Peter Dutton.
1:36
Speaker 4: But the question now is, and this is key, is
1:40
Speaker 4: she the person to lift the party out of one
1:43
Speaker 4: of its biggest crises? And I'm not yet convinced. And
1:50
Speaker 4: now is the time for a quick reset, especially as
1:52
Speaker 4: we face another three years of labor, a party which
1:56
Speaker 4: has already left us broke backwards, divided in a trillion
2:01
Speaker 4: dollars of debt, more exposed than ever on the defense front,
2:04
Speaker 4: with a broken renewable system, and in the lurch for
2:07
Speaker 4: the future. And I want to give Susan Lee the
2:10
Speaker 4: benefit of the doubt, give her a go, I really do,
2:13
Speaker 4: and I hope for the sake of the party that
2:16
Speaker 4: she is going to take it forward. But if Susan
2:19
Speaker 4: Lee cannot put up a genuine alternative policy to labor,
2:24
Speaker 4: and I'll read today we didn't really get a lot
2:26
Speaker 4: of certainty on that, albeit it is early days obviously,
2:29
Speaker 4: then it's goodbye. The Liberals will be in the wilderness
2:32
Speaker 4: for years and I will have more on policy in
2:34
Speaker 4: a moment.
2:35
Speaker 3: But here she was today pledging that she is up
2:37
Speaker 3: for the job.
2:39
Speaker 5: We listened to the Australian people on Saturday and we
2:42
Speaker 5: will continue to listen to them around the country. We
2:46
Speaker 5: have to have a Liberal party that respects modern Australia,
2:51
Speaker 5: that reflects modern Australia, and that represents modern Australia. And
2:57
Speaker 5: we have to meet the people where they are. And
3:00
Speaker 5: that's what I am committed to doing. Are what I'm
3:03
Speaker 5: determined to do. I want to do things differently and
3:08
Speaker 5: we have to have a fresh approach.
3:11
Speaker 4: And a fresh approach is absolutely needed. But this was
3:14
Speaker 4: not a resounding victory for Susan Lee. She was voted
3:17
Speaker 4: in twenty nine to twenty five to Shadow treasurer Angus Taylor. Now,
3:21
Speaker 4: if you take away the votes of Linda Reynolds, Holly
3:23
Speaker 4: Hughes and Richard Colbeck who were leaving because of the
3:26
Speaker 4: Senate and all who voted for her, or realistically it
3:29
Speaker 4: leaves her with twenty six votes, it's almost a tie.
3:32
Speaker 3: It's not a convincing win.
3:34
Speaker 4: So the question is is she keeping the seat warm
3:37
Speaker 4: for a few years only to be rolled at the
3:39
Speaker 4: eleventh hour ahead of the next election.
3:41
Speaker 3: It is hardly a case for unification. Now.
3:44
Speaker 4: Secondly, she spoke there about Liberal party values, but what
3:48
Speaker 4: does that mean because we've got a moderate opposition leader
3:51
Speaker 4: in Susan Lee and a moderate deputy in Ted O'Brien.
3:55
Speaker 4: So not only do the Liberals abandon their conservative base
3:58
Speaker 4: through their labor light policies and position changes at the election,
4:01
Speaker 4: they now have voted in two moderates, yet hope to
4:04
Speaker 4: reclaim their base and hope for this fresh approach.
4:07
Speaker 3: And call me cynical, but.
4:08
Speaker 4: This is unconvincing to me and hardly inspiring. And yes,
4:12
Speaker 4: of course it comes down to policies. Yes, it comes
4:15
Speaker 4: down to having an alternative.
4:17
Speaker 3: But already I fear.
4:18
Speaker 4: This new Liberal Party is off to a shaky start.
4:21
Speaker 4: First on nuclear policy, here was Susan Lee and.
4:24
Speaker 6: Having federal government own nuclear power stations?
4:27
Speaker 7: Is that going to be your position? Do you think
4:29
Speaker 7: going forward?
4:30
Speaker 5: We'll just hear in this party room. Only a couple
4:31
Speaker 5: of hours ago I committed to my colleagues that there
4:35
Speaker 5: would be no captain's calls from anywhere by me, and
4:39
Speaker 5: I also committed during the discussions I had with them
4:42
Speaker 5: this week that we would work through every single policy issue,
4:45
Speaker 5: we would canvass the different views and we would take
4:48
Speaker 5: the time to get it right.
4:50
Speaker 4: Now, of course, it had only been hours since she
4:52
Speaker 4: was voted in. But compare this to National's leader David
4:55
Speaker 4: Little Proud yesterday.
4:57
Speaker 8: We've had the courage on nucleanergy, something our party room
5:01
Speaker 8: has believed in for a very long time, and all
5:03
Speaker 8: renewables approach won't work. But it was our party room,
5:07
Speaker 8: from many people before us, that had the courage to
5:09
Speaker 8: come forward.
5:09
Speaker 1: But it was us. It was our party room that
5:11
Speaker 1: delivered it.
5:12
Speaker 4: The two very contrasting answers, and the point is if
5:15
Speaker 4: he's not making captain calls, then the Liberal left may triumph,
5:19
Speaker 4: and that is a worry if serious and hard decisions
5:22
Speaker 4: are not made by its leader.
5:23
Speaker 3: Take this for example, this is.
5:26
Speaker 2: A policy that went to an election. The election result
5:30
Speaker 2: was devastating, so the message from the community is very
5:33
Speaker 2: very clear, and that's why I believe that this nuclear
5:37
Speaker 2: policy has to go unbelievable.
5:40
Speaker 4: And if that's the case, the Liberals would have learnt
5:42
Speaker 4: nothing because we need nuclear energy to shore up supply
5:45
Speaker 4: in this country.
5:46
Speaker 3: It is the only.
5:48
Speaker 4: Option and nuclear was a key point of difference you
5:51
Speaker 4: remember for the coalition before it ran away from.
5:55
Speaker 3: It In the dying weeks of the campaign.
5:58
Speaker 9: Why didn't you go to the site to marked for
6:00
Speaker 9: a nuclear reactor? Why didn't you get eighty by your
6:03
Speaker 9: side at press conferences every week and try and sell
6:05
Speaker 9: this policy.
6:06
Speaker 10: I got the feeling you dropped it like a hot potato.
6:09
Speaker 2: It's not been a huge issue at this election cap
6:12
Speaker 2: either four against. I think people have prioritized other issues
6:15
Speaker 2: and that's probably where the campaigns concentrate.
6:19
Speaker 3: Now.
6:19
Speaker 4: If you're not going to go bold, you won't win elections,
6:21
Speaker 4: and that should be the lesson from this election. We
6:24
Speaker 4: know nuclear is a proven energy resource in powerhouses like
6:28
Speaker 4: the US and UK, and if we want to keep
6:30
Speaker 4: the lights on nuclear is it now secondly on net
6:35
Speaker 4: zero by twenty fifty.
6:38
Speaker 5: There are different views about how we appropriately reduce emissions. Now.
6:41
Speaker 5: We need to reduce emissions in this country and Australia
6:44
Speaker 5: needs to play its part in reducing emissions.
6:48
Speaker 4: But the problem is this again may put the party
6:50
Speaker 4: at odds with the nationals, as David Little Proud has
6:54
Speaker 4: put ditching that target on the table.
6:57
Speaker 8: You cannot run an economy of the industrial scale the
7:00
Speaker 8: size of Australia on an llor renewables approach.
7:03
Speaker 1: Just look at Spain and Portugal.
7:05
Speaker 8: The reality is is even Anthony Albanezi is saying your
7:08
Speaker 8: energy bill is going to go up, not down. And
7:10
Speaker 8: so what we'll do is calmly and methodically work through
7:13
Speaker 8: our policy settings and what that means to make sure
7:17
Speaker 8: that we have a position that addresses the cost of
7:21
Speaker 8: living crisis.
7:21
Speaker 1: Because energy is the economy now.
7:23
Speaker 4: If the Liberals want to win back the base, ditch
7:26
Speaker 4: net zero by twenty fifty because the world's biggest emitters,
7:29
Speaker 4: including the US and China, are moving away from this
7:31
Speaker 4: target and are in favor of nuclear. This renewables fantasy,
7:35
Speaker 4: we know is a disaster in this country. It is
7:38
Speaker 4: plunging us further into the darkness during heat waves and
7:40
Speaker 4: cold snaps, all the while coal is being driven out
7:44
Speaker 4: of the system. The Paris Agreement is a joke. It's
7:47
Speaker 4: a waste of our time.
7:49
Speaker 3: We have to keep moving forward with keeping the lights
7:52
Speaker 3: on in this country now.
7:53
Speaker 4: Our third policy point is on female representation in the
7:56
Speaker 4: Liberal Party three years ago, it was the same old
8:00
Speaker 4: tysome narrative that the election loss.
8:02
Speaker 3: Was due to a lack of women.
8:04
Speaker 4: Three years later, there are calls again for gender quotas.
8:08
Speaker 4: Look what an absolute diabolical insult in my view, to
8:12
Speaker 4: have women in Parliament because of their gender, not on merit,
8:16
Speaker 4: not because they're the best person for the job, not
8:19
Speaker 4: because they've earned it, but because of their gender. And
8:22
Speaker 4: this is not why the Liberal Party lost the election.
8:25
Speaker 4: It is true that earlier this year women strongly favored
8:28
Speaker 4: the Coalition, but by the end of April that had
8:30
Speaker 4: blown up. If you look there, the Coalition's lead among
8:33
Speaker 4: female voters reversed from fifty one to forty nine in
8:36
Speaker 4: January to forty six to fifty four in favor of Labor.
8:39
Speaker 4: That was a week out from the poll. But this
8:41
Speaker 4: was largely due to its work from home policy, and
8:44
Speaker 4: Susan Lee wasn't shying away from the possibility of quotas
8:47
Speaker 4: when asked today.
8:49
Speaker 5: I want to say, right here and now, we need
8:51
Speaker 5: more women in our party. We need more women in
8:54
Speaker 5: our party organization, We need more women in this party room.
8:57
Speaker 5: Had we done better at the last election, we would
8:59
Speaker 5: have standing women in this party room. Deputy opposed to
9:02
Speaker 5: quotas and targets women.
9:05
Speaker 3: I support what the leaders just said.
9:07
Speaker 5: A came moving alone.
9:09
Speaker 4: Look, she's not wrong about more female representation, but still
9:13
Speaker 4: there was no definitive answer there. And it's not about
9:16
Speaker 4: more female representation or moving to the center, because the
9:19
Speaker 4: more you raise this gender card, the more you stray
9:22
Speaker 4: away from those conservative values, and goodness me, you may
9:25
Speaker 4: as well be the Labor Party. Then with quotas, it's
9:27
Speaker 4: about a strong, cohesive policy platform reflecting those values and
9:31
Speaker 4: also policy which reflects women. Now, the other point I
9:35
Speaker 4: would make here is on just sent to nampajimp Price.
9:37
Speaker 4: She pulled out of the deputy leadership role after it
9:40
Speaker 4: became apparent Angus Taylor was not going to win, and
9:43
Speaker 4: I really hope her defection from the Nationals has not
9:46
Speaker 4: been a waste of time because politics is tough, it
9:49
Speaker 4: is so brutal, and this is a woman who, in
9:51
Speaker 4: my view, is a born leader and one of the
9:53
Speaker 4: only voices of common sense. She single handedly helped get
9:57
Speaker 4: that no vote in the Voice to Parliament referendum over
9:59
Speaker 4: the line.
10:00
Speaker 3: She clearly loves this country, does not.
10:02
Speaker 4: Seek to divide us by the color of our skin,
10:04
Speaker 4: and she really sticks to her values, and it would
10:07
Speaker 4: be of detriment to the party in this reboot phase
10:10
Speaker 4: not to give Senator Price a key role in the
10:13
Speaker 4: shadow cabinet and make her front and center, not hidden like.
10:17
Speaker 3: She was during the election campaign.
10:20
Speaker 4: And I really hope, for the sake of moving this
10:22
Speaker 4: party forward and for the sake of actually having any
10:25
Speaker 4: chances of winning elections, that this is indeed a winning
10:28
Speaker 4: ticket of Susan Lee and Ted O'Brien. But the Opposition
10:32
Speaker 4: lost the election because they went Labor light. And look
10:35
Speaker 4: at the contrast now. The Labor Cabinet met today to
10:38
Speaker 4: take their group photo. They're all smiles but unified, and
10:43
Speaker 4: the Liberals, fresh from a leadership ballot, are now desperately
10:47
Speaker 4: trying to rebuild after their election loss with a leader
10:50
Speaker 4: who just scraped over the line. They have no clear
10:55
Speaker 4: policies yet and are largely becoming at odds with their
10:58
Speaker 4: coalition partners, the Nationals and the Nats are basically propping
11:01
Speaker 4: up the coalition right now because they're not the ones
11:03
Speaker 4: who've lost a lot of seats, and this is an
11:06
Speaker 4: opposition which would want to shape up pretty quick if
11:09
Speaker 4: they want to have any chance of beating the Labor Party,
11:12
Speaker 4: Susan Lee faces a massive challenge, but the question is
11:16
Speaker 4: will she go bold or will the Liberals face years
11:20
Speaker 4: in the wilderness.
11:24
Speaker 3: Well for more on that.
11:25
Speaker 4: Joining me now is former Speaker of the House Bromin
11:27
Speaker 4: Bishop and forming New South Wales Police Minister David Elliott
11:30
Speaker 4: Hight To both of you, thank you so much for
11:32
Speaker 4: joining me on the show this evening. Bron We'll start
11:34
Speaker 4: with you. Is Susan Lee the right choice for the party?
11:36
Speaker 4: How do you feel about the appointment?
11:38
Speaker 10: I think it is quite an achievement for the Liberal
11:42
Speaker 10: Party to have a woman leader, and as someone who's
11:46
Speaker 10: been the first in many positions in my political life,
11:49
Speaker 10: I congratulate Susan one hundred percent on achieving that she
11:54
Speaker 10: now has a great opportunity. Now there's were all sorts
11:58
Speaker 10: of criticism being thrown her, but she's had it before
12:03
Speaker 10: and she's been able to stand up to it. She's
12:07
Speaker 10: been on the hustings, and when you've been on the
12:09
Speaker 10: hustings and you've been in the small groups as well
12:11
Speaker 10: as the large groups, you learn a lot about what
12:15
Speaker 10: you've got to do to put policy that appeals to
12:18
Speaker 10: those people together. So I think people have got to
12:22
Speaker 10: give her a go. And as I've said before, I
12:26
Speaker 10: sat for twenty years in the Parliament with that Anthony
12:29
Speaker 10: Alvern easy and nobody but nobody ever said he was
12:32
Speaker 10: a leader. And yet now he's won ninety two seats.
12:37
Speaker 10: So politics is a very fickle game. It can surprise you,
12:42
Speaker 10: it can something can arise up and things change and
12:47
Speaker 10: you have to be prepared to do it. And I
12:50
Speaker 10: think she's got to be given a go. And I
12:52
Speaker 10: think for the Level Party to have a female leader
12:56
Speaker 10: is a recognition that women in the Liberal Party can
13:01
Speaker 10: get there without quotas one hundred.
13:04
Speaker 4: You know this quotea's nonsense, really really bothers me. I
13:07
Speaker 4: think it's actually offensive, to be honest, at I find
13:09
Speaker 4: it now. I find it highly highly offensive. David I
13:12
Speaker 4: asked the question there in Madatorial. Is Susan Lee the
13:15
Speaker 4: one that can pull this Liberal Party out of one
13:18
Speaker 4: of its biggest crises?
13:19
Speaker 3: Yes or no?
13:20
Speaker 7: Yes she is, And I'll tell you what she has
13:23
Speaker 7: got the experience. She's been there for twenty years. She's
13:25
Speaker 7: more than twenty years. She has proven herself as a
13:28
Speaker 7: loyal deputy. And your colleagues look at you and your
13:31
Speaker 7: commitment to loyalty in sub leadership roles before they decide
13:35
Speaker 7: to put you in leadership role. So she's proven, she's
13:37
Speaker 7: proven that, unlike Anthony Abernezi, she's had real jobs. She
13:41
Speaker 7: had a significant career before she entered parliament, so she
13:44
Speaker 7: can draw on real world experiences. Setting her gender aside.
13:48
Speaker 7: I think she has got a very appealing approach to people.
13:52
Speaker 7: I think she's articulate. What she does need she needs
13:57
Speaker 7: right now is a head kicker. And I don't think
13:59
Speaker 7: Tedday Brown as the head kicker. I think we've really
14:01
Speaker 7: stuffed up with him as a deputy leader. But she
14:03
Speaker 7: will rely on people like Andrew Hasty, She'll rely on
14:06
Speaker 7: people like just Senter Price.
14:07
Speaker 1: She'll rely on.
14:08
Speaker 7: People, certainly the Victorian Liberals to make sure that we
14:12
Speaker 7: don't lose our standing with the urban vote, because it's
14:17
Speaker 7: that Victorian vote that needs to now be moved to
14:21
Speaker 7: Western Sydney so we can pick up similar seats and
14:24
Speaker 7: demographics in Western Sydney.
14:26
Speaker 3: What do you think of Tett O'Brien's appointment from Well.
14:30
Speaker 10: I think he's showed himself in that debate that he
14:32
Speaker 10: had with Bowen to be right on top of Boone.
14:35
Speaker 3: Oh, definitely think.
14:38
Speaker 10: I think everyone gave him a great, big chair. So
14:41
Speaker 10: he's now going to have the opportunity to define further
14:47
Speaker 10: the policy he took. And one option they can go
14:51
Speaker 10: is and it's something that I thought was perhaps the
14:55
Speaker 10: way they should have gone earlier, is say, we will
14:58
Speaker 10: remove the innig reality of uranium. We will make it
15:02
Speaker 10: legal to build you your reactors and to have nuclear
15:07
Speaker 10: power and let the market see if they're going to
15:10
Speaker 10: build it and invest in it. Yeah, and I suggest
15:13
Speaker 10: that probably will well.
15:14
Speaker 3: Hope, you'd hope so, you'd really hope so.
15:16
Speaker 4: And that's why they need some clear, definitive policies urgent.
15:20
Speaker 10: But what was so killing for Peter Dutton was he
15:24
Speaker 10: didn't fight back on that six hundred billion dollar figure.
15:28
Speaker 10: It was a lie, it was, but it wasn't refuted.
15:30
Speaker 10: You've got to refute things again and again and again
15:33
Speaker 10: and again.
15:33
Speaker 3: It was like Medicare. It was like the Medicare.
15:35
Speaker 4: You know, Albo was out there every day with that
15:37
Speaker 4: Medicare cand It was the same thing.
15:39
Speaker 10: I could have heard of.
15:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, look, I completely a.
15:42
Speaker 4: Great let's move on because I talked about the Just
15:45
Speaker 4: Center napagym for price debarcle.
15:47
Speaker 8: There.
15:47
Speaker 3: Obviously, she pulled out of the race for opposition deputy.
15:51
Speaker 4: Now she explained that decision a little earlier on the
15:53
Speaker 4: Kenny Report.
15:54
Speaker 3: This is what she said.
15:56
Speaker 11: I declared that I was running on a leadership ticket
16:01
Speaker 11: with Angus Taylor, and I had made my mind up
16:07
Speaker 11: prior too that if Angus was unsuccessful that I would
16:10
Speaker 11: allow on you that Ted wanted to run for the
16:13
Speaker 11: deputy leadership, that I wouldn't contest that and withdraw from
16:18
Speaker 11: that point onward.
16:20
Speaker 4: But she also dropped this line which I'm sure got
16:22
Speaker 4: conservatives quite excited.
16:25
Speaker 8: And to big Prime Minister, of course she need to
16:26
Speaker 8: go to the Lower House.
16:28
Speaker 11: Well, there is that, you know, and I know there's
16:29
Speaker 11: a lot of Australians who'd love to see that. But
16:31
Speaker 11: right now, as I said, you know, my focus is
16:33
Speaker 11: the Senate.
16:34
Speaker 4: I mean, it sounded to me, David like there's still
16:36
Speaker 4: some leadership ambition.
16:37
Speaker 3: In her, there's still some fights. But what do you
16:40
Speaker 3: make of that?
16:41
Speaker 7: Well, I don't think this lady's for turning. I think
16:42
Speaker 7: we just seeing here is certainly somebody that is going
16:45
Speaker 7: to pursue a political career. I think that she should
16:48
Speaker 7: be brought down into the Lower House. She can prosecute
16:50
Speaker 7: a debate. We saw that in the Voice and anybody
16:53
Speaker 7: who thinks that you know, the election result has turned.
16:56
Speaker 7: This shown that the Australian electorate has gone left of center,
16:59
Speaker 7: has forgot about the voice response in the electorate. And
17:03
Speaker 7: she's one of the reasons why we got that. We
17:05
Speaker 7: got that look, so we've got that result. So I
17:07
Speaker 7: think we've just center. She needs to be harnessed, she
17:10
Speaker 7: needs to be mentored, she needs to be given an
17:12
Speaker 7: opportunity to go out and forge her own brand in
17:16
Speaker 7: the electorate, because I can tell you she's a vote
17:19
Speaker 7: winner for us, She's a vote winner for the Liberal Party.
17:21
Speaker 7: And I think that the more Susan Leigh stands next
17:25
Speaker 7: to the center price and people like Melinda McIntosh, Melissa McIntosh,
17:30
Speaker 7: the more we're going to be able to attract those
17:32
Speaker 7: votes that have got to come back.
17:34
Speaker 4: Do you agree, Brolin, that she could still be a
17:36
Speaker 4: star power within Absolutely?
17:39
Speaker 10: Absolutely, And all this business about being elected on a
17:43
Speaker 10: national party ticket, it's just not true. She is a
17:45
Speaker 10: member of the Country Liberal Party and traditionally when we
17:50
Speaker 10: had a senator and member for Solomon, one would sit
17:54
Speaker 10: in each House, in each party group. Now that we're
17:57
Speaker 10: down to just having a senator, we don't have a
18:01
Speaker 10: lower House seat in the Northern Territory. Well, she's free
18:04
Speaker 10: to choose where she sits.
18:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you still think, though, but do you think
18:08
Speaker 4: she should have a real prominent role now she should?
18:10
Speaker 3: Yeah. I hope that Susan Lee gives her I really
18:13
Speaker 3: really do hope.
18:14
Speaker 4: So I won't to talk about dumping net zero by
18:17
Speaker 4: twenty fifty. It was mentioned today at the press conference.
18:21
Speaker 4: Now it's clear that the Nationals are looking to drop
18:24
Speaker 4: that target. Other big power houses around the world are
18:28
Speaker 4: not even thinking about that target anymore.
18:30
Speaker 3: But where does this leave the coalition? More broadly, if
18:33
Speaker 3: you've got two possibly opposing narratives here, how do you
18:37
Speaker 3: see this playing out?
18:38
Speaker 7: Well, targets that far out are just a complete waste
18:42
Speaker 7: of time because nobody is going to be held accountable
18:45
Speaker 7: for the lack of meeting it, and quite frankly, nobody
18:48
Speaker 7: believes it. I mean, the Liberal Party needs to highlight
18:51
Speaker 7: the fact that we are we believe as conservatives that
18:54
Speaker 7: we should be good custodians of the earth, and there
18:57
Speaker 7: being good custodians of the earth means we're we're committed
19:01
Speaker 7: to bringing down levels of pollution, bringing down liberals of
19:04
Speaker 7: carbon emission, replacing them with clean energy without destroying our economy.
19:09
Speaker 7: And that's the that's the debate that we always have
19:12
Speaker 7: in Western Sydney seats conservative in the Western Sydney seats,
19:15
Speaker 7: in the north west of Sydney, we have the highest
19:17
Speaker 7: number of families having solar panels on their roofs than
19:21
Speaker 7: per capita, than anywhere else. That's that is a liberal
19:23
Speaker 7: voting area and they have all the highest number. Now
19:26
Speaker 7: what is that to you? It means that when that
19:27
Speaker 7: worked out that renewable energy is cheaper than what is
19:33
Speaker 7: what in the conventional energy, they'll move to it. But
19:35
Speaker 7: they're not going to be lectured to. They're certainly not
19:37
Speaker 7: going to be told you have to have their energy
19:41
Speaker 7: policy linked to things like the voice and linked to
19:44
Speaker 7: things like gender equality and linked to things that got
19:47
Speaker 7: nothing to do with the economy of energy. And that's
19:49
Speaker 7: what's happened. That's why the Greens lost. They forgot that
19:53
Speaker 7: they were there to be environmentalists and they started being
19:57
Speaker 7: They started presenting themselves as the thought police.
19:59
Speaker 4: So they were running all these air campaigns they were
20:01
Speaker 4: going completely alarmists. They were just going into a completely
20:04
Speaker 4: different direction. Now they're so irrelevant in this political clime.
20:07
Speaker 7: And trying to argue in the same sentence, we've got
20:10
Speaker 7: to have renewables, but by the way, we've got a
20:12
Speaker 7: free Palestine. Oh, just confuses people.
20:14
Speaker 3: You know, it's ridiculous.
20:15
Speaker 10: Well, look, I don't think the Greens are worth discussing.
20:18
Speaker 10: They're still a vile party, yeah, truly vile. And their
20:22
Speaker 10: voters dropped and as I've said before, these minor parties
20:28
Speaker 10: usually last about twenty five to thirty years, whether it's
20:31
Speaker 10: the DLP, whether it was the Democrats. Well the Greens
20:36
Speaker 10: picked up what was left of the Democrats and put
20:40
Speaker 10: it into their vote. Something else will happen. But they're
20:43
Speaker 10: on the decline.
20:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, and just want to get your opinion there on
20:46
Speaker 4: net zero by twenty.
20:47
Speaker 3: Fifteen, I'm a little proud. Was pretty cold.
20:50
Speaker 10: It sounds like that.
20:50
Speaker 3: That's a confident that they don't want this.
20:52
Speaker 10: Listen, we should never have signed up in the first place.
20:55
Speaker 10: I mean, there are many things the many things I
20:58
Speaker 10: can say about Scott Morrison. That was the worst thing
21:00
Speaker 10: you ever did. It took away all the advantage we
21:05
Speaker 10: had in giving a sensible energy policy to the country.
21:10
Speaker 10: So sooner we're out of it, the better. As far
21:12
Speaker 10: as I'm concerned, I can see that seventy percent of
21:15
Speaker 10: the world is not in it. Yeah, point Russia, China,
21:20
Speaker 10: the United States, all his big economies nothing to do
21:24
Speaker 10: with it. And it's twenty fifty. I mean, what's going
21:28
Speaker 10: to happening with.
21:29
Speaker 3: The coalition on this from You think it's all chatter.
21:32
Speaker 3: You don't think that there will be a split down
21:34
Speaker 3: the middle.
21:35
Speaker 10: Look, there is always a discussion about whether or not
21:38
Speaker 10: the National Party wants to go on its own for
21:40
Speaker 10: a bit after there's been a loss. It's happened every
21:44
Speaker 10: now and again. But they come back together again because
21:46
Speaker 10: they were fundamentally part of the first Compact. When Mensis
21:50
Speaker 10: formed the Liberal Party. The National Party didn't want to
21:53
Speaker 10: give up its own identity and join in. But the
21:57
Speaker 10: coalition was forged and has been going for eighty year.
22:00
Speaker 3: Is so no change, no change, no change? Fair enough.
22:04
Speaker 4: Now, Look it's not just the Coalition who has a
22:06
Speaker 4: new face, but Labor as well, which has undergone a
22:08
Speaker 4: ministerial shake up. But most prominently Anthony I Abneasy dumped
22:12
Speaker 4: ed Husick and Mark Dreyfus and the PM didn't have
22:15
Speaker 4: a lot to say about it.
22:16
Speaker 3: Have a listen.
22:18
Speaker 7: Mark or either Mark Dreyfus saw it Husick to say
22:21
Speaker 7: in the ministry and if not, why not.
22:23
Speaker 12: Look, we have a process in the Labor Party caucus.
22:25
Speaker 1: You've been watching it for some time.
22:28
Speaker 4: What do you think, David on the flicking of both
22:31
Speaker 4: Dreyfus and Ed Husick Houston, he was very angry about
22:35
Speaker 4: it over the week.
22:35
Speaker 3: How I thought it was winging personally?
22:37
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not very smart to have
22:40
Speaker 7: a crack at your boss when you've just been demoted,
22:42
Speaker 7: because it makes it very hard for them to promote
22:43
Speaker 7: you again. But I mean, if I've ever had to
22:47
Speaker 7: have some self reflection about why I joined the Liberal
22:49
Speaker 7: Party over the Labor Party, what happened in the last
22:51
Speaker 7: seventy two hours is a classic example of why I
22:54
Speaker 7: did that, because they are not a meritocracy, and they
22:57
Speaker 7: both they celebrate the fact that they had to go
23:00
Speaker 7: to the factions and the factions had to divvy up
23:03
Speaker 7: the job, and as a result, Ed Husick.
23:05
Speaker 1: Got the sack.
23:05
Speaker 7: Now, I didn't think Ed was a bad MP. I
23:07
Speaker 7: don't think he was a bad minister. I think he
23:10
Speaker 7: pursued like Drapust. They were both important because of the
23:13
Speaker 7: demographics they represented as well, and you know, they could
23:16
Speaker 7: have played a very very important role in positioning Australia
23:19
Speaker 7: when it comes to Middle Eastern politics for a start.
23:22
Speaker 7: So I mean, obviously Drapus has been there for a
23:24
Speaker 7: very very long time, so maybe it was a little
23:26
Speaker 7: bit of a little bit of tenure there that saw
23:30
Speaker 7: him leave. But I think I think ed Husick being
23:33
Speaker 7: dumped for no other reason. It's because they had somebody
23:36
Speaker 7: else that they needed to pay off. That's that's bad politics.
23:39
Speaker 3: Well, I was interesting as well.
23:40
Speaker 4: Tanya Plipasek has been demoted well again, I mean now
23:44
Speaker 4: she's Social Services Minister. Look as Environment Minister bro when
23:47
Speaker 4: she made that dreadful decision about the blaming mere.
23:49
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:50
Speaker 10: But I want to say something about Dreyfus Music Rayfus
23:56
Speaker 10: is useless. He's the man who gave two million dollars
23:59
Speaker 10: to Michigan on a twenty twenty four hour turnaround. He's
24:03
Speaker 10: got a lot to answer for and he didn't come
24:05
Speaker 10: out being vocal on issues when I think he should
24:08
Speaker 10: have been.
24:08
Speaker 3: That was my view.
24:10
Speaker 10: So and when I used to throw him out when
24:12
Speaker 10: I was speaker. Nobody cared. No one on the Labor
24:17
Speaker 10: Party cared with regard to mister Hughsack. I've never seen
24:22
Speaker 10: such a winder in my life. He joined a collectivist party.
24:26
Speaker 10: Collectivist rules means that collective rules and individuals can be
24:31
Speaker 10: sacrificed to the collective. He was perfectly happy for that
24:34
Speaker 10: to be when he got promoted. Now he's going around winching.
24:38
Speaker 10: He was a minister of no particular outstanding virtue. I
24:42
Speaker 10: can't think of the thing he did that is notable,
24:45
Speaker 10: can you?
24:45
Speaker 1: No?
24:46
Speaker 3: Are you not the one thing to be?
24:49
Speaker 7: You know, he was there, and I think the reason
24:52
Speaker 7: he was sacked he was sacked because somebody else had
24:54
Speaker 7: more ambition.
24:55
Speaker 1: And that's bad.
24:56
Speaker 10: Well, no, it's not. I mean people are sacked and
24:59
Speaker 10: people more ambition going all the time, David, you know that.
25:02
Speaker 10: But when it's a principle of the Collectivist.
25:06
Speaker 7: Party, that's right, that's exactly right.
25:08
Speaker 10: The left wing is now dominant in this party, and
25:11
Speaker 10: that's a real worry for us, a real woe for us.
25:14
Speaker 10: Albanezi has control of the National Executive, which he chairs.
25:19
Speaker 10: He blindly says, oh preference has nothing to do with me,
25:22
Speaker 10: when it's everything to do with him. But we know
25:24
Speaker 10: he's a liar in the lodge. He hasn't changed, nothing's changed,
25:27
Speaker 10: and when we look at the way in which the
25:32
Speaker 10: policies that we're likely to have to deal with aregain
25:35
Speaker 10: to come our way, it is very damaging and worrying
25:38
Speaker 10: for Australa and that's where we ought to be putting
25:40
Speaker 10: our attention, like the tax on unrealized capital gains, which
25:45
Speaker 10: should have been front and center of the opposition campaign
25:48
Speaker 10: during the election.
25:49
Speaker 4: This is why the coalition they got to get themselves
25:51
Speaker 4: together pretty quickly because it's another three years of Anthony Arbereze,
25:55
Speaker 4: as you said, the liar in the lodge, So the
25:57
Speaker 4: change nothing, nothing has changed, unfortunately. David Elliot, Browl and Bishop.
26:00
Speaker 4: Good to have you both on. Thank you so much
26:02
Speaker 4: for joining me on the show this evening. Well for
26:04
Speaker 4: more now on leadership reaction from inside the coalition itself.
26:08
Speaker 4: I'm now joined by Senator Dave Sharma. Senator, it's good
26:11
Speaker 4: to catch up with you. Thanks so much for joining me. Well,
26:13
Speaker 4: you're happy with today's outcome. Is Susanly the right choice
26:16
Speaker 4: for the party.
26:18
Speaker 9: I think she's an excellent choice. She's got vast experience
26:21
Speaker 9: to sell a number of portfolios, has a.
26:24
Speaker 1: Huge amount of life experience.
26:26
Speaker 9: She knows the country well, she knows a members well,
26:30
Speaker 9: She's traveled extensively. She's got a strong intellect, she's got
26:34
Speaker 9: an intellectual curiosity, and she's very keen to united us
26:38
Speaker 9: to make us a disciplined, competitive force that is a
26:41
Speaker 9: credible opposition and a strong alternative government.
26:45
Speaker 3: Will she stay there for the whole three years? Yes,
26:49
Speaker 3: she will, and you're confident of that.
26:51
Speaker 9: I am confident of that. Look, I think you know,
26:55
Speaker 9: leadership balanced by their nature, you know their device, because
26:59
Speaker 9: people choose to back a different side. But I'm quite
27:03
Speaker 9: confident in all my conversations with my colleagues that the
27:06
Speaker 9: thing that we can agree most firmly on is we
27:09
Speaker 9: need to be you know, we need to be a
27:11
Speaker 9: stronger alternative to the labor government, and we need to
27:15
Speaker 9: have a more competitive offering to these shoining people next
27:17
Speaker 9: time around. And I think you know now that this
27:19
Speaker 9: the leadership has been decided, we will all get behind
27:22
Speaker 9: our new leaders sousainly, and I know she will do
27:25
Speaker 9: her up most to harness the talents of everyone in
27:28
Speaker 9: the party room to make sure that we are that
27:30
Speaker 9: competitive political force.
27:31
Speaker 3: But what does that competitive political force look like in
27:35
Speaker 3: your view? Is it bold policies?
27:38
Speaker 4: How are you going to get to that point where
27:41
Speaker 4: you go, yes, we have a team that actually has
27:43
Speaker 4: genuine chances of re election.
27:46
Speaker 9: Well, look, I don't have all the answers this evening,
27:48
Speaker 9: but it starts with acknowledging that the comprehensiveness of our
27:51
Speaker 9: loss and where we performed were just you know, both
27:56
Speaker 9: geographically and demographically. And why the messages and policies where
28:00
Speaker 9: we're putting forward we're not resonating with the Australian public.
28:04
Speaker 9: I mean, you know, traditionally, since MEN'SI has founded made
28:08
Speaker 9: a point of representing the forgotten people. We've had habits Batlands,
28:12
Speaker 9: we've had Scott Morrison's quiet Australians. You know, these are
28:15
Speaker 9: the people who live in the suburbs of our cities,
28:18
Speaker 9: who have a mortgage, who often have both partners at work,
28:21
Speaker 9: who have young children, who have been struggling with the
28:23
Speaker 9: cost of living, have been struggling with high energy prices,
28:27
Speaker 9: you know, who struggle with traffic on the roads, who
28:29
Speaker 9: struggle with the concept of their children being able to
28:31
Speaker 9: afford at home those that are sorts of voters. We
28:34
Speaker 9: need to be addressing their real life concerns and priorities,
28:38
Speaker 9: and I think, you know, we need to improve our
28:40
Speaker 9: policy offering to do that. That's going to take some time.
28:42
Speaker 9: I don't pretend that'll all be unveiled in the next
28:45
Speaker 9: week or two. We need to do some pretty deep reflection,
28:49
Speaker 9: review and internal discussion and consolidation. But I'm confident we
28:53
Speaker 9: can do it.
28:54
Speaker 4: One of those policies is, of course, on energy. It's
28:57
Speaker 4: a big one. Will you stick with nuclear?
29:02
Speaker 9: Well, if that's sort of a decision for men, As
29:05
Speaker 9: Susan said this morning, this morning or this afternoon just
29:08
Speaker 9: after the leadership, it's normal after a loss like this
29:12
Speaker 9: to review all of.
29:13
Speaker 1: Your policies, and I expect we'll be doing all that.
29:16
Speaker 9: I mean, what we will want to be putting forward
29:18
Speaker 9: is a credible alternative energy policies to label that will
29:22
Speaker 9: help make electricity affordable again, and power affordable, make sure
29:26
Speaker 9: our manufacturers who rely on energy as and input can
29:29
Speaker 9: be internationally competitive and that brings down emissions over time.
29:33
Speaker 9: But in a way that is working with the grain
29:35
Speaker 9: of technology and what is available and what's commercially competitive.
29:39
Speaker 4: I want to answer your Senate colleague. James McGraw wrote
29:41
Speaker 4: to Liberal members today saying that what the Liberal Party
29:44
Speaker 4: needs to focus on is it moving left, is it
29:46
Speaker 4: moving right? It's about how it does politics. How does
29:50
Speaker 4: it need to change how it does politics? In your view,
29:52
Speaker 4: I'm curious to get your answer.
29:54
Speaker 9: Well, I thought James made a thoughtful contribution, and I
29:57
Speaker 9: think it's too often these election post mortems can find
30:04
Speaker 9: themselves on one dimension only, which is where you position ideologically.
30:08
Speaker 9: I think our challenge is really to modernize, and that
30:11
Speaker 9: means staying true to our principles, saying true to our values,
30:14
Speaker 9: but making sure they are translated into policies that are
30:17
Speaker 9: important to their lives and priorities and pressure points at
30:20
Speaker 9: everyday Australians, and to make sure that we're a discipline
30:23
Speaker 9: and effective campaign fighting machine. I mean, James has a
30:28
Speaker 9: lot of experience in our partying machinery and the functioning
30:31
Speaker 9: of our state divisions, and I think it's clear that
30:33
Speaker 9: the competitiveness of how we run campaigns has diminished over
30:37
Speaker 9: the last few cycles, and we need to have a
30:40
Speaker 9: better organizational performance, and that's internal.
30:43
Speaker 1: Change and internal review.
30:44
Speaker 9: But that's a key part of being a successful political pay.
30:48
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, well, look the road's long ahead, but look
30:51
Speaker 3: fingers crossed.
30:52
Speaker 4: Dave Sharma, good to see you. Thanks very much for
30:54
Speaker 4: joining me on the show. This evening, well still to come.
30:56
Speaker 4: Does a liberal party need female quotas if it wants
30:58
Speaker 4: to be re elected?
30:59
Speaker 3: We'll have a fascinating debate coming up.
31:01
Speaker 4: But first, another agency warns our Triple A credit rating
31:04
Speaker 4: is at risk. Former Treasury Secretary David Pearl joins me
31:08
Speaker 4: to discuss what reckless labor spending may cost us.
31:14
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the program. To some business news.
31:17
Speaker 4: Now, the markets are cheering after the US and China
31:20
Speaker 4: agreed to wind back. There were talitory tariffs for at
31:22
Speaker 4: least ninety days. Donald Trump has also scaled back his
31:26
Speaker 4: comments on Beijing.
31:28
Speaker 10: European Union is in many ways nastier than China.
31:33
Speaker 4: Okay, joining me now to discuss this is Former Treasury
31:36
Speaker 4: Assistant Secretary David Pearl, David, good to see Thank you
31:39
Speaker 4: for joining me.
31:41
Speaker 3: Is a trade war really winding down? What's your take
31:45
Speaker 3: on it?
31:48
Speaker 13: Thanks for having me on. It's a pretty significant development.
31:51
Speaker 13: If we just go back a couple of months, we
31:53
Speaker 13: had Donald Trump announcing his Liberation Day tariffs against China
31:58
Speaker 13: and the rest of the world, and he's now completely
32:00
Speaker 13: climbed down from that. I think the agreement with the
32:04
Speaker 13: Chinese was it inevitable because leaving aside Donald Trump's retric
32:08
Speaker 13: about trade balances, the US and China are mutually dependent
32:13
Speaker 13: on each other. And to the extent that this agreement
32:17
Speaker 13: has forestalled and the possibility of a breakdown, it's.
32:24
Speaker 1: Fantastic news for Australia.
32:25
Speaker 13: That said, the uncertainty that we've seen will continue because
32:31
Speaker 13: Trump's approach to trade is messy and bordering on chaotic.
32:35
Speaker 13: I'm hoping that Trump, being a pragmatist, is stepping back
32:39
Speaker 13: from his protectionism and he'll focus from now on the
32:43
Speaker 13: more constructive, economically sensible parts of his program, tax reductions
32:48
Speaker 13: for American companies and individuals and also energy deregulation, and
32:53
Speaker 13: leaves protectionism, which is just corporate welfare to one side.
32:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's a good point.
32:59
Speaker 4: So they've got this ninety day pause, though, is it
33:02
Speaker 4: at all going to have an impact on our economy here?
33:08
Speaker 13: If there was a disorderly decoupling between the US and China,
33:12
Speaker 13: it would have made poor Keating's Banana a public moment
33:16
Speaker 13: in the nineteen eighties.
33:16
Speaker 1: A walk in the park.
33:17
Speaker 13: It would have been an existential event for Australia. The
33:22
Speaker 13: fact that that is now unlikely is positive news for
33:26
Speaker 13: this country. But as I said before, if you're renegotiating
33:31
Speaker 13: the terms of global international trade, it's going to be
33:34
Speaker 13: messy and uncertain for quite some time. But if the
33:38
Speaker 13: US and China can re establish their trade and financial relationships,
33:43
Speaker 13: that gives a solid baseline, if you like, for the
33:46
Speaker 13: Australian economy.
33:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, we'll be watching that one with a lot
33:50
Speaker 3: of interest.
33:50
Speaker 4: Now, look, labor has excessively spent over the last three
33:55
Speaker 4: years and it's now been calling to question with a
33:57
Speaker 4: second credit rating agency warning that our triple A credit
34:01
Speaker 4: rating could actually be on the line. Fitch Rating Sovereigns
34:04
Speaker 4: director Jeremy told Business Now it could actually be in
34:07
Speaker 4: jebety in the medium term.
34:09
Speaker 3: This is what he said.
34:11
Speaker 14: When we think about Australia's public finances, Australia compared to
34:15
Speaker 14: its Triple A peers.
34:17
Speaker 1: Is somewhat towards the weaker.
34:19
Speaker 14: And when we look at the level of the physical deficit,
34:23
Speaker 14: which we think about a general government deficit level including
34:27
Speaker 14: state and federal governments, that's running close to three percent
34:32
Speaker 14: this year, and the triple A median is more around
34:35
Speaker 14: one percent deficit level.
34:37
Speaker 4: David, look that there have been so many cash splashes
34:41
Speaker 4: by labor. This election plus the last three years, as
34:44
Speaker 4: I said, has seen record government spending. It's been out
34:48
Speaker 4: of control. How much of an impact is this having.
34:54
Speaker 1: It's certainly having an impact.
34:55
Speaker 13: It's attracted the attention of the credit ratings agencies, But
34:59
Speaker 13: the credit ratings agencies and their individual ratings for economies
35:03
Speaker 13: are quite superficial.
35:05
Speaker 1: If Fitch and.
35:06
Speaker 13: Moody's opened up the books and looked more closely, they'd
35:10
Speaker 13: see that we have three fiscal time bombs. One our
35:13
Speaker 13: addiction to entitlement spending including the ndis, which our official
35:18
Speaker 13: forecasts assume will grow at only eight percent of year
35:21
Speaker 13: instead of fourteen percent. We also assume a further decade
35:25
Speaker 13: of bracket creep paid by a shrinking proportion of the
35:28
Speaker 13: working age population. We assume no further increase in defense spending,
35:33
Speaker 13: and our national productivity performance to be far better than
35:37
Speaker 13: it has been in the last decade. So if you
35:39
Speaker 13: actually unpack each of those assumptions, our medium term fiscal
35:44
Speaker 13: outlook is very poor and triple A rating is actually
35:50
Speaker 13: a positive gloss.
35:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, look it's not good news, but look I think
35:55
Speaker 4: hardly surprising given the cash splashes. I mean not just federally,
35:58
Speaker 4: but we also saw it in state budget. It was
36:01
Speaker 4: completely out of control. Before we let you go, David,
36:04
Speaker 4: I want to get your thoughts on Susan Lee becoming
36:06
Speaker 4: opposition leader. I mean, this could be in deed a
36:08
Speaker 4: time for renewal for the party. But what do they
36:11
Speaker 4: need to focus on, and especially by way of economic policy,
36:14
Speaker 4: because I mean the economy's meant to be a key
36:17
Speaker 4: platform for the Conservatives.
36:19
Speaker 3: We haven't seen it in recent years. But what do
36:21
Speaker 3: they need to do, do you think?
36:23
Speaker 13: Well, firstly, tear up Peter Dutton's economic playbook from the
36:27
Speaker 13: last election, which would have raised income taxes, matched labor's
36:32
Speaker 13: cash splash dollar for dollar, and done nothing about our
36:35
Speaker 13: addiction to spending.
36:36
Speaker 1: So put that one to side. That to one side.
36:39
Speaker 13: I just emphasized three points for the new leadership team. One,
36:43
Speaker 13: don't forget that tax is the natural territory for liberal
36:48
Speaker 13: or conservative political movements. Not only does it make sense economically,
36:54
Speaker 13: we shouldn't forget that both the Whole Keeping and the
36:57
Speaker 13: Howard government placed tax form and in particular the reduction
37:02
Speaker 13: of high income tax burdens, at the center of their
37:05
Speaker 13: growth agendas. So let's not forget that. I think the
37:08
Speaker 13: opposition to do that. But tax is also a political issue.
37:12
Speaker 13: Every Australian or most Australians pay tax. Very few Australians
37:16
Speaker 13: think they should pay more. Yet if we have a
37:18
Speaker 13: decade of bracket creep, the average tax rate paid by
37:21
Speaker 13: Australians will rise by fifteen percent. So I think the
37:26
Speaker 13: opposition should say bracket creep will not be tolerated anymore,
37:30
Speaker 13: just as we don't tolerate not indexing pensions. It's a
37:33
Speaker 13: moral issue, not just an economic issue.
37:35
Speaker 1: The other point I'd make is fairness.
37:37
Speaker 13: Labour's definition of fairness is let's allocate favors and subsidies
37:43
Speaker 13: to identity groups based on some assumed moral superiority. The
37:48
Speaker 13: liberals should emphasize a quality of opportunity in meritocracy. Not
37:52
Speaker 13: only are they liberal and good conservative values, they are
37:54
Speaker 13: Australian values, and I think they've lost sight of that.
37:57
Speaker 13: And that's a very clear way to differentiate themselves from
38:00
Speaker 13: their opponents.
38:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
38:02
Speaker 4: I think that's a really fair point. It's going to
38:03
Speaker 4: be an interesting three years ahead. David Pearl, nice to see,
38:06
Speaker 4: Thanks so much for joining me this evening. Well don't
38:08
Speaker 4: go anywhere. Is the Misinformation Bill coming back? I'll talk
38:11
Speaker 4: to John Story from the Institute of Public Affairs about
38:14
Speaker 4: what Michelle.
38:14
Speaker 3: Rowland's promotion means.
38:16
Speaker 4: First, the incredible reunion of the last American hostage held
38:20
Speaker 4: by Hamas with his family. Christy McSweeney and Lisa Goddard
38:22
Speaker 4: are coming up after the break.
38:27
Speaker 3: Welcome back.
38:28
Speaker 4: Let's jump straight back into it with my panel, PR
38:30
Speaker 4: Council Managing Director Christy McSweeney and a Dooni medias. Lisa Goddard,
38:34
Speaker 4: Hi to both of you. Thank you so much for
38:36
Speaker 4: joining me on the show. Look, we need to start
38:38
Speaker 4: with the Coalition's leadership results. Of course, Susan Lee elected
38:41
Speaker 4: Liberal leader today.
38:42
Speaker 3: Christy will start with you.
38:44
Speaker 15: What's your reaction. Is she the right choice to lead
38:46
Speaker 15: the party? I think she's a sensible choice. I think
38:52
Speaker 15: it's a centrist choice. I think it is very symbolic
38:56
Speaker 15: that the Coalition has elected its first female leader. Is
39:00
Speaker 15: it a bit of a glass cliff situation?
39:02
Speaker 3: Look?
39:03
Speaker 15: Probably, But I don't know if you've been into the
39:06
Speaker 15: Liberal party room and you are confronted with a photo
39:12
Speaker 15: wall of men, and it will be great that the
39:17
Speaker 15: coalition can finally have a woman on that wall. And
39:20
Speaker 15: of course it has been the case at a state level.
39:23
Speaker 15: We've had leaders and Senate leaders as well, and it's
39:27
Speaker 15: been amazing. So it's not a be all and end all,
39:31
Speaker 15: but that is one good point in terms of is
39:34
Speaker 15: it a unifying decision. We'll have to wait and see
39:37
Speaker 15: how long the factions give her before that starts, but
39:41
Speaker 15: I think she did very well today in the press conference.
39:44
Speaker 3: I was quite impressed. We'll see, We'll certainly see, Lisa,
39:47
Speaker 3: what's your take on it. Look, I think she has
39:52
Speaker 3: work to do.
39:52
Speaker 12: She's been in Parliament now for more than twenty years
39:54
Speaker 12: and I did a strawman pole around the office today
39:57
Speaker 12: and some people down in the foyer they didn't know
39:59
Speaker 12: who she was. And the other big point was they
40:01
Speaker 12: didn't know how to pronounce her last name. So looking
40:03
Speaker 12: at someone who look, I think it's great that they've
40:05
Speaker 12: put a woman in that position. I don't like the
40:08
Speaker 12: fact that every headline is screaming it's the first female
40:10
Speaker 12: because I do think it comes down to merit. But look,
40:13
Speaker 12: she's there. I think what we need to judge her
40:14
Speaker 12: on is not her gender, but what she can actually
40:16
Speaker 12: do about. As Christy said, unifying the party and having
40:19
Speaker 12: some really tough conversations about what policy are they going
40:22
Speaker 12: to come forward with, because today there were no real
40:24
Speaker 12: answers on that.
40:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's exactly what I said as well in
40:27
Speaker 3: my editorial. There were no clear answers. And I agree.
40:30
Speaker 3: You know, Lisa, I don't care what the gender of
40:33
Speaker 3: a person is in that high level position.
40:35
Speaker 4: I don't care as long as they can do the job,
40:37
Speaker 4: and as long as they got there through merit, I
40:39
Speaker 4: couldn't care less whether they're male or female.
40:41
Speaker 3: I totally agree.
40:42
Speaker 4: Now, look, let's talk about gender quotas, because Christy, you
40:44
Speaker 4: had an interesting article in the AFI yesterday you said,
40:48
Speaker 4: to win them, I suggest we embrace women who could
40:51
Speaker 4: win us those seats and understand that we need to
40:53
Speaker 4: help them gain the experience and the networks in the
40:55
Speaker 4: party to be visible, recognized and chosen. If that means
40:59
Speaker 4: given them a man and dated female position to win
41:01
Speaker 4: an election, so be it. Christy, are you advocating for
41:05
Speaker 4: gender quotas? Do you think that that is the way
41:08
Speaker 4: forward for the Liberal Party and why?
41:12
Speaker 15: Well, one, I think it's time something happened. I have
41:16
Speaker 15: sat in pre selections for over twenty five years. The
41:19
Speaker 15: only women who get pre selected are ones that have
41:22
Speaker 15: the time to lean in to undertake all the impossible
41:27
Speaker 15: tasks that gets you to the front of the queue
41:29
Speaker 15: where you can tick off the list of and it's
41:32
Speaker 15: going to state counsel an admin committee all day on
41:34
Speaker 15: a Saturday, it's going to three meetings a week, it's
41:37
Speaker 15: going to various other things. There is a reality that
41:40
Speaker 15: women raising children and holding down a career aren't able
41:44
Speaker 15: to do those things. So the women that get pre selected,
41:47
Speaker 15: and I'm not saying women don't, are women that are
41:50
Speaker 15: able to undertake those tasks that allow them to be
41:54
Speaker 15: visible and then considered worthy enough for people who make
41:58
Speaker 15: this selection because they have completed that checklist. There is
42:02
Speaker 15: just a reality that the women that we want to represent,
42:05
Speaker 15: us women of working age, who are rising families like
42:09
Speaker 15: the Labor Party, are not able to get through in
42:12
Speaker 15: that selection structure. It's not about merit, it's about addressing
42:16
Speaker 15: that selection.
42:17
Speaker 3: It is about structure.
42:18
Speaker 15: I'm recognizing recognizing that it isn't the right one.
42:22
Speaker 3: Merit is a wonderful blanket argument to have.
42:25
Speaker 15: I think it's you have to understand that, understand the
42:30
Speaker 15: new wants of the selection structure, that the fact is
42:34
Speaker 15: women in our party aren't working and raising families like.
42:38
Speaker 3: They are in the Labor Party. I take a point
42:40
Speaker 3: we have to look at that.
42:42
Speaker 4: Understand why I take your point on that, Christie, But
42:45
Speaker 4: as a woman, I find it highly offensive that a
42:47
Speaker 4: woman should get a role not based on a merit,
42:49
Speaker 4: not based on how good she is, not based on
42:51
Speaker 4: how hard she's worked, but the fact that she is
42:53
Speaker 4: a woman.
42:54
Speaker 3: I just find that so offensive in this day and age.
42:56
Speaker 3: And if that's the case.
42:57
Speaker 15: If that's not, that's choose people. If that's how you
43:01
Speaker 15: may as well don't choose people.
43:04
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sorry, I just want to move on because we
43:10
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of time.
43:11
Speaker 4: And I do take your point, Christy, and I get
43:12
Speaker 4: what you're saying, But Lisa, what are your thoughts on this?
43:17
Speaker 12: Christy is absolutely right when you sit in those branch meetings,
43:20
Speaker 12: it is about winning people over it and our goodness
43:22
Speaker 12: knows how many five dollars raffle tickets you have to
43:24
Speaker 12: buy while you attend those branches. Christy will tell you
43:26
Speaker 12: about that. But look, there are two things here. One
43:29
Speaker 12: it has to be on merit. You have to rise
43:31
Speaker 12: to the top based on your experience, based on your knowledge,
43:33
Speaker 12: based on the fact that you understand your community and
43:35
Speaker 12: that you can give something back to your community and
43:37
Speaker 12: actually changes country for the best. However, when it comes
43:40
Speaker 12: to pre selection, when it comes to looking at what
43:43
Speaker 12: candidate are you going to put forward A and you
43:45
Speaker 12: did a study, predominantly those women get the tough seats.
43:48
Speaker 12: We don't always get the winnable easy seats. You put
43:51
Speaker 12: into a position where it's going to be a tough fight.
43:54
Speaker 12: You're looking at having to ether, put your business on hold,
43:56
Speaker 12: stand down from your job, so financially, how do you
43:58
Speaker 12: then manage your life. I have to put yourself forward
44:01
Speaker 12: for pre selection and then go out there in campaign.
44:03
Speaker 12: So it is a really tough one you have to balance. Yes,
44:06
Speaker 12: we want the best candidates on merit.
44:07
Speaker 3: Fullies back that.
44:09
Speaker 12: However, they need to look at the party structure and
44:11
Speaker 12: think about how do we pre select women who are
44:13
Speaker 12: good on merit and put them into seats.
44:15
Speaker 3: That are winnable.
44:16
Speaker 12: If we truly want women in the Parliament and the
44:18
Speaker 12: greater numbers. It's not about quotas, it's about putting them
44:21
Speaker 12: into the seats.
44:22
Speaker 10: That are winnable.
44:22
Speaker 4: I agree, and it all does come down to selection.
44:25
Speaker 4: I do agree with that, and I think that there
44:26
Speaker 4: will be a real rethink come the next election. And
44:28
Speaker 4: there were a lot of really good female candidates out there.
44:31
Speaker 4: I don't think that they were given the opportunity to
44:34
Speaker 4: really shine throughout this campaign, and that is the sad part.
44:37
Speaker 3: But we'll see what happens. We have run out of time.
44:40
Speaker 4: Christy mcsweety and Lisa God we love a good debate.
44:42
Speaker 4: I like having you both on. Thank you very much
44:44
Speaker 4: for joing to be on the show.
44:46
Speaker 11: We do, we do.
44:47
Speaker 3: We absolutely that we do get along. Really stay with us.
44:50
Speaker 3: Still to come.
44:50
Speaker 4: We thought the Misinformation Bill was dead, but its strongest
44:53
Speaker 4: advocate is now the Attorney General. Is the fight for
44:56
Speaker 4: free speech back on? We'll find out next Welcome back. Well,
45:02
Speaker 4: we've rightly been focused on Labour's factional war over the
45:05
Speaker 4: new ministerial roles, but one controversial appointment needs more focus
45:10
Speaker 4: and that's Michelle Roland talking taking on the role of
45:13
Speaker 4: Attorney General from Mark Dreyfus. Now you recall this is
45:16
Speaker 4: the same person that was Labour's face for the Misinformation Bill,
45:20
Speaker 4: and we know how fired up Labor is about.
45:23
Speaker 9: Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation, the misinformation, the misinformation which is there
45:29
Speaker 9: so misinformation?
45:31
Speaker 1: Yes?
45:31
Speaker 3: So do we really think one attempt to get it
45:33
Speaker 3: through Parliament is the end of it?
45:36
Speaker 4: I don't, especially with then you found majority in the
45:38
Speaker 4: lower House and the Greens, who of course supported the bill,
45:41
Speaker 4: hold the.
45:42
Speaker 3: Balance of power in the Senate.
45:43
Speaker 4: Joining me now is John's story from the Institute of
45:46
Speaker 4: Public Affairs, an organization that did so much to highlight
45:49
Speaker 4: the dangers of that bill when Labour tried to pass it.
45:52
Speaker 4: Welcome to the show, Thanks for joining me. How conconed
45:55
Speaker 4: are you that it could be making a comeback?
46:00
Speaker 6: I think a lot of people are concerned that the
46:02
Speaker 6: thumping electoral victory that Labor had a week and a
46:05
Speaker 6: half ago will enable them to push forward a far
46:08
Speaker 6: more radical agenda than they did in.
46:10
Speaker 1: Their first term.
46:11
Speaker 6: And there's no doubt that if Labor could, they would
46:14
Speaker 6: implement far more radical internet censorship laws than Australia currently has.
46:21
Speaker 6: Now there's every sign now that they have that large majority,
46:26
Speaker 6: they will do that. What are those signs? Well, the
46:28
Speaker 6: first one was Labor never repudiated the misinformation and disinformation
46:33
Speaker 6: built when it failed to pass the Senate last year.
46:36
Speaker 6: Michelle rowl and the Communications Minister at the time, said
46:40
Speaker 6: how important it was to protect democracy from misinformation and
46:43
Speaker 6: disinformation and that they are a threat to national security. However,
46:47
Speaker 6: we don't have the numbers in the Senate. That's hardly
46:50
Speaker 6: a repudiation. That's hardly saying look, we've listened to the
46:53
Speaker 6: concerns about free speech and we're ditching this policy. It
46:56
Speaker 6: suggests if we get another chance or do it again.
47:00
Speaker 6: The other sign is the promotion of Michelle Rowland to
47:02
Speaker 6: Attorney General. Her signature policy as Communications Minister was the
47:07
Speaker 6: failed attempt to introduce misinformation laws, and for that failure
47:12
Speaker 6: she's been promoted. So these are all signs that need
47:16
Speaker 6: to be put to the Prime Minister. Do you intend
47:19
Speaker 6: to introduce these laws into Parliament again?
47:23
Speaker 3: I completely agree. Look, I think it is a real
47:25
Speaker 3: worry overall.
47:27
Speaker 4: What sort of free speech battles do you see now
47:30
Speaker 4: on the horizon we spoke about misinformation, Labor has been
47:34
Speaker 4: dipping into this issue. How do you see this playing out.
47:40
Speaker 6: Well, we've got some important court cases at the moment
47:43
Speaker 6: dealing with the powers of the E Safety Commissioner. One
47:48
Speaker 6: thing I think Anthony Albanezi may have learned from his
47:52
Speaker 6: first term where he's election night he said, oh, we're
47:57
Speaker 6: going to introduce this voice, and it was this radical
47:59
Speaker 6: propos I think he might be a little more subtle
48:02
Speaker 6: this time. It may be that they don't introduce a
48:05
Speaker 6: misinformation bill by just reintroducing the old bill. What it
48:11
Speaker 6: could be is that enhancing the powers of the E
48:14
Speaker 6: Safety Commissioner to effectively give her powers over misinformation. There's
48:20
Speaker 6: currently a review of the Online Safety Act, and some
48:23
Speaker 6: of the proposals in that review sound awfully like what
48:28
Speaker 6: was proposed under the Misinformation Bill.
48:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's almost by stealth, I would say, John Story,
48:34
Speaker 4: good to catch up. Thank you so much for joining
48:35
Speaker 4: me on the show this evening. And that's all we've
48:37
Speaker 4: got time for this evening.
48:39
Speaker 3: Thank you for your time, Sharry Marks, and we'll be
48:40
Speaker 3: back on deck tomorrow. Stay tuned. Paul Murray is next